Hard to say exactly, but last I checked, a suitable ARM SOC in our kind of volume would run about $20. That's just for the chip - you also need a few MB of SDRAM and flash, a DAC, and possibly a separate Ethernet chip, depending on which chip you choose. Also you might need a little microcontroller in there to handle things like IR reception and the display interface. This is pretty much the architecture of the Audiotron and some other network players, though I don't think any of them support vorbis. Don't forget, there's a lot of other stuff going on in the CPU on those machines, as they do all the indexing and UI work on the client.
All in all, it works out to a much higher BOM. I tried to keep the electronics as lean as possible, so I could splurge on the display and still offer a generally better product than the "big guys".
Your web page doesnt say anything about OGG support, so I'm guessing its NOT what he's looking for.
Actually, the web site *does* mention ogg, right in the FAQ. We get a lot of requests for this, and we would love to support the format. Here's the full story:
The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.
However, what we DO support is transcoding from ogg to high-bit-rate MP3, if your server is fast enough to support it. Yes, we all know that transcoding from one lossy format to another is bad, but 320Kbps MP3 is not going to introduce any significant new artificacts on top of an ogg stream.
That's the best we can do, until somebody comes up with an inepensive way to decode ogg. The feature works on Unix systems that have lame and ogg123 installed, but we don't list it as a supported feature because it doesn't work on Windows (yet).
My first car was a 2-door Honda Accord. The first thing I did when I got the car was to rip most of the electronics out, and hook up my own circuitry to control everything. I installed an alaram system, added power door locks, and then wired up the lock motors to a microcontroller circuit that would trigger a relay for a few seconds when the car was unlocked twice. The relay would power the window motors, lowering them.
The kicker was I'd tell people that the car was voice activated. I'd walk up with my hand in my pocket, or the remote tucked in my palm and command "doors open". To everyone's amazement, the windows would roll down right on queue. Then they'd try it, and I'd go on to explain that not only were they voice activated, they also recognized the signature of my voice so that only I could unlock the car.
However, it's readily apparent you feel "loaning a book to a friend" and "scanning the entire book, converting it to.pdf, and throwing it on your Kazaa share" are the same thing, and each deserve the same free right.
Please explain how that is "readily apparent" from my post. I outlined several fair-use scenarios in which I either have been, or reasonably fear I will be, encumbered by the RIAA/MPAA's actions.
I don't steal music or movies. I actually have a large collection of media which I have purchased. I just want to enjoy it without artificial restrictions, and I won't buy any more until I can make the purchase on reasonable terms.
If I build the thing to play advertisements, and you still want to buy the thing, that's my decision.
That's fine, IF YOU'RE DOING SO on a fair playing field. However, what the MPAA is doing is only allowing selected manufacturers to sell equipment which plays DVDs. With the DMCA, they have purchased a law which PROHIBITS anyone from making their own products which play DVDs without restrictions (region coding, fast fwd controls, etc). That is FUCKED UP, UNAMERICAN, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and that's why we should fight for the repeal of the DMCA.
Yeah, they've just got a gun to your head and are forcing you to give up said music storage devices.
Again, no, they do not have a gun to my head to purchase their product. However, they ARE lobbying for even more laws to limit my choices in how I can use the content which I have purchased.
(a) No one is forcing to watch commercials, or for that matter, even purchase TV service from said media companies.
Not right now, but they are looking for ways to shut down products like Tivo. Your post is totally asinine - you fail to realize that I am not complaining not only about things which are illegal now - I'm even more concerned about what WILL be illegal if tthe RIAA/MPAA has their way.
TCPA/Palladium does *not* do this, dammit.
Did I say anything about those specific technologies? No. Regardless, I will address your point: Microsoft has the power to impose these restricitons on the ignorant masses, in the guise of improved security or what have you. That is wrong, and I hope that informed consumers will boycott them.
Their shrieks and cries of doom, and destruction, on the contrary, echo their histrionic historical wailings, about every new media development under the sun, decimating their livelihoods.
histrionic Pronunciation Key(hstr-nk) also histrionical (--kl) adj. 1. Of or relating to actors or acting. 2. Excessively dramatic or emotional; affected.
Do you enjoy being forced to watch commercials on your $50/mo cable TV service?
Would you prefer that your computer be artificially restricted in what it can and can't do, as opposed to being a general-purpose device whose capability is limited only by the imagination of software engineers?
Would you like the federal govermnment to pass laws which restrict you from loaning your favorite book to a friend?
If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, then you are a troll and a fucking hypocrite.
Re:Is Intel doing the right thing?
on
Itanium Problems
·
· Score: 2
Hehe, 130 Amps. I believe most houses only have a 200 Amp electrical box. Imagine trying to run a dual processor box and seeing all of the lights dim!
Oh, for the love of christ... POWER == CURRENT * VOLTAGE. Even if this were a 130A chip (and it ain't), it would pull only about 3A at the fuse box.
Yes, lets not take unfair advantage of the hapless fools at google who aren't putting ads on their cached pages. Give me a break. Last I checked, those cached pages start with some text about google, and they contain google.com in the URL. EYEBALLS ==REVENUE for Google.
I'm sure they're perfectly happy to get the exposure from Slashdot linking to their cache. If they weren't I'm sure their programmers could figure out if ($ENV{'REFERRER'}=~/slashdot/i) {print "Content-type:text/plain\n\nplease don't link directly to our cache.";}
Were there an even number of slashdotters, the median value would be equal to the middle two. In the case of an odd number, the number of samples above the median would still be less than exactly fifty percent of the total. But when citing percentages, it is understood that the numbers are rounded to the nearest percent unless a precision is specified.
True, one of the accepted meanings of the word "average" is "being intermediate between extremes". However, the thing about that statement is that "50%" is by definition at the median, NOT the average. What makes that joke funny to me is the irony in that the statement itself is wrong, i.e. the joke is about being below average at math, but the person telling the joke doesn't even get it..:)
And yes, 50% of all slashdotters above the median in nitpicking.
profit margins on things which cost nothing after the first copy are not fair. Micro$oft has a crazy profit margin because of this and they have to hide it.
That's ingenious! When the next version of Windows comes out, why dont you run down to CompUSA and pay $478,000,000.00 for your copy. Then the rest of us can have it for free!
I've never understood what all the fuss is about with Linux on the X-Box. Apart from being a fun hack, is there any point to this?
Yes, there's a point to it. These geeks are demonstrating the stupidity in crippling a computer with DRM, and they're deriding Microsofts attempts to make a so-called "secure platform". Microsoft has said that they want the future for PCs to include these crippling technologies. What they are doing is proving to MSFT customers and shareholders that the company is full of shit, and DRM can't be done (never mind whether or not it should be done).
I don't know if that's their motivation or not, but that's the effect. Their motivation might just come from solving a difficult problem and learning something in the process - you should try it!
If you don't know the answer to the question you're asking, you shouldn't be setting up an SMD assembly line. Clearly, you don't have somebody who's really familar with SMD board manufacturing, which is a reasonably complex process.
I'm not afraid to learn. I suppose you only ask questions to which you already know the answer?
It's also one you can easily outsource in Silicon Valley. Things are slow right now, and there's lots of capacity. Call up somebody like Solectron or Flextronics and find out what they'd charge you to do the job. If your job is too small for them, they'll probably recommend a small shop.
We're already using a contract manufacturer, but we're looking to shorten lead times and reduce production cost and invetory float. Managing a relationship with any kind of manufacturer is not a trivial task - when your cost of goods is substantial and you need to grow, long production lead times are a big problem.
Anyway, thanks for the advice on equipment, but you really haven't shed any new light on the question I was asking.
These guys made software for the iPaq that does the following:
"The prototype handheld has so far been used to control two lamps, a fan and a stereo with a five-CD changer. "
Worst slashdot story ever - and this is worthy of a CNN story???? Give me a break. Check out the mega-remotes from Philips and Marantz if you're looking for a product like this.
Is this a joke? I just moved here from the NYC area. This place is dry as a bone. You obviously don't know real humidity.
NYC is dry as a bone compared to New Orleans, so what's your point? Drive down to Phoenix if you want to see a dry place. Silicon Valley is "fairly humid" - it's all relative.
Don't trust a conveyor belt salesman who says it is not. He will say anything to get the product sold. If that conveyor belt is made of something non-conductive, plastic bins placed on it will generate static
Where did you get all this about conveyor belts? An SMT line includes no belts of the kind you're describing. The only thing vaguely like it would be the steel conveyer used inside the oven (it's sort of like chain-link fencing).
well, not for nothing, but you also can't say that the failure was not due to elves or car key gnomes.
Somebody mod parent up please - this was EXACTLY the point of my post, and this is the only reader to get it. The reason I sent this question to askslashdot was because I figured there must be at least ONE person out there who has some scientific evidence wrt ESD. Notice that every singele +5 in this story contains NO real evidence - just anecdotal reports of lower defect rates and lots of vague warnings about "latent effects". The only papers I could find on Google were written by guys who sell static control products.
Slashdot Mirror
Hard to say exactly, but last I checked, a suitable ARM SOC in our kind of volume would run about $20. That's just for the chip - you also need a few MB of SDRAM and flash, a DAC, and possibly a separate Ethernet chip, depending on which chip you choose. Also you might need a little microcontroller in there to handle things like IR reception and the display interface. This is pretty much the architecture of the Audiotron and some other network players, though I don't think any of them support vorbis. Don't forget, there's a lot of other stuff going on in the CPU on those machines, as they do all the indexing and UI work on the client.
All in all, it works out to a much higher BOM. I tried to keep the electronics as lean as possible, so I could splurge on the display and still offer a generally better product than the "big guys".
Your web page doesnt say anything about OGG support, so I'm guessing its NOT what he's looking for.
Actually, the web site *does* mention ogg, right in the FAQ. We get a lot of requests for this, and we would love to support the format. Here's the full story:
The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.
However, what we DO support is transcoding from ogg to high-bit-rate MP3, if your server is fast enough to support it. Yes, we all know that transcoding from one lossy format to another is bad, but 320Kbps MP3 is not going to introduce any significant new artificacts on top of an ogg stream.
That's the best we can do, until somebody comes up with an inepensive way to decode ogg. The feature works on Unix systems that have lame and ogg123 installed, but we don't list it as a supported feature because it doesn't work on Windows (yet).
Check out the full specs...
That's pretty geeky - here's another one:
My first car was a 2-door Honda Accord. The first thing I did when I got the car was to rip most of the electronics out, and hook up my own circuitry to control everything. I installed an alaram system, added power door locks, and then wired up the lock motors to a microcontroller circuit that would trigger a relay for a few seconds when the car was unlocked twice. The relay would power the window motors, lowering them.
The kicker was I'd tell people that the car was voice activated. I'd walk up with my hand in my pocket, or the remote tucked in my palm and command "doors open". To everyone's amazement, the windows would roll down right on queue. Then they'd try it, and I'd go on to explain that not only were they voice activated, they also recognized the signature of my voice so that only I could unlock the car.
However, it's readily apparent you feel "loaning a book to a friend" and "scanning the entire book, converting it to .pdf, and throwing it on your Kazaa share" are the same thing, and each deserve the same free right.
Please explain how that is "readily apparent" from my post. I outlined several fair-use scenarios in which I either have been, or reasonably fear I will be, encumbered by the RIAA/MPAA's actions.
I don't steal music or movies. I actually have a large collection of media which I have purchased. I just want to enjoy it without artificial restrictions, and I won't buy any more until I can make the purchase on reasonable terms.
He's not a troll. His words may be painful, but they sound pretty honest to me.
Please see the definition of "troll" at everything2.com
If I build the thing to play advertisements, and you still want to buy the thing, that's my decision.
That's fine, IF YOU'RE DOING SO on a fair playing field. However, what the MPAA is doing is only allowing selected manufacturers to sell equipment which plays DVDs. With the DMCA, they have purchased a law which PROHIBITS anyone from making their own products which play DVDs without restrictions (region coding, fast fwd controls, etc). That is FUCKED UP, UNAMERICAN, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and that's why we should fight for the repeal of the DMCA.
Yeah, they've just got a gun to your head and are forcing you to give up said music storage devices.
Again, no, they do not have a gun to my head to purchase their product. However, they ARE lobbying for even more laws to limit my choices in how I can use the content which I have purchased.
(a) No one is forcing to watch commercials, or for that matter, even purchase TV service from said media companies.
Not right now, but they are looking for ways to shut down products like Tivo. Your post is totally asinine - you fail to realize that I am not complaining not only about things which are illegal now - I'm even more concerned about what WILL be illegal if tthe RIAA/MPAA has their way.
TCPA/Palladium does *not* do this, dammit.
Did I say anything about those specific technologies? No. Regardless, I will address your point: Microsoft has the power to impose these restricitons on the ignorant masses, in the guise of improved security or what have you. That is wrong, and I hope that informed consumers will boycott them.
You can loan CDs to friends all you want.
You can... for now.
Histrionic - le mot juste! I had to look it up:
Alright, I'll feed the troll.
If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, then you are a troll and a fucking hypocrite.
Hehe, 130 Amps. I believe most houses only have a 200 Amp electrical box. Imagine trying to run a dual processor box and seeing all of the lights dim!
Oh, for the love of christ... POWER == CURRENT * VOLTAGE. Even if this were a 130A chip (and it ain't), it would pull only about 3A at the fuse box.
...non-Linux systems running Apache/OpenSSL?
I realize the binary may not run on FreeBSD/OSX/etc., but the vulnerability itself is not Linux-specific, right? Could the virus be ported?
Sorry, I'd RTFA but it's slashdotted.
Yes, lets not take unfair advantage of the hapless fools at google who aren't putting ads on their cached pages. Give me a break. Last I checked, those cached pages start with some text about google, and they contain google.com in the URL. EYEBALLS ==REVENUE for Google.
I'm sure they're perfectly happy to get the exposure from Slashdot linking to their cache. If they weren't I'm sure their programmers could figure out if ($ENV{'REFERRER'}=~/slashdot/i) {print "Content-type:text/plain\n\nplease don't link directly to our cache.";}
In other news, the original comment is a fucking joke on this subject, which you totally missed. Thank you for playing.
Chill out, I got the joke. I'm just being a smartass and having fun geeking.
This'll go on forever, but what the hell...
Were there an even number of slashdotters, the median value would be equal to the middle two. In the case of an odd number, the number of samples above the median would still be less than exactly fifty percent of the total. But when citing percentages, it is understood that the numbers are rounded to the nearest percent unless a precision is specified.
Could you explain the logic behind handing someone a million dollar gift and then proceeding to sue them?
It's not a gift for them to spend on ferraris and hookers. It's a research grant.
True, one of the accepted meanings of the word "average" is "being intermediate between extremes". However, the thing about that statement is that "50%" is by definition at the median, NOT the average. What makes that joke funny to me is the irony in that the statement itself is wrong, i.e. the joke is about being below average at math, but the person telling the joke doesn't even get it.. :)
And yes, 50% of all slashdotters above the median in nitpicking.
Bad at math? It's OK, I heard on CNN that 50% of all people are below average in math.
:)
Clearly, if you don't know the difference between the average and the median, then you fall into the lower 50% of something or other...
20+ MB of movies on that page, and it's still not slashdotted. He's gonna get one HELL of a bandwidth bill.
profit margins on things which cost nothing after the first copy are not fair. Micro$oft has a crazy profit margin because of this and they have to hide it.
That's ingenious! When the next version of Windows comes out, why dont you run down to CompUSA and pay $478,000,000.00 for your copy. Then the rest of us can have it for free!
I've never understood what all the fuss is about with Linux on the X-Box. Apart from being a fun hack, is there any point to this?
Yes, there's a point to it. These geeks are demonstrating the stupidity in crippling a computer with DRM, and they're deriding Microsofts attempts to make a so-called "secure platform". Microsoft has said that they want the future for PCs to include these crippling technologies. What they are doing is proving to MSFT customers and shareholders that the company is full of shit, and DRM can't be done (never mind whether or not it should be done).
I don't know if that's their motivation or not, but that's the effect. Their motivation might just come from solving a difficult problem and learning something in the process - you should try it!
If you don't know the answer to the question you're asking, you shouldn't be setting up an SMD assembly line. Clearly, you don't have somebody who's really familar with SMD board manufacturing, which is a reasonably complex process.
I'm not afraid to learn. I suppose you only ask questions to which you already know the answer?
It's also one you can easily outsource in Silicon Valley. Things are slow right now, and there's lots of capacity. Call up somebody like Solectron or Flextronics and find out what they'd charge you to do the job. If your job is too small for them, they'll probably recommend a small shop.
We're already using a contract manufacturer, but we're looking to shorten lead times and reduce production cost and invetory float. Managing a relationship with any kind of manufacturer is not a trivial task - when your cost of goods is substantial and you need to grow, long production lead times are a big problem.
Anyway, thanks for the advice on equipment, but you really haven't shed any new light on the question I was asking.
These guys made software for the iPaq that does the following:
"The prototype handheld has so far been used to control two lamps, a fan and a stereo with a five-CD changer. "
Worst slashdot story ever - and this is worthy of a CNN story???? Give me a break. Check out the mega-remotes from Philips and Marantz if you're looking for a product like this.
Is this a joke? I just moved here from the NYC area. This place is dry as a bone. You obviously don't know real humidity.
NYC is dry as a bone compared to New Orleans, so what's your point? Drive down to Phoenix if you want to see a dry place. Silicon Valley is "fairly humid" - it's all relative.
Don't trust a conveyor belt salesman who says it is not. He will say anything to get the product sold. If that conveyor belt is made of something non-conductive, plastic bins placed on it will generate static
Where did you get all this about conveyor belts? An SMT line includes no belts of the kind you're describing. The only thing vaguely like it would be the steel conveyer used inside the oven (it's sort of like chain-link fencing).
well, not for nothing, but you also can't say that the failure was not due to elves or car key gnomes.
Somebody mod parent up please - this was EXACTLY the point of my post, and this is the only reader to get it. The reason I sent this question to askslashdot was because I figured there must be at least ONE person out there who has some scientific evidence wrt ESD. Notice that every singele +5 in this story contains NO real evidence - just anecdotal reports of lower defect rates and lots of vague warnings about "latent effects". The only papers I could find on Google were written by guys who sell static control products.
IVAGINAL? Is that the new iBrator for men?