Component MP3/OGG Players?

RJV asks: "I currently have a rather large digital music collection. It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends. I have built a rather cheap mp3 server to store all of the music on and I listen to it on my machines rather easily. However, I'm looking for a better solution for accessing and playing from the archive in my living room. I currently have a linux box that uses the TV as a monitor. I can use it fine to play mp3/ogg files through the home theater, but mostly because I know where the buttons are in xmms. (640x480 isn't the best resolution for xmms). I've looked into multiple other projects, such as Aurian Music Manager and Freevo (the computer also has a TV in card) but have not been satisfied with their performance and/or ease of use, especially when trying to use my Universal Remote Control. So, I've decided that perhaps the best course of action for the living room is to purchase a stand-alone component that will integrate with my current system. What are my options and are there any experiences within the community with these products?"

"I'd like to find a product that has the following features (in order of importance).

1. Ethernet Connectivity (NFS/SAMBA/something Linux can share out)
2. Intuitive/Easy-to-Use Interface
3. IR Remote Control (so I can use my Universal Remote)
4. Ability to play mp3s and oggs
5. TV display capabilities (may fall under Intuitive Interface)
6. Digital Out
7. CDR capabilities

1-4 are my must-haves. 5-7 would be nice."

Comments

Ewww but

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard Microsoft has a media center edition product coming out. I would hope it covers all formats.

http://www.microsoft.com/mediacenter

Re:Ewww but

[Anonymous Coward]

yep microsoft does a great job supporting other non-propriatary formats

Re:Ewww but

[einTier]

I know that some people are using APEX DVD players. However, I'm not 100% sure they play ogg. I found a reference to this modification here, about halfway down the page, and supposedly the hack is on this page.

The DVD drive is apparently IDE, and since the APEX natively plays mp3s burned to a CD, you can simply rip out the DVD drive and replace it with a IDE hard drive that contains your mp3s. Since it was meant to work with televisions and entertainment systems, it integrates easily and works rather well. It's also cheap, as you can find APEX DVD players as low as $50-100 US.

So, for $50 + hard drive, you get:
2. Intuitive/Easy-to-Use Interface
3. IR Remote Control (so I can use my Universal Remote)
4. Ability to play mp3s (you might get ogg, do some research)
5. TV display capabilities (may fall under Intuitive Interface)
6. Digital Out

You will not get
1. Ethernet Connectivity (NFS/SAMBA/something Linux can share out)
7. CDR capabilities.

Seems like a nice, cheap solution.

Re:Ewww but

[Anonymous Coward]

I would buy the escient fireball. It's a great piece that would do allmost everything you asked. It also includes Sirrus radio for free.

Re:Ewww but

[Vulturejoe]

I doubt it will work well, anyway. If you look at the answer to the fourth question on the Q&A page, it says:

Media Center PCs running Windows XP Media Center Edition deliver the full power and functionality you expect from Windows XP.

So it probably won't work well, if it'll work at all.

Nicely put

[Anonymous Coward]

"...or have borrowed from friends."

At least you're honest about it... Truly commendable.

Re:Nicely put

[lizzybarham]

But who cares? apparently. I mean, I uncovered evidence that a co-worker used someone else's credit card to view porn on the net. He also told me he downloads mp3, burns cd's, and sells them to friends. I gave this info to the FBI and wetip.com but they didn't do anything.

Re:Nicely put

[Anonymous Coward]

and you're an asshole. who fucking cares.

Re:Nicely put

[lizzybarham]

That's a good question. If the RIAA and FBI fail to enforce mp3 pirating and credit card identity theft, they should not complain.

What the RIAA and MPAA (motion pictures) should do is place undercover agents in the field and use honey-pots to help place these people under arrest.

Re:Nicely put

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderate -1 Dirty Fink

x10 + andromeda

[lo_fye]

I'd recommend keeping your current setup, getting a mouse-remote from x10, and using a web-based app (1 file!) called Andromeda which dynamically creates playlists of audio & video files and streams them to your default player. It's awesome! This whole setup will cost you like $30 or so, and you'll be able to control your music with a remote :)

Re:x10 + andromeda

[KILNA]

A good web interface does not make for a good video / music player interface. Mousing using a remote is cumbersome and error-prone, especially if you have to select a bunch of small checkboxes to play the files you want. I get the impression the asker wants to know if there is something out there with an interface polished specifically for an AV component situation, which usually means navigating with button presses (and often without even a GUI for simple media functions like fast forward and pause).

Re:x10 + andromeda

[turnstyle]

In the name of full disclosure, the parent to this post is by a longtime Andromeda user, who went on to write this profile for Shift.com.

One other tip I'd like to toss into the soup: remote desktop software (VNC, XP's Remote Desktop, pcAnywhere, etc...) can be quite handy for remotely controlling audio on a server. For instance, I keep a spare PC running Andromeda in the corner, wired to my stereo, and I remotely control it with my laptop over wi-fi. One neat thing about that approach is that it'll work with any audio source (such as other web sites, Rhapsody, internet radio, etc).

-Scott

Re:x10 + andromeda

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can change the web interface there are key shortcuts for most things, and javascript can be written to pick up on presses of all keys...

Hey... wait a minute. Come back here!

Re:x10 + andromeda

[KILNA]

Exactly. People often fall into the trap of "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". I'm a perl web application programmer by trade, so I'm by no means immune. Perl has enough utility to be referred to as a "swiss army chainsaw", and the web has become the most ubiquitous application platform ever created. That doesn't mean it makes sense for me to build an interface to flush toilets or operate vehicles through CGI (even with JavaScript to patch up the misgivings of HTML forms).

Re:x10 + andromeda

[turnstyle]

Humbly, I think you'll find Andromeda to be quite handy. Picture this: a central box running a web server. Among other things, it stores your whole MP3/OGG collection. You can use any browser on your local network to tap into and stream from the archive. Furthermore, if you have decent upstream bandwidth you could simply play your files from *anywhere* on the Internet.

And the clients don't need ay special software (apart from a browser and a player).

Finally, I use remote desktop software to 'hit play' on the server itself (which is wired to the stereo).

So, with one central server, I can play MP3's over my LAN, out over the net, and remotely to my stereo.

I'd like to see you do that with a toilet ;)

-Scott

Re:x10 + andromeda

[KILNA]

The problem isn't that he feels tied down to using special software, or that he needs to be able to access his media from anywhere on the net. Though laudable concepts that your software addresses very well, they have nothing to do with his problem: he needs an interface that suits the task (specifically ease of use with a remote control). The web is great for creating applications that can be accessed from a variety of hardware configurations and locations. The web is not suited for applications which have a specific human interface limitation such as a hand-held remote, voice control, small screens, etc. I'm not saying that it is impossible to support them, just that interface limitations will usually result in one of 3 possibilities:

1. An inefficient rich interface (accessing common thinga will be more difficult than neccessary)
2. An efficient light interface (people with the capability of a rich interface will be anchored to the lowest common denominator)
3. Forking the code to tune it for two separate interfaces

If you fork, in most cases you may as well develop an application-specific product instead (one interface inevitably ends up as the red-headed stepchild). Catering to the lowest common denominator is the goal of the web*, but it still isn't trimmed down enough to make for good use of a hand-held remote control. Using a mouse-remote is cumbersome and error-prone, and seems silly since the regular clicker is already suited for the purpose, familiar, easy to use... especially if all you're doing is playing media files.

You have a fine product I'm sure. It could even support this user's baseline requirements with some hacking, hardware notwithstandingm (I get the impression that he's looking for an actual box). But I stand by my notion that a browser is not an ideal interface when your only input device is a clicker (mouse-enabled or not).

* For proof, see geocities

Re:x10 + andromeda

[turnstyle]

fwiw, the remote control solution that I'm suggesting actually has little to do with my software -- it'll work with any server-side audio application.

IHMO, the ability to remotely contol the desktop of another box, whose sound out is patched into a stereo can be very handy. Simply think of the remote desktop client as a universal remote contolling the server.

And with respect to my software -- because it was designed to scale to any sized screen, you should even be able to squeeze it into a remote desktop client on something like a wi-fi enabled pocket PC.

In any case, I just think the idea of using remote desktop software (such as VNC, and Win XP's Remote Desktop) should at least worth keeping in the bag-of-tricks.

-Scott

Re:x10 + andromeda

[wstott]

I have to agree with this point. The interface for the type of equipment is well established and ergonomic, the remote or clicker.The problem is not with the interface but with the lack of interface. The man wants his clicker empowered, not a new audio-video interface. I do not know of a product that allows universal-remote control of a Linux PC. Perhaps looking into what folk have done with IR on linux. I presume someone has their PC telling their Furby what to say. The TV remote would not be a stretch.

Re:x10 + andromeda

[stevey]

Sure which is why I didn't offer my own MP3 / OGG Vorbis streaming server as a solution. In fact I haven't plugged it at all ;)

I've been working for a while on a bootable Debian based-cdrom which will mount any partitions it finds upon a disk, search them for media then automatically set itself up as a streamer.

I think that'd be kinda cool .. Most of the simple stuff is working now - but I can't settle upon a good user interface..

Re:x10 + andromeda

[turnstyle]

"The interface for the type of equipment is well established and ergonomic, the remote or clicker.The problem is not with the interface but with the lack of interface. The man wants his clicker empowered, not a new audio-video interface."

I'm not quite sure if you're calling for a new interface or not. In any case, the remote clicker is certainly a well established interface (which is indeed a good thing), but that doesn't make it ideal (consider the rotary phone). The clicker was also developed for a different task - not for browsing through a large archive of files.

"I do not know of a product that allows universal-remote control of a Linux PC."

WRT the sort of remote control I'm talking about, VNC should do the trick.

I have a setup similar to the original poster's. My soultion was simply to use my wi-fi laptop to remote control the desktop of the server. That approach could prove quite handy & save him a lot of money...

Re:x10 + andromeda

[mudfly]

Andromeda is good for streaming, but caries a huge overhead if you are just looking for a jukebox. There is no jukebox daemon that randomly selects songs from the archive, The code is closed source and the author refuses to let you hack it for personal use, if you go the VNC route you have to install X11.

Andromeda is a bad solution for a box of minimal power. I have a 133mhz machine with 32mb ram with no X11. I have been trying to work with the Otto2 project, but this seams to have died.

Re:x10 + andromeda

[turnstyle]

"Andromeda is good for streaming, but caries a huge overhead if you are just looking for a jukebox."

If the load feels too large on your 133mhz/32mb box, Andromeda might not be right for you. My spare 'server' is an old 200mhz laptop, and it feels just fine to me. fwiw, much of Andromeda's design has also focused on keeing it simple to set up, and simple to maintain (another type of overhead to consider).

"There is no jukebox daemon that randomly selects songs from the archive"

fwiw, I just let my MP3 player do the shuffle -- I also periodically right-click the play button at the 'top' of my collection and save everything in one big playlist file, and I open that into my player & shuffle. Quite handy, actually.

"The code is closed source and the author refuses to let you hack it for personal use"

That's true. Perhaps we should save the GPL debate for another thread? ;) I'm doing my best to run the project as professionally as possible -- there's lots of documentation, I answer loads of support questions, and IMHO GPL isn't right for me.

-Scott

TV as a linux display

[tokki]

Keep in mind that a TV will loose about 30% of the resolution on a TV. While NTSC is 640x480, the optical effect of interlacing (your computer monitor is non-interlaced, more commonly referred to as as progressive) the TV screen appears to be about 448x336.

Interlacing is why TV looks "flickery" and why it looks horrible when you plug your computer's TV-out into the TV.

Re:TV as a linux display

[Anonymous Coward]

If the TV is loose, you should tighten it -- or learn to spell.

Re:TV as a linux display

[Osty]

Keep in mind that a TV will loose about 30% of the resolution on a TV. While NTSC is 640x480, the optical effect of interlacing (your computer monitor is non-interlaced, more commonly referred to as as progressive) the TV screen appears to be about 448x336.

And that's why you buy a TV with HD inputs, and a VGA to Component transcoder. That way, you can get progressive scan resolutions (480p, 720p if you buy a TV that supports it), or higher resolutions (1080i, while interlaced, is still pretty good -- 540p, which is based off of 1080i and really is still interlaced, is also pretty nice). And the most important part -- you don't need a separate video-out card to do composite or s-vid to your TV. This works with any standard VGA port, and requires no software support at all (well, aside from being able to manipulate your resolutions, but PowerStrip does that, and while it's Windows-only software, it can spit out X modelines, so you can use it in a roundabout way to do Linux.

Re:TV as a linux display

[meatplow]

Isn't NTSC 720x480 ?

Thanks

Re:TV as a linux display

[tokki]

Naw, NTSC (analog) isn't a specific resoltion, but NTSC digital is 640x480. Some digital SDTV and DTV documentation says 720x480, others say 640x480 but it shows up on a TV screen as 640x480, otherwise it would be distorted/stretched, as 720x480 isn't 4:3 aspect ratio. My digital camcorder import program says 720x480, but it still shows up as 640x480. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but I believe the extra 80 pixels are the extra signals that NTSC carries, except on the other axis (NTSC is 525 lines, not 480.. but the lines after 480 are used for encoding/signaling).

Re:TV as a linux display

[Comen]

That would be the best answer, I would think for this guys problem.
I recently just purchased a ATI 8500DV video card and am waiting on the component output dongle to arrive in the mail.
I am hoping that it will let me use the ATI card to do 1080i to my HDTV.
I know that I could have just bought a transcoder and used a utility like powerstip to get the right resolution from any video card, but wanted to try this to see what's up.
The drivers so far look really sweet and have setting for 1080i built right into them, just cant even use the drivers unless you use the ATI adapter (dongle) for some reason.
I am hoping that this will actually let me read the text on my TV screen from my PC.
And if it works Ill try to post back here to let people know, I should get the dongle tomorrow.

Re:TV as a linux display

[Osty]

From everything I've read (AVS Forums, Home Theater Spot), the ATI dongle seems to be a little flakey. For my money (and I know $200 >> $30), a proper VGA to Component transcoder is the way to go. Way fewer headaches. Though ATIs suck for custom resolutions, so expect to deal with a bit of overscan. It looks like the best solution right now is to pick up a WinPVR or WinPVR 250 and an nVidia GeForce-based card, a VGA->Component transcoder, and PowerStrip. I'm still dealing with my AIW 7500, though.

Now to wait for AT&T to bring HD to digital cable, and then find some way to get that into the HTPC ...

Motorola

[kerneljacabo]

Motorola makes a kick ass component mp3 player. Not sure of the name but my friend has one and its amazing!!

Re:Motorola

[Anonymous Coward]

The product is called SimpliFi. Pretty slick.

http://commerce.motorola.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ Pr oductDisplay?prrfnbr=232843&prmenbr=126&bcs_cgrfnb r=230509&zipcode=

Re:Motorola

[Karamchand]

hm. I searched around a bit but couldn't find anything.. could you please ask your friend what this little thing's name is? Thank you very much!

Re:Motorola

[zenshine]

It is called the Motorola Simplefi

http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/1,102 31 ,0-6928060-311-9050945,00.html

Re:Motorola

[Anonymous Coward]

Mot's official site:

http://www.gi.com/noflash/simplefi.html

Winamp

[Hi_2k]

Much as i hate to say it, it is probably a good idea to use a computer with windows and winamp 2.x. also, a ati all in wonder video card will allow good tv out so you can properly veiw it. 640*480 will work with this, and some tv's should even get a 800*640 resoultion.

Re:Winamp

[supremo]

Why? I have linux running on a spacewalker in my livingroom. It rocks! I use mplayer and xmms. What else do I need? I share/get files via NFS and Samba.
I can tell you that when it comes to watching video files mplayer kicks windows mediaplayers ass! Takes all the formats and has a much better interface when you sit in your sofa. I have a nice little black IR keyboard acting as my remote. It just rocks!

Re:Winamp

[athakur999]

Winamp 3 would be a good choice as well, if only because you can scale the interface to any size. When scaled to 400% it'd be pretty easy to hit the buttons even with a remote control as your mouse.

Otherwise Winamp 3 is a dog...

Screw Ethernet....

[Skyshadow]

An 802.11b connection would be even better -- I don't want to run ethernet just for my stereo (everything else in my house uses 802.11)

Re:Screw Ethernet....

[DavesError]

(everything else in my house uses 802.11)

Including your neighbors.

Re:Screw Ethernet....

[garcia]

sure, we use that here. Due to interference, WindowsXP wlan support sucking (don't argue w/me, I have proven that it is XP), and the expense of running 802.11 there's no real reason to worry about it, especially if you have 100 fucking wires behind your stereo anyway.

Re:Screw Ethernet....

[ethanms]

"...especially if you have 100 fucking wires behind your stereo anyway"

so what's one more?

Re:Screw Ethernet....

[DJPenguin]

101? :)

XMMS size

[Anonymous Coward]

I currently have a linux box that uses the TV as a monitor. I can use it fine to play mp3/ogg files through the home theater, but mostly because I know where the buttons are in xmms. (640x480 isn't the best resolution for xmms).

Double the view

SliMP3...

[Zarbuck]

It is not exactly what you want for but you should give it a look... http://www.slimdevices.com/

Re:SliMP3...

[notanatheist]

Damn, beat me to it. Really, it is the best way to go. You just need an Ethernet to run in and output to any receiver or powered speakers. Nice bright vacuum flourescent display and includes a Sony universal remote. So there you go. Slimdevices.com. Get yours today. I would if I had $250 laying around. :p

Re:SliMP3...

[liquidice5]

u know u will use this
lol
http://www.slimdevices.com

Re:SliMP3...

[Anonymous Coward]

I second the Slimpy.. I have had mine about 6 months and it has changed my life!

Re:SliMP3...

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it interesting how they post almost all of the manufacturing process. That's something of a rarity.

Re:SliMP3...

[jovlinger]

If you're into building from components, I'd suggest picking up a pre-hacked i-opener from ebay (expect to pay ~ $70-100 +s/h depending on size of included hd and quality of work).

The midori for iopener image (see google for url) gives you a web browser, xmms, and a linux kernel that can drive: kawasaki/pegasus based usb ethernet; linksys wusb11v2.5 (important about the v number. 2.6 is in stores now, and won't work) 802.11b; usb audio out.

The i-opener comes with an acceptable 800x600 lcd and a crappy ps/2 keyboard+mouse combo.

So you can start cheap and use the built in audio and a netgear ea101 for ~ $100 (NB: the iopener doesn't have audio out, so that has to be hacked in. Trivial hack, but needs to be done if you don't want to use usb audio) and grow it to have wireless network and spdif output for another $100, when you feel you want that.

The only drawback is that I haven't figured out how to turn off the backlight (or more accurately, turn it back on again), but the thing boots to xmms in about a minute, so that's not a killer.

Re:SliMP3...

[Anonymous Coward]

The only drawback is that I haven't figured out how to turn off the backlight (or more accurately, turn it back on again)

The only drawback is that I haven't yet determined how to correctly power-cycle the backlight.

Re:SliMP3...

[ethanms]

I dunno... just regular line level outputs? no spdif?

I know we're looking for simple... and I'll admit that the display looks sleek... but this seems TOO simple... I'd be looking for additional functionality from it...

Re:SliMP3...

[PrinceBytor]

I had many of the same requirements when I started working on my own digital jukebox. Today, the hardware is operational in my living room and all of the foundation code is in place. Before everybody berates me for not using Linux, I am happy with WindowsXP for this application... I am using Tomcat... Both my wife and I find ourselves actually listening to our large music collection more frequently since I connected the jukebox to our stereo. The on-screen menu system makes access to the collection easy and the digital audio out produces excellent sound quality to my (non-audiophilic) ears.

BTW - yes I am even using the HomeTheater Master MX-500 universal remote..

Re:SliMP3...

[Karamchand]

It's just too expensive. I mean whatfor are those 250USD? One small circuit board with some ICs, one nice display (ok, probably this one is expensive, but not _that_ expensive) a remote control and some cables..
Admittedly, I am not from the US, and outside of the US the USD is worth even more.. :-/

Re:SliMP3...

[zieroh]

I second (or third, or whatever) the vote for the SliMP3 from www.slimdevices.com. I was looking for the same kind of device, and the SliMP3 meets most of my requirements. Super simple, sounds great, and all the software is open source. Plus, you can also push music to it from any web browser on your network.

Good luck, but maybe...

[Logic Bomb]

From what I've seen, there aren't any component devices out there that a) do what you want, and b) don't cost an arm and a leg. In the mean time, you might just burn MP3s to cd-rw discs and use a cheapo DVD player. For the money, it's probably the best solution.

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds as if you work for the RIAA. who cares if the RIAA reads slashdot. I hope they do then atleast they will understand why they have such bad press.

The uselessness of MP3/OGG audio systems

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, are you so much into your music that you want to have it at your beck and call any time of the day, but not enough of an audiophile to rip the files into raw WAV format for purer playback?

Save the money you want to spend here and buy a new computer or a Playstation or go on a vacation. Better yet, buy a digital camera and then go on vacation. Lots of nice memories to be had if you save your pennies.

Ethernet Connectivity (NFS/SAMBA/something Linux can share out)
Intuitive/Easy-to-Use Interface
IR Remote Control (so I can use my Universal Remote)
Ability to play mp3s and oggs
TV display capabilities (may fall under Intuitive Interface)
Digital Out
CDR capabilities

I believe that your average Windows box has most of these features, sans the IR Remote. But I guess it's not really a stereo component.

If you are really interested in building something like this yourself, look into Windows CE. You can download the kit for free and start building almost immediately. It's got all those features built into the OS and it's really easy to build and get running. Much easier than the sparsely documented embedded Linux distros.

Does anyone else...

[fungus]

find it ironic that the "Ability to play mp3s and oggs" comes in fourth position (in order of importance)?

I mean, it is better if the device is user friendly and can't play mp3/ogg than if it isnt user friendly and do everything you want?

Re:Does anyone else...

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe his list wasnt in exact order of importance. of coures he needs that. probably just emphasizing the fact the it needs to play ogg too.

Re:Does anyone else...

[pyite]

1 - 4 as a group is a "must have." They're all conditional on each other, so there really is no order to them. You can't have one without the other.

Re:Does anyone else...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you could fucking look up the definition of ironic before your spewing mouth dribbles out more retardation like that.

Re:Does anyone else...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you could fucking look up the definition of retardation before your spewing mouth dribbles out more irony like that.

--Irony being that you know what words mean when, in fact, you do not.

this is a hard thing to do... i've tried

[kochsr]

the turtle beach audiotron satisfies almost everything here but the tv out.

(remote, digital out, mp3, no ogg from what i remember, but ethernet)

the pc is really the way to go (just run xmms at double size w/ the playlist up... it just about takes up the whole screen. i think the audiotron would be a killer piece if it had tv out capabilities

anyway... i haven't heard of anyone who is REALLY happy with ogg when it comes to decoding their songs on things other than PCs. FACE IT, there just aren't many things out there that decode ogg, and mp3 is just easier to use right now. (just use lame at alt-preset-extreme)

Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[seanadams.com]

Based on your criteria, The SliMP3 Ethernet MP3 player is almost exactly what you're looking for:

• Very easy to set up and use
  
• Open source.
  
• Excellent software - handles collections of any size (some guys are using this with 400+GB disk arrays).
  
• Platform-independent
  
• Big, bright, vacuum fluorescent display, instead of a crappy LCD
  
• No fans or any moving parts - totally quiet
  

Check out the full specs...

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[crazney]

or NOT...

Your web page doesnt say anything about OGG support, so I'm guessing its NOT what he's looking for.

craz ;-)

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[seanadams.com]

Your web page doesnt say anything about OGG support, so I'm guessing its NOT what he's looking for.

Actually, the web site *does* mention ogg, right in the FAQ. We get a lot of requests for this, and we would love to support the format. Here's the full story:

The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.

However, what we DO support is transcoding from ogg to high-bit-rate MP3, if your server is fast enough to support it. Yes, we all know that transcoding from one lossy format to another is bad, but 320Kbps MP3 is not going to introduce any significant new artificacts on top of an ogg stream.

That's the best we can do, until somebody comes up with an inepensive way to decode ogg. The feature works on Unix systems that have lame and ogg123 installed, but we don't list it as a supported feature because it doesn't work on Windows (yet).

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

How much more would it cost to pop an SA1100 running at 125MHz in one of those boxes? Wouldn't an ARM720 reach over 75MHz?

What's the limitation?

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[seanadams.com]

Hard to say exactly, but last I checked, a suitable ARM SOC in our kind of volume would run about $20. That's just for the chip - you also need a few MB of SDRAM and flash, a DAC, and possibly a separate Ethernet chip, depending on which chip you choose. Also you might need a little microcontroller in there to handle things like IR reception and the display interface. This is pretty much the architecture of the Audiotron and some other network players, though I don't think any of them support vorbis. Don't forget, there's a lot of other stuff going on in the CPU on those machines, as they do all the indexing and UI work on the client.

All in all, it works out to a much higher BOM. I tried to keep the electronics as lean as possible, so I could splurge on the display and still offer a generally better product than the "big guys".

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[aronc]

The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.

Just wondering.. is this before or after the integer only decoder that they released?

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Alien Being]

"what we DO support is transcoding from ogg to high-bit-rate MP3"

Why not send the decoded ogg over the wire in raw format? It's only about 1.3Mb/sec, just a fraction of a 10BaseT.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

This would have to be after since most of the processors being discussed in that range don't have floating point units. I don't see anything but a pure integer routine being able to do ogg with that little processor power.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[mcspock]

this is after, the reference for this is the cirrus ep7312 which has a ~ 74mhz arm core.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[seanadams.com]

Why not send the decoded ogg over the wire in raw format?

We're working with Micronas to get a firmware image for the decoder chip that will let it do this (basically, a "null codec"). No luck yet, though the rest of the system is fast enough to handle the data rate.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[mcspock]

You actually can decode ogg on something smaller than a 75mhz arm, it just depends on what else you are doing. The integer version they released runs in

Someone else suggests streaming wav files, but i'm guessing you dont have enough ram to buffer that and on networks with mild congestion you'd get dropouts. Transcoding is really not good for audio quality, for those who consider the above to be a viable option.

As a side note, you mention that it's not possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format, but that's not correct - iRiver will likely add ogg to their devices (which are mostly cirrus based). Also you dont really have an inexpensive device ($250 is a lot, since you aren't handing out 30% margins to retailers on this).

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

$250 for that? Not a chance, there's nothing there that justifies it over competing products.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[grahams]

Just wondering.. is this before or after the integer only decoder that they released?

Did you actually read what you responded to?

And I quote: The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation)

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[mlong]

The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.

I don't know if it helps or not but there has been a lot of optimization since Tremor has been released. You may find it runs much faster now. You may want to review the list archives.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[stygar]

Do the math again. 10BaseT is 10 _megabits_ per second, not megabytes. 10 megabits/sec = 1.28 megabytes/second And that's the theorectical max, which you won't get in any real world application, and it doesn't take into account the overheadfor the transfer protocols, etc. You might be able to try this on a 100BaseT network, if you didn't care about one device hogging that much bandwidth on your home network.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he is in fact correct (or damn close). The data rate for an uncompressed CD quality stream is exactly:

16 bits per sample
x2 channels (left and right)
x44100 samples per second
=
1411200, or 1.4Mbps (that's megabits per second, not megabytes)

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Who says Alien Being is male? Troubling tendency...

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[nathanh]

You said

Do the math again. 10BaseT is 10 _megabits_ per second, not megabytes.

And he said

Why not send the decoded ogg over the wire in raw format? It's only about 1.3Mb/sec

Little "b" means "bits". 10baseT is plenty of bandwidth for streaming CD audio.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[volsung]

Although other responses to this question have said that even Tremor isn't fast enough, I'd like to mention that Nicholas Pitre on the tremor list has been working a lot on optimizing the tremor decoder since its release. I'd encourage people with one of these boxes and willing to tinker to check out tremor from the Xiph.org CVS server, look through the tremor mail archives, and see if Tremor is still too slow.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Alien Being]

44,100 samples/second # sampling rate
* 16 # bits/sample
= 705,600 # bits/second

That's one channel. Stereo == 1,411,200 bits/second

Even with the overhead of tcp and ftp, 10Baset can typically handle about 8,00,000 bits/second.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[jovlinger]

You may want to look into flac, which is roughly 50% of raw audio, IIRC.

I ASSUME it is fairly cheap to codec.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Alien Being]

Yeah, I never said whether I came from Mars of Venus.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

>, but 320Kbps MP3 is no going to introduce any significant new artificacts.
Except a streamlined bass and a none existing stereo image.
Using MP3 at high Kbps makes no sence, it's easy for anyone to spot the difference compared to cd-audio, yet the MP3 file size at 320Kbps compared to cd-audio is very small.
No need to look dumber then you are, you know.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[jshare]

I don't work for the company, but I own the product.

This product kicks all ass. Sure, it's a bit tough to run it on a P100, since so much work is server side, and in perl. But, once you move it to a Celeron333, you basically give up 20% CPU to the server, and then you are all set.

It's really quite a good product. I'm using it in the kitchen (which is frankly where I listen to most of my music.) It's really nice to have 700 albums on tap in the kitchen.

I also use the Audrey for when the remote is out of reach. The web interface is quite good, even without stylesheets. They fixed a bug in it (the web interface) recently, which really goes to highlight how nice it is to have the server software available via CVS. They are incredibly responsive via their mailing list (and yahoo *shudder* forum).

I'm not claiming this is the best slimp3 player (although I'm /certain/ it's very good compared to the competition), because they've had all kinds of shortcomings. But it /is/ open source. Some guy has even developed his own VB version of the server (which, according to his statements, is quite a bit more efficient than the SlimDevices version, albeit win32 only.). This is the most graphic example (to me) of why open source is good.

They accept patches (and, if you are good, CVS updates) from the outside. It's incredibly, incredibly nice to have this kind of flexibility.

Hmmm.. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure this is the first time that I've be consciously aware of benefiting directly from the Open Source nature. Well, I guess I'm a convert now.

This product has gotten nothing but better in the time I've owned it. If you have the infrastructure (server box with access to the mp3s (i use a linux box via samba to my windows box), and ethernet near your stereo), then I think this product is literally the best thing available on the market.

*sigh*...I've been drinking, though, so, grain of NaCl, etc.

Jordan

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, It's actually less than $8 for a
suitable ARM SOC. The slimp3 guys should
be taken out and slapped around for choosing
a hardwired decoder for their box. Cirrus
gives away everything you need for MP3 and
WMA in a small footprint, the fixed point Ogg
code is now free, and I'll bet the ARM would
increase costs by $3.

jeff

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[Anonymous Coward]

how about posting a link to those $8 chips?

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[marko123]

" It's really nice to have 700 albums on tap in the kitchen."

On tap as in beer?

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[miltimj]

The only advantage I see in the SliMP3 is its size.. The big downside I see is that it plays digital music through an analog medium (only RCA, no digital out). That's enough for me never to buy it, and a serious gap in the feature set. Go Audiotron - if I weren't completely remodeling my house, I'd have one by now.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company.

[jshare]

No, on tap as in speech.

Wait, what?

Jordan

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

"it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends"

It is legal to borrow music to friends. It is legal to make mix tapes for friends. The only reason why you question its legality (if this wasn't a joke post) after enjoying your freedom for so long is because the RIAA *has* made people everywhere accept the flawed doctrine that digital rights are fundamentally different from analog rights.

I say sharing music with friends is the same, whether you use a tape or a CDR.

SliMP3

[Speare]

I really like the SliMP3, a simple mp3-decoding terminal. One perl server on any machine in your LAN can serve multiple SliMP3s, either in concert or independently. Any machine in the LAN can command or browse the server, or the standard remote control can command or browse through the unit.

But... they don't do OGG. Hopefully someday.

Re:SliMP3

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, too bad it doesn't do ogg. I'd definatly be sold otherwise.

Re:SliMP3

[Zarbuck]

Would it not be possible to get it to play ogg? I believe that after all of the SliMp3 is just a dumb term and has all of the work done for it on the computer that is its server and isn't the server program for it open source? I am really not sure and have not read much more than the Tom's Hardware review for this unite but how I see it is all of the decoding is done by the server application on your computer and then sent to the SliMp3. The SliMp3 is just an interface between you computer and the speakers with a nice screen. So assuming that I have not missed and facts here and you really want your SliMp3 to play ogg why don't you do it? Go learn how ogg decompression works and get the server program to support ogg. I mean if you want something done do it your self.

Re:SliMP3

[gmhowell]

If you have a fast enough processor, you can transcode the ogg into an mp3.

Read the slimp3 discussion boards about this.

Re:SliMP3

[Speare]

It can't play ogg unless transcoded on the pc server. It's a hardware mp3 decoder. The pc server doesn't send waveform to the terminal, it sends mp3 chunks to the terminal to be decoded.

Re:SliMP3

[ideut]

serve multiple SliMP3s, either in concert or independently.

This sounds interesting. When you say "in concert", do you mean
that the music output is perfectly synchronized on each device?
So I can have several of these things around the house, and not
get nasty echoing effects when I play the same tunes out of all of them at once? I had assumed that the various buffering at different stages along the way would make this impossible.

Re:SliMP3

[seanadams.com]

This sounds interesting. When you say "in concert", do you mean
that the music output is perfectly synchronized on each device?
So I can have several of these things around the house, and not
get nasty echoing effects when I play the same tunes out of all of them at once? I had assumed that the various buffering at different stages along the way would make this impossible.


That is correct. Of course there are practical limitations due to network and OS latency on the server, but it gets very close to perfect sync. When the stream initially starts up, it is synchronized to within 2ms (that's roughly two feet at the speed of sound). So as you walk from room to room, you won't hear any reverb/echo effect. This effect only becomes noticeable to the untrained ear at about 75ms, and annoying at about 100ms. At 2ms, it's probably less than the delay between your two speakers!

After multiple players have been running for a long time (about 12-24 hrs) they may drift out of sync a little. However, it resyncs every time you switch tracks, so drift is not a problem unless you're using this for an unusual application where you need perfect sync with a continuous stream, for days on end.

In case you were wondering, the UI for this is also pretty itneresting. When multiple SliMP3s are grouped together, they all share the same playback queue. However, music browsing and player-specific things like brightness/volume can all be controlled independently. When you hit fast forward/stop/pause etc, all the players repsond in unison.

Re:SliMP3

[Tokerat]

This is very very cool. I wish, however, they offered alternative case designs. A rack mount would be nice (well, for me) and maybe a nicer display, I dunno, maybe Apple will make an Airport compatable one as part of their "Digital Hub" ;-)

Very cool stuff, however.

Re:Slimp3

[Noodlenose]

Slimp3 works really well, exactly the right solution to this problem

Although butt-ugly, this actually looks like it could be really useful. 249 chunkies is not too bad either.

Mmhhh, a new gadget...

Re:Slimp3

[wstott]

SliMP3 is the answer to the orgininal question. That thing looks handy. Give it a PCMCIA slot for Wi-Fi and it would be really useful, and $499.

Re:Slimp3

[merchant_x]

That's a slick device the only things it needs is Ogg support and for my tastes WiFi. Who wants to run cat 5 to their stereo?

Re:SliMP3

[ideut]

Thanks for the info. I think I'll pick a couple up next time I'm on holiday in the States.

Re:Slimp3

[stickyc]

SliMP3 does not yet appear to support OGG (at least as far as I can tell from their website), which was one of the poster's requirements (and I dare say the most limiting, for an 'off the shelf' solution). Turtle Beach's Audiotron falls in the same category, everything the poster wants, except no OGG support.

slimdevices.com

[chunkwhite86]

has a device called SliMP3 which is an ethernet connected MP3 decoder. I have one and it's great for integrating the MP3 collection with the component stereo. Has a Perl based server software I believe. No current Ogg support, but I've heard its in the works.

Disclaimer: I'm not afiliated with slimdevices.com in any way other than being a satisfied customer.

Network your computer to your stereo!

[QaBOjk]

with this

New /. category?

[dillon_rinker]

"Ask Slashdot How To Break the Law"

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends (emphasis added)

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright. If you want your own copy of the music, buy it. If you have a problem with the law, write to your local congress critter. If you want to commit civil disobedience, do so boldly and publicly and be prepared to go to jail. If you want to besmirch the reputation of slashdot, ask everyone to help you violate copyright law.

I can guarantee that the RIAA will be keeping a hard copy of this thread for their files..."See, those Linux geeks talk about 'freedom' but really what they want is to break the law or destroy copyright." And in this case, the facts are on their side.

Friends don't make friends accomplices.

P.S. "Personal use" doesn't mean "me and my friends." It means "me only." Copies for personal use are for use only by you.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright. If you want your own copy of the music, buy it. If you have a problem with the law, write to your local congress critter. If you want to commit civil disobedience, do so boldly and publicly and be prepared to go to jail. If you want to besmirch the reputation of slashdot, ask everyone to help you violate copyright law.

Depends... If the guy's in Canada then this is perfectly legal, and I suspect he is since he made the distinction that he 'borrowed from friends'. As long as you're the one making the copy, it doens't matter who owns it, it's only if someone else makes it for you that it's illegal.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok. We all know he is probably lying and has tons of illegal copies. BUT, I think the lie he tried to say is more like "have borrowed from friends" *and are still in my posession and I decided to have them in mp3 because it is more conveniant with me so-hot setup and of course I will delete all mp3 copies when I return the CDs to my friends.*

He could have made that clearer, but what's the point, we all know he is lying about it all anyway :)

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well then, I'm definitely in the clear. I made copies when I transferred the bits down from the Internet.

*whew* I was worried that I was breaking copyright law, but your explanation of the law put my mind at ease.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

I took it to mean that he borrowed cds from friends, ripped them and then erased the files off his computer when he returned the cd.

Re:New /. category?

[Hektor_Troy]

That actually depends on where this guy is from. If he's from the US, then you're probably right. If he's from Denmark, he could have gone to the library, hauled cd's home by the truckload, ripped them and he'd still be on the right side of the law, as long as he doesn't let anyone borrow his copies.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Fair Use" is what allows you to read a book to your child or borrow a book from the library. "Fair Use" are based on real rights that are granted to real people rather than the priviledge of copyright which only exists at the sufferage and discretion of congress. Fair use means you can listen to music with someone else even though only one person paid for it. As such, making a copy of someone elses music, sharing with a friend, seems a logical and reasonable extension of the principles of fair use and the should be part of the basic right and dignity that all humans should enjoy.

Re:New /. category?

[ddent]

Under Canadian copyright law, he'd be fine AFAIK. Don't assume everyone lives where you do :).

Re:New /. category?

[coyul]

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends (emphasis added)

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright.

Not in Canada, it isn't. We pay a levy (that goes directly to music publishers) every time we purchase recordable media. In exchange, we can make copies of CDs (and not just CDs we own) for personal use (so I can't, for example, make copies and sell or probably even give them away...)

Some details are here: http://pcbuyersguide.com/hardware/storage/2003_Lev y_FAQ.html. Note particularly question 18 and the answer. Also note that even though the date says 2003, that's only because there's a proposed rate increase. We've been paying this levy since 1998 or so. The link I had for the full text of the Copyright Act, including the amendments from 1998, unfortunately appears to be broken, but if you can find it, the relevant text is in Part VIII: Private Copying.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're sarcastic, but the words you typed are correct.

Re:New /. category?

[seann]

on a side note, he probably doesn't care.
like many of my friends, the difference between their friends cds, and their friends cds on their harddrive is nada, niltch, nill, null, negative, nothing, not-a-thing.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

The RIAA is an American organisation and its jurisdiction ends there. Like many billions of people on Earth, I am not subject to the copyright laws you speak of. Dont assume stuff.

Re:New /. category?

[grumpygrodyguy]

"Ask Slashdot How To Break the Law"

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends (emphasis added)

Ummm...this is illegal, dude.

When did the RIAA partner up with Dell?

Re:New /. category?

[zsmooth]

The RIAA has no jurisdiction. It's not a government institution. It's a company.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not in Canada, it isn't. We pay a levy (that goes directly to music publishers) every time we purchase recordable media. In exchange, we can make copies of CDs (and not just CDs we own) for personal use (so I can't, for example, make copies and sell or probably even give them away...)

oh really? I suppose we americans could claim the same. Correct me if i am wrong, but did I not just hear about 5 companies caught in collusion(sp?) for CD price fixing? *cough*sony*bs* .... take it out of the 18 dollar cds i purchased in the 90.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm why are you being anal about this? Everyone does it and I'm sure you do it too. Besides its not your place to judge his activities. If he would've asked if this was ok then your comment would've been justified, but he didn't and your comment was way off base. I suggest you take some metamucil to take care of the grouchyness.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

by borrowed he meant stolen, so its okay.

Re:New /. category?

[Agthorr]

Are you sure this is illegal? Has there been a court case determining whether this would fall under fair use or not? Could you cite references please?

-- Agthorr

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh, you haven't heard of off-site backup? The copy of the friends' CDs are just off-site backups of the friends' CDs. By listening to them, one is just testing&confirming the integrity of the backup.

Re:New /. category?

[einhverfr]

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright. If you want your own copy of the music, buy it. If you have a problem with the law, write to your local congress critter. If you want to commit civil disobedience, do so boldly and publicly and be prepared to go to jail. If you want to besmirch the reputation of slashdot, ask everyone to help you violate copyright law.


IANAL, but IIRC, the home recording act allows recording off albums you borrow from your friends (or at least grants some immunity from prosecution). I live in the US too so for those who don't your milage may vary. Also, this is different from Napster which could be argued to be more like selling burned albums on the street corner...

So, I guess you's argue that if I quote (*copy*) a part of a book in a school project, I should be paying royalties, right?

Re:New /. category?

[Reece400]

Note the fact, that your government is basically run my large monopolies and organizations,, RIAA, Microseft, et cetera, make most of the descions, all your government does is approve things, and make them look official...

Reece,

Re:New /. category?

[Geekboy(Wizard)]

Dude, you're going to jail!

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

As such, making a copy of someone elses music, sharing with a friend, seems a logical and reasonable extension of the principles of fair use and the should be part of the basic right and dignity that all humans should enjoy.

"DIGNITY"?! Puhleeeez. You're not feeding the hungry or spreading compassion. You're not giving hope or options to the less fortunate people of the world. We're talking about wasteful, hedonistic suburban brats copying CDs, for christ's sake. Yes, they should be allowed to. Yes, laws need to be changed. But these are truly frivolous improvements as long as other truly terrible things are going on. Sharing commercial music isn't a "basic right and dignity"!

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

So is RCA (the Radio Corporation of America) a government institution also?

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuh uh, you big dummy.

Re:New /. category?

[Tremblay99]

Under Canadian copyright law, he'd be fine AFAIK.

No, he wouldn't be. Remember all those cd lending stores that were around about 10 years ago? Haven't seen one in a while? It's 'cause they were shut down (or became used CD stores to sell off their stock) ... for copyright infringement.

Under fair use provisions in Canada, you are not, ever, allowed to copy a work in total that you have not previously purchased (licensed, if you listen to the rights owners). The only exception I know of is time-shifting, i.e., recording a TV show to watch at a later date. You are not, however, supposed to keep that copy indefinitely. You can excerpt from pieces -- generally for academic or journalistic reasons. But I'm assuming dude wasn't doing 30 second snippets of songs for his multimedia course.

Think about it: if Canadians were legally allowed to copy media, we'd still have ICraveTV and Napster would be in Vancouver.

Re:New /. category?

[Anonymous Coward]

So that gives the RIAA jurisdiction?

No. And from the way you say "your government", I assume you don't live in America, and are therefore clueless.

Re:New /. category?

[dabootsie]

Actually, the blank media levies in Canada have changed all that.

We are now legally permitted to copy media we borrow, because we have already paid for it by paying the "tax" on blank media. <sarcasm>Since we're all obviously criminals by default</sarcasm>, the recording industry lobbied to have levies attached to the sale of blank media. I don't think they realized that this would mean we have already paid for our "crimes" and can go ahead and "commit" them.
I'm not surprised you didn't know this, though. It wouldn't be in the industry's best interests to let everyone know.

We can't distribute or share a-la P2P, but we can lend our media to others, who may make copies for themselves and still be permitted to use their copy after returning the original media. They can even turn around and lend their copies out the same way.

We also don't have the DMCA, so feel free to break any copy protection you need to in order to do the copying you're legally entitled to.

Re:New /. category?

[Reece400]

and this is yot another case of Americans thinking that they are the centre of the universe, and that everyone else is clueless, and inferior to them, and could never know anything about them,, because you don't know anything about us... I live in Canada, and when i'm at the airport, i see at least 10 people get of most planes from America wearing parkas et cetera, in the middle of summer, expecting to see igloos everywhere! i'm not saying that you fall under this catergory, but quite a few people from your country do...

Reece,

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. Not legal to make mix tapes. It is tolerated because it is done on a very small scale usually, but it is not and has never been legal.

Your kindergarten morals are no match for grown-up laws.

Re: DTR

[Anonymous Coward]

Let It Be Known, Mascot, Most Of Us Wish The Destruction of Those Organizations Whom Support The RIAA - Regardless.

Re: DTR

[Anonymous Coward]

Moron.

Most Of Us Wish The Destruction of Those Organizations Whom Support The RIAA

"Who support the RIAA"

Try and Audrey

[davinci27]

That's exactly what I['m doing with my audrey. The audrey has a nice touch screen so its easy to use. Mounts nfs/smb shares, has and IR port that you control with a learning remote.

You can buy them for about $100 and with a 32meg CF card update them pretty quickly. Mine has a digital picture frame that runs and pulls random pictures from a share, a full screen mp3/ogg player and a callerid display. It sits beside my sofa so I can get to it easily.

Check out Linux Hacker BBs and audreyhacking.com

Re:Try and Audrey

[Dave500]

On a secondary note - does anybody know where you can source an audrey from the UK?

Tigerdirect will not ship them here due to problems with customs...

Thanks!

Dave.

Re:Try and Audrey

[Anonymous Coward]

lol you guys are crazy. i bought one of those pieces of junk from tiger direct and couldn't believe how lame it was. sold it for $50 profit, but still... i really wouldn't recommend one to anyone. they are just so retarded looking....

Re:Try and Audrey

[davinci27]

How much effort did you put into it. and how long ago was it?

The audrey has mad pretty big advanes. you can basically make a small QNX install with alot of the functionality including USB support for input, configuration utilities, utilities, and more. You can browse the web, watch flash, play mp3s, stream Real and mp3, us it as a callerid, vnc terminal, address book, print to network printers and more

I'll admit when I first got mine a year ago, it took a lot of work to get all these things to work, but now there are cf images that allow you to add all these features in the matter of 10 minutes.

I wouldn't count it out quite so quickly

Re:Try and Audrey

[Anonymous Coward]

its pointless (unless you are a dork) to use it for all that crap. just use a damn PC. browse the web on *that* screen? PLEASE. just because you can, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Re:Try and Audrey

[davinci27]

No tquite true, you can sit an audrey in your living room and use it as a digital pifctureframe. all the other stuff is hidden and only shows when you need it. Mine just shows pictures of family and friends. When I want to play some mp3's, i touch the screen and launch the player. If the phone rings the callerid pops up for a minute, the goes away. It's very useful and functional

Re:Try and Audrey

[mydigitalself]

i would assume that the best use for the audrey would be a glorified touch screen colour uber remote. i mean, if you've got a usb 802.11 in it - you don't want it wired down into your amp.

i've got a system running at home, like a lot of other posts on here, running a linux server and pushing the video out into my tv. nav'ing this with a multi-remote is a little crap.

i think i'm gonna get myself one of these guys and just use it to access http://mymp3server on my lap when i'm sitting on the loo!

iPod

[TenPin22]

I so wish that Apple or Some bright person would add Ogg support to the iPod. The iPod is now supported under Wondows, OS* and Linux and by using Ogg you could fit about twice as much music into the same space by lowering the quality.

I have found that ogg -q 0 (~64Kbit) is as good as 128Kbit Mp3...

Of course the iPod would need discrete math implementation but I believe there is an open one.

Re:iPod

[archen]

I have found that ogg -q 0 (~64Kbit) is as good as 128Kbit Mp3...

I don't know what you're smoking that makes ogg sound that good at that rate, but give me some too. Most of the stuff I encode is q5, and I want to know how good it can get =P

Re:iPod

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with him except -q 1 is the threshhold for me where I can not tell the difference. I encode at -q 1 and can not tell the difference from playing the same tracks on the cd player. It usually makes the music almost half the size of an mp3 at 128kbits/sec.

Just because you can hear a small difference at -q 1 or -q 0, dont assume that others will. At -q 0 the only way I can tell is if I put on head phones and listen really close. At -q 1 I can not tell. That just gives a huge advantage to owning the cds... You can encode them at the rate that you are confortable with.

FlameThrower Linux

[phatvibez]

Here is a project I found a little while ago that is trying to create a Linux distro (actually just a graphical interface) for home theater multimedia devices to be displayed on the TV.

here is the homepage:
http://staff.washington.edu/jmgasper/index.htm

check out the screenshots here, pretty cool looking!:
http://staff.washington.edu/jmgasper/screenshots.h tm

Re:FlameThrower Linux

[Antipop]

That project does look nice, but it's nowhere near complete and you can't even download a beta to work on.

I think the original poster was looking for something he could actually use :).

Re:FlameThrower Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

nice vaporware.

release the code otherwise you're just a fake.

Review

[T-Kir]

Toms Hardware did a review a couple of months ago... a good read, I was thinking about getting it, but now I'm redoing my music in OGG so we'll just have to wait until more hardware players get in on the act and support OGG.

RhythmBox

[The Original Yama]

RhythmBox, perhaps?

AUDIOTRON!!!

[zerofoo]

Info here.

I own two of these. The audiotron works by scanning a windows/samba share...so it will work with linux.

It is audio component sized, uses ethernet or HPNA, is rack-mountable,uses an IR remote control, and turtle beach even publishes the IR codes for programming devices like a Pronto.

I'm not sure about OGG support. My whole collection is MP3, but it does support WMA (groan).

There is no TV out support. It does, however, have an optical digital out, if you choose to use external D/A conversion.

I've been very happy with mine. I got gave away a sonic blue balls device because it required proprietary server software....and the support sucked.

Hope this is helpful.

-ted

Re:AUDIOTRON!!!

[stickyc]

I'll second the positive review of the AT. The poster above didn't mention a couple of other nice features - 'net radio support (which, granted, isn't as cool since the RIAA crashed the party), and NTP-set clock/alarm/snooze functionality. It's also got a decent stereo component design, so it fits well in the stereo rack.
That being said, the AT's not quite perfect - it takes a long time to scan shares and getting it set up with SAMBA always seems to be a PITA, but once things are set up, it's a solid performer.

NTSC Resolution is not

[Anonymous Coward]

640x480, moron.

Re:NTSC Resolution is not

[tokki]

An NTSC signal is analog and doesn't actually have a specific vertical resolution because of the way the images are drawn, only a horizontal resolution (525 lines, 480 of which show up on the screen).

However, because TV's official aspect ratio is 4x3, it's widely accpeted that NTSC is 640x480 as far as converting to a digital signal is concerned. Digital NTSC is known as 480i, and it's progressive version is 480p, which are 640x480 (sometimes 720x480, but this isn't 4:3, and the extra vertical lines are often signal).

So eat that, moron.

Re:NTSC Resolution is not

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, no. It has a definite vertical resolution and doesn't have a specific horizontal resolution. The electron beam goes from left to right, when it reaches the right side of your monitor (the horizontal sync) it resets and starts another horizontal line (creating a new row, ie vertical resolution). You can count how many times this reset takes place, which gives you vertical resolution, but you can't count how many times the amplitude of the signal changes due to its analog nature. I hope that was clear enough, but anyhow...

Eat that, moron.

Re:NTSC Resolution is not

[tokki]

Ok, moron. It depends on the viewpoint of the electron gun. Check here under NTSC. Horizontal lines of resolution.

Every 1/60th of second, the electron gun runs from left to right on the vertical axis and paints every other horizontal axis, and 1/60th of a second later it paints the other horizontal lines. There are 525 lines in NTSC, although only 480 show up on the screen as the rest are black and/or encoded. This ends up with the 30 frames per second rate. This was origionally based on the timing from the 60 Hz power in the US (since early TV's didn't have much in the way of timing electronics), and it's why PAL is 25 FPS as European power is typically 50 Hz. Of course today, with digital timing this isn't necessary, and neither is interlacing, as that was done to address a limitation of the very first generation of TV.

If you really wanted to be a geek, you'd point out that color NTSC isn't actually 30 FPS, it's 29.97 FPS. Originally NTSC was 30 FPS, but it was slowed a tad to allow for the color signal when they changed the standard to include color.

Another know-it-all wannabe trying to show off his know-it-all skills. What a suprise.

Re:NTSC Resolution is not

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, dipshit, horizontal lines of resolution is the vertical resolution.

Another know-it-all wannabe trying to show off his know-it-all skills. What a suprise.
That's funny, this is exactly what I thought of your original post.

Re:NTSC Resolution is not

[tokki]

Arguing semantics rather than content, the calling card of a typical weak-minded argument from a know-it-all wannabe.

Re:NTSC Resolution is not

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you're just a troll, but, you call this content? Considering the fact that the whole argument was whether it is possible to determine horizontal resolution or vertical resolution, yes, I was arguing content. I'd also like to point out how quickly you called the parent a moron. Now remind me, who's the weak-minded know-it-all wannabe? Not only are you still wrong, by trying to hide the fact that you were (by giving a weak-minded, inflammatory argument), you contradict yourself in the same sentence.

Legal problems

[Jonathan the Nerd]

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends.

This is the RIAA. We know where you are. Do not attempt to escape. We will be there shortly with a warrant for your arrest. (Well, warrant may be too strong a word -- it's more of a used gum wrapper than a warrant per se -- but it still carries the force of law, since we are the RIAA.)

Got a PS2?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can use QCast Tuner software on your networked PS2 to get most of these features... Check it out here: http://www.broadq.com/qcast.html It will have .OGG and S/PDIF output shortly (next week or so, they claim.) The audio/video quality are amazing -- I'm a beta tester.

then what is it?

[Anonymous Coward]

NTSC Resolution is not 640x480

then what is it? It surely has 480 lines (or 486, depending on how to count the vblank lines). How many columns you get depends on several factors.

Re:then what is it?

[Snork Asaurus]

NTSC (digital) is spec'd 720*577 (including vertical blanking) for a full frame (2 fields). The visible area is spec'd 720*487 for a full frame. In reality and for your purposes, it's ~702*486 for a full frame. Scan rate is 30 frames/sec or 60 (interlaced) fields/sec.

The mix tape issue is central.

[Anonymous Coward]

Addressing the issue of digital mix tapes
may be the key to finding a long-term
solution to the mess the music industry is
in. In a democracy, citizens will use their
power to make the law conform to their common
sense values. This is why murder is a crime but
adultery isn't (anymore, in most democracies).

Giving your friend a mix tape of your favorite
tunes is considered to be ethical by most people,
and I don't think an RIAA advertizing blitz will
change these social mores. And so a compromise
needs to be found which reflects the consensus view
of the people.

Try Otto

[spribyl]

I have been using otto for a couple of weeks now and like it quite a bit.
http://www.cardhouse.com/otto/

Re:Try Otto

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah!

otto +
linux server
+ wireless lan
+ Serial IR receiver =

cool, flexible & cheap audio jukebux

PS: cron jobs unmute to wake me up and mute at night

Re:Try Otto

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, I have a linux box on my TV for playing MAME, this is also attached to my amp and acts as an mp3 jukebox. I have a wireless network so I can select which song is playing from anywhere in the house.
The only thing that would improve otto2 for me would be better list management. (e.g. the ability to select a current playlist and have random songs selected from that).

why not just buy a universal remote receiver?

[Anonymous Coward]

just did a google search for:
computer remote control

first link:
www.home-electro.com

sells a doodad that you hook up to your serial port which allows you to to use your remote control to run the PC.

Wrongo, bucko

[Anonymous Coward]

Laws should reflect an enlightened policy of maintaining equitable treatment under the law. The moment you say that musical works are somehow worth less than written works or inventions, then you have stripped musicians of their rights.

In short, it is better to legislate a system that rewards creators than to legislate a system that caters to the basest desires of the masses.

If the sound is good enough...

[Junta]

I wouldn't give up on the computer unless the audio card delivers unsatisfying sound quality or the system makes too much noise on it's own.

For one, using the gui is not necessarily the best approach anyway. For one there are keyboard shortcuts in most every application. For another, you could get something like xmms-lirc and some other relatively cheap device and use a remote on your system.

The *huge* plus for having an HTPC is that you are not limited to mere music applications. Video is a decent option, and games as well. I know the resolution is not great on most TVs, but can't beat them for size.

But if you *really* want to go over the deepend in price, you could improve your display technology. A projector that does XGA (1024x768) is very awesome. If you like big screens and like Video, that is a life saver, and it can cut down in cords. For example, you would have your screen and probably stereo speakers of front, with one wire for each speaker running, say, behind your couch. You keep all your stereo and video equipment back there, or next to your couch. I'm big on video game systems, so the cords on controllers are more convenient this way. Plus, I don't have to move my butt off the couch to change DVDs when I'm watching a Box Set in a sitting... Of course, a decent projector runs a couple of thousand, and you can't walk in front of it, so it is something you have to carefully consider...

Re:If the sound is good enough...

[ergo98]

On the same lines, many HDTV TVs nowadays offer DVI inputs, allowing one an extremely high quality display on their TV. HDTI 1080i is, I believe 1920x1080 (interlaced of course, though there is a 1080p on some ultra high end sets I think), which is nothing to scoff at.

Re:If the sound is good enough...

[martyn s]

I've never heard of 1080p; I don't think it's a real thing. I mean, sure, there are monitors which support 1920x1080 non-interlaced, but it's not a "TV" and it's not part of the HDTV convention of 480i/480p/720p/1080i. There are certainly no channels that broadcast at 1080p, and there is no way to output "1080p" to a screen is with a computer. Of course, you were talking about outputting from a computer, weren't you? Well, then it's a monitor, not a TV. I don't even know what I'm talking about, what's the difference anymore, between a monitor and a TV?

Re:If the sound is good enough...

[csamuel]

Plus, I don't have to move my butt off the couch to change DVDs when I'm watching a Box Set in a sitting... Thats intense...

Turtle Beach AudioTron

[PhotonSphere]

The Turtle Beach AudioTron has been tempting me for quite some time. I've looked at many other component systems and this seems to be the most solid in terms of support, build quality, and ease of use.

If you don't want to have to run a patch cable to it, simply use a wireless bridge like the LinkSys WET11 or get a wireless ethernet converter to tie it into your SAMBA server.

Re:Turtle Beach AudioTron

[/dev/trash]

You mean the one that is not for sale?

Re:Turtle Beach AudioTron

[ZZane]

What do you mean not for sale? I bought mine at CompUSA over 6 months ago and I'm absolutely LOVING it. A quick search on pricewatch brings up 3-4 online vendors selling it.

Re:Turtle Beach AudioTron

[/dev/trash]

follow the link in the post I was replying to.

Linux MP3 Players Project Page

[snugge]

Lots of nice solutions here...

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/bchafy/mp3.html

sadly use windows

[sickmtbnutcase]

It's sad to say, but you could set up a winduhs box for the music. I'm running mine w/ a 1.2Ghz duron and a radeon piped to the tv, winamp2.8 supports ogg, (as far as i know). Plus, having the Mildrop plugin go nuts on your tv is better than tripping on LSD...

Re:sadly use windows

[Junta]

I thought that Windows would make a better HTPC, so I had mine dual-booting linux and windows, but have since zapped the windows partition. My main reason is that the mouse tends to play too big a role in Windows unnecessarily. mplayer is great for video with keyboard support. It also tends to be more universal than anything in Windows. For examlpe, mplayer can play Sorenson .movs and realmedia content as well as more .avi codecs than Windows Media Player easily supports out of the box...

xmms-lirc is great for using a remote with xmms. So now the mouse is mostly optional. Of course, for when I'm ultimately lazy, my laptop is my remote control. Wireless nework and x0rfbserver/vnc is great.

For those who are using Windows and don't want to change for one reason or another, ZoomPlayer makes media playback under windows livable.... Do a search for it. Hell, I never use WMP under windows anymore, I can't stand the lack of decent keyboard control...

Re:sadly use windows

[Anonymous Coward]

winduh. i bet you are such the coolest.

Re:sadly use windows

[sickmtbnutcase]

forgot one part, use a logitech cordless gamepad for changing the song, adj volume, mildrop preset, etc

You're the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends.

Why was this even posted? It's people like this that cause problems with the RIAA. That's not fair use, that's plain theft.

Re:You're the problem

[aronc]

Why was this even posted? It's people like this that cause problems with the RIAA. That's not fair use, that's plain theft.


Nope. Check the audio home recording act. Not illegal.

According to US Code, mix tapes are quite legal

[yerricde]

Not legal to make mix tapes.

Oh really? Let me pull out the letter of the United States Code:

17 USC 107: The fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords ... for purposes such as[1] ... is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include ...

17 USC 1008: No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a ... recording device, or a ... recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.

[1] 17 USC 101: The terms ''including'' and ''such as'' are illustrative and not limitative.

Re:According to US Code, mix tapes are quite legal

[Anonymous Coward]

By leaving out the key phrases in these laws with ellipses, you have gutted the meanings.

Here's what you left out of the first one:

such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research

These are examples of types of things that are covered. Note that "giving to your friend" is not even close to a fair use right as implied by this law.

1008 clearly covers the hardware, not the audio thereupon. IOW, you can sue for infringement, but not for making devices that make infringement possible.

"Illustrative" means that the items used to illustrate have some sort of significance towards the total meaning of the illustrated topic. The illustrated Fair Use rights all point to things life education and criticism. They do not imply that any copying is fine, and in fact, the entire Section 17 of the U.S. Code is written in order to explain the extent of copyright and the limitations of non-copyright holders. Section 106 seems skipped over in your fervor to post an RIAA attack.

Remote Control Linux?

[Max Threshold]

I always wondered if it's possible to receive signals from a universal remote using a IRDA device. Then you could control your whole system.

Does XMMS have a control API like WinAmp? You know, where games things can control it?

Re:Remote Control Linux?

[uhoreg]

Yes, it's possible. You can even control xmms with it. Or even (shameless plug) AlsaPlayer (although the AlsaPlayer control doesn't work the way it should, yet. It's just a load of hackery at this point.). One issue, though, with all these, is setting up playlists. AFAIK the xmms plugin has some playlist control, but I've never tried it. The AlsaPlayer has basically nothing.

Re:Remote Control Linux?

[Morgor]

If you own one of the more expensive versions of the soundblaster Audigy soundcard, you get a nice remote control. This remotecontrol works in linux with a little program delivered with the driver. It has a basic setup to work with xmms.

Re:Remote Control Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use the remote control of my aiwa boombox to control xmms, power up/down/logout, switch screen resolutions, mousing etc. I do this lirc project software and hardware design. I built a homebrew irda receiver. I am working on a nice big font display to come up on my 21" monitor, will let the world know when it is done.

Jhaanti

AudioRequest

[inicom]

ARQ2-135 or their new TeraServer

Absolutely the best engineered component MP3 player available.

ReQuest Multimedia

rs232, tcp/ip, and IR control, digital out, tv out (composite and s-video), analog out, analog in, built-in samba and webserver, runs QNX, excellent support, pre-written modules for control from high-end systems like Crestron, drives are swappable, fully-documented open protocols, java remote, etc, etc. Highly recommended. I have an ARQ1 that I'm very happy with, and I get to play with ARQ2-135's almost everyday.

PR link at request

(I have played with Arrakis DC6, Escient Fireball's, Lansonic, and prefer the AudioRequest by far. If I was going to recommend a runner up, it would be the Arrakis because of the 6 zones, but the AudioRequest wins for me because of MP3 support, upcoming OggVorbis support, better interfaces and it is their primary business).

Re:AudioRequest

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah right.. Like a slashdot reader is going to pay thousands for a closed system. What a ripoff.

Sorry if I missed the part where he said "I am looking to spend $3000..."

All your base are Slimp3.

Yes! We have a chilling effect on songwriting!

[yerricde]

The moment you say that musical works are somehow worth less than written works or inventions, then you have stripped musicians of their rights.

There's no way to guarantee that the song you just wrote isn't also the song that somebody else just wrote. Such coincidences are exceedingly likely to happen, and defending oneself in court against an allegation of plagiarism is prohibitively expensive for a novice songwriter. Thus, songwriters are already stripped of their rights.

Re:Yes! We have a chilling effect on songwriting!

[Anonymous Coward]

So you determine that the entirety of Title 17 is in need of replacement because of one bad judgement?

Or am I reading you wrong? Are you really supporting the concept of plagiarism as a right?

iPAQ Entertainment Center

[boots@work]

You could look at HP's iPAQ music center. I haven't seen one in the flesh.

It's bigger and probably louder than the Slim Devices unit, but it doesn't require a PC to be running. Unsurprisingly I hear it runs Linux/Samba/etc inside too.

They used to have one under the HP brand with a CD-R, but perhaps Carly downsized it.

Re:iPAQ Entertainment Center

[agallagh42]

Here it is. Looks like it just had a hefty price cut too, from $999 to $399. Alas, no ethernet...

Specifications

-Size of a standard 17"stereo component
-20.0 GB hard drive
-2-line,20-character VFD display
-Single-tray CD drive
-Analog audio In/Out
-Co-ax and optical digital audio In/Out
-TV video and S-video Out
-V.90 modem
-HomePNA 2.0
-Full-function remote control
-S-Link (CD changer control
-Three USB ports (one on front of PC, two on back)

Re:iPAQ Entertainment Center

[Anonymous Coward]

They used to have one under the HP brand with a CD-R, but perhaps Carly downsized it.

It got axed (as did the Compaq device). I work for HP, and they're selling off old stock of these devices (called the HP Digital Entertainment Center) to employees cheap, with the stipulation that 1) you get no warranty or support and 2) you can't re-sell it.

I got one, and it's a great device. Even cooler, it runs linux, and HP has provided a software "time bomb" that, once the product has been completely end-of-lifed, will unlock it and allow you to telnet in as root and all sorts of other fun stuff.

The advantage of being an HP employee is that I'm privy to the information about how to get in to mine now, and I've already added a larger drive to it and am in the process of trying to hack in a video capture card to give it PVR functionality.

If you can find a used one on Ebay for a couple hundred bucks, I'd recommend it. Nice device.

Re:iPAQ Entertainment Center

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in HP too. Can you tell me who to talk to about getting one?

It seemed like a nice little product (if perhaps not core business), and the hack value makes it even more attractive.

Turtle Beach Audiotron is another option

[rmach]

http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/audiotron /producthome.asp

Dedicated player.

[Marc Desrochers]

I've been toying with a similar idea for a while. The problem is that the solutions I've seen always use the same strategy. Regardless of the interface used, the music is still played by MY machine. What I've been working on is a dedicated machine that plays the music, to take the load off my machine. This machine has nothing but power sound and network coming out the back. The only hiccup is that I havn't found the right combination of tools to make me happy, so I decided to learn PHP and roll my own. Is there anything of the sort already out there?

Re:Dedicated player.

[Anonymous Coward]

I use the Globecom Jukebox to great effect. Set up playlists on a jukebox to play *on the server* which I plug headless into my stereo. Really a wonderful arrangement. http://gjukebox.sourceforge.net/

It's in active development, and not necessarily for a beginner to Linux/MySQL, but it definitely does the job.

Used G4 Cube w/ cd-r drive

[ErnstKompressor]

A cube with a keyspan ir reciever, s-video out to a tv. 500mhz w/ a ATI radeon card for video, OS X. Capture keyspan remote signals to your universal remote(throw in a burn button), (or try capturing a Macally ir keyboard's signals into a Phillips-type universal remote) and use itunes or an ogg-player through your tv from your couch, pop in a blank and pick out a mix for a friend.

Personal use copies are legal in USA and Canada

[yerricde]

There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright.

Not always. See my other comment, which gives a line in 17 USC that authorizes personal use copies. Canada has something even more permissive, with a royalty on blank media to back it up.

Copies for personal use are for use only by you.

Please support this with statutes or case law.

Re:Personal use copies are legal in USA and Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the friggin' Berne Convention. It's Copyright Law 101. Look it up. Canada adheres to the Berne Convention just like the U.S.

All these posters saying that it's okay to make copies of CDs, books, movies, or Watcom C++ 5.0 in Canada as long as they're only for use by all their friends have no idea what they're talking about. It'd be nice, sure, but that's just not how the law works.

Don't get me wrong here - the RIAA claiming that nobody has a right to make a million copies of a CD that they bought for their own personal use also has no idea what it's talking about. It'd be nice for them, sure, but that's also just not how the law works.

But what rhymes with mp3?

[Anonymous Coward]

What in the fuck else rhymes with ogg?

So you're saying mp3 has a better name? Justify.

This is what I did.

[Frank of Earth]

Check it out here

Audrey's make a perfect dumb terminal for web applications and you can problably put it on a shelf by your home entertainment system. I keep my Audry in the kitchen so I can pull up recipes too.

I buy, I pirate.

[hyoo]

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends

So in a nutshell, you pirate music.

I just thought it was strange that you needed to point that out, as if borrowing CDs from friends and ripping them is legal and within 'fair use'.

Its okay. I 'borrow' CDs from my 'friends' from all over they world. They are even kind enough to encode them and make them easily accessible over the internet so I don't have to pick up and return the CD to their houses.

Re:I buy, I pirate.

[Anonymous Coward]

troll

Re:I buy, I pirate.

[Anonymous Coward]

Harr! Matey!

Re:I buy, I pirate.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't say for anywhere else, but in Canada it is mentioned specifically in copyright law that making a copy of an audio CD for personal use is legal (whether that CD be owned by you, borrowed from a friend or library ...). The levy on blank CDs is supposed to offset any damage done and be distributed to artists.

Re:I buy, I pirate.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can make a copy for your personal use, but not to
give to anybody else unless you can ensure that you
are never using the copy and the original at the same
time.

What I currently use.

[slakdrgn]

I personally use windows for this kind of setup, mainly cause I haven't been able to find anything really good with linux to work on this laptop. My current HTPC is a Compaq Armada E500 Laptop with a cracked LCD. Lucky the Video out even works within the bios (rarly seen in laptops) and it has 800Mhz PIII, DVD, 512MB ram, 10gb hd, 16MB Rage Mobility P. I use zoomplayer (search google) with it to make video playing manageably and use a program called media-box for the navigation. I also found a little tool to use for Packard Bell remote receiviers (remember thos) that will map *ANY* remote to any key. Pretty cool stuff. Media box also works with WinAmp so you can play your ogg/mp3 files ;)

Re:What I currently use.

[Anonymous Coward]

uICE is another program that works very well for IR type devices. Google their website. That is what I am currently using to control my Packard Bell remote. Plans are to updrade to irman and a real remote at some point. (Possibly going to use a PDA)

~Aaron

Disclaimer...

[Shanep]

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own

Well thank God for that, eh!

or have borrowed from friends.

What was the point in telling us this? Downloading music is somehow worse morally than ripping from friends CD's?

LiRC

[Anonymous Coward]

xmms had plenty of command line control. If you configure LiRC to work with your remote, then you're all set.

If LiRC doesn't like your remote, you could do what I did: Buy a wireless keyboard. I bought a Logitech one with all the extra internet buttons and used Xikbd to remap the extra "media" keys into xmms commands.... works great.

TurtleBeach AudioTron

[Ageless]

A few other people have mentioned it but I will too. I have a Turtle Beach AudioTron and it totally kicks ass.

As far as features go, it's fairly basic. It plays MP3 and MP3 streams using SMB over Ethernet or phone LAN (whatever that is called). It has a good front panel and remote and a very good web interface.

I've had mine for a bit less than a year and it's been one of my favorite purchases since the day I got it.

If you get (or have) one and use Windows, also check out a little system tray app I wrote called ATTray which makes it quick to control the AT from your computer.

What if

[Earlybird]

What if he only listens to the borrowed music when his friends are around?

Re:What if

[Anonymous Coward]

That would work, so long as the friend claimed ownership of the files.

Re:What if

[Anonymous Coward]

... and the media that the files sit on.

Should have included that in the above comment.

Re:What if

[Anonymous Coward]

So as long as I am renting him the disk space for his files, the media ownership is satisfied?

What if I give him $10 to keep so that I can buy any of his CDs anytime I want. When I am done listening, I sell it back to him 'freeing' my $10 to buy another one of his CDs for a short while.

This assumes that he does not listen to the music while the master is sold.

I have wondered if a co-op like this would be legal - ownership of the CDs floats as necessary. A protocol would be needed to enforce compliance, but that is fair. Multiple copies of really popular stuff could be purchased.

Legal??

Here's a new take on things

[Nathdot]

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends

I hear a whole bunch of people rushing to say insightful things such as "Uh dude, don't you know that's illegal?"

So here's the counter point: Who gives a fuck!

What are you all? His mother or something? Don't you have a sore ass from riding that moral high horse all day? The question wasn't whether or not he had your express permission to own certain mp3/ogg copies of the music.

It was, paraphrased: "What's an easy stand alone solution for playing the music", probably asked for the benefit of visiting non-techy friends to allow them to cue and play some tunes in his lounge room, without first getting a degree or reading massive amounts of documentation.

Haven't any of you ever owned a mix cassete tape recorded from the radio/a friends album? Did that stop you buying LPs?

Sheesh

Re:Here's a new take on things

[Anonymous Coward]

The point in posting that it's illegal to make and keep a copy of your friend's CDs for your own use (as opposed to making a million copies of your own CD for your own use) is that the submitter obviously didn't know that, or they wouldn't have posted it. It has nothing to do with being judgemental or trying to be a Moral Mommy.

Heck, from a morality standpoint, I don't care if the guy is a five-wifed Mormon abortionist with a proclivity towards getting his daughters addicted to crack before selling them on the black market, but if he happens to ask in a public forum whether he should knock all their teeth out first, I'm very likely to respond with "Hey you ignorant dolt, you're breaking the law!" If your first thought is that I'm being judgemental rather than factual, perhaps it's a reflection on your own hang ups. :D

Re:Here's a new take on things

[Chatterton]

Good points :-)

I have another one, not so good as yours, but...
Here in Belgium, we are going to pay near 20% more on blank CD with a tax for the artists... I buy loads of CD for backup purposes (I do some photo scanning and home video editing for me, my family and some friends, but not professionnaly). Actually I burn near 500 CD a Year.

Actually I restrain me from copying CD if I have not the intent to buy it in the 2 month time slice, this is because I buy a lot of music from band who their disk are hard to impossible to find in CD shop. But with this tax on my blank CD, well, I think my moral barreer (for the 5 top labels, not the indy labels) will drop to the floor.

Re:Here's a new take on things

[Anonymous Coward]

It was mentioned above, but here's a link that confirms it: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20012002fs-e.html states that it is specifically legal in Canada to make a copy of an audio recording for personal use.

Re:Here's a new take on things

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear a whole bunch of people rushing to say insightful things such as "Uh dude, don't you know that's illegal?"

So here's the counter point: Who gives a fuck!

I'm creating a device that delivers 1000 volts through the network to users who don't log in correctly. Please help me with the hardware spec. Dangerous? What are you, my mother!? I'm asking for advice here, not lectures!

I'm also working on a spy program that will root out songs from all music-sequencing computers on the internet. This will allow me to steal music directly from the mixing desk of the artist and cut out the evil, money-grubbing music-industry. Please help me write the software. Illegal? Are you a music industry troll or something? Don't we have laws that protect our rights to take other people's work for free?

Next I'd like to develop a virus that wipes the HDs of people I don't like. I'm particularly keen to do it to linux boxes. Could someone help me? Oh c'mon! I thought slashdotters were cool to giving technical advice to anyone, no matter how they intend to use that information.

Jeez, if you're going to start stepping out of your happily oblivious moral vacuum and look at the wider picture I'm going elsewhere.......

Re:Here's a new take on things

[DNAGuy]

That's right. In Canada, you may make a copy of a copyrighted work for your own use, even if you do not own the original. That means you can go over to someone's house, burn all their CD's, and it's all totally legal, so long as you make the copies. Your friend can help you, but if he or she actually makes the copies for you, the copy is illegal.

Re:Here's a new take on things

[twifkak]

The point in posting that it's illegal to make and keep a copy of your friend's CDs for your own use (as opposed to making a million copies of your own CD for your own use) is that the submitter obviously didn't know that, or they wouldn't have posted it. Oh, go away. It's not illegal to tell people that you've done it, and it's not like the police are going to go knocking on his door with a warrant, now. And it's not like everybody that posted saying, "Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!" was trying to be philanthropic in doing so.

Re:Here's a new take on things

[Anonymous Coward]

MMMMMM A Device that zaps users,

I knew I had a use for those Farad Capacitors I have lying around.

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

By admiting that you have pirated some or all of your music collection, you are looking for trouble. Pirating music is wrong and illegal, boys and girls. Don't be stupid like this article poster.

Ha.. just goes to show you.. show some ethics on /. and you MUST be a troll!!

This is why everyone worships Linus and hates rms right? :)

Re:The RIAA has brain-washed you!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. Not legal to make mix tapes.

As others have pointed out already, making mix tapes is perfectly legal (falls under the fair-use clause). Giving them away isn't, but that's another story.

Why do you think it's not legal? Probably because the RIAA has made you so paranoid by slowly removing all of your rights.

Next you'll be thinking it's illegal to play music at a party unless everyone has purchased each song. After that, they'll have you thinking that you have to buy the CD again every time you want to listen to it. That's what the RIAA wants! Don't let them get there!

Heres what I'd use

[doublesix]

I'd setup your existing PC as a file server and use a playstation2, with a network adapter, and sony remote as the client. Use this software: http://www.qcast.com/qcast2.html Added bonus: Grand Theft Auto

Re:Heres what I'd use

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that'd work great if the PlayStation fan wasn't noisy enough to drown out a vacuum cleaner.

Audiophile Solution

[tomRakewell]

I've been thinking along these lines for a while now. However, I couldn't stand to degrade either the sound quality of the music, or the integrity of the CD's programme. For example, if a track has a 7 second lead-in, I would like to preserve it if I listen to the entire sampled disc.

My solution is to rip the CD with cdrdao, store the image (bin file) and cue sheet, and script something with sox, for example:

dd if=data.bin bs=10 | play -V - -t cdr

The music server has a good audio card with a digital out, and that gets fed into a relatively expensive outboard DAC. You sacrifice nothing in terms of sound quality.

The biggest problem is exactly what you describe: the playback interface.

I'm thinking of turning this into a 3 component system. The server (with it's fans and loud hard drives) sits in my basement. A quiet single board computer with the sound card and no fan and no hard drive sits on my audio rack. A third computer, possibly a PalmOS computer running wireless Ethernet, sits on my coffee table and awaits my commands.

In other words, there's a fair amount of custom programming. I'd like it to be at least as good as my CD player, offering random seek (fast forward and rewind!) capabilities.

tomRakewell

Re:Audiophile Solution

[Prothonotar]

Seems like an awful amount of work, compared to just burning a CD/DVD with the data you've meticulously preserved in its original format and playing it in a CD/DVD player.

xmms-remote

[Anonymous Coward]

Just use xmms-remote and xosd for display. In combination with a good tv card, xawtv, lirc, and mplayer, you can have a full media center running from your linux box. It took me 2 hours to set up, and my roomates love it.

A nice little project

[Burl Ives]

I wrote some gtk software to do just that. Haven't released it yet (not mature enough, missing most features), but it works pretty well on the home tv/stereo system with lirc, a $35 Irman, and my universal remote (sony rmvl900). It plays using xmms in the background, so it can do anything xmms does (I think can play ogg). Also it plays videos with MPlayer.

There are a few similar projects out there as well that I've been tracking.

• Myth TV has a music mode AND does live tv functionality! (I will probably migrate to this instead of continuing my project).
• Dave/Dina project may fit the bill too.
• IR File Chooser for the perl hackers. :)

What supports OGG but NOT MP3

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no MP3's, I converted them all to OGG because I don't want to support the RIAA and their practises. Are there any devices that don't support mp3 at all but still do OGG??

The noncommercial use by a consumer

[yerricde]

Note that "giving to your friend" is not even close to a fair use right as implied by this law.

I can see several instances where a mix tape could express "criticism" of the works involved. For instance, following "Puff Daddy feat. Dave Grohl - It's All About the Benjamins (rock remix)" with "Marilyn Manson - I Don't Like the Drugs (but the Drugs Like Me)" shows how Manson's guitar line is substantially similar to Puffy's. Manson's publisher can't sue me because of Manson's own unclean hands, and Puffy's publisher wouldn't want to waste its time with me because it can get more money from Manson's publisher, a commercial entity. Same with "Chiffons - He's So Fine" and "George Harrison - My Sweet Lord", if done non-commercially. It might even be OK to use any song first published between 1923 and (current year minus 75) non-commercially as a "comment" on the Bono Act. With regard to the "amount and substantiality" provision, I typically don't put the whole song in mix discs that I make.

1008 clearly covers the hardware, not the audio thereupon.

Are you sure about this? "No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright ... based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of [a recording] device or medium for making ... musical recordings" (17 USC 1008).

Section 106 seems skipped over

The sections I quoted start with "Notwithstanding section 106". Those sections are intended to give legitimate reasons to skip 106.

Are you a troll employed by the RIAA or one of its member labels?

Re:The noncommercial use by a consumer

[Anonymous Coward]

I need to make sure I clear this up off the bat. Are we talking about the same things?

Mix tapes for friends is not permitted under the Fair Use subsection. It is up to the copyright holder to pursue civil action against a violater, and in most cases it is not worth the trouble to do so. Copyright violaters are not subject to criminal laws, but to civil laws, so the government has no interest in taking these cases to court for any copyright holder.

Mix tapes for yourself for activities such as the drive home or for a party (though this is debatable) is permitted under copyright law.

Are you a troll employed by the RIAA or one of its member labels?

Yes. I am paid by the RIAA and several record companies to come on here and blow holes in your misleading legal theories. We all know that disagreeing opinions means paid shilling. This is /., after all.

You disappoint me yerricide.

Re:The noncommercial use by a consumer

[yerricde]

Mix tapes ... for a party (though this is debatable) is permitted under copyright law.

As you said, debatable. For a party outside a close circle of friends and family, public performance fees come into play; read BMI's web site for more information.

We all know that disagreeing opinions means paid shilling.

I had a suspicion. I didn't come out and assume that you were; instead, I asked a question: "Are you employed by the record industry?"

Re:The noncommercial use by a consumer

[Anonymous Coward]

no... you're misquoting yourself there... you asked if he was a "troll" employed by the RIAA blah blah blah.. that word makes your question sound a lot more like an accusation, then a legitemate query..

My way...

[djupedal]

iTunes and Home Theater - wireless of course... - Please check it out...unlimited library and internet streaming from one room to another.

Re: My way...link correction

[djupedal]

whoops....I meant the other audio related link... :)

When is /. going to allow us to do corrections to our own posts, similar to other forums?

Another vote for Audiotron

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't support OGG or have an on-TV GUI. It does have a great web GUI though.

SliMP3 is neat...

[crapolene]

Just got one of 'em, now I want another! Of course this now means I'll have to finally sit down and rip all of my CDs but it'll be worth it. It even comes with batteries for the remote.

Not replacement but amendment

[yerricde]

So you determine that the entirety of Title 17 is in need of replacement because of one bad judgement?

No, I determine that some minor amendment to Title 17 is in order. For one thing, roll the copyright terms in chapter 3 back a couple decades. For another, create a clear substantial non-infringing use exception to offenses under 1201. Then, "amount and substantiality" in section 107 needs to be clarified, and the scope of what constitutes a "derivative work" (as opposed to an appropriation of an uncopyrightable idea, section 102b) needs to be clearly restricted so that every work isn't counted as a derivative of some existing work.

See RJB's Digital Music Center

[Anonymous Coward]

About 2 weeks ago I released V1.0 of RJB's DMC.
It it heading in the direction your looking for.
The web site is http://dmc.BigI.com.

In the next few days I'll have release V1.1 out on the site. It's main feature is supporting the CD player for Audio CDs and ISO/mp3s.

Check it out and let me know what you think. I'm
looking for feedback, Also a Job. But you can read about this on the web site.

Robert Bubon
dmc@BigI.com

SLiMP3

[mattfusf]

While I don't believe it will handle ogg (believe a transcoder project is in the works) the SLiMP3 is a great choice.

It has a great VFD display and can be controlled by IR (comes with a Sony remote, I use my Philips Pronto) as well as via a straightfoward web interface. (I commonly control it via the web interface while sitting on my couch using my laptop that is hooked up via 802.11b) The server app is written in Perl and is an active open-source project. While I haven't tried it, if you purchase multiple devices, they can all be controlled and share the same server. Each can sync with one another or play independently.

Sound quality is great, setup was painless, and the whole thing is pretty darn customizable!

Matt

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot

[acydophyte]

Do you work for the RIAA? If you do, you should be fired right here, right now. You must not keep up with the Fair Use Act of 1977. The DMCA doesn't overrule this, seeing as how its built upon its principle. One can copy music that they purchase for their own personal use. This is 100% legal. Now, by borrowing the music and copying it, he makes himself subject to a copyright infringment suit. Nonetheless, seeing that one has a library of mp3s means only that this person has made copies for his own personal use. Why don't you RIAA freaks learn that mp3 doesn't automatically mean illegal? As long as he doesn't redistribute the copyrighted works, he doesn't have anything to worry about. Read up kitlings, because I'm here to make RIAA's life miserable. :-)

The Acydophyte

I hate to say it . .

[pickanothername]

Grab a 2-U case and build what you have under . . .
*GASP*
WinXP. I hate to say it, but for this application, Windows running UIce for a remote interpolation prog seems to work best for me. I played with several different things, but the best performance/usability I've gotten is with XP and UIce using an AverTV card. Here's why:

1) The AverTV Studio card works best under Windows and has limited TIVO-like functionality and has a remote control that most IR remote apps will recognize. It's also suprising quality, and quite cheap.
2) UIce will direct keystrokes to any running prog, and any key on a remote can be designated to pracicaly any function, including mouse movement.
3) WinAmp has a nifty double-size function that makes it quite usable on the TV. I don't know if XMMS or any of it's ilk have this, though.
4) A 2-U case with stereo feet screwed to the bottom looks like a stereo componant, mayhaps an amp.
5) Guests can use the machine intuitively. They already understand how everything works for the most part, they just have to get used to using an IR remote for the computer.

Reasons why Windows isn't a good choice for this:

1) Security. Unless your machine is behind a firewall, I wouldn't recomend it.
2) Umm . . . you want to run Linux.

I've built the box, and am quite impressed with the results. I'll be putting up a page for what to use and blah and blah in about a month, once I've got the faceplate cut and installed.

-Dirk R.
Sure, nobody asked me, but I knew they eventually would.

Re:I hate to say it . .

[manly_15]

3) WinAmp has a nifty double-size function that makes it quite usable on the TV. I don't know if XMMS or any of it's ilk have this, though.

XMMS does support doublesize, and WinAmp skins. From a GUI perspective, XMMS is almost identical to WinAmp. If you surf over to the XMMS Misc. Plugins page, you will see a wide varitey of plugins sutible for what you need to do, including command line interpreters and remote control interfaces.

Re:I hate to say it . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Reasons why Windows isn't a good choice for this:

1) Security. Unless your machine is behind a firewall, I wouldn't recomend it.
2) Umm . . . you want to run Linux.

3) Windows XP costs $200

Re:I hate to say it . .

[Howie]

Yep - I'm working on something similar, using Win2k on an nForce Duron PC, with Direct3d to make a nice frontend, talking to my FreeBSD fileserver over samba. For the moment, Winamp and an IR keyboard are the UI, until I get the time to finish my code.

I'm not that happy with any of the TV-out VGA cards I've seen so far though. My PS2 and Dreamcast can do solid clear 800x600 on my TV - why can't any PC hardware?

Re:I hate to say it . .

[g4dget]

Everything you describe works on Linux as well. And with Linux, you save a couple of hundred dollars in software licenses.

Re:I hate to say it . .

[anjrober]

I have been looking at doing the exact same thing so I would be interested in seeing your page. Please do put it up. Thanks.

Re:I hate to say it . .

[geekoid]

3. don't agree with the EULA.
4. Philosophical reasons.

Re:I hate to say it . .

[Hoser McMoose]

A 2U case?! What? Are you NUTS?! Have you SEEN a 2U case? Those things may only be 9cm tall, but they're 48cm wide and more importantly, they're usually around least 60cm deep!

Here's a better solution, get a MiniITX case with a VIA Eden inside (ideally one with a PCI riser card so that you can put a better sound card in). Total cost would be about $200. It's small, more than fast enough for what is needed, and will run without a fan.

As for the WinXP vs. Linux debate, the main downside to using WinXP for this application is that the license costs about $200, thereby doubling the price of the box.

525, not 577

[yerricde]

NTSC (digital) is spec'd 720*577 (including vertical blanking) for a full frame (2 fields).

I was under the distinct impression that NTSC and PAL/M were specified as 525 lines per frame, not 577. PAL video is 625 lines. You may be thinking of PAL's visible area.

Try Keyspan Digital Media Remote...

[macmedic]

http://www.keyspan.com/products/usb/remote/

I'm sure the IR remote codes are available or at minimum "learnable". This device mimics USB keyboard input so should work with just about any application (MacOS 9, OS X, or Windows)...

Includes key maps for PowerPoint, QuickTime, RealPlayer, WinAmp, Sound Jam, and other popular applications and is "customizable" for other apps.

Buy a cheap box, install a big drive... you get the idea.This doesn't help with your Linux box but ...

If you redefine your needs as:
Create a Huge music vault that can hook up to my home theater, be updated via my network, and controlled via IR
I think it would do the trick. Does it really matter what the file format is? As long as you can store 1000+ CDs (which should be easy using a greater than 40G drive and MP3)

With the size of today's drives AIFF will soon be a viable option!!!

Then add a 20G iPod for your mobile needs and you will have many days worth of music in a portable...
No, I don't work for Keyspan or any other company mentioned...

audiotron and slimp3

[asv108]

There are quite a few network mp3 players out on the market. I currently use a turtle beach Audiotron, you can check out a little review I wrote up a few months ago.

The other one that has received quite a bit of press around here is the Slimp3 player. The slimp3 is a nice player, especially if you want something that you can hack, since the source code and architecture is all open.

If you want to make any wired network player wireless, there are products available.

CDs only

[yerricde]

All these posters saying that it's okay to make copies of CDs, books, movies, or Watcom C++ 5.0 in Canada as long as they're only for use by all their friends have no idea what they're talking about.

That's because the exemption applies only to personal use copies of sound recordings, and not to books, movies, or compilers.

audiotron...

[Polo]

The Audiotron is probably what you're looking for... except for the ogg. I don't think it does ogg, but if the slimp3 can do transcoding, this one can play raw .wav files, so maybe the server can decode the .ogg and the raw data can stream across the network (which could be better than transcoding)

Oh yeah, and it looks like a stereo component and has a high-contrast display.

See RJB's Digital Music Center

[Anonymous Coward]

I released about 2 weeks ago version 1.0 of RJB's DMC. The website is http://dmc.BigI.com. It does not have OGG support, that's down the road. It does support MP3/Monkey's Audio and Waves. It uses a Nvida card for TV out and a X10 Mouse remote. It's written in C on Linux. Version 1.1 will be supporting Audio CDs and ISO/MP3s. I'm going to try and release it later this week to the website. I'd like some feed back on what you think and how better to document the install. I'd also like a job, but you can read more about on the web site. Robert Bubon dmc@BigI.com

Advice on building your own?

[plcurechax]

I'd like to know if anyone has any advice on building your own?

I assume that a microprocessor like an ARM or PowerPC with a Ethernet chip (say Realtek 8139) and a LCD display could do what you want.

I've been wondering how easy it would be to build my own portable player, but this might even be easier...Any advice?

Re:Advice on building your own?

[plierhead]

"I've been wondering how easy it would be"

Pretty damn hard, I'd guess. You can find discussion areas like people using TINI embedded Java card along with STA013 mp3 decoder to do it but they all seem to be characterized by an initial burst of activity and then a trailing off once enthusiasm fades away...

But go for it and post the results if you get there !

Re:Advice on building your own?

[plcurechax]

You can find discussion areas like people using TINI embedded Java card along with STA013 mp3 decoder [greenend.org.uk] to do it but they all seem to be characterized by an initial burst of activity and then a trailing off once enthusiasm fades away...

Thanks. MP3elf and PJRC MP3 player look like the sort of thing I was thinking, and available in kit form.

Slim Devices, Inc: Marketing Transcript

[Anonymous Coward]

Marketing: So you guys all post on Slashdot, right?
RJV: Yeah.
Zarbuck: Of course.
seanadams.com: Duh.
Speare: Do I even have to answer that?
Marketing: Ok, RJV, why don't you do an Ask Slashdot, and ask for a 'Component MP3/OGG Player' or whatever would catch the linux geeks attention.
RJV: Okay...
Marketing: Then the rest of you recommend the SliMP3 Ethernet MP3 player, and hope you get modded up.
Speare: Why would we want to do this?
Marketing: It's like free advertising... everybody does it. Those silly Slashdot editors are oblivious to our power...
Zarbuck: Ah, so we just push the fact that it is penguin-friendly, and the linux hoards will make us rich!
RJV: But it doesn't support OGG... and that would be the main attraction for the linux fellows.
seanadams.com: Aw, just mention that in the ask slashdot, and if anyone asks, I'll just make up some crap and hopefully they'll fall for it...

Jensen Matrix

[keyslammer]

It sounds like you're looking for something that will allow you more control at the point where you're listening, but...

I've been using the Jensen Matrix audio transmitter to transmit from my computer to a receiver attached to my stereo over 900mhz. It's convenient because I mostly listen to random mixes, but I'm a little disappointed in the sound quality and my cordless phone tends to interfere with it.

The Digital Jukebox

[tot]

I have been thinking of building a digital jukebox like MP Sharp Technologies.

It is a Linux box, plug in whatever network/audio card support you want.

Is my face red!

[Snork Asaurus]

Ouch - you are absolutely correct -> it's 525! The other numbers I gave are OK, though.

I worked in broadcast video graphics (equipment) design (NTSC PAL and SECAM) for many years and know those and a lot of other numbers (that few would care about) in my sleep. But sometimes my fingers and brain have a disconnect. And yes, I most likely accidentally summoned the PAL visible number (since it's 576 + 2 half-lines = 577).

In my defense, I was simultaneously trying to use the Slashdot search engine (the lamest search engine I've ever used) to try to find a post from my AC days which details the why's and wherefore's of the numbers (like why the 720 vs. 702 discrepancy). I even tried Google but no luck - I give up.

Thanks for the backup.

Why 704x576

[yerricde]

like why the 720 vs. 702 discrepancy

It's actually 720 vs. 704, and that's because 704 is a nice round multiple of 32, such that quarter-screen MPEG 1 movies can be stored with 352 pixels, a multiple of the 16-pixel block that MPEG uses for chroma data. In addition, 704 is a multiple of 64, such that thumbnail MPEG 1 movies can be stored with 176 pixels, again a multiple of 16.

I even tried Google but no luck

ntsc scanlines

Specifically

[einhverfr]

No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. (Audio Home Recording Act, 1976)

Again, IANAL, so I don't know of a whole lot of case law to back this up. Perhaps the Slashdot category should be "Actions under laws that the RIAA doesn't like too much." Also note that 2/3rds of the royalties collected go to musician agencies, NOT industry agencies, 1/6 go to publishers (i.e. RIAA) and 1/6 go to writers. For a link to the enire law, see http://www.virtualrecordings.com/ahra.htm

Sharp Zaurus and 802.11 wireless

[splorf]

Here is how I want to set my audio system up:

Put all the files on an old laptop with an 802.11 access point. Connect it to my stereo through an Edirol UA-1A or Stereo-link USB audio converter, which should give much better sound quality than a typical PC sound card. The Griffin Technology IMIC is another possibility. Run a web server on the laptop that allows selecting and playing songs from a remote web browser. Then use my Sharp Zaurus Linux-based PDA with an 802.11 CF wireless card to control the system using its built-in web browser to pick out songs and play them. If I get really fancy, I can scan all the CD liner pamphlets and put them on the laptop too. Then the browser can display them and I can read the lyrics while the music is playing.

This is all done with simple stuff that I have kicking around the house already (crappy old 300 mhz laptop etc.), so except for the wireless cards which I don't have yet, will cost less than buying stereo stuff and give far more functionality and flexibility, plus of course use entirely free source code. It will be sooooo cool. I just couldn't see doing it any other way.

Re:Sharp Zaurus and 802.11 wireless

[kev0153]

Actually the stereo-link looks pretty good. It says that it works with linux and is only 150 bucks. It looks pretty cool too. The Edirol UA-1A doesnt appear to work with linux and doesnt have the same zoot factor as the stereo link. Hmm the wheels are turning. I just ripped about 200 cds this weekend into ogg and was looking for something just like this. Pretty sweet.

X11 Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

The firecracker package from X11 comes with a nice package for that use. With a little bit of c programming you can utilize the receiver that plugs into the serial port and use a radio controlled remote with whatever functions you feel like programming. A very viable solution for about $10.

Laptop or Tablet with VNC works as a killer remote

[Ghost of Ian Curtis]

Im so far using a old Dell Inspiron 3500 running VNC connected to my file server. At the moment I am limited to Ethernet but sometime next year I wanna go the Touchscreen Tablet with 802.11a way. I may switch to terminal services soon if I get the energy to play around with it.

Turtle Beach Audiotron

[Anonymous Coward]

I use the Turtle Beach Audiotron, and in fact am listening to it while I type this.

Cajun??

[gregington]

I know you are after a component system but have you looked at building a CAJUN? Although it is designed for cars (Car Audio Jukebox for UNix), I use it as a home audio component (a HAJUN!).

I have it set up with an IR reciever on a serial port and the display is Crystalfontz 20x4 LCD panel. As for how it fits your requirements:

1. Ethernet connectivity: Runs linux, so can mount/share Samba/NFS or anything you like
2. Intuitive interface: You can program the remote any way you like, does take some getting used to though.
3. IR Remote: I use the IRMAN remote.
4. OGGs and MP3s: I don't think it can play OGGs yet, but I beieve that is being worked on
5. TV out: No, but the LCD panel is used for output
6. Digital Out: Depends on your soundcard (I have digital out on a Yamaha 744 based soundcard)
7. CDR Capabilities: You can mount removeable media on the CAJUN

I built one two years ago and an very happy with it. I am still using the v3 software, v4 may have more features that you requrire. Its worth checking out.

Borrowing CDs is a crime

[HanzoSan]

You cannot share CDs with friends.

Re:Borrowing CDs is a crime

[Hillman]

Except in Canada. That's why we pay a levy

In need ot a little education

[UltraMagic]

The way that you state that you "personally own or have borrowed from friends" seems to imply that you feel that this is right, or fair use of this material.

I am no friend of the RIAA, and am strongly opposed to the DMCA, but borrowing from friends is definately stealing. I'm surprised that I only saw one post to this effect.

Great box for this application

[lingenfr]

I would think that a Shuttle mini-barebones system would make a great platform for this. Unfortunately, they can't seem to get all of the features in one box. The SV24/25 and SS40/G/50/G have the TV Out and the SS51G has the the SPDIF In/Out. The SS51G goes for around $300. I have a Hauppauge WinCast/dbx that I am pretty happy with which should fit in the SS51G just fine. I am not positive, but I believe that it has an Irda header on the mobo or you can build a receiver as shown on the lirc webpage. Throw a DVD (or even a DVD/CDR/CDRW so you can make CDs for your friends on the fly) and you have a quite impressive box. I have a Linksys wireless network in the house, so would probably opt for a WET11 to connect wirelessly. If an 800Mhz processor would get the job done, use the Cyrix as it runs cool enough that you don't need a fan. I own a couple of SV24s and have been very happy with them, but Shuttle keeps cranking out new versions so quickly that all I can do is salivate. This has been a great discussion. Thanks.

Re:Great box for this application

[Howie]

an 800Mhz processor would get the job done, use the Cyrix as it runs cool enough that you don't need a fan.

While I agree with the Shuttle as a fine choice for this type of application, please don't mislead people by implying that an 800Mhz C3 is anything like an 800Mhz anything else...

Never before has that old 'Mhz are not all there is' meant so much. I have an 800Mhz C3 and it is slooooow. Benchmarks show the FPU perfomance as about the same as a K6-2/450.

I like it, because it runs totally silently, and it does have enough oomph to run FreeBSD, X and an MP3 player from flash, but it is NOT similar to other 800Mhz processors.

Incidentally, another possiblity that a friend has tried is underclocking Tualatin Celerons. Apparently, his 1.2Ghz Cel running at 800Mhz will also run fanless, and I bet he gets better performance out of it too.

My goofy setup

[scumdamn]

I've got a headless box running Windows 98 (first edition) and TightVNC server. I store all my MP3 files on the drive of that system and VNC in to play them. It's not like you need to do anything but setup a playlist and go, so I just close the connection after I get them started.

write one yourself

[ethanms]

add something to the universe... write one yourself... or just make a huge button'd skin for ximm...

A windows app that could be used

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't tested this one out yet but it looks themable.

Media-Box.org

Or here is a cool Windows Jukebox app.
Ultimate Mp3 Jukebox

older machine and $12 dollars

[Anonymous Coward]

Grab an older machine. I use an amd550, 128 ram and 70 gigs of mp3. Install Beos Personal Edition, Soundplay, "Be in your Stereo", "Army Knife", RipEnc and be done with this foolishness. Soundplay is $12. Everything else is free. If you take my advice you are in for a treat. Let me put it this way, can Windows or Linux play 17 mp3s at the same time? Can they play them backward as well as forward? Not bad for a "dead" os.

what i really want...

[Adler]

I am in the market for a new CD player deck, i like the 100 disk or more decks due to my huge CD collection, but dont want to enter all the titles manually, what would be cool is a CD player with ethernet that will, when a new CD is loaded, goto the CDDB or freeDB and get the discs info. Or a CD deck that will talk to my computer, so i can get the info that way. THAT would rock.

Use a browser-based interface

[jrexilius]

I have the same setup and i wrote a browser interface that used big pretty pictures and was easy to manipulate with low-res TV display. It was pretty simple but effective.

Slimp3

[gessel]

Slimp3 works really well, exactly the right solution to this problem.

check it out.

Disclaimer - I have friends there, but I wouldn't let it bias my opinion: I use it and it rocks.

A bit of a side issue...

[HaggiZ]

But does anybody have any advice on creating a small portable mp3 player? I'd love to create one that I could mod and add to myself as time allowed and need required. Possibly adding an 802.11b adapter, bluetooth headset just for the sake of it, etc. At this stage all I'd want was a small HDD, and interface, and somewhere to plug in headphones. Ideas on where to start anybody?

Check out irmp3!

[dpotter]

You might want to take a look at irmp3, an open source mp3 jukebox for linux designed especially for use with infrared remotes. It meets your criteria 1-4 (.ogg support is brand new, some of 5-7 and the price is right.

This sounds like what you want...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.mpsharp.com/

mms

[daserver]

My project mms has all the above requirements if combined with a linux box and a dxr3 :) you can find it here.

Um, Wrong and No.

[Snork Asaurus]

The trouble with subjects like this is that one has to write a book in order not to be misunderstood. The discrepancy about which I speak has to do with the fact that ITU-R-BT.601 (Studio Encoding Parameters of Digital Television for Standard 4:3 and Wide-Screen 16:9 Aspect Ratios), loosely referred to as the SDI standard, describes a digital active line time for 525-line television (which is not called NTSC in the digital domain), and 625-line television (not called PAL in the digital domain) that is different than that of the analog NTSC or PAL active line time.

To be more specific, the digital active (or unblanked) line time for both 525 and 625 (under the 601 standard) is 53.33 usec and the pixel time, based on a 13.5 MHz clock (under this standard) is 74.074nsec, yielding a horizontal pixel count of (53.33usec/74.074nsec) = 719.95572 pixels ~= 720 pixels/active line. In contrast, the NTSC standard specs an active line time of 52.7 usec. In the digital processing of analog television, the 74.074nsec pixel time is used again. So, doing the math, we have a pixel count of (52.7 usec/74.074nsec ) = 711.450711 pixels ~= 712 pixels/active line. PAL specs an active line time of 52 usec. Doing the math, we have a pixel count of (52 usec/74.074nsec ) = 702.000702 pixels ~= 702 pixels/active line. Yes, I erroneously gave the PAL number in my original post - my bad - I did it from memory and the last time I dealt with it was about 3 years ago.

There are other discrepancies explained in my original post that I can't locate, like why we say that NTSC is 30 frames/sec when it is in fact 29.97 frames/sec, why we say there a 2 fields in PAL, but a 4-field sequence, why we sometimes say that there are 486 and sometimes 487 active lines in NTSC (and 576/577 in PAL), but as I said, I can't find it and it's too far off-topic to write again.

I even tried Google but no luck ... ntsc scanlines [google.com]

Not what I was talking about! I was trying to use google to find my AC post at Slashdot (where I gave a complete overview of the numbers, the math and the cause of the discrepancies) because the Slashdot search engine is so lame.

That's all and good night.

MConsole

[mkc_673]

Hello.
I've been working on the mediaconsole project which may fullfill your need. The sourceforge project page (http://www.sf.net/projects/mediaconsole/) describes it as "An interface that allows users to display media files (video, audio) in a simple manner. Designed for use on a tv (computer w/ tv out) with a remote control. Will support by default: mplayer, mpg321. Mp3, ogg, mpeg, avi, divx, dvd, cda will be supported."
It uses SDL for an interface, lirc (or a keyboard) for input, and mplayer for media output. It hasn't been actively developed over the last month, but I will be refocusing my attention to it soon. Let me know if you're interested and have any suggestions, and check out the CVS.

Full Screen Winamp Skin

[nuxx]

The only thing that is needed to make Winamp a viable front end for something like this is a full screen skin for Winamp 3.x. I personally would like 1024x768 one for the notebook in the kitchen... 800x600 would be good for some of the cheaper commidity touchscreens out there, too.

LIRC & mpg321 works for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I want an MP3 jukebox that my wife and kids
can use(they don't like computers as much as
I do). My solution is a remote
control interface using LIRC, mpg321 and
a bit of custom glue. The idea is to print
out a book of title/track info that you can
look through in the living room. You find what
you want to listen to and punch in the associated
4-digit code using the remote control.

A box is setup with the LIRC IR detector, sound
card output to stereo, and harddrive with MP3's.
You can pause, stop, start, vol-up,dn, next-song
bla, bla. Advanced features would be to form
custom music lists, random play, repeat title,
interface remote /LIRC with other stereo equipment, limited only to your imagination!
It's a work in progress, but its fun stuff to
play with. If you are interested in my half-baked
software, try http://www.turbobit.com and look
thru the LIRC notes. Or roll your own.

Beer!!!

[Carbon Unit 549]

The guy's got a half finished Sam Adams on the assembly counter!
beer

Ya gotta love these guys!

Re:Beer!!!

[Hoser McMoose]

Damn, where do I apply to work for this company? I want to drink beer at work too! :>

AUDIOTRON ROCKS!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Get an AudioTron. No ogg support (yet) and no TV out (Why do you want you TV on 24/7 anyway?) but it's got everything else.
I have 3 of them. One I bought direct when they first came out a few years back. Then picked up 2 more when BestBuy sold them off for 150 bucks.
I love 'em. At least 1 is playing 24/7.

I use my laptop and 802.11b card as a fancy remote.

Re:AUDIOTRON ROCKS!!!!

[MisterBlue]

As another happy Audiotron user, I will also point out that it is not only controllable from it's ethernet connection (both web interface and a programatic interface) but it has an IR remote. It's a nice device that integrates well into an audio rack.

Sadly, no ogg yet -- they too are wrestling with the shoe horning of ogg into an ARM processor.

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's because we're all intellectually dishonest, nihilist anarchists!!!

No one has suggested a Dreamcast???

[Anonymous Coward]

Jeez, I thought we were a bunch of enthusiasts...

But the dreamcast makes an excellent standalone MP3 player, especially since the VMU has a display on it that allows you to view the MP3 ID tag!

go to http://www.dcemulation.com and check it out!

SMB? 1, 2 ,3 or World?

[Anonymous Coward]

I like Yoshi's Island best.

and for a remote?

[GunFodder]

Get an iRMan input device and a universal remote. It is pretty easy to make WinAmp work with this remote solution. I still haven't spent the time getting my remote to work with ATI's multimedia center, which is a bit trickier.

A suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you take your righteous indignation and shove it up your ass?

Maybe you weren't paying attention to the other thousand discussions on /. regarding intellectual property. Most people don't seem to care too much about current copyright law, especially since the victims are multibillion dollar corporations.

You sound like you are trying to cover your ass. Are you worried about being sued by the RIAA for reading this thread? That is truly paranoid.

irmp3

[zWalther]

Ok, this is not exactly what you asked, but I'm going to say it anyway. I use irmp3 to play my mp3's. I control it with my remote (lirc) and I believe it can also give output to TV.

Linn !

[Anonymous Coward]

Linn Kivor

600 CDs at full quality.

Supports Linn Knekt system so you can use it any room of your house.

REAL audiophile quality, not the poor excuse for music that MP3 offers.

Um.. maybe Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

I might be wrong, but why don't you just install windows and be done with it. I mean really, you won't have problems with windows in 98, its much cheaper than a component, it will do the same thing and be more versititle, it will play downloaded movies and stuff, and it will be a better music player (once you install winamp) then a linux machine was. And, oh yes, did I mention you can actually use your TV in card in windows since it actually has drivers (I know, isn't it amazing that you don't have to write your own drivers in windows, when will those people ever learn?) so you can have a pvr. Is it just me or is this a no brainer. IF you really want to get fancy you can pick up a cordless ms explorer optical mouse and keyboard too. Will the magic never cease?

get a Mini-ITX system

[g4dget]

Consider getting a Mini-ITX system (mini-itx.com). For about $200, you can get a system with processor, memory, and a nice small case (e.g., caseoutlet.com). Just add a disk and install Linux on it. The system has TV-out and a bunch of other features.

FM Radio do nicely for me

[aweussom]

I purchased a FM Stero transmitter from Veronica Kits (http://www.veronica-kits.co.uk/) that I attached to a second soundcard in my desktop machine. On this, I run WinAMP that is controlled by Brink's WinAMP controller (BR 924, http://www.brinck.com/)

All I need to purchase now is one of those many cheap IR-to-radio transponders so I can remote control my WinAMP from anywhere in the house.

Yes, this would work on Linux. Better, more likely :)

Main issue is no visual feedback of song/playlist selection. I can live with that.

why the hell TV out?

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it funny that supposed technofiles want this stupid tv out on their mp3 player yet they dont demand it from their 100 disc cd changer..

I find the audiotron's screen easy to read from the 11 feet I sit away from the equipment... and I rarey look at it anyways as only a loser would want to look at the TV.. I use my wireless webpad and access the audiotron's HTTPD served HTML pages for control.

Ogg support is a cool want... but the TV out is purely stupid.

I REFUSE to turn on my television to listen to my stereo... it's an idiotic thing to do.

Re:why the hell TV out?

[nitetide]

I agree, I use the Audiotron in my setup as well, works great as long as you got an external DAC to connect it to. The analog outs suck.

copyright infringing moron

[Anonymous Coward]

Here we go again, the Open Source community is expected to find a solution for this loser so he/she can more easily infringe upon copyright. The poster says so in the first sentence. The poster has every right in the world to space shift his/her own collection. Unless it is guaranteed that the version ripped from a friend's CD will never be played at the same time as the original or another copy of the original, it is copyright infringement. I hate the RIAA/MPAA extortionists as much as anyone else, but behaviors like this make it much harder to support the case opposing mandatory controls in hardware with associated certified software in legislative and judicial circles. Just because you ripped it from your friends CD instead of downloading it doesn't change the legal issues at all.

this is how I did it...

[da5idnetlimit.com]

I have almost the same problem as you have, and found another solution :

I put a small linux box as a fileserver in a room. It runs on e-smith gateway server (basically a "linux for the dumbs" red hat 7.1 with smb, http, ftp, pdc, webmail,...)

On this computer I put a small php script caled Andromeda Jukebox (www.turnstyle.com/andromeda/) and put the files in a web directory.

Et Voila ! 8)

This php script allows me to stream anything from my linux box to the box connected to the tv.

Mp3 and Ogg, but also any Avi / Mpeg / Rm, or even a doc or xls file.

U acced through a webpage, choose what to stream and click...

I used a Win2000 Pro to connect to the TV... here the TV Conf : Duron 1.3 Gigs, 40 gigs HDD, Xentor TNT2 Ultra with TV out, 6x DVD-rom, Creative Live 5.1 and a realtek ethernet card.

Anytime I need more space, I add a hdd, pud a link on the php script to the folder and it's aceesible through the webpage.

Why a Win 2000 ? because I have no problem getting 800*600 on my tv, and thats enough for any dvd/AVI I want to see, and Winamp works great at those resolutions, the movies look crisp from a dvd or a fansub...and the computer can decode even the latest divx 5 or Xvid Avis

The linux box is a PII 350 with 256 Mo Ram and some HHDs. As a fileserver with streaming capabilities, it's perfect... and also provide me with web, ftp, is my pdc, could become my gateway... and easy to set up... Could work on a P133 (my previous linux rig was)

So here it is. All your 7 wishes granted 8)
A bit early for christmas, but then...

Try the Barix AudioNetwork Device

[Anonymous Coward]

Go and have a look at Barix. They make a little box called the ExStreamer. It streams MP3 (don't know about OGG) from a networked server and plays it.

It's controlled by a webbrowser (contains a built in HTTP server).

And it's a cheap solution ($149) if I remember correctly.

Barix just came out with this little device.

Dislaimer: I have had a working prototype of this device for a couple of months hooked up to a pair of Fostex monitor speakers. Sounded great, worked great.

A better remote

[los furtive]

Get the ATI RF USB remote (available from their site). Works like a usb mouse but is a touch pad on the remote, removes line of site issues since it's RF, and is just damn plain cool.

Re:A better remote

[Anonymous Coward]

If you purchase the ATI all-in-wonder Readeon (either 7500 or 8500) it comes with the RF remote. Would love to have drivers that work under linux, but for now I am relagated to using windows on my entertainment PC. As long as you are using windows though, I suggest Music Match Jukebox. I believe it is a Sony product. Works great, and the visualizations look awesome on a TV.

Here's what i would use

[nuckin futs]

how about an Apple iBook, M-Audio's Sonica, and Keyspan's Digital Media Remote.

Re: Upgrade for Raw audio to SliMP3

[erl]

Would that require a hardware upgrade of the SliMP3, or could it be an upgrade to existing devices?

I think such a feature would be great, and facilitate for instance playing synthesized speech from the computer system to the user.

I'm planning to buy a SliMP3 within a month (when a friend of mine is coming to Europe from the US; the shipping rates to Sweden were very high! About $65 I think).

"...CD's that I personall own or have borrowed"

[fire-eyes]

"I currently have a rather large digital music collection. It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends.

Yyyeah, righto mate. Nice legal disclaimer!

Example: papasmurf.c is only for educational purposes! Use at your own risk! :)

ever tried CAMP? (mpg123 frontend for the console)

[Ixe]

Check around freshmeat, there are tons of free players/jukeboxes what have you, and some of them are controllable by joystick, which would solve the not seeing the buttons part. (xmms does that also I believe)

As for a standalone player, I've seen MP3 and MP3CD players all over, but ogg is still a little undeveloped in the consumer world I think (someone's gonna come and correct me w/ some links to ogg players, that's fine, but there are still many more MP3 players). I think a small linux client would be best, even w/o X11, just get some sort of remote control such as a joystick or IR and don't even mess with the TV...unless of course you really wanna watch discotux, which I think is one of the coolest things in xmms :)

One thing I was personally thinking of doing sometime was a music server in my car, I'd get a UPS, plug it into a power-inverter, and build a small machine, say Pentium 90Mhzish, then I'd throw a 60 or 80gig hard drive on there and wire it;s sound card output to an AUX in on my receiver..... still a dream at this point, and not too economically friendly when you realize that you can get a kenwood 10-MP3CD changer (100 hours of music is enough for driving around right?)from crutchfield for about the same price...

mp3 player

[JollyTX]

This reminds me of something that I created a couple of years ago. I had an Amiga with a terminal emulator hooked up to the TV, and an IR receiver plugged into the Amigas parallell port. A program in the Amiga read the IR receiver (and sent faked IDCMP keystroke messages to the terminal program). A PC used the Amiga as a terminal through a null-modem cable and output ANSI-"graphics" to the Amiga/TV and received IR keystrokes as regular characters. Finally the sound output from the PC was connected to my hifi system.

Yep, this was before I had a PC with a TV-out connector. :) I was gonna make a fancier graphical program but never got around to it and now all of this is gone... :(

If you want 802.11, get Linksys WET11

[hqm]

If you want 802.11 to hook to an ethernet device, you can get the linksys WET11 wireless ethernet bridge for http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=4 32&grid=22

I got one to use for my Model 28 teletype server, which runs in the living room.

My solution (includes Linux)

[gosand]

I wanted the same thing, so here is what I did to solve it. The only thing I would like would be to have remote control support.

Dell PII machine (about $85 at the time)

decent sound card (about $25)

4MB video card w/TVout (cheap)

GNUMP3d serving up the MP3s over my network (very cool and easy mp3 server, supports ogg. Can be set to stream or download files)

The Dell system came with a 2GB hard drive, which I installed Redhat7.3 on. I couldn't get Xwindows to work right with the TVout. So I installed Win98, it all worked fine. But I wasn't happy with it. Then I found Knoppix. This improved my system in two ways:
1. It is running Linux
2. It is near silent.
Because Knoppix boots off the CD, I didn't need the hard drive anymore. It plays all my MP3s over my network.

It could be a cooler setup, but it works for me. The interface is web based, so I do have to use a mouse/keyboard, but it is a small price to pay. I suppose you could get IR controls working, or get a wireless mouse/keyboard.

HP DE100C -- Best Cancelled Product Ever!

[Anonymous Coward]

HP had a linux based box called the DE100C that had TOSLINK out, S-video for the PC, A CD burner, ethernet, Modem. They listed for $999... so they didn't fly off the shelf.

HP cancelled the unit, and the good developers at HP unlocked it so that their customers could gain root access. Now, folks are busy hacking it to make it more powerful.
Slick box, serves up media to audiotrons/Rio recievers... highly recomended if you can find one. They have been listed as cheap as $300.

Server Side Horsepower?

[ipmcc]

There has been mention here that OGG is too intensive to decode on a little embedded device, and setting up a server to transcode to MP3 as a way around this. While this all well and good, I was wondering if anyone knows of a solution that plays uncompressed streams. For instance decode the ogg on the server and stream it as a WAV to the player. I often find myself being in posession of weird audio formats (like Shorten, high resolution WAV files, and AC3 wavs for example), and the only common thread to play them all would be an uncompressed stream. Now in terms of horsepower, this should be a no brainer: what could be easier than bit blitting from ethernet to a DAC or S/PDIF port? In terms of bandwidth, we're talking 500KBytes/sec for 96Khz/24bit Stereo, which could easily be sustained by any ethernet network (OK I guess 2MBit Wi-Fi would be a problem, but...)

The impression that I get is that nothing really supports WAV playing which seems really moronic. If someone could prove me wrong I would be thrilled to hear it.

What I did.

[Peredur]

1) Set up a LAN.
2) Installed VNC Server on the linux box with the mp3 files.
3) Installed VNC Client on my Winderz box in the bedroom.
4) Use Xmms to play music after conneecting to the linux box from the windows box.
5) Listen to music.

VNC can be found at: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/

FM Transmitter

[pop1280]

I built one to hook up to my MP3 server, and it's worked great. Now my server has a cron job to play the appropriate playlists at certain times of day. The other benefit is that it can do non-MP3 things, such as download the weather forecast and read it (using festival) to me. I also made a pretty simple web interface for when I need to pick songs to play or create a new playlist.

Here's a link to my model. I've been very happy with it. It took about 15 hours to put together (including time to learn to solder).

Re:FM Transmitter

[gantz]

I just built this one:

http://www.northcountryradio.com/mpx96int.htm

to do the same thing. The ramsey is cool, except for the BA1404 stereo encoder, which sucks. The mpx96 has a discrete encoder. Sounds effin great. Also, dckits has a pretty good PLL with a 2035 based encoder. Not bad.

http://dckits.com/stcast.htm

My kit puts out about 100mW, which is enough to capture over strong stations for a few blocks.

But what about software?

[jackbang]

I've been trying to arrange something similar. My solution is to use a "spare" laptop that sits next to the couch. It accesses the music on my server via a wireless Ethernet card and the audio out runs to my stereo.

The real problem for me is software. I don't want to dig through my collection to put together a playlist. I want a smart jukebox, something that does more than just randomize a set of songs.

Does anyone know of a playlist generator that will use the ID3 tags to allow me to do things like say "Make a playlist that lasts 2 hours of songs that are from 1990 - 1993 in the genres of indie or alternative, without repeating any songs from the same artist"?

The last part is the one where all the solutions I've seen fail. I always end up with a list of "random" songs that will contain the same artist 10 times in a row, even though I have hundreds of artists in my collection.

Re:Article....

[diesel_jackass]

...or how about Merriam-Webster's instead?

I wrote a custom webservice

[clifwlkr]

I was running into the same problems you are encountering, and really didn't like any of the solutions out there. I tried them all. I had a few additional requirements, however, that was driving this. I have a couple of different stereos that drive speakers both inside and outside the house. I really wanted to have the SAME music playing everywhere. Custom wiring is just plain too expensive and not practical after your walls are up. So here is what I did.

I started with a linux box running a standard web server. This serves up all of my MP3's. It also runs Samba as an alternative connecting mechanism. This is the basis of my music storage.

Second, I have a windows 2k machine that runs several things on it. First, it runs winamp 2.x. I wrote custom software on this that exports a soap based service, using apache tomcat, to export ALL of the functionalities of winamp control. I also wrote a series of servlets that export this soap service in a web interface. All of this was done in Java, with a small JNI library to interface to winamp.

Finally, I also wrote a java application that gives me a rich interface to the soap service, including browsing all of the music titles in a file/folder format, through the web server. I can fast forward/pause/add or remove songs from the play list. The best feature I added was a random function that queues up a song when the last song in the playlist is reached. It chooses from your entire music collection, but it only happens if you are 'out' of songs.

Finally, I exported the sound to ALL rooms in the house using the leapfrog system that sends audio over the phone lines. It is not ideal quality, but still is quite good. I have one transmitter, and three receivers in the house.

What this gives me:

Complete control of the music from ANY PC in the house using the rich java interface.

Control of the music from my iPaq using the web interface. I can sit in the hot tub outside, and change the music!

A great interface to winamp that is alot more pleasant to use than the playlist style.

So far, I love it. More importantly, it is almost 100 percent pure java. Only one small interface through JNI. I have been in heaven since I got this thing working.

It was a great project to teach me how web services and SOAP can really be used to solve a problem.

Jim Olsen

Motorola SimpliFi

[makers]

The Motorola SimpliFi is probably what they're talking about. It has a wireless connection to a transmitter which plugs into a USB port on your computer. No ethernet connection, just the wireless link. It also has some PC software for making it work so if you want this on your linux box there could be trouble. But it also works with streaming audio which is kinda cool. Here's CNET:

href="http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0- 9400736-1304-9050945.html?tag=pdtl-list

Keep the Computer

[rsatter]

I just got back from CEDIA conference (Custom Electronic Designers and Installers Association conference) where there were a lot of MP3 components. And everyone single one was overpriced, under powered and not worth the electronics put into them. Sure you go that way but anyone with the ability to put togather an MP3 server could do a much better job than I have seen by the stereo industry thus far. Not to mention that adding a DVD player and a hardware decoder will get you a fantastic AV component that will rival anything you can currently buy at any price. Just get yourself PowerStrip which will fix the display problem. Then a good IR controller and your ready to rock. I would mention that it would be really smart to get a good sound card say a M-Audio 2496 a lot of soundcards don't sound any good in a stereo setup.

globecome jukebox

[pablo_mccombs]

I've been using globecom jukebox. It's based on perl scripts and php web pages, all of which are user customiseable (if you know what you're doing) It's a bit of a pain to get everything working, but there is a lot of help available inthe sourceforge help forum. I was able to get everything working for me in about 3 evenings after work. I'm running it on a PII 266 with 128 MB of RAM. It has just enough gumption to rip, encode to MP3 and play mp3 out to the soundcard, while serving up the web page. It's customizeable enough that you can play Ogg files with it as well. Check it out.

View your playlist on your remote!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I have the ultimate solution set up.
I have a mandrake box with andromeda as a fileserver on a 802.11b network. I access it thru my Pocket PC which has a built in 802.11b NIC. So with this setup I choose what playlists, single mp3/ogg or movies I wanna play on my remote =D

The "impress-your-friends" factor of this setup is unbeatable, hehe

Regards

Use your PS2

[duckworth]

A new product that recently came out allows you to play mp3's, mpegs, divx, etc. through your Play Station 2. You need the broadband ethernet adapter and it will play files off of another computer on the same network. Haven't actually seen it in action but it seems like a great idea.

http://www.broadq.com/

Mini-ITX

[Vince]

Get a Mini-ITX computer. You can build a case yourself into almost any form factor. Or, you can buy it with a case that fits well into a stereo system: http://www.checkercube.com/store/Online-ITX.html
Just add an IRMAN remote and a sound card with digital out, and you're set.

TV Resolution

[clifflynch]

My 20" WEGA runs all the res modes, but they pretty much look like crap. Hard to read text, but at least XP did better with shortcut fonts. Could somebody tell me what res and refresh rate a TV should be run at to avoid damage? I'm currently running a GeForce4 MX420 (yes, one of THOSE...) with TV/OUT as a clone of the desktop.

P.S. Detonator 40.41's don't clone video like they used to in 29.82. They suck!

What about

[mixmasta]

WAV and FLAC?

I'm over mp3, ogg, etc. I am ripping my cd's for the *last* time.

Yes a 320G drive is in my immediate future, as soon as it comes out .... ...

If he's canadian it's legal

[Hillman]

Why do you think that up here we pay a levy on CD-R?

Solution to your problems

[Anonymous Coward]

I have just bought one of these wonder Mini-Pc ( which run Linux) in the UK from http://www.paysan.co.uk and can be ordered WWW from
http://www.atoz-ezgo.com.tw/products.htm

This should do everything you want from it as the fraction of the size of a standard desktop/settop.

Apprantly they are availbe from £199

Re: Audiotron and Net radio.

[zerofoo]

Right! I forgot about net radio. I actually found some new artists on net radio...and guess what? I went out and bought their CDs! The RIAA should be thankful that net radio can play the music that clear channel and the like refuse to play.

Non-top 40 artists should be pissed that the RIAA is persecuting net radio....it could be their only shot at airplay.

-ted