Have you been watching the X Files too much? Some compared the Kennedy adminsitration to Camelot. Well, it is clear it is becoming more like King Arthur in other ways too. Long ago, in post-Roman Britain, there was likely a leader named Arturus or something like that. Over the years, legend accumulated on his story, legend that some think is fact.
The JFK assassination is the same way. A lot of fiction has been added, and more and more people believe a body of legend made from whole cloth.
"Chances are just unavoidably high there were two or three snipers involved"
Actually, there is only evidence of one. The others are part of a growing team of phantoms created from the fevre dreams of those who get the chills when they see the Illimunati Pyramid on the dollar bill. Like the fictional Merlin who was added to the Arthur tale, we have bogeys popping up on grassy knolls. There is no indications of any conspiracy, or involvement by anyone other than Oswald. We already know who was behind it, and have for many years. However, like with Merlin and King Arthur, I guess it is fun to believe, isn't it?
"because the establishment didn't want to know or want us to know."
Obviously, this must be the same "establishment" that murders the inventors who made the 400 MPG carburetor, and has hushed up all the alien craft landing in the western desert...
"What is it inside your head that makes you so desperate to believe everything your government tells you"
I don't believe the government. However, I believe Art Bell even less.
" hate to break it to you but the period when Nixon and Hoover were spying on everyone who opposed them was one of the darker hours for Democracy"
It is like you had a big speech bashing me for saying how good the US government was in the 1960s all prepared. You launched it as soon as I replied. You apparently did not bother to read my reply, in which I spoke of Hoover spying on everyone, and spoke of "persecution" by the government.
"You were saying America doesn't persecute its political dissidents, well it obviously does"
Something else you would not have said if you had read what I had written, when I wrote also of persecution of political dissidents. In fact, I think I used the word "persecute" to describe it before you did!
"I doubt you will see the Chicago Seven today because everyone today is afraid they would be arrested"
"If the same thing happened today they might well be arrested and held indefinitely, on terrorism charges"
Has this happened to Michael Moore? Or to any actual dissident?
At last some disagreement. More than halfway through your mistaken rant, you come to this. Michael Moore, George Soros, and many others dissent all over the media, quite eloquently, with no fear of torture. Perhaps you think that Moore is a wimp compared to the Chicago 7. I don't. He is loud, he is eloquent, and he does not flinch from sticking to GWB.
"You didn't see any real protests at the conventions this year though there is massive rage at the current government, why because everyone is afraid of the current government."
If you didn't see any, your head was in a box on a shelf somewhere. Tens of thousands took to the streets to protest the Republicans in New York. There were also other huge protests all during 2004 (and 2003) at other times to commemorate/condemn certain events. Some of these were of record size. I suspect that more protested the Republicans in 2004 than protested the Democrats back in 1968 (Chicago 7). I could be wrong on this, however.
"The fact that the U.S. is denying people, including American citizens due process and the right to protest"
Have you ever read the 1st Amendement? It includes a right to assemble. This right still applies even to Republicans and Nazis. Many of the protest organizers declared that they want to "shut down" the convention. That is, they wanted to deny the Republicans the right to assemble. The poorly named "free speech" zones and other policies allowed massive protests to take place anyway: protecting both the right to assemble and the right to free speech. The same intolerance for the 1st Amendment also was exhibited by protesters at the WTO in Seattle a few years ago. They crosseed the line when they tried to "shut down" the peaceful assembly of their opponents. I respect your right to say something, but I don't respect your right to shut someone up using violence and intimidation.
What is lacking in some is the idea that "free speech is for me, but not for you". They wanted to say what they wanted to say, but wanted to deny the Republicans the right to assemble and say what they want at their convention. Not only does this toss the 1st Amendment in the gutter, it is outright rude.
Your earlier claim, several parents up, was that dissent is not allowed in America. Do you have any examples of this?
"You have no more of a clue who really killed them than I do"
I know who killed all 3. The names of the men are a matter of public record. As is who else was (and more importantly was NOT) involved. It is well known.
"MLK in particular was under a massive assault from J. Edgar Hoover when he was alive, there is no conspiracy theory needed"
If Hoover assassinated everyone he spied on, it is a wonder anyone survived the 1960s! I'm sorry, your case looks rather weak on this one. FBI spying != FBI assassination.
"The fact you think its an open an shut case is more than a little naive"
The case was closed years ago. No phony "Elvis on a grassy knoll in a UFO" theories have ever had any validity or evidence.
"Maybe you should learn. They went to Chicago in 1968 to protest the Vietnam War at the Democratic convention"
I know about the Chicago Seven. However, where are they now? Aren't most of them alive, successful, and dissenting like hell (Except for Abbie, know of)
"I ask you to find one study that shows" Dont need to"
You made a point that Michael Moore and his fellow dissenters helped Bush's election more than they hurt it. I asked for evidence. You say "none needed". My friend, your case in this part looks rather weak.
If anything, there is strong evidence that Moore did Bush a world of hurt: "Fahrenheit 9-11" was very convincing, and it had a huge audience.
Also, back to the original point. You (or someone else?) said that the US was now cracking down on dissent. By bringing Nader and the Chicago 7 into it, you are providing evidence contrary to that idea: they were persecuted long before (as you described) but have free reign now.
"Whatever else it was, the government of Czar Nicholas II was anything but democratic"
It is a popular misperception that "Lenin overthrew the Czar". I used to have it myself. Then I learned that, at this time in history, the Czar was long since overthrown, and it was a new democratic government that Lenin overthrew. If you are forced to summarize the entire Russian revolution in 4 words, you might say "Lenin overthrew the Czar", but once you look at the details, you will see it is not true.
"All of those people are also rich and famous enough they aren't really at the mercy of the system"
Michael Moore started out as a nobody. He got rich and famous because he engaged in head-on attacks with capitalists and conservatives. Despite ABC, Maher's career has only benefited from his stances.
"Daniel Ellsberg, Martin Luther King Jr., the Chicago Seven, JFK, RFK and Ralph Nader are better example of people who challenged the powers that be and suffered various forms of retribution"
Careful that you don't tread off the deep end. JFK, RFK, and MLK were killed by nuts, not the elites. Nader was not killed by anyone (quite thankfully) and he has enough power that he was able to "spoil a win" for GWB in the first election. He has been at his peak of power recently, only suffering "retribution" of those who didn't want him to "spoil one for the W" again. This is the Left, by the way. I don't know much about the Chicago 7, except for Tom Hayden, who is quite successful and powerful in his quiet way.
"I think they ended up being used by the people they hate and did more harm than good to their cause"
That is true for Nader with his "Spoil one for the W" campaigns. However, it is not true for the others. I ask you to find one study that shows "I voted for Bush because I hate Michael Moore" was a factor in the election.
"He has modeled Mision Robinson, Venzuela's adult literacy campaign, on the Cuban literacy program of the early '60s that reduced adult"
Little reported is that Castro inherited a very high literacy rate from the previous Cuban governments. He did not make Cuba literate: it already was. That is all said and good. However, the value of literacy is reduced somewhat when the government has so many bans on what you can print or read.
Bastista was bad, but certainly not worth punishing Cuba by imposing a totalitarian dictatorship over it.
"In America if you don't go along with the system you run a substantial risk of unemployment, homelessness, death on the streets, or being thrown in prison via..."
I see. You are right. Michael Moore dared to question the US government. As a result, he is rail thin, impoverished, and imprisoned. Al Franken and Bill Maher also lost their careers (no-one remembers who they are anymore) after they criticized the US.
And the Dixie Chicks? Never mind that their sales increased after they insulted GWB. The reason they appeared nude on the cover of a magazine is that they can't afford clothes anymore.
I wish it were another way. I check the nonfiction bestseller lists of 2004 and find nothing but books that say how wonderful Bush and US foreign policy are. There is no dissent. At all.
"A handful of plutocrats and organized criminals pretty much looted all the assets of the country"
You are describing exactly what happened when Lenin overthrow a democratic government and seized control of old Russia.
"Capitalism is very good at some things but it has a really nasty dark side, that most American's choose to overlook."
Fact it, Russia is a lot better off now. In the glory days of the communists, hundreds of thousands on average died each year due to starvation and being executed by the leaders. This is very low right now. Even what is going on in Chechnya is nothing compared to the massive casualties in the wars of Lenin, Stalin, Brezhnev, and others.
"All in all you just wish places like Cuba and Venezuela could keep all the good parts of Socialism without the repression"
Then you blame the oppression on the US. I have news for you: the lack of human rights in Cuba is a policy engineered in Havana, not Washington.
"the government does have to repress to keep from being overthrown"
This is not so. Rather, it is an excuse dictators use all the time. You can be 100% certain they'd still be oppressing even if there was not a bogeyman to blame.
"and people internally who want to topple your government, and loot and pillage to get rich..."
That is what Castro did. He is worth billions now, and it is pretty much illegal for the average Cuban to rise above poverty.
Sounds like I angered you by comparing one tinhorn dictator to another. Well, if they aren't two peas in a pod, how come Chavez is one of those coming out in support of his North Korean counterpart?
"You... completely ignore the entire history of the last three years in Venezuela"
I was talking about the oppression of the current government there. I did not "ignore" the coup history. It was left out because the coup plotters and alternative leaders are not in power, and are not relevant at all to the discussion.
"You ignore Bush's role in the coup"
Why even bring it up when we are talking about the actions of the existing govermment in the country?
"You just carry your own reality around with you in a self-contained bubble? "
Are you "trolling", or what? Or are you trying to say that anything the current Venezuelan government does to violate human rights is OK because of Bush's coup? Or are you just trying to change the subject?
I don't think that Venezeula is making choices here. The "President" won the recent referendum by ordering physical assaults against opponents. (At least he did not use dioxin poisoning!) He has announced intent to wipe out the grassroots labor union movement and to put the press under government control. It is overall not a very "open source" situation, nor it is a situation in which the Venezuelans are making choices. Chavez views Fidel Castro as his political mentor. This is not conducive to democracy.
Exactly. An initial step toward more openness and freedom does not matter much when the president is dedicated toward making his country just like one of the most totalitarian dictatorships in the world.
Does open vs closed source really matter when the government ends up owning and controlling all the software?
This is a positive development. However, as President Chavez has stated that he plans to model Venezuela after Castro's Cuba, in the end this won't amount to software developer/user freedom or efficiency.
From: admin@netcrapht.com
To: slashdottroll@hawtmail.com
Date: 2004/12/28
Re: We've announcted a new anti-Phishing control bar for your browser! To take advantage of this amazing free offer, just login here and register using your name and Bank One check number! Don't delay. You will also be eligible for a free u-n-i-v-e-r-s-i-t-y diploma!
It is official; Netcraft confirms: Phishing is dying.
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered phishing community when IDC confirmed that successful phishing attempts have dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all phish-mails sent out. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that phishing has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Phishing is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive scam list.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict phishing's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Phishing faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for phishing because phishing is dying. Things are looking very bad for phishing. As many of us are already aware, phishing continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of fish-blood.
CitiBank phishes are the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core spam-relays. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time phishmeisters developers Gordon "Bassmaster" Hubble and Frank "Fifth Third" Blackman only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Phishing is dying.
"Besides, the current law of US is that it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of stuff like nationality or race in employing folks(or even creating a church or other association). This isn't anything "voluntary"-your only choice is to leave the US."
It is perfectly voluntary whether or not a company decides to contract with a factory in South Carolina vs one in Juarez. It is perfectly voluntary whether or not a car buyer wants to buy a Honda built in Ohio vs a Ford built in Mexico.
You are instead referring to the legality of discrimination against Americans. This is pretty much nonapplicable to what we are discussing (unless you really are defending such discrimination!).
"Now, if you want an example of critically analyzing the effects of immigration, look at this piece I did a while back"
I looked. It contains a classic example of the causation fallacy (believing that if A and B both happen, A causes B).
Specifically, the parts saying that immigration wrecked California's bond rating. You also use as support a Pat Buchanan article that says that having too much ethnic diversity wrecks the economy. I suggest checking this link about California's improving bond rating. Guess what? It is improving because of budget policies of the new administration. It is not improving because of a crackdown on immigration or on ethnic diversity. There has been no crackdown.
The "problem" of immigration still plagues California, and the bond rating is improving. Ironically, it is improving under the administration of an immigrant governor.. Blaming the "outsider" for problems they have nothing to do with is older than civilization. Look at Salem, Mass. to see what this can lead to.
"More precisely, 55% of the American public in this poll indicated a desire for lower levels of legal immigration...The reasons here are simple"
The reasons are anything but simple. There are many reasons, from false perceptions of economic harm to security reasons. If "reducing the flow" means removing the undesirables from the "incoming" flow, I'd be voting to reduce.
"There is a fundamental question here: should small, powerful interests be able to shape policy against the will of the public?"
The "will" you are referring to is something that is shown in the poll to be half the people. Not a mandate of any kind.
Slashdot Mirror
I agree on general principle. However, if we want to decrease the trade defecits, we need to "build stuff better".
You are talking to R. Burns, correct? If not, let me know more.
Have you been watching the X Files too much? Some compared the Kennedy adminsitration to Camelot. Well, it is clear it is becoming more like King Arthur in other ways too. Long ago, in post-Roman Britain, there was likely a leader named Arturus or something like that. Over the years, legend accumulated on his story, legend that some think is fact.
The JFK assassination is the same way. A lot of fiction has been added, and more and more people believe a body of legend made from whole cloth.
"Chances are just unavoidably high there were two or three snipers involved"
Actually, there is only evidence of one. The others are part of a growing team of phantoms created from the fevre dreams of those who get the chills when they see the Illimunati Pyramid on the dollar bill. Like the fictional Merlin who was added to the Arthur tale, we have bogeys popping up on grassy knolls. There is no indications of any conspiracy, or involvement by anyone other than Oswald. We already know who was behind it, and have for many years. However, like with Merlin and King Arthur, I guess it is fun to believe, isn't it?
"because the establishment didn't want to know or want us to know."
Obviously, this must be the same "establishment" that murders the inventors who made the 400 MPG carburetor, and has hushed up all the alien craft landing in the western desert...
"What is it inside your head that makes you so desperate to believe everything your government tells you"
I don't believe the government. However, I believe Art Bell even less.
It is like you had a big speech bashing me for saying how good the US government was in the 1960s all prepared. You launched it as soon as I replied. You apparently did not bother to read my reply, in which I spoke of Hoover spying on everyone, and spoke of "persecution" by the government.
"You were saying America doesn't persecute its political dissidents, well it obviously does"
Something else you would not have said if you had read what I had written, when I wrote also of persecution of political dissidents. In fact, I think I used the word "persecute" to describe it before you did!
"I doubt you will see the Chicago Seven today because everyone today is afraid they would be arrested"
"If the same thing happened today they might well be arrested and held indefinitely, on terrorism charges"
Has this happened to Michael Moore? Or to any actual dissident?
At last some disagreement. More than halfway through your mistaken rant, you come to this. Michael Moore, George Soros, and many others dissent all over the media, quite eloquently, with no fear of torture. Perhaps you think that Moore is a wimp compared to the Chicago 7. I don't. He is loud, he is eloquent, and he does not flinch from sticking to GWB.
"You didn't see any real protests at the conventions this year though there is massive rage at the current government, why because everyone is afraid of the current government."
If you didn't see any, your head was in a box on a shelf somewhere. Tens of thousands took to the streets to protest the Republicans in New York. There were also other huge protests all during 2004 (and 2003) at other times to commemorate/condemn certain events. Some of these were of record size. I suspect that more protested the Republicans in 2004 than protested the Democrats back in 1968 (Chicago 7). I could be wrong on this, however.
"The fact that the U.S. is denying people, including American citizens due process and the right to protest"
Have you ever read the 1st Amendement? It includes a right to assemble. This right still applies even to Republicans and Nazis. Many of the protest organizers declared that they want to "shut down" the convention. That is, they wanted to deny the Republicans the right to assemble. The poorly named "free speech" zones and other policies allowed massive protests to take place anyway: protecting both the right to assemble and the right to free speech. The same intolerance for the 1st Amendment also was exhibited by protesters at the WTO in Seattle a few years ago. They crosseed the line when they tried to "shut down" the peaceful assembly of their opponents. I respect your right to say something, but I don't respect your right to shut someone up using violence and intimidation.
What is lacking in some is the idea that "free speech is for me, but not for you". They wanted to say what they wanted to say, but wanted to deny the Republicans the right to assemble and say what they want at their convention. Not only does this toss the 1st Amendment in the gutter, it is outright rude.
Your earlier claim, several parents up, was that dissent is not allowed in America. Do you have any examples of this?
I know who killed all 3. The names of the men are a matter of public record. As is who else was (and more importantly was NOT) involved. It is well known.
"MLK in particular was under a massive assault from J. Edgar Hoover when he was alive, there is no conspiracy theory needed"
If Hoover assassinated everyone he spied on, it is a wonder anyone survived the 1960s! I'm sorry, your case looks rather weak on this one. FBI spying != FBI assassination.
"The fact you think its an open an shut case is more than a little naive"
The case was closed years ago. No phony "Elvis on a grassy knoll in a UFO" theories have ever had any validity or evidence.
"Maybe you should learn. They went to Chicago in 1968 to protest the Vietnam War at the Democratic convention"
I know about the Chicago Seven. However, where are they now? Aren't most of them alive, successful, and dissenting like hell (Except for Abbie, know of)
"I ask you to find one study that shows" Dont need to"
You made a point that Michael Moore and his fellow dissenters helped Bush's election more than they hurt it. I asked for evidence. You say "none needed". My friend, your case in this part looks rather weak.
If anything, there is strong evidence that Moore did Bush a world of hurt: "Fahrenheit 9-11" was very convincing, and it had a huge audience.
Also, back to the original point. You (or someone else?) said that the US was now cracking down on dissent. By bringing Nader and the Chicago 7 into it, you are providing evidence contrary to that idea: they were persecuted long before (as you described) but have free reign now.
It is a popular misperception that "Lenin overthrew the Czar". I used to have it myself. Then I learned that, at this time in history, the Czar was long since overthrown, and it was a new democratic government that Lenin overthrew. If you are forced to summarize the entire Russian revolution in 4 words, you might say "Lenin overthrew the Czar", but once you look at the details, you will see it is not true.
Michael Moore started out as a nobody. He got rich and famous because he engaged in head-on attacks with capitalists and conservatives. Despite ABC, Maher's career has only benefited from his stances.
"Daniel Ellsberg, Martin Luther King Jr., the Chicago Seven, JFK, RFK and Ralph Nader are better example of people who challenged the powers that be and suffered various forms of retribution"
Careful that you don't tread off the deep end. JFK, RFK, and MLK were killed by nuts, not the elites. Nader was not killed by anyone (quite thankfully) and he has enough power that he was able to "spoil a win" for GWB in the first election. He has been at his peak of power recently, only suffering "retribution" of those who didn't want him to "spoil one for the W" again. This is the Left, by the way. I don't know much about the Chicago 7, except for Tom Hayden, who is quite successful and powerful in his quiet way.
"I think they ended up being used by the people they hate and did more harm than good to their cause"
That is true for Nader with his "Spoil one for the W" campaigns. However, it is not true for the others. I ask you to find one study that shows "I voted for Bush because I hate Michael Moore" was a factor in the election.
Little reported is that Castro inherited a very high literacy rate from the previous Cuban governments. He did not make Cuba literate: it already was. That is all said and good. However, the value of literacy is reduced somewhat when the government has so many bans on what you can print or read.
Bastista was bad, but certainly not worth punishing Cuba by imposing a totalitarian dictatorship over it.
I see. You are right. Michael Moore dared to question the US government. As a result, he is rail thin, impoverished, and imprisoned. Al Franken and Bill Maher also lost their careers (no-one remembers who they are anymore) after they criticized the US.
And the Dixie Chicks? Never mind that their sales increased after they insulted GWB. The reason they appeared nude on the cover of a magazine is that they can't afford clothes anymore.
I wish it were another way. I check the nonfiction bestseller lists of 2004 and find nothing but books that say how wonderful Bush and US foreign policy are. There is no dissent. At all.
You are describing exactly what happened when Lenin overthrow a democratic government and seized control of old Russia.
"Capitalism is very good at some things but it has a really nasty dark side, that most American's choose to overlook."
Fact it, Russia is a lot better off now. In the glory days of the communists, hundreds of thousands on average died each year due to starvation and being executed by the leaders. This is very low right now. Even what is going on in Chechnya is nothing compared to the massive casualties in the wars of Lenin, Stalin, Brezhnev, and others.
"All in all you just wish places like Cuba and Venezuela could keep all the good parts of Socialism without the repression"
Then you blame the oppression on the US. I have news for you: the lack of human rights in Cuba is a policy engineered in Havana, not Washington.
"the government does have to repress to keep from being overthrown"
This is not so. Rather, it is an excuse dictators use all the time. You can be 100% certain they'd still be oppressing even if there was not a bogeyman to blame.
"and people internally who want to topple your government, and loot and pillage to get rich..."
That is what Castro did. He is worth billions now, and it is pretty much illegal for the average Cuban to rise above poverty.
Sounds like I angered you by comparing one tinhorn dictator to another. Well, if they aren't two peas in a pod, how come Chavez is one of those coming out in support of his North Korean counterpart?
I was talking about the oppression of the current government there. I did not "ignore" the coup history. It was left out because the coup plotters and alternative leaders are not in power, and are not relevant at all to the discussion.
"You ignore Bush's role in the coup"
Why even bring it up when we are talking about the actions of the existing govermment in the country?
"You just carry your own reality around with you in a self-contained bubble? " Are you "trolling", or what? Or are you trying to say that anything the current Venezuelan government does to violate human rights is OK because of Bush's coup? Or are you just trying to change the subject?
I don't think that Venezeula is making choices here. The "President" won the recent referendum by ordering physical assaults against opponents. (At least he did not use dioxin poisoning!) He has announced intent to wipe out the grassroots labor union movement and to put the press under government control. It is overall not a very "open source" situation, nor it is a situation in which the Venezuelans are making choices. Chavez views Fidel Castro as his political mentor. This is not conducive to democracy.
Tomorrow on Slashdot: a warm and fuzzy article about the North Korean dictator being enlightened because he uses Firefox.
Does open vs closed source really matter when the government ends up owning and controlling all the software?
This is a positive development. However, as President Chavez has stated that he plans to model Venezuela after Castro's Cuba, in the end this won't amount to software developer/user freedom or efficiency.
I'm busy right now downloading one of those 78-hour-long audio files on my 28.8K modem.
Obviously, computer crash victims complain about the airline long and loud. Plane crash victims tend to be silent.
At last the struggle to list Dr Mario as an educational expense is over!
From: admin@netcrapht.com
To: slashdottroll@hawtmail.com
Date: 2004/12/28
Re: We've announcted a new anti-Phishing control bar for your browser! To take advantage of this amazing free offer, just login here and register using your name and Bank One check number! Don't delay. You will also be eligible for a free u-n-i-v-e-r-s-i-t-y diploma!
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered phishing community when IDC confirmed that successful phishing attempts have dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all phish-mails sent out. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that phishing has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Phishing is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive scam list.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict phishing's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Phishing faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for phishing because phishing is dying. Things are looking very bad for phishing. As many of us are already aware, phishing continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of fish-blood.
CitiBank phishes are the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core spam-relays. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time phishmeisters developers Gordon "Bassmaster" Hubble and Frank "Fifth Third" Blackman only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Phishing is dying.
Fact: Phishing is dying
It is perfectly voluntary whether or not a company decides to contract with a factory in South Carolina vs one in Juarez. It is perfectly voluntary whether or not a car buyer wants to buy a Honda built in Ohio vs a Ford built in Mexico.
You are instead referring to the legality of discrimination against Americans. This is pretty much nonapplicable to what we are discussing (unless you really are defending such discrimination!).
I looked. It contains a classic example of the causation fallacy (believing that if A and B both happen, A causes B).
Specifically, the parts saying that immigration wrecked California's bond rating. You also use as support a Pat Buchanan article that says that having too much ethnic diversity wrecks the economy. I suggest checking this link about California's improving bond rating. Guess what? It is improving because of budget policies of the new administration. It is not improving because of a crackdown on immigration or on ethnic diversity. There has been no crackdown.
The "problem" of immigration still plagues California, and the bond rating is improving. Ironically, it is improving under the administration of an immigrant governor.. Blaming the "outsider" for problems they have nothing to do with is older than civilization. Look at Salem, Mass. to see what this can lead to.
The reasons are anything but simple. There are many reasons, from false perceptions of economic harm to security reasons. If "reducing the flow" means removing the undesirables from the "incoming" flow, I'd be voting to reduce.
"There is a fundamental question here: should small, powerful interests be able to shape policy against the will of the public?"
The "will" you are referring to is something that is shown in the poll to be half the people. Not a mandate of any kind.
Mod 'em up anyway. Just because. "Airplane II" had so many great gags that anyone should be proud to have their name on it:
the automatic doors that go SHH when you go SHH at them.
talking to Shatner on the viewscreen which turns out to be a window in a door
keeping with current trends, elevator music in the near future will be deafening.
the aforementioned kid videogame scene.