First, merging kde-base doesn't pull in 1500 dependencies. Second, it can be controlled via/etc/make.conf. There exists an ncurses UI to allow you to select the USE flags you wish to have (even describes what they are for!). It is called ufed (use flags editor). For the record, on my system, it will pull in 6 files, total (4 updates, 1 new, 1 new in a new slot).
Speaking of which, being portage is fairly similar, you'd have to do the *same* thing in FreeBSD (use your "centralized configurator" to tell the system what you want, and what you don't, and then wait for it all to install.)
Really, you are going to have to do lots better than the below if you want to sound reasonably intelligent in the future...
It is your choice to wish a GUI. Either way, you get a file updated that remembers your choices. I happen to hate most GUI's. I'd rather "emerge -pv (package)", see what build options it supports/shows, then edit package.use to reflect what I want.
So if you emerge kde-base and it pulls in 1500 dependencies, and you decide you don't want some of them, you have to sit down in advance and plan out what to use and not to use so that it all works out OK. That's nothing at all like FreeBSD. He was right and you're wrong. And FreeBSD also lets you configure everything centrally if you really want to which isn't surprising since Gentoo is an indirect copy of most of it.
If you are dual booting, you more than likely already have multiple partitions (or more than one drive). What I've done in the past is create a Fat32 partition (of some size, large enough to store "common" data), then configure each application to look in that space. I did it for some time, before I found myself booting to linux less and less (because of the pain of switching to end up only browsing web pages and writing simple documents -- both of which I could do in Windows with the same software (OO.org and Firefox).
Moving back and forth sucks because of bookmarks and all that other fun stuff.
Not quite, as far as the "pot, meet kettle" comment -- I actually looked everything up. It isn't my job to do your work for you, so I gave up. Point remains, I was correct, and you weren't. Portage provides the functionality you wished.
Were I in a flaming mood, this is where I'd dismiss you as a hypocrite and walk away. You're just full of invalid information today. I don't think "hypocrite" means what you seem to thin it means. I provided you exactly the information you wanted, which proved your original statement incorrect. In addition to looking up information on portage, you also need to pull up your favorite dictionary and look up the word "hypocrite". Now, had I not have actually gone and looked up the information you wanted (which I clearly did), I could see you calling me such for not looking the info up as I had suggested you to do.
By all means, keep posting. You are providing a friend and I quite a bit of amusement...
You are still not in the right thought process -- Gentoo isn't about "setting defaults". It's about getting your hands somewhat dirty and configuring the system how YOU want it. Nearly everything I can think of, in Gentoo, has a *.conf.example" file that you could remove the ".example" from and use with no changes. Would you want to do something like that? Probably not. If you do, then Gentoo simply isn't for you.
Wondering why Gentoo doesn't set "defaults" for the user is just wasted time. The distribution isn't meant for such things. That's why Mandriva, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc exist.
One such reason having been mentioned by another poster (the machine might be a "build machine", so you wouldn't really want everything built for a dual processor, dual core Opteron when you are building for another processor type).
But as far as I know, it doesn't. Can you ask it for a list of all USE flags that will get involved in recursive compilation before you start, or get it to prompt you as you go? Because from what I saw, if you didn't know that mpg123 was going to get installed as a deep dependency, you'd never know that you needed to configure for it before you started. FreeBSD won't prompt you up-front, either, but at least it can ask you at each new step in the process. So, instead of doing a little research, or asking at forums.gentoo.org, you just state it doesn't?
Well, as far as I know, none of the BSD's support what you are wanting. That makes my statement correct, right? What? It doesn't? Hmm..
-a asks before it performs an action -D "This flag forces emerge to consider the entire dependency tree of packages, instead of checking only the immediat dependencies of the packages." -p "pretends" to do the emerge; basically it shows you a list of what will be installed
There are MANY more options, however, I believe those three do what you want. There is one more (-v, I think), that shows which USE flags will be applied to each package listed when you use "emerge -p", however, my cable connection at home just reset while I was looking up the command lines, so I'm out of luck. There is lots of portage information available on either gentoo-wiki.com or gentoo.org.
However, in the process, don't put yourself out or anything... It's OK to make yourself look like a total tool, talking about things when you have no clue...
(Dons asbestos underpants for the upcoming troll/flamebait mods.....)
I don't know why the message you replied to was modded as a troll, but, if you are managing production servers, *any* software you are wanting to deploy should be tested off-line (in a test instance, on a testing server, whatever). If you are putting software on a production server that you/your team haven't verified works as you expect it to (whether it is marked/marketed as stable or not), you are just looking for trouble. Sure, most of the time you will be fine, but it only takes one "expat update" situation to make a lot of people angry with you (in my case, 3000-ish students, and a few hundred faculty).
I agree with you, however the expat update was marked stable. I personally didn't have any issues with it, just emerged it, reemerged gettext & curl, emerge -avuDn world then revdep-rebuild -av. I didn't need any special instructions, just the knowledge of using Gentoo for a few years. Again, someone managing Gentoo servers in a production environment should 1) have the know how to fix that minor issue & 2) not upgrade blindly without knowing what they are upgrading. Broken dependencies happen & they are usually trivial to fix.
It is your choice to wish a GUI. Either way, you get a file updated that remembers your choices. I happen to hate most GUI's. I'd rather "emerge -pv (package)", see what build options it supports/shows, then edit package.use to reflect what I want.
Because you don't like the way Gentoo works (when it has the same facilities, minus the GUI) isn't a good reason to go around implying/saying it doesn't support the feature at all. That was all I was trying to say.
...as opposed to FreeBSD that pops up a curses-based GUI for each new package that it installs that has compile-time options, and that automatically remembers your choices.
There are a great many reasons why "linux isn't liked by many, many people", but the build process in what I consider a niche (I currently use it!) distribution, isn't going to be high on the list.
There are many reasons why you would not want the CPU type automatically set; One such reason having been mentioned by another poster (the machine might be a "build machine", so you wouldn't really want everything built for a dual processor, dual core Opteron when you are building for another processor type). It would be nice, now that some folks are putting together a GUI installer for Gentoo, if they added that functionality, though.
You are still failing to understand the build process for Gentoo, though. If I type 'emerge (package', I am never asked any questions. The build options needed are pulled from/etc/make.conf and files from/etc/portage. If the files aren't filled out properly (there is very little needed to be set in/etc/make.conf, and the files in/etc/portage are 100% optional), the build may fail, but you won't be asked any questions in the way you are mentioning.
To answer your last question, probably not, but I'll counter by telling you that you are worrying about the wrong thing. Anyone wanting to try linux can try Ubuntu or Knoppix. Virtually everything is guessed for them, very few questions asked, many pieces of hardware are detected automatically (and properly, even!), and setup/configured for them. If someone is gung-ho about trying linux, and they *really* want to try Gentoo, then they just need to be prepared to do some things manually (like editing three lines in their make.conf). If they decide they don't want to, then they need to reexamine their priorities.
Ok, so my question is:
Why, if this information is available, doesn't the "emerge" pull that info in instead of forcing the user to do it?
Seriously, this is Why Linux is not liked by many, many people. (I really want to get off Windows!)
In the above scenario, a person will be asked a lot of questions unless they put in a "magic" configuration that is readily available by parsing the output of a simple command. Why even ask the user the questions unless the parse of said command fails to return the proper CPU? Am I the only one thinking this?
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand that the installed application that is installed is still perfectly usable, with an update compiling in the background.
Gentoo however is too much.
Portage has both global and per-package USE options, as well.
Global settings go in/etc/make.conf, per-package settings in/etc/portage/* (there are several files in there, depending on what you wish to accomplish).
Don't want X at all? USE="-X" in/etc/make.conf. Don't want perl to install mpg123? Set the package up in/etc/portage/package.use.
All of this is rather well documented... I certainly understand the desire to run an all binary distro with a good package manager, though..:) You really don't have to go around spreading misinformation about Gentoo, though.
But beyond that, configuration options for a port are store with that port and not globally, so you don't have to look through a list of every USE flag possible on your system and try to guess which might come into play based on what portage might decide to install. I much prefer it asking me for build options the first time I install a new port and then remembering those settings until new ones come available. I don't have to remember that "installing Perl might eventually bring in mpg123 as a dependency, so be sure to set 'MPG123_DONT_USE_KDE=YES' before you being the build."
I normally don't bother to reply to AC's, however, I felt this one warranted one:
If you are installing untested software (regardless of distribution) on your production servers, you deserve everything you get.
Except when a rogue ebuild borks your system like... expat recently. Then you spend days slamming rocks together. Yes you, veteran Linux user.
Tells you *everything* you want to know (possibly even MORE than you wanted to know).
I doubt it, Windows seems to know what type of CPU I have when I go to 'my computer'. When I was using my AMD system I knew that it was a K6 processor type, and I downloaded the appropriate kernel/binaries for it though, surely it's not that difficult to do a bit of googling to find out what processor you have?
Yes, but they aren't going to be doing so on slashdot...
The commission said there were two areas, the glovebox and an old elevator shaft, where the solution potentially could have collected in such a way to cause an uncontrolled nuclear reaction. I am not a physicist, but I don't think that packing enriched uranium into a glovebox could cause a nuclear reaction. With the elevator shaft -- are they imagining something crushing the uranium under great pressure? Is that enough? This sounds very unlikely to me. Nuclear material isn't "explosive" in the typical sense. Can someone qualified chime-in on this?
I was using the OEM cooler that came with my x2 5000+, until the fan died. Then I went out and purchased a CoolerMaster OEM style HSF to replace it (only difference was it had an 80mm fan installed instead of the 60 the OEM came with). It was $18 from a local computer store.
Keeps the CPU somewhere in the 30-45C range, and can barely be heard (the rest of the fans (all two of them!) are 120mm, and quite quiet. There is a variable speed 120mm fan in my PS as well (Thermaltake Modular 500w).
I think people who go out and buy gigantic, noisy-assed, obnoxious HSF's are just wasting their money.
But who does actually use the boxed coolers? Well, maybe those who run semperons or similar but I do hardly believe that those who are buying that kind of processor will use the boxed cooler.
Bush (and some in his administration) has created such a mess that we will be cleaning it up for some time. You will be hearing complaints for a good while after he is gone, I'm sure of it.
Hell, people are still complaining about Clinton's BJ. How long has he been out of office now?
Yeah...
I'm just looking forward to the next election simply because once Bush is out, I no longer have to hear about people constantly complaining about him. I'm starting not to care who wins, I just don't trust Hillary one bit. I can see it in her eyes and her expressions. I didn't get a good feeling about her even during the 1992 elections.
Speaking of which, you'd think that with a mammoth deficit and massive social inequities, America could find better uses for it resources. There are many of us US'ians that think so, too. Unfortunatly, we are outnumbered.
To be honest I use the multitouch trackpad on my Macbookpro all of the time. Two finger tap for right click, two finger drag for scrolling with the usual single finger tap for left click and single finger drag for normal drag. Multitouch in a small sense is something that I miss when I go to another laptop because I instinctively two finger tap trackpads to try to right click. No need to scroll in a special part of the track pad, no need to press a special part for left and right click. Just the gesture anywhere on the trackpad. Thats multitouch for me in action and working. I do the same thing in KDE 3.5.7, but I have my two-finger-tap set for a middle click. I use the bottom and right side of the trackpad for scrolling.
Well, my point was your original comment was completely inapplicable to the situation you were commenting on. He has accepted no TOS. He is not using "someone ELSE's system". Microsoft has agreed to provide email service in exchange for showing and selling lots of advertising. As such the customer (who is making them money) has some reasonable level of service to be expected from a service provider (ad supported or otherwise).
You can block whoever you like on your domain as long as you don't have a customer who has a reasonable expectation of deliver of services.
Thank you for playing though, your straw man was crunchy. You still fail it. You must have one thick skull. It is MS's sole decision as to whether they are going to allow email to pass into their system from a specific person. This is in the TOS when you sign up. You are using a service provided to yoy by a company, at no charge for you. They, in fact, do deliver emails to their "customers". The fact that one particular email gets blocked doesn't mean they magically no longer offer "email service".
Talk about straw men. I think all the crow are picking yours apart.
The "individuals" to whom he evangalizes his services include residents and natives of oppressive nations, as well as students and other minors. It's generally safe to assume that colleges and universities don't filter web browsing traffic, and if they do, there's a problem. Unfortunately, minors do not have full legal standing until they are 18. That's why they're called "minors". I agree that, yes, some are mature enough to warrant receiving full legal status earlier, and many more are still not ready at 18. But 18 was the age chosen. Until that time, they are not (usually) legally responsible for their actions; their parents or guardians are. I'd have no problem with the "service" he provides, if it were advertised at residents/natives of oppressive nations. The fact that Bennett doesn't seem to understand that his advertising to children is WRONG because of all the reasons you listed (and probably more) is what makes me so angry when I see any of his babbling. There was a time when I thought teenagers should be treated as adults, able to make many of their own decisions (such as being able to look at porn on the internet). Care to guess how old I was at the time?
What I did at my previous job was to sign up onto his circumventer list (under several different email addresses). As he emailed the new circumventers, I'd add them to my "stupidcensorship" list in squidGuard, then restart the daemon.
The reason I mention I signed up to his list under different email addresses is because I decided, one day, to start emailing him, asking him why he was targeting this advertisement at children (specifically children in schools). The short version of the story is that he got upset with me and removed that account from his list. Apparently, in Bennett's eyes, parents (and the schools they entrust to take care of their kids during the day) don't deserve the right to decide whether their children are behind a filter or not. His main beef is with the commercial filters, however, and I can see his point (as far as how ineffective they can be), but that still doesn't give him the right to override what the parents decide.
Bennett is a sniveling, pathetic, crybaby. He deserves all the negative happenings in his life that he gets, in my opinion.
He's talking about someone who DOESN'T use Hotmail who is trying to send out a newsletter that Hotmail then blocks (without that person ever having signed/clicked an ToS to send an email TO an email service) that newsletter and comes back with the fact that you need to pay for play to get it delivered.
So YES, you did miss the point. You fail it too, jackass.
It doesn't matter what Bennett is using for email service. If the subscribers of Bennett's "newsletter" aren't receiving the emails for it, and Hotmail isn't going to work with Bennett (I wouldn't either, if I were in their shoes), then they need to use a different service. As was mentioned previously (by someone who ALSO gets it), Hotmail (and, thusly, Microsoft) are not the only email providers in the game. There are probably HUNDREDS (at the very least, dozens) of other services (most of which are FAR better than MS's offering, in my biased opinion) that could be used to receive said email.
If Bennett doesn't like his emails not being delivered, he can either pay the fee MS wants, or he can go cry in his milk. This may be America, Home of the Free, but that doesn't mean that MS should be forced to allow Bennett's emails into a service THEY own, operate, and fund.
What if I decided to block all emails from Bennett? Should he be able to throw the same bitch-fit he's throwing here, and have it matter one bit? No. It's my email service. I'll configure it how I see fit.
No, I think YOU (and the jackass that modded my original post as flamebait) missed the point. You are using someone ELSES system, at no cost to you. You have aggreed to their terms of service in order to do so. That you didn't read the TOS, to see if there WAS a possibility of missing emails because a company you wish to receive emails from is being blocked for not paying a fee to the provider, is not relevant to this issue. It's your fault, not the company you are getting FREE service from. It is their network, their computers, and their software. They can damn-well do whatever they want with it. If enough people leave the service because of the actions OF the service, the service will either change or go away. It really is that simple.
As I said in my previous post, the company that is providing you with FREE email (for which you had to agree to a TOS) is in NO WAY required to actually make sure every piece of email gets to you. If you want that kind of service, get it in writing (or roll your own fucking email service).
I really am ashamed to see how the current generation is thinking more and more that they just DESERVE whatever they want, and expect it to be handed to them for free.
I very much believe the old saying, "You get what you pay for" really applies here.
why, yes, I think you did.
Let us say you have a business, and as part of that business, you send emails to your customers that sign up for it. Not spam, this is information your customers want from you.
Some of your customers use hotmail. Not hotmail wants to charge YOU 1400 dollars to get through there system. That's a problem. It's extortion, it's being a bad internet neighbor, and it breaks the basic premise of email;which may be ok, If when someone signs up for the free email gets clear notification that someone might have to pay 1400 dollars to get an email to them.
They no it's wrong and thats why they try to hide this information from everybody but the person the want to extort.
Slashdot Mirror
For the record, using "emerge -pDve kdebase", it shows 174 packages. That's a far cry from 1500...
Speaking of which, being portage is fairly similar, you'd have to do the *same* thing in FreeBSD (use your "centralized configurator" to tell the system what you want, and what you don't, and then wait for it all to install.)
Really, you are going to have to do lots better than the below if you want to sound reasonably intelligent in the future...
It is your choice to wish a GUI. Either way, you get a file updated that remembers your choices. I happen to hate most GUI's. I'd rather "emerge -pv (package)", see what build options it supports/shows, then edit package.use to reflect what I want.
So if you emerge kde-base and it pulls in 1500 dependencies, and you decide you don't want some of them, you have to sit down in advance and plan out what to use and not to use so that it all works out OK. That's nothing at all like FreeBSD. He was right and you're wrong. And FreeBSD also lets you configure everything centrally if you really want to which isn't surprising since Gentoo is an indirect copy of most of it.
By all means, keep posting. You are providing a friend and I quite a bit of amusement...
Wondering why Gentoo doesn't set "defaults" for the user is just wasted time. The distribution isn't meant for such things. That's why Mandriva, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc exist.
I questioned this thought process further in this thread: http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=276679&
I was simply questioning the thought behind not setting defaults (as I state in the link) as opposed to questioning the process.
Well, as far as I know, none of the BSD's support what you are wanting. That makes my statement correct, right? What? It doesn't? Hmm..
-a asks before it performs an action
-D "This flag forces emerge to consider the entire dependency tree of packages, instead of checking only the immediat dependencies of the packages."
-p "pretends" to do the emerge; basically it shows you a list of what will be installed
There are MANY more options, however, I believe those three do what you want. There is one more (-v, I think), that shows which USE flags will be applied to each package listed when you use "emerge -p", however, my cable connection at home just reset while I was looking up the command lines, so I'm out of luck. There is lots of portage information available on either gentoo-wiki.com or gentoo.org.
However, in the process, don't put yourself out or anything... It's OK to make yourself look like a total tool, talking about things when you have no clue...
(Dons asbestos underpants for the upcoming troll/flamebait mods.....)
Because you don't like the way Gentoo works (when it has the same facilities, minus the GUI) isn't a good reason to go around implying/saying it doesn't support the feature at all. That was all I was trying to say.
...as opposed to FreeBSD that pops up a curses-based GUI for each new package that it installs that has compile-time options, and that automatically remembers your choices.There are many reasons why you would not want the CPU type automatically set; One such reason having been mentioned by another poster (the machine might be a "build machine", so you wouldn't really want everything built for a dual processor, dual core Opteron when you are building for another processor type). It would be nice, now that some folks are putting together a GUI installer for Gentoo, if they added that functionality, though.
You are still failing to understand the build process for Gentoo, though. If I type 'emerge (package', I am never asked any questions. The build options needed are pulled from
To answer your last question, probably not, but I'll counter by telling you that you are worrying about the wrong thing. Anyone wanting to try linux can try Ubuntu or Knoppix. Virtually everything is guessed for them, very few questions asked, many pieces of hardware are detected automatically (and properly, even!), and setup/configured for them. If someone is gung-ho about trying linux, and they *really* want to try Gentoo, then they just need to be prepared to do some things manually (like editing three lines in their make.conf). If they decide they don't want to, then they need to reexamine their priorities. Ok, so my question is:
Why, if this information is available, doesn't the "emerge" pull that info in instead of forcing the user to do it?
Seriously, this is Why Linux is not liked by many, many people. (I really want to get off Windows!)
In the above scenario, a person will be asked a lot of questions unless they put in a "magic" configuration that is readily available by parsing the output of a simple command. Why even ask the user the questions unless the parse of said command fails to return the proper CPU? Am I the only one thinking this?
Global settings go in
Don't want X at all? USE="-X" in
All of this is rather well documented... I certainly understand the desire to run an all binary distro with a good package manager, though..
If you are installing untested software (regardless of distribution) on your production servers, you deserve everything you get. Except when a rogue ebuild borks your system like
Tells you *everything* you want to know (possibly even MORE than you wanted to know). I doubt it, Windows seems to know what type of CPU I have when I go to 'my computer'. When I was using my AMD system I knew that it was a K6 processor type, and I downloaded the appropriate kernel/binaries for it though, surely it's not that difficult to do a bit of googling to find out what processor you have?
Keeps the CPU somewhere in the 30-45C range, and can barely be heard (the rest of the fans (all two of them!) are 120mm, and quite quiet. There is a variable speed 120mm fan in my PS as well (Thermaltake Modular 500w).
I think people who go out and buy gigantic, noisy-assed, obnoxious HSF's are just wasting their money. But who does actually use the boxed coolers? Well, maybe those who run semperons or similar but I do hardly believe that those who are buying that kind of processor will use the boxed cooler.
Bush (and some in his administration) has created such a mess that we will be cleaning it up for some time. You will be hearing complaints for a good while after he is gone, I'm sure of it.
Hell, people are still complaining about Clinton's BJ. How long has he been out of office now?
Yeah... I'm just looking forward to the next election simply because once Bush is out, I no longer have to hear about people constantly complaining about him. I'm starting not to care who wins, I just don't trust Hillary one bit. I can see it in her eyes and her expressions. I didn't get a good feeling about her even during the 1992 elections.
I personally thank my maker that the US uses this before their enemies do. Is that "Do unto others before they do unto you"?
Funny, that's not how *I* remember "The Golden Rule".
How about three feet?Yeah, right...only if you're lucky enough to have been born with three hands.
(I'll give 'ya a few minutes for that one to hit 'ya...)
You can block whoever you like on your domain as long as you don't have a customer who has a reasonable expectation of deliver of services.
Thank you for playing though, your straw man was crunchy. You still fail it. You must have one thick skull. It is MS's sole decision as to whether they are going to allow email to pass into their system from a specific person. This is in the TOS when you sign up. You are using a service provided to yoy by a company, at no charge for you. They, in fact, do deliver emails to their "customers". The fact that one particular email gets blocked doesn't mean they magically no longer offer "email service".
Talk about straw men. I think all the crow are picking yours apart.
What I did at my previous job was to sign up onto his circumventer list (under several different email addresses). As he emailed the new circumventers, I'd add them to my "stupidcensorship" list in squidGuard, then restart the daemon.
The reason I mention I signed up to his list under different email addresses is because I decided, one day, to start emailing him, asking him why he was targeting this advertisement at children (specifically children in schools). The short version of the story is that he got upset with me and removed that account from his list. Apparently, in Bennett's eyes, parents (and the schools they entrust to take care of their kids during the day) don't deserve the right to decide whether their children are behind a filter or not. His main beef is with the commercial filters, however, and I can see his point (as far as how ineffective they can be), but that still doesn't give him the right to override what the parents decide.
Bennett is a sniveling, pathetic, crybaby. He deserves all the negative happenings in his life that he gets, in my opinion.
He's talking about someone who DOESN'T use Hotmail who is trying to send out a newsletter that Hotmail then blocks (without that person ever having signed/clicked an ToS to send an email TO an email service) that newsletter and comes back with the fact that you need to pay for play to get it delivered.
So YES, you did miss the point. You fail it too, jackass.
It doesn't matter what Bennett is using for email service. If the subscribers of Bennett's "newsletter" aren't receiving the emails for it, and Hotmail isn't going to work with Bennett (I wouldn't either, if I were in their shoes), then they need to use a different service. As was mentioned previously (by someone who ALSO gets it), Hotmail (and, thusly, Microsoft) are not the only email providers in the game. There are probably HUNDREDS (at the very least, dozens) of other services (most of which are FAR better than MS's offering, in my biased opinion) that could be used to receive said email.
If Bennett doesn't like his emails not being delivered, he can either pay the fee MS wants, or he can go cry in his milk. This may be America, Home of the Free, but that doesn't mean that MS should be forced to allow Bennett's emails into a service THEY own, operate, and fund.
What if I decided to block all emails from Bennett? Should he be able to throw the same bitch-fit he's throwing here, and have it matter one bit? No. It's my email service. I'll configure it how I see fit.
Get a clue.
As I said in my previous post, the company that is providing you with FREE email (for which you had to agree to a TOS) is in NO WAY required to actually make sure every piece of email gets to you. If you want that kind of service, get it in writing (or roll your own fucking email service).
I really am ashamed to see how the current generation is thinking more and more that they just DESERVE whatever they want, and expect it to be handed to them for free.
I very much believe the old saying, "You get what you pay for" really applies here. why, yes, I think you did.
Let us say you have a business, and as part of that business, you send emails to your customers that sign up for it. Not spam, this is information your customers want from you.
Some of your customers use hotmail. Not hotmail wants to charge YOU 1400 dollars to get through there system. That's a problem. It's extortion, it's being a bad internet neighbor, and it breaks the basic premise of email;which may be ok, If when someone signs up for the free email gets clear notification that someone might have to pay 1400 dollars to get an email to them.
They no it's wrong and thats why they try to hide this information from everybody but the person the want to extort.