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Microdrone Spy Planes
glinden writes "BBC News is reporting that Israel is now deploying microdrone spy planes. These planes have a wingspan of 13 inches (33 cm), can be carried in a backpack, can be launched by a single soldier, and can even fly through windows. The next step in the drone wars?"
Snap a couple of pictures, turn on a dime then fly right back out?
Fly through the other open window on the other side of the building?
Fly through window, Then EXPLODE... Now That would be cool.
How do they fit a midget in there?!
I'm glad I'm not an Israeli soldier... I'd be worried about over-winding the propeller and breaking the rubber band, or cutting my finger on the thing.
All joking aside, those things would be hot sellers here in the USA.
Ever wonder what's going on behind the ten-foot-high stone walls of that rich dude's house on the corner? Why, just sent your drone flying overhead.
Police departments would dig those things, too, and so would rescue units.
And don't get me started on what the tabloid paparazzi could do with those things.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
They can make this but they still can't make me a decent jetpack? I'm begining to think we will never get our flying shark we were promised
I read this as microcodone spy planes.
I wondered three things:
1) opioid spy planes?
2) a new opioid?
3) where can I get some?
Model planes to me. Had one when I was a kid.
Fit in backpack. Was a little over a foot wide. Flew it into a window once...oh wait......
Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
Preferably they'd eliminate the need for such things by reigning in their own hardline elements demands and work toward peace.
No justice, no peace.
Know justice, know peace.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
One (1) pair binoculars
One (1) pair night-vision goggles
One (1) Field emergency medical kit
One (1) M-4 rifle
Eighty (80) rounds 5.56 x 45mm NATO ammuniton
Ten (10) Meals Ready-to-eat
One (1) Mosquito micro-UAV
Ten (10) 30mm propulsion-grade rubber bands
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
This will most certainly be used in the ongoing struggle between Israel and Palestine. The last thing I want to see is either of those two groups become more efficient killers.
This is a spy plane, however. So maybe it will be used for intelligence to prevent violence. Or perhaps it will be used for intelligence to make waging war more effective.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
*clears glasses* *looks again at the screen* i think thats enough of slashdot for me today...
I assume they mean to say that it can fly through an open window. If it could crash through a closed window, I'd be REALLY impressed.
Anyone with TechTV knows that these things have been around for quite some time (employed by the U.S. army). They say that they don't carry destructive payloads, just cameras and the like. The real question is, did they develop these models themselves or buy them from a U.S. company?
Namaste
Yeah, but can it fly through Linux?
Begun this drone war has!
In Soviet Russia, planes carry YOU!
Yeah, I know. my humour sucks.
You know it makes sense, a little reminder from jointm1k.
At first I read 'Microsoft Spy Planes'.
Thought: gezus, they'll bomb EU next...
Skywalker: "You fought in the drone wars?"
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
will we have 'spider' like cameras that can crawl along the ground and hide under rocks.
Will we have 'hawk' or 'eagle' gliders that attempt to take out these reconaissance gliders?
These look more like personal assassination drones than surveillance equipment. Visions of DUNE come to mind...
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
the remote cockroach that they had here. Of course, it ended up squashed by a shoe, but before that it got critical intel out. Just imagine a battlefield where you can't trust that the spiders and snakes, or arctic hares aren't working for the other guys!
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Check out the Scientific American Frontiers episode on flight: Flying Free (2001)
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1109/index.html
There's a lot of cool stuff related to similar projects.
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
some bored geek designed the microdrones to spy on the hot chics in those apartment complexes and then had to give it up to the military when he was caught.
So what? Lots of spyware can be flown through Windows nowadays.
*rimshot*
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
I just sent one of these over to the Tech Model show. Whoo baby!
I also reply below your current threshold.
NOVA ran a show a few months ago about the development and deployment of unmanned military aircraft. They have some interesting items here.
Ever since the dawn of conflict it hasn't been how many men you put on the battlefield as much as what's in their hand as they go out. Be it the advent of stronger alloys to make better swords, or to have the robots do the more dangerous scouting missions.
This will only escalate exponentially untill perhaps man withdrawels his fragile body from war altogether?
*DrugCheese rants*
Where can I buy this one? A pretty neighbor has just moved in and I really need some technical help. Is there a Amazon.com in Israel? Free Shipping over 25 Israeli dollars?
How long before somebody loads one of these with explosives and turns it into a guided grenade? It could be useful as a weapon against a small target of opportunity that doesn't merit a bomb run or cruise missile strike, as well as keeping the soldiers out of immediate harm's way.
All the drones can fly for an hour while transmitting pictures back to their operators
The wingspan was similar (about 15 inches, if I remember correctly), and could be controlled remotely. A color video camera and microphone on the "plane" would record any needed information.
Another case of information sharing it seems. It's been about 5 years since I did that report, but I'll see if I can dig it up from the archives of my computer for the purposes of this conversation.
-Vendal Thornheart
Released Story:
On display at the Tel Aviv conference were the Birdy and the Spy There mini-drones and two micro-drones, the Mosquito and the Mosquito 1.5. The models were developed by Israel Aircraft Industries' (IAI) engineering division.
The REAL Story:
"Yeah I'll take one of those balsa kits, that motor you showed me, a radio, and some glue. Oh and what sort of paint colors are availble?"
Ruby on Rails Screencast
But, what about noise? It would seem that silent operation would be an important part of these spy planes' operation. However, the last model airplane I saw could be clearly heard for over a mile. If these things are aslo as noisy, they will simply become targets for the local skeet club.
It seems that Vi is better than Emacs.
Where do they done get the little folks to pilot them there things?
--- Ban humanity.
I'll bet they're going to have a lot of fun racing these things.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
The noise from the glass crashing down will give it away in an instant ;-)
Maybe if you think drones are their enemy deploying young children as suicide bombers.
This is what kind of war Israel is facing.
Slashdot Moderation: From positive to terrible in 2 "insightful" posts.
lucky these are Israli planes. If they were made for the US army, they would cost $10,000 a piece, would fly slower, have shorter battery life, and break all the time (order me 5,000)
Now we can have wars where machines kill each other leaving people alone!
The fact that we can spend these research $$$ on finding a cure for AIDS or cancer, alternative energy, cheaper forms of electronic communications etc.. is irrelevant. These machines of war will surely save more lives.
This is so cool I need to go to the bathroom.
Moderate this comment
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Positive: Insightful Interesting Informative Funny
Nothing to see here
Well for one thing the Palestinians aren't exactly in the technological position to use such things. There is a big disparity, technologically and otherwise, in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I still wonder a bit at how much money goes into these things, as well as man hours. I can see their uses as survelliance, but would those resources be better used elsewhere? ... a lot of resources would be better used if people didn't suck and have to fight amongst themselves all of the time, though. So, in that case, whats a little plane?
I'd like to own one, personally, but I just love playing with rockets and planes.
As someone mentioned before, using these devices for rescue personel would be very cool. I think a little robotic snake of somesort would be more efficient in rubble, but for overhead rescues to locate crashes, it would work.
Its a shame people don't come up for this stuff for rescue and other more beneficial things, then converted it to "war" types. But I suppose if you took away the wars, there wouldn't be quite so many people that needed rescued in the first place.
But there'd still be too many.
-- RJ
I guess someone at the Israeli army was playing the mission where you fly the rc chopper into the construction site...
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
Unless there is no concern about these things being clandestine, there is no way these things would be able to penetrate a target without being shot down first. Unless, of course, you want to fly multiple planes into the target zone, sort of like a mini bomb run.
when are they setting up a live web cam?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Hey look! Someone's little plane is buzzing that cleric in the wheelchair. *BOOM*
Hey look! It's another tiny little plane. *BOOM*
Hey look! *BOOM*
(silence except the sounds of bulldozers and Israeli real estate agents)
I much prefer dismembered body parts. Seems that the Palestinians do too. Poisoned needles are just too lame to make a statement with.
For those of you who, like me, are fascinated by these things, check out The UAV forum lotsa neat discussion, information, and links.
Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
- your dreams.
How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?
One of the coolest weapons in Unreal Tournament was called the Redeemer. It was huge - took up half the screen when you were holding it.. When you fired it with the secondary trigger, it launched (like a missle), except you'd see through the camera mounted on the nosecone.. and you could steer it..
:)
My brother (Jon Keegan) wrote an Unreal Tournament level with big open windows, long hallways, and wide corners. I remember there was nothing quite like running through a door, turning the corner, and seeing a huge missle flying toward you inside a hallway.
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
Is this sort of plane small enough to be invisible to current radar?
Currently this isn't an issue since the range of it is so small, but a small stealth bomber dropping a chemical or biological agent could be pretty dangerous.
- JML
Collective?
I think you mean "kibbutz".
When its hot outside and your hemmoroids are even hotter,
just look to the cool relief of Preparation-H to get
you on your way.
Coming to theater near you.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Israel has a lot of pull in Congress. Technologies developed by American companies often have to wait for Israel to commericialize the product before they are allowed to sell it. An example is sub 2 meter photography from space. American companies were prohibited from selling until the Mosad (via a front company called "West Indian Space" (google if your interested) had launched their own competing satillite.
Vote For A Democrat.
Bin Laden certainly would if he could vote in the US
From the picture, it doesn't appear that the drone could have much, if any, payload. But if it does (or a later, slightly larger generation could), does anyone doubt that Israel hasn't already thought using these to carry tear gas or another irritant in order to clear buildings?
Think of the Predator.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
The next step in the drone wars?
I guess you could say the Drone Wars was first followed by then the Clone Wars but George Lucas named it differently.
no shit, sherlock. The pubs are the kids who got Bin Laden pissed off anyway, what with their breaking of promises in Gulf War 1. It would only make sense for him to vote democratic, as the dems actually try to secure peace, instead of making things so much worse for us.
What anti-semite nazi modded me down? Will the little Hitler-baby stand up please?
Why don't you just take a shit on a Minora and wipe your ass with the Star of David, you skinheaded motherfucker!
Being a proud Old European, I can only regret that international campaign donations in the US elections aren't legal for us proles. Fortunately major players like George Soros can tip the scales for the good guys.
Remember that these are a lot more than R/C planes (on the inside). They rely on GPS and fly to given waypoints automatically, then return to the launch position or some other predetermined spot. These micro-UAVS commonly use solid state gyroscopes, plus light weight, minature video cameras and transmitters. Not terribly complicated stuff on its own, but put it together in a light-weight package with a decent range, and it's pretty impressive.
If you have every seen many of these designs, you'll notice that many of them use a flying wing configuration (like the B-2). This allows them to have a smaller overall size. Make the chord length a little larger and use special airfoils, and there you have it.
In the book of the Revelation, (the last book of the new testament) there is a strange prophecy which seems to be an ancient and archaic description of some sort of modern day military flying droid; with a speciality on chemical warfare.
.
If this truely what St John foresaw then this is probably one step closer to the following passages being fulfilled
7The locusts looked like horses armed for battle. They had gold crowns on their heads, and they had human faces. 8Their hair was long like the hair of a woman, and their teeth were like the teeth of a lion. 9They wore armor made of iron, and their wings roared like an army of chariots rushing into battle. 10They had tails that stung like scorpions, with power to torture people. This power was given to them for five months. 11Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon--the Destroyer
I like the little robot up there. Is "Robotics" a new category for Slashdot?
Police departments would dig those things, too, and so would rescue units.
the device is obviously aimed at voyeurs.
I like mature women and midgets. Is that normal?
...shoot a little skeet...
There is a story (probably not true, but still funny) about one of our radio technicians jamming a neighbours RC plane. Said neighbour liked to fly Sunday mornings before church when tech guy was still trying to sleep off hangover. Polite complaints had no effect so tech brings home test gear and finds what channel the RC is on. Then he buys a cheap controller and pumps output through a 75W base station radio. The last the neighbour saw of his plane was it heading for the horizon over the waters of lake michigan.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Three or four years ago, when I worked with the University of Florida's MAV team , we were regularly flying 7 inch planes powered with small IC engines. Last I saw, they were down to a little more than 4 inch electric planes, including video. They need to be piloted, as opposed to the MAVs described in the article, but as I understand it, they're close to integrating GPS/waypoint autonomy on slightly larger planes. They've been throttleable since they went electric, and a good pilot could pretty easily fly through a medium sized window and down a hallway in good conditions (I don't think the planes mentioned could do this on their own either).
First the wall, then the assassination of a 70 years old crippled man on a wheel chair with 3 rockets launched from an unmanned aerial vehicles, with this they have sunk to new unprecedented lows, cowards hiding behind tons of high tech weapons.
Riiight. They killed the leader & founder of a terrorist group that refuses to coexist with Israel under any circumstances. And the rockets were launched from conventional aircraft, not a UAV.
Cowards hiding behind high tech weapons? This is 2004. Swords and shields are passe.
Vote Republican
Man, if that's not OnTopic, what is?
In Soviet Russia, Slashdot comments on you.
As an avid R/C pilot for many years. I don't think using an aircraft with a 13 inch wingspan is going to do much good. These planes are extremely suceptable to wind. I have a 1/2a pilon racer with a 24" wingspan and an .049 engine. It can only be flown when the wind is less than 15 mph. In a place where mountains, hills and thermals abound I doubt their plane will be much use.
Btw the 1/2a racer has been clocked at over 90 mph. These things scream.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
If I install a Fleshlight in a Microdyne spyplane, does that make me a chicken fucker?!!!
but jews suck, why should i vote to protect them?
Am i the only one who read "Microsoft Spy Planes" and was not surprised?
Flying Crocodile R00lz!
Your mind is squeezed by a blast of pain!
you can spy on your neighbors wife, but it's not as good as sleeping with her.
As opposed to what? Strapping it to some poor 10 or 15 year old kid who thinks he's soon going to be having his way with 72 virgins?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
In the new days, you have to push a button.
In the old days, you could see your handywork. Blood and guts. /.
In the new days, you shrug and continue reading
In the old days, you could die on the battlefield.
In the new days, you only have to clean up the dust once in a while in your bunker with meters wide concrete walls.
But I agree with the original poster's sentiment -- at best you're going from hideous to just awful. Hopefully someday all this effort and creativity will be entirely channeled into positive things.
That's a nice thought but I truly believe that war will be a part of humanity for as long as our species exists. I just don't think it's capable for our species to solve every single problem in a rational and nonviolent manner. The problem is that we are animals. We are the most clever animals but we are still just animals. You can see this by examining the structure of the human brain. The most inner part (I forget the technical term) is casually referred to as the "reptile brain" because it is a remenant from our genetic ancestors. This is the part of the brain where anger and aggression come from. We use the outer parts of our brain in order to control these violent emotions but the violence is simply a part of who we are. That will never go away.
While I have hope that our civilization, as a whole, will improve and become more peaceful, wise, and mature with time I think it's just a hopeless fantasy to believe that there will ever be a time where every single human being lives in harmony with those around him or her. And it only take a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. Hopefully things will never get so far out of hand that we have a war involving WMDs but to think that there is going to be some future for us where violence just doesn't happen is crazy, as far as I'm concerned. I agree that it's too bad that we have to devote such an enormous amount of resources to military concerns but to expect our efforts to be "entirely channeled into positive things" is a bit naive, no insult intended.
GMD
watch this
Oh man, you are a retard. I'm not joking.
Cowards hiding behind high tech weapons? This is 2004. Swords and shields are passe.
That is not what I meant by my argument, if you are opponent is so weak and underdeveloped and yet you continue flexing your high-tech weapons and crush people ruthlessly and relentlessly like what is going on these days you are called a coward in my book, if the Palestinians are equally armed we will witness a totally different outcome of this war. Call me a terror supporter or an anti-Semitic I don't care, the real terrorist are the Israelis and the whole world knows that but too afraid to admit it because it is not politically correct, just as they are afraid to admit that feminism is crap, and to admit that there are difference between races (which is not a bad thing btw, every race excels in certain aspects in a complimentary way).
You don't know anything about the beliefs of
1. Democrats
2. Islamic radicals
3. Conservatives,
4. or the majority of the popular (peaceful) Islamic Majority.
I wonder how long before it is hacked to fly thru Linux and Mac os X?
Humans are genetically unfit to govern other living beings... we need intelligent machines with Asimov's laws of robotics to hold humanity in escrow...
I rather hope this is a troll.
Send Dubya back to texas.
Repeal the DMCA!
A culture that sends children to become human bombs, promising them sex with 72 virgins in paradise, a culture that celebrates when thousands of innocent victims are murdered, cannot possibly claim to have moral equivalency with the Israelis.
The Israelis might be harsh in defending their country against groups that essentially have the same goal as Hitler. But they don't celebrate when civilians get killed. They don't send their children to die as suicide bombers. And they have always searched for a peaceful solution with their neighbors, many of whom unfortunately will never accept peace with Israel.
with laser beams on its head?
It's much braver to arm 12 year olds with bombs and send them to kill other peoples' children. Right.
All the drones can fly for an hour...
Their small size allows them to fly through windows and to provide images to military units behind it
The author of this article needs to get back to writing human interest stories.
People who disagree with you are not automatically evil, greedy, or stupid.
Hey, we're talking modern day Israel here. The payload would be Sarin or a similar Israeli home brew.
become illegal. Can't have gun control in this country, but I can see now that the abilty to control model airplanes will be viewed viewed as anti-government and therefore severley restricted. Or it will put you on the watch list...
if you are opponent is so weak and underdeveloped and yet you continue flexing your high-tech weapons and crush people ruthlessly and relentlessly like what is going on these days you are called a coward in my book, if the Palestinians are equally armed we will witness a totally different outcome of this war.
Riiight. The Soviets spent billions arming the Arab nations, and they still got their asses kicked in every war with Israel. I doubt the Palestinians would be different.
Call me a terror supporter or an anti-Semitic
No, I call you an idiot.
the real terrorist are the Israelis and the whole world knows that
Riight. I think you should start with a definition of terrorism, you idiot.
For example, not long ago, Bill Clinton ordered the bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, killing many innocent people. The US later announced that they made a mistake. Was this a terrorist act? I don't think so. The acts of uniformed soldiers carrying out their orders are Acts of War or possibly War Crimes.
If the CIA assisted a Sudanese rebel group in blowing up the factory, that would be a terrorist act.
In case you forgot, the so-called occupied territories becaume occupied during the 1967 war, which was started by the Egyptians blockading an international waterway. That war has yet to end. Actions of the Israeli military are legitimate acts of war (or possibly war crimes). Actions of the Palestinians targeting the Israeli military are legitimate acts of resistance.
Targeting innocent civilians in a shopping mall is an act of terrorism.
I want a flock of swarming drones circling me outside at all times, sending back a panoramic view with highlighted motion to my HMD.
--
make install -not war
Well now, since you linked to one side of the story, let's link to
the other side.
Since 1987, the US congress has annually been approving a foreign aid bill totaling an average of $3 billion to Israel, $1.2 billion in economical aid, and $1.8 billion in military aid.
Gimme that kinda Jack and I could make a model airplane that takes pictures.
Turning Palestine into a military test ground is not worth the price.
Perhaps there will be peace once vapors from the model airplane cement arms race take effect.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
These planes have a wingspan of 13 inches (33 cm)...can be launched by a single soldier
It must suck to be married. You can't even play with toy airplanes anymore.
A few people have pointed out that this thing looks like a model airplane. Thats because it is. The body structure is directly copied from the RC modeling world.
The reason this model airplane technology is seeing millitary applications is because of two technologies.
1) li-poly batterys. Very light and has a high energy density.
2) Brushless motors. These are far and away more efficient than the older technology brushed motors. They also happen to be dead silent in the air - the only noise you can hear comes from the prop.
Electic flight has finally matured in the last two years. Flight times have gone from 5-8 min just a few years ago to todays hour plus flight times (put a couple li-poly packs in parallel and your good to go.
batteries can be had here:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/kokam.htm
off the shelf planes can be bought here:
www.gws.com.tw
www.hobby-lobby.com/
discussion fourums here:
www.rcgroups.com/
There are slightly larger, but similar in concept, planes available in hobby shops. Such as this Firebird II.
Based on my experience flying that, I'm skeptical about a few things:
- Flying conditions: The Firebird is quite a bit larger than that plane, but any winds above 5-10MPH or so make it difficult to control. That little plane would get tossed around even easier.
- Duration: One hour flight time would be excellent, but with something so tiny I'm not sure how they pack that much battery power. My firebird is lucy to get 10 minutes of flying time before a recharge.
- Flying through windows? - That seems unlikely with one of these units. That level of accuracy is very difficult, and at the speeds you need to keep it flying, you would not have much time to maneuver this thing. Also, in the article they describe plotting a destination on a map - like a GPS controlled craft. How the hell would you fly through windows in that scenario.
Anyway, the hobby store variety of these things are a blast.. I highly recommend picking a couple up ( a couple because you're sure to crater it several times when first learning ).
Russians use something like this, too, against Chechen insurgents (calling them "rebels" is fundamentally wrong). Their drone is called "Pchela" it's quite a bit bigger and requires at least two soldiers to launch (from what I've seen on TV).
Here's some info:
A Pchela (remotely piloted reconnaissance drone that provides television surveillance of ground targets) weighs 130 kilograms (loaded), has an operational range of 110 to 150 kilometers, can fly at altitudes ranging from 100 meters to 3 kilometers, and cruises at speeds from 11- to 150 kilometers an hour. Combat-recorded range: 55 kilometers. Its flight endurance is 2 hours (it needs 20 liters of gasoline for this). Its power plant is piston plus two solid rockets takeoff boosters (power at 32hp). Onboard of the Russian drone are a video camera, a still camera, a mapping camera, and a secure radio. It uses a parachute for landing. Pchela is probably equal in capability to many Western UAV in the same class. However, it is a slower, tactical unmanned aerial vehicle than, for example, the Russian the 800-kilometer-per-hour Reis UAV.
More info available at:
http://ufo.psu.ru/eng/dagestan.html
I've seen this "feature" extolled before in reference to fixed-wing drones, and I have the same question now that I had then: Have they ever tried to fly a remote control airplane indoors? Why the hell would anyone ever fly one of these through a window? You can't buzz around near the ceiling in there-- all you can do is crash and lose your fancy plane. Sure, that'd be useful if it were a bomb, but it's a spy plane.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Carefull they might get sued for infringing Microsoft trademarks!
Just waiting for someone to develop the suspensor field.
There was this nice quote I heard once, sorry can't properly attribute it, but was something to the effect of, "just because science can create such a thing doesn't mean we should", and for that matter if we can build it, should we use it? Somehow the USA avoided nuclear war in the past, but we seem far more advanced at creating weapons than avoiding need of them.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Actually, Israel has historically been the leader in the UAV industry, and has been using large ones for a lnog time. The USA has bought a bunch of stuff off Israel i think - for eg, The RQ-5 Hunter (I think). (of course, this is probably indirectly financed by the USA anyway...)
Check out this big list to see who's in the market.
-Chris
These seem pretty tiny and probably cheap to produce. Would a low quality real time cam to a little 3" lcd the soldier had be to difficult? That along with a few bullets, or perhaps darts since they would be lighter and require less reverse thrust to lunch. Even if one plane could only take out 6-10 people you could have 500 soldiers at home base take out the enemy with a flock of these.
I don't believe that the Palestinians' tactic of murdering civilians is ever justified in any circumstance, and in general I find myself to the right of the people I know on this subject; I would call myself "pro-Israel." Nevertheless, the basic fact is that Israel is the occupier, "Palestine" is the occupied. Even Ariel Sharon has acknowledged this. They don't call them "the occupied terroritories" for nothing. I daresay the Israelis would be more than happy to sign a peace treaty right now, considering that they are currently in possession of the land that is in dispute.
Regarding the grandparent post, there's no need for anything as baroque as poison darts. Sheik Ahmed Yassin was killed by Hellfire missiles launched by an Apache. Hellfires are laser-guided, so there was either an IDF soldier on the scene or a remote drone like the one in the article. It's easy to imagine the Apache being replaced by a highflying Predator or other unmanned craft, with target designation being performed by a drone. Gregg Easterbrook blogged about this today.
check this out robot helicopter flys its self and can lanch a little buddy robot rover with video though a window.
This sounds like the beginning of Stephenson's Diamond Age - all those nanotech pieces flying around doing battle had to start somewhere.
Is capable of over 130mph. I like a little wind to slow it down for landing. Remember, these drones are "navigated by clicking waypoints on a laptop" they are autonomous and can no doubt handle more than a little turbulence.
It is odd to read people think this will reduce the number of casualties, especially "collateral damage".
This is not unlike some of the security discussions we've had here. Force people to have 4 passwords, and they'll write them on sticky-notes besides their screen, reducing security. Passwords are _supposed_ to make systems safer, but abuse them and they are counter-productive.
Drone technologies will completely change the strategy of conflict. One month before 9/11, a colleague and I predicted rc planes would be used against the White House. Ok, so we were off. But think about it: if the Israelis can use this, why couldn't the "terrorist" Palestinians? Imagine for a second what an rc plane/helicopter could do with non-conventional means...
Assymetrical warfare is used because one side has no chance at symmetrical -conventional- warfare. As this reinforces "full-spectrum dominance", it only increases the risk of terrorist attack.
I hope such drones are only used for reconnaissance, and not to carry out direct assassinations, causing another escalation.
In the long-term, we will need to make our conflict resolution systems more robust, so they don't degenerate so fast and with such bloody consequences. Another interesting thing to note is as war becomes more capital intensive, we can expect the rise of Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
I wonder if they pay royalties to Spinmaster Toys:
Air Hogs
The Palestinians would just kill the Israelis that are living on Palestinian land, or at least "deport" them back to Israel. You've obviously missed the entire point behind this conflict.
If 800,000 Mexicans built a city just north of the Mexican border, and proclaimed it to be Mexican territory, how would America react? What if they had more tanks and missiles than we did, and responded to our attempts to move them out by blowing up San Antonio and killing our leaders?
The Palestinians are the Israeli equivalent to our Native Americans. Israel is taking whatever it wants from them, and they're just trying to stem the flow of loss.
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
They should save the money like the Palestinians and have the mentally challenged kids blow up their enemy. (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/goto/?getPage =http%3A%2F%2Fapnews%2Emyway%2Ecom%2Farticle%2F200 40324%2FD81GUJ3O0%2Ehtml&return=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2 Edrudgereportarchives%2Ecom%2Fdsp%2Flinks%5Frecap% 2Ehtm)
These would be cooler still if they made a little pod to place my old GI-Joe Soldiers in.
I expected the article to end with "find Sarah Connor"
Just imagine the insane possibilities of putting a mobile WiFi backpack on one of these UAVs, any comment?
Didnt they just afew days ago assasinate some old guy with a helicopter and missiles!? maybe they could use this gadget for dropping laser guided bombs on stray animals :P
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Using military-drones makes the ghost of General Patton cry...
(...or maybe his reincarnation...hmm).
This drone could easily be turned into a remote-controlled bomb (similar to PerfectDark). I do have one serious concern regarding remote-weapons:
In a world where wars are fought with machines, what keeps politicians from easily declaring war?
Remote weapons made war "cleaner".
"Cleaner" makes it easy to get the public to go along with it.
Easy war declarations can lead to more war declarations.
Conflict begets conflict.
Lets home that remote-controlled wars don't lead to StarTrek-ish scenarios where nations fight parodies of wars with artificial weapons.
Making war cleaner will never be as effective as good diplomacy.
Not to mention the real-life Operation Acoustic Kitty.
d'oh i thought this said Microsoft spy planes.
Remote controlled spy planes are nothing new. This one is different because of its size and that it can be deployed by frontline troops rather then by a support unit.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
These things can fly through windows and take pictures? Luckily all they will get is a reflection from my tin foil hat.
And has anyone noticed how much Sheik Yassin looks like Saruman [1] [2]? I knew he was evil and wnated to kill Israeli citizens, but I didn't know he wanted to breed men with orcs!
tumbleweed floats by
So, being born and raised in an area of the country where duck hunting is a major pastime, I can only envison the following:
Isreal Major: Captian, I think that guy has spotted the drone. Evasive action!
Blam!
Major: Damm. Another one.
Guy (to buddy) Man, give me ducks any day of the week. These damm metal bugs are too easy.
Doesn't matter; a flying crocodile could kick its ass anyway.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
There is, technically speaking, no moral or ethical reason why human bombs (AKA suicide bombers) are a Bad Thing[tm]. Remember, we saw an instance of this in WWII with the Japanese Kamikaze. ..and you don't have an issue with the ethics of the Japanese government that sent those kids to crash their airplanes into carriers? Does the word "Nanking" ring a bell?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
see http://www.symetrics.com
This is a paper about a project that was finished a few years ago. It has a color camera and is very quiet because of the electric propulsion. They optimized the design using genetic algorithms, which is how I found out about it.
From the fine gentlemen who brought you "Sealab 2021" and "Space Ghost: Coast to Coast", FLYING SHARK v. FLYING CROCODILE! What more could you want?
$ echo "ceci n'est pas une pipe" | sed -Ee 's/(eci n|pas )//g'
I have been flying electric R/C for several years now. I have had many "little" R/C planes, as well as a few electric 1/4 scale, The best flyer's are the 3 meter sail planes that use screaming fast, high current motors to get them to altitude in a hurry.
The bigger the plane, the easier it is to fly. Wind penetration and control. Big craft with lots of power can get into the wind, and bigger looks slower = easier to fly.
I have flown many many little craft. A couple of real screamers (about 14" span). They go like raped apes, but are almost impossible to control. The learning curve is incredably steep. You can make little craft easier to control, but you gotta slow them down. If you slow them down, wind penetration is terrible.
Put autopilots on them? Hardly. Any excess weight makes everything worse. Need more lift, means more power, means more speed.
I would like to have a couple dozen of them to crash, though, just to see what they fly like...
- God is pretend...
They don't merely "live in a city". Here is one example of Rantissi using human shields. And this photo offers another. Hiding in the crowded apartment block, you mention, is another.
Two words: "collateral damage". The scumbag, they were after, had the option to surrender, but chose to hide in the apartment block thinking, Israelis wouldn't dare to do, what Palestinians wouldn't think twice of doing. He bluffed and they called...
Here, I'll help you out:
One can always make a catchy rhetorical question, like you did, but once you bother to learn the details of the story, you realize, you can't blame Israelies for much -- if you accept their right to live there at all, of course.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The difference between the Israelis attacking Palestinean civilians and the Palestineans attacking Israeli citizens is that the Israelis have a representive governemnt.
Citizens of democracys are responsible for the acts of their governments. The Palestineans as a whole can not be held responsible for the acts of a suicide bomber (no government), but every Israeli of voting age is responsible for the acts of the Israeli military, and therefor a viable target.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
this really isn't anything new, we've been doing it for quite some time, in the Radio Control world,
(fun stuff!) although, it takes slightly more control than just click on a point on a map.just check out http://tinywireless.com and any RC group forum
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Sir, your emotional rant has induced me to inform the public on the falsehood of your statements. While I do not want to change YOUR opinions, I can not allow these OPINIONS to be propagated as FACTS. As follows:
And if they weren't trying to remove israel from the face of the Earth,
If israeli settlers weren't trying to remove palestinians from THEIR land:
Total settler population in the West Bank and Gaza Strip:
1972: 1,500
1983: 29,090
1992: 109,784
2001: 213,672
Total settler population in East Jerusalem:
1972: 6,900
1992: 141,000
2000: 170,400
which is well documented by JEWISH human rights organizations:
The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
settlers, whom even JEWS want to pull out:
Brit Tzedek v'Shalom - Jewish Alliance for Justice and Peace - for the sake of Israel's security, bring the settlers home
settlers, who sometimes aren't even Semites:
(When a delegation of rabbis travelled to Lima to convert a group of South American Indians to Judaism, they added just one condition: come and live with us in Israel. As soon as these new Jews arrived in the country, they were bussed straight to settlements in the disputed territories. )
* * * * * * *
they would be welcome to participate in the economic, social, and political makeup of the society at large...
such a change of policy is highly questionable. the opposite is taking place right now:
While the settlers benefit from an unlimited quantity of running water - including filling swimming pools and watering lawns, the Palestinian towns and villages suffer a severe shortage of running water, even for drinking and bathing.
Ever heard of Nuremberg Laws? Israeli Parliament votes to block Palestinians who marry Israelis from becoming Israeli citizens or residents,[...] supporters of bill call it necessary bulwark against infiltration by terrorists, as well as way to preserve Israel's Jewish majority; opponents call it racist measure
Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions - Israel Destroys Palestinian Infrastructure
* * * * * * *
Can't embrace my brother if he chooses to kill me and my people to get his political message across...
let us compare who is killing whom:
In the Palestinian terrorist attacks, about 920 Israelis were killed (up to 2.1.2004), and 4,400 were wounded (source: Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs). [...]
Following statistics of the Palestine Red Crescent Society 2,417 Palestinians were killed and 22,233 were wounded from September 29, 2000, to August 1, 2003, due to the Israeli military operations.
* * * * * * *
Better to contain and kill the MF'ers...
in the ghetto?
* * * * * * *
(In regard to removing Israel from the face of the earth, that's their STATED GOAL my friends. TAUGHT to SCHOOL CHILDREN!)
i can not verify what is beeing taught in schools, because I have never been there. have you? OTOH i can tell for sure what the Israeli public is discussing.
well, Israel is considering removing of all Palestinians into Jordan. In other countries this is called ETHNIC CLEANSING.
( King Abdullah has rejected the idea of permanently settling Palestinians outside their
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None of your points, some legit, others just hand-waving, negate anything I stated.
you claim that Palestinians only want to remove Israel. if they did not, Israel would embrace them with open arms.
i show and document that the opposite is true. Israel wants to remove the Palestinians from their land and expand it's borders. it set up settlements in the W.Bank, which needed military protection, so occupation was justified. i showed you the hard numbers as proof. Israel wants no more ethnic Arabs inside it's borders, because that would mean the end of a Jewish national state.
tell me which points you do not understand.
And be careful when you try to justify strapping bombs on 12 year old boys to go kill innocents...
i did not refer to any 12 year olds. that is a straw man argument.
You just might come out looking like an ass. Your style of argument certainly does that for you.
you calling me an ass does not make me one. again, vulgarity.
Let me summerize my point: While there is plently of guilt on both sides of the issue (as I stated originally), nothing can legitimize Palestinian tactics of terrorism.
one man's terrorist is the other man's national insurgent or freedom fighter. the Palestinians say that massive civilian casualties on their side and the occupation are reason enough for a mortal response. in fact, Israel is saying the same.
the circle goes like this: the IDF moves into a village, the Palestinians throw stones, the IDF shoots them, they respond with human bombs, the IDF responds with rocket attacks, they respond with bombs again,
there are different types of terrorism, and there is also state terror. in this case terrorism (human bombings) is a response to state terror (occupation and airplane bombing).
Palestinian leaders are exploiting misguided emotions of the ignorant Palestinian masses. Are the Palestinian people oppressed? I'd say yes.
it has nothing to do with their leaders. people usually choose as leaders those who they think share their beliefs and best represent them. maybe they think that because of Israel's policy they have no normal future:
But can you really justify their actions?
but can you justify the following:
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I have. I researched it. I documented it in the post above for you to check it, too.
As for the land: It's now their friggen land. Spoils of war. Of course it's going to be used. Duh! No surprise there. If anything, it highlights the Palestinian stupidity for passing up the many chances they had to get their land back.
* no, it is not their friggin land. wars of annexation are illegal. resettlement by an occupying power of its own civilians on territory under its military control is illegal under The Fourth Geneva Convention on Rules of War, 1949
* i showed you how the settler population grew from almost none to 200.000.
* the Palestinians were never offered a fair deal. every next deal was worse then the last.
Until Palestinians make an effort to have peace, stop trying to murder and kill ALL FRIGGEN JEWS, Palestinians are not going to get their land back. Opps. I let some facts out. Sorry.
* you did not let any facts out. you only justified illegal actions with the might of force. that is not a fact. it is an opinion.
* yes, here we have this IDIOTIC demand again. "be nice and MAYBE we will give you a little of your land back. but not the good agricultural land, no , this precious land is ours. you can get some of the desert! "
* i have a proposal, since there is no Israeli stupidity , as opposed to Palestinian stupidity, maybe Israel makes the first move and removes ALL settlements from the West Bank! if the Palestinians keep on trying to kill ALL JEWS ( which they seem to be very ineffective at trying, as opposed to Israel ) after that, Israel could easily go back.
Not really considering its been on the table for ever, in exchange for peace. But, sadly, the Palestinians would rather kill all jews than get their land back.
* exactly the opposite is true. all the Palestinians want is simply their land back.
When you bother to learn some more facts, you'll soon understand that the land is a poor excuse that ignorant people latch on to.
* if YOU bothered to learn some facts, you would understand how ignorant you really are. but you will never try.
* the land is not an excuse, it is a REAL issue. but you prefer to ignore that, because it would be contrary to your personal belief that the Palestinians are inherently evil.
Simple fact is, even if the land was not in contention, the Palestinians would actively be working to mass murder jews.
* that is not a fact, it is your racist accusation. it is just as racist, as claiming that "Jews want to kill the Aryan race".
* your approach can never lead to peace, because you assume the EVILNESS of the opposite side as a fact which cannot be changed
Go learn about the last two, three or four peace settlements put on the table by Israel.
Former President Jimmy Carter wrote [Sharon's policies] "have all been orchestrated to accomplish his ultimate goals: to establish Israeli settlements as widely as possible throughout occupied territories and to deny Palestinians a cohesive political existence."
you do not have to believe me, believe the rightous Jews:
look at the maps of those generous offers
Each time, btw, the Palestinian response was, no, was can't do that until all jews in Israel are dead. What pigs.
* do you actually r
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Alright, a decent question! You're presumption of what would happen is flawed, however. I'm not saying they would "embrace them with open arms" (remember?), but the violence coming from Israel would cease. Ghettos? The Palestinians have demonstrated that the closer they allow them to be, the more Israelis DIE! That's a pretty strong motovation to put as much distance as they can between them and those that would kill them! If they stop the violence, Israel would stop the violence. Then you could figure out how to proceed. The Palestians don't want to end the violence. They want to eliminate Israel from the face of the planet. That position will lead to their destruction and perhaps the destruction of many more peoples. Sad but true.
;) Thanks, it's been fun.
the following may seem to be naive, but i have heard the following explanation. in arab countries in is common to make a fuzz about an issue and then settle for the modest solution. like haggling in the bazar. the merchants make horrenduously high demands, but settles for the buyers proposition. the "destroy Israel" thing may be a posture. it is a ralling call, not a long term goal.
in fact, the Pals have been very ineffective at causing REAL damage (unlike al-Kaida, which really wants to maximize damage). the PLO is not a religious/ideological organization. it is a national organization. bin Laden does not care how many Saudis die because of his actions. he is an outlaw, and has no homeland, no nationals to care about. the Pals have families in place, which would be open to an indiscriminate blowback, if they were to try a really massive attack on Tel Aviv. (chemical/biological/nuclear)
As for how to enjoy peace in the Middle east (which I believe is the essence of your question,) I don't know. The Palestians must give up violence. The Israelis must also commit to peace as well. As for what I believe will happen, I believe the Palestinian people will be largely destroyed. And that is a shameful crime. A crime with blood on many hands, Palestinian and Israeli alike...
I AGREE that this is the most possible outcome. i have no illusions on the difference of power.
Perhaps a multinational force to keep the peace? Then what? Arafat doesn't want to share.
Nope, I don't have the answer either. Better than I have tried and failed.
agreed. it is difficult to negotiate with a party that can not control it's own militants. Arafat can not control Hamas. OTOH, every attack on Hamas takes more authority away from Arafat. To hold it, he has to take a more radical posture. he can not arrest Hamas (which are his competitors for people's minds), because he would be labelled national traitor / colaborator.
And I like how you said we like sarcasm, implying I am alone in my other positions.
this is a misunderstanding. i did not imply that. actuall it was replying sarcasm on my part.
Very good underhanded dishonest posturing! If you can't attack your opponent's argument, attack your opponent! (Yes, I did it too, but at least I labled it as a joke...)
the trees/Volvo thing was a joke, not a personal attack.
OK, that's all you'll get from me on this thread. I really didn't want to get into it to begin with. I really didn't want to come off as a political provocateur. I know this issue is a hot button... But you put up so much effort!
i think we managed to carve out some common ground.
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