I wouldn't say they're garbage just no methodology for pointing out the obvious. MS Office 2k spanks OO.org on Windows on every machine I've tried it on - on both speed and memory.
Besides which, if there are that many vairables to OO running "well" then at least you could say MS office is consistent.
It doesn't really matter to me since I'll be using OO anyway. Besides which now that the open source world (Koffice, etc) have also pleged to support the OASIS format, we should be able to pick and choose our word processors in a few years without worrying about compatability. Open office isn't our last hope, it's our foot in the door.
MS may have understood that they need a powerful shell for their system, but once again they seem to have missed the point. Looking over all of this I saw this re-occurring theme that it looks like 'irb' (interactive ruby interpreter). MS hasn't really given us a shell, they've worked up an interactive programming language. Along with that they've essentially increased the complexity about 5 times.
If you look at a unix shell like bash it's extremely simple. The ammount of things that bash itself can do isn't all that much. People like to cite overly complicated shell scripts as the reason bash is bad, but the simple fact is that bash isn't really intended to do everything, and if it's too complex for your sell you are supposed to do it in a programming langauge. The flip side is that no one really needs to be crusing around their filesystem inside of a programming language; it's the wrong tool for the job.
So what I see is MS gave us an overly complicated shell that is basically a new programming language. It will lack the flexibility that has allowed the Unix shell to be so powerful after 30 years, and it will probably have all sorts of backwards compatibility issues by the next generation.
It is and it actually makes some sense. See you have a couple different models. Google's make cool stuff yourself. Yahoo's (and many other companies) aquire vaguely related stuff and run it into the ground, and ebay's suck in things near it.
In the world of Internet based business, companies are extremely flakey, and of the 4-5 internet cornerstones you can name off the top of your head, ebay is one. When ebay depends so heavily on paypal, why leave it up to chance that they are going to screw it up and damage your company? At least the companies aquired by ebay are directly related to their business, as apposed to Yahoo aquiring geocities for example.
People can say what they like about SCO, but at least they actually had a product for YEARS. SCOs business model becomming lawsuits is more a symptom than an overall "plot" to do this from the beginning. SCO is going to go bankrupt, and that's a fact that everyone knows. The Lawsuit business model is simply the natural end of the cycle when you have greedy corporate types in charge during the death throws of a company.
Well there are some darlings of the open source world that everyone loves to tout even if they aren't the best for every situation. MySQL is of course the best example in the database arena (vs Postgresql). Apache is another good example. You hear lots of people all worshiping Apache, and many bitching about its resource usage and the brain dead configuration file, but no one EVER suggests you give lighttpd a try (seriously, it's a great web server if you don't need the kitchen sink).
I think it's just a side effect of OS envangelism where everyone cites the same example, and the competing OS projects are sort of washed out in the buzz.
Re:10.0 is about when you rethink your naming sche
on
SUSE 10.0 OSS Released
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· Score: 2, Funny
I wont argue that its "morally okay", the reason I differentiate it is because I find it disturbing that you can jail someone for downloading 500 songs as long as someone who stole 500 cars because they both qualify as "theft".
They are different things that are both wrong, but need to be differentiated for the purpose of legal reprocussions. Same reason manslaughter and murder carry different penalties but are both considered killing.
You might want to read up on the GPL which only affects you if you distribute the code in question. You can take a GPL app and screw with it until the cows come home within your own company. Distribution referrs to the level where the development happens. If I do it as an individual developer, I cannot give it to other individuals without the GPL. As a company, I cannot give it to those outside the company. If you're a company that simply wants to _use_ GPL applications, you are pretty much unrestricted in what you can do with them. I think if more companies realized this, they'd be more friendly to the licence.
You're both sort of off. There is an auto-vacuum, but it doesn't do a full vacuum which you'll want to do from time to time. Vacuuming doesn't update the statistics anyway, that is done by ANALYZE which can be done with a vacuum or by itself.
When people ask me about postgresql I'm always up front and tell them that it's a great database BUT you have to vacuum it before a billion transactions... or else! It sucks, but it's something I can live with. I can do a vacuum at night, and a full vacuum on the weekend, that's no problem for me. If I need statistics updated more frequently then use a cron job to ANALYZE [table] as often as needed
I agree, that saying MySQL is playing "catch up" is misleading. Mysql's goal has been to have a quick, open source database, that is fairly easy to use. They've accomplished that, and done fairly well for themselves. I think it's only pressure from Posgresql being close to enterprise class that has caused the userbase to pressure the MySQL team to even add these features.
Now not having stuff like (real) foreign keys seems crazy to me, but I could see how many people may not need them. MySQL has attained its initial goals, its just not exactly the same as the other database vendors goals.
6x is an incramental upgrade. I'm using the beta versions on a laptop to get a good heads up. I really can't tell the difference, and it's been very stable for me (not that it experiences heavy loads). I think there was something in the changelog about having 5x compatibility libraries in place to make SURE that everything still worked. If you choose you can compile out 5x support of the kernel, but some ports may have issues until they are recompiled as well (didn't have any problems myself).
Yeah, that's definatly a distro problem. If you compile from source (or use a package) then there isn't much of a difference. Sure you may need to read the manual for Postgres to get started, but only an idiot would use MySQL without understanding many of the gocha's involved - thus requiring you to read the manual as well.
Well there's also the OTHER advantage of OSS, that's choice. I've looked into different Wiki setups and Twiki was one of the first I evaluated, especially because of its file upload capabilities. I had a bad feeling after the considerable ammount of work it took to get it up. I looked over the code and I was.. not impressed, to put it nicely. Overall I think Twiki is junk and they need to re-write it from scratch.
Now some people will cling to various insecure software, but when you have a stream of fixes often, it is only a matter of time before you hit a gap and someone catches you with your pants down. Personally I wound't trust Twiki at all, and certainly would never have it publicly exposed if I HAD to use it.
Yeah I'm pretty young, around 30 ish, but I've been pondering the roles of age for a while now. I basically see how my views fit in the schemes of things with those in my family that are younger and older than myself.
I agree that Thomas Jefferson may do a good job, but I imagine if you got the REST of the population from 1750 along with him, you'll have major issues at large I'd think. I don't think that the young push forward as much as the old hold back. As we age we hang on to a lot of baggage due to our experiences in life - that's good and bad. I think that in order to cope with our quickly changing society that basically falling over dead is probably the only way we'll cope with it all. The difference between a man and his grandson in 1400 wasn't that big. My grandmother grew up without electricity, that's a HUGE change. As we age we have priceless experience to pass on, but at when does all of that get in the way? I think humans have a natural life span for a reason. We maintain a ballence between an older generation's experience with the new generation that has a clean slate. I think that if you stretch that out to 3x it's natural length, you will end up with an unballenced equation.
Wisdom comes with age (at least for some), and one thing we learn is that the next generation is not so different from the last as they would like to believe.
Very true! I think probably more fustrating is the phrase "history repeats itself". I'd hope that with people having a memory that spans 300 years we'd avoid some of the stupidity, but we already have situations where we repeat the same mistakes we made just a few decades before =/
Which brings up the point, do you really WANT to live 300 years? We already tend to go downhill after our 20's, and each decade after is compounded by more health problems. Now some people will claim that uber-nano technology, and some franken-science will keep us in great shape, but simply put; every part in our body wears out with time.
We seriously can live pretty long as it is. If you can't live it up in the first ~70 years, you're probably not going to get more out of the next 230. Not to meantion that the cost of upkeep to your health goes up significantly with time. When you're 18 you just need a couple shots and general care for accidents. When you're 80, just falling down can be a very costly ordeal.
And as a side point, the world progresses by generations. The additude and bias of the last generation is replaced by the fresh more adapted views of the next generation. As a whole, humanity grows by death of the old, and birth of the new. Think your government representitives are bad now, then think of what would happen if a guy who was born in 1750 was making the decisions on stuff like the Internet
Distribute a binary with everything compiled in for all I care.
Well that creates an uber dependancy state that could end up being a nightmare to manage. Maybe you need package x, but that requires 4 dependancies which each have 4 more dependancies, etc. If you were to have everything compiled in you're going to end up with 70% bullshit you don't need on your system. Not only that, bit it's quite possible that in this 70%, something may brake which will screw up the stuff you really DO need.
That's one of the reasons I switched to Gentoo. I compile in the stuff I want, and portage only compiles in support for the things I want, and can keep out the stuff I don't. I'm not saying that Gentoo is the answer, but I think the fact Gentoo highlights the problem with binary package distros.
No, i'd say it's insightful. AOL does not contribute to Mozilla, but still controls NETSCAPE. To us the difference is minor, but some still cling to the netscape name, and perhaps the portal still as well. This would also garantee that AOL does not switch to Firefox or something else as its web browser.
That aside, AOL still controls ICQ, AIM, and Winamp. All of which compete directly with MS products.
Ms controling netscape is bad enough, but MS lording over Winamp?? *cringe*
Not really. When you adjust for inflation we've been spending about as much on these 'entertainment systems' and in previous generations they hardly had any of the capabilities (play dvds, cds). Not only that, but when you think of paying $645 (1977 -> $199) to move a bunch of blocks around for an atari 2600 this doesn't look all that bad.
Can't remember how many times my parents would trip over my controller cables. Now my kids get to do it to me.
Come to think of it I can't get away from people doing this. First my parents, then drunk college friends, then kids... I hope I'm never hooked up to an iv in a hospital when I'm old...
Heh, I was going to post that all I usually have are wires (power/vid/etc), a cdrom, and a spare hard drive. But when it comes down to it, you just need a bunch of spare working computers as you say. The problem is that all of this stuff doesn't fit on a bench easily. I mean look at the video card. You at minimum need a PCI to make sure the computer can handle video at all. There are about 3 different types of AGP slots. When you take all of the different types of RAM/hard drives/Cards etc into account it isn't really a desk anymore, it's a scrapyard.
Basically a minimum you need two screw drivers (flat, phillips), needle nose pliers, a small box of jumpers and screws, and possibly a few cables and that's about it. Copies of often used CD's as well I suppose. Probably the best layout is having stuff organized and easily within reach NEAR the desk, because you'll never fit it all on there anyway. Some people are posting about compressed air, but I don't know why in the hell you'd want to blow all that dirt around your desk anyway, go outside or somewhere you don't care where it's dirty.
And a pristine CDROM... don't even screw with whatever is in the computer. Lost a few knoppix cds to turbojet scratch-o-matic drives...
Heh, I wonder how many of us got started that way. I recall me asking if I could take anything apart that we were going to throw away. Sometimes I would take things apart that wern't garbage and about half the time that stuff ended up getting thrown away as a result.
My mom would always complain that I would just take things apart and never put them back together and usually make a huge mess. Sometime around the time I was 12 my mother noticed that if I took things apart that were working they usually still worked. A bit after that I would take non working this apart and put them together working. Now days my mom often says "I'm glad you taking things apart actually gave you some skills" whenever she needs help with things. I hope I'm as patient with my kids when they brake all my shit =/
Women have friends in an office? Ever worked with women in an office? My worst enemy and I are chums compaired to women and their co-worker "friends". Sometimes I think if there weren't laws and social restrictions, it would look like WWE Smackdown in the front office when I come in the morning.
In practice, I've never seen a DBMS that returns error messages that are useful to anyone but a DBA. So it makes sense for clients to at least check for the common errors.
Pretty much what I was going to post. If you your data is bad and you send it to the server and get a DB error back, you either have to figure out what to do with the error, or spit it out at the user. And lets face it, what in the hell is a user going to do with an SQL DB error message?
Basically you should rely on data checking for your user's sanity in your app no matter what. It's your app's job to sheild the user from the DB. It is the DBs job to shield good consistent data from your app's stupidity.
Access can link tables for ANYTHING that has an odbc connector (Pretty much everything). Access is one of those programs that doesn't get enough credit in my opinion. Great for bridging gaps like mailmerge directly from a server, and doing reports. I use Access to write reports from my postgres servers and am quite happy with it. I think OO.org is supposed to be able to do this as well, but if it works, why fix it?
Just about as bad, I tend to open different browser windows but not close firefox. My girlfriend occasionally hits the 'middle' mouse button. I'm not sure what this is supposed to do in Firefox in Unix, but my girlfriend started referring to it as the 'random porn you've been looking at button'. Apperently it goes somewhere in the history or something.
I couldn't find any useful way to use it so I eventually figured out how to disable it.
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I wouldn't say they're garbage just no methodology for pointing out the obvious. MS Office 2k spanks OO.org on Windows on every machine I've tried it on - on both speed and memory.
Besides which, if there are that many vairables to OO running "well" then at least you could say MS office is consistent.
It doesn't really matter to me since I'll be using OO anyway. Besides which now that the open source world (Koffice, etc) have also pleged to support the OASIS format, we should be able to pick and choose our word processors in a few years without worrying about compatability. Open office isn't our last hope, it's our foot in the door.
MS may have understood that they need a powerful shell for their system, but once again they seem to have missed the point. Looking over all of this I saw this re-occurring theme that it looks like 'irb' (interactive ruby interpreter). MS hasn't really given us a shell, they've worked up an interactive programming language. Along with that they've essentially increased the complexity about 5 times.
If you look at a unix shell like bash it's extremely simple. The ammount of things that bash itself can do isn't all that much. People like to cite overly complicated shell scripts as the reason bash is bad, but the simple fact is that bash isn't really intended to do everything, and if it's too complex for your sell you are supposed to do it in a programming langauge. The flip side is that no one really needs to be crusing around their filesystem inside of a programming language; it's the wrong tool for the job.
So what I see is MS gave us an overly complicated shell that is basically a new programming language. It will lack the flexibility that has allowed the Unix shell to be so powerful after 30 years, and it will probably have all sorts of backwards compatibility issues by the next generation.
It is and it actually makes some sense. See you have a couple different models. Google's make cool stuff yourself. Yahoo's (and many other companies) aquire vaguely related stuff and run it into the ground, and ebay's suck in things near it.
In the world of Internet based business, companies are extremely flakey, and of the 4-5 internet cornerstones you can name off the top of your head, ebay is one. When ebay depends so heavily on paypal, why leave it up to chance that they are going to screw it up and damage your company? At least the companies aquired by ebay are directly related to their business, as apposed to Yahoo aquiring geocities for example.
People can say what they like about SCO, but at least they actually had a product for YEARS. SCOs business model becomming lawsuits is more a symptom than an overall "plot" to do this from the beginning. SCO is going to go bankrupt, and that's a fact that everyone knows. The Lawsuit business model is simply the natural end of the cycle when you have greedy corporate types in charge during the death throws of a company.
Well there are some darlings of the open source world that everyone loves to tout even if they aren't the best for every situation. MySQL is of course the best example in the database arena (vs Postgresql). Apache is another good example. You hear lots of people all worshiping Apache, and many bitching about its resource usage and the brain dead configuration file, but no one EVER suggests you give lighttpd a try (seriously, it's a great web server if you don't need the kitchen sink).
I think it's just a side effect of OS envangelism where everyone cites the same example, and the competing OS projects are sort of washed out in the buzz.
Chessmaster is at 9000 or higher by now
I wont argue that its "morally okay", the reason I differentiate it is because I find it disturbing that you can jail someone for downloading 500 songs as long as someone who stole 500 cars because they both qualify as "theft".
They are different things that are both wrong, but need to be differentiated for the purpose of legal reprocussions. Same reason manslaughter and murder carry different penalties but are both considered killing.
You might want to read up on the GPL which only affects you if you distribute the code in question. You can take a GPL app and screw with it until the cows come home within your own company. Distribution referrs to the level where the development happens. If I do it as an individual developer, I cannot give it to other individuals without the GPL. As a company, I cannot give it to those outside the company. If you're a company that simply wants to _use_ GPL applications, you are pretty much unrestricted in what you can do with them. I think if more companies realized this, they'd be more friendly to the licence.
You're both sort of off. There is an auto-vacuum, but it doesn't do a full vacuum which you'll want to do from time to time. Vacuuming doesn't update the statistics anyway, that is done by ANALYZE which can be done with a vacuum or by itself.
When people ask me about postgresql I'm always up front and tell them that it's a great database BUT you have to vacuum it before a billion transactions... or else! It sucks, but it's something I can live with. I can do a vacuum at night, and a full vacuum on the weekend, that's no problem for me. If I need statistics updated more frequently then use a cron job to ANALYZE [table] as often as needed
(disclaimer: I'm a Postgresql zealot)
I agree, that saying MySQL is playing "catch up" is misleading. Mysql's goal has been to have a quick, open source database, that is fairly easy to use. They've accomplished that, and done fairly well for themselves. I think it's only pressure from Posgresql being close to enterprise class that has caused the userbase to pressure the MySQL team to even add these features.
Now not having stuff like (real) foreign keys seems crazy to me, but I could see how many people may not need them. MySQL has attained its initial goals, its just not exactly the same as the other database vendors goals.
6x is an incramental upgrade. I'm using the beta versions on a laptop to get a good heads up. I really can't tell the difference, and it's been very stable for me (not that it experiences heavy loads). I think there was something in the changelog about having 5x compatibility libraries in place to make SURE that everything still worked. If you choose you can compile out 5x support of the kernel, but some ports may have issues until they are recompiled as well (didn't have any problems myself).
Yeah, that's definatly a distro problem. If you compile from source (or use a package) then there isn't much of a difference. Sure you may need to read the manual for Postgres to get started, but only an idiot would use MySQL without understanding many of the gocha's involved - thus requiring you to read the manual as well.
Well there's also the OTHER advantage of OSS, that's choice. I've looked into different Wiki setups and Twiki was one of the first I evaluated, especially because of its file upload capabilities. I had a bad feeling after the considerable ammount of work it took to get it up. I looked over the code and I was.. not impressed, to put it nicely. Overall I think Twiki is junk and they need to re-write it from scratch.
Now some people will cling to various insecure software, but when you have a stream of fixes often, it is only a matter of time before you hit a gap and someone catches you with your pants down. Personally I wound't trust Twiki at all, and certainly would never have it publicly exposed if I HAD to use it.
Yeah I'm pretty young, around 30 ish, but I've been pondering the roles of age for a while now. I basically see how my views fit in the schemes of things with those in my family that are younger and older than myself.
I agree that Thomas Jefferson may do a good job, but I imagine if you got the REST of the population from 1750 along with him, you'll have major issues at large I'd think. I don't think that the young push forward as much as the old hold back. As we age we hang on to a lot of baggage due to our experiences in life - that's good and bad. I think that in order to cope with our quickly changing society that basically falling over dead is probably the only way we'll cope with it all. The difference between a man and his grandson in 1400 wasn't that big. My grandmother grew up without electricity, that's a HUGE change. As we age we have priceless experience to pass on, but at when does all of that get in the way? I think humans have a natural life span for a reason. We maintain a ballence between an older generation's experience with the new generation that has a clean slate. I think that if you stretch that out to 3x it's natural length, you will end up with an unballenced equation.
Wisdom comes with age (at least for some), and one thing we learn is that the next generation is not so different from the last as they would like to believe.
Very true! I think probably more fustrating is the phrase "history repeats itself". I'd hope that with people having a memory that spans 300 years we'd avoid some of the stupidity, but we already have situations where we repeat the same mistakes we made just a few decades before =/
Which brings up the point, do you really WANT to live 300 years? We already tend to go downhill after our 20's, and each decade after is compounded by more health problems. Now some people will claim that uber-nano technology, and some franken-science will keep us in great shape, but simply put; every part in our body wears out with time.
We seriously can live pretty long as it is. If you can't live it up in the first ~70 years, you're probably not going to get more out of the next 230. Not to meantion that the cost of upkeep to your health goes up significantly with time. When you're 18 you just need a couple shots and general care for accidents. When you're 80, just falling down can be a very costly ordeal.
And as a side point, the world progresses by generations. The additude and bias of the last generation is replaced by the fresh more adapted views of the next generation. As a whole, humanity grows by death of the old, and birth of the new. Think your government representitives are bad now, then think of what would happen if a guy who was born in 1750 was making the decisions on stuff like the Internet
Distribute a binary with everything compiled in for all I care.
Well that creates an uber dependancy state that could end up being a nightmare to manage. Maybe you need package x, but that requires 4 dependancies which each have 4 more dependancies, etc. If you were to have everything compiled in you're going to end up with 70% bullshit you don't need on your system. Not only that, bit it's quite possible that in this 70%, something may brake which will screw up the stuff you really DO need.
That's one of the reasons I switched to Gentoo. I compile in the stuff I want, and portage only compiles in support for the things I want, and can keep out the stuff I don't. I'm not saying that Gentoo is the answer, but I think the fact Gentoo highlights the problem with binary package distros.
No, i'd say it's insightful. AOL does not contribute to Mozilla, but still controls NETSCAPE. To us the difference is minor, but some still cling to the netscape name, and perhaps the portal still as well. This would also garantee that AOL does not switch to Firefox or something else as its web browser.
That aside, AOL still controls ICQ, AIM, and Winamp. All of which compete directly with MS products.
Ms controling netscape is bad enough, but MS lording over Winamp?? *cringe*
Not really. When you adjust for inflation we've been spending about as much on these 'entertainment systems' and in previous generations they hardly had any of the capabilities (play dvds, cds). Not only that, but when you think of paying $645 (1977 -> $199) to move a bunch of blocks around for an atari 2600 this doesn't look all that bad.
Haha! how times change!
Can't remember how many times my parents would trip over my controller cables. Now my kids get to do it to me.
Come to think of it I can't get away from people doing this. First my parents, then drunk college friends, then kids... I hope I'm never hooked up to an iv in a hospital when I'm old...
Heh, I was going to post that all I usually have are wires (power/vid/etc), a cdrom, and a spare hard drive. But when it comes down to it, you just need a bunch of spare working computers as you say.
The problem is that all of this stuff doesn't fit on a bench easily. I mean look at the video card. You at minimum need a PCI to make sure the computer can handle video at all. There are about 3 different types of AGP slots. When you take all of the different types of RAM/hard drives/Cards etc into account it isn't really a desk anymore, it's a scrapyard.
Basically a minimum you need two screw drivers (flat, phillips), needle nose pliers, a small box of jumpers and screws, and possibly a few cables and that's about it. Copies of often used CD's as well I suppose. Probably the best layout is having stuff organized and easily within reach NEAR the desk, because you'll never fit it all on there anyway. Some people are posting about compressed air, but I don't know why in the hell you'd want to blow all that dirt around your desk anyway, go outside or somewhere you don't care where it's dirty.
And a pristine CDROM... don't even screw with whatever is in the computer. Lost a few knoppix cds to turbojet scratch-o-matic drives...
Heh, I wonder how many of us got started that way. I recall me asking if I could take anything apart that we were going to throw away. Sometimes I would take things apart that wern't garbage and about half the time that stuff ended up getting thrown away as a result.
My mom would always complain that I would just take things apart and never put them back together and usually make a huge mess. Sometime around the time I was 12 my mother noticed that if I took things apart that were working they usually still worked. A bit after that I would take non working this apart and put them together working. Now days my mom often says "I'm glad you taking things apart actually gave you some skills" whenever she needs help with things. I hope I'm as patient with my kids when they brake all my shit =/
Women have friends in an office? Ever worked with women in an office? My worst enemy and I are chums compaired to women and their co-worker "friends". Sometimes I think if there weren't laws and social restrictions, it would look like WWE Smackdown in the front office when I come in the morning.
In practice, I've never seen a DBMS that returns error messages that are useful to anyone but a DBA. So it makes sense for clients to at least check for the common errors.
Pretty much what I was going to post. If you your data is bad and you send it to the server and get a DB error back, you either have to figure out what to do with the error, or spit it out at the user. And lets face it, what in the hell is a user going to do with an SQL DB error message?
Basically you should rely on data checking for your user's sanity in your app no matter what. It's your app's job to sheild the user from the DB. It is the DBs job to shield good consistent data from your app's stupidity.
Access can link tables for ANYTHING that has an odbc connector (Pretty much everything). Access is one of those programs that doesn't get enough credit in my opinion. Great for bridging gaps like mailmerge directly from a server, and doing reports. I use Access to write reports from my postgres servers and am quite happy with it. I think OO.org is supposed to be able to do this as well, but if it works, why fix it?
Just about as bad, I tend to open different browser windows but not close firefox. My girlfriend occasionally hits the 'middle' mouse button. I'm not sure what this is supposed to do in Firefox in Unix, but my girlfriend started referring to it as the 'random porn you've been looking at button'. Apperently it goes somewhere in the history or something.
I couldn't find any useful way to use it so I eventually figured out how to disable it.