Except many of the prisoners (not only of those in Guantanamo) were kidnapped by the CIA around the world during *illegal* operations.
There is a trial going in italy because an egyptian citizen (Abu Omar, an imam in italy) has been kidnapped and brought to a secret prison in egypt with a so-called "rendition flight". He was tortured on behalf of the usa's administration.
There are a number of this kind of "prisons" around the world, in coutries friendly to the usa, and you can bet they do not respect human rights there.
Err... like most of the recent top-hits, for example? (just reporting heard impressions: I do not buy games nowadays... I have free adventures in ScummVM and no time to play them either)
At the moment it is somewhat limited (alerts are sent only for the "primary" calendar, for example), but they already plan of supporting all of them in a short time.
A lot of shops here in italy will happily sell you OEM windows cds without any hardware parts. Just like stores sell the educational version without really checking if you or one of your relatives is a student or teacher.
Two things: the OP talked about "trivially easy". You talk about "proper configuration". In my experience the two things do not go together.
About re-joining: you say that. And I know that. In theory. In practice we experienced in the past cases of impossible re-join. In that case you should re-generate the ID of the machine, and lose all the security and permission settings.
Trivially easy? Do you manage many Active Directory servers?
The ones I know about (in a EU wide bank) are a mess, and require an entire team of people just to let them run. And even so it is very simple to screw them up.
Not counting the fact that AD is horridly delicate: un-join a machine from the domain for long enough, and you are done.
AD is NOT easy. Clicking on "Share this folder" might look so, but managing AD is not.
That you and I in reality agree on most things (with the exception that you like java and I don't):-)
I was just a wee bit too harsh in the first message and we got a bit carried away (oh, and don't mix up memes: it's "BSD is dead", and "Java is slow"!).
Anyway, I was just ranting, basing myself on a long record of bad experiences.
You are comparing a web app with a webstart application? In case you did not notice the thread was on applets. Webstart does not seem like an applet at all, does it?
If I have to install something, it will bloody well be Psi or Gaim, then!
You give a mathematical/logical proof that fast java apps exist. I'm fine with that.
I say that the simple fact that you have to struggle to find 2-3 apps worth mentioning gives me practical proof that they are RARE, thus proving my point.
Besides, directx or opengl acceleration means close to nothing to the percieved speed of an application. If your app does OpenGL visualization then good. But 99% of the apps dont.
On the subject of SWING looks: if I understand correctly only Java5 apps _correctly coded_ obey to the SWING LAFs, the gtk LAF is still very buggy, and the others are just skins. A skin does not give you look an feel. Just look.
First things first: java apps on windows may look almost native, but most of the time they do not feel so. Heavy, with custom open/save/print dialogs, and so on. But maybe it's only bad luck on my part.
To say that Java apps on Linux 'never look like anything they are trying to emulate' is not only wrong, it is factually incorrect, as the most popular Java app on Linux - Eclipse does not emulate anything! It uses standard GUI libraries like Motif and GTK.
I notice you bypassed the remark on SWT. SWT is not java. SWT is native GTK. And is slow and heavy. And I don't think you can use it in applet, do you?
So applets can use AWT (horrendously limited) or Swing (slow on windows and osx, slow and butt-ugly on linux)... that's not really "wow", is it?
Why should developers stop using applets (which can provide very fast browser-based GUIs for many purposes) stop using applets just because you have never 'stumbled' on a useful Java applet?
Oh, I'm not trying to stop anyone. This thread originated from a guy asking "why do people dislike applets?". I provided some reasons.
I really don't think that nobody shares this opinions, since from other discussions it always seem like the only ones that use Java based gui apps (client, not applet) are java programmers, and I don't see many praises about "oh-so-great" java-applet based apps 'round. The only widely deployed client java gui apps are either for java programmers or in SWT, or both (e.g. NetBeans, Eclipse, Azureus).
Your example of chemical visualization applet sounds neat, for example, in its niche of application. I'm not implying that it's not at all _possible_ do make a fast and useful applet. It's just not done:-)
I reiterate: can you point me to 2-3 applets available on the web that you consider valuable, useful and maybe even cool?
Some times ago I found a jabber client applet: cool! Yeah, and slow, and cumbersome.
On my workstation a VM starts in less than a second and uses only a fraction of memory by default. I fail to see how this can 'bring down' a machine.
On my workstation (P4 with 512MB RAM) opening a page with applets results in several seconds of system slowdown (not mentioning browser freeze). If you ONLY use a browser and nothing else your figures may be sensible. If the machine is already overworked by a score of apps running concurrently, that's different.
Applets were slow about 7-8 years ago. Now there are high-performance JIT and Hotspot VMs.
You seem to live in a dreamworld. I have yet to se a fast applet, let alone a useful one.
I don't find googlemaps fast! An applet that caches data locally can be pretty much as fast as you like.
Yeah, and eating tons of RAM in the process, thank you. Besides, where are the real life implementations?
This is a strange comment, as Java GUIs are totally customisable and 'skinnable' by developers. So, you are declaring that every aspect of several hundred different GUIs suck! Many Applets use the native GUI of the OS, so you are also saying that Windows, MacOS/X, KDE, GNOME etc. also suck!
This seems to confirm that you are either a java zealot, a troll, or live in the aforementioned dreamworld. Java GUIs on windows are ugly but manageable. Java GUIs on linux look nothing like anything they are trying to emulate. And note that I also mentioned feel. Java apps NEVER feel like native ones (or maybe you are implying that all java developers are getting it wrong... which could well be:-) )
The only exception seems to be SWT based apps, but that's cheating: SWT uses gtk on linux.
Java is pre-installed on more than half of all new PCs. If not, it is a once-only install that does not take that long on broadband...
Dunno where you live. Where I live, java is almost NEVER preinstalled. Broadband is not really broadly deployed, and a lot of users could well be incapable of installing a JVM.
I'm not really trying to flame you or java or whatever... the fact is simply that I never stumbled on a useful java applet EVER. Quite the opposite: I've seen to many horrible and completely useless applets in these years. Just let java live on the server side (if anywhere), and put applets to rest, please. (in the past I've seen java buttons for navigating a site, made in java for no other purpose than a mousover effect. How lame is that?)
If you think that 370$ for a parallel import device with keys and software in japanese (without any support watsoever, me being outside of the USA) is a reasonable price... you have more money to burn than me:-)
Except, in less than a month someone (Jon, maybe) will release a "ebook cleaner" that removes the expiration date and versions converted to different formats will show up on P2P networks in no time.
What I want is an ebook reader with a reasonable price that accepts files in a documented format. Then I'll just drop half the Gnutenberg project in it:-)
Sure, the risks are minimal, but virii do occur on those platforms!
No, they dont.
Name 3 widespread in the wild viruses (no, virii is not a word) running on Linux, *BSD or OSX platforms.
You can't, because there never was even one.
If you do a search on the virus databases of antivirus companies they normally have NO signatures for *nix viruses. And when they do, I invite you to read the notes: they are all "proof of concept" lab viruses, and they never infected anything.
A file is created WITHOUT execution permissions, on *nix platforms. How is the virus going to execute and spread, tell me...
Slashdot Mirror
Except many of the prisoners (not only of those in Guantanamo) were kidnapped by the CIA around the world during *illegal* operations.
There is a trial going in italy because an egyptian citizen (Abu Omar, an imam in italy) has been kidnapped and brought to a secret prison in egypt with a so-called "rendition flight". He was tortured on behalf of the usa's administration.
There are a number of this kind of "prisons" around the world, in coutries friendly to the usa, and you can bet they do not respect human rights there.
Err... like most of the recent top-hits, for example?
(just reporting heard impressions: I do not buy games nowadays... I have free adventures in ScummVM and no time to play them either)
Yes they are
No, the are not. Not in Italy, and not in a lof of other countries.
Plus, you can get alerts about events in gmail, a daily "Agenda" email with a summary of the day, invite people to events with mail, and so on.
Just read the help, or take the tour, and see for yourself.
http://www.google.com/support/calendar
At the moment it is somewhat limited (alerts are sent only for the "primary" calendar, for example), but they already plan of supporting all of them in a short time.
And... well... last time I checked, WINE passed the Windows Genuine Advantage test as a "genuine windows install".
*chuckles*
A lot of shops here in italy will happily sell you OEM windows cds without any hardware parts. Just like stores sell the educational version without really checking if you or one of your relatives is a student or teacher.
Are the shops in the USA really so strict?
Two things: the OP talked about "trivially easy". You talk about "proper configuration". In my experience the two things do not go together.
About re-joining: you say that. And I know that. In theory.
In practice we experienced in the past cases of impossible re-join. In that case you should re-generate the ID of the machine, and lose all the security and permission settings.
Trivially easy?
Do you manage many Active Directory servers?
The ones I know about (in a EU wide bank) are a mess, and require an entire team of people just to let them run. And even so it is very simple to screw them up.
Not counting the fact that AD is horridly delicate: un-join a machine from the domain for long enough, and you are done.
AD is NOT easy. Clicking on "Share this folder" might look so, but managing AD is not.
Actually, windows copied in 2000 what was available in other environments for many years. AD is the bastard son of ldap+kerberos+smb.
What took years is reverse-engineering all the weird quirks MS introduced in the previously standard systems.
Besides, Samba can do a lot nifty things AD can't, so who's behind?
NO, provided that your vendor does not dumbly release drivers for the 32bit versions of windows only.
64bit windows drivers WILL work with ndiswrapper, afaik.
You know what's really funny?
:-)
/me ducks ;-)
That you and I in reality agree on most things (with the exception that you like java and I don't)
I was just a wee bit too harsh in the first message and we got a bit carried away (oh, and don't mix up memes: it's "BSD is dead", and "Java is slow"!).
Anyway, I was just ranting, basing myself on a long record of bad experiences.
Oh, and besides... java sucks!
See the object of this thread? It's "java applets".
;-P
Why do you keep listing full fledged applications?
I assume you share my opinion on semi useless and ugly applets, then
You are comparing a web app with a webstart application?
In case you did not notice the thread was on applets. Webstart does not seem like an applet at all, does it?
If I have to install something, it will bloody well be Psi or Gaim, then!
You give a mathematical/logical proof that fast java apps exist. I'm fine with that.
I say that the simple fact that you have to struggle to find 2-3 apps worth mentioning gives me practical proof that they are RARE, thus proving my point.
Besides, directx or opengl acceleration means close to nothing to the percieved speed of an application. If your app does OpenGL visualization then good. But 99% of the apps dont.
On the subject of SWING looks: if I understand correctly only Java5 apps _correctly coded_ obey to the SWING LAFs, the gtk LAF is still very buggy, and the others are just skins. A skin does not give you look an feel. Just look.
First things first: java apps on windows may look almost native, but most of the time they do not feel so. Heavy, with custom open/save/print dialogs, and so on. But maybe it's only bad luck on my part.
:-)
To say that Java apps on Linux 'never look like anything they are trying to emulate' is not only wrong, it is factually incorrect, as the most popular Java app on Linux - Eclipse does not emulate anything! It uses standard GUI libraries like Motif and GTK.
I notice you bypassed the remark on SWT. SWT is not java. SWT is native GTK. And is slow and heavy. And I don't think you can use it in applet, do you?
So applets can use AWT (horrendously limited) or Swing (slow on windows and osx, slow and butt-ugly on linux)... that's not really "wow", is it?
Why should developers stop using applets (which can provide very fast browser-based GUIs for many purposes) stop using applets just because you have never 'stumbled' on a useful Java applet?
Oh, I'm not trying to stop anyone.
This thread originated from a guy asking "why do people dislike applets?". I provided some reasons.
I really don't think that nobody shares this opinions, since from other discussions it always seem like the only ones that use Java based gui apps (client, not applet) are java programmers, and I don't see many praises about "oh-so-great" java-applet based apps 'round.
The only widely deployed client java gui apps are either for java programmers or in SWT, or both (e.g. NetBeans, Eclipse, Azureus).
Your example of chemical visualization applet sounds neat, for example, in its niche of application. I'm not implying that it's not at all _possible_ do make a fast and useful applet. It's just not done
I reiterate: can you point me to 2-3 applets available on the web that you consider valuable, useful and maybe even cool?
Some times ago I found a jabber client applet: cool!
Yeah, and slow, and cumbersome.
Compare with
http://jwchat.org/
Browser based AJAX jabber client. It works, it's fast, and light. I'd never consider the possibility to use the applets again.
On my workstation a VM starts in less than a second and uses only a fraction of memory by default. I fail to see how this can 'bring down' a machine.
:-) )
On my workstation (P4 with 512MB RAM) opening a page with applets results in several seconds of system slowdown (not mentioning browser freeze). If you ONLY use a browser and nothing else your figures may be sensible. If the machine is already overworked by a score of apps running concurrently, that's different.
Applets were slow about 7-8 years ago. Now there are high-performance JIT and Hotspot VMs.
You seem to live in a dreamworld. I have yet to se a fast applet, let alone a useful one.
I don't find googlemaps fast! An applet that caches data locally can be pretty much as fast as you like.
Yeah, and eating tons of RAM in the process, thank you. Besides, where are the real life implementations?
This is a strange comment, as Java GUIs are totally customisable and 'skinnable' by developers. So, you are declaring that every aspect of several hundred different GUIs suck! Many Applets use the native GUI of the OS, so you are also saying that Windows, MacOS/X, KDE, GNOME etc. also suck!
This seems to confirm that you are either a java zealot, a troll, or live in the aforementioned dreamworld. Java GUIs on windows are ugly but manageable. Java GUIs on linux look nothing like anything they are trying to emulate. And note that I also mentioned feel. Java apps NEVER feel like native ones (or maybe you are implying that all java developers are getting it wrong... which could well be
The only exception seems to be SWT based apps, but that's cheating: SWT uses gtk on linux.
Java is pre-installed on more than half of all new PCs. If not, it is a once-only install that does not take that long on broadband...
Dunno where you live. Where I live, java is almost NEVER preinstalled. Broadband is not really broadly deployed, and a lot of users could well be incapable of installing a JVM.
I'm not really trying to flame you or java or whatever...
the fact is simply that I never stumbled on a useful java applet EVER. Quite the opposite: I've seen to many horrible and completely useless applets in these years. Just let java live on the server side (if anywhere), and put applets to rest, please.
(in the past I've seen java buttons for navigating a site, made in java for no other purpose than a mousover effect. How lame is that?)
For one the fact that the starting VM can bring down to a halt even a semi-fast machine.
:-)
Or the fact that applets are SLOW, whereas (for example) gmail and googlemaps are FAST.
Or maybe it's that java guis just plain suck in pretty much every aspect (look, feel, functionality, ergonomy).
Oh, and the fact that java is not installed on machines anymore (by default), whereas a browser is (even if maybe a louse one as IE6).
Dunno, choose one
If you think that 370$ for a parallel import device with keys and software in japanese (without any support watsoever, me being outside of the USA) is a reasonable price... you have more money to burn than me :-)
Except, in less than a month someone (Jon, maybe) will release a "ebook cleaner" that removes the expiration date and versions converted to different formats will show up on P2P networks in no time.
:-)
What I want is an ebook reader with a reasonable price that accepts files in a documented format. Then I'll just drop half the Gnutenberg project in it
This is my last reply, 'cause you are obviously trolling and/or not listening.
Those are NOT viruses. And an antivirus would not protect you from them.
Uh.. what part of "those are not viruses" don't you understand?
An antivirus would give you 0 protection from a worm, vulnerability or rootkit.
This article is about antivirus. And I reiterate, name 3.
Sure, the risks are minimal, but virii do occur on those platforms!
No, they dont.
Name 3 widespread in the wild viruses (no, virii is not a word) running on Linux, *BSD or OSX platforms.
You can't, because there never was even one.
If you do a search on the virus databases of antivirus companies they normally have NO signatures for *nix viruses. And when they do, I invite you to read the notes: they are all "proof of concept" lab viruses, and they never infected anything.
A file is created WITHOUT execution permissions, on *nix platforms. How is the virus going to execute and spread, tell me...
And it's been like that from the 2.0 (or 2.2) days, also.
Not exactly: http://www.google.com/talk/
:-)
They HAVE a client, even if in beta, and it integrates gMail, docks to the google desktop search, and does voice talk.
Sure, you can use any jabber client for the chat part. Fortunately google seems to love open standards.
Hey! A corporation that's not ugly, faceless, and apparently evil... now that's weird!