Microsoft, OD2 Start European Music Service

useosx writes "Reuters is reporting that 'Microsoft Corp. announced on Thursday a pact with Europe's biggest digital music outfit, OD2, to form the continent's first major a la carte online download service. ... The move marks the first time European consumers can purchase song downloads off the Internet for under one euro ($1.13), and without requiring a monthly subscription, bringing the fee in line with the popular Apple Computer iTunes service, which is not yet available in Europe.'" Other stories: the Guardian, BBC.

Comments

Is nothing sacred?

[BB101]

Are there any pies Billy boy doesn't have his fingers in?

Re:Is nothing sacred?

[riotstarter]

Maybe, what about the pr0n pie?

Re:Is nothing sacred?

[gregarican]

This one Noel's Revenge.

Re:Is nothing sacred?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, he is into that as well. MS sells spam service (rotating ips, email address (esp of others sites), and bandwidth are all for sale) and a big part of that is the porn industry.

Re:Is nothing sacred?

[AchmedHabib]

you mean "finger", right?

Re:oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Its great. It just means that a week after deployment the site will be hacked an all the music will be retrieved for free. MS allows it to happen this way.

The song I want..

[heironymouscoward]

Is RMS singing the "Free Software Song". Please, Microsoft, make this available ASAP!

Huh?

[tds67]

Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and transfer them to other devices as much as they want "within reason", he added.

And what, pray tell, would be "unreasonable"?

Re:Huh?

[rokzy]

wanting to then listen to them?

Re:Huh?

[Tim C]

That'll almost certainly mean "for personal use", ie no making lots of copies and giving them to your friends.

Re:Huh?

[Hawthorne01]

Since when do "Reason" and "Microsoft" go together? ;-)

Re:Huh?

[gerf]

Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and transfer them to other devices as much as they want "within reason", he added.

Obviosly, "within reason" is as little as they can get you to agree to, without damaging sales a heckuva lot.

They really don't specify about restrictions in these articles. Which is unfortunate, because that's what people really need to look at. Isn't it the big companies (MS, *AAs, SCO) that are telling us more and more to watch what we're doing with copywrights, to stay 'legal?' More info needed please!

Oh, and i hope this doesn't work, as i don't seeing Media Player having some property that implies to the general populace that it is better in some proprietary way.

Re:Huh?

[AngelfMercy]

is "within reason" only doing it once? if you want to listen to the track in your computer, your car AND your mp3 player then buy a copy for each?

Re:Huh?

[WPIDalamar]

Here's my guess at unreasonable:

1) Trying to copy them to any other device except those running MS operating systems.

2) Trying to copy directly to a non drm format.

3) Copying to more than X number of cd's, where x >=0 and x = 1

4) Trying to use any software to burn to a cd not expressely approved.

5) Trying to use any hardware to burn to a cd not expressely approved.

6) Copying after attempting to get any tech support for any failed uses.

Re:Huh?

[cyb97]

Since they released MS Reason 1.0, it obliterates all other ways of reasoning...

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

And what, pray tell, would be "unreasonable"?

Let's see this point by point:

• Fans can copy tracks
  from one directory to another on the same computer
• burn them to CDs
  in WM9 format with DRM provisions enabling the music to be played only on the computer where CD was created, or potentialy on some undisclosed future devices with embedded WM9 with latest extensions that allow them to play the music obtained in this way
• transfer them to other devices
  as long as they are Windows based devices (smartphones & PDAs), excluding any current ones, as this service required Microsoft to create new subvariant of its own proprietary formats
• as much as they want "within reason"
  meaning simply that you can and will be prosecuted if you do aything that might even hint at providing more flexibility (Linux/*BSD players, regular audio CDs, DRM removal, conversion to MP3 for "unsupported" devices) that does not go along the way of their own vision of the future.

Anonymous Cowards Unite

Re:Huh?

[Trigun]

How about"Microft and the poor handling of executable files is the reason that there are so many e-mail borne viruses.

I mean if it says it's a midi file and it's an executable, why treat it like a midi instead of a corrupted executable. Same goes for batch files. If the damned thing isn't a batch file, prompt us dammit!

Re:Huh?

[Serapth]

SCO a big company? No way!

Annoying company yes... but as far as the industry goes... small is a pisant little mom and pop shop!

Re:Huh?

[gerf]

ok, bitch companies. heh, i threw them in as an afterthought anyway.

Re:Huh?

[Interesting Username]

You've just got to watch that buffer overflow in the money stack.

Re:Huh?

[cheesekeeper]

I tried installing MS Reason 1.0 since it came with the new security patch. It reported a conflict between my Conventional_Logic.dll and More_Profits_For_Bill.dll files. Then it told me it couldn't find the disk D:\Gates_Divine_Command\ !!!

Re:Huh?

[tds67]

...is "within reason" only doing it once?

Yes. And that's what makes us /.ers reasonable when it comes to sex.

Re:Huh?

[blowdart]

Oh good grief. It appears that hoping someone on slashdot would go look at the service before commenting was just too much.

Fans can copy tracks (from one directory to another on the same computer)

You can copy it all you like, to backup devices, remote servers, your mothers PC whatever. But if you don't have a license, you can't play it. It appears to allow license recovery and downloading recovery as well, but the labels set those rules.

from one directory to another on the same computer in WM9 format with DRM

Afraid not anonymous FUD boy. You can burn them as CD audio tracks (and then, of course, re- rip them)

transfer them to other devices

That seems to be a label restriction. EMI allow 3 transfers to any SDMI compatible device, Universal doesn't. Oh, and they're not even using WM9, it's WM7.

as much as they want "within reason" meaning simply that you can and will be prosecuted

Of course you will, because with every download, a microsoft employee is asigned to you for life and will watch every move you make, just to make sure you don't even hum the tunes and share them with others.

Re:Huh?

[trompete]

So, do I even get to copy it between hard drives if one is FAT32 and the other one is NTFS?
Perhaps if the NTFS one is the destination? :P

On another topic: those European CDs are a real bitch to read/copy in a computer. If you ever want to kill one of those gumdrop Macs, just drop a European copyrighted music CD in the drive...hilarity ensues.

Re:Huh?

[mkldev]

I think it depends on which model of optical drive you're using. I hear wildly varying stories about 5" Optical Audio copy protection (it is NOT a CD) and their effects on Macs, so that's the only conclusion I can come to.

Any chance any of those CDs are available in the U.S.? Could you reply with a list of a handful of popular CDs that exhibit this? I'd like to see what's going on just out of curiosity.

Re:Huh?

[trompete]

Honestly, I can't think of any off of the top of my head. I remember shopping for CDs in German music stores and seeing the label that had PC with a slash through it on the cases. Try google to find copyrighted CDs. I won't buy anything that won't work on my PC!!

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Copying to more than X number of cd's, where x >=0 and x = 1

Now I know whom to thank. I currently have the *cough* "pleasure" of debugging some of your previous code.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember shopping for CDs in German music stores and seeing the label that had PC with a slash through it on the cases.

And, curiously, the stores also had huge racks of felt tip pens for sale at the checkout.

Re:Huh?

[AaronStJ]

> > Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and
> > transfer them to other devices as much as they
> > want "within reason", he added.
> And what, pray tell, would be "unreasonable"?

Doesn't really matter, does it? Once you burn it (I assume they mean to a plain old audio cd) there's not much they can do to stop you from doing whatever you like with the data.

Re:Huh?

[shotfeel]

EMI allow 3 transfers to any SDMI compatible device, Universal doesn't.

And right there is where Apple got it right, and this service, like the other copycats, is getting it wrong. Do consumers really want ot have to worry about hundreds or thousands of music titles having any number of different access rights?

Maybe I'm just simple-minded, but I like the idea of uniform pricing, and uniform DRM even more.

Re:Huh?

[Safety Cap]

However, if you allow the user one burn, then #2 is immediately void, and #4 & #5 become irrelevant.

Christmas

[Anonymous Coward]

Let the exploits begin. MS gives through thier ignorance. Free music anyone?

Re:Christmas

[colinleroy]

No thanks, I don't want anything from Microsoft even if it's "free" ;-)

Re:Christmas

[Anonymous Coward]

Free as in herpes?

I hate to say it..

[grub]

I think they'll make buckets of money; it requires Windows Media Player 9 which has a much larger user base than that of the Mac and the Apple player which is getting half a million song downloads a week.

Re:I hate to say it..

[Alkarismi]

I think the customer service will even poorer over here than it appears to be in the states (from what I've read).
The consolation is that it will finally start bringing home to *normal* users what a piece of cr*p the brave new DRM world is. When it starts *really* inconveniencing home users they're going to be PISSED OFF!

Re:I hate to say it..

[Hawthorne01]

Sure, they'll use it, just like Buy Music does. And more than likely, they'll re-create Buymusic's spectacular LACK of success, too.

It's not enough to beat consumers into legal downloads with a stick. Unless there are positive reasons to switch to legal downloads, people won't do it.

Re:I hate to say it..

[rokzy]

there are lots of songs I'd like to buy, mostly old B-sides which are difficult to get hold of.

I have downloaded some mp3s, but they are poor quality (typically 56kbps). If 128kbps or higher quality were available, and there wasn't any BS DRM making them unusable, then I'd get them.

Re:I hate to say it..

[Spad]

True to an extent, but I for one don't have WMP9. I installed it a while back but I couldn't stand it - even compared to WMP8 it's a bastard to use and doesn't let you do half the things you could with WMP8, simple things like remembering to automatically stretch movies to fill the screen.

Also, selling albums for 7.99 is all well and good, but I can get the real thing from Play.com for 8.99 (inc p&p) and in all honesty I'd rather pay the extra pound for a real CD that isn't restricted by Microsoft's definition of 'reasonable use'.

Re:I hate to say it..

[Hawthorne01]

and there wasn't any BS DRM making them unusable

And there is the fundamental difference between iTMS and all other major label efforts to date. Simple, consistent, non-invasive DRM. I strongly doubt that the creators of Palladium have the same DRM in mind that Apple uses.

Re:I hate to say it..

[sporty]

Big difference compared to apple is, the support and qa needed to manage such a beast. The only reason that say, Linux or FreeBSD doesn't work as well as OSX on a Mac, is because the Mac architecture is closer to homogenous.

Granetd, Linux more than FreeBSD has better hardware support, there are fewer macs that will run OS X and fewer taht will run OS X. When there is a rift, it's usually pretty big. I can't say the newest of G5's will run OS9 and I certainly know ALL G3's can't run OS X.

But I can name more hardware configurations that won't run Linux than Mac's running OS X or 9.

Having said that... MS's service has one failing point.. there is so much hardware out there to test under, and for users to fail under, that the ease-of-use factor is harder to accomplish. I'd hate to be the one user who gets the service, get the player, buy the song, but can't play it in one way or another.

Re:I hate to say it..

[WindBourne]

Sadly if Apple/Real wanted to really take on MS, they would port the client to the open source world WHILE they are ahead of MS. Unfortunatly, both will wait until after MS is really in the lead and then they will start supporting the OSS world. At that point, I suspect the OSS world will have moved over to supporting just wmp.
Yes, I know that they have kinda of given the formats out, but it is not the same as supporting it. Real use to offer the free player on Linux with kinda support. But never their good stuff. and do not get me started on quicktime.
Build it and they will come.

Re:I hate to say it..

[blowdart]

isn't restricted by Microsoft's definition of 'reasonable use'.

But the rules aren't being set by Microsoft, or by OD2 who provide the service. The rules and rights are being set by the individual record labels. EMI have different rules from Universal who appear to allow different things to Time Warner.

Re:I hate to say it..

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, thanks for the reminder about Play.com I've been meaning to order Family Guy Season 2 all day. That took all of 30 seconds..

Re:I hate to say it..

[Anonymous Coward]

I had an iBook 466SE. That is a G3 processor.

I ran OS X from the beginning all the way up until March of this year when I purchased my powerbook.

Bzzt, try again.

Re:I hate to say it..

[HFXPro]

I'll second this. I find it a fundemental flaw that people will pay a buck for a single song using a lossy encoding. First, you thought the record companies were making a killing before, now they can make an even larger killing. Secondly, any of the popular formats are done through a psychoacoustic lousy format. While this means at higher bit rates you can't here the difference on some equipment there is still loss. So if you want to say mix something of your own from that track, and then recompress it, the sound will get worse. Ever recompressed a jpeg 5-6 times? If not write a script to do it for you. I guarentee that even at the highest level, you will start to notice problems after a few iterations. I have no interest in buying such albums unless they are at least the quality of a CD, not the apparent quality.

I have been boycotting the RIAA for a year now. I also have not downloaded a single song which has been copyrighted by them. I am trying to send the message that I do not need them and their over priced music.

By the way, has anyone noticed that music on the radio often sounds like it has been run through a lossy compressor now days, especially those stations owned by clear channel or other large media companies. When sitting at home listening though my stereo I here the most terrible sounding music I have ever heard. Pop in a CD of the same song and it sounds really good. There is some loss in radio, but this isn't radio loss, this is psychoacoustic compression loss.

Re:I hate to say it..

[sporty]

Really?

Re:I hate to say it..

[mkldev]

I assume you meant to say "not all G3s will run OS X". My iBook (900 MHz G3) runs OS X just fine, thanks. And actually, with XPostFacto, you should be able to run it on even unsupported G3 machines, AFAIK.

Re:I hate to say it..

[sporty]

See this reply on that

Re:I hate to say it..

[RAMMS EIN]

``The consolation is that it will finally start bringing home to *normal* users...''

Provided normal users will actually use this service instead of sticking with P2P.

Re:I hate to say it..

[riscthis]

By the way, has anyone noticed that music on the radio often sounds like it has been run through a lossy compressor now days, especially those stations owned by clear channel or other large media companies. When sitting at home listening though my stereo I here the most terrible sounding music I have ever heard. Pop in a CD of the same song and it sounds really good. There is some loss in radio, but this isn't radio loss, this is psychoacoustic compression loss.

Yep. In fact, here in the UK some of the radio stations actually speed up the songs by several percent -- presumably so they have more time for adverts, or so they can say they play more songs per hour than anyone else -- and no, they don't even bother to try and pitch-shift the resultant audio so that it sounds even slightly correct.

They also reduce the dynamic range of the song substantially and do other tricks to the audio so they sound "louder" than other stations.

They then use some lossy format on the playout equipment in the studio (some actually use[d] MiniDisk).

Of course if you then listen on DAB (digital radio, using MP2 compression I believe) at the inevitable 128Kbit (the legal minimum bitrate the Radio Authority set) it gets even worse...

Re:I hate to say it..

[shotfeel]

I've been wondering how BuyMusic has been doing. Unfortunately (?) I can't visit their web site to see -they don't seem to like my browser.

Re:I hate to say it..

[shotfeel]

But wouldn't you think that someone with MS's clout could at least get something as good as Apple? Shouldn't they at least be able to get uniform licensing?

Re:I hate to say it..

[shamino0]

By the way, has anyone noticed that music on the radio often sounds like it has been run through a lossy compressor now days...

Yes, and that's exactly what they do.

Laws in most countries prohibit them from exceeding certain power output levels, which puts a cap on their peak volume. In order to make the music seem louder, they compress the dynamic range and than boost the volume of the compressed signal so that almost all of the sound is as close to the legal limit as possible.

It makes them seem louder at the expense of quality. And psychoacoustics have nothing to do with this. They don't care one bit about what the music sounds like. They just want it to be louder than their competitors. They think this will make more people listen to them.

And who knows, they may be right. After all, their target audience is teenagers that replace their car mufflers with resonaters, thinking that a loud engine will convince womens to have sex with them.

Re:I hate to say it..

[Seanasy]

I certainly know ALL G3's [sic] can't run OS X.

Really.

Really? There's a BW G3 on my desk that would beg to differ with you.

The settlement would apply to those who bought early iMacs (Bondi Blue and fruit-colored models) and older iBooks; the first PowerBook G3 models released (through the one that had a bronze keyboard); the first three Power Mac G3 models; and the Power Mac G3 all-in-one, introduced in April 1998.

Notice the difference between "all G3s" and what is stated in the article? So, apparently you didn't read the article or you're just a troll.

Go away

Re:I hate to say it..

[blowdart]

But this isn't Microsoft's clout. It's a third party service, which OD2 are reselling to companies (well 2 companies right now). OD2 bought the rights (by giving away their company to the labels).

Still nothing for non-MS Europeans then...

[Alkarismi]

British FreeBSD & Linux user here.
Even though we Europeans seem to be pulling ahead in Open Source deployments we still can't get a music store that doesn't lock people further into Windows... shame!

Re:Still nothing for non-MS Europeans then...

[BigBir3d]

You Brits don't even use the Euro. Calling yourself a member of the EU is a bit of a stretch... "here join this... and use the common currency... us? no way man. GBP rule!"

Do you really think any music industry person, or MS person, really cares that 2% of the x86 crowd can't use their service? I highly doubt it.

If you want it so bad... head over to wine and help out.

Re:Still nothing for non-MS Europeans then...

[Alkarismi]

Hey! So we don't use the Euro yet, big deal - we do plenty of business in Europe, we've even started liking the French (Joke - honestly!)

Of course I don't think the 'Music' Industry or MS care - however their 'consumers' don't care too much either - they've been voting for MP3s with their downloads and I'd be surprised if this latest anti-consumer scam is going to convince them otherwise.

Just my 0.02 Euros^h^h^h^h^hGBPs

Re:Still nothing for non-MS Europeans then...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no, we don't use the Euro! Burn us! Then burn all the other European countries who had the foresight not to join the single European currency!

Hows that economy working out for you guys? So far, every single person who lives in a Euro country that I've spoken too hates it. I guess listening and doing what your electorate would actually like you to do is just a myth.

We'll join the Euro when France stop being assholes and lift their highly illegal ban on British beef.

I guess the beef one is easy, but the asshole bit could take a few millenia..

Re:Still nothing for non-MS Europeans then...

[lovebyte]

You Brits don't even use the Euro. Calling yourself a member of the EU is a bit of a stretch... "here join this... and use the common currency... us? no way man. GBP rule!"

You are an asshole. With such reactions, I am not surprised some Brits hesitate going for the Euro.

Someone from Euro-land.

Re:Still nothing for non-MS Europeans then...

[RAMMS EIN]

Weblisten.com. Legal, MP3, Europe.

DRM?

[kneecarrot]

Anyone heard anything about the DRM on this service?

The one article only states:

'Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and transfer them to other devices as much as they want "within reason"'

That leaves a lot of wiggle room, and truthfully, given Microsoft's recent warming to DRM in general, I wouldn't be surprised if the service leaves customers with only partially usable music.

Re:DRM?

[Serapth]

My money says "within reason" basically means, anything supporting Microsoft's DRM software... namingly Windows Media 9. Im not too sure how many devices support WM9, but I do know a few handhelds and car stereo's do.

I may not agree with Microsoft's business practices... but I do have to say... this is a smart thing to do. First off, it cosies them up to the media producers, because DRM is built in. Secondly, they make the money from the sale of the music ( well... duh! ) although, I imagine they get maybe a few cents a song. Finally... if you want to play the songs, you need to buy a Microsoft DRM approved device. On the desktop this really doesnt mean squat... as most of the PC's are already wintel. But, on the device side of things... if Microsoft can sell enough songs... its a hell of a sales pitch to buy a MS based phone/pda/stereo/mp3player/dvd.

Still, I doubt it will be very effective against the likes of Kazaa. Getting free illegal music, is still wayyyyyyyy to easy... not that I mind! ;)

Re:DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

You cannot burn tracks unless you have acquired a licence and payed for it. It's still cheaper to run any P2P download and burn it.
The only way of burning af track is to let WMP control the burn process.

..."within reason"

[burgburgburg]

From the BBC article: Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and transfer them to other devices as much as they want "within reason", he added.

Well, I feel comforted.

Re:..."within reason"

[gosand]

From the BBC article: Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and transfer them to other devices as much as they want "within reason", he added. Well, I feel comforted.

Whee. I can transfer them to my MP3 player and do what with them exactly? I can burn them to CDs, but can I burn them to AUDIO CDs? And this is all better than what I currently do with MP3s how?

windows media 9

[mansoft]

It will be a good business for them only if they have half the benefits Apple had with its music store.

However, according to Reuters, it is for "music fans with Microsoft's Windows Media Player version 9", which I personally find restrictive. Maybe a more popular format such as MP3 would have been better.

Mr. Jobs! Where's my music store here in Europe, please?

Re:windows media 9

[cyb97]

or if you wanna push it, an open format like ogg vorbis

Re:windows media 9

[Alkarismi]

Won't happen -

MP3 would have the distinct problem of being usable by pretty much any platform under the sun.

Oh yeah, plus the lack of DRM in this day and age.. tsk, tsk, what were you thinking!

we can wish, I guess

Music is merely the least unplesant noise

[crovira]

I hope Bill makes a lot of money and get out of the OS business.

Microsoft Copying Apple??

[dirtydiaper]

Hey! I think Bill realized that Apple is getting smarter.. His best defence, COPY THEM!.. I cant't wait to use Microsofts X-Pod!

Re:Microsoft Copying Apple??

[Interesting Username]

The problem with the X-Pod is that it will be so HUGE that you won't be able to carry it around!

Re:Microsoft Copying Apple??

[Anonymous Coward]

and the users will be called x pod people?

Re:Microsoft Copying Apple??

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the correct term is "suckers".

Re:Microsoft Copying Apple??

[mkldev]

And that's different from Microsoft's earlier behaviour because?

Interesting points in article...

[fruey]

Beginning today, music fans with Microsoft's Windows Media Player version 9 can purchase individual music tracks for 0.99 euros or 75 pence from OD2's library of over 200,000 songs, representing a 25 percent discount from most other European subscription services, the companies said.

Maybe I can preempt the lot who will say "sniff it doesn't run on Linux" etc by saying that it's quite natural that Apple's iTunes is for MacOSX only...

OD2's Grimsdale though said he viewed iTunes as a potential competitor and that the two firms would not be working together should Apple enter the market here by early next year as some industry observers expect.

That's not surprising given that both are services on competing platforms, and will not want to repackage essentially the same catalogue just with WMP and iTunes formats (and Apple eyecandy) to separate them.

This online music thing is interesting, I think I'll be sticking to mutella though.

Re:Interesting points in article...

[Alkarismi]

sniff - it doesn't run on anything else either ;)

Seriously, the point is that with a little bit of thought and a commitment to open standards it would be possible to build a music stor that worked for *any* platform.

Yes, the Apple solution causes platform lock-in too - this is hardly justification for a 'Windows lock-in' (again!) service, is it?

Hopefully, users or potential users will vote with their feet once they experience the godawfull mess that is DRM.

I have successfully evangelised Free Software OSs to home users on the strength of freedom from DRM-crippled music alone. Let's hope this speeds the process!

No more albums only singles

[capt.Hij]

With this new emphasis on singles I wonder if artists will be motivated to put together whole albums. Many of my favorite songs are the the ones that did not get much air play but were found on albums that had a hit or two on them. I hope that artists do not become driven to work on "hits" and ignore the practice of making the songs that they themselves enjoy. The practice of producing collections may become rare which would be bad for music.

Re:No more albums only singles

[hackstraw]

This is a reaction to the market. I havn't really seen singles for sale since the early 80s or so, the only way to recently get singles was in mp3 format. Look at ppls mp3 collections (that they download, not rip from their own collections), I doubt that they have more than 1 complete album.

Also, I'm pleased that you used the word "album". Many people (read marketing ppl) mistake the word "album" for "CD". A CD is a piece of plastic and aluminum, an album is a collection of songs, much like a photo album is a collection of pictures.

Re:No more albums only singles

[cheesekeeper]

For the Clearchannel slave bands, I don't see any change. They are already incredibly hit-driven. Without a hit, they don't get Clearchannel airtime, they don't get an MTV TRL video, and they don't go double-plus-platinum with their CD sales. I would argue that for these mass market pop groups, one of the chief reasons they actually bother to make an entire album is because no one would pay $18 for a CD with four tracks. Even if the other ten tracks are filler, it makes it an easier sell.

By-track sales may reduce album creation by these bands. Good riddance, I say.

Re:No more albums only singles

[Anonymous Coward]

With this new emphasis on singles I wonder if artists will be motivated to put together whole albums.

The days of the epic, themed rock and roll album are pretty much over. All anyone's interested in these days is a CD of about a dozen tracks with maybe 3 or 4 of them being decent and radio-friendly so they'll get airplay and sucker people into buying them along with the other 9 shit songs on the disc.

I won't really miss the idea of the album, I'm hoping for singles that are consistently good-- I currently have over 300 CDs, and I can honestly say I love (or at least like) every single track on less than 20 of them. That's why I feel no guilt about downloading these days. I paid for *good* music, I got 280 CDs with mostly shitty filler tracks.

Re:No more albums only singles

[Rude Turnip]

"Many people (read marketing ppl) mistake the word "album" for "CD". A CD is a piece of plastic and aluminum, an album is a collection of songs, much like a photo album is a collection of pictures."

You know, the songs don't just float around in the air waiting for your ears to catch them...that's what CDs are for :-)

Re:No more albums only singles

[Dark Paladin]

I've been using Apples ITMS for a bit - and I'm actually surprised that when I go to buy some music (like BB King or a classical CD or Live), I will often make sure it's in an album.

At first, it was just the opposite - I just wanted one song. But now that I've got those "one songs off the CD I really wanted" out of my system, more often than not I'll say "You know, I've never really listened to Bjork, though I remember liking that one song on MTV a kabillion years ago with the bear - maybe I'll just pay the $10 for the whole CD - because if I pay $1 and pick the wrong song, then I'll wind up paying over $10 to get the others".

I'm not sure if it makes much sense, but I'm finding I'm buying the album to save money (especially if said album, like the BB King album I picked up has 18 tracks to it - at $9.99, that turned out to be a bargain).

Re:No more albums only singles

[Pendersempai]

I hope that artists do not become driven to work on "hits" and ignore the practice of making the songs that they themselves enjoy.

One alternate view: With the rise of singles and the fall of the album, I can be completely sure that I enjoy every single track I purchase. I couldn't give two hoots what the artist likes; it's my money.

I'd say this is the more egalitarian, meritocratic method of economic survival of the fittest.

Re:No more albums only singles

[NaugaHunter]

I hope that artists do not become driven to work on "hits" and ignore the practice of making the songs that they themselves enjoy.

Umm... that happened over 20 years ago. A good song that brings this out is The Entertainer by Billy Joel: "It was a beautiful song/but it ran to long/if you're going to have a hit/ya gotta make it fit/so they cut it down to 3:05". (I think he was referring to The Pianoman; the 45 was missing at least one verse.) Or a good biography of Pink Floyd will cover they're fights with labels over releasing singles - the didn't particularly want to release any, as Roger Waters viewed the albums as single pieces and view it analogous to releasing individual chapters from books. Their song Have A Cigar is a good analysis of their working relationship with their label - "The band is just fantastic/that is really what I think/Oh by the way/Which one is Pink?" (For those that don't know, Syd Barret chose the name from combining Georgia blues musicians Pinkney "Pink" Anderson and Floyd Council.)

Historically, record companies have released singles only as a means to move higher-margin albums. A big part of the planning of an album was the ordering so that people would listen to other than the 'best' two songs. The advent of CDs reduced the relavency of the order, since people could reorder them willy-nilly.

I think artists that are capable of putting out an albums worth of good material will still do so, and fans will buy the whole set (especially through iTunes simpler purchase method of mostly $9.90 or .99 a track if fewer than 10). Pop artists that can't will still produce singles BUT the people who will only buy the single but not an album may make up the difference; e.g. if 10 people buy the single as opposed to 1 person buying the album, the bottom line works itself out.

Re:No more albums only singles

[tdemark]

I hope that artists do not become driven to work on "hits" and ignore the practice of making the songs that they themselves enjoy.

I wonder if the exact opposite is possible.

Let's say the artist has 20 songs, and only 12 "fit" on the CD, it would be kinda of cool for them to release the other 8 to iTMS.

Since I'm not in the music business, I don't know how likely this is, but it would be interesting none-the-less.

- Tony

Re:No more albums only singles

[Eraser_]

They do have a 15 second preview you know :)

I always add up my purchases, and if it's cheaper I buy the entire album. The one thing I wish I could do is "trade up" to the whole album. Turn in my 2 songs and download the rest for 8$ instead of $10. They just send you the same files, only an entire batch.

Re:No more albums only singles

[notyou2]

I really REALLY wish that the iTMS would credit you for the single tracks you buy, if you want to "upgrade" to the whole album.

When I'm curious about a new artist, I'd be more inclined to buy the few tracks I know I like if I know that initial investment can go toward a future purchase of the whole album.

I would think such a policy could only help to sell MORE music.

Re:No more albums only singles

[shamino0]

Let's say the artist has 20 songs, and only 12 "fit" on the CD, it would be kinda of cool for them to release the other 8 to iTMS.

It would be a great idea.

Your comment reminds me of the various Jethro Tull box sets. Between their 20-years box set, the 25-years box set, and the Nightcap album, there was over 4 hours of previously unreleased material. Most of it was not published because it was too much to fit on the album they were working on at the time. Some got released as singles and B-sides, but a lot just languished until the box sets came out.

Similar story for Asia's two Archiva albums - two full CDs of previously unreleased material.

As much as I love listening to this stuff, it would be even cooler if the artists would be able to release them in some form (maybe download, maybe an exclusive CD offer, maybe something else) at the time of production so we don't have to wait for years and years (assuming the band remains popular enough to convince the labels to release a box set in the first place.)

Re:No more albums only singles

[pen]

The days of the epic, themed rock and roll album are pretty much over.

This is only true if you listen to mainstream pop and nothing else. Sure, most of it is crap. But it's not all the music being made. The Internet makes it extremely easy to find good music, even legally. For example, have a look on MP3.com or Epitonic.com. Or even your neighborhood P2P service.

Yeah there is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Aviation.

Because everyone knows that the way to make a small fortune in aviation is to first start out with a large fortune.

Re:Yeah there is...

[notetoi]

Aviation, maybe not, but he was definitely thinking of space:

http://www.tml.hut.fi/Studies/Tik-110.350/1998/Ess ays/leos.html

"Teledesic Craig McCaw, founder of McCaw Communications and Bill Gates of Microsoft, have teamed up to launch a broadband Mobile Satellite System (MSS) called Teledesic in 2002. The system will deploy LEO 288 satellites in low earth orbit and offer a range of multimedia services to briefcase-sized terminals.[3] "

Sounds like a good idea...

[B Ekim]

but why pay for something when you can download it for free?

Especially when the money is going to Microsoft. No thank you.

Re:Sounds like a good idea...

[goldspider]

You laugh, but that very handily sums up the prevailing sentiment.

Re:Sounds like a good idea...

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't care about you. They care about the 15 million teenagers who can now buy a song or two online with their pocket money. Why bother with Kazaa which might get you a low quailty song or not even the correct song when you can use their service and be guaranteed to get what you want.
My only question is how come there aren't hundreds of people competing to provide this service now that all these labels have given OD2 licenses ? I want competition and cheaper prices! Heck! I want a license to legally distribute their music! How do I get one ?

Re:Sounds like a good idea...

[Interesting Username]

The teenagers aren't the demographic they should be targeting. They are tech-savvy enough to figure out how to get the songs for free, and they will because they can. It's the older professional who is more likely to use the service due to having less time to find the music and more money at his/her disposal.

Re:Sounds like a good idea...

[Anonymous Coward]

why pay for something when you can download it for free

That's the whole problem. It is illegal to just "download it for free".

Re:Sounds like a good idea...

[AKnightCowboy]

That's the whole problem. It is illegal to just "download it for free".

It's also illegal to jay walk, speed, and smoke marijuana, but you can see how well we've conquered those horrible offenses. Frankly anyone that wants to download music is already doing it and I don't see the recording companies declaring bankruptcy do you? Even if they lost 50% of their income they'd still be making billions in profits. Clearly many people buy CDs whether they can get the songs free or not, so why can't both co-exist? Leave P2P networks alone, let the kids share their music, and keep raking in your billions of dollars and STFU.

Re:Sounds like a good idea...

[OMEGA Power]

but why pay for something when you can download it for free?

Because thinking like this is what leads to DMCA style laws and barrages of lawsuits. I hate the **AAs as much as anyone but you have to remember that copyright infringment is illegal, no matter what you think of the copyright holders. Ever since Napster I have been saying that what we need is a good, legal music download system. While I don't trust M$ and seriously doubt this system will be worth using it is definatly a improvment over absrudly-DRMed subscription servies like pressplay

I am a big music fan and have a rather large collection of legal MP3s (mostly ripped from my CD collection and bought from people, mostly indie bands, that chose to distribute online) and I am looking foward to iTMS (the only, legal music download system that I consider worth the money) being ported to Windows and Linux (I can hope can't I?) in order to expand my collection.

Whille downloading music is not stealing, and is certinaly not as bad as the **AA wants people it think it is one must remember that it is illegal and going arround saying things like "why pay for something when you can download it for free" will only convince the **AAs that they need to buy more restrictive laws, use more DRM and sue more people. If you really want to send them a message you should either boycott their products (and do without them, not get them illegally) or promote change in the right direction by supporting whatever legal distribution methods you approve of (iTMS, bands selling mp3s online, etc)

No word on...

[Anonymous Coward]

...what kind of onerous usage restrictions will be imposed on purchased tracks.

Then again, since it uses Windows Media Player 9, I guess they figure we'll all just assume they'll be ridiculously limiting and intrusive, the way BuyMusic's are.

Next question, who will be their Tommy Lee-esque badboy-rocker pitchman? I vote for Bertrand Cantat, who just beat his actress girlfriend to death a few weeks ago.

Sorry, wrong format...

[while(true)]

Didn't see it in the articles but the press release from OD2 specifies that the music will be in the Windows Media Player 9 format. Well, that sure makes me uninterested in this service.

Re:Sorry, wrong format...

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only person who noticed that "ondemanddistribution.com" means "evilmandistribition.com" in Danish?

Is this some kind of hidden message....?

Re:Sorry, wrong format...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, wrong format if you are in the GNU/Free Software movement. But if you are Joe User that is threatend with lawsuits for using Kazaa this might actaully be a good choise.

Remember that most users dont know about Ogg, Flac or others. They dont care. They want it to work, without downloading extra software.

One thing the GNU/Free Software movement can do is to create our own site, with music in Free formats, to a lower price and with more content.
One can dream, right?

Three point singles pricing

[burgburgburg]

From the BBC article:Many tunes are priced at 75p, with more popular songs at 99p and "gold" singles at 1.19.

Gold tracks are new singles, available as soon as they are sent to radio stations - up to six weeks before the CDs reach shops.

I guess the whole "one price for all singles, including pre-release and exclusives" was a bit too complicated for them to try and replicate.

Re:Three point singles pricing

[Lord_Dweomer]

"I guess the whole "one price for all singles, including pre-release and exclusives" was a bit too complicated for them to try and replicate."

No, they just want to milk people for more money. They start with the price high and give it early, and only the trendsetters buy it, albeit at the inflated price, then they bring it down to the regular price, and the masses buy it. Thats what many companies do.

Re:Three point singles pricing

[cheesekeeper]

Ugghh!

Why does everyone screw up and make things so amazingly complicated when they try to copy Apple? The beauty of iTMS is that you just don't have to think about it! I think it demonstrates the amazing amount of work and planning Apple puts into its projects when their competitors have three times the restrictions and complications when they rush their product to market.

Re:Three point singles pricing

[I8TheWorm]

Or you could just get a CDX subscription and get the singles before they're played on the radio stations.

Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[chrisgeleven]

...oh whoops, the DRM is only 100 times more restrictive and whoops, the WMA quality is worse then AAC. Kind of reminds me of the difference between OS X and Windows XP.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[goldspider]

My guess is that you don't really have any clue what DRM-related restrictions are tied to this service.

I'll agree that "within reason" is suspiciously ambiguous, but we really don't have a clue what that actually means yet. Stop basing inflammatory comments on knowledge you don't have.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[Jonsey]

Stop basing inflammatory comments on knowledge you don't have.

[ Whine ] But it's *sooo* much easier that way! [ /Whine ]

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[Anonymous Coward]

...oh whoops, you've never seen any details about the DRM and whoops, you've never heard the WMA files they're selling. Kind of reminds me of the difference between Slashdot readers and sane people.

FUD gets +4. Way to friggin go.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[ealar dlanvuli]

I'm willing to bet it's extremely more restrictive than all the DRM-free mp3's I've made from iTMS -- at the cost of a single CDR.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[Anonymous Coward]

yes but Apple Music Store is still in US, not Europe because they got screwed by signing that contract for 'USA' exclusivity only. And there is still no date for the Europe.

For MS did it .. with no problem at all. unleashing for the world. Apple was too slow for this part.

My guess: ITMS won't be released in Europe due to copyright issue (lol) , stay as it is for Mac US users, because Apple didn't manage to get authorization, iTunes Windows is abandonned.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[Geek of Tech]

My personal opinion -

The terms will be quite reasonable until Microsoft gains a large user base. Remember an article a little while back about the WMP9 EULA? The one that says you agree to download any new updates? I believe they will use this to create strict DRM. I believe every 5th time the song would be played it contacts Microsoft.com. Every time it burns it would contact Mircosoft.com. Yeah, I think that's what will happen. Or something like that.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[cens0r]

If you're talking about converting AAC -> CD Audio and then ripping the MP3's from the CD's; you're loosing an awful lot of quality. Besides, if you can burn a CD with the service, what's going to stop you from doing the same thing?

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[ealar dlanvuli]

Well, I'm again willing to bet you /can't/ burn a audio cd with the new service, given the MS track record on this.

And you don't loose an awful lot of quality. I encode in 320bit rate vbr, and the aac is identical to the mp3 on my speakers (which aren't shitty, but not audophile quality either).

If I can't hear the difference, it doesn't exist to me. Always keep that in mind.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[Tyler Eaves]

The mind boggles that someone could be so incredibly stupid. Yea, let's waste time, and double the file size!

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[cens0r]

they bit rate you encode at is irrelevant. You see both AAC and MP3 are lossy compression. The problem comes about because they are different algorithms and hence throw away different things. So lets say you have an original signal made up of wxyz. AAC decides w and z are meaningless, and discards them. When you burn the audio CD, you don't get them back they are gone. Now lets say that MP3 decides that you really need wyz to reproduce the signal. That's all find and dandy, except you don't have w and z anymore so your audio signal now consists of just y. If you can't hear a difference you're either not listening to music that was recorded at a high quality or you're deaf.

Well, I'm again willing to bet you /can't/ burn a audio cd with the new service, given the MS track record on this.

Excuse me. MS has a track record here? I was under the impression this was their first attempt at a music delivery system. MS could care less about what you do with the music you download from them. The only thing they're worried about is keeping the record companies happy enough to keep them supplied with music. The record companies have already demonstrated that they will let you burn a CD (iTMS), so why would microsoft be any less willing to negotiate a similar deal?

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[ealar dlanvuli]

Yea, let's waste time, and double the file size!

Waste time? Three clicks in the morning while I'm in meetings isn't wasting any time.

Double file size? I really could care less about file size.

I get the advantage of a track that can play in my car cd player. That seems fairly significant to me.

And no, I wouldn't be able to play windows media 9 tracks in my player, so don't counter with that.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[ealar dlanvuli]

The bit rate I encode in is extremely relevant, mp3 will discard much less information at 320kb/s than it will at 196kb/s. In fact it chooses to discard data in a way that the files sound identical to my untrained ear at 320kb/s (I was able to hear some quality loss in the bass at 196kb/s).

And as soon as they sound identical, they are. There is no way you can possibly define audio quality as anything other than how it sounds.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[Anonymous Coward]

When refering to format issues, I was talking about WM9 and it's amazing "single computer" drm restrictions. So even if I can burn CD's, with WM9 files I would have to (and re-rip them) if I ever intended to format the OS.

So yeah, they do have a track record with digital audio files being fubar.

Re:Whoa Microsoft is copying Apple...

[cens0r]

Isn't that the same thing you have to do to get a DRM free file from iTMS? Just because something makes DRM available isn't necessairly evil. It's the application of it that's evil. In this case it's the record companies that should be blamed not MS.

Once again - good enough

[Dark Paladin]

Let's not kid ourselves: for all of Microsoft's talk of "innovation", the one thing they're really good at is seeing another idea that works, making their own version of it, then making it "good enough" that their desktop monopoly can make money off of it.

So, let's take a look at their new music service:

Media Type: Windows Media Audio 9.

The Good: No big surprise, and depending on who you ask, it sounds better than MP3's at the same format. Anybody with either a new computer or someone who upgrades to Windows Media Player 9 should have it work just fine.

The Bad: Nobody but a Windows user can use it. But since the other big competitor Apple only lets it work with Macs, that means that a 4% user base is now hitting against a 90% user base - so it's all balanced in the end, I guess. Apple should have their service in Windows at the end of this year, and Windows Media Player 9 should be available "someday" for OS X, so then we can compare apples to apples (no pun intended).

Depending on who you ask, Apple's use of AAC isn't really a full open standard, since they've got the security hooks inside - but it's a far more open standard than WMA (Windows Media Audio). Any chance we'll see either one on Linux? Anyone? Guys?

The License:

The Good: No subscription fee, which I think is the #1 draw of the new music formats. Most of the songs are around 0.99 euros, which comes out to be $1.15 or so per track. And you can copy some to your portable players or burn CD tracks with them.

The Bad: So far, this is where Apple's service is kicking the other two's services right in the Jimmy. Apple's system is cut and dried: Every song, up to 3 computers, unlimited iPods, unlimited CD burns.

With Buymusic.com and Microsoft's service - it depends on the song. Maybe you can put it in a portable, maybe not. Maybe you can burn it, maybe not. So that means before you buy each song you'll have to either say "Well, I will only play these songs on this computer forever!", or say "Hm - let's see what the license is before I make my Ultimate Dance Track for the Anime Pool Party this Saturday.".

It's something the "average joe" won't care about - until one day, they go to do something, and don't understand why Song A can be copied/burned, but Song B can not. Will Apple use this in their marketing? Who knows - and odds are, people won't think enough to care.

The Selection:

The Good: 200,000 songs to start off with.

The Bad: No clue - I haven't seen the line up.

Final score:

Undecided. Microsoft's new music service looks more like BuyMusic.com's, only it's in Europe. Same media format, same licensing structure - only it's going to be inside the Windows Media Player and not just a web page for downloading.

Odds are, Apple's service will still be better with the "one license for every track" rule. But as history has shown, Micorosoft does not necessarily have to be "better" than the competition - usually "good enough" will do to make them money.

Either way, if Apple wants to get the bucks before competitor #1 eats the market, it needs to get its ass moving on its Windows service and those deals in Europe.

Re:Once again - good enough

[sdibb]

Depending on who you ask, Apple's use of AAC isn't really a full open standard, since they've got the security hooks inside - but it's a far more open standard than WMA (Windows Media Audio). Any chance we'll see either one on Linux? Anyone? Guys?

I really hope not. The last thing Linux needs/wants is crappy DRM protected, proprietary audio formats used by monopolies to stick it to their competition and frustrate any hope of standards that anyone can use on any platform.

That's why we have OGGs. :)

Re:Once again - good enough

[kahei]

"Hm - let's see what the license is before I make my Ultimate Dance Track for the Anime Pool Party this Saturday.".


Hm -- if it discourages the creating of anything called 'Ultimate Dance Track for the Anime Pool Party', I like it!

Re:Once again - good enough

[Reziac]

So that means before you buy each song you'll have to either say "Well, I will only play these songs on this computer forever!", or say "Hm - let's see what the license is before I make my Ultimate Dance Track for the Anime Pool Party this Saturday.".

Leaving aside that you have sick tastes in music [g] and that the service is a bit pricey ... if I have to shop for music based on what restrictions apply to each song vs what I find unreasonable, it becomes too much trouble to bother with.

If they want to wean people away from filesharing, they've got to make it consistent, by being predictable in how the file behaves, and easier than filesharing. Having to stop and think about how you can use each file is not predictable or easier.

One company to rule them all...

[picz]

All they want is:
The Server OS market
The Database market
The Office market
The Home PC market
The Handheld market
The Mobile market
The Game market
The TV market
The Instant messaging market
The E-mail market

And the hearts of men are easily corrupted.

Re:One company to rule them all...

[tomstdenis]

They can do that all they want.

All they want is:
The Server OS market

FreeBSD.

The Database market

mysql

The Office market

openoffice

The Home PC market

Linux

The Handheld market

Linux, PalmOS

The Mobile market

Palm

The Game market

PS2, GC, GBA

The TV market

??? Um.... ....???

The Instant messaging market

gaim

The E-mail market

Mozilla, kmail, ....

Tom

Re:One company to rule them all...

[Anonymous Coward]

Add: The Anti-Virus Market

I read in recent days (articles about blaster) that MS has acquired an AV company. No doubt it'll be 'bundled' in sometime soon.

Re:One company to rule them all...

[sporty]

mysql? You aern't serious. Yeah, slashdot runs mysql, that's nice and all, but it is way behind on performance that the big boys can do. Yes, it has replication, and I think it just got subselects, but can it do parallel processing using something like fibre-channel from the same disc, increasing performance of a multi-machine system?

Linux, palm, ps2.. yeah, they are all great alternatives to MS that can be used in real situations, but after using mysql at different instances (3.x branch, 4.x branch), I rather use anything else.

Re:One company to rule them all...

[tomstdenis]

Ok then Oracle or whatever.

MSFT is not the only company that makes database software.

What locks people into MSFT products are stupid people who buy MSFT products. MSFT was fairly well known as a bully even five years ago [and longer]. I have a hard time believing that most small companies couldn't make the switch to a free platform [and choice of tools] in under five years.

Tom

Re:One company to rule them all...

[sporty]

Only one problem with that assesment of DB's.. MS-SQL is too cheap. While oracle may be thousands if not tens of thousands for a good license, MS charges a significant amount less with good performance.

I'm not advocating that we use MS all over the place, but those are the breaks. Cheap and good performance. Hell, I rather Oracle.

Re:One company to rule them all...

[Anonymous Coward]

tomstdenis

The manham department

Ooh! Download once!

[Anonymous Coward]

Play through Virtual Audio Cable (http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm), save as WAV file, rip to MP3. Sounds good to me! 1.49UKP for an entire CD! Now that's value for money!

Re:Ooh! Download once!

[lightcycle]

Uhm... I guarantee you it won't sound good to you. Somehow many people seem to think music can be coded in several generations without audible quality loss. I assure this is not the case. As for the price, I'm not sure it's that good, compared to e-Music, previously mentioned on /. I haven't tried e-Music yet, but 10-15$ a month for virtually unlimited download seems a far better deal.

Download

[Neophytus]

Try the sample download in moz/opera etc - even spoofing user agent it doesn't work. That is until you copy the download url from the source.

European investigation into Media Player

[Lochin Rabbar]

Anyone still wondering why MS is under investigation in Europe for using Media Player to extend their monopoly now has their answer. The recording cartel and the OS monopolists have got together to tie up the market for downloadable singles. The result overpriced tracks, low quality, DRM and no choice.

Re:European investigation into Media Player

[Anonymous Coward]

This antitrust case is complete bs. MS even licenses the WM codec, so anyone can write their own compatible player. anti-trust legislation is an affront to anyone who believes in freedom.

Piracy in Europe

[TrippTDF]

I've got a question-

I'm under the impression that piracy of music/software is worse is Europe than in the US. Does Microsoft stand a chance on this front, given their terrible reputation in Europe as it is?

Any Europeans out there care to enlighten me?

Re:Piracy in Europe

[MaestroSartori]

I work in the games industry, and am fairly active in the warez scene (I like to see when games I work on make it to IRC/ftp servers). I also live in Europe...

Almost all of the biggest and best warez groups are from Europe, but most of the sources for downloads are in the USA. This has been the case for many years, and doesn't really seem to have changed much since the widespread availability of broadband in Europe.

For what its worth, the quickest a game I've worked on has been released was about 4 weeks before it went gold (leaked by someone who works for the publisher, we had unique IDs in the builds :)

Re:Piracy in Europe

[Alkarismi]

I'm British - does that count? - already had one poster cast doubts on my European Credentials :)

Truth is, as Andrew Orlowski points out on the Reg
"Europeans have learned that the law and its social instruments are best ignored"

When it's a 'bad' law of course ;)

You could also say that we're naturally anti-gov and anti-bigBiz.

I think the key, though, is that we simply haven't been hit by the DMCA/DRM/PIRACY/TERRORISTS hysteria yet - unfortunately it appears to be coming RSN :(
I don't look forward to getting caught up in the nightmare my USA brethren appear to have got themselves in - just wish enough of my fellow Europeans knew enough, or cared enough, to head it off *before* it arrives - chances of that fading fast...

Just my 0.02

Re:Piracy in Europe

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm under the impression that piracy of music/software is worse is Europe than in the US.

Definitely. What's more, governments and organisations here still support the people.
Just last week here in the Netherlands, the "Stichting Brein" (which is a sort of cross between the RIAA and the BSA) started commercials about how they'd go and use strong-arm tactics against people downloading music. Within days every news media reported on how 1) acquiring consumers ip addresses by the robots used for this is an illegal method of gathering such information, 2) no ISP would give up customers data without a court order (because of strong privacy laws) and 3) because of 1) there's no way any court would ever give such an order.

Basically before the "Stichting Brein" said anything, all the noise about what's been happening in the USA might still scare off people, but now there's not a single person in the Netherlands who has any fears about downloading music. All the laws are with us!

Re:Piracy in Europe

[EinarH]

just wish enough of my fellow Europeans knew enough, or cared enough, to head it off *before* it arrives - chances of that fading fast...

I don't see thats happening anytime soon.
Mainstream media coverage of for example the EU IP Enforcement directive is slim and most people don't seem to care right now. At the same time lobbying pro this seems to be something the big conglomerats invests much money into.

If you look at the speed the Infosoc directive went through the EU system the prospects look grim. I think that the conditions will get much much worse before people see how bad this is.

Re:Piracy in Europe

[shamino0]

I work in the games industry, and am fairly active in the warez scene (I like to see when games I work on make it to IRC/ftp servers).

???

You like to see your games pirated? Or do you like to know that your games are popular enough that people want to pirate them? Or do you mean something else?

Re: Piracy in Europe

[gidds]

Europe isn't just one place. It's a collection of different countries, each with its own culture, history, character, &c. There are many similarities and some overlap, of course, but there's still much more variation than over the US.

Here in the UK I get the impression we're more sticklers for the letter of the law than elsewhere in Europe, where they're much more relaxed about such things. But that's just my prejudice, based on very little info. Certainly there's quite a bit of file sharing, CD sharing, &c here too. But that's just anecdotal, and as someone said recently, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'...

"Where are they now?" to become weekly

[Supero100]

DOWN WITH ALBUMS!

UP WITH ONE HIT WONDERS!

Maybe after a few years this will cause the kind folks at VH1 to make "Where are they now" a weekly series...

link doesnt work

[Neophytus]

Ok, its clearly one of those one-download-then-link-moves things. My bad.

The EU might make this difficult

[burgburgburg]

Considering that WMP 9 is the core of this service and is also (coincidentally) the focus of the recent EU complaint against monopolistic Microsoft, I see potential for the EU to cause this venture major problems.

Well, I don't think it'll work

[martinthebrit]

I was quite pleased when I read about it on the beeb this morning, so I visited the site to see if was workable. I'd quite like to be able to legally buy music since the security loopholes enabling my Kazaa usage have been closed down at work recently, and the piece of wet string that connects me to the internet from my home in the English countryside isn't up to the job of downloading music.

Could I find any music I wanted to buy. No. And when I did a search for a song I'd heard on the radio this morning - typical impulse buy mentality, I was told I couldn't buy it because of my location. WTF!

A Slashdotter's delima

[Lord_Slepnir]

(Anti-Microsoft Troll): We Hatesss the Microsoft

(Anti-RIAA Troll): But we loves the online music, especially.

(Anti-Microsoft Troll): But it's Microsoft. They load it down with DRM

(Anti-RIAA Troll): But we can hacks the DRM, yes we can.

(Anti-Microsoft Troll): But you're paying money to the evils Microsoft.

(Anti-RIAA Troll): But we're only paying for one songs at a time! We saves money from not buying whole albums at a times...

Re:A Slashdotter's delima

[Anonymous Coward]

(Both trolls together) - So we downloads it from Kazaa! We savess money and we don't gets the evil DRM!

I see conflict on the horizon ...

[beanyk]

From the Guardian article:

"For the first time, millions of music fans across Europe will be able to buy individual tracks from all five major labels," said Jonathan Usher, the director of Windows Media Division.

Just wait until the RIAA finds MP3s of one the director's speech on MS's file servers ...

The RIAA should learn a thing or two

[acegik]

I think at least someone is starting to realize that sueing ppl isnt the answer. Its not perfect yet but its a progress. The RIAA should learn a thing or two.

They Dont Give Up

[Bruha]

So what next? MicroSoft cant stand to have a business model they dont incorporate into their OS. I suppose they might go ahead and make a music service built directly into Media Player 10 thus shutting out other music services.

Of course the RIAA could contend that with restrictions.

Re:They Dont Give Up

[sh0rtie]

Windows media player already has windowsmedia.com built into the player , in fact it has 8 major control buttons and 3 of those point straight at windowsmedia.com (using the IE activeX control (r-click is also conviently disabled), it also has a built in GUID that is enabled by default so they can identify you regardless of cookie settings, in fact the only way not to make WMP contact microsoft is to firewall it off

im waiting for more Euro Antitrust complaints , obviously a 10billion dollar fine isnt going to be enough

But I don't think they'll have the same success...

[Kjella]

I think they'll make buckets of money; it requires Windows Media Player 9 which has a much larger user base than that of the Mac and the Apple player which is getting half a million song downloads a week.

Apple has good karma when it comes to music, like their "Rip, Mix, Burn" slogan, and people in some sense trust them not to be unreasonable. With Windows, I don't know of anyone that has the same attitude.

Another point is that Apple users very often have the Apple Ipod, while Windows users have pretty much everything, much of which probably doesn't support the DRM too well, if WMA at all.

I'll definately consider the Apple iTMS when it comes to Windows. But this service? Sorry, but I don't feel like having Microsoft control my digital rights (after the purchase, oh wait, the licencing), I don't trust them to. Isn't that what this "Trusted computing" is all about? Trust them? Ain't going to happen.

Kjella

It's All The Same

[dirtydiaper]

If it is ok for Microsoft to steal Apples idea it should be ok for us to steal music!

Re:It's All The Same

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not stealing, it's copying! That's why it's called copyright, not stealingright.

circumvention ?

[Ragnagnor]

download -> burn to cd in WMP9 -> rip to MP3 from cd -> (almost) legal MP3 ?? Wouldn't this be the way to go ? If you really don't like Windows Media Player, can't you just write the files to a CD and rip them back to MP3?

Re:circumvention ?

[Supero100]

There are tons of ways to do it.
To get more serious security, you'd have to have encryption from file and decryption at the speaker-hardware level.

Then it's simply a matter of using any number of password-prime number-encryption crackers overnight on a file to tease out the key.

Security is like being the gerbil, anti-sercurity is like spinning the wheel.

Re:circumvention ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can, but the quality will bite because you are heavily and lossily compressing the same file 2x over, which will result in general suckitude from the overcompression of said file. Think of it as photocopying a photocopy, with every generation, there will be huge losses.

Re:The song I want...

[moofharmacrod]

RMS singing the Free software song can be found at the link at the bottom.

It is available in .au, .mp3, and .ogg! Scroll down a fifth of the way to find it, or it is the fifth item in the list. There are lots of other songs there too. Some are even pretty good!
Songs

Some snags with the service...

[rklrkl]

I can think of some drawbacks to the service:

• You require a Windows machine with Windows Media Player 9. That presumably rules out all Mac and Linux users ?
• Compression is used so it won't be as good quality as a CD.
• You need a broadband connection really to make regular use of the service.
• It sounds like there is some form of DRM (press release is vague about it).
• You don't get any artwork/booklet save for a small JPEG screenshot of the front cover.
• Albums cost 7.99 pounds to download, whereas I can buy a CD (higher quality, artwork, no DRM) for 8.99 pounds from CD WOW!.
• I like solo female singer-songerwriters - good luck on finding Nanci Griffith, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Sam Brown or Shawn Colvin on there. And no sign of The Beatles (unless you count a covers band !) on there of course.

Just about the only good thing I could see about the service is the availability of non-album tracks that only previously appeared on now-deleted CD singles (e.g. "Humpty Dumpty" by Aimee Mann came out in January 2003 - I never saw the CD single in the stores I go to - and it has a non-album track on it). Apart from that, you're better every single time buying the CD album or single (the latter can be 1.99 pounds or 2.99 pounds in most cases for 3 tracks).

Re:Some snags with the service...

[Anonymous Coward]

> You require a Windows machine with Windows Media Player 9. That presumably rules out all Mac and Linux users ?

Well, yes, but can we Windows users use iTunes?

Re:Some snags with the service...

[Knobby]

good luck on finding Nanci Griffith, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Sam Brown or Shawn Colvin on there. And no sign of The Beatles (unless you count a covers band !) on there of course.

I was curious to see how the iTunes Music Store stacked up on your list of artists, so I just took a look and here's what I found:
Nanci Griffith: 14 complete albums
Mary Chapin Carpenter: 7 partial albums
Sam Brown: none
Shawn Colvin: 2 complet albums, 3 partial albums
The Beatles: 1 partial album

Re:Some snags with the service...

[ChicksDigUnix172]

One of the reasons people use the download service rather than commercial stores/downloads is looking for outdated/rare/weird music that large corps that do the online sales would not have anyway. hence the inherent flaw in online music store as opposed to p2p: it will never have the same selection/diversity of material

Look at the iTMS experience

[burgburgburg]

It has been a consistent part of the iTMS that about half of all songs sold are purchased as albums. You are not the only one who wants the whole artists experience. And for those who don't (or don't care), there is the a la carte option.

But will it have Worm Support?

[Slur]

It won't be up to Microsoft's usual standards unless it's mondo exploitable. Let's hope they deploy it on .NET servers for years of good yuks.

Re:But will it have Worm Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tried .NET servers have you? Rooted some I suppose. Try it, then knock it.

Catalog?

[Lord_Dweomer]

So, is this just going to be the RIAA's latest hits? Or is Microsoft going to do something innovative for a change and sign on indies? And I'll bet there's watermarking in the files to catch people who circumvent the DRM. Microsoft will have the advantage that they can bundle it with computers and they have huge marketshare, but something tells me Apple will destroy them when it comes out with its music service. Wonder which one will come out first.

Re:oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, but it is...

Just wait'll the thing goes online, then backdoor the sonofabitch and download every track they have, for FREE!!

iTMS doesn't

[burgburgburg]

Thats what many companies do.

That was sort of my point. iTMS has a consistent price for singles: $0.99. Hot new, golden oldies, prerelease, iTMS exclusives. Seems a bit more user friendly to me.

Important info wrt copying to devices

[rokzy]

you can buy "temporary" downloads (~10 credits) or "permanent" downloads (~99 credits).

temporary can be listened to but not transfered to another device like permanent can.

you can also "stream" for 1 credit - one listen only.

the cost of credits and their value seems to be variable, but starts at about 1p/credit with discounts for buying lots:

http://sib1.od2.com/common/frameset/frames.asp

Good Artists

[phloydphreak]

Good artists are not motivated by album sales but by some internalization of the music they are creating. Great artists will never stop making the music they desire to have heard (and hear themselves). The real question is whether they will ever be heard (or worse; have the motivation to share the music with others).

The major problem posed to the artist in this situation is his/her inability to be included on whatever listings that are distributed (which is similar to any major recording industry). The major difference between the RI and this situation is the lack of competition (why get new music?).

...And it is being headed by M$. :->

Re:oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm good idea, and they're probably running a Microsoft OS too! RPC DCOM to work!

Actually it'd be a shame if they didn't patch their own systems.

2 remarks

[selderrr]

1. the press release is a .Doc file... wtf ! Since when is Word the de facto standard for distributing press releases ? If Word is as good as it claims, do a simple save-as-html goddamit !

2. No screenshots, no release date, no nuthin... After reading half of ad2.com, I still have no idea whatshowever how this service is going to look like. Sounds like vapourware to me.

Re:2 remarks

[Anonymous Coward]

2 - Open Windows Media Player (9), select the Premium Services tab, then select MSN Music Club. You don't seem to be able to get at it through the web directly

Re:2 remarks

[Anonymous Coward]

The press release on MSN says the service is only available in the UK: http://www.msn.co.uk/
One tiscali music club can be found at: http://music.tiscali.co.uk/

Both sites do not have any information on restrictions regarding music sharing, transfers and burning. I believe you have to use Windows Media Player 9 Series in order to get more information on these topics.

The service looks a lot like the one from BuyMusic. It seems each artist/music distributor can customize the usage rights for playing, burning, sharing. With iTMS it is clear from the onset to users that all songs can be burned 10x per playlist, shared on 3 Macs etc. Here (through OD2 platform) it is per song.

I don't believe this is serious competition for iTMS, but it will be very hard for Apple to launch a pan-european service with similar pricing and rights as the US store.

See following article for details:

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/08/14.5. sh tml

My take on this new "iTMS attacking service" (see newspaper article links on www.macsurfer.com) is that it is no competition to iTMS.

Re:2 remarks

[selderrr]

call me a dork, but i just can't find it !
honest ! I just downloaded the latest & greatest WMP, but there's no "Premium Services tab"
!
If they are going to hide it this well, iTMS has not much to fear for !

At least they're offering the service...

[Hittite Creosote]

OK, Apple have good karma.

But - I don't have an Apple, and I'm not in the US.

It doesn't matter a fig how wonderful Apple's service and morality is, if I can't use them without moving to a different country. I'd use Apple's service, but I can't until they offer it to me. So, any firm dates for iTunes Europe, or is it still 'By the end of the year'?

Re:At least they're offering the service...

[diverman]

Well, your options are:

1. You could sell your soul and buy into the MS music store when available.

2. You could wait a few months and enjoy Apple's service when it's available.

Fortunately, I both have a Mac (2 years convert) and live in the US. It's not like a few months is going to kill you. You went your whole life without online music stores of this nature. A little more patience might pay off. And from what I'm constantly reading, Europe isn't too happy with MS lately, either, with all the law suits popping up.

-Alex

Figures.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'm not against even Microsoft offering a legal download service for a reasonable price. So I've signed up, given them a fiver for "points". Should have looked at what was available first - so far I've found one track I actually wanted to "buy", and once I had, it wouldn't play....

the shame

[zpok]

They can't get a deal with the sweet, existing, proven service from Apple, but they bend over for MS?

Long live the European Music Industry.

No "buy album" discounts

[rokzy]

there's a new album (double CD compilation of b-sides and covers) by Manic Street Preachers I bought new and legally for I think 8.88

buying it off OD2 would cost me almost 34

maybe this service is aimed as a single-song service, but examples like the above are just ridiculous.

sure, you might not get many people wanting to buy an entire album, but you should still provide for those that do. why cripple your flexibility?

Re:No "buy album" discounts

[rokzy]

the values 8.88 and 34 are pounds, why doesn't the pound symbol show up?

Re:No "buy album" discounts

[Anonymous Coward]

Conversely, they've put Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells on as two tracks (part one, part two), so you can get the whole thing for 198 points, or 799 if you download it as an album. What?

Re:No "buy album" discounts

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably a bug in Slashcode. Maybe bug isn't quite the word, it's an unimplemented feature. The HTML code for a pound sign is [and sign], pound, [semicolon] and it is quite legitimate - if you use the proper sequence, any browser should be able to display it.

About the...

[ThyTurkeyIsDone]

...Robbie Williams picture in the BBC story: Can you say Bert from Sesame Street?

Priceless.

Re:About the...

[gregarican]

He looks like he just rode his bicycle without the seat again.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

The parent post is absolutely right. The new service will not let you copy music to CD.

Something for Linux/Mac/Win-users

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately FreeBSD is no longer supported, but Linux/Mac/Win-users can all access Emusic.com, which has an excellent selection (especially for punk/metal-fans - but also lots of good stuff in the other categories). It IS a subscription based service, but it's cheaper than buying a CD a month and you get high-quality VBR encoded MP3s.

It's pretty much awesome.

UK people take action

[Anonymous Coward]

complain to our goverment, maybe kicking up a stink and something might get done

http://www.oft.gov.uk/About/Who+to+contact/In+Comp etition+Enforcement+division.htm

Why are MS and Apple involved?

[3seas]

Can't the RIAA, or who ever is better tied in, do this?

What exactly is it that Apple and MS are needed and not just cut out of the deal with reduced cost to the customers?

Re:Why are MS and Apple involved?

[ioErr]

You need Apple and Microsoft because they, unlike those "better tied in" actually have the balls to try.

OD2 press release

[geighaus]

from http://www.ondemanddistribution.com

LONDON -- Aug. 14, 2003 -- On Demand Distribution (OD2), a leading digital music company, and Microsoft Corp. today announced that OD2 has launched a new version of its music platform using Microsoft(R) Windows Media(R) Player 9 Series. The OD2 platform enables the MSN(R) Music Club and Tiscali Music Club music stores to give consumers across Europe the ability to download individual tracks starting from 0.99 (0.75) from all five major labels and leading independents. OD2's digital music catalogue offers more than 200,000 tracks by 8,500 artists, which are now available for download without subscription. The new range of services from MSN Music Club and the Tiscali Music Club also will be accessible to consumers in Europe through the Premium Services tab of Windows Media Player 9 Series.

The MSN Music Club service will be available in English, French, and German from today, and can be accessed from the Premium Service Tab of the Media Player. The Tiscali Music Club is operational in United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Belgium. Both services are based on a simple pay-as-you-go model, enabling music fans to download individual songs starting from just 0.75 (0.99) per track, or 7.99 (12.49) per album. Those preferring to use a subscription-based service from MSN or Tiscali will be rewarded with even cheaper costs per track -- from as low as 0.62 (0.82).

Charles Grimsdale, CEO of OD2, said, "These new services represent the second generation of online music stores in Europe. Consumers can now access a vast library of legitimate digital music, and download and keep the music they buy without needing to commit to a monthly subscription. Both these services let users discover, download and manage their music collections through Windows Media Player 9 Series."

"For the first time, millions of music fans across Europe will be able to buy individual tracks from all five major music labels through the OD2 music platform," said Jonathan Usher, director, Windows Digital Media Division, Microsoft Corp. "With MSN Music Club and Tiscali Music Club offerings easily accessible through Windows Media Player 9 Series, consumers can seamlessly search, browse, download, organise and play tracks as well as take their music with them on more than 50 types of portable music devices, or burn copies onto CD."

OD2's catalogue includes many French, German, Italian and Spanish artists as well as strong representation from the United Kingdom and United States. Individual songs and whole albums will be available from superstar artists including Eminem, Christina Aguilera, Kylie, Ms. Dynamite and David Gray. All recordings are encoded using Windows Media 9 Series, protected by Windows Media Digital Rights Management (DRM) technology.

Both the MSN Music Club and Tiscali Music Club services will allow music fans to take advantage of a growing range of new releases made available online the same day they are released to radio broadcasters, which is often a full six weeks before they are available on CD in conventional stores.

Making music downloads available directly through the media player allows service providers to easily reach the huge base of more than 50 million Windows Media Player 9 Series users. Music content delivered using Windows Media 9 Series takes up only half the storage space of MP3, meaning that consumers can fit even more music onto their PCs, portable devices or CDs. New users can download the Windows Media Player 9 Series from http://www .microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/download/defau lt.asp.

About OD2

OD2 has the largest catalogue of legal digital music in Europe and is the only digital music provider in Europe that offers repertoire from each of the five major labels (Warner, BMG, Universal, Sony and EMI), as well as a host of independents. OD2's customers include Belgacom, MSN, HMV, Dotmusic, Tiscali, MTV, Ministry of Sound, Fnac, Freeserve, Alapage, LO

Instructions, please!

[wikthemighty]

Fans can copy tracks, burn them to CDs and transfer them to other devices as much as they want "within reason", he added.

Maybe I missed something, but I loaded up my copy of Reason 2.5 and while I could load audio data into several of the devices, I couldn't find any way to transfer them or burn them to CD.

Apple zealots won't use it

[axxackall]

Sure Apple zealots won't use anything from Microsoft. As for the rest 95% of PC users - I don't see any of them share your attitude.

As for iTMS on Windows, why Apple would do it?

As for iTMS database, where did they found such content? I need same music as in the next CD store, not something I can find through Google in MP3 format for free.

Re:Apple zealots won't use it

[noewun]

As for iTMS on Windows, why Apple would do it?

To make obscene amounts of money.

Apple has announced a Windows version of iTunes, and thus the iTMS, will be available by the end of the year. I believe someone even posted the ad seeking programmers for the project here.

Misinformation?

[RAMMS EIN]

``the continent's first major a la carte online download service. ... The move marks the first time European consumers can purchase song downloads off the Internet for under one euro ($1.13)''

What about Weblisten.com? They were there before, sell songs at less than a euro a piece, provide the songs in the standard MP3 format. 'nuff said.

DRM Details for this New Service

[jetkust]

1. You purchase the song for .99 euros.
2. You get access to download the song for 3 days.
3. At the 3rd day, a team of Microsoft employees comes to your house to remove all the songs from your computer and electronic devices. They destroy all cdrs, Pen drives, flash cards or anything else you could have used to pirate music.
4. The microsoft team reformats your hard drive, and reinstalls windows at a discounted cost of $129.
5. A private detective who has been following you over the past 3 days, visits everyone you've come in contact with and performs the same process on them.
* This process is repeated once for each additional song purchased.

Re:DRM Details for this New Service

[HoppQ]

1. You purchase the song for .99 euros.
2. You get access to download the song for 3 days.
3. At the 3rd day, a team of Microsoft employees comes to your house to remove all the songs from your computer and electronic devices. They destroy all cdrs, Pen drives, flash cards or anything else you could have used to pirate music.
4. The microsoft team reformats your hard drive, and reinstalls windows at a discounted cost of $129.
5. A private detective who has been following you over the past 3 days, visits everyone you've come in contact with and performs the same process on them.

6. ???
7. Profit!

Okay, this shows I've spent too much time on slashdot. I'd get a life, but there was that SCO story I still haven't read...

Yeah, this might be good...

[Anonymous Coward]

... unless they use any of their own formats. If they do, kiss my shiny metal ass while I download as much music as I can for FREE. Entire ALBUMS at CD quality, oooh yeah, eMule will rock my world! RIAA, you can shove a LONG rod up your... aaah errm, yeah.

Knowing how secure M$ is ...

[crovira]

I don't see a big delay before somebody cracks the DRM which wil p-off the media companies.

Plus, M$'s harware dependents don't have iPod...

What's selling iTunes is iPod.

Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

"You can burn them as CD audio tracks (and then, of course, re- rip them)"

Yeah, what a recipe for a great sounding rip. Take something that is half CD quality (128kb WMA), burn it to CD, then re-rip it (probably to 128kb MP3), which will just make it sound un-fucking-believable.

Of course, this is more the kind of service for 19 year olds with too much disposable income, and who think they got a good deal.

Might as well tape off the radio; same quality sound, and no restrictions on use.

Well...not really

[Anonymous Coward]

"this is a smart thing to do"

Only if it succeeds. If it fails, then people will run away from MS as fast as you can say "5C0 RUL2"

Re:Well...not really

[Serapth]

Yep, but MS basically has its hands tied. Pulling a profit isnt enough... they need to show growth to the analysts that monitor MS stocks. When you own damned near 100% of your market... you are forced to go into new markets. Now, Microsofts best way into new markets its to leverage the assets they already have.

XBox was a good example of this way of thinking... as was MSN, and in this case... now so is music. So long as one of these area's they succeed in, MS can really afford to fail in a few others.

However, if MS fails to grow in any area... you are going to see their stock plummet like a rock.... well... that is... if they didnt have 40billion in the bank :) If they had to, they could float the stock price for a while paying dividends...

It only goes to prove...

[Anonymous Coward]

"the WMA quality is worse then AAC"

And AAC is far worse than CD quality, and yet people will tell you with a straight face "I can't tell the difference between AAC files and the CD", which says far more about that person's ability to perceive reality (and be truthful about it) than any inherent goodness in lossy compression.

Mind you, I think Apple has the best DRM scheme of everyone (except emusic), but its certainly not perfect

Vapourware

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like vapourware to me.

No. It's NU-KYU-LER.

Re:The song I want...

[Lars T.]

But I want to buy the "gold" singles for 1.19.

Ohhhhh I get it.....iLoo

[3seas]

Where can you access this music service?

Why else is MS involved?

No use

[Anonymous Coward]

All the drawback you've pointed out...I've pointed them out since the Apple Service was mentioned, and without fail, people tell me:
"You just don't get it"

And you know what? They're right. If people would be willing to wait 2-3 days (I know its tough), they can get a used version of the CD for a lower price, higher quality and no DRM. Funny.

Instead, they pay too much for a service that gives them far lower quality, DRM, no ability to sell their songs to someone else.... AND THEY CALL IT PROGRESS!!!!

It boggles my mind. Really.

You're arguing with tin-earred kids

[Anonymous Coward]

These are the kids who a few years ago bought cassettes and claimed that they sound just as good as vinyl.

I mean, you're dealing with people think cassettes sound "pretty good".

Singles vs. Albums vs. Profit

[flinxmeister]

I think that you'll see labels pushing for singles, and indies/artists pushing for albums. This seems counterintuitive since labels have bigger budgets...but listen further.

I just finished my own project...not in a basement studio...but in a real production house type studio. I spent more than my last car. When I spend that much money I'm going to make darn sure that every track is both creative AND worth listening to because I *need* to recoup my investment, and 3000 99 cent downloads won't do it. In short, I have much more incentive to make a good album since my margin is only worth anything with a full album sale.

On the other hand, a label is looking for the big bang pop song single that's going to hit the Radio/TRL and sell the whole record--or hit a nucleus of 2 or 3 other songs to seal the deal. In a shift to an online sales model, they aren't going to completely abandon this...it's too ingrained. They are either going to force album purchases to attempt to maximize profits, or focus on the nucleus of 2 or 3 songs. In short, they have much more incentive to go on an EP type model which doesn't allow for diversity.

On a side note, about half my album used public domain material as a core. I'm preparing a slashdot article after it's released. Self recorded, self promoted, sold online using public domain material...wish me luck!

In Other News

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux users discover they already have a music sharing system, called /usr/bin/httpd - it even works with Windows and Macs.

Re:oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. They should use Linux because it's so secure. Just ask FSF how secure the ftp server has been for the last few months.

Re:But I don't think they'll have the same success

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does MS bashing from some moron who hasn't even tried the system modded up as insightful.

-1 You Bastards?

[Anonymous Coward]

what, now I'm a goddamn troll? why, because my goddamn computer is a piece of shit? I'm not allowed to mention anything but happy rosy thoughts to you retards?

Okay, Microsoft is fucking wonderful and never crashes and doesn't have any security holes, not even the one thats tak

Oh Marvelous

[ratfynk]

Now millions of Europeans will be able to down load all the Abba that they want! I can just imagine the Eurocentric content managers, a bunch of RIAA 70s disco farts sitting there thinking the will make a fortune 'cause Europeans really will buy Abba at 1 euro a tune.