Chaos != Random Chaos is a middle-ground between purely ordered and purely random. There is structure in chaotic systems, it's only that on short orders of time it appears random to human neural signal processing - this is largely a limitation of the human capacity to perceive rather than a characteristic of the system observed.
So is there such a thing as random at all? If we perceive something to be random, could not just as easily be ordered in a way we don't recognise?
Or if random does exist, wouldn't the lack of any order constitute a type of order? A random sequence of numbers, given sufficient length, will contain "2,4,6,8"... Is that not order?
The way I see it (although I am not a mathematician), the major hurdle to realizing this is the fact that generating random numbers usually results in patterns.
Perhaps it's a semantical argument, but if you are producing patterns, you're not producing random numbers...
Okay, seriously. You want Audacity. It's multi-track sound-editing software, so you can prepare your subliminal messages and just add them into another waveform. Then you save the results.
Even easier: dd if=/dev/random of=/home/pegr/mycd.iso bs=512 count=50000000
Then burn with cdrecord. For different mixes, just run it again!;)
Why don't you follow my posts then jump on something recent? (Or just wait till we have some opposing views instead of just trying to provoke me?) I'm tired of this thread, but I love a good fight.
Old thread! You're late to the party. Try to show up on time next time, and you might even get a crack at the cheese dip. Too bad, the band was pretty hot.
No I don't have HBO, it's banned here in Canada...
You may not have HBO, but I've watched plenty of HBO programming in the Great White North. Don't remember if it was on Global or what, but I remember "Sex in the City" wasn't nearly as funny in French (I was in Montreal.)
What I found funny is that your original post was modded insiteful instead of funny...
Happens to me all the time. Esoteric humor, I guess.
That's why I change my sig for a few minutes to something like "It's a joke! Laugh!" so I can get a couple of "Funny" mods for the rest of the herd (hurd?;) to follow. Kinda like a laughtrack during a sitcom on TV. Lets people know when to laugh.
When did communism ever look great on chalkboards?
When you consider people as static variables and not prone to natural human influences. That's why you need checks and balances in any successful (and just) political system. It's terribly inefficient, but its a necessary price. As Franklin said:
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is... except for all others."
And all that for less than 100 million $. For that kind of money, NASA could probably produce a really nice paper study, but nothing that gets off the ground.
You misssed the first logic error. I made no statement. I merely posed a question. (And, yes, I intended for it to be funny. Had to alter my sig for a few minutes to say "Laugh! It's funny!" in order to get a few "funny" mods to get the ball rolling. Kinda like a sitcom laughtrack, I guess...)
OK, I'll make one last reply. Before anyone tells me, yes, I'm feeding the trolls. Sorry!
you claim that Palestinians only want to remove Israel. if they did not, Israel would embrace them with open arms.
i show and document that the opposite is true. Israel wants to remove the Palestinians from their land and expand it's borders. it set up settlements in the W.Bank, which needed military protection, so occupation was justified. i showed you the hard numbers as proof. Israel wants no more ethnic Arabs inside it's borders, because that would mean the end of a Jewish national state.
These positions are not opposite. They are both true and therefore not contradictory. Israel wants to distance themselves (literally) from the killers of Palestine. To argue by introducing a flawed presumption is dishonest. (You did that with the "open arms" reference, too. I never said that. There's too much hatred to get over first.)
And be careful when you try to justify strapping bombs on 12 year old boys to go kill innocents... i did not refer to any 12 year olds. that is a straw man argument.
No strawman there... You attempted to justify Palestinian violence. That is an example of Palestinian violence. True, it's not the usual flavor of Palestinian violence. Most of their bombers tend to be of legal age. But it is a legitimate incident to bring up because it is part and parcel consistent with the MO of Palestinian terror. Remove the age reference, and it's pretty much identical to hundreds of other bombings. I will give you one point. The child wasn't 12. He was 14.
You just might come out looking like an ass. Your style of argument certainly does that for you. you calling me an ass does not make me one. again, vulgarity.
I didn't call you an ass. I suggested those that attempt to justify Palestinian violence look like asses. I also suggested that your argument makes you look like an ass. Is it mildly vulgar? Absolutely. It's still pretty tame, though. Come on, you can find something better to bitch about. (Ohhh! More vulgarity!;) Interesting how your complaint about my mild vulgarity is positioned so prominently in your rebuttal...
it has nothing to do with their leaders. people usually choose as leaders those who they think share their beliefs and best represent them. maybe they think that because of Israel's policy they have no normal future:
Are you suggesting Palestinians vote for their leaders? Yes, technically they do, but I would suggest PNA elections aren't nearly as democratic as US or Western European democracies. Was Arafat opposed in the election? (I truly don't know.) Oh yes, Arafat... A known killer. I would also suggest that any constituency that would elect Arafat is morally bankrupt for some reason. Or perhaps the elections were kind of like the iraqis electing Saddam year after year? I do not know enough about them to suggest the PNA elections are a farce, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. The PNA was the PLO, for crying out loud...
But can you really justify their actions? but can you justify the following:
You side-stepped the question. As for the incidents you bring up, they are unfortunate, but they are all one-offs. They are not examples of standard MO's. I can find many instances of rape and murder in any town in the US, but that is not the normal experience for most US citizens. Your examples don't mean anything in the big picture (unlike my bomber reference, except, as I mentioned, the age of the bomber).
If so, you are as morally bankrupt as those that use terror for political gain. (Which is truly ironic... Are the Palestinians better off for terrorism? No, and that's my point.)
what is their alternative to terrorism? if they give up, they
I don't like to reply to trolls, but this is a cold thread, so it's just you and me, 'eh?
None of your points, some legit, others just hand-waving, negate anything I stated. And be careful when you try to justify strapping bombs on 12 year old boys to go kill innocents... You just might come out looking like an ass. Your style of argument certainly does that for you.
Let me summerize my point: While there is plently of guilt on both sides of the issue (as I stated originally), nothing can legitimize Palestinian tactics of terrorism. Palestinian leaders are exploiting misguided emotions of the ignorant Palestinian masses. Are the Palestinian people oppressed? I'd say yes. But can you really justify their actions? If so, you are as morally bankrupt as those that use terror for political gain. (Which is truly ironic... Are the Palestinians better off for terrorism? No, and that's my point.)
Understanding the reasons why does not justify the actions. [sarcasm] Now go vote for Anybody But Bush (because we all know the devil you don't know is better than the devil you know )[/sarcasm].
And if they weren't trying to remove israel from the face of the Earth, they would be welcome to participate in the economic, social, and political makeup of the society at large... Can't embrace my brother if he chooses to kill me and my people to get his political message across... Better to contain and kill the MF'ers... (In regard to removing Israel from the face of the earth, that's their STATED GOAL my friends. TAUGHT to SCHOOL CHILDREN!)
Not to be a political provocateur, but with what Israel has been up to the last few years, I'm sure that's exactly what they will do...
As opposed to what? Strapping it to some poor 10 or 15 year old kid who thinks he's soon going to be having his way with 72 virgins?
Yes. That's exactly correct. And until the Palestinian masses get it through their thick, religiously-warped, uneducated minds that they are sacrificing their youth, freedom, and future for the political squabblings of rich, power-mad immoral thugs (on BOTH sides...), this kind of thing will continue until they are all DEAD! But of course, I don't want to be a political provocateur...
At least in Utah they do. Which is nice, because they're admitting it's a product, not a service, and I can therefore remove the DRM (thanks DVD Jon!) and use it like I do any such product (like CDs) for personal, home use.
Actually, this may be the angle to throw away their terms of service. "You charged me sales tax, right? Must be a sale. By law, you cannot restrict what I do with a product you sell me (see "First Sale Doctrine"))" Would anyone care to step to the plate to test this one?
Why would you pay sales tax? They're not selling you anything. For a fee, you have permission to use the IP in a restricted way. This fee is not a sale.
You can't even resell the download you pay for as it's forbidden in their terms of service! If I can't sell it, I don't own it. If I don't own it, they didn't sell it to me. If they didn't sell it to me, theres no sale to tax.
You don't pay sales tax on your apartment rent, do you?
Slashdot Mirror
Chaos != Random
Chaos is a middle-ground between purely ordered and purely random. There is structure in chaotic systems, it's only that on short orders of time it appears random to human neural signal processing - this is largely a limitation of the human capacity to perceive rather than a characteristic of the system observed.
So is there such a thing as random at all? If we perceive something to be random, could not just as easily be ordered in a way we don't recognise?
Or if random does exist, wouldn't the lack of any order constitute a type of order? A random sequence of numbers, given sufficient length, will contain "2,4,6,8"... Is that not order?
The way I see it (although I am not a mathematician), the major hurdle to realizing this is the fact that generating random numbers usually results in patterns.
Perhaps it's a semantical argument, but if you are producing patterns, you're not producing random numbers...
Even simpler plans and cutaway drawing here
Thanks, I hate those difficult h-bomb plans...
The word is "sex" unless you expect your first-born to be either masculine or feminine.
;)
I should hope so!
Are you sure? I'd prefer male or female, personally.
Well, I guess you could always name him/her Pat!
The word is "sex" unless you expect your first-born to be either masculine or feminine.
I should hope so!
cruise missle? amateur!
the internet is knee deep in instructions on how to build and h-bomb.
Dude, I'm not touching that link through ten anonymous proxy servers...
No, this is just the answer to that guy in New Zealand with the DIY cruise missle! Hey, you wouldn't be that guys neighbor, would you? I'm beginning to understand now...
All I know is that if I were a kid in his neighborhood, I wouldn't be walking on his grass...
Okay, seriously. You want Audacity. It's multi-track sound-editing software, so you can prepare your subliminal messages and just add them into another waveform. Then you save the results.
;)
Even easier:
dd if=/dev/random of=/home/pegr/mycd.iso bs=512 count=50000000
Then burn with cdrecord. For different mixes, just run it again!
Why don't you follow my posts then jump on something recent? (Or just wait till we have some opposing views instead of just trying to provoke me?) I'm tired of this thread, but I love a good fight.
Old thread! You're late to the party. Try to show up on time next time, and you might even get a crack at the cheese dip. Too bad, the band was pretty hot.
No I don't have HBO, it's banned here in Canada...
You may not have HBO, but I've watched plenty of HBO programming in the Great White North. Don't remember if it was on Global or what, but I remember "Sex in the City" wasn't nearly as funny in French (I was in Montreal.)
Then again, I don't speak French...
What I found funny is that your original post was modded insiteful instead of funny...
Happens to me all the time. Esoteric humor, I guess.
That's why I change my sig for a few minutes to something like "It's a joke! Laugh!" so I can get a couple of "Funny" mods for the rest of the herd (hurd?;) to follow. Kinda like a laughtrack during a sitcom on TV. Lets people know when to laugh.
Brought to you by Cisco and Sun!
So whatever happened to Peek-A-Booty? Great idea, but talk about vaporware!
When did communism ever look great on chalkboards?
When you consider people as static variables and not prone to natural human influences. That's why you need checks and balances in any successful (and just) political system. It's terribly inefficient, but its a necessary price. As Franklin said:
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is... except for all others."
And all that for less than 100 million $. For that kind of money, NASA could probably produce a really nice paper study, but nothing that gets off the ground.
You could climb up on the paper...
You misssed the first logic error. I made no statement. I merely posed a question. (And, yes, I intended for it to be funny. Had to alter my sig for a few minutes to say "Laugh! It's funny!" in order to get a few "funny" mods to get the ball rolling. Kinda like a sitcom laughtrack, I guess...)
;p
Hey Iscariot! What facts did I get wrong?
Is it a significant milestone when a console becomes cheaper than the modchip for that console?
OK, I'll make one last reply. Before anyone tells me, yes, I'm feeding the trolls. Sorry!
;) Interesting how your complaint about my mild vulgarity is positioned so prominently in your rebuttal...
you claim that Palestinians only want to remove Israel. if they did not, Israel would embrace them with open arms.
i show and document that the opposite is true. Israel wants to remove the Palestinians from their land and expand it's borders. it set up settlements in the W.Bank, which needed military protection, so occupation was justified. i showed you the hard numbers as proof. Israel wants no more ethnic Arabs inside it's borders, because that would mean the end of a Jewish national state.
These positions are not opposite. They are both true and therefore not contradictory. Israel wants to distance themselves (literally) from the killers of Palestine. To argue by introducing a flawed presumption is dishonest. (You did that with the "open arms" reference, too. I never said that. There's too much hatred to get over first.)
And be careful when you try to justify strapping bombs on 12 year old boys to go kill innocents...
i did not refer to any 12 year olds. that is a straw man argument.
No strawman there... You attempted to justify Palestinian violence. That is an example of Palestinian violence. True, it's not the usual flavor of Palestinian violence. Most of their bombers tend to be of legal age. But it is a legitimate incident to bring up because it is part and parcel consistent with the MO of Palestinian terror. Remove the age reference, and it's pretty much identical to hundreds of other bombings. I will give you one point. The child wasn't 12. He was 14.
You just might come out looking like an ass. Your style of argument certainly does that for you.
you calling me an ass does not make me one. again, vulgarity.
I didn't call you an ass. I suggested those that attempt to justify Palestinian violence look like asses. I also suggested that your argument makes you look like an ass. Is it mildly vulgar? Absolutely. It's still pretty tame, though. Come on, you can find something better to bitch about. (Ohhh! More vulgarity!
it has nothing to do with their leaders. people usually choose as leaders those who they think share their beliefs and best represent them. maybe they think that because of Israel's policy they have no normal future:
Are you suggesting Palestinians vote for their leaders? Yes, technically they do, but I would suggest PNA elections aren't nearly as democratic as US or Western European democracies. Was Arafat opposed in the election? (I truly don't know.) Oh yes, Arafat... A known killer. I would also suggest that any constituency that would elect Arafat is morally bankrupt for some reason. Or perhaps the elections were kind of like the iraqis electing Saddam year after year? I do not know enough about them to suggest the PNA elections are a farce, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. The PNA was the PLO, for crying out loud...
But can you really justify their actions?
but can you justify the following:
You side-stepped the question. As for the incidents you bring up, they are unfortunate, but they are all one-offs. They are not examples of standard MO's. I can find many instances of rape and murder in any town in the US, but that is not the normal experience for most US citizens. Your examples don't mean anything in the big picture (unlike my bomber reference, except, as I mentioned, the age of the bomber).
If so, you are as morally bankrupt as those that use terror for political gain. (Which is truly ironic... Are the Palestinians better off for terrorism? No, and that's my point.)
what is their alternative to terrorism?
if they give up, they
I don't like to reply to trolls, but this is a cold thread, so it's just you and me, 'eh?
None of your points, some legit, others just hand-waving, negate anything I stated. And be careful when you try to justify strapping bombs on 12 year old boys to go kill innocents... You just might come out looking like an ass. Your style of argument certainly does that for you.
Let me summerize my point: While there is plently of guilt on both sides of the issue (as I stated originally), nothing can legitimize Palestinian tactics of terrorism. Palestinian leaders are exploiting misguided emotions of the ignorant Palestinian masses. Are the Palestinian people oppressed? I'd say yes. But can you really justify their actions? If so, you are as morally bankrupt as those that use terror for political gain. (Which is truly ironic... Are the Palestinians better off for terrorism? No, and that's my point.)
Understanding the reasons why does not justify the actions. [sarcasm] Now go vote for Anybody But Bush (because we all know the devil you don't know is better than the devil you know )[/sarcasm].
And if they weren't trying to remove israel from the face of the Earth, they would be welcome to participate in the economic, social, and political makeup of the society at large... Can't embrace my brother if he chooses to kill me and my people to get his political message across... Better to contain and kill the MF'ers... (In regard to removing Israel from the face of the earth, that's their STATED GOAL my friends. TAUGHT to SCHOOL CHILDREN!)
Not to be a political provocateur, but with what Israel has been up to the last few years, I'm sure that's exactly what they will do...
As opposed to what? Strapping it to some poor 10 or 15 year old kid who thinks he's soon going to be having his way with 72 virgins?
Yes. That's exactly correct. And until the Palestinian masses get it through their thick, religiously-warped, uneducated minds that they are sacrificing their youth, freedom, and future for the political squabblings of rich, power-mad immoral thugs (on BOTH sides...), this kind of thing will continue until they are all DEAD! But of course, I don't want to be a political provocateur...
Fly through window, Then EXPLODE... Now That would be cool.
Not to be a political provocateur, but with what Israel has been up to the last few years, I'm sure that's exactly what they will do...
At least in Utah they do. Which is nice, because they're admitting it's a product, not a service, and I can therefore remove the DRM (thanks DVD Jon!) and use it like I do any such product (like CDs) for personal, home use.
Actually, this may be the angle to throw away their terms of service. "You charged me sales tax, right? Must be a sale. By law, you cannot restrict what I do with a product you sell me (see "First Sale Doctrine"))" Would anyone care to step to the plate to test this one?
Why would you pay sales tax? They're not selling you anything. For a fee, you have permission to use the IP in a restricted way. This fee is not a sale.
You can't even resell the download you pay for as it's forbidden in their terms of service! If I can't sell it, I don't own it. If I don't own it, they didn't sell it to me. If they didn't sell it to me, theres no sale to tax.
You don't pay sales tax on your apartment rent, do you?