That's not correct. Assets which earn income have value from the income they earn, both current income and future discounted cash flow/earnings.
That isn't intrinsic value though. The value comes from either income or potential income, just like Bitcoin. Bitcoin has value right now because it has made a lot of people rich. It's why people are willing to pay 6000 real dollars to buy one coin. If you owned assets in Enron you might have thought they had value, right up until they didn't. There is nothing different here.
Does Bill's new town plan on having 20 million people in it?
The point is, whatever problem you can think of, money and cheap energy can probably solve it.
Right so like how Barack Obama calls himself black even though he is actually 50:50, so technically he could equally call himself white if he wanted? Sounds legit...
There are several 'recognized' intelligences, and arguably many more.
No there aren't. People will try and tell you that to make themselves sound better than they are, but that's part of the test. Intelligence is logical, abstract problem solving ability. eg Being a body builder isn't physical intelligence, nor is mowing the lawns, grass cutting intelligence.
What is the definition of White and Black? This may sound obvious if you're dealing with pure bred Somalians vs Icelanders, but in the modern world this is no longer clearly cut.
IQ scores are strongly correlated with income and financial success.
IQ is strongly and negatively correlated with incarceration.
IQ is not correlated with happiness.
Doesn't financial success make you more happy than being in prison? I know it makes me happier...
Now stop playing that choking game to pleasure yourself and go get an education you twit.
Yet here you are. Nothing you wrote explains how an F-35 helps in any of those cases. It was just an extended version of 'because they said they need them'.
You've made your point. You don't actually know. You've responded eleven times yet can't figure out how to answer the original question....
For investments such as stocks, intrinsic and future value are based on...
Nothing has intrinsic value. All value is based on expected future demand. That's all there is. This applies to tulips, gold, paper, stocks, land, and virtual currency. Don't pretend it is anything different.
Still your tiny scooter has only a marginally better fuel efficiency than my 10 year old 1.4tonne car with a far larger co-eff of drag.
Well that is horse shit. But keep make stuff up if it makes you feel better. Published figures average about 25mpg for a car, 100mpg for a scooter. So 4 x times more fuel efficient. Plus I'm on the road for only half the time due to not being stuck in traffic so we're looking at 6-8x more efficient overall.
There's an example of desperately clutching at anything that is available when you fundamentally change the units being talked about. We were talking about distance, now you're talking about time.
I'm talking about accurately measuring emissions. Time plays a part in that.
I knew this discussion was going to go nowhere before we even started.
Give up when the facts come out. We know the pattern...
These Nigerians are barely computer literate and barely literate at all.
So where do they get their list of email addresses from? And how do they send bulk email (since any mail relay known for spam would be blacklisted immediately).
There's clearly some smarts in the equation somewhere...
Fuel consumption is not correlated to fuel emissions and environmental damage.
CO2 emissions are, which is why I pointed out the difference. Catalytic converters might help with CO, HC and NOx but CO2 is pretty much proportional to fuel burnt.
Building and maintaining roads actually creates close to zero pollution. The majority of road materials are made of standard rock and then covered in a thick layer of a byproduct from gasoline refining. It is the fuel that creates the road.
Right so the truck that lays the asphalt or concrete doesn't use fossil fuel? The guys who fix roads driving to work don't use any? Transporting materials are all done with zero emission vehicles? You aren't really thinking this through.
While we're at it and given that I've already postulated a scooter is worse than 1 car, why not extend that concept by putting 4 scooters in the same place since you're so freaked out by the environmental consequence of building a road.
Again you're not thinking it through. My commute to work on my bike takes 30 minutes, the same journey in my car takes about 50-60 depending on traffic.
As I said originally, depending on the car or bike this makes a difference, since not all cars or bikes are new, and engine sizes vary considerably. Even if everything else were equal my engine is running half as long as the equivalent car since it's stuck in traffic. So the numbers aren't so clear cut.
It came up scattered among 20 other links backing up my conclusion
I read a bunch and they were mostly vague. A 1000cc sports-bike or 1600cc Harley will emit more than a 125cc scooter. As will a Honda Civic be more efficient than a 6.7litre F250. You also have to distinguish between the emissions as CO2 is far more of a contributor to climate change than NOx, HC or CO.
And mile for mile comparisons don't mean as much when you factor in traffic (ie engine on time)
So my original point still stands. It depends.
"Right of first sale" is not a universal principle, for instance you cannot resell a plane ticket, or a fishing license. In some jurisdictions, scalping is illegal.
When New Zealand hosted the Rugby World Cup in 2011 they did exactly this. For this one event they made reselling tickets illegal to crack down on scalping. If you had extra tickets you could sell them back to the agency at face value and they managed all sales (and resales).
So it can tackled fairly easily, but the people selling the tickets need to want it, and this clearly isn't the case here.
Also, explain to me why Bitcoin will survive but not Dogecoin, Etherium, Litecoin, etc, etc?
Why does Ford survive while Tucker didn't? Some coins aren't designed as well for various applications. eg It's why we have Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold forks. Because some people are trying to improve perceived flaws in the original Bitcoin. Bitcoin may not survive long term, but for now it's the de facto standard.
Why are the arguments for blockchain technology in any way going to mitigate the likelihood that a blockchain future will not include any of the current round of crypto assets?
As above, the future could be Ford or Toyota, but if you were living in 1927 then one of them presents better returns in the short term.
If the US government produced USAcoin and outlawed transactions in existing black market shadow currencies, would their value not plummet?
Just explain how that would happen? Crypto's big appeal is in being able to fly under the regulatory radar. Neither a govt issued CC, nor prohibition would change much (see cocaine or prostitution for other examples of how that turned out).
Of course like anything, BTC could plummet, or rise even further, that is how free markets work.
I do not know what the future will bring for Bitcoin and friends, but it seems to be clear that, currently, they are vehicles for speculators and crooks. And little more.
You have answered your own question. Are speculators and crooks going anywhere soon? The answer to that will help explain if Bitcoin has a future...
If the worth ever goes down, or probably even appears like there's an outside chance of going down below transaction cost then bitcoins become worthless instantly.
Just like anything right? I mean when nickles cost more than 5cents to make they'll stop making them then the world will end. Or....
Let's see who has, or rather had two months ago, the intelligence to sell and get out at the peak before the crash.
Two months? BTC peaked at $7800 3 days ago. Naturally it sank a little after a lofty rise and is at the same price it was two weeks ago when it was at it's then peak. Sure it could crash in the next 2 minutes, or in 20 years. But just wishing it away won't make it happen.
Exactly! BitCoin is the most ridiculous, sketchy snake oil that has ever been peddled. Now we find that it is extremely wasteful of energy as well. The day bubble bursts and everyone's money has evaporated into the cloud can't come too soon.
But while you get angrier, we're getting richer. BCH up 100% in a day!
"Already, it is a man-made environment totally dependent on electricity to power air conditioning and gasoline delivered by vulnerable pipelines."
Those really aren't the issues if photovoltaic cells get as good as they are on course to. Will they even bother to go on the grid for electricity? The real issue is water.
There's a whole ocean of water that can be used for drinking water if you've got a lot of free or cheap electricity. Just add some pipes and a desal plant.
Cheap energy pretty much makes every other problem easy.
"To be fair, wealthy people who were clever in one area -- especially tech -- often think they know a lot about everything,"
Unlike say columnists?
C'mon, I'm sure Bill didn't just smoke a blunt and decide to go build a new city in the desert. You can bet there's a ton of experts involved who have already thought about whatever it is Mr Columnist or Mr Forum poster thinks and then some. Because that's the thing with smart people, they think about all the things you think about, plus some more.
Why did we need this ignorant opinion in the summary? It only serves to dumb down the real story which could be something really interesting.
you still don't understand the difference in mission or capabilities between helicopters and STOVL stealth jets do you junior?
I see you avoided answering the question yet again. Let's me go waaaayyy back to the OP: "And you need a STOVL jet for what exactly?"
Let me spell that out: What scenario is playing out right now that requires an F35?
And I'll reiterate since you've had 10 attempts at this and still failed to figure it out: "Look at the F35. Then look at the current military requirements, the theaters the US military is fighting in, the enemies it is fighting, the equipment of the US troops and that of their enemies, the theaters of war they're deployed to and the (stated and real) military goals they pursue. Then tell me with a straight face that this plane makes in ANY way sense."
Preferably you can come up with an answer less infantile than "Because they need them" but I won't hold my breath....
Roadbed damage is proportional to the 5th power of axle pressure(weight) and the 2nd power of speed. 18 wheelers pay less than 1% of the maintenance costs they incur.
Which is why a ride a scooter. So why should my tax dollars subsidize your hobby? :)
>Like Real Estate and the Tech Boom etc. Oh wait...
Likewise, I can make a decent argument why blockchain currencies aren't valueless. But I can also make a pretty decent argument why blockchain currencies are probably overvalued and being pushed to unsustainable levels by speculation.
Let's hear it then. I don't know either way, but what I do know is how supply and demand work, and hype curves, and my gut tells me we aren't even half way there.
Right now, it's only finance and tech nerds getting into CC, which is less than 1% of the market. When my mum starts talking Bitcoin then I'll get more cautious about saturation, but I think this thing still has a lot of legs left.
This is my opinion, and I'm known to wrong quite a lot. I accept that, but I don't accept it's bubble just because someone people can't believe how much it's worth.
In other news BCC doubled in price since my last post:)
A bubble is the pricing of an asset beyond its reasonable intrinsic or future expected value (earnings),
How do you determine the intrinsic value of something? How do you know what the future expected value is?
Bubble is an easy word to thrown around for those who missed out on the easy money, but the truth is that only time will tell. If you are so sure, short it and you'll be rich.
Slashdot Mirror
That's not correct. Assets which earn income have value from the income they earn, both current income and future discounted cash flow/earnings.
That isn't intrinsic value though. The value comes from either income or potential income, just like Bitcoin. Bitcoin has value right now because it has made a lot of people rich. It's why people are willing to pay 6000 real dollars to buy one coin. If you owned assets in Enron you might have thought they had value, right up until they didn't. There is nothing different here.
Does your average New Yorker use 100 gallons of a petrol per day?
Does Bill's new town plan on having 20 million people in it?
The point is, whatever problem you can think of, money and cheap energy can probably solve it.
In this case, self-identified.
Right so like how Barack Obama calls himself black even though he is actually 50:50, so technically he could equally call himself white if he wanted? Sounds legit...
There are several 'recognized' intelligences, and arguably many more.
No there aren't. People will try and tell you that to make themselves sound better than they are, but that's part of the test. Intelligence is logical, abstract problem solving ability. eg Being a body builder isn't physical intelligence, nor is mowing the lawns, grass cutting intelligence.
15-16 points, between US whites and blacks
What is the definition of White and Black? This may sound obvious if you're dealing with pure bred Somalians vs Icelanders, but in the modern world this is no longer clearly cut.
IQ scores are strongly correlated with income and financial success.
IQ is strongly and negatively correlated with incarceration.
IQ is not correlated with happiness.
Doesn't financial success make you more happy than being in prison? I know it makes me happier...
Now stop playing that choking game to pleasure yourself and go get an education you twit.
Yet here you are. Nothing you wrote explains how an F-35 helps in any of those cases. It was just an extended version of 'because they said they need them'.
You've made your point. You don't actually know. You've responded eleven times yet can't figure out how to answer the original question....
Not near Arizona.
What is you definition of 'near'? There's no oil wells near New York yet someone built petrol stations there...
For investments such as stocks, intrinsic and future value are based on...
Nothing has intrinsic value. All value is based on expected future demand. That's all there is. This applies to tulips, gold, paper, stocks, land, and virtual currency. Don't pretend it is anything different.
Still your tiny scooter has only a marginally better fuel efficiency than my 10 year old 1.4tonne car with a far larger co-eff of drag.
Well that is horse shit. But keep make stuff up if it makes you feel better. Published figures average about 25mpg for a car, 100mpg for a scooter. So 4 x times more fuel efficient. Plus I'm on the road for only half the time due to not being stuck in traffic so we're looking at 6-8x more efficient overall.
There's an example of desperately clutching at anything that is available when you fundamentally change the units being talked about. We were talking about distance, now you're talking about time.
I'm talking about accurately measuring emissions. Time plays a part in that.
I knew this discussion was going to go nowhere before we even started.
Give up when the facts come out. We know the pattern...
I just checked, Arizona is landlocked. If desalination was the plan, surely it would make sense to move the project closer to the ocean?
Because pipes aren't a thing?
Pipes are also cheaper than ocean front real estate.
These Nigerians are barely computer literate and barely literate at all.
So where do they get their list of email addresses from? And how do they send bulk email (since any mail relay known for spam would be blacklisted immediately).
There's clearly some smarts in the equation somewhere...
Fuel consumption is not correlated to fuel emissions and environmental damage.
CO2 emissions are, which is why I pointed out the difference. Catalytic converters might help with CO, HC and NOx but CO2 is pretty much proportional to fuel burnt.
Building and maintaining roads actually creates close to zero pollution. The majority of road materials are made of standard rock and then covered in a thick layer of a byproduct from gasoline refining. It is the fuel that creates the road.
Right so the truck that lays the asphalt or concrete doesn't use fossil fuel? The guys who fix roads driving to work don't use any? Transporting materials are all done with zero emission vehicles? You aren't really thinking this through.
While we're at it and given that I've already postulated a scooter is worse than 1 car, why not extend that concept by putting 4 scooters in the same place since you're so freaked out by the environmental consequence of building a road.
Again you're not thinking it through. My commute to work on my bike takes 30 minutes, the same journey in my car takes about 50-60 depending on traffic.
As I said originally, depending on the car or bike this makes a difference, since not all cars or bikes are new, and engine sizes vary considerably. Even if everything else were equal my engine is running half as long as the equivalent car since it's stuck in traffic. So the numbers aren't so clear cut.
It came up scattered among 20 other links backing up my conclusion
I read a bunch and they were mostly vague. A 1000cc sports-bike or 1600cc Harley will emit more than a 125cc scooter. As will a Honda Civic be more efficient than a 6.7litre F250. You also have to distinguish between the emissions as CO2 is far more of a contributor to climate change than NOx, HC or CO.
And mile for mile comparisons don't mean as much when you factor in traffic (ie engine on time) So my original point still stands. It depends.
"Right of first sale" is not a universal principle, for instance you cannot resell a plane ticket, or a fishing license. In some jurisdictions, scalping is illegal.
When New Zealand hosted the Rugby World Cup in 2011 they did exactly this. For this one event they made reselling tickets illegal to crack down on scalping. If you had extra tickets you could sell them back to the agency at face value and they managed all sales (and resales).
So it can tackled fairly easily, but the people selling the tickets need to want it, and this clearly isn't the case here.
Also, explain to me why Bitcoin will survive but not Dogecoin, Etherium, Litecoin, etc, etc?
Why does Ford survive while Tucker didn't? Some coins aren't designed as well for various applications. eg It's why we have Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold forks. Because some people are trying to improve perceived flaws in the original Bitcoin. Bitcoin may not survive long term, but for now it's the de facto standard.
Why are the arguments for blockchain technology in any way going to mitigate the likelihood that a blockchain future will not include any of the current round of crypto assets?
As above, the future could be Ford or Toyota, but if you were living in 1927 then one of them presents better returns in the short term.
If the US government produced USAcoin and outlawed transactions in existing black market shadow currencies, would their value not plummet?
Just explain how that would happen? Crypto's big appeal is in being able to fly under the regulatory radar. Neither a govt issued CC, nor prohibition would change much (see cocaine or prostitution for other examples of how that turned out).
Of course like anything, BTC could plummet, or rise even further, that is how free markets work.
I do not know what the future will bring for Bitcoin and friends, but it seems to be clear that, currently, they are vehicles for speculators and crooks. And little more.
You have answered your own question. Are speculators and crooks going anywhere soon? The answer to that will help explain if Bitcoin has a future...
If the worth ever goes down, or probably even appears like there's an outside chance of going down below transaction cost then bitcoins become worthless instantly.
Just like anything right? I mean when nickles cost more than 5cents to make they'll stop making them then the world will end. Or....
Let's see who has, or rather had two months ago, the intelligence to sell and get out at the peak before the crash.
Two months? BTC peaked at $7800 3 days ago. Naturally it sank a little after a lofty rise and is at the same price it was two weeks ago when it was at it's then peak. Sure it could crash in the next 2 minutes, or in 20 years. But just wishing it away won't make it happen.
Exactly! BitCoin is the most ridiculous, sketchy snake oil that has ever been peddled. Now we find that it is extremely wasteful of energy as well. The day bubble bursts and everyone's money has evaporated into the cloud can't come too soon.
But while you get angrier, we're getting richer. BCH up 100% in a day!
"Already, it is a man-made environment totally dependent on electricity to power air conditioning and gasoline delivered by vulnerable pipelines."
Those really aren't the issues if photovoltaic cells get as good as they are on course to. Will they even bother to go on the grid for electricity? The real issue is water.
There's a whole ocean of water that can be used for drinking water if you've got a lot of free or cheap electricity. Just add some pipes and a desal plant.
Cheap energy pretty much makes every other problem easy.
"To be fair, wealthy people who were clever in one area -- especially tech -- often think they know a lot about everything,"
Unlike say columnists?
C'mon, I'm sure Bill didn't just smoke a blunt and decide to go build a new city in the desert. You can bet there's a ton of experts involved who have already thought about whatever it is Mr Columnist or Mr Forum poster thinks and then some. Because that's the thing with smart people, they think about all the things you think about, plus some more.
Why did we need this ignorant opinion in the summary? It only serves to dumb down the real story which could be something really interesting.
you still don't understand the difference in mission or capabilities between helicopters and STOVL stealth jets do you junior?
I see you avoided answering the question yet again. Let's me go waaaayyy back to the OP: "And you need a STOVL jet for what exactly?"
Let me spell that out: What scenario is playing out right now that requires an F35?
And I'll reiterate since you've had 10 attempts at this and still failed to figure it out: "Look at the F35. Then look at the current military requirements, the theaters the US military is fighting in, the enemies it is fighting, the equipment of the US troops and that of their enemies, the theaters of war they're deployed to and the (stated and real) military goals they pursue. Then tell me with a straight face that this plane makes in ANY way sense."
Preferably you can come up with an answer less infantile than "Because they need them" but I won't hold my breath....
Roadbed damage is proportional to the 5th power of axle pressure(weight) and the 2nd power of speed. 18 wheelers pay less than 1% of the maintenance costs they incur.
Which is why a ride a scooter. So why should my tax dollars subsidize your hobby?
:)
>Like Real Estate and the Tech Boom etc. Oh wait... Likewise, I can make a decent argument why blockchain currencies aren't valueless. But I can also make a pretty decent argument why blockchain currencies are probably overvalued and being pushed to unsustainable levels by speculation.
Let's hear it then. I don't know either way, but what I do know is how supply and demand work, and hype curves, and my gut tells me we aren't even half way there.
:)
Right now, it's only finance and tech nerds getting into CC, which is less than 1% of the market. When my mum starts talking Bitcoin then I'll get more cautious about saturation, but I think this thing still has a lot of legs left.
This is my opinion, and I'm known to wrong quite a lot. I accept that, but I don't accept it's bubble just because someone people can't believe how much it's worth.
In other news BCC doubled in price since my last post
But shouldn't the autonomous vehicle stop anyway?
Yes, and that's my point. What sort of experience is that when the car is stopping all the time for no real reason?
A bubble is the pricing of an asset beyond its reasonable intrinsic or future expected value (earnings),
How do you determine the intrinsic value of something? How do you know what the future expected value is?
Bubble is an easy word to thrown around for those who missed out on the easy money, but the truth is that only time will tell. If you are so sure, short it and you'll be rich.