Interesting post. I'm also an experienced Java developer and have settled on an almost identical API/Framework stack as the ones you mention (although I prefer WebWork to Struts). I agree that the configuration to juggle all these libraries together can be daunting at first.
I've had a half day play with RoR, but didn't really have enough time to get too involved. It does look interesting, although the way the model domain is tied so definitively to the DB schema does concern me. I'm not sure why - maybe I'm just used to the model domain living as POJO's. Maybe it's unwarranted.
One question I do have though. How much faster is RoR over Java once you have the Java development/build/staging/production environment configured and running smoothly?
Thanks for the link to openexchange. It looks like it performs a lot of the functions of outlook, the problem is that, just looking at the install instructions, I need to be worrying about DBMS's, SMTP and IMAP servers, I need a C compiler, Java, Perl modules etc. etc.
I'm not quite sure how that is going to make it less of a headache to maintain than Exchange?
Let me expand on my original post. We use Exchange for the following reasons:
- It works, is fairly low maintenance and IS stable. - It allows us to share contacts, calendars and email if necessary - It allows us to schedule meetings without the other attendees being present. - It syncs with our PDA's perfectly, both at home, at work and over the air - It has an excellent, usable web based interface when away from the office
I'm no MS fanboy. We write Java based web applications. We almost always deploy to Linux. We recommend Linux servers to our clients. We love Linux.
The thing is that I want my company to succeed, and that means using the best tool for the job. In the case of serving up java web apps, Linux is est. In the case of a groupware server, Exchange is best. Simple as that.
How much is exchange? About 1.5 days of my time. Now, if you can find me an OSS application that does all of the above and will take me less than 1.5 days to install, configure and support, I'm all ears. As it is, I'll stick with Exchange. Sorry.
Until someone comes up with an all-in-one replacement for Exchange Server, there will be no rest.
I run a small (5 person) business, and we try to use FOSS as much as possible. I could not find anything out there to replace our Exchange Server. It works, it's stable (2003 is, anyway), it syncs with our PDAs etc. etc. etc...
I think you need to re-read my post. I didn't even need to use my machine in the UK. The fact was that I could have if I had wanted to. SSH is not censored.
I spent a few weeks travelling around China last year, and the only censorship I ever witnessed was the blocking of the BBC website. I could SSH to work machines in the UK (and securely proxy'd off them if I had so wished).
The BBC News stories were, naturally, all being aggregated by Google News.
I arrived excited to witness this mass censorship in action, and jubilant that I couldnt really find anything of the sort.
When are/. going to start distributing "-1 - Google Sycophantia" mod points?
I, for one, welcome our "we're not evil, but we are a publicly owned corporation, just like all the other fuckers; give it a few years before we turn into another bunch of wankers" overlords.
I only skimmed TFA but it could be that they are going to be developing third party XUL apps for other companies.
Like this one.
Imagine if AmEx wanted a XUL app for their customers to check their statements etc. etc., but dont want to pay to skill up a dev team to write the XUL app...
Having read TFA I noticed (if I read it right anyway) that the two caching strategies of each stack were very, very different.
RoR was taking the entire page output of a new request, caching it, and then sending that entire result for subsequent, similar requests.
The Java stack, OTOH, was using some fairly complex middle and data tier caching inside Spring and Hibernate.
These are VERY different caching strategies. I'd be interested to see the results if the author had used something like OsCache
on the Java stack.
My company powered the site for a very large UK awards show, and used OsCache heavily; the results were fairly impressive, allowing us to soak almost half of the server's 100Mbit network pipe at peak traffic without putting a great deal of load on the server (I think top was showing around 0.5/0.6 at peak load, although I realise that this is not a good indicator of load).
A lot of ADSL connections in the UK now come with bandwidth limits, and charges per GB over the standard monthly utilisation. This is a relatively new concept in retail broadband in the UK (In Oz it is almost the standard).
Anyway, it's sort of weird that the ISPs now actually have a vested interest in their users contracting malware; they make more money out of it in over-charges...
I'm a Brit that lived in Oz for a year where they had just introduced PIN authorisation (it has the brand name "EFTPOS" over there, which rolls off the tonger very easily, sort of). Anyway, the Aussies saw a dramatic reduction in CC fraud following the roll out of the PIN terminals in stores. I dont remember the exact figures, but they were very substantial - something like 80%/85%.
Again, I dont remember the exact figures, but the roll out costs in the UK of new cards and new PIN authorisation terminals in stores are going to be recouped by the banks very quickly indeed.
Slashdot Mirror
Interesting background on the creation of OSM:
a sant/2005/11/the_certain_thi.html
http://dennisthepeasant.typepad.com/dennis_the_pe
Doesn't sound like their principles are very "open source"...
My god, it's full of holes.
How on earth is the Prius underpowered?
Interesting post. I'm also an experienced Java developer and have settled on an almost identical API/Framework stack as the ones you mention (although I prefer WebWork to Struts). I agree that the configuration to juggle all these libraries together can be daunting at first.
I've had a half day play with RoR, but didn't really have enough time to get too involved. It does look interesting, although the way the model domain is tied so definitively to the DB schema does concern me. I'm not sure why - maybe I'm just used to the model domain living as POJO's. Maybe it's unwarranted.
One question I do have though. How much faster is RoR over Java once you have the Java development/build/staging/production environment configured and running smoothly?
Last time I tried to install Ubuntu (about 4 months ago) it couldn't recognise my SATA controller (was on a fairly standard Abit NF7-S board...)
Will it go straight onto an SATA drive?
Can someone explain to me how you access a thick client application from a browser toolbar?
And how do you sync your PDAs?
Thanks for the link to openexchange. It looks like it performs a lot of the functions of outlook, the problem is that, just looking at the install instructions, I need to be worrying about DBMS's, SMTP and IMAP servers, I need a C compiler, Java, Perl modules etc. etc.
I'm not quite sure how that is going to make it less of a headache to maintain than Exchange?
Suse OpenExchange is over $1000 US?
Let me expand on my original post. We use Exchange for the following reasons:
- It works, is fairly low maintenance and IS stable.
- It allows us to share contacts, calendars and email if necessary
- It allows us to schedule meetings without the other attendees being present.
- It syncs with our PDA's perfectly, both at home, at work and over the air
- It has an excellent, usable web based interface when away from the office
I'm no MS fanboy. We write Java based web applications. We almost always deploy to Linux. We recommend Linux servers to our clients. We love Linux.
The thing is that I want my company to succeed, and that means using the best tool for the job. In the case of serving up java web apps, Linux is est. In the case of a groupware server, Exchange is best. Simple as that.
How much is exchange? About 1.5 days of my time. Now, if you can find me an OSS application that does all of the above and will take me less than 1.5 days to install, configure and support, I'm all ears. As it is, I'll stick with Exchange. Sorry.
That's the problem though. I dont have time to be compiling LDAP. I just need things to install and work.
Until someone comes up with an all-in-one replacement for Exchange Server, there will be no rest.
I run a small (5 person) business, and we try to use FOSS as much as possible. I could not find anything out there to replace our Exchange Server. It works, it's stable (2003 is, anyway), it syncs with our PDAs etc. etc. etc...
"Do no evil" eh? Wankers.
Overclockers are a joke. Have a look here: Feedback
I think you need to re-read my post. I didn't even need to use my machine in the UK. The fact was that I could have if I had wanted to. SSH is not censored.
Not really, no. ONE outside news source being restricted, which could be easily circumvented, is hardly what I would define as mass censorship.
I spent a few weeks travelling around China last year, and the only censorship I ever witnessed was the blocking of the BBC website. I could SSH to work machines in the UK (and securely proxy'd off them if I had so wished).
The BBC News stories were, naturally, all being aggregated by Google News.
I arrived excited to witness this mass censorship in action, and jubilant that I couldnt really find anything of the sort.
Whereas his web server is a train wreck. These jokes aren't funny, btw.
Fan-fucking-tastic.
When are /. going to start distributing "-1 - Google Sycophantia" mod points?
I, for one, welcome our "we're not evil, but we are a publicly owned corporation, just like all the other fuckers; give it a few years before we turn into another bunch of wankers" overlords.
Like this one. Imagine if AmEx wanted a XUL app for their customers to check their statements etc. etc., but dont want to pay to skill up a dev team to write the XUL app...
RoR was taking the entire page output of a new request, caching it, and then sending that entire result for subsequent, similar requests.
The Java stack, OTOH, was using some fairly complex middle and data tier caching inside Spring and Hibernate.
These are VERY different caching strategies. I'd be interested to see the results if the author had used something like OsCache on the Java stack.
My company powered the site for a very large UK awards show, and used OsCache heavily; the results were fairly impressive, allowing us to soak almost half of the server's 100Mbit network pipe at peak traffic without putting a great deal of load on the server (I think top was showing around 0.5/0.6 at peak load, although I realise that this is not a good indicator of load).
Fastest? please, only in read-only transactions running on tiny hardware...
What, you mean the model for almost all websites?
A lot of ADSL connections in the UK now come with bandwidth limits, and charges per GB over the standard monthly utilisation. This is a relatively new concept in retail broadband in the UK (In Oz it is almost the standard).
Anyway, it's sort of weird that the ISPs now actually have a vested interest in their users contracting malware; they make more money out of it in over-charges...
w00t! Finally we lead the world at something!
I'm a Brit that lived in Oz for a year where they had just introduced PIN authorisation (it has the brand name "EFTPOS" over there, which rolls off the tonger very easily, sort of). Anyway, the Aussies saw a dramatic reduction in CC fraud following the roll out of the PIN terminals in stores. I dont remember the exact figures, but they were very substantial - something like 80%/85%.
Again, I dont remember the exact figures, but the roll out costs in the UK of new cards and new PIN authorisation terminals in stores are going to be recouped by the banks very quickly indeed.