Are you claiming that human devised clock time is not an arbitrary scale in the sense that it is man-made, and could have been implemented many other ways?
It was specifically designed to match the rotation of the earth using units common at the time. That is not spin the bottle.
Mapping to a sign wave in two opposite jumps doesn't sound like any rational mapping to me.
It is how all digital sampling works and is quite rational, the only difference is how frequent you samples.
If you are going to do this, then all clocks must be able to auto-sync to a standard clock that shifts by seconds per day, accounting for longitude and latitude. A global time system that adjusts correctly, locally and everywhere.
Which was my original suggestion. Up until 20 years ago this was not feasible, so we are stuck with a low tech sampling frequency. There is no technical reason we couldn't release a DST v2 that was sampled 12 times a year or even 52 to closer match the natural cycle. NTP is already widely used in networks all over the world, there is no reason in the age of IOT we can't make this a new standard.
Closer to the natural cycle? You clearly have not thought this through. How is changing by 1 hour twice a year, in just two big jumps, anything like a natural cycle?
If you graph the hours of daylight throughout the year it would look like a stretched out sine wave. DST attempts to map this analog curve with a sampling frequency of twice per year. The Non-DST map has a sampling frequency of only once per year (ie a less accurate sampling rate). If we want clocks to more closely match nature, we need a higher sampling frequency, not less.
Clock time is arbitrary, and making the time jump around is anything but a "natural cycle".
A clock is not arbitrary, it is merely a low resolution map of the movement of the sun. It is inaccurate and clumsy, and DST is only slightly less worse. To improve this you would increase the resolution, not reduce it.
You seem to be stabbing in the dark with all sorts of ideas to justify why you think it's correct to assume that moving from the UK to New Zealand will always leave you better off,
Um you got it ass backwards. You said there's many millions of Brits just like you. I never said always, in fact I specifically called out the rare cases where it might not be so. The point I was making was that for most Brits, houses are on average bigger and cost less. Of course it's not true in 100% of cases, but you didn't even give one to back up your claim
Most such emigration myths are based on the classic fallacy of believing the grass is always greener,
Most people I know who moved (and I know a fair few) moved because they wanted to try something different. Not to do exactly the same thing, or a perception of a better life, merely something that is more interesting. You are clearly not one of them, you've made that point clear.
..and that right there is the problem. You're willing to "bet" on this sort of stuff without any facts. We have a name for people who form their opinions like that. We call them idiots.
Well that added value to the discussion. You must be fun at parties...
What benefit is there to DST? Name one single benefit.
I already did, it aligns the clock with the changes of daylight due to seasonal changes. It is crude and jarring, but it still closer to the natural cycle than not using DST. An improvement would be to gradually adjust the clock to the season rather than two big shifts each year.
People are going to drive in the dark in the winter no matter what you do to the time on your clock. Either you drive in the dark in the morning, or in the evening.
Some people do more with their lives than just drive around...
That's a stupid idea, and it's not backed up by anything.
A subway train is capable of moving 75000 people an hour. You average freeway lane moving at 110km/h tops out at about 2000 people per hour. It's not even close.
Buses tend to spend a lot of time severely underutilized, which is a problem that smaller vehicles won't have.
Even then they still beat average people moved per hour. The stats vary depending on road type, city density etc, but where I live, in rush hour we move less than 1000 cars per lane (mostly with one person in them), The bus service moves almost 10000. Again, not even close.
They don't require you to share, which is a massive feature; I've been on buses, and I don't like being on them. They also don't require you to go places you don't want to go, as buses do. They don't make you wait for lots of other people to get their shit together during embarkation or disembarkation, as buses do. They don't take massive amounts of energy to start and stop, as buses do. Large vehicles are idiotic and that you believe they are good is ridiculous. They are terrible even from an efficiency standpoint, and they are also terrible in every other way. The only thing good about them is that they require less human labor, but the human labor component is being removed.
A bus uses about 2-3 times as many resources as a car yet moves 100 times as many people. So they are up to 30 times more efficient.
The fact they don't go where you want is due to poor town planning or investment, not anything inherently flawed with a bus or train. Just because you know nothing about the efficiency and effectiveness of different modes of transport doesn't other people don't.
The fact remains, in large dense cities, Trains and buses are the only option currently available that can scale to meet demand.
DST is biologically absurd. Earth time is based on an approximately 24 hr day, with seasonal shifts in the length of the day/night cycle based on latitude. Biological organisms synchronize with this cycle (termed circadian entrainment). Trying to shift that cycle by 1 hour artificially twice a year is counterproductive and harmful.
Not as absurd as not shifting it.
The best option would be natural shifting of about a minute per week to match the seasons.
Second best option is a jarring shift of one hour twice a year.
Worst option is no change so the clocks are most out of sync with the sun
What's wanted is parking garages where you can catch a PRT pod... and a PRT system to go with that pod
Also more stupid than bus lanes. In large, dense cities, to move large amounts of people you need large vehicles. These are trains and buses, not cars, robot cars, cars on rails, or any other variation of the car. Cars are the stupidest option available.
You say the real business happens with a contract. That is simply details, the REAL business is done up front when deciding to do something at all. That appeared to have happened with Musk/Australia mostly over Twitter!
You clearly have no experience with doing any sort of business deal....
So many people move countries without thinking it through or looking into it, and then just end up moving back to their place of origin within a year or two, and it's precisely because of the type of issue I'm describing here
I think you've highlighted the real issue here. Some people are more adventurous and will do anything for the experience and are willing to put up with more to get out and about and do new things.
You might be one of them, but based on the amount of Brits I see absolutely everywhere I go around the world, a lot of your country-people aren't as timid.
Anyway, i'm just suggesting that using a battery tech that doesnt exhibit thermal runaway effects sounds like a good idea in a country thats hot and gets fires on a yearly basis sounds like a good idea should such a technology exist and otherwise performs adequately
If it makes you feel better, there are tonnes of batteries (literally) used in UPS's all over the place already and this hasn't been a problem.
I find it interesting that lots of high-level business is now done through Twitter - both Trump and Musk are doing it, soon others will follow.
Er, none of this really qualifies as 'business'. People who run businesses are performing PR stunts on Twitter, that is all. The real business still happens with a contract, which happens in offices with lots of boring stuff and boring people.
Sure, but is it cheaper in the long run? I agree with you in so far as to say that this is a question about total cost of ownership and continued maintenance. Power plants require their own expensive maintenance but those parts can be acquired from a number of different sources. Those sources can compete on pricing. Who does Elon presently have to compete with?
No idea of actual costs, but I'd be willing to bet that a warehouse full of batteries costs considerably less than maintaining a large scale power plant for decades.
I would add that it's a folly to dismiss Trump as stupid. He's "used car salesman" smart. There are a lot of interesting and effective negotiation tactics that are available when you can throw ethics and long-term credibility out of consideration.
This is one of the best summaries of Trump I've read in a while. Personally I think the guy is a tool and not fit for office, but I also get a little pissed off with the leftwing media's portrayal of him as a moron. The Car salesmen analogy is spot on. He might not be intellectual, or likeable, or even competent, but he is shrewd, and that goes a long way at the negotiating table.
He's defining "businessmen" as "people who run actual businesses, not non profits."
Ok I can't speak for all American 'businessmen' (and women), but two of this richest most highest profile 'businessmen' I know of, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett tend to lean towards the Democrats. So on the surface this claim seems like bunk.
And before you get angry, I'm sure there's plenty of support on both sides of the fence, but simply claiming that most 'businessmen' are Republican sounds a little moronic.
Do you think the average teenager or soccer mom who uses these features actually cares who invented what first?
Nope, but for teenagers they do care if 'product A' is their parents thing, and 'product B' isn't.
Teenagers like to be different, rebel, and find their own style, Facebook isn't that, so no matter how hard FB tries, they are already tarnished by the fact all their parents use it, therefore it cannot be cool.
Sure, but just like Apple, Nike, or Coca Cola, once you have established yourself as the 'it' brand, the brand becomes more important than the product.
I'm not a big user, I only use it to communicate with my kids. And for the teenagers these days, FB is what their parents use and Snapchat is their thing. And as we all know, as a teenager, once something has been established as your' parent's thing', there is no coming back from that.
. In 10 years 99.999999999% of the domains on this TLD will not even involve an African company or individual.
In 10 years there'll probably be as many.africa domains as there are now.
I was working in China when the.asia TLD was released and the discussion was had about whether we register a bunch of names to secure them. We decided it was a gimmick and didn't bother, and it turns out everyone else must've thought the same thing. You see the odd.asia domain from time to time, but for the size of the continent, and the amount of business they do, they are almost non-existent.
Lol, this is my Dad's favourite song, and for the last 30 years we've been singing 'missed' until Iast year when I was learning to play the song and found the real lyrics. I actually think missed sounds better, as the song has a bit of a sombre tone, about longing and missed opportunities, and missing something huge like the rains in a dry continent sort of resonates with that. Blessed just have the same ring to it.
Slashdot Mirror
Are you claiming that human devised clock time is not an arbitrary scale in the sense that it is man-made, and could have been implemented many other ways?
It was specifically designed to match the rotation of the earth using units common at the time. That is not spin the bottle.
Mapping to a sign wave in two opposite jumps doesn't sound like any rational mapping to me.
It is how all digital sampling works and is quite rational, the only difference is how frequent you samples.
If you are going to do this, then all clocks must be able to auto-sync to a standard clock that shifts by seconds per day, accounting for longitude and latitude. A global time system that adjusts correctly, locally and everywhere.
Which was my original suggestion. Up until 20 years ago this was not feasible, so we are stuck with a low tech sampling frequency. There is no technical reason we couldn't release a DST v2 that was sampled 12 times a year or even 52 to closer match the natural cycle. NTP is already widely used in networks all over the world, there is no reason in the age of IOT we can't make this a new standard.
Closer to the natural cycle? You clearly have not thought this through. How is changing by 1 hour twice a year, in just two big jumps, anything like a natural cycle?
If you graph the hours of daylight throughout the year it would look like a stretched out sine wave. DST attempts to map this analog curve with a sampling frequency of twice per year. The Non-DST map has a sampling frequency of only once per year (ie a less accurate sampling rate). If we want clocks to more closely match nature, we need a higher sampling frequency, not less.
Clock time is arbitrary, and making the time jump around is anything but a "natural cycle".
A clock is not arbitrary, it is merely a low resolution map of the movement of the sun. It is inaccurate and clumsy, and DST is only slightly less worse. To improve this you would increase the resolution, not reduce it.
You seem to be stabbing in the dark with all sorts of ideas to justify why you think it's correct to assume that moving from the UK to New Zealand will always leave you better off,
Um you got it ass backwards. You said there's many millions of Brits just like you. I never said always, in fact I specifically called out the rare cases where it might not be so. The point I was making was that for most Brits, houses are on average bigger and cost less. Of course it's not true in 100% of cases, but you didn't even give one to back up your claim
Most such emigration myths are based on the classic fallacy of believing the grass is always greener,
Most people I know who moved (and I know a fair few) moved because they wanted to try something different. Not to do exactly the same thing, or a perception of a better life, merely something that is more interesting. You are clearly not one of them, you've made that point clear.
..and that right there is the problem. You're willing to "bet" on this sort of stuff without any facts. We have a name for people who form their opinions like that. We call them idiots.
Well that added value to the discussion. You must be fun at parties...
Get up earlier and stop messing with the clocks.
I'm getting the impression you're about 85 and there's some kids on your lawn...
Those are not reasons, those are poor excuses.
Riiighttt.......
What benefit is there to DST? Name one single benefit.
I already did, it aligns the clock with the changes of daylight due to seasonal changes. It is crude and jarring, but it still closer to the natural cycle than not using DST. An improvement would be to gradually adjust the clock to the season rather than two big shifts each year.
People are going to drive in the dark in the winter no matter what you do to the time on your clock. Either you drive in the dark in the morning, or in the evening.
Some people do more with their lives than just drive around...
That's a stupid idea, and it's not backed up by anything.
A subway train is capable of moving 75000 people an hour. You average freeway lane moving at 110km/h tops out at about 2000 people per hour. It's not even close.
Buses tend to spend a lot of time severely underutilized, which is a problem that smaller vehicles won't have.
Even then they still beat average people moved per hour. The stats vary depending on road type, city density etc, but where I live, in rush hour we move less than 1000 cars per lane (mostly with one person in them), The bus service moves almost 10000. Again, not even close .
They don't require you to share, which is a massive feature; I've been on buses, and I don't like being on them. They also don't require you to go places you don't want to go, as buses do. They don't make you wait for lots of other people to get their shit together during embarkation or disembarkation, as buses do. They don't take massive amounts of energy to start and stop, as buses do. Large vehicles are idiotic and that you believe they are good is ridiculous. They are terrible even from an efficiency standpoint, and they are also terrible in every other way. The only thing good about them is that they require less human labor, but the human labor component is being removed.
A bus uses about 2-3 times as many resources as a car yet moves 100 times as many people. So they are up to 30 times more efficient.
The fact they don't go where you want is due to poor town planning or investment, not anything inherently flawed with a bus or train. Just because you know nothing about the efficiency and effectiveness of different modes of transport doesn't other people don't.
The fact remains, in large dense cities, Trains and buses are the only option currently available that can scale to meet demand.
Having islands of DST and non-DST time can be a pain in the neck for sysadmins.
What is this 1999? Since Y2K, Machines should all be set to UTC, and the app should know how to deal with local conversion.
Did you know that daylight savings time single handedly kills more people from cardiac problems than terrorism per year.
As do people being shot by toddlers, but here we are. OMG Terrorism!!!
Just get to work early and you can leave early so you will get more daylight after work.
And get all your friends to do it too. And all the shops, and the schools, and all the sports clubs, and... oh wait....
DST is biologically absurd. Earth time is based on an approximately 24 hr day, with seasonal shifts in the length of the day/night cycle based on latitude. Biological organisms synchronize with this cycle (termed circadian entrainment). Trying to shift that cycle by 1 hour artificially twice a year is counterproductive and harmful.
Not as absurd as not shifting it.
The best option would be natural shifting of about a minute per week to match the seasons.
Second best option is a jarring shift of one hour twice a year.
Worst option is no change so the clocks are most out of sync with the sun
Right! Bus lanes are stupid.
But still less stupid than cars...
What's wanted is parking garages where you can catch a PRT pod... and a PRT system to go with that pod
Also more stupid than bus lanes. In large, dense cities, to move large amounts of people you need large vehicles. These are trains and buses, not cars, robot cars, cars on rails, or any other variation of the car. Cars are the stupidest option available.
You say the real business happens with a contract. That is simply details, the REAL business is done up front when deciding to do something at all. That appeared to have happened with Musk/Australia mostly over Twitter!
You clearly have no experience with doing any sort of business deal....
So many people move countries without thinking it through or looking into it, and then just end up moving back to their place of origin within a year or two, and it's precisely because of the type of issue I'm describing here
I think you've highlighted the real issue here. Some people are more adventurous and will do anything for the experience and are willing to put up with more to get out and about and do new things.
You might be one of them, but based on the amount of Brits I see absolutely everywhere I go around the world, a lot of your country-people aren't as timid.
Anyway, i'm just suggesting that using a battery tech that doesnt exhibit thermal runaway effects sounds like a good idea in a country thats hot and gets fires on a yearly basis sounds like a good idea should such a technology exist and otherwise performs adequately
If it makes you feel better, there are tonnes of batteries (literally) used in UPS's all over the place already and this hasn't been a problem.
I find it interesting that lots of high-level business is now done through Twitter - both Trump and Musk are doing it, soon others will follow.
Er, none of this really qualifies as 'business'. People who run businesses are performing PR stunts on Twitter, that is all. The real business still happens with a contract, which happens in offices with lots of boring stuff and boring people.
I don't really want to know what happens when a bushfire hits a substation filled with Lithium-Ion batteries.
Um, this is probably solved by not building your battery farm in the middle of the bush? (seems obvious, but here we are...)
Sure, but is it cheaper in the long run? I agree with you in so far as to say that this is a question about total cost of ownership and continued maintenance. Power plants require their own expensive maintenance but those parts can be acquired from a number of different sources. Those sources can compete on pricing. Who does Elon presently have to compete with?
No idea of actual costs, but I'd be willing to bet that a warehouse full of batteries costs considerably less than maintaining a large scale power plant for decades.
I would add that it's a folly to dismiss Trump as stupid. He's "used car salesman" smart. There are a lot of interesting and effective negotiation tactics that are available when you can throw ethics and long-term credibility out of consideration.
This is one of the best summaries of Trump I've read in a while. Personally I think the guy is a tool and not fit for office, but I also get a little pissed off with the leftwing media's portrayal of him as a moron. The Car salesmen analogy is spot on. He might not be intellectual, or likeable, or even competent, but he is shrewd, and that goes a long way at the negotiating table.
He's defining "businessmen" as "people who run actual businesses, not non profits."
Ok I can't speak for all American 'businessmen' (and women), but two of this richest most highest profile 'businessmen' I know of, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett tend to lean towards the Democrats. So on the surface this claim seems like bunk.
And before you get angry, I'm sure there's plenty of support on both sides of the fence, but simply claiming that most 'businessmen' are Republican sounds a little moronic.
TL:DR version: people use Snapchat because messages disappear, network effect and it's not Facebook.
I have teenage kids and it's the same deal. Messages disappear, no stupid ads, and it's not FB. FB simply cannot compete with this.
Do you think the average teenager or soccer mom who uses these features actually cares who invented what first?
Nope, but for teenagers they do care if 'product A' is their parents thing, and 'product B' isn't.
Teenagers like to be different, rebel, and find their own style, Facebook isn't that, so no matter how hard FB tries, they are already tarnished by the fact all their parents use it, therefore it cannot be cool.
The product is easily cloneable...
Sure, but just like Apple, Nike, or Coca Cola, once you have established yourself as the 'it' brand, the brand becomes more important than the product.
I'm not a big user, I only use it to communicate with my kids. And for the teenagers these days, FB is what their parents use and Snapchat is their thing. And as we all know, as a teenager, once something has been established as your' parent's thing', there is no coming back from that.
. In 10 years 99.999999999% of the domains on this TLD will not even involve an African company or individual.
In 10 years there'll probably be as many .africa domains as there are now. .asia TLD was released and the discussion was had about whether we register a bunch of names to secure them. We decided it was a gimmick and didn't bother, and it turns out everyone else must've thought the same thing. You see the odd .asia domain from time to time, but for the size of the continent, and the amount of business they do, they are almost non-existent.
I was working in China when the
That would be I *bless* the rains down in Africa.
Lol, this is my Dad's favourite song, and for the last 30 years we've been singing 'missed' until Iast year when I was learning to play the song and found the real lyrics. I actually think missed sounds better, as the song has a bit of a sombre tone, about longing and missed opportunities, and missing something huge like the rains in a dry continent sort of resonates with that. Blessed just have the same ring to it.