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FBI Investigating Laser Beams Pointed at Aircraft
sakshale writes "In an earlier discussion about Laser Pistols, many people argued about the concept of using them to target pilots of airliners. Apparently the FBI is investigating incidents in Cleveland and Colorado Springs. They issued a warning on December 14th."
Given some time, and--right or wrong--somebody will attempt to pile on the regulations and we can forget about buying green lasers from ThinkGeek or anyplace else.
Sigs cause cancer.
So fitting. I was blinded by the laser
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
By sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads...
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
CmdrTaco always regretted his decision to stare into the beam with his remaining good eye.
Well if people would put tops to their shark tanks we wouldn't be having this problem, now would we?
...shit.
/digs a hole in the backyard
Some good links from FreeRepublic.
Seems like Dr. Evil and his "laser beam" are finally starting to do their evil deeds!
Engineering and the Ultimate
More information in this article that may be helpful. I think this is potentially a very serious problem.
the front windows look ahead and up, not down, how does the beam get inside? you'd have to be at the same altitude, no?
How can a laser beam travel round the nose of a plane overhead, and accurately reach the pilot's eyes from say, a few thousand feet away?
The guy pointing it must have steady hands, and damn good vision.
it has been mentioned and it is obviously required that the laser track the cockpit. exactly how has the technology to track the COCKPIT of an airliner moving 200+mph. (pilots mention a constant laser light for 10+ seconds)
tracking the plane is one thing, and even that is tough to do if you are talking laser accuracy, but the cockpit? also, this has to be done several miles out, since the cockpit windows don't have much downward view anyway.
outside of military technology, are there any commercial systems that could even do this?
You know... the ones with the frikkin laser beams on their heads.
What are the chances of someone being able to even hit the cockpit, let alone the pilot's eyes with a commercial laser pointer from 300m+(ballpark figure, but they'd have to stay hidden) against a moving plane?
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
Put some computer-controlled pan-tilted 1000mw lasers on the plane and the runway.
Maybe some windows 98 operated computers will get mad and transform the runway in some Starwars style battlefield.
That would be a lot of fun !
Perhaps public misperception can eventually make lasers easier to obtain and more widely produced rather than regulated to the point of inaccessability.
1. People think the lasers are weapons.
2. Other people start selling lasers as weapons.
3. Weapons are constitutionally protected for civilian ownership in all civilized nations.
4. Ergo - the Lasers can be purchased at your local sporting-goods store after a background check and some paperwork.
(Author's note, Point #3 is intended to be a bit of a joke. But I expect at least one reader will not read all the way to this disclaimer, instead flaming me good and hard.)
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
Nice spelling and placement troll
"115 thousand people died, and you only care about a fucking laser beam? you stupid morons."
I don't think you realize how bad it is -- lots of people actually believe that population needed to be thinned out anyway. It does not help that most Indonesians are muslims, either. You would not believe some of the crap I heard on 12/26.
About the risk of landing being sabotaged by laser-blinding the pilots...
/jibe)
Aren't most planes landed by the auto-pilot in the U.S.? They are here in the rest of the world (Yes! the legends are true
You'll take my green lasers when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
Given the complexity of tracking a jet plane and the angles involved in getting a beam into a cockpit, one of the most likely conclusions is that this in fact is a malicious threat. It sounds pretty paranoid but heck, someone has obviously gone to some trouble to setup a mechanism that can track a rapidly moving object in flight. I'm glad the FBI is investigating because I fly almost every month and the last thing I want is to wind up in a plane with a blind cabin crew.
One way mirrors on the cockpit windows? Let the Lasers just
Good info? Maybe, if you consider that vague theories expressed on a lunatic right blog as good info...
The owls are not what they seem
Here is an expample of how powerfull those lasers can be:http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmtorrone/2622866/
Burning through a plastic cup is a lot differant from taking down a plane though. IMO it shows how security paranoid people are nowerdays.
You can easily find computer operated 60w lasers. And yes its beam is 5 inches wide.
That would hurt.
Now they've got frickin' sharks in Colorado?
Can someone who is more familiar with lasers and the associated physics explain why green? What type of laser would this indicate?
I have no doubt this will prove about as fruitful as their investigation into Bonsai Kitten
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
This may or may not be a threat. Some interesting thoughts here
But it seems to be that it would be awful hard for something from the ground to actually hit the inside of the cockpit unless it had some sort of tracking device to track the plane, and was high enough to hit the inside of the cockpit instead of the nose cone (perhaps on a tall building or mountain near an airport).
I think this could be another tactic to strike fear into the populace.
Dr. Evil: You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?
Number Two: Sea Bass.
Dr. Evil: [pause] Right.
Number Two: They're mutated sea bass.
Dr. Evil: Are they ill tempered?
Number Two: Absolutely.
Dr. Evil: Oh well, that's a start.
Consider yourself enlightened.
that that is is that that is not is not
Unfortunately, that's the idea.
a few years ago i was involved in an automobile accident, i was temporarily blinded by a very bright light, i wonder if it was by a laser light, if i ever catch anyone pointing a laser light in a malicious manner like that i might just either kick their ass if i can catch em, and/or most definitely get info and call the police
I just made a dumb joke and somebody actually modded this up "interesting" ?? Then you get modded down for pointing that out.
I question whether this is a real threat or not. All common laser pointers use laser diodes, which at best can bee columated to a beam a foot or so wide at a half a mile. This virtually eliminates any danger of retinal damage because of how much the beam's power is spread out. The only issue I see is a temporary "flash blindness" like that of getting your picture taken with a flash bulb in use. That's not too far off from getting glare off the hood while driving to work at dawn. If a pilot can't handle that, they have no business flying an airplane.
That being said though, I still agree that giving a pilot a sudden vision obstacle while they are in the critical stages of landing their airplane is dangerous and should be unlawful.
Also I agree with an earlier post here that there is zero risk of a sustained illumination of a cockpit window from someone holding a handheld pointer two miles away aiming at a target moving at upwards of 800mph.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
- Totally seal the borders
- Confiscate and auction off the properties of all employers of illegal aliens to pay the expenses of
- sending illegals home
- back taxes and
- social service costs of supporting illegals to date
- provide huge prize incentives for commercial development of alternatives to the fragile air transportation infrastructure
- provide huge prize incentives for commercial development of small-capitalization self-sufficiency systems so that small communities if not individual households could provide their basic necessities without reliance on centralized structures
- tear down the prison system as unfit for human habitation and construct a new one in which none of
- make sure that when national guardsmen come home from Iraq, trained in urban warfare and all pissed off at having been abused by the government, they at least have a job.
I know, I know... This is all way too sane for the scum who have occupied the positions of trust and authority within the de facto government of the US.- prisoner rape or other violence
- hepatitis C or
- AIDS
was a substantial risk andSeastead this.
This is serious, but not nearly as serious as what I'd like to do to the pointer-equipped, arrested development imbeciles that always seem to show up in the theater where I've just spent $9.50 to see a film. No doubt they think they're really onto something novel as they draw circles around Gollum's head, or perhaps improve Michael Moore's insufferable visage by doodling on it.
These punks, with their cheesy dime-store pointers, are eroding our cinemaplex entertainment economy. As they taint our $40 movie dates, though, they're driving me closer and closer to actually buying a big screen at home. Which is good for China, or whoever makes it that week.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Bah! slashdot
use a laser-reflective material for the cockpits?
This has been a growing problem recently (this isn't the first time it's happened), so I would hope that someone's already working on such a concept.
If not for the cockpit glass, then a pair of laser-protected goggles for the pilots?
uh oh, let's hope the freedom-hating terrorists haven't made any deals with the G-man and procured the laser-guided rockets from Half Life 2.
Don't commercial airplanes land themselves anyway? How would blinding the pilot cause a problem if this is the case? Now if it is a guide for a surface to air missile, that is a different story.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Have they explored onboard possibilities? Some emission coming from one of the onboard instruments?
I'll bite. Blocking light from entering the cockpit introduces serious issues of its own. Just what sort of issues is left as an exercise to the reader.
...it would be awful hard for something from the ground to actually hit the inside of the cockpit...
But I've been on many a looping approach where the plane is banked substantially to one side or the other for a good minute or so, during which I'm looking down, at a steep angle, right into business districts, neighborhoods, etc. If my eyes can see the ground, the ground can see my eyes.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
One night I was on a CAP SAR flight and we were targeted by such a laser. They can be very bright when your eyes are accustomed to the dark! When we tried to locate the source and got closer, it stopped. It was coming from a residential area. I had spots in my vision like someone took flash photos and I looked into the strobe.
One note; there was mention in the news of a quote from an FBI agent who said it had to be a sophisticated laser to track a plane for severla seconds at 8500 feet. I disagree. I believe with a braced or tripod mounted unit in combination with the beam divergence holding on target for a few seconds is easy.
This whole thing is some serious bullshit - are we really expected to believe that someone can point a laser at a plane the best part of a mile away going at anything over 100mph and actually hit someones eyes (which you cant see) behind a windscreen (which you can barely make out). Even if they were standing in the waiting room facing the parked plane 30 feet away it would be a challenge. If someone was that accurate they would just park near a runway and take pot-shots with a rifle, this is the most absurd bullshit scare-mongering, or how can i put it... 'terror' tactic that has been used to date to scare us, and behold, its not coming from the terrorists, its coming from media who need to sensationalise dog shit to get some ratings.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
WARNING: Do not point laser into remaining good eye.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Is it possible that someone with military experience or some such? Especially considering Colorado Springs. There's six huge and important military installations within about a 5 mile radius of the COS runways. Not to mention that it's easily accessible by the public, probably one of the worst security features (I used to work for Western Pacific Airlines! :O)!!
Interestingly enough, many non-lethal weapons developers are headquartered in the area, to include Jaycor, Loral, and Raytheon. It may be possible that someone or someone's was able to gain access to a Laser Dazzler and is 'having some fun', or causing major trouble. Interesting thought... I saw these on a program on History Channel, and they were pretty amazing, and could possibly result in such things.
Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
Illogical, my dear Watson. Do you see the eyes of the people on the ground? How clear is the detail of what you can see of a single person? If your eyes can see the ground, then eyes on a person on the ground can see THE PLANE. Not your eyes.
5. Profit!
Airlines spend a lot of money keeping pilots flying. You want to keep the good pilots flying, not pushing paper or worse because they're blinded by lasers.
Even if the planes takeoff and land by themselves, which they pretty much are capable of, you want to have the best pilot available for the job, in case something goes wrong in flight.
You have a constitutionally protected right to be wrong, and I the right to ignore you.
no one can possibly blind a pilot in a moving airplane with a laser pointer. infact, no one could possibly even be able to direct a laser beam inside the cockpit of a moving aircraft. that is, no human being. The fact that there have been multiple incidents of this thing proves that "somebody" did it. And that "somebody" could very well be ALIENS (Not from Mexico, but from another planet). We are all highly developed organic matter, and there very well could be other highly developed organic matter in some different part of the universe. Maybe there is life on every other planet, including Mars, Moon, etc, and we just don't see it !
Another similar incident is being reported to have occurred Wednesday night at Teterboro airport, according to AP. Considering that some of the approach routes run pretty low over I-80, and not far from several other major highways, this could potentially be a Very Bad Thing (tm).
Solution to blink tags: wrap them in another blink tag, with a javascript delay loop, so they cancel each other out
Okay, it would be my guess that someone used a high powered YAG laser or maybe a large DPSS. I seriously doubt this was from a handheld unit.
The beams could make it into the cockpit upon approach I believe.
You have to be an idiot to do such a thing. The "pulsing" factor makes me think it might have been a pulsed YAG system, since many are triggered by flashlamps.
Crazy stuff, and it will make it difficult for those of us into lasers for entertainment.
For a good pic of a YAG on a clear night (this isn't mine):
A flashlamp triggered yag
Argon on foggy night
I have some pics from playing around here:
http://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/lasers/
Don't forget to check out www.linux-laser.org, an opensource linux laser platform. The funny thing is the only major software to use the device so far is for Windows XP.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
How is this more dangerous than, let's say, shooting at the planes with a REAL gun? Are we going to ban those too? If we don't, do the terrorists win?
aimed at rotating mirrored balls.
I hate you all.
The other day I complained to Slashdot that the average laser user doesn't need the high powered laser that was featured on here and people flamed me that I was crazy. "200 mW lasers can't affect airplane pilots" was what one person wrote.
Only people that NEED high powered lasers should have access to them. There isn't ANY reason that someone needs more than a low power pointer. If they do, then they should go through the proper channels and documentation to get it. The negative effects of a high powered laser falling into the wrong hands can be devistating.
Unfortunately the only thing I can think of is that this is simply a tracking system for some other purpose. Although it doesn't seem like the cockpit would be the most efficient place to shine the laser for, say, a missle. I would think that center fuel tank would be the most advantagous location.
The other more likely scenario is a covert government/military application. There's no telling what that could be.
The modern aircrew will consist of a pilot, a computer and a dog.
The computer flies the plane.
The pilot feeds the dog.
The dog bites the pilot if he tries to fly the plane.
Too lazy to create a sig...
I'm referring, obviously, to line of sight. The parent comment called into question whether or not a laser from the ground could enter the cockpit, and hence my response. Now: getting that (12-inch wide?) beam to stay on the cockpit window long enough for it to be at least memorable for the flight crew? I don't know... but I just went outside with a Leupold rifle scope (no rifle!) and held it pretty damn steadily on a 737 approaching Reagan National down the Potomac. If an apparatus (say, a two-by-four!) was mounted on a basic tripod with a fluid head for steadiness, it shouldn't be all that hard.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
It is not so much as "impossible" as "improbable without major help, technology, or infrastructure". In the latter, it would seem not too hard to catch or detect anyone doing such.
;)
The ability of a human with a stealthy hand(s) held laser to actually track and hit a pilot well enough to do damage or create risk at most any airport in the world - is debatable. It *seems* highly unlikely, but then again - I am just a slashdot expert...
I doubt that a laser attack would be very effective. From the FBI bulletin, "In certain circumstances, if laser weapons adversely affect the eyesight of both pilot and co-pilot during a non-instrument approach, there is a risk of airliner crash". For both the pilot and co-pilot to be blinded while they happened to be doing a landing without instruments seems highly unlikely to me. Since a laser shines in a very fine point, it would take some mighty fine pointing to blind both pilots in a moving aircraft, through windshield, which will bend the light somewhat.
Several years ago, I read a short [fictional] story about an attempt to overthrow a leader. There was no way to get close to him, physically. So, conventional ammunition was out of the picture. They story has it that the "all-knowing, all-seeing" leader was taken out in a different way. He still lived, but he was blinded by a short burst from a high-powered laser at an outdoor speaking engagement.
So, the question I have is Just what does it take in the way of power level and duration to actually blind a person?
If it were feasible, I'd imagine the CIA or some other TLA would have used it by now and we'd have a few blind leaders around, or obvious steps taken to protect leaders' vision. So, am I missing something here?
Thou dost protest too loudly, John. Heh.
Obviously they saw the laser spot in this particular instance, but I can't imagine it would take a very sophisticated electronics package to detect dangerous levels of incoming laser light.
Additionally, would it be too much trouble to carry some kind of goggles in the cockpit that block out the IR spectrum, in case such a laser was detected? Or they could just put cardboard over the windows until the aforementioned laser detector stopped alarming, if it was a visible spectrum laser.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Cant have something in the hands of the private citizen that MIGHT be used improperly can we?
For get the multitude of legal uses, if there is ONE illegal use, we must take it off the market. And investigate anyone hat purchased the product before the ban..
Must protect society...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Back in the day when that phrase was coined, it had an ironic, defiant flavor. Nowadays, the response is likely to be "no problemo."
No, Airliners on final approach are more in the range of 120-160 mph.
It's a good thing there are no well-financed, dedicated groups of people with deliberate long-term plans for malice against the West (especially the United States).
Oh wait...
My other first post is car post.
That site you pointed to has THE most search-engine-bombed web page I've ever seen outside of a porn website.
I mean, look at the first page. They have the word "laser" on there a bajillion times. (View source to see it.)
You can build your own CO2 laser in your garage that can melt metal..
Shall we also restrict the knowledge to build this?
How about restrict basic knowledge of physics while we are at it...
And who gives someone the right to decide what i need and dont need?
Not that i want a high power laser, today.. But i might tomorrow.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
As per TFA:
"ANALYSIS: The FBI believes that only well-financed terrorist groups would be able to develop or purchase a laser blinding system. Estimates project it would cost a group approximately $50,000 to obtain a military-grade laser system."
I would personally be more concerned by the potential from "hobby lasers" such as the ones that can be built from non monitored equipment capable of burning through wood blocks and other things depending on the power of the device. This is not to discount the damage a toy laser pointing device can do to the eye, but in terms of the small moving target and distance the laser must travel and medium(s) it must pass through how can they really be a threat? Not being a laser hobbyist, I may speak not knowing the facts but it seems to me if you could get the setup going in your garage why not in a mobile device such as a small Mack truck? If you could get the stability needed to keep the alignment and the power and inert gas needed I can see the potential for a risk here. This would yield a mobile assault platform that would very difficult to track down and have the potential for damage depending on the quality and power of the laser device.
Then again, two can play the disinformation game. In terms of monetary value, a war of attrition forcing more to be spent on securing and investigating blind avenues would be devastating for security budgets. Money and resources would be wasted deterring from a more viable plan on much softer targets. Who is to say this chatter they fall on so much is not anymore accurate than the Uranium connection Iraq had? Many things have the potential to be weapons on many objects, and creating a police state will only force things into the black market which always thrives. For example the war on drugs, they are quite illegal but has that made them purged from American soil?
-1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)
WASHINGTON -- A San Diego-based Navy officer whose eyes were damaged by an apparent laser beam from a suspected Russian spy ship said yesterday he was injured by what was an act of war, terrorism or criminal conduct.
> You'll take my green lasers when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
Wouldn't that be "cold, RED fingers?"
I think DHS, the FBI, and the CIA all ought to lock Tom Clancy up. He's been giving the terrorists nothing but ideas.
Crashing a plane into Congress! Shining bright lights at pilots while planes are landing!
IIRC, due to the wave nature of light, visible light (even from a laser) spreads out approximately 10 cm per kilometer.
At at typical crusing altitude, the "spot" from a normal laser pointer on the ground would be bigger than your head, and so dim you couldn't even see it, much less be blinded by it.
-- Should you believe authority without question?
Wow,this was modded insightful. Sad day on /. You could claim Interesting I suppose....and this is on topic in what way?
but lets address these insane points one at a time.
1. Totally seal the borders
Other then not being feasible from shear size(about 20,000 km of boarder), how would you afford it? Ask for donations?
2. Confiscate and auction off the properties of all employers of illegal aliens to pay the expenses of
I am going to take this to mean getting rid of the millions of people that do all the jobs Americans dont want. I am sure you and everyone else here wants to pay vastly more for any number of services, things like food, as well as screw everybody who is already doing all those jobs. Making them legal, giving them protection they deserve is a much better answer. Yes costs will rise but not as much and it vastly benefits the people who are already doing those jobs.
provide huge prize incentives for commercial development of alternatives to the fragile air transportation infrastructure
because if you throw money at a problem it always gets solved. I think the military would LOVE what you describe. I don't know why THEY havent thought of having a cheap,tough, flying transport device.
provide huge prize incentives for commercial development of small-capitalization self-sufficiency systems so that small communities if not individual households could provide their basic necessities without reliance on centralized structures
Energy,sure,do able....water? Waste? FOOD?! You want everyone to be a little space habitat, WHY!?!? So that we can be even more isolated? I suppose if there were legions of terrorist walking our streets we might need to stay indoors at all times. Did something change while I was making this post?
Tear down the prison system as unfit for human habitation and construct a new one in which none of
Yes,the prison system sucks. But for my money getting the MILLIONS of non-violent drug offenders out of the system will help fix alot towards what you mention. I am not really sure why the Homeland security would deal with this exactly but fixing the prison system would be good.
make sure that when national guardsmen come home from Iraq, trained in urban warfare and all pissed off at having been abused by the government, they at least have a job.
Well,they can get a job picking lettuce. Besides,there isnt going to be a problem. Iraq is bad but compared to Nam? PLEASE. And yet somehow there was no problem for our society. You are right thou, they do deserve jobs when they get back and should be treated with honor.
What do you say to the man that has nothing? Cast it away!!
As explained in the Ask the Pilot column, this threat is severely over-hyped. The probability of success is so low compared to the risk of detection, that its unlikely that terrorsits would try this tact.
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Guys like you are what make the electoral process in the US what it is.
Seastead this.
... Just keep the same old principle in mind that has been in use since WWI (Yes, that's right. The early nineteen hundreds).
"Speed of motion" (as opposed to actual velocity) is apparent. When the aircraft is coming toward or away from you, it's speed of motion is less than if it was passing side to side. Just get in line with the sucker as it lines up on approach. Fire toward it.
Rifle fire has brought down military jets with this technique. It's as old as the first biplanes, and still works.
Chances are pretty good that you can do this with a proper rifle scope and a small hand LASER. As far as brightness goes, remember, the LASER (even at five milliwatts) is focused tightly. The beam is usually also parallel to a good extent. I can verify that at five miles on a bright day a five milliwatt LASER is the brightest thing on the horizon IF YOU GET LINED UP WITH IT.
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If my eyes can see the ground, the ground can see my eyes.
And you are travelling at what speed, exactly?
And regarding targeting--everyone seems to think it's so hard--what if you scaned the lazer over a grid around the plane? It'd be hard to miss, though I doubt the resulting brief flash would hurt anyone.
Finally, would some guy on the ground pointing a laser at a plane be able to see when he hit it?
Consequences ensue.
I read in one of the articles that supposedly air traffic controllers had tracked the source of the laser to some residential neighborhood. Is this your standard reporter screw-up or is this actually possible>
This sort of originated in the Enlightenment around debates between whether nature or theology should be the arbitrater of truth. The "nature" advocates, otherwise known as scientists came up with the idea that separation of experimental conditions from surrounding conditions was a really really good idea for discovering truth.
I think they were right.
Seastead this.
How in the world does one use radar to determine the source of a laser?
As far back as 1981, the British Royal Navy tested a top secret weapon system called 'Laser Dazzle Sight,'(LDS). and they used it during the Falklands War where high speed, wave-skipping Argentinean pilots, met a dazzling array of laser beams designed to blind them.
According to this Royal School of Artillery paper 'The most likely choice of lasers for a dazzle weapon would be
Argon (458 - 515 nm, blue/green) or Ne YAG freq doubled(532 nm, green).'
According to the Federation of American Scientists In the 1970's it was claimed that Chinese soldiers were blinded by Soviet-built laser systems during the China-Vietnam war. During the Iran-Iraq War, over 4,000 Iranian soldiers sustained injuries due to Iraqi laser systems. Throughout the 1980's, the Soviet Union were long suspected of directing lasers at US spyplanes. Today anti-personnel laser weapons are inexpensive, sold openly by the Third World, have line-of-sight aiming, and are capable of producing catastrophic results if used against aircrews and sensors in flight.
In 1989 a US-USSR bilateral agreement imposed restrictions on the use of low-energy lasers. In 1989 the International Committee of the Red Cross called for multi-lateral controls.
On 13 October 1995 the Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons (Protocol IV) was proposed. In 1998 it became international law but Human Rights Watch is concerned that the US is developing Dazzle weapons that do not cause permanent blindness and would circumvent the blinding weapons agreement.
Now while the threat from laser weapons are real, I think the odds are greater that a real terrorist would use a man portable anti-aircraft missle.
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
Never mind. The odds of you being a troll with a nym like that is approximately 1-1e-10
Seastead this.
By God, the Second Amendment grants you and me the right to keep and bear green lasers, including peroxide-powered, dump truck-mounted models. Jefferson clearly anticipated that the shadow of totalitarianism would fall over American democracy the moment the government deprived its citizens of green lasers.
Lasers don't kill people, people kill people! Who else wants to help me start some local chapters of the NLA (National Laser Association)?
I was curious whether it was remotely possible for this to be a handheld device. I did a quick experiment to quantify the stability of my hands while holding a simulated laser device (a 10" bamboo chopstick) as steadily as possible, and then scaled the distance up.
The steadiest I could hold the simulated laser resulted in a 1mm quiver at the tip. If we suppose the aircraft is 30k' away (about 5.7 miles), then:
x / 30k' = 1mm / 10"
x = 36meters = 118' quiver.
So, whatever this thing is, it isn't handheld.
Again, we're talking about line of sight. Laser can get through cockpit windows on approach. That's my point.
Further, I think that just sweeping the laser across the front end of the plane as much possible, even if fleetingly, would probably result in the perception that the cockpit is being illuminated. The refraction off of the windshield glass is going to enhance that "it's in my eyes" sensation.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
You are a dumbass. The original article didn't say diddly squat about line of sight.
As for your ability to track planes coming down the powermac - you only think you held it steady. Your crosshairs are really freaking big in commparison to that jet, making such an experiment pretty meaningless. And that's why the eye comparison was a dumb one.
Blinding pilots by laser a threat to national security?
Hmmm... In Tom Clancy's "Debt of Honor," two CIA agents (Clark and Chavez, if you're a fan) do just exactly that to two Japanese Air Force pilots.
The book's plot was the U.S. was engaged in a secret war with Japan and we needed to cripple their fleet of advanced AWACS. The agents blasted them with light (one of those pulsing strobe lights that causes sensory overload and blackouts) as the AWAC made their final approach to land. The Japanese believed the crash was due to faulty auto pilot landing software (plane was made by Boeing) so they grounded the entire fleet of AWACs.
Far fetched for real life... Yeah. Probably.
But no one thought of suicide pilots would level whole buildings using jumbo jets packed with fuel either. (That, BTW, was exactly what happened at the end of "Debt of Honor," too.)
I'm just sayin'......
Fact: pilots of commercial airliners do NOT look out the window.
First, the windows are too bloody high to see the ground anyway. On the crucial part of the journey - the landing - you're nose up, so all you can see out the window is sky and clouds. You can't legally land any Boeing/Airbus/etc. on VFR except in a (very dire) emergency.
So, simple solution? Paint the cockpit windows flat black. Over 90% of the crew wouldn't even notice. Unless the laser is strong enough to burn a hole in the 8" thick glass, it's no longer a problem.
20+ years of Star Wars were focused on tracking a ballistic missile for long enough and with enough power to burn thru the aluminum outer shell and to do enough damage to the interior so as to make it incapable of detonating it's warhead. A failure to acheive this goal does not nessesarily imply the lesser task of hitting a cockpit window is ruled out.
I agree that using lasers against airplanes does not seem a good terrorist tactic.
emt 377 emt 4
These laser weapons are easy to buy and use. I saw an article about this here http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/287.h tml
I'd also like to point out the utter dissapointment in the movie "phone booth" ... when the sharp shooter aimed the laser scope at the victim, he could have looked at the beam on his coat and matched it with where the beam goes thru the glass. This would have given him the proper angle to pinpoint the general direction that the sharpshooter was located. Same with when the sharpshooter fired the bullet and shot him.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
I believe Def Leppard summed it up nicely, with the song title...
Hysteria.
Get a fucking grip. Accurately aiming a laser pointer in the front window of a plane moving at a couple of hundred metres a second at altitude is bloody hard.
That's not considering the beam degradation over any real distance, which, at the ranges we're talking about, would be impair the practicality of the device as a way to endanger a plane.
Seriously, you probably believe Iraq was invaded because it posed a real threat to the US... stop believing every little piece of bullshit thrown at you. You're living up to what real terrorists want.
There is no evidence that that is possible even if you look directly into fairly powerful laser pointers (many milliwatts). In order to harm someone's eyesight in the cockpit of a moving aircraft from miles away, you would need a fairly powerful laser and you would need to aim it accurately. I would guess that there are a lot simpler and cheaper ways to interfere with aircraft operations.
However, even though there is no evidence of actual injury, people still report getting injured by laser pointers all the time. That suggests that there is a kind of fear and hysteria about these devices (maybe caused by too much SciFi) that now seems to be cross-breeding with the terrorism scares.
That's not his argument.
He's saying that it really IS damn hard to hit them. In order to actually do it, you would HAVE to develop a dedicated tracking system - you COULDN'T do it with a lser pointer, you couldn't do it with an industrial laser without special equipment designed specificially for the purpose of targetting aircraft.
There is no Patriot Act 2 (at least not yet). There was a draft bill, the DSEA that was leaked which many people refer to as the Patriot Act 2, but that never was even introduced in congress, much less signed into law. The only existing law is the original Patriot Act itself. Of course, the DSEA or a revised version could be introduced in congress at any time, so you should keep an eye out for them, but as of right now the Patriot Act 2 does not exist as law.
If my eyes can see the ground, the ground can see my eyes.
If your plane is tilted such that you can see the ground, then the people on the ground can see that portion of the plane which has windows, but it doesn't follow that they can see your eyes, or distinguish your eyes from the rest of your head, or distinguish those individual windows, at distances of several thousand feet.
The people on the ground at the terminal can usually only make out profiles of those inside a plane still at the gate(if that much), and that's only a 200-300 foot distance.
I'm ignorant of current policies concerning in-flight cockpit procedures and airport screenings (I haven't flown in ten years), so I'm going to go for broke on this suggestion. Might someone onboard a flight aim a cheap pen or keychain laser pointer into the open cockpit, thus striking the glass and alarming the pilots?
A sig is just a sig, unless you can shoot it. Sig Steyr, for the distinguishing CT.
Laser Vendor: "Do you have government issued clearance to use a laser?"
Peter Venkman: "Back off man, I'm a scientist!"
Nobody seems to have mentioned that Clancy wrote about taking an airliner down with a laser device in Rainbow Six.
In the book, two operatives flash a really really bright light at the cockpit of a landing plane. I don't remember if it called it a laser, but anything but a laser would show an extremely visible point of assault. Simple concept. Attack the enemy with lights.
The defense? Reflective windshields. Would a laser penetrate a one-way mirror?
Cold LED fingers.
the US military.
Where's the rainbow of terror these days? Thats right it doesn't scare anyone anymore. They needed something else to scare your average dumb cluck.
Strange stories about terrorist laser... comes from this region... we have to shut it down... house to house searches...
This guy is selling a ton of lasers: http://www.wickedlasers.com/ These lasers are labeled as class IIIa pointers (5mW) yet come up to 50-60 mW depending on how much the buyer wants to pay. With lots of these things getting pumped on the market illegally, I would say this is much more of an issue than the large ones from the "accused site" that are certified! People need to get their stories straight before pointing fingers! -Norman
"Your proposal is acceptable."
"AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" *MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH* (Quote from "Men in Black")
Laughter is the best medicine, but in certain situations the Heimlich maneuver may be more appropriate.
"Do you really think that a terrorist organization that is determined and resourced enough to pull off 9/11 couldn't get ahold of a few high powered lasers?"
So many people failed to learn the lesson of 9/11. The lesson of 9/11 was that terrorism is cheap and simple.
Sure, a terrorist organization might buy the specialized and expensive equipment necessary.
It is, however, a pretty stupid thing to do.
"We'll shine a light way up in the air, potentially blinding a pilot. If the pilot is completely blinded in both eyes, and the co-pilot is as well, and nobody else on board can fly a plane, and nobody manages to talk the stewardess down, then the plane might crash. Somewhere. Who knows where."
Yes, that's the kind of attack jihads are made of! Imagine the terror instilled! You might as well talk of terrorists putting banana peels in high risk locations in hopes that a high-ranking official will slip on one and die.
As Douglas Hofstadter pointed out after the Tylenol murders, there's no way you can predict where the next unbalanced individual will strike because society is much more delicate than we believe. You can leave a washing mashing full of rocks on a train track very easily. You can use a sniper rifle to take out the driver of a gas tanker truck while he's crossing a highway overpass. You can poison a city's water supply, you can drop a 50 kg cunk of sodium with holes drilled in it into a public swimming pool, you can pull a Timothy McVeigh...
An intelligent person armed with perfectly ordinary materials can kill hundreds of people, even thousands, far more easily and reliably than this.
The fact that very, very few terror attacks have been initiated after such a powerful demonstration of how easy it is to kill people is a testament to how few people out there are really ready to do this sort of thing. There are many who'll say it, but not many who'll just go out every day and set off a bomb that kills fifty people. Most of the ones who will are in Palestine right now.
I'm saddened by this... a generation raised on thriller movies thinks the real world threat is bad guys planning something spectacular, instead of the thousands of homicides that occur each day through normal channels.
My personal suspicion is that the next big terror attack won't be clever at all... just three dozen terrorists all visiting a major city center with easy to obtain assault weapons and forming an small army. How many citizens do you think they could take down if they just started shooting? Given the effectiveness of the Columbine kids, true amateurs, I think 36 trained insurgents in a U.S. city could kill 500 people before emergency services could respond. Easily.
The reason you can't shoot pilots flying a jumbo jet with a rifle is that bullets don't travel at the speed of light.
Which is precisely why using a laser makes it so easy - the beam goes exactly where you point it, effectively instantly. As for doing the math, you forgot to do the math about beam spread, and you got the target size wrong by many orders of magnitude. Read about lasers blinding people, and you'll find that a beam that lights up a large part of the cockpit can blind someone. All in all, this is a lot easier than you think.
Laser Injures Delta Pilot's Eye
we all know it's either the limp wristed europeans, or the camel-fucking arabs...
IAAP (I am a physicist). I do not work with lasers, but have taken a graduate level course in non-linear optics that primarily focused on lasers.
It is quite possible to damage a pilot's eyes at a range of a few miles, using only commercial laser systems. If done by competent individuals, it would probably involve a pulsed infrared laser (harder to detect, and the eye is more susceptible to near IR than to visible). A Nd:YAG laser (1064 nm) would be ideal.
Since a pulsed laser is used, there's no need for tracking the plane. A single 10-nanosecond pulse would be sufficient. At 10 - 20 pulses per second, you could just scan the sky in the area of the plane.
After reading the story, I did some rough calculations. For the above-mentioned laser, the laser beam would do damage (although likely not sufficient to totally blind the pilot) at ranges of up to two miles, and the beam would have a spot size several meters in diameter at that range. Obviously, with additional optics, range and spot size could be changed.
It seems to me that the laser could simply be mounted to a scope on a tripod (after some careful alignment), and that targetting by hand would work at least some of the time.
All this aside, I don't think the recent cases are anything to be worried about. More likely it's just a nutbar with a relatively weak visible laser (I assume the laser was in the visible range because the pilots reported it, and I doubt commercial planes are equipped to detect IR lasers). If it was someone serious, they'd be using IR lasers, and we wouldn't know until pilots started getting eye damage.
That said, the overall risk of plane crashes from this form of attack is low. If the airport and immediate area are kept secure (and they should be if only to guard against Stinger-style missile attacks), it's very unlikely someone with a commercial laser could get close enough to completely blind a pilot. Military or custom-built research lasers could blind from greater distances, but such systems are very finicky, and I can't see terrorists pulling that off.
Finally, I'd like to address a few points other people have brought up. If the polarization and angle of the beam are chosen correctly, virtually none will be reflected off the plane's window, and all will be transmitted (see Brewster's Angle). For modest laser powers, the damage to the retina will be localized to where the laser beam is imaged, leaving much of the pilot's vision intact. Bad for the pilot, but he could probably still land. For more intense beams, other damage mechanisms come into play (apparently for severe cases there is an actual popping sound perceived by the victim as the laser pulse creates a small shock wave inside the eye), and more of the victim's vision could be damaged.
Protective goggles aren't really an option, as they only protect against one wavelength. Attackers could then switch to a different type of laser (Ti:saph?). Combining goggles leads to virtually no light getting through.
References
Journal of Biomedical Optics 4(3), 337-344 (July 1999).
Big Sky Laser CFR-800 spec sheet
You can SEE a green laser in the air and it's brighter so you CAN aim at it at stuff far away in the dark unlike a red one.
Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons (Protocol IV to the 1980 Convention), 13 October 1995
Article 1
It is prohibited to employ laser weapons specifically designed, as their sole combat function or as one of their combat functions, to cause permanent blindness to unenhanced vision, that is to the naked eye or to the eye with corrective eyesight devices. The High Contracting Parties shall not transfer such weapons to any State or non-State entity.
Article 2
In the employment of laser systems, the High Contracting Parties shall take all feasible precautions to avoid the incidence of permanent blindness to unenhanced vision. Such precautions shall include training of their armed forces and other practical measures.
Article 3
Blinding as an incidental or collateral effect of the legitimate military employment of laser systems, including laser systems used against optical equipment, is not covered by the prohibition of this Protocol.
Article 4
For the purpose of this protocol "permanent blindness" means irreversible and uncorrectable loss of vision which is seriously disabling with no prospect of recovery. Serious disability is equivalent to visual acuity of less than 20/200 Snellen measured using both eyes.
Captain D.
Of course your joking, but your sorta right to. :)
it does say "arms" and Jefferson when asked what 'arms' meant wrote "any sword of the soldier, however terrible".
The reason I say sorta is because lasers aren't directly a soldier's weapon, yet.
And yeah, I'm not entirely serious eighter, just easily amused.
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
As John Clark and Ding Chavez demonstrated in 'Debt of Honor', a halogen light with the proper focusing - easily disguised as photographic equipment - does the job just fine. And this book was originally published back in 1994.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
[*]The quoted text was probably reproduced under some "Fair Use" provision or other of current copyright law, and thus hopefully does not constitute copyright infringement, but who knows these days?
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Here is the text of the security warning, since it will likely scroll off the bottom of the page at some point:
The Intellibridge Homeland Security Monitor, 14 December 2004
FBI and DHS Warn that Terrorists May Use Lasers to Blind Pilots
The FBI and DHS issued a warning to officials that terrorists might use lasers to disrupt pilots approaching their landings. The agencies issued a joint bulletin, released on 22 November but recently disclosed by media sources, entitled "Potential Laser Threat" to law enforcement agencies warning that terrorists may use military-grade laser beams to blind pilots in an attempt to crash commercial aircraft (The Asian Pacific Post). The security bulletin added clearly that the warning was not predicated on specific intelligence and that the threat remained low. "Although lasers are not proven methods of attack like improvised explosive devices and hijackings, terrorist groups overseas have expressed interest in using these devices against human sight," the memo stated (The Associated Press). "In certain circumstances, if laser weapons adversely affect the eyesight of both pilot and co-pilot during a non-instrument approach, there is a risk of airliner crash," the memo continued. The FBI is currently investigating three reports by pilots of being temporarily blinded by lasers (Asian Pacific Post). There is no indication that the lasers were set off by terrorists. However, the lasing accidents have prompted the Transportation Security Administration and the U.S. Missile and Space Intelligence Center to investigate how lasers affect a standard Boeing 747 aircraft. Steve Luckey, the chairman of the national security committee of the Air Line Pilots Association, said, "There's definitely an increase in frequency of these [reports]. We're concerned not only about a terrorist threat, but because there are people out there who like to do copycat crimes" (The Boston Globe). Luckey noted that the curved surface of the cockpit window would likely refract the laser away from the pilots unless the beam was extremely accurate.
ANALYSIS: The FBI believes that only well-financed terrorist groups would be able to develop or purchase a laser blinding system. Estimates project it would cost a group approximately $50,000 to obtain a military-grade laser system. Nonetheless, laser systems are still considered "relatively inexpensive, portable, easy to conceal, and readily available on the open market," according to the FBI alert. Therefore, the U.S. intelligence community has been tracking major international producers of military-grade laser blinding systems, such as the Chinese ZM-87 (Asian Pacific Post). Easily upgradeable commercial laser systems used in medical and industrial facilities as well as laser light shows are readily available. To protect pilots from laser beams, the FBI recommends that the commercial airline industry consider equipping aircraft with laser warning devices. Such a device, developed by the Navy, won an award in November from Aviation Week and Space Technology (US Fed News). The device would immediately warn pilots of potential laser radiation that could damage their eyesight. Offenders can use lasers not only against pilots but also against truck drivers transporting hazardous materials or fuel.
In SF stories the good guys are always backtracking LIDAR hits to find and nail the bad guys across millions of km. So, how hard (and expensive) is it today for a moving platform to get a decent fix on the source of a beam that tracks it for a few seconds? What about a cordon of low-flying drones watching 24x7 for the scatter from such beams at major airports? What about fixed sensors at airport control towers?
If we decided to allocate serious resources to the task, how good and how cheap could it be a year from now?
Maybe turning these lasers into a big sign saying, "here I am, come arrest me" would be enough, but what exactly *should* the response be? A couple of burps from a Vulcan cannon would probably discourage repeats, but that's kind of chancy in urban areas, and arming commercial aircraft doesn't sound like a good idea anyway. Maybe the drones could send one of their number to zip over and watch the origin until the cops arrive.
C'mon, we need to come up with a targeted solution, or some well-meaning idiot with his hands over his eyes will say, "well, I don't see any reason for civillians to own lasers," and there goes a whole lot of legitimate uses.
Back of the envelope calculation time ;-)
The solar constant (amount of radiation received from the sun under optimal conditions on earth) is around 1KW / m**2.
For laser safety considerations, the pupil of the human eye is considered to have a maximum diameter of 7mm, giving an area of app. 40E-6 m**2
Therefore, the maximum amount of power from the sun entering the pupil of the human eye is 1000W * 40E-6 = 40mW. (of course, this assumes you are in a dark room and fully open your pupils before somebody instantaneously opens a window)
In order to match this, you therefore need to focus a 40mW Laser to a diameter of 7mm in, say, 1Km of distance.
Or you could use a 4W Laser and focus it to 70mm diameter.
This is a divergence of 70mm/1Km = 0.07mRad.
Your typical Laser pointer optics will be in the range from 1mRad down to 0.3mRad.
Assuming 0.3mRad this leaves you with a safety factor of (0.3/0.07)**2 = 18, because the actual diameter will be more than 4 times 70mm, say 300mm, the diameter of a soccer ball or a human head.
Therefore, you need a laser of 4W * 18 = app. 100W
to even match the intensity of the sun on your retina for an instant.
100W in the visible range is a very respectable industrial laser - about 100.000 times brighter than a class 2 (1mW max.) laserpointer.
Now, lets assume the plane is coming in at 200Km/h = app 50m/s
If you are within 6 degrees off the landing path, then the plane will appear to move sideways by about a tenth of that speed = 5m/s.
As far as tracking the head of a running person in 1Km distance is concerned, any sniper will tell you to forget it.
Therefore, a stationary 100W laser beam with 300mm diameter at 1Km distance would hit the eyeball of a pilot for app. 0.3m/(5m/s) = 1/16 seconds with an intensity comparable to that of the naked sun.
I do not believe that even this this could possibly cause permanent damage to the eye of the pilot.
To be concerned about laserpointers seems ridiculous to me.
By "Can we stop this?", I mean - can we (and people in the media or talking to the media) stop giving advice to people who want to kill us - by telling them what they're doing wrong or how they could do it better or more effectively?
Self censorship is much more preferable than the alternative.
Final 2006 "Proof of Global Warming" US Hurricane Count -> 0
Wow, folks are missing the point here. The idea is not that someone on the ground can "see" a passenger/pilot's actual eyes, only that their eyes are exposed, in a direct line of sight, to a laser pointed from the ground. Earlier posts questioned whether a laser could even make it into the aircraft (because of angles, etc), and my take on it is that if you can see the ground from the aircraft, then something eminating FROM the ground can make it to your eyes.
There's no need for someone on the ground to target (even to be able to target) a particular person's eyes in order for a laser, swepts across the plane, to periodically cross the windows of the flight or passenger cabins. Some of that exposure is going to hit glass near folk's faces, and they're going to perceive the laser. At thousands of feet, the beam is going to be at least several inches wide, and someone with a minute or so to cast the laser is going to cross the cockpit windows at least a few times if they're trying.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Too bad we can't seal off their part of the atmosphere too. Let them be destroyed by their own greenhouse effect.
The little green men will come and get ya all!!! ... green lasers? I thought we were talking about the FBI. Sorry.
Never before have I felt so glad to be British.
Excuse me while I frighten small children with my extremely powerful ray of pure light.
...these aren't my real teeth.
I use fishing line and kites to fish for airplanes. By the time I reel out 6000 yards of fishing line it is hard for me to see the kite, but the pilots do.
Silly dumbass me. In fact, I'm such a dumbass that my original comment was ONLY in response to another poster's question about whether a laser from the ground could even make it into the cockpit. My take on it is that there are angles of approach, as well as turning roll that would present more than enough opportunity for someone "scrubbing" (not perfectly tracking, give me a break) a laser around on the plane to occasionally, during approach, catch the glass on the cockpit.
BTW, if I can keep a rifle scope steady enough to maintain a group of shots within a 12-inch circle at 350+ yards (with the cross-hairs, by the way, not obscuring the target beyond seeing it clearly), then I think it's safe to say I can keep it in the neighborhood of a 5-foot area out at less than 10 times the distance. Yes, I know the target is moving (though neither I nor the target are jumping around - the plane has tons of inertia and is stable, and I'm bracing whatever I'm pointing on some sort of stationary support). Remember: you only have to wash past the cockpit window with a bright green laser momentarily to generate the sort of reports that we're hearing. But then, I'm a dumbass.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
For get the multitude of legal uses
Oh yeah, I know I couldn't survive daily life without my high-powered industrial laser.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
While you may not see a legit use, I can.
The fact that there are any legal uses for a citizen makes my point.
Its not about 'need', its about improper restrictions. One doesnt 'need' much of anything, and most things have dual uses. But that does not mean they should be restricted. If that is the case then we wouldnt have any rights at all, as even words can be used for evil...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Seems that the FBI and the port authority are talking to a fellow on this very subject.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/articles/news2-las er.htm
Apparently it was a "laser pointer" the guy bought off of the internet? Personally, I have not seen any green laser pointers...
Making it even more complicated is the fact that a certain political party (guess which one) is working to destroy the census by making it much less accurate. They want to suplement actual counted individuals with any number of phantoms made up using trendy "statistical" methods that don't require actual counting.
Fortunately, so far, the powers that be have maintained that you really have to count only real people in the census.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Yes, that's what I was in fact trying to say.
However, as it turns out, it's not that hard as I thought. They just caught a guy who admitted to doing it.
Man admits to points at aircract . I guess these really are bored hobbyists.
The sick park is he tried to blame it on his kid!
It *seems* highly unlikely
Just in case you're still following this story, we have here exactly the case of someone hand-pointing a laser at an aircraft, illuminating the cockpit multiple times, and getting caught doing it. Of course, he first blamed it on his daughter!
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
A man in NJ has been charged with exactly what's been described here. Indications are that he hand-pointed the laser, occasionally caught the cockpit, and thus illuminated the pilots, who very much noticed.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050105/D87DMD880 .html
January 4th
Federal authorities Tuesday used the Patriot Act to charge a man with pointing a laser beam at an airplane overhead and temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot.
The FBI acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."
Banach, 38, of Parsippany admitted to federal agents that he pointed the light beam at a jet and a helicopter over his home near Teterboro Airport last week, authorities said. Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.
He is the first person arrested after a recent rash of reports around the nation of laser beams hitting airplanes.
Tsk. Does your life partner know you're on the internet, sweetie?
Yes, we all know it sucks where you live. Spare us the jealousy dance.
Do not look in laser with remaining eye :)
What would you do without a monitor? Sit and look stupid behind a keyboard and a mouse
Man I was reading all this and i think, how can you americans live in the most powerful country in the world and be such motherfucking pieces of cunts? Damn, first of all you have to solve all those fucking racism issues inside your country, and not spend all that fucking money chasing kids with laser pointers.
The worst is, that the slashdot reader is not just average joe. And even then most of the posts treat the lasers issue as a FUCKING REAL ISSUE, when it's just NOTHING. You can't even say "bomb" in an airport or loiter around fucking new york city without going to jail. And the saddest thing is, one of your fucking presidents was the one who said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself".
How can you live in a country where any officer has every right to put a fucking gun on your face for no reason? Man your country has some FUCKING SERIOUS ISSUES.
let me quote an interesting song, by an american band.
Don't wanna be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new mania.
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind fuck America.
Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alienation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia.
Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alienation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.
Don't wanna be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.
Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alienation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.