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Intel to Spend $2B To Stay In The Game
hexed_2050 writes "AMD has declared dominance in the gaming and server microprocessor market in 2004, and Intel needs to respond.. fast! This is why Intel has planned to spend 2 billion dollars to upgrade their eight year old, Fab 12 plant in Arizona. "Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast we respond," explains Robert Baker, Intel's top manufacturing executive."
wow, what an amazingly negative quote.
is Intel resigned to only "respond" to AMD from now on, never to lead again?
Say what you want about Intel, but I'm happy to see they are investing $2 billion in an American plant, instead of sending those jobs away. Course, it could be that with the dollar falling they couldn't afford as much in other places... another reason why I think the value of the dollar going down isn't necesarily a bad thing.
I remember back when AMD announced a 64 bit desktop CPU. The common consensus was that they were completely daft, and other than the rabid early adopters who buy anything... it wouldn't do all that well, given that PCs are still tied to 32 bit software.
Now fast forward a year or two, and AMD is on top, and Intel is trying to play catch up. I never would have dreamed this would happen. I really have to tip my hat to AMD.
"Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast we respond,"
:P
Yeah, it's only taken you eight years. Great job
Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/
I wonder if this isn't just Intel trying to reverse the spin on AMD's announcement.
1. AMD announces they're top dog.
2. Intel decides to minimize the effect of this by bragging about how much money they can spend.
3. Neither is looking at any immediate, dramatic, change in business because processor sales follow seasonal patterns more than Ad campaign release dates.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
I think Intels turnaround is anything but fast, and I think they have to far more responsive to the changes in the processor market than they have been so far. AMD is on the up and Intel is partly responsible for this, what with their flawed introduction of the Itanium and their steadfast reliance on the again Pentium 4.
I heard the same thing after ATI came out with R300. nVidia is going the way of 3DFX. Now AMD seems ahead and those that think Intel is the evil empire are praying for it to disappear. It ain't going to happen. I'd venture to say the long-term prospects are better for Intel than AMD. For consumers, the pitched ATI/nVidia battle has been good. Same thing for AMD/Intel. Tough competition brings choice and lower prices. I hope Intel moves fast. I don't want AMD ruling the market anymore than I want Intel.
Intel has its chance to make the jump into the 64bit market and decided it was better to hold on to 32bit processors at the time. And it probably wouldn't have been a bad idea, if they had a plan to deal with the heat issues in their prescott line of processors. 33% more power for 5% less performance does not sit well with the market (prescott vs. northwood)
Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
Gaming is a niche market. The reason AMD can do well with it is that it's a botique market, and they produce so many less chips than we do.
Look, MY ego's been undergoing enough thrashing lately. Gamers, it's your turn: The reason AMD is dominant in the market segment is a past Intel decision to concentrate on MHz rather than FPS. There's money to be made in gaming chips, sure, but not all that much compared to corporate desktops and laptops.
Sure, the world of processors is changing, but Intel is adapting to the overall MARKET, not merely to AMD's strategies and successes.
Side Note: How come you anti-globalization folks aren't applauding Intel for expaning a facility in the USA? Hmm? Where are AMD's chips made again?
When AMD comes out on top in the next few years. What are the AMD fanboys going to do then? Hard to be a fanboy of corporation that is dominating. ;)
Just crank out a few more dancing scientists in lab suits.
Let the sales roll in.
"Honey, get the one with Intel, all the scientists dance to it!"
How about a low power/low heat/small size cpu/motherboard combo?
Something to beat Via Epia N.
A cpu/motherboard/power supply/case combo would be nice.
What is this "make shit up for the headline" hour? Lets see what a professional news organization has to say: http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type =technologyNews&storyID=6960222
They neglected to mention the location was Arizona, India. Its a new company town Intel is building.
Yey, slashdot started a AMD/Intel FanBoy battle.
Can we just admit that both have a lot of strengths, and that Intel or AMD ain't going anywhere and be done with it. When you go to store to buy your next CPU, buy the one you like and leave the rest of us the fcuk alone.
Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast the trolls respond to first post.
Give this a man an executive job at Intel!
Perhaps they can come with a chip fast enough to run emacs. :)
Jokes aside, competition benefits us all. Never understood why some people feels so strongly about the what company manufactures their cpu:s. Guess I'm getting old.
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
They aren't "staying in the game", they are the game.
Wake me when AMD provides complete solutions, chipset, motherboard, with integrated audio and video.
Intel is upgrading because 8 years is a long, long time for a modern chip fab. The "we'll make chips cheaper than AMD" crap is just investor PR.
AMD is only a threat to but one small fraction of Intel's business.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Now that would be news.
For my accounting class, I did a financial comparison between Intel and AMD, and the results were quite shocking. I'd never bothered to look indepth at financial statements until then, and I'm amazed that AMD is still going despite having trouble posting a profit. While AMD may be in the lead technologically, the company is still a financial basketcase. The question is whether AMD has the ability to parlay it's lead into actual monetary gains.
take all the money that's going into those crappy blue man group commericals, and use it for some R&D...i hate those commercials...
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
Intel is adapting to the overall MARKET, not merely to AMD's strategies and successes
I dunno.. AMD chips if ur lookin at speed vs money, seem to be a better deal.. isn't that what businesses should be looking for?
Boxing Equipment Reviews
Intel blew it when they cared more about advertising, clock speed vs. work done, and their precious high margin that looked so good to investors. This is the fault of Intel's corporate culture. The ability of your product, not its appearance or attractiveness to investors, is what matters. Hooha for AMD.
--Gentoo Baby!
AMD got the lead because they offer better performance for the same price or better price for the same performance (or somewhere inbetween). Intel WON'T win the race by spending more money on much faster, much stronger and much more expensive hardware. Do you think they will let these $2B just evaporate? They will try to get it back in processor prices. And that's their way to failure.
Other thing besides competing in CPU prices Intel could do would be to remove overclocking cap (say, by overclocking you void warranty, if they want to protect themselves from people who burn their CPUs) and possibly limit other such monopolist practices that people just perceive as customer-unfriendly.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I'm glad to see the competition. This can only mean faster processors for cunsumers and who knows what they will find on the way while they battle eachother for the top spot.
I don't have anything to say about it, but no discussion of 64-bit processors is complete without a side thread about PowerPC. ;-)
"AMD has declared dominance in the gaming and server microprocessor market in 2004: I've yet to see an AMD equipped server. If even 5% of all servers are equipped with AMD processors I'll be amazed. This reminds me of when the CEO of Pepsi released a book deatailing how Pepsi "Won the cola wars". I'm sorry if your still #2 in sales you didn't "win" and if you have only begun to break into the marked you certianly aren't "Dominance" For one, I think that AMD is doing great things with their new stuff (been syaing for years they need to do more than just clone Intel CPUs) and that Intel would be wise in paying attention to what AMD is doing but declaring dominance, at least in the server market is kind of like Ralph Nader declaring victory in October.
This is what I like to see in capitilism. Competition. Back in the late 90s Intell had a larger market share then Microsoft did. Now it is loosing the market share so Intell is now spending money to improve their products and make them more afordable. So Money is being spent which improves the echonomy, Prices are lowered which allows more people to buy products (thus spending more money, and improving the economy more), so this is a Win Win Situation. We should point this out to government officials who think keeping big buisness and allowing them to monopolize an area (*cough*icrosof*cough*) that when they hinder competition out echonomy hurts even if they are the largest employer and paying the most taxes because they can hold onto the largest amount of money and not spend it. And for governemts it is not the amount of money but how often it changes hands that shows the echonomy.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The only reason I buy AMD processors is because they're cheaper than Intel for the equivalent processor speed. If Intel wants my business back, they need only lower their prices below those of AMD.
Plus my system has been unstable for a long time and I am afraid my AMD cpu or motherboard may be to blame. Perhaps that fear is unfounded... I don't know... But peace of mind is worth something, and I have never had any reason not to have faith in an Intel CPU.
AMD all the way. Competition is the strongest force pushing consumer electronics. I've been an AMD fan for quite a while now but if Intel doesn't jump on it they are going to lose even more market share in the next few years.
Translation: At Intel we decided to put our effort into having a CPU that had an insanely high clock speed, which we decided was much more important than actually getting the CPU to do a lot of processing, which would help contribute to higher frame rates for games and higher output for most users. Our evil competitor AMD realized that it was important to have the computer do something with the cycles they used, and built CPUs that not only did more, but did more at slower clock speeds. We are trying to figure out why this allowed them to win in a market we previously owned, but so far we've only come up with this MHz rather than FPS marketing phrase.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
AMD may declare what they want, but the numbers speak for themselves. I strongly doubt anyone can provide numbers showing that AMD is ahead of Intel in the server market (though I may grudgingly concede the gaming market).
Join the NFSNET. Our prime goal is making little numbers out of big ones. http://www.nfsnet.org/
Sucka!
Sad thing is, I've been buying AMD chips now for my corporate clients. 1. They cost less, corporations like that. 2. This amounts for the best bang for the buck vs. Intel. I love Intel, in fact, I have two Intels for my main computers. However, Intel has not responded and AMD is taking it away with both price and speed. Moreover, the promising NVIDIA 4 ultra/sli chipset has been released for the AMD line of processors and the combo is very promising in the preliminary results.
Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
Intel's smaller rival that made its name by making bargain-basement Intel knockoffs Sounds rather biased.
Interesting to see how an Intel employee is now deriding higher-performing AMD CPUs as "about gaming" and basically implying Intel doesn't care about that "boutique" market.
And to admit Intel's all about marketing labels like MHz instead of true processing power (derogatorily refered to a mere "fps" here....).
Yeah, Intel's "adapting to the overall MARKET" - with an admitted marketing strategy centered on the fact their clock just happens to spin around a bit faster than and AMD clock.
Boy, all the words like "boutique" and "niche market" and "adapting to the overall market" make me feel like I've just seen a marketing droid's powerpoint presentation....
whatever the market, AMD is really taking intel on.
The opteron is completely dominating that arena. what does intel have? the itanic? dont make me laugh.
globalization folks mostly have a problemw with the poverty stricken low wage earning jobs many companies provide. fabrication work is not exactly a low skill, sweat shop type job in asia.
they dont have a problem with most car imports. they have a prob with cheap clothing put together for little pay.
I call BS. Intel has plenty of resources to go after all kinds of different markets. Further, AMD chips do better at many other kinds of applications. Even further, Intel went so far as to rebadge very expensive Xeon chips (Pentium 4 Extremely Expensive Edition) to go after the "unimportant" gaming market. Finally, for most server usage, Opteron vastly outperforms Xeon, especially for multiprocessor servers.
Sure, the world of processors is changing, but Intel is adapting to the overall MARKET, not merely to AMD's strategies and successes.
I hope your company has a high rate of adaptation, it'll need it.
Side Note: How come you anti-globalization folks aren't applauding Intel for expaning a facility in the USA? Hmm? Where are AMD's chips made again?
Yes, that's nice, though I'm quite sure Intel made the decision based on dollars and cents rather than any warm-and-fuzzy pro America sentiment. Good PR doesn't hurt either - and Intel could sure use some. ;-)
It should also be pointed out that AMD could soon be manufacturing chips in East Fishkill, NY if Forbes is right.
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
"Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast we respond," explains Robert Baker, Intel's top manufacturing executive
And it gives me goosebumps just wondering what the other part of his important job is... Aside from the fact that you should have been proactively whooping AMDs cache to begin with, not responding to their dominance.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Over time most companies 'on top' get too bloated and are unable to keep up with market demands fast enough to stay there.
Look at IBM, or TI ( thats Texas Instruments, for you youngins around here. )
That said, when does our beloved microsoft get to that stage? I hope its soon.. Along with the 'media industry'....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Intel is playing catch-up to AMD.... Internet Explorer is playing catch-up to Firefox... 2004: The year David would strike mighty blows to Goliath.
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
They still rock in one spot, the mobile processor market. I just got a new laptop with their Centrino processor and it's awesome. Loads of power, and I can run for 3 hrs easily. I was looking for a similar offer from AMD but to no avail.
But yeah in the desktop/server market in general I'd give AMD first pick now. Truly the innovator at this point.
Also I'd be nervous if I were AMD, a quick glance at the balance sheets shows Intel has a helluva lot more working capital then AMD, it's amazing what a 600lb gorilla can do to a 100lb skinny guy. Then again AMD has always been nimble enough and they've come up with something innovative to beat Intel, and they'll do it again...
...in bed
The problem with the opening statement from CmdrTaco is that this plant upgrade is not solely due to AMD's dominance in the gaming market. Remember, people, Intel makes a hell of a lot of other chips besides microprocessors. The article even states that AMD is considered to be the leader in automation processors. There is only a brief mention of gaming systems in the article, and Intel has other threats besides AMD. So, CmdrTaco's opening statement is somewhat misleading of Intel's reasons for this upgrade.
Regardless, one of the reasons why I prefer AMD is price/performance. Most of the benchmarks that I've seen in addition to my personal experience make AMD the clear winner in this scenario, particularly for gaming. AMD chips run cooler, take up less electricity, and cost less than their Intel counterparts. But that's only a small part of the competition's offensive against Intel. Intel now realizes that.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Sorry. my eyes were bleeding.
I forget what 8 was for.
Geee...lets see: Intel has 85% market share and has a market cap of over 10 times that of AMD. Intel operates at a profit margin of 22.68% whereas AMD is at 2.89%. And yet the fanboys are declaring "AMD's dominance". How pathetic. Wake me up in 2015 if AMD still "dominates".
Maybe the fanboys should compare some basic financial statistics of Intel and AMD. This stuff doesn't change overnight.
I don't mean this in the "News for Nerds" sense - it's just that this is part of the normal business cycle. If you all recall, AMD took a lead during the "MHz wars" a few years ago when they hit 1 GHz first with the Athlon. Intel ramped up and recaptured that lead, but with an architecture that wasn't as efficient (the P4), but even though AMD retained the performance lead the little bit of momentum they brought into the mainstream desktop war was dissipated.
Plus, Intel had bet the farm on Rambus back then, and when that panned out they had to play catch-up. They eventually caught up. Then AMD hit a nive niche with the Athlon 64, but it's still a blip relatively speaking. Gaming is a niche market, and so are servers (though a bigger niche). Sure, AMD is the leader in gaming, but Intel has the volume, overall market share, and roadmap to compete where most of the dollars are. Plus Intel sells everything including the motherboard to vendors - AMD doesn't.
So Intel revamping a fab isn't really that big a deal. Heck, at the volumes they deal in, $2 billion is almost play money for them. We'll see how both companies manage the next transition - for market share to change appreciably towards either company will require either a major leap forward (not likely) or a major misstep (much more likely). Meanwhile, both companies will keep on pouring money into the fab for each now generation of chips, and continue until someone blinks.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Sure, the world of processors is changing, but Intel is adapting to the overall MARKET, not merely to AMD's strategies and successes
Then why is Intel moving to a performance number scheme much like AMD?
1 : COMPLACENCE; especially : self-satisfaction accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies. http://tinyurl.com/5rkdw/[Webster.com]
I think this is a wake up call for the Chip Giant.
One would think that after coasting for so long, that they would have something in the works, or up their sleeve. I really hate to think that Intel had everything out in the open, and nothing ground breaking in the labs. When you have to spend 2 Billion Dollars to play catch up, there is a problem. If the multicore Processor do not take off, then Intel is a goner. I guess it was a lucky break for them that Microsoft, decided to not charge additional licensing fees, for Multicore CPUs'. http://tinyurl.com/6rkm7/ [pcWorld.com]
Coincidence, I wonder sometimes, or partner strategy?
My cat's picked up a Hammer. HEY! Put down that Hammer. Put Down that Hamm...THUNK!
AMD in comparison, puts the horse before the cart. They build better processors, then (perhaps under-)use marketting to let the world know about it.
Intel screwed itself out of a market, clear and simple.
When AMD began offering cheaper, but equally capable CPU's (Thunderbirds, Celerons), Intel chuckled about how they ran much hotter than their Intel counterparts. All the while AMD was eating up the low-end PC market.
When AMD began telling the world about their 64-bit plans, Intel chuckled about how the world wasn't ready for 64-bit. Additionally, they pushed their way-overpriced 32-bit Xeon's whenever anyone brought up 64-bit server CPU's.
When AMD began talking Opterons, Intel talked about their outrageously overpriced, and seldom utilized Itanium technology.
And when 64-bit AMD chips began to outsell Intel chips, Intel dragged their feet on adding 64bit extensions to their own chips.
Intels attitude seemed to be one that dooms nations, individuals, and companies: They were too arrogant and complacent!
They knew that they were the CPU kings of the world. They knew that the same company that had stolen the low-end PC market could never threaten their corporate market. They knew that 64bit CPU's were not needed yet, and they knew that they could basically put out what they want, when they wanted to, and that people would beat a path to their door, simply for the Intel brand name.
And now they know they were wrong.
Face it... Nations fall when they ignore the barbarians at the gate. People fall when they think they're more important than they are, and companies fall when they ignore the competition, and their target markets needs.
Intel wasn't developing what people wanted, they were developing what they thought people needed. There's a huge difference there. When creating art, you can do things your way. When manufacturing product, you do so to create what the market wants. Intel got it backwards, and their current state shows what happens when you do: Roadmaps tore up, lackluster sales, and a company that's now trying to re-invent itself, just to stay competitive in a market that it once owned.
Intel screwed up! It is the 21st century's IBM in a way, and as IBM had to do in its day, Intel must now change in order to stay alive in this industry it created.
"Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast we respond," Frist upgrade in 12 years, yeah man, way to respond fast. Maybe if the plant was upgraded 4-5 years ago when AMD first started digging into their market share, then maybe they would stand a chance.
TruePunk | Games
No.
Businesses look for somebody else to blame. It's the first thing they "teach" you in MBA "school". Make sure somebody else can catch the blame. Hopefully you can blame a black, a jew, a gay, a woman, or some crippled person. Save the white straight male at all costs.
Considering that only Dell and HP largely use those unified chipsets with everything integrated, and largely only on their low-end machines, I don't consider the availability of an all-in-one solution as big a deal as you seem to make it. 'sides, VIA offers the very thing you talk about- even makes a good office machine for most setups.
What you mention isn't relevent- really, it isn't.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
it can't be also because amd chips seem to be generally less than those of comparable intels? so what's worse, trying to flaunt power because you were once a monopoly in the desktop area or have plants outside the us? and can you tell me for sure intel doesnt have any plants outside the continental us either? thought so...
Side Note: How come you anti-globalization folks aren't applauding Intel for expaning a facility in the USA? Hmm? Where are AMD's chips made again?
The manufacturing part of the whole process doesn't reel in the profits. The real profits to be made come in the designing part. And as far as I know most of the AMD chips are still designed here in the states.
Next thing you know anti-globaliztaion people will start complaining that the silicone isn't mined in the good ol' USA.
Come to terms with the world economy, the U.S. is shifting from an industrial economy to a service economy.
Besides those plants abroad that might be leaking tens of millions in labor a year are dwarfs compared to the 4 billion in wealth it has created for the stock during the last year.
I don't think making chips necessarily qualifies a company to be a mobo maker. AMD is focused only on their core business: producing powerful chips. They've left the mobo market alone (other than to provide reference boards) because there are other manufacturers out there who specialize in motherboards.
I guess I don't see the relative advantage of singlesourcing the system boards. Having an Intel board in my machine doesn't really confer magical properties to it. (Plus, I think integrated video is a non-issue for many desktops, because a lot of purchasers are looking for a customization point. My last purchase was 15 top-end workstations, and cheap video was a concern -- compilers don't benefit from 3D acceleration. However, a lot of people who buy these machines do need them for intensive graphics applications, so they need a decent graphics card.)
I suppose the giant manufacturers like Dell and HP gain some expense reduction benefit by having the chips and boards single sourced. But for a company that's willing to purchase them seperately, I think they can use market pressures to drive down the cost of the motherboards.
John
The reason I'm looking at AMD for my next upgrade is price. I simply get more for my money with AMD than with Intel.
Intel's spending 2B to upgrade its facilities, but who's paying? We are, that's who. So if chipset prices go up again, AMD will still be on top for the cheapskates among us.
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
Where are AMD's chips made again?
Among other places they're made in two Fabs near the city of Dresden, about 350 km southeast from where I live....
I don't think I can complain here.
Intel has fab plants overseas, so does AMD, It's nice to see Intel expanding the US plant, but it's also been rumoured that AMD is opening a second US based fab.. (in addition to thier Austin, Tx one)
Yeah the dresden Germany fab is thier higher volume fab, but opening a new fab in NY could shift the ballence to made in the usa. I highly doubt this 2b fab upgrade for intel is going to shift margin, most likely it's just required maintenece costs to keep the plant running.
Intel's roadmaps from some 2-3 years ago had the 'real' P5's rolling out around now, and that is ultimately where intel dropped the ball.
AMD wouldn't even have rabid fanboys in the FPS market if the p5's had been on schedule. Lately all I heard from Intel is multi-core p4's which would shift the performance to intel, at the cost of precious silicon (not that the amd FX uses a small chunk of silicon either.)
And yeah intel has generally had better overall design (even the highest end AMDs can get bogged down when trying to multi-task, unless you configure them in a dual processor setup) While intel has had the multi-tasking issue solved from a single processor for quite some time now.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
When XBox 2 comes out neither Intel nor AMD will be the main players in the gaming market. The main players will be IBM, NVidia and ATI.
> Look, MY ego's been undergoing enough thrashing lately. Gamers, it's your turn: The reason AMD is
> dominant in the market segment is a past Intel decision to concentrate on MHz rather than FPS.
> There's money to be made in gaming chips, sure, but not all that much compared to corporate
> desktops and laptops.
So, in other words, Intel let the marketers run the show. They had this wild buzz-word called "Mhz" which they had trained a computer-illiterate generation of consumers (corporate and home-based) meant POWER. Then AMD came along and demonstrated that there's more to processing than Mhz.
My feeling is that you guys let the marketers run the show, and marketers are hipster types that dig words like "Mhz", because those words are so whimmy wham wham wazzle. So you guys just kept cranking up the clock speed.
Perhaps you guys should do yourselves a favor and stick the marketers back in marketing, and cut of all the phone extensions between marketing and engineering.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Hey guys ... Intel has been working on that rehab for quite a while. It's not in response to AMD's anything, it's just part of the plan.
So Bush wants the dollow low compared to other currencies which are pegged to the dollar ... ... but then he runs up massive debt which is paid for by bonds sold to those same countries.
That means they have a 3rd option. Re-peg their currencies to the Euro and let the US economy crash. It's a lot of short term pain for them, but a lot more short term and long term pain for us.
Opterons are dominating Xeons in 32-bit server performance right now and they will dominate them even further in 64 bit performance once Windows Server and Solaris 10 go 64 bit in the next couple months. Athlon FX processors are dominating Prescott P4's in 32 bit gaming performance right now and will dominate them even further in 64 bit gaming performance when XP64 is released in March.
And then there's the dominance in stock performance going on...AMD's stock price has more than doubled in the last 3 months; Intel's, "not so much". :)
I'm heavily invested in AMD right now and have made 2.7 boatloads of money on them since September. I expect to make a few more boatloads when 64 bit OSes go mainstream in the next quarter.
I just got a new laptop with their Centrino processor
An amazing feat in itself, considering there's no such thing as a "Centrino processor".
I was disappointed by the announcements earlier this year from Intel and AMD that they will no longer try to improve clock speeds (instead favoring multi-core CPUs, which IMHO are more difficult to optimize for).
:)
On the other hand, perhaps this is a decoy tactic - tell everyone you aren't working on clock speed anymore, then surprise the competition later with faster clock speeds
"Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast we respond," explains Robert Baker, Intel's top manufacturing executive." Robert Baker "I've come to put you back on schedule"
....
Minion "But, Lord Baker, my men are working as fast as they can. The Emperor asks the impossible."
When Barrett took over, AMD was at best a minor annoyance to Intel, a percentage point off of the quarterly revenue. Now AMD is stealing marketshare. Bye Craig, you will not be missed.
What percentage of AMD chips are made in Asia, and what percentage of Intels?
MHz rather than performance is not valued in corporate desktops or laptops in places I've seen. All our high-end corporate systems are looking to AMD/64 _because_ of metrics more like TPC/C, TPC/H, not the MHz rating.
$28? I've got about $31 in my pocket right now. Can I get in the game?
It's misleading to talk about Intel getting back in the game. The Intel market share in the US looks like it is increasing, not the other way around. Sure HP and IBM use a few AMD parts but if you go into any chain store, almost all of the computers will be using Intel and the ones using AMD will be using the old 32-bit AMD chips with weak hardware.
Those room-warming P4s may not be much next to an AMD64 but if almost no one offers AMD64 machines for sale, does it matter? People are still lapping up those P4s in droves. The INTEL marketing people are in the process of schooling everyone about how the technical capabilities of the product are waaaay less important than the advertising 'Intel-inside' co-op program, the blue men commercials, and the payola to opinion-makers.
look at who is cloning who, now...
do you really need to spend that much just to play EQ2? Jeez, just turn down some settings or something...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
...There was much rejoicing.
In my dealings with Intel, It has alwas seemd to me that they are not really concered with input from the public. In the past and even today, they still come off as a very arrogant company. AMD being the underdog has always had to try harder, innovate and listen to public reaction. I sure hope this move of AMD to the top does not result in the arrogant traits that the top dogs usually acquire. I also hope that Intel learns a lesson or 2 from this. As the processor wars continue; we as consumers .. WIN!!
With the exception of my handful of Dell rigs, and the cluster I inherited when I started here - everything I have now is AMD.
:)
That's a full 32node cluster, a 4-way, and a few other goodies.
So like, bite me
When creating art, you can do things your way. When manufacturing product, you do so to create what the market wants.
Tell that to Steve Jobs. ^_^
Many AMD chips are made in Austin, TX.
And don't forget that having the best gaming chip bleeds into other markets. Once you win over the enthusiast, it makes it easier to break into other markets.
on desktop.
pretty fast if they want to compete. Reviews such as this one> clearly shows how the Pentium-M currently competes against the A64 and top of the line P4's using an "ok" desktop motherboard from AOpen
Surprisingly, in all the comments, hardly anyone has given importance to the one amazing card that Intel holds: Dothan.
a spx?i=2308
Anandtech review on Linux performance on Dothan:-
http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.
Yes, everyone agrees that Prescott is too hot and doesn't quite match up to the FX-55 and its descendants. Shut up already.
Dothan's a different cheetah though. With it's mind-bogglingly cool thermal envelope, a moderately overclocked Dothan holds up to a FX-55 (which is a pretty hot processor, albeit not in the Prescott level) in most cases. Best of all, Dothan delivers GAMING performance almost as good as the top of the line AMD offering: FX-55. There's also tons of headroom for overclocking a Dothan to further increase its performance. All this when Dothan is not even running DDR2, PCI-E, or a performance optimized (as opposed to power optimized) mobo! Come Alvisio, things will get even better.
If Intel sheds a bit of Prescott ego, and it's already showing signs of doing so, and adopts Dothan variants for its upcoming desktops, it will whup some serious ass. Believe you me.
The only sadness is that current Dothans and especially their desktop mobos are horribly expensive. I'm just waiting for the prices to come down in the next 6 months. Can't wait to get my hands on a passive cooled, super silent Pentium M desktop that delivers the same performance as all these over-hyped FX-55s and Prescotts. Heck, i'm even willing to take a 10-20% performance hit, as long as i don't need to use an industrial exhaust fan or liquid nitrogen coolant. I can always make up for the processor performance by spending more on a graphics card anyway.
I love processors, not brands, btw. Hats off to the Israeli design team that pulled the P-M rabbit out of their hat!
For years Intel pushed the Itanium as the future, and Pentium as the past
;-) )
They disparaged anyone wanting 64 bit form AMD
Microsoft effectively helped intel by delaying Windows XP for 64-bit in this.
Now, when an AMD64 costs less than an equivalent powered P4, Intel want to invest money
The best thing they could do is ditch Itanium (which only rich companies can afford for servers, and to be honest I'd put lots of Pentium4 servers or AMD64 servers in place of a few Itanium ones)
The other thing Intel could do is co-operate with the likes of AMD, Nvidia, ATI, SIS and VIA and design a bus that is free to implement (but which could be patented, just not enforced) and which meets the need of both Graphics card manufacturers, Peripheral manufacturers and allows high memory rates. Thus meeting the needs of future games (until quake 2010 comes along and needs a lot more power
This however is about as likely to happen as Bill Gates embracing Linux and abandoning Windows.
Don't forget to factor in the off-shoring drive. Even the stuff that is currently built in the US isn't looking very good for the mid to long term.Many of us do. But more of us vote against our economic interests in order to support their ideological/religious interests.
Manufacturing plant between Bermuda and Hawaii? With strategies like that Intel deserves to die. We feel however that Intel's disappearance from the CPU space has really slowed down the improvements. Today's chips at the same price point aren't doing any more than chips 5 years ago. The difference in price required to get very small improvements is much higher than the difference in price 5 years ago.
Many AMD chips are made in Austin, TX
Just to point out, Fab25 is a FLASH plant now, not CPUs. Those are Fab30 in Dresden.
I've yet to see an AMD equipped server. If even 5% of all servers are equipped with AMD processors I'll be amazed.
There are companies who only buy HP DL145 or Sun V20Z to fill their racks. Yes, they are dual Opterons in 1U form factor, and they perform very very very very well... Far better for most tasks than any dual Xeon available today, for about the same cost (even slightly lower indeed).
They are clearly recommended to anyone needing very high-speed memory, I don't think there is anything comparable in the PC world today. Check around you, I think you need to take a closer look to this changing world.
Willy
Intel spent 2 billion on Levitra?
> Next thing you know anti-globaliztaion people will start complaining that the silicone isn't mined in the good ol' USA.
Come to L.A., there's quite a bit of silicone in the Hollywood area.
> Come to terms with the world economy, the U.S. is shifting from an industrial economy to a service economy.
Shifting? Already there. The big concern is that the services are going too, and all that's left are paper MBA's running outsourced operations.
Why does retarded pseudo-insightful crap like this always get modded up? He's not even getting karma for this drivel!
So you get a "cheap" AMD cpu, what are you going to run it on? S3? And AMD chipset?
Nvidia and ATi have absolute shit support for linux. I cannot fathom how AMD can have such a great fanboi image when the only decent and SUPPORTABLE graphics support you can get is either ancient Matrox cards or ancient ATi cards.
Intel documents their chipsets and shares that information with pretty much anyone who asks. Their only restraint lately has been in the wireless support, and to fix that we need to clear up the FCC regulatory issues (ie an act of Congress - look to laws regarding cellphones and scanners and retrofited amateur equipment).
AMD offers a decent chip at a fair price, but for graphics you're screwed. Intel's onboard graphics may not be the hottest on the market, but at least it is supportable by the linux community and not technology locked away in some ivory tower.
SOI technology has been around for ages. It was used on radiation-hardened CPUs for space probes since the 1960s.
Any patent on SOI has long since expired.
A previous poster said that AMD had 8% of the server market, up from 6.9%
last year (last quarter?).
It's not market dominance, but it is greater than 5%.
*sigh* back to work...
But that's only US$ 43... :P
Then color me amazed :-)
I wonder if that was referring to server boxes or total processors?
I also wonder if they were going with first tier server vendors (i.e. Dell, HP, Sun, etc.) or if any old white box with a "Server" label was counted?
Like I said I'm really happy for the progress AMD has made. Competition can only be good for the market in general. I just think they aren't as "dominant" as they would like us to believe.
As much as I'm rooting for AMD to give Intel a run for it's money I'd still probably shy from it for my critical servers, primarily due to the relibility issues of their earlier PII & PIII clone processors in desktops (primarily low end "consumer grade" PCs sold in places like Circuit City or Sears). Inteligently I know these new chips are completely/u different animals but I guess you get burned once (or a handful in my case) and you don't forget :-)
is forget about backwards compatibility with x86, and design a brand new cpu that doesn't suffer any legacy issues of the x86 platform. They could make it 64-bit, target it towards business and servers until they can reduce costs and make it affordable for wider adoption. Oh wait...
"Part of what I do is put the emphasis on how fast we respond," explains Robert Baker, Intel's top manufacturing executive
And it gives me goosebumps just wondering what the other part of his important job is... Aside from the fact that you should have been proactively whooping AMDs cache to begin with, not responding to their dominance.
last i heard, bob was VP of manufacturing, not architecture. perhaps the finance people should also get started working on these cache problems too. they can help on the cache flow analysis.
Intel already has more fabs than AMD, this isn't the problem. Dell would be including AMD chips in their systems if it weren't for the fact that AMD doesn't have enough fabs to keep up with demand.
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
Well the obvious quick answer to part of it is that the freeking government gave them a corporate tax break to move overseas. True facts. No idea how much got paid in bribes for that fiasco, but I can't think of any other reason to do that.
People who keep losing jobs only to struggle to find cheaper and cheaper paying jobs don't "upgrade" as much, nor do they buy much of anything once the bank account is stripped, they switch to credit, and credit is *not* wealth, and eventually that gets borked as well. Then what?
Any nation that voluntarily destroys middle class jobs for still useful products, not buggywhip subsidies, I mean still current and useful manufactured goods, deserves everything that happens to them. And it WILL happen too.there's no way it can't now, it's too far gone to recover from. I call it the upcoming full "second worlding" of the US.
Penny wise now,lots of this quarter "profits" for "shareholders" and big fancy magazine covers for various "successful" CEOs,and some cheap crap on credit at *mart, but seriously pound foolish later.
Eventually, jobs exported to nation X will result in said nation X no longer needing the market represented by the original nation, in this instance, soon China will no longer need the US market, as they will have enough of an infrastructure developed and in place and more than enough population to only need their exploding internal market and those markets foreign to them that exist to supply them various raw materials, of which the US isn't one, either. We won't be making anything they need, selling any raw materials, or being able to afford to export our last ditch products, which are ag products. We just recently switched to being a net food *importer*, unparalleled in our nations history. They will have to drop the buck to what passes for a dime in todays buying power to stay competetive, so guess what that will do to the median standard of living.
This isn't a case of china creating these jobs all on their own, or the various other big outsourcing targets, this is a case of decent existing and still useful jobs being exported for short term high level mega profits and tax breaks, and it's a big difference.
In short, in the US we are in the good old days now of affordable stuff and perhaps good jobs, I doubt it will continue into the next adult generation. I seriously doubt it, all the numbers point to a bad decline across the board. It's been 30 years in the making, I've watched it happen, but it's about "cooked", that economic scam turkey is done, and the proof is in the balance of trade payments (we lose), the savings levels(historical all time low), the amount of bankruptcies and foreclosures(historical all time highs), government debt (all time high), and the complete lack of confidence or fiscal reality in most private or governmental pension schemes out
Another dominant company in their market. They decided in the 80's/90's though to focus on manufacturing and parsing their vehicles into segments, and ignored investing in quality or innovative product. They are only now trying to correct that after being continuously hammered in the market place.
I hope Intel doesn't make the same mistake, only focusing on manufacturing processes, and not bothering to invest in the designs of what they are actually manufacturing.
There's a reason it's been rated +5 Funny :)
But seriously, this theme was the subject of an urban legend back in the day. As the tale goes, a town in Japan was renamed Usa so that Japanese goods could have the phrase "Made in the USA" stamped on them. Though there actually is a town named Usa in Japan, it's had that name since before WWII and its name was never leveraged for trade purposes.
It isn't just job export-it is uncontrolled immigration-which basically lets companies give immigrants a shot at a share of public assets(i.e. access to social welfare programs, access to infrastructure) instead of paying compensation. Current US immigration policy is a corporate welfare program-and another de facto liquidation of assets.
And so have done many other people that I know. Why? it's simple: AMD's CPUs are cheap and offer great processing power. For most cases, weather the CPU was AMD or Intel was of no significance...AMD 386 40 MHz played Doom I and Wing Commander exceptionally well...my 3400+ Athlon FX plays Doom 3 and HL2 almost perfectly. Why should I buy an Intel CPU? AMDs are a lot cheaper.
There's money to be made in gaming chips, sure, but not all that much compared to corporate desktops and laptops.
That seems to be Matrox's theory also (younger people here might be asking who the hell is Matrox?). I wonder if it's working for them.
For the record, the sig in question is "Ask me for a Gmail invite.".
"Time to update your signature =) We've all gone through the hype Google managed to pump during their IPO phase by releasing an ALPHA version of GMail, and never doing a full release (their PR claim it's beta quality but i beg to differ). Especially now that Yahoo Mail has a search very similar in power to that of GMail"
The Gmail interface still is pretty far ahead of the current Yahoo! one. It remains the best webmail service IMHO.
"I see few reasons to desire a GMail invite."
So... that would be why you didn't ask me for one? I'm a bit lost as to why you felt the need to elaborate further on the matter.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
There may be a benefit later when trying to sell the finished product if the dollar continues to slide, but only if the customers who are demanding chips are outside the U.S.
In the scheme of things, this is not really big news but a cyclical occurence for them, and only one fab of many. It would be bigger news if they decided NOT to upgrade. If they didn't upgrade for once it would send a strong signal that they are slowing down.
"Meanwhile, Advanced Micro Devices Inc..., Intel's smaller rival that made its name by making bargain-basement Intel knockoffs...."
...economic reality until around the 80s or so in this nation. Since then, between the combination of going from the worlds largest creditor nation to the worlds largest debtor nation, and from the occurrence of the rise of the super nanny state, the net result is that now illegal immigrants cost the economy in general terms approx 55 grand a head. It's a severe net loss in purely economic terms. The increased "benefits" of a pool of lower wage earners (who really now are in a lot more than truely dismal jobs "no one wants", that's now an exploded myth) compared to increased infrastructure and societal costs is way tilted towards the "more cost" size. Increases in property taxes to go for new public schools for instance. Whereas in the past is was slow normal growth, many places are having to double or tripe their expenditures in a few short years, ie, no way to ramp it gracefully other than to rip it out of the pockets of people who built the original infrastructure locally, forcing them to pay twice or three times for basically the same "service" they already paid for previously. Ditto police, fire and more importantly public and private health costs. Many local hospitals now run in the red constantly due to pressure from illegals, whom they must treat by law, and who don't/can't/won't pay a penny back. "Anchor babies" who are instant citizens because their 8 months and 29 days pregnant mothers fly in just to have their babies here, which make them eligible for citizenship status, which therefore makes the babies parents and other extended family groups somehow eligible. Instant small business loans and grants for "new arrivals".
And another point, the ratio of new arrivals to long term existing is HIGHER now than at any time in the past, as when people talk about the earlier days of the US when so called "waves" of immigrants came in. The ratio is much higher now, no other era comes as close or is "more" unless you talk about the immediate early colonization period and leave out all the native peoples. The nearest to now historical era was the late 1890s and, IIRC we are almost triple that ratio currently.
But with that said, yes, some people profit from it immensely, those same folks who want what they can get vacationing in the second world,real cheap house serfs, garden serfs, factory serfs, various other labor serfs, uhh "physical companion" serfs, and etc, but without the inconvenience of actually having to move to some second world nation. They just want that sort of ultimate two class society here. I mean, there's a reason-say for example Mexico, is still mostly a two class nation. It's not because they lack natural resources or ag land or hard working people or access to tools or whatever, it's because they have a 1% controlling racist class of "castillians" who would rather it stayed the way it has become, 1% controller wealthy class, every one else below them, much below them. The same guys and their economic allies want that for the US. In China, a very equivalent deal, these large companies know what's up at the top levels in China, and they *like it*, they like that orders can be given and that those with the wealth have a lot more power,economic, political, etc, they *dig it*. They want that scene here, too.
I call them the modern technofeudalists, the new neo-royal "class".
I remember when intel was THE processer. I guess it's only months before we see them in bankrupcy and/or being bought out
Just compare the results over the past year in which Intel is supposedly been screwing up so bad...
a nce.yahoo.com/q/is?s=INTC
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AMD
http://fin
AMD, Total Revenue = $4,943,322,000
AMD, Net Income = $164,312,000
Intel, Total Revenue = $33,352,000,000
Intel, Net Income = $7,566,000,000
Intel has 6.7 times the Revenue, and 46 times the profits. In fact Intel has made more profit in this last "troubled" year than AMD has in its entire existance as a corporation.
So while I like AMD, and will probably end up with a Athlon 64 as my next computer, AMD in no way dominates Intel, and Intel would have to completely self-destruct for that to even come close to happening.
Idiot. You are not running Free code, you are running a proprietary bit of shit locked up by Nvidia.
Where are the GPL drivers? There aren't any, because these folks will not release enough information for the community to support them.
You might as well just run windows and be done with it.
... I really do prefer Intel rather than AMD, I think of AMD as a cheap copy (or an intetnt of copy) of Intel, and now that Intel is having a hard time I will still be on The Good Side and I know the Force will go with me.
You missed an obvious and huge part of inflation: prices going up due to increasing COSTS. These can include such factors as oil prices going up (a big part of inflation in the 1970s) or wages.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
It is not a corporate welfare program in any way, as nothing is being given to corporations when you allow individuals the basic freedom to seek a better life.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Not in any way, not more than any other instance of working for a living. Slavery involves ownership and forced labor. While this does occur and is documented, the overwhelming number of immigrants are not slaves. Certainly, those working for the "crooked smirking contractor" are not slaves.
"they work for the minimum required to stay alive -- many times not even minimum wage"
This is because the real value of the work is often much less than the arbitrarily-set government "minimum wage" value.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
It is perfectly voluntary whether or not a company decides to contract with a factory in South Carolina vs one in Juarez. It is perfectly voluntary whether or not a car buyer wants to buy a Honda built in Ohio vs a Ford built in Mexico.
You are instead referring to the legality of discrimination against Americans. This is pretty much nonapplicable to what we are discussing (unless you really are defending such discrimination!).
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Now, do you think in these terms -- of legitimate government as mutual insurnce company -- then major asset protected is the land of the government's territory. If you presume to say anyone outside the association has a right to join the association, and take up residence on the land, then you are violating the voluntary nature of the association.
Freedom of association is, in fact, the fundamental human right -- the right upon which all other rights -- including property rights -- are founded.
Seastead this.
Why are you so much in favor of denying people their most fundamental right?
Seastead this.
You are talking to R. Burns, correct? If not, let me know more.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.