Juvinile adults, but adults nonetheless. It didn't bother to make the heroine invincible, it didn't strap tight bikinis onto the women because they didn't want to show nudity(far more juvinile than nudity, IMHO), it didn't dummy down the plot(what there was of a plot, mind you) so it was immediately understandable to the kiddies. Sure, it's juvinile at face value, but the fact that they went out and respected thier audience enough to actually do what they wanted to says a lot.
american cartoons bend the laws of physics with wild abandon
Forgive me, I was thinking more about pseudo-drama, like you'll see if you turn on the TV and start flipping channels until you see a cartoon. Looney Tunes(was it tunes?) are in a class all their own.
I had been thinking about a very specific instance in anime vs. a very specific instance in other animation. Keep in mind that it's been a long time since I've seen either(The video store got rid of all their anime inventory...)
Pulsating eyes is body language. It's just making a cue which is already in real life recognisable.
I haven't seen "Toy Story 2", and don't really plan to (evil makes me queasy. Look who stands to get my money and mindshare if I watch it), but the fact that you pulled up that example shows that we're really arguing what makes our respective non-traditional forms of media great. We both responded to different things, but the idea is the same.
Personally, I believe that crying is easy -- it's making your audience believe that you're about to cry, but are holding back, and demonstrating this without saying a word, which is difficult. I think the pulsating eyes are the best way to illustrate someones eyes misting up(wrong words, but...) -- the point just before there are any real tears.
BTW, I am a western viewer as well. The fact that I reacted to that shows that it is something that at least *some* people will react to.
D'oh! That's my dang functional illiteracy acting up again(yeah right. I was just lazy and saw D Duck). Everyone who read the message knew which duck I was talking about, so I'm just glad someone caught it -- I sure as hell wouldn't have.
Hey sonny, back in my day we respected our elders! Even the ones who were losing their minds slowly because their memories violate the DMCC -- I mean DMCP -- No the Canada Pension Plan! No, wait!!! The DMCA! heh heh heh!
Secondly, I don't really care about karma at this point; I'd have hundreds if there wasn't a cap. +2 is +2, so why not let a comment which is more on-topic than you bitching about my functional illiteracy be posted at +2?
Thirdly, since you can't mod in this thread, why even bother posting about how badly I'm going to be modded?
The single thing which makes anime better than other cartoon styles is their constant willingness to treat it's viewers like adults. There have been other examples of this, such as Heavy Metal and Heavy Metal 2000, but they are rare. The movies which treat their audiences like adults *and* are good generally get a following of fans. Cartoons tend to have a stigma for this very reason -- most people associate them with childrens shows. When a very mature and adult movie(or TV show) comes out, most people scoff at it as "those damn kids shows".:)
Second, Anime tends to be able to beter portray emotion, action, and other concepts than traditional animation. I've yet to see a more subtle, or more recognisable depicion of emotion than the simple "pulsating eyes" trick done in anime to show sadness. In regular animation, the laws of physics are generally followed, but in anime, they are usually willing to drop such laws if it makes the action seem faster, or if it helps a joke play out better.
Plotlines in Anime movies and TV shows, are for the most part, very in-depth. Most characters have a history beyond the story, or in the case of a show like Dragonball Z, you get to see the story progressing, and in the case of DBZ, you get to see the characters change and grow. It shows a depth to the writing that simply doesn't exist in Other cartoons, or indeed, other TV shows and movies in general.
In other words, the art form is just the receptical. If someone wrote a movie which had such literary elements it would likely be immensely popular(like, oh, I don't know... the anime-inspired The Matrix?)
Bugs bunny is pretty cool, but daffy duck et. al. at Disney can go to hell. Bugs Bunny in intelligent, and has humor that someone my age can enjoy, whereas Disney is intentionally stupid.
That's too bad. I had a 286 with an unprecedented 8 MB of RAM, and I couldn't find anything to *do* with that much memory! I ended up with a 6MB Ramdrive which sat empty most of the time.
Try K-Meleon at kmeleon.sourceforge.net It was just released a little while ago, and is based on the latest Mozilla 1.2b milestone. It's very fast and supports that feature nicely.
p.s. Yes, I'm pimping KM in this thread. I wouldn't be if it wasn't good.
Try K-Meleon. It's a stable, quick version of mozilla. It also has a nicer interface, IMHO, and is brutally easy to make skins for(which, as we know, is all a web browser is good for -- showing off skins!:) )
If you're running windows, try K-Meleon. the.7 release just came out, which is even faster than.6, and has one hell of a good implementation of tabs(IMHO)
Well I'll be damned. Disregard my example of System Shock 2, and replace it with System Shock 1.:)
If System Shock 1 was that successful over it's lifetime, take your pick out of a rather large library of good games critically which never got the sales they deserved.
http://www.pcgr.com/dailynews/archive/arc9-1999. ht ml
If you look, it turns out that GTA1 was a multi-million seller. My numbers were from PC Gamer, so apparantly, they are flawed.:(
For the most part though, a game designer, a person with the overall vision, is required to make a truly fun game. It's the vision that makes a person a game designer, not really the title, and when programmers, artists, and musicians without vision try to make games, the results are often highly derivitave, and often not very fun.
Perhaps, but for the most part, I only read those mags for entertainment anyway. The three magazines I've liked over the years are the now dead PC Games, because it showed some insight into the industry, the now dead PC Accelerator, because it was just fun to read, and more recently, Computer Games, because it has some insight into the creation of games, which comes in handy for me.
There are a lot more gamers in the non-adolescent market than you might be lead to believe by the marketing most try to pull. Just remember that we have the money. No matter what effects generation "echo" have had, a person working for a living has far more spare income than some kid in high school. That's the reason there are still plots in games(well...some games, anyway), and while it's fun to get a little juvinile sometimes, overall, games can be quite mature in terms of content without being childish. One example I can think of is the hanging corpse in the first bio-lab in System Shock 2. It's a very violent and yet very subtle thing, but not at all childish.
Now that the huge off-topic rant is out of the way, You're right that when the press says a game is good, it probably is, but I've found that games which didn't get reviews which were quite as good are often in dispute with me. For example; I really liked SiN. I thought it had a lot of character and some really cool levels, so I finished it. Sin was *NOT* a good topic for reviewers. I've found some really fun games which had some lesser qualities(such as the original GTA), whose fun factor more than made up for graphical shortcomings, but they got reamed in reviews. It's only with the first 3d GTA that the press is sitting up and saying "hey! This is really good stuff!"...
"Only people of the press say my game isn't good, their opinion isn't important anyway"
This is actually true. There are two edges to this; First, take the original Grand Theft Auto. It didn't really do too well critically(The magazine I was subscribing to at the time gave it a "c", and it was fairly liberal with the marks), but it ended up selling over 90 thousand copies and spawned three sequels. On the other side, System Shock 2(which I own, incidently), recieved critical acclaim from just about everybody, and sold relatively poorly(which is a damn shame, since it is an incredible game, IMHO).
The gaming press seems to me rather detached from the buying habits of gamers.
Also, Programmers don't make games. They make game engines. Game designers make games. Artists make art. Musicians make music. Programmers, artists and Musicians who thing they are Game designers make ass.
Slashdot Mirror
Pseudo dramas. Think the new He-Man, or any one of the many crappy "teens doing stupid things" shows.
Makes me glad I've cut down on my TV-time.
Damn straight. How else are we supposed to get the word out on those crooked catapult manufacturers?
Juvinile adults, but adults nonetheless. It didn't bother to make the heroine invincible, it didn't strap tight bikinis onto the women because they didn't want to show nudity(far more juvinile than nudity, IMHO), it didn't dummy down the plot(what there was of a plot, mind you) so it was immediately understandable to the kiddies. Sure, it's juvinile at face value, but the fact that they went out and respected thier audience enough to actually do what they wanted to says a lot.
american cartoons bend the laws of physics with wild abandon
Forgive me, I was thinking more about pseudo-drama, like you'll see if you turn on the TV and start flipping channels until you see a cartoon. Looney Tunes(was it tunes?) are in a class all their own.
I had been thinking about a very specific instance in anime vs. a very specific instance in other animation. Keep in mind that it's been a long time since I've seen either(The video store got rid of all their anime inventory...)
Pulsating eyes is body language. It's just making a cue which is already in real life recognisable.
I haven't seen "Toy Story 2", and don't really plan to (evil makes me queasy. Look who stands to get my money and mindshare if I watch it), but the fact that you pulled up that example shows that we're really arguing what makes our respective non-traditional forms of media great. We both responded to different things, but the idea is the same.
Personally, I believe that crying is easy -- it's making your audience believe that you're about to cry, but are holding back, and demonstrating this without saying a word, which is difficult. I think the pulsating eyes are the best way to illustrate someones eyes misting up(wrong words, but...) -- the point just before there are any real tears.
BTW, I am a western viewer as well. The fact that I reacted to that shows that it is something that at least *some* people will react to.
D'oh! That's my dang functional illiteracy acting up again(yeah right. I was just lazy and saw D Duck). Everyone who read the message knew which duck I was talking about, so I'm just glad someone caught it -- I sure as hell wouldn't have.
Hey sonny, back in my day we respected our elders! Even the ones who were losing their minds slowly because their memories violate the DMCC -- I mean DMCP -- No the Canada Pension Plan! No, wait!!! The DMCA! heh heh heh!
Secondly, I don't really care about karma at this point; I'd have hundreds if there wasn't a cap. +2 is +2, so why not let a comment which is more on-topic than you bitching about my functional illiteracy be posted at +2?
Thirdly, since you can't mod in this thread, why even bother posting about how badly I'm going to be modded?
The single thing which makes anime better than other cartoon styles is their constant willingness to treat it's viewers like adults. There have been other examples of this, such as Heavy Metal and Heavy Metal 2000, but they are rare. The movies which treat their audiences like adults *and* are good generally get a following of fans. Cartoons tend to have a stigma for this very reason -- most people associate them with childrens shows. When a very mature and adult movie(or TV show) comes out, most people scoff at it as "those damn kids shows". :)
Second, Anime tends to be able to beter portray emotion, action, and other concepts than traditional animation. I've yet to see a more subtle, or more recognisable depicion of emotion than the simple "pulsating eyes" trick done in anime to show sadness. In regular animation, the laws of physics are generally followed, but in anime, they are usually willing to drop such laws if it makes the action seem faster, or if it helps a joke play out better.
Plotlines in Anime movies and TV shows, are for the most part, very in-depth. Most characters have a history beyond the story, or in the case of a show like Dragonball Z, you get to see the story progressing, and in the case of DBZ, you get to see the characters change and grow. It shows a depth to the writing that simply doesn't exist in Other cartoons, or indeed, other TV shows and movies in general.
In other words, the art form is just the receptical. If someone wrote a movie which had such literary elements it would likely be immensely popular(like, oh, I don't know... the anime-inspired The Matrix?)
Bugs bunny is pretty cool, but daffy duck et. al. at Disney can go to hell. Bugs Bunny in intelligent, and has humor that someone my age can enjoy, whereas Disney is intentionally stupid.
That's too bad. I had a 286 with an unprecedented 8 MB of RAM, and I couldn't find anything to *do* with that much memory! I ended up with a 6MB Ramdrive which sat empty most of the time.
If you want to send me 30 dollars per call, go right ahead and fire away.
Try K-Meleon at kmeleon.sourceforge.net
It was just released a little while ago, and is based on the latest Mozilla 1.2b milestone. It's very fast and supports that feature nicely.
p.s. Yes, I'm pimping KM in this thread. I wouldn't be if it wasn't good.
kmeleon.sourceforge.net
Try K-Meleon. It's a stable, quick version of mozilla. It also has a nicer interface, IMHO, and is brutally easy to make skins for(which, as we know, is all a web browser is good for -- showing off skins! :) )
I recall reading about this; those bugs were fixed before the bugs were reported this weekend.
...And Doom 1 won't run on my 286!!!
If you're running windows, try K-Meleon. the .7 release just came out, which is even faster than .6, and has one hell of a good implementation of tabs(IMHO)
kmeleon.sourceforge.net
Well I'll be damned. Disregard my example of System Shock 2, and replace it with System Shock 1. :)
. ht ml
:(
If System Shock 1 was that successful over it's lifetime, take your pick out of a rather large library of good games critically which never got the sales they deserved.
http://www.pcgr.com/dailynews/archive/arc9-1999
If you look, it turns out that GTA1 was a multi-million seller. My numbers were from PC Gamer, so apparantly, they are flawed.
For the most part though, a game designer, a person with the overall vision, is required to make a truly fun game. It's the vision that makes a person a game designer, not really the title, and when programmers, artists, and musicians without vision try to make games, the results are often highly derivitave, and often not very fun.
Perhaps, but for the most part, I only read those mags for entertainment anyway. The three magazines I've liked over the years are the now dead PC Games, because it showed some insight into the industry, the now dead PC Accelerator, because it was just fun to read, and more recently, Computer Games, because it has some insight into the creation of games, which comes in handy for me.
My sources say 55k units shipped for SS2. Feel free to provide a source which says differently. I'd love to find out that SS2 did better.
www.daemon-tools.com
:)
It's not exactly official, but it's a very useful tool I use to ensure that I don't have to worry about destroying my CDs.
There are a lot more gamers in the non-adolescent market than you might be lead to believe by the marketing most try to pull. Just remember that we have the money. No matter what effects generation "echo" have had, a person working for a living has far more spare income than some kid in high school. That's the reason there are still plots in games(well...some games, anyway), and while it's fun to get a little juvinile sometimes, overall, games can be quite mature in terms of content without being childish. One example I can think of is the hanging corpse in the first bio-lab in System Shock 2. It's a very violent and yet very subtle thing, but not at all childish.
Now that the huge off-topic rant is out of the way, You're right that when the press says a game is good, it probably is, but I've found that games which didn't get reviews which were quite as good are often in dispute with me. For example; I really liked SiN. I thought it had a lot of character and some really cool levels, so I finished it. Sin was *NOT* a good topic for reviewers. I've found some really fun games which had some lesser qualities(such as the original GTA), whose fun factor more than made up for graphical shortcomings, but they got reamed in reviews. It's only with the first 3d GTA that the press is sitting up and saying "hey! This is really good stuff!"...
"Only people of the press say my game isn't good, their opinion isn't important anyway"
This is actually true. There are two edges to this; First, take the original Grand Theft Auto. It didn't really do too well critically(The magazine I was subscribing to at the time gave it a "c", and it was fairly liberal with the marks), but it ended up selling over 90 thousand copies and spawned three sequels. On the other side, System Shock 2(which I own, incidently), recieved critical acclaim from just about everybody, and sold relatively poorly(which is a damn shame, since it is an incredible game, IMHO).
The gaming press seems to me rather detached from the buying habits of gamers.
Also, Programmers don't make games. They make game engines. Game designers make games. Artists make art. Musicians make music. Programmers, artists and Musicians who thing they are Game designers make ass.
Alien Crossfire.