So all the CSS encrypted DVDs, players and recorders will have to be replaced?
if this happens, then someone will have to make T-Shirts with crypto-source code on them like with decss, then turn up at your local police station and demand to be arrested.
And then theres graphics:
Excuse me sir, thats illigal encryption technology, your going to have to come with me. "But officer, im just overlaying one image over the other in [gimp/photoshop/paintshop] and using the 'add' filter."
Bush, you silly dumbass, stop smoking your joints, and get your congress off crack.
Once in a while, someone in a high position comes up with a law idea thats so dumb, ridiculous, misinformed and violatory of peoples basic rights, that everyone ignores it and breaks it. This makes it unenforceable, even the law enforcement sees how dumb it is, and the person who came up with it is taken out of power or theres a revolution.
Lets put it in dumbass terms:
Once upon a time, there was a King, lets call him George, who ruled over a big land. One day, the king was bored, so he decided to make some laws for fun. First he made a reasonable law, that the people would like, he made the law so that the rich couldn't take advantage of the poor. The people liked this law because only afew of them were rich, and the rich didn't mind it so much because it wasn't that restrictive and they could see that if they were poor, they would want it that way too. Then the king decided to make a dumb law to counterbalance the good he had done. He made the law so that no-one could write. Most people in the land couldn't write anyway, so they didn't mind. The king had all the pens and paper taken away and burnt and only the royal scribes were allowed to write. The people were starting to get a little pissed off with the laws but they didn't do anything. Then he made the 3rd law. This time he was really bored, so he decided that no-one could speak. He figured that if no-one could speak, then no-one could complain about the laws or organise a revolution. So he had his guards patrol the land making sure no-one could speak. People were forced to wear gags when they weren't eating, and anyone who spoke had their vocal chords removed. Sooner or later, the guards and the people and everyone else but the king decided that they had had enough, so they took off their gags, made pens and paper and hanged the king outside the palace and then danced on his grave.
Under this law, people could go to prison just for writing something like:
ewUebiEuieMewOqbBsNabLwKqqiaJagdYtwrEywGfjHdOd
You still ignored the fact that so many people would ignor this stupid legislation (including terrorists) (like so many people copy music) that it would be impossible to enforce. This is true thought-police style stuff that you only see in the most socialist countries or in Hollywood. Also the fact that somany people write encryption algorithems, how will you tell whats what? how can the system determine if what its reading is just a random stream? does that mean you would have random streams (like the one above) a federal offence. You can write a simple crypto algorithem in under an hour, there are 1000s of books filled with examples, you can encrypt something with a pen and paper or you can hide messages in messages. Terrorists could send a text message on their phones saying 'i had a late night' meaning the plane is 5 mins late taking off. This is stupid, i don't know why i evenbother arguing with such a stupid idea...
If you _really_ want to help, try restricting guns and weapons - ie the things that actually kill people
True anti-monopoly laws are for the common good, so are laws against advertising cigarettes to kids (all though this is more debatable). 'Common good' means something that is good, but only for the common (i.e the big majority of people). If 90% of people vote for something, then that something is for the common good.
The DMCA however, is not for the common good, its for the good of the few big corporations so they can create false economies buy conspiring to artificially restrict products so they can sell for high prices (i.e. going against the common good law and gouging.) The SSSCA is just an extension of this that infringes even more on peoples rights for the uncommon-good.
Closing the borders would probably not have helped.
Closing airspace would, but only if there were more attacks planned.
If the government had done something for the common good, like directly stopping people from hi-jacking planes, before the attacks, then maybe they wouldn't have happened. (for example, security guards on planes, locking doors, security codes to fly the plane, not putting 1000s of people in one big tall building.
Encryption backdoors would not help prevent terrorism, that is a fact. They would cause a lot of problems though. I think even congress wouldn't be dumb enough to actually do it.
We are the American government, we say "Freedom and Justice to all!!!"
30 mins later:
We are the American government, we have shut down all borders and banned planes from flying. We have turned off the cell-phone networks and established checkpoints across the country. We have installed Carnivor boxes in all the big ISPs to monitor your email. We want to ensure all encryption software has back doors. Oh good, now we can do all this, and do it quicker because people will believe that it will help prevent terrorism, not only that but we can rush the SSSCA law through the system, and stop assigning bandwidth for mobile phones, We believe in justice, but under the circumstances lets just go and kill Bin Laden, and, just for good faith, we'll promise not to blow the Taliban and half of Afghanistan away if they give him up first.
Even though it was very much our fault for not realising that sooner or later someone would put hijacking, and suicide bombing together to produce a weapon, and we should have improved security on planes, lets just forget that for a second and GOD BLESS AMERICA, sorry, got carried away there an.. GOD SAVE AMERICA, sorry, no more i promise. Oh, and 'cause we don't want to take the retaliation all for our selves, lets make sure they use the All-for-one-one-for-all section of the UN treaty and drag all the other countries into it.
Thats the best way i've heard it put all week. But you missed a bit: You don't even need a computer to encrypt a message, if your just going for a simple symetric key based system and your not encrypting a 500-page novel, you could do it with pen and paper. Infact, you could probably train yourself to do it in your head (like those chinese kids do math).
checks and balances? wow, you must be a politician. Sorry, but your post was too jucy to leave. I just have to pick it apart and put you down..
>"getting them quickly detected, arrested for illegal encryption use, and investigated. Note that under current law, this could only be done for international traffic - domestic traffic would still require a court order even to record it."
I'm lost here, surely anyone outside your country (yes there are other places other than America) would be (thankfully) immune to these laws, thus your government would have no power to arrest them (ignoring the skylarov case here)
Next, the rest of the world would be transmitting using illigal encryption, (not to mention the Americans who are not going to just sit there and watch their rights go) this will overload the feds' computer system and also mean that most of the non US population of the world will now have a warrent for their arrest as soon as they touch down on American soil.
Now, on a separate line: Lets imagine for a second, that the bush decides to do this. Ingnoring the fact that it would violate all sorts of freedom of speech stuff and cause up-roar in the US and the rest of the world (like Europe, where we care about our freedoms). Ok, so now encrypting with a non approved algorithm is a federal offence carrying fines and prison sentances. the major players like PGP would have to comply and add backdoors. These companies will immediately go bankrupt because suddenly no-one wants to use their software anymore. So, everyone says "F*ck you bush" and uses illegal encryption software.
The major military departments also decide that some of their more 'sensitive' communications should be kept away from bush's eyes and they revert to their more secure encryption methods. Oh, whats this, one of the major software companies that supplies the government has leaked details of the backdoor (they would have to have that information seeing as they put it in there them selves.. OH NO!! now the whole world knows everything that the law abiding Americans are secretly saying... whats that bush? you wrote a secret communication to your defence sec. saying what? "kill all islamic people!"!?!?! oh dear, now your in trouble. Oh but wait. thats nothing because now the US government, 50% of the population and the rest of the world have backlogged the feds' computer spy system with illegal, unbreakable encrypted messages. Oh dear, looks like everyones committed a federal offence...
UhjHie hoiRHoh iofwenbm Fmbnmef sdHfhioe HiI eDguH dHI huo hewF hiohuoFh ui oh uoeD hoh oi e4u iofheh jk jJd3Hi hu ovcxm XcvBZ bcDieJekNaew FrhJsbx CAs jeo KnrKrojg jh urbnK jfif jkePleK jf jrYw Gdj euq ee TreU id Hfj eOriuT dg eGhw jJekJ ywWhd Hfh Hked eXcv BZbc DieJe kNae wFr hJsbx CAsjeoKnrKr ojgjhu rbnKjfifjr YwGdjeu qeeT reUidHfje OriuTdg eGhwjJ ekJy wWhRH ohio fwenbmF mbnm efsdH fhioe
Which, comprises of my plans to crash a banana into the Whitehouse, and the source code to crack the newly proposed security devices in the SSSCA, could put me in prison for a very long time if i refuse to give up the decryption key, (even though its a load of gibberish (it took me 5 whole minutes to type all that with the carefully placed CAPS)). What about that silly little law (i don't no about the US, but we have it in europe) that gives people the right of freedom of speach...?
Wow! Is that the 72% who voted Bush then? oh, no, wait that can't be right, only 50% voted for Bush. The other 20% or so must of been the Bush voters who didn't understand the paper, so voted Gore by mistake.
I wonder who would be sick enough, to use a mass genocide as a platform to persuade people that their ways are best? Would that be the terrorists or the government. Who knows, by the looks of things (DMCA, SSSCA, Crypto Laws) they are one and the same.
You are obviously very stupid if you think that enforcing backdoors in encryption will do anything to stop terrorists. If they wanted, they could have encrypted their messages on paper, are you saying that mathematical algorithms should be restricted?
You are naive to think that your congress had your best interests at heart when they were discussing this. They were actually thinking "Ok, now we've got them hooked on the patriotism crap and the anti-terrorism shit, what outrageous laws can we pass without them noticing."
It was the governments, and the airlines/FAA's responsibility to make sure terrorists could not hi-jack planes. Once a terrorist has hi-jacked a plane, Hollywood will tell you, that they can do anything they want with it. Ignorance is no excuse to the politicians, people have tried (and succeeded?) to suicide-bomb planes into things in the past. The government made a mistake in not planning for this and producing proper safety measures, (they were to busy taking bribes and passing the DMCA) and now, instead of paying for it, they want to pass the buck.
Instead of reviewing how we can reduce the amount of rights people have, there should be a rethinking of how a government system should work, and how, in a society that bases its self on freedom, laws such as the DMCA, SSSCA, and encryption restriction can even be considered, let alone passed.
>Yes Bob, you need more privacy so you can
continue breaking the law.
I'm not breaking the law. I have a right to privacy, not just a need. My name is not bob.
>Give terrorists more protection.
Terrorists are normal people until they commit a crime. They are inocent until proven otherwise. They have a right to think and believe what they want to. They have a right to play "crash into the WTC" on Flight Simulators, and to send private, encrypted messages. Messages which the FBI would be unable to read, or in some cases even recognise, if they tapped the email/phone/net lines etc. Its the responsibility of others to not allow several hundred tons of metal and fuel that flyes over cities everyday, to be hi-jacked by anyone. Unfortunately, that is very difficult, but theres nothing you can do about it.
>We have too many skyscrapers in this country anyway - they block the view.
Yes you do. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a stupid idea, and one that only someone who wanted to make as much money as possible with no regard to safety would do. Putting 1000's of people all in the same tall building is a very stupid thing to do - look at the pentagon, nicely spread out and very difficult to total.
Funny, it seems to go the other way around for me: I see(hear) music adverts on TV and think "oh, thats cool, thanks for spending money advertising your new album to me, i think i'll go and download it for free. Even better, is that i can get the full _raw_ uncompressed track off p2p aswell, if i want it. The music companies should look on the bright side and make the most of p2p, 'cause they sure as hell can't do jack-shit about it. Face it, you just can't sell data, (unless its too big to download) people can copy it too easily.
I think the FBI is using this as an excuse to get full access in the name of "anti-terrorism" to stuff that would normally take months of warrent-obtaining. They're probably not even looking for messages from the terrorists (which don't exist or are encrypted) but instead stuff like "Bob, i still haven't payed my taxes, i think they're on to me..."
I hopfully the terrorists did use encryption. It would be somehow dumb to see them go down from such a stupid mistake, from what was otherwise the perfect crime.
I think developers are finally waking up to this, starting with GTA. I'm still waiting for Sunday-the-whole-city-including-insides-of-buildin gs-is-mapped-and-you-can-smash-mame-and-kill-anyth ing-and-everything-and-take-hostages-and-map-peopl e-you-hate-onto-the-characters-and-use-a-full-arra y-of-realistic-weapons-and-drive-fly-and-control-a nything-and-blow-shit-up Mode and we also need a mindless killing game where you shoot un-armed people (Half-life style) and blow their limbs off and watch them scream in pain. I think that the reason people commit violence after playing video games is that video games today are to restrictive and low quailty. People need that extra edge that the VR world has yet to provide, and if it can provide, allot of people will be content with killing on-screen only. Par-exampl'e, i tried the WTC/pentagon job on (MS) flight sim, and it was pretty lame, no explosions or realistic damage physics, no screams, smoke, fire, just "Building Crash".
Does slashdot count? if so, that describes my life everyday - getup, slashdot, dilbert, register, bbc news. As for the weeks events, i'm starting to loose interest. The crash shots were pretty amazing as far as crash shots go, but after seeing every single angle 20 times each, and vid-capturing them for my FreakyShit directory, they've gotten old. I'm more pissed off with the tv stations over here, they've been going over the schedule for the week and canceling every single program that has a hint of causing offence - a voyager episode where they get taken hostage, a futurama rerun where mom takes over the world, and too many action films to count, its starting to piss me off.
You want flaimbait? You a bunch of socialists. After having you rights stripped by the DMCA, you watch as the SSSCA comes in to mop up. Your government then takes the piss right infront of you buy having carnivor installed in hours where it would normally take months. As if that wasn't enough, your congress wastes valuable time talking about what is effectivly a dumb idea while there are _real_ issues at hand, like how many middle aged men named Ahmed should be allowed to board the same airliner:). The terrorists were totally wrong: they shouldn't have been attacking your govenments capitalism and anti islam. They should have been joining you in world domination.
Is banning strong crypto capitalist or socialist? what about the DMCA or SSSCA? Surely someone should tell the terrorists! Will the bill have a section on double ROT-13 encryption? what about quad ROT-13? thats pretty strong. If childeren are taught at an early age to encrypt their handwriting/speach on-the-fly-in-their-heads (i'm sure its possible) will their freedom of speach be restricted? Will the government of the US ever reach the mental level of a 10 year old? who knows... who cares...
I for one agree totally with this. I believe ALL encryption software should have mandatory backdoors that are made known to the public. This should only be on the condition that _congress_ and all other government and military departments also have backdoors in their software and make them available to the public also.
This bill must include corporate systems such as CSS, WMA, and the digital rights management proposed in the SSSCA. This is the sort of law that will bring the USA into the 21st century. And, hopefully other countries will follow your wise lead in proposing similar laws, instead of taking advantage of the fact that they now know everything you say to each other, your corporate, military and government secrets, and the codes to your nukes.
Is congress mentally retarded or f*cking what?!?!? How do they hope to pull off such a b*ll sh*t plan? Why on earth would they think for a second that some terrorists would decide to do the legal think, and plan their attack using 'legal' crypto software?
Where do they get the MOTHER F***ING IDEA that they are the only f*cking people on the planet, and the only people who can write software. Why is this always the case in disaster movies? (no don't answer that i don't care) This is the sort of thing that gets me p*ssed off so much, that i wish to god that the hi-jackers HAD hit congress and put those dumb sh*ts out of their misery. You'd think that a government could have even the most basic understanding of technology that it and the world relies on. Please wake up to the fact that you are not the only country in the world. The laws that you make, have no effect on anyone else and just make them want to stay away from your slowly-becoming-socialist society (spelling?)
Are there no videos or photos of the Pentagon or Pitts. crashes (the actual crash, not the aftermath). This is hard to believe, surely there are hundereds of turists with cameras around the pentagon area?
Re:There will never again be a good day....
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Pan American 103
TWA 800
Concorde
These were pretty intense and had recognisable parts intact
Re:Why in the hell would he cover it up?
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They wouldn't try to rush the door if one of the hi-jackers was standing guard infront of it with a knife to someones throat.
Don't forget, by this time, most government buildings were empty, is the white house, capital hill or the pentagon worth 100 civilians? Military personnel join, knowing they might be sacrificed in a hostage situation. Euthanasia is illegal (maybe it isn't in america, but im pretty sure.). If it was shot down, they would rather cover it up than risk people questioning weather it was right.
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If the hi-jackers took control of the plane then they would surely lock the door to the cockpit - thats the natural response when your out numbered by 100 people. if that was so, then they would be able to fly where they liked without being rushed. If the passengers had regained full control, then they wouldn't go crashing into the ground. They would have been talked down by the controllers. If there was a struggle in the cockpit, then the passengers would have waited until the last minute until they pushed the nose down. The terrorists would try to fly to the nearest populated area before giving up on such a large operation.
Has anyone seen any major wreckage from the 4th plane, such as the tail? If you look at other crash photos, this almost always survives. Unless of course, the plane was hit from the back by a missile which could disintegrate the back of the plane. Would Bush really shoot down a passenger jet and then try to cover it up? did Bill Clinton F*ck and lie? you bet'cha ass.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh sorry, my mistake, CSS already has a backdoor
So all the CSS encrypted DVDs, players and recorders will have to be replaced?
if this happens, then someone will have to make T-Shirts with crypto-source code on them like with decss, then turn up at your local police station and demand to be arrested.
And then theres graphics:
Excuse me sir, thats illigal encryption technology, your going to have to come with me. "But officer, im just overlaying one image over the other in [gimp/photoshop/paintshop] and using the 'add' filter."
Bush, you silly dumbass, stop smoking your joints, and get your congress off crack.
Once in a while, someone in a high position comes up with a law idea thats so dumb, ridiculous, misinformed and violatory of peoples basic rights, that everyone ignores it and breaks it. This makes it unenforceable, even the law enforcement sees how dumb it is, and the person who came up with it is taken out of power or theres a revolution.
Lets put it in dumbass terms:
Once upon a time, there was a King, lets call him George, who ruled over a big land. One day, the king was bored, so he decided to make some laws for fun. First he made a reasonable law, that the people would like, he made the law so that the rich couldn't take advantage of the poor. The people liked this law because only afew of them were rich, and the rich didn't mind it so much because it wasn't that restrictive and they could see that if they were poor, they would want it that way too. Then the king decided to make a dumb law to counterbalance the good he had done. He made the law so that no-one could write. Most people in the land couldn't write anyway, so they didn't mind. The king had all the pens and paper taken away and burnt and only the royal scribes were allowed to write. The people were starting to get a little pissed off with the laws but they didn't do anything. Then he made the 3rd law. This time he was really bored, so he decided that no-one could speak. He figured that if no-one could speak, then no-one could complain about the laws or organise a revolution. So he had his guards patrol the land making sure no-one could speak. People were forced to wear gags when they weren't eating, and anyone who spoke had their vocal chords removed. Sooner or later, the guards and the people and everyone else but the king decided that they had had enough, so they took off their gags, made pens and paper and hanged the king outside the palace and then danced on his grave.
~ THE END ~
Under this law, people could go to prison just for writing something like:
ewUebiEuieMewOqbBsNabLwKqqiaJagdYtwrEywGfjHdOd
You still ignored the fact that so many people would ignor this stupid legislation (including terrorists) (like so many people copy music) that it would be impossible to enforce. This is true thought-police style stuff that you only see in the most socialist countries or in Hollywood. Also the fact that somany people write encryption algorithems, how will you tell whats what? how can the system determine if what its reading is just a random stream? does that mean you would have random streams (like the one above) a federal offence. You can write a simple crypto algorithem in under an hour, there are 1000s of books filled with examples, you can encrypt something with a pen and paper or you can hide messages in messages. Terrorists could send a text message on their phones saying 'i had a late night' meaning the plane is 5 mins late taking off. This is stupid, i don't know why i evenbother arguing with such a stupid idea...
If you _really_ want to help, try restricting guns and weapons - ie the things that actually kill people
True anti-monopoly laws are for the common good, so are laws against advertising cigarettes to kids (all though this is more debatable). 'Common good' means something that is good, but only for the common (i.e the big majority of people). If 90% of people vote for something, then that something is for the common good.
The DMCA however, is not for the common good, its for the good of the few big corporations so they can create false economies buy conspiring to artificially restrict products so they can sell for high prices (i.e. going against the common good law and gouging.) The SSSCA is just an extension of this that infringes even more on peoples rights for the uncommon-good.
Closing the borders would probably not have helped.
Closing airspace would, but only if there were more attacks planned.
If the government had done something for the common good, like directly stopping people from hi-jacking planes, before the attacks, then maybe they wouldn't have happened. (for example, security guards on planes, locking doors, security codes to fly the plane, not putting 1000s of people in one big tall building.
Encryption backdoors would not help prevent terrorism, that is a fact. They would cause a lot of problems though. I think even congress wouldn't be dumb enough to actually do it.
We are the American government, we say "Freedom and Justice to all!!!"
30 mins later:
We are the American government, we have shut down all borders and banned planes from flying. We have turned off the cell-phone networks and established checkpoints across the country. We have installed Carnivor boxes in all the big ISPs to monitor your email. We want to ensure all encryption software has back doors. Oh good, now we can do all this, and do it quicker because people will believe that it will help prevent terrorism, not only that but we can rush the SSSCA law through the system, and stop assigning bandwidth for mobile phones, We believe in justice, but under the circumstances lets just go and kill Bin Laden, and, just for good faith, we'll promise not to blow the Taliban and half of Afghanistan away if they give him up first.
Even though it was very much our fault for not realising that sooner or later someone would put hijacking, and suicide bombing together to produce a weapon, and we should have improved security on planes, lets just forget that for a second and GOD BLESS AMERICA, sorry, got carried away there an.. GOD SAVE AMERICA, sorry, no more i promise. Oh, and 'cause we don't want to take the retaliation all for our selves, lets make sure they use the All-for-one-one-for-all section of the UN treaty and drag all the other countries into it.
Mod that post up to max!
Thats the best way i've heard it put all week. But you missed a bit: You don't even need a computer to encrypt a message, if your just going for a simple symetric key based system and your not encrypting a 500-page novel, you could do it with pen and paper. Infact, you could probably train yourself to do it in your head (like those chinese kids do math).
checks and balances? wow, you must be a politician. Sorry, but your post was too jucy to leave. I just have to pick it apart and put you down..
>"getting them quickly detected, arrested for illegal encryption use, and investigated. Note that under current law, this could only be done for international traffic - domestic traffic would still require a court order even to record it."
I'm lost here, surely anyone outside your country (yes there are other places other than America) would be (thankfully) immune to these laws, thus your government would have no power to arrest them (ignoring the skylarov case here)
Next, the rest of the world would be transmitting using illigal encryption, (not to mention the Americans who are not going to just sit there and watch their rights go) this will overload the feds' computer system and also mean that most of the non US population of the world will now have a warrent for their arrest as soon as they touch down on American soil.
Now, on a separate line: Lets imagine for a second, that the bush decides to do this. Ingnoring the fact that it would violate all sorts of freedom of speech stuff and cause up-roar in the US and the rest of the world (like Europe, where we care about our freedoms). Ok, so now encrypting with a non approved algorithm is a federal offence carrying fines and prison sentances. the major players like PGP would have to comply and add backdoors. These companies will immediately go bankrupt because suddenly no-one wants to use their software anymore. So, everyone says "F*ck you bush" and uses illegal encryption software.
The major military departments also decide that some of their more 'sensitive' communications should be kept away from bush's eyes and they revert to their more secure encryption methods. Oh, whats this, one of the major software companies that supplies the government has leaked details of the backdoor (they would have to have that information seeing as they put it in there them selves.. OH NO!! now the whole world knows everything that the law abiding Americans are secretly saying... whats that bush? you wrote a secret communication to your defence sec. saying what? "kill all islamic people!"!?!?! oh dear, now your in trouble. Oh but wait. thats nothing because now the US government, 50% of the population and the rest of the world have backlogged the feds' computer spy system with illegal, unbreakable encrypted messages. Oh dear, looks like everyones committed a federal offence...
So:
UhjHie hoiRHoh iofwenbm Fmbnmef sdHfhioe HiI eDguH dHI huo hewF hiohuoFh ui oh uoeD hoh oi e4u iofheh jk jJd3Hi hu ovcxm XcvBZ bcDieJekNaew FrhJsbx CAs jeo KnrKrojg jh urbnK jfif jkePleK jf jrYw Gdj euq ee TreU id Hfj eOriuT dg eGhw jJekJ ywWhd Hfh Hked eXcv BZbc DieJe kNae wFr hJsbx CAsjeoKnrKr ojgjhu rbnKjfifjr YwGdjeu qeeT reUidHfje OriuTdg eGhwjJ ekJy wWhRH ohio fwenbmF mbnm efsdH fhioe
Which, comprises of my plans to crash a banana into the Whitehouse, and the source code to crack the newly proposed security devices in the SSSCA, could put me in prison for a very long time if i refuse to give up the decryption key, (even though its a load of gibberish (it took me 5 whole minutes to type all that with the carefully placed CAPS)). What about that silly little law (i don't no about the US, but we have it in europe) that gives people the right of freedom of speach...?
Wow! Is that the 72% who voted Bush then? oh, no, wait that can't be right, only 50% voted for Bush. The other 20% or so must of been the Bush voters who didn't understand the paper, so voted Gore by mistake.
I wonder who would be sick enough, to use a mass genocide as a platform to persuade people that their ways are best? Would that be the terrorists or the government. Who knows, by the looks of things (DMCA, SSSCA, Crypto Laws) they are one and the same.
You are obviously very stupid if you think that enforcing backdoors in encryption will do anything to stop terrorists. If they wanted, they could have encrypted their messages on paper, are you saying that mathematical algorithms should be restricted?
You are naive to think that your congress had your best interests at heart when they were discussing this. They were actually thinking "Ok, now we've got them hooked on the patriotism crap and the anti-terrorism shit, what outrageous laws can we pass without them noticing."
It was the governments, and the airlines/FAA's responsibility to make sure terrorists could not hi-jack planes. Once a terrorist has hi-jacked a plane, Hollywood will tell you, that they can do anything they want with it. Ignorance is no excuse to the politicians, people have tried (and succeeded?) to suicide-bomb planes into things in the past. The government made a mistake in not planning for this and producing proper safety measures, (they were to busy taking bribes and passing the DMCA) and now, instead of paying for it, they want to pass the buck.
Instead of reviewing how we can reduce the amount of rights people have, there should be a rethinking of how a government system should work, and how, in a society that bases its self on freedom, laws such as the DMCA, SSSCA, and encryption restriction can even be considered, let alone passed.
>Yes Bob, you need more privacy so you can
continue breaking the law.
I'm not breaking the law. I have a right to privacy, not just a need. My name is not bob.
>Give terrorists more protection.
Terrorists are normal people until they commit a crime. They are inocent until proven otherwise. They have a right to think and believe what they want to. They have a right to play "crash into the WTC" on Flight Simulators, and to send private, encrypted messages. Messages which the FBI would be unable to read, or in some cases even recognise, if they tapped the email/phone/net lines etc. Its the responsibility of others to not allow several hundred tons of metal and fuel that flyes over cities everyday, to be hi-jacked by anyone. Unfortunately, that is very difficult, but theres nothing you can do about it.
>We have too many skyscrapers in this country anyway - they block the view.
Yes you do. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a stupid idea, and one that only someone who wanted to make as much money as possible with no regard to safety would do. Putting 1000's of people all in the same tall building is a very stupid thing to do - look at the pentagon, nicely spread out and very difficult to total.
Funny, it seems to go the other way around for me: I see(hear) music adverts on TV and think "oh, thats cool, thanks for spending money advertising your new album to me, i think i'll go and download it for free. Even better, is that i can get the full _raw_ uncompressed track off p2p aswell, if i want it. The music companies should look on the bright side and make the most of p2p, 'cause they sure as hell can't do jack-shit about it. Face it, you just can't sell data, (unless its too big to download) people can copy it too easily.
I think the FBI is using this as an excuse to get full access in the name of "anti-terrorism" to stuff that would normally take months of warrent-obtaining. They're probably not even looking for messages from the terrorists (which don't exist or are encrypted) but instead stuff like "Bob, i still haven't payed my taxes, i think they're on to me..."
I hopfully the terrorists did use encryption. It would be somehow dumb to see them go down from such a stupid mistake, from what was otherwise the perfect crime.
>"3 Words: Microsoft Flight Simulator"
3 More: Is total shite.
no no, i mean _realistic_ as in: set now, in a real city...
WTC Terrorist 1: Hey Ahmed, check this out, this cool game, you can fly planes and shit, and scare people
WTC Terrorist 2: Wow! the graphics are amazing!
WTC Terrorist 1: I know, look, i can loop the loop
WTC Terrorist 2: Oh my god! You can even hear the passengers screaming! it sounds so real. Let me have a go...
WTC Terrorist 1: No! don't fly into the world trade center, Al-bashi did that a few minutes ago, and windows crashed...
I think developers are finally waking up to this, starting with GTA. I'm still waiting for Sunday-the-whole-city-including-insides-of-buildin gs-is-mapped-and-you-can-smash-mame-and-kill-anyth ing-and-everything-and-take-hostages-and-map-peopl e-you-hate-onto-the-characters-and-use-a-full-arra y-of-realistic-weapons-and-drive-fly-and-control-a nything-and-blow-shit-up Mode and we also need a mindless killing game where you shoot un-armed people (Half-life style) and blow their limbs off and watch them scream in pain. I think that the reason people commit violence after playing video games is that video games today are to restrictive and low quailty. People need that extra edge that the VR world has yet to provide, and if it can provide, allot of people will be content with killing on-screen only. Par-exampl'e, i tried the WTC/pentagon job on (MS) flight sim, and it was pretty lame, no explosions or realistic damage physics, no screams, smoke, fire, just "Building Crash".
Does slashdot count? if so, that describes my life everyday - getup, slashdot, dilbert, register, bbc news. As for the weeks events, i'm starting to loose interest. The crash shots were pretty amazing as far as crash shots go, but after seeing every single angle 20 times each, and vid-capturing them for my FreakyShit directory, they've gotten old. I'm more pissed off with the tv stations over here, they've been going over the schedule for the week and canceling every single program that has a hint of causing offence - a voyager episode where they get taken hostage, a futurama rerun where mom takes over the world, and too many action films to count, its starting to piss me off.
You want flaimbait? You a bunch of socialists. After having you rights stripped by the DMCA, you watch as the SSSCA comes in to mop up. Your government then takes the piss right infront of you buy having carnivor installed in hours where it would normally take months. As if that wasn't enough, your congress wastes valuable time talking about what is effectivly a dumb idea while there are _real_ issues at hand, like how many middle aged men named Ahmed should be allowed to board the same airliner :). The terrorists were totally wrong: they shouldn't have been attacking your govenments capitalism and anti islam. They should have been joining you in world domination.
Is banning strong crypto capitalist or socialist? what about the DMCA or SSSCA? Surely someone should tell the terrorists! Will the bill have a section on double ROT-13 encryption? what about quad ROT-13? thats pretty strong. If childeren are taught at an early age to encrypt their handwriting/speach on-the-fly-in-their-heads (i'm sure its possible) will their freedom of speach be restricted? Will the government of the US ever reach the mental level of a 10 year old? who knows... who cares...
Mod me down and you are with bin laden
I for one agree totally with this. I believe ALL encryption software should have mandatory backdoors that are made known to the public. This should only be on the condition that _congress_ and all other government and military departments also have backdoors in their software and make them available to the public also.
This bill must include corporate systems such as CSS, WMA, and the digital rights management proposed in the SSSCA. This is the sort of law that will bring the USA into the 21st century. And, hopefully other countries will follow your wise lead in proposing similar laws, instead of taking advantage of the fact that they now know everything you say to each other, your corporate, military and government secrets, and the codes to your nukes.
Is congress mentally retarded or f*cking what?!?!? How do they hope to pull off such a b*ll sh*t plan? Why on earth would they think for a second that some terrorists would decide to do the legal think, and plan their attack using 'legal' crypto software?
Where do they get the MOTHER F***ING IDEA that they are the only f*cking people on the planet, and the only people who can write software. Why is this always the case in disaster movies? (no don't answer that i don't care) This is the sort of thing that gets me p*ssed off so much, that i wish to god that the hi-jackers HAD hit congress and put those dumb sh*ts out of their misery. You'd think that a government could have even the most basic understanding of technology that it and the world relies on. Please wake up to the fact that you are not the only country in the world. The laws that you make, have no effect on anyone else and just make them want to stay away from your slowly-becoming-socialist society (spelling?)
-tfga
Are there no videos or photos of the Pentagon or Pitts. crashes (the actual crash, not the aftermath). This is hard to believe, surely there are hundereds of turists with cameras around the pentagon area?
Pan American 103
TWA 800
Concorde
These were pretty intense and had recognisable parts intact
They wouldn't try to rush the door if one of the hi-jackers was standing guard infront of it with a knife to someones throat.
Don't forget, by this time, most government buildings were empty, is the white house, capital hill or the pentagon worth 100 civilians? Military personnel join, knowing they might be sacrificed in a hostage situation. Euthanasia is illegal (maybe it isn't in america, but im pretty sure.). If it was shot down, they would rather cover it up than risk people questioning weather it was right.
If the hi-jackers took control of the plane then they would surely lock the door to the cockpit - thats the natural response when your out numbered by 100 people. if that was so, then they would be able to fly where they liked without being rushed. If the passengers had regained full control, then they wouldn't go crashing into the ground. They would have been talked down by the controllers. If there was a struggle in the cockpit, then the passengers would have waited until the last minute until they pushed the nose down. The terrorists would try to fly to the nearest populated area before giving up on such a large operation.
Has anyone seen any major wreckage from the 4th plane, such as the tail? If you look at other crash photos, this almost always survives. Unless of course, the plane was hit from the back by a missile which could disintegrate the back of the plane. Would Bush really shoot down a passenger jet and then try to cover it up? did Bill Clinton F*ck and lie? you bet'cha ass.