I've had waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much contact with accountants 8^)
You're right though, there is no "if" about it.
That's not my point however.
One, Everyone already *knows* these CGEY consultants are on the payroll (believe me, there's even huge cynicism amongst employees *inside* CGEY!). This is a bankrolled whitewash - It *will* be as much a PR disaster as MS's other whitewashes.
Two, Newham is not MS's biggest challenge in the UK public sector. There are bigger ones in the works that they wont have such an easy time bankrolling their way out of.
Newham is not the only (or even the biggest!) Council involved in the UK's trials. Even *if* this report can be *manipulated* to make Microsofts solutions *appear* cheaper, they have many, many more headaches ahead of them.
There are a *lot* of behind-the-scenes developments in Open Source deployment in the Public Sector in the UK. They *will* be hitting the news in due course. When they do, Newham will be the *least* of Microsofts problems.
Heh, I hadn't looked at it that way round before - now you mention it, I believe you're right!
Of course, the words 'cold day' and 'hell' spring to mind in the context of MS supporting.sxw files, although I guess they'll have to once the OO user base becomes large enough.
I'd consider MS Office *waaaaaay* too expensive for private use, even if it was available for my desktop OS!
Although it must be said that this study is *quite basic*. The authors, to be fair, do point out however that "This particular experiment should be considered a pilot study that could be extended to a larger one.
Our experience in the 'real' world is exactly the same - compatiblity, for the most part, is *good enough*.
We have been rolling out small pilots with a number of clients using exactly this line of reasoning. For many IT departments who have lived through the *gratuitous incompatibilities* between succesive generations of Microsoft Office, this is all that is required to evaluate alternatives.
Yes, we should strive for 'perfect' interoperability. No, it is not necessary to begin migrating real businesses to an Open Source desktop.
Seriously though, it's great to see such a fantastic technology deployed commercially to meet a *peacefull* need. I always thought exoskeletons would be a military 'breakthrough' first;)
It's all done in-house. OSS runs the whole show - including WAN links (between sites and to the net), DNS, webserver, proxy, SMTP gateway, firewalls - everything. The website used to be hosted, but Killbys brought it inhouse about 261.29 days ago as OSS was giving them better reliability than *anything* else they'd ever used, either in-house *or* outsourced.
businesses just want to do business I *love* that line!, may I use it?
I couldn't agree more btw. I have been developing the theme in a monthly column in LinuxUser & Developer here in the UK. Many of the problems business people are *forced* to deal with in IT are IT problems, not business problems (managing licences is an IT problem, forced biannual hardware and software upgrades are an IT problem, 'reformats & reinstalls' are an IT problem). These IT problems add nothing to the businesses bottom line, yet suck in tremendous resources.
I'm not sure if I fully agree with you on getting less interoperability by using 'non-standard' softare. In my experience different 'generations' of proprietary software have at least as much incompatibility with each other as proprietary vs Free software, still YMMV;)
I'd also have to say that the major OSS server side projects (Samba immediately springs to mind) have fantastic interoperability and will indeed glue together different generations of, say, Microsoft software far better than a native Microsoft server. Again, YMMV.
If Eddie Ball's IT department don't wish to do this - or even if they do;) - we'd be happy to field a UK equivalent IT department *quite* happy to answer questions on a whole company migration to OSS.
Which is what OSS consultancies are for. If you were looking for BUSINESS applications in the proprietary software world, you would most probably go to a consultancy who understood maybe Microsoft, maybee SUN. It is *no* different in the OSS world.
In fact we can solve *more* business problems and elmiminate more *IT problems* then you might currently believe, unless you feel that licence compliance is a legitimate business problem, rather than a pesky IT one...
I never cease to find it amazing that hard-nosed business people accept such lousy service/performance/reliability/cost/you-name-it in this area of their businesses. It is as if critical analysis goes out of the door where IT is concerned. The vast majority of businesses have simply fallen for the lie^Hne that "you never got fired for buying Microsoft software"
The business case for OSS adoption has become the theme for a monthly column I am writing for the UK magazine LinuxUser & Developer. I passionately believe that not only is OSS frequently the best technical solution to an IT problem (something I guess most of us here believe), it is also often the best *business* solution to a business problem.
There are whole *categories* of costs that accrue to companies using proprietary software that simply don't apply to OSS, this is just one of the most obvious of them.
Managing Licences is an IT problem, not a business problem. If a business selects OSS, this problem simply ceases to exist.
I checked out Ernie Balls website uptime here and I see they're reaping *way* better reliability on their website if nothing else! Figures for KG Group are comparable - I'd be willing to guess that Ernie Ball's internal server uptimes are in the one year plus zone too - that's certainly what our clients have found. Companies moving to an OSS back-end don't go back;)
Hey, pedant away;) You're essentially correct although the case *does* needs a little updating;) Whilst it's true that the majority of the desktops are Windows, KG Group have now replaced large numbers with GNU/Linux and MacosX in the places that make the most sense. The main thrust of the desktop takeover has been the apps. IE and Outlook have long since been replaced with Mozilla. Openoffice is spreading fast, and we are currently migrating access-based databases to LAMP! At this stage the underlying desktop becomes irrelevant and GNU/Linux for everyone becomes easy.
You're correct - communicating the benefits of OSS in business terms it *precisely* what is needed to bring about acceptance in the enterprise. You and I are already convinced. Business people don't think in the terms we do, nor do they see why they should. If GNU/Linux and OSS are to achieve the position we all know they should we are going to have to learn to talk this talk.
We have a number of medium sized enterprises *fully* migrated to Open Source software, and running *way* better on it. Our best known (in the UK at least) case study is here. In fact the Group consider Open Source to not merely be a 'substitute' for Microsoft Software, but to have delivered far more real, measurable business benefit than they ever received as a Microsoft Shop. I am glad Ernie Ball are receiving this great press for their *complete* migration, but they are by no means the first (or the last!) decent-sized enterprise to have done this.
Hey! So we don't use the Euro yet, big deal - we do plenty of business in Europe, we've even started liking the French (Joke - honestly!)
Of course I don't think the 'Music' Industry or MS care - however their 'consumers' don't care too much either - they've been voting for MP3s with their downloads and I'd be surprised if this latest anti-consumer scam is going to convince them otherwise.
I'm British - does that count? - already had one poster cast doubts on my European Credentials:)
Truth is, as Andrew Orlowski points out on the Reg "Europeans have learned that the law and its social instruments are best ignored"
When it's a 'bad' law of course;)
You could also say that we're naturally anti-gov and anti-bigBiz.
I think the key, though, is that we simply haven't been hit by the DMCA/DRM/PIRACY/TERRORISTS hysteria yet - unfortunately it appears to be coming RSN:( I don't look forward to getting caught up in the nightmare my USA brethren appear to have got themselves in - just wish enough of my fellow Europeans knew enough, or cared enough, to head it off *before* it arrives - chances of that fading fast...
Seriously, the point is that with a little bit of thought and a commitment to open standards it would be possible to build a music stor that worked for *any* platform.
Yes, the Apple solution causes platform lock-in too - this is hardly justification for a 'Windows lock-in' (again!) service, is it?
Hopefully, users or potential users will vote with their feet once they experience the godawfull mess that is DRM.
I have successfully evangelised Free Software OSs to home users on the strength of freedom from DRM-crippled music alone. Let's hope this speeds the process!
I think the customer service will even poorer over here than it appears to be in the states (from what I've read). The consolation is that it will finally start bringing home to *normal* users what a piece of cr*p the brave new DRM world is. When it starts *really* inconveniencing home users they're going to be PISSED OFF!
British FreeBSD & Linux user here. Even though we Europeans seem to be pulling ahead in Open Source deployments we still can't get a music store that doesn't lock people further into Windows... shame!
Slashdot Mirror
I've had waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much contact with accountants 8^)
You're right though, there is no "if" about it.
That's not my point however.
One, Everyone already *knows* these CGEY consultants are on the payroll (believe me, there's even huge cynicism amongst employees *inside* CGEY!). This is a bankrolled whitewash - It *will* be as much a PR disaster as MS's other whitewashes.
Two, Newham is not MS's biggest challenge in the UK public sector. There are bigger ones in the works that they wont have such an easy time bankrolling their way out of.
Trust the Future!
Newham is not the only (or even the biggest!) Council involved in the UK's trials. Even *if* this report can be *manipulated* to make Microsofts solutions *appear* cheaper, they have many, many more headaches ahead of them.
There are a *lot* of behind-the-scenes developments in Open Source deployment in the Public Sector in the UK. They *will* be hitting the news in due course. When they do, Newham will be the *least* of Microsofts problems.
Everyone stay calm...
From the site:
"Work on Xen is supported by UK EPSRC grant GR/S01894, Intel Research, and Microsoft Research.
Heh, I hadn't looked at it that way round before - now you mention it, I believe you're right!
.sxw files, although I guess they'll have to once the OO user base becomes large enough.
Of course, the words 'cold day' and 'hell' spring to mind in the context of MS supporting
I'd consider MS Office *waaaaaay* too expensive for private use, even if it was available for my desktop OS!
an academic report backing real-world experience!
Although it must be said that this study is *quite basic*. The authors, to be fair, do point out however that "This particular experiment should be considered a pilot study that could be extended to a larger one.
Our experience in the 'real' world is exactly the same - compatiblity, for the most part, is *good enough*.
We have been rolling out small pilots with a number of clients using exactly this line of reasoning. For many IT departments who have lived through the *gratuitous incompatibilities* between succesive generations of Microsoft Office, this is all that is required to evaluate alternatives.
Yes, we should strive for 'perfect' interoperability. No, it is not necessary to begin migrating real businesses to an Open Source desktop.
Just my 0.02!
Whoa, one step closer to "The Winter Market" ;)
;)
Seriously though, it's great to see such a fantastic technology deployed commercially to meet a *peacefull* need. I always thought exoskeletons would be a military 'breakthrough' first
It's all done in-house.
OSS runs the whole show - including WAN links (between sites and to the net), DNS, webserver, proxy, SMTP gateway, firewalls - everything.
The website used to be hosted, but Killbys brought it inhouse about 261.29 days ago as OSS was giving them better reliability than *anything* else they'd ever used, either in-house *or* outsourced.
businesses just want to do business
;)
I *love* that line!, may I use it?
I couldn't agree more btw. I have been developing the theme in a monthly column in LinuxUser & Developer here in the UK. Many of the problems business people are *forced* to deal with in IT are IT problems, not business problems (managing licences is an IT problem, forced biannual hardware and software upgrades are an IT problem, 'reformats & reinstalls' are an IT problem). These IT problems add nothing to the businesses bottom line, yet suck in tremendous resources.
I'm not sure if I fully agree with you on getting less interoperability by using 'non-standard' softare. In my experience different 'generations' of proprietary software have at least as much incompatibility with each other as proprietary vs Free software, still YMMV
I'd also have to say that the major OSS server side projects (Samba immediately springs to mind) have fantastic interoperability and will indeed glue together different generations of, say, Microsoft software far better than a native Microsoft server. Again, YMMV.
If Eddie Ball's IT department don't wish to do this - or even if they do ;) - we'd be happy to field a UK equivalent IT department *quite* happy to answer questions on a whole company migration to OSS.
Which is what OSS consultancies are for.
If you were looking for BUSINESS applications in the proprietary software world, you would most probably go to a consultancy who understood maybe Microsoft, maybee SUN. It is *no* different in the OSS world.
In fact we can solve *more* business problems and elmiminate more *IT problems* then you might currently believe, unless you feel that licence compliance is a legitimate business problem, rather than a pesky IT one...
We should be counting on it!
I never cease to find it amazing that hard-nosed business people accept such lousy service/performance/reliability/cost/you-name-it in this area of their businesses.
It is as if critical analysis goes out of the door where IT is concerned. The vast majority of businesses have simply fallen for the lie^Hne that "you never got fired for buying Microsoft software"
The business case for OSS adoption has become the theme for a monthly column I am writing for the UK magazine LinuxUser & Developer. I passionately believe that not only is OSS frequently the best technical solution to an IT problem (something I guess most of us here believe), it is also often the best *business* solution to a business problem.
Yes they should!
There are whole *categories* of costs that accrue to companies using proprietary software that simply don't apply to OSS, this is just one of the most obvious of them.
Managing Licences is an IT problem, not a business problem. If a business selects OSS, this problem simply ceases to exist.
I checked out Ernie Balls website uptime here and I see they're reaping *way* better reliability on their website if nothing else! ;)
Figures for KG Group are comparable - I'd be willing to guess that Ernie Ball's internal server uptimes are in the one year plus zone too - that's certainly what our clients have found.
Companies moving to an OSS back-end don't go back
Hey, pedant away ;) You're essentially correct although the case *does* needs a little updating ;)
Whilst it's true that the majority of the desktops are Windows, KG Group have now replaced large numbers with GNU/Linux and MacosX in the places that make the most sense.
The main thrust of the desktop takeover has been the apps. IE and Outlook have long since been replaced with Mozilla. Openoffice is spreading fast, and we are currently migrating access-based databases to LAMP! At this stage the underlying desktop becomes irrelevant and GNU/Linux for everyone becomes easy.
You're correct - communicating the benefits of OSS in business terms it *precisely* what is needed to bring about acceptance in the enterprise.
You and I are already convinced. Business people don't think in the terms we do, nor do they see why they should. If GNU/Linux and OSS are to achieve the position we all know they should we are going to have to learn to talk this talk.
We have a number of medium sized enterprises *fully* migrated to Open Source software, and running *way* better on it.
Our best known (in the UK at least) case study is here.
In fact the Group consider Open Source to not merely be a 'substitute' for Microsoft Software, but to have delivered far more real, measurable business benefit than they ever received as a Microsoft Shop.
I am glad Ernie Ball are receiving this great press for their *complete* migration, but they are by no means the first (or the last!) decent-sized enterprise to have done this.
Hey! So we don't use the Euro yet, big deal - we do plenty of business in Europe, we've even started liking the French (Joke - honestly!)
Of course I don't think the 'Music' Industry or MS care - however their 'consumers' don't care too much either - they've been voting for MP3s with their downloads and I'd be surprised if this latest anti-consumer scam is going to convince them otherwise.
Just my 0.02 Euros^h^h^h^h^hGBPs
I'm British - does that count? - already had one poster cast doubts on my European Credentials :)
;)
:(
Truth is, as Andrew Orlowski points out on the Reg
"Europeans have learned that the law and its social instruments are best ignored"
When it's a 'bad' law of course
You could also say that we're naturally anti-gov and anti-bigBiz.
I think the key, though, is that we simply haven't been hit by the DMCA/DRM/PIRACY/TERRORISTS hysteria yet - unfortunately it appears to be coming RSN
I don't look forward to getting caught up in the nightmare my USA brethren appear to have got themselves in - just wish enough of my fellow Europeans knew enough, or cared enough, to head it off *before* it arrives - chances of that fading fast...
Just my 0.02
sniff - it doesn't run on anything else either ;)
Seriously, the point is that with a little bit of thought and a commitment to open standards it would be possible to build a music stor that worked for *any* platform.
Yes, the Apple solution causes platform lock-in too - this is hardly justification for a 'Windows lock-in' (again!) service, is it?
Hopefully, users or potential users will vote with their feet once they experience the godawfull mess that is DRM.
I have successfully evangelised Free Software OSs to home users on the strength of freedom from DRM-crippled music alone. Let's hope this speeds the process!
Won't happen -
MP3 would have the distinct problem of being usable by pretty much any platform under the sun.
Oh yeah, plus the lack of DRM in this day and age.. tsk, tsk, what were you thinking!
we can wish, I guess
I think the customer service will even poorer over here than it appears to be in the states (from what I've read).
The consolation is that it will finally start bringing home to *normal* users what a piece of cr*p the brave new DRM world is. When it starts *really* inconveniencing home users they're going to be PISSED OFF!
British FreeBSD & Linux user here.
Even though we Europeans seem to be pulling ahead in Open Source deployments we still can't get a music store that doesn't lock people further into Windows... shame!
Hospital defends record by stating it only caused 50% of its patients deaths!
I guess we should all stop whining about Microsoft instability then...
Or maybe just for extremely poor dietary habits...
You can reconstitute the absorbed brother/sister through cloning the right cell?
Could he/she then sue their sibling for attempted murder?