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Ernie Ball - Model For Open-Source Transition?
fr0z writes "
Ernie Ball is a company that makes guitar strings. After being raided by the BSA in 2000 without warning and fined $100,000 for a few unlicensed copies of software, CEO Sterling Ball vowed not to give another cent to Microsoft and within 6 months, according to CNET News, had the whole company switched to Red Hat Linux, OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and other free software."
Well, we now know the rock and roll source for the Free Software movement Maybe we can get some bands and have an open-source concert!
...it might just be me, but is that a Windows 2003 Server ad that appears on the page along with Ernie Ball's story?
Maybe the BSA should carry out more raids and "convert" more people to Linux!
After being raided by the BSA in 2000
Hey, I knew we went overboard with the Patriot act, but when did the BSA (Boyscouts of America) start doing raids?!?
Just another day in Paradise
So they opted away from the "super Sleazy" so they can continue making the "Super Slinky?" /obscure guitarist info
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
...I'd like to know what Accounting software they use... gnuCash?
:-D
Anyways - my axe wil be enjoying openSource crafted strings from now
[qoute]
"I said, 'I don't care if we have to buy 10,000 abacuses,'" recalled Ball, who recently addressed the LinuxWorld trade show. "We won't do business with someone who treats us poorly."
[/quote]
if you don't agree with the licensing, don't use illegal copies. it's very nice etc that they switched the whole thing to RH, but come on, if you use commercial software you should pay for it.
Yep - hauling out my piano and dumping it. It's time to learn to play guitar.
I wanna support these guys and I'd feel pretty silly just buying strings.
Alan.
but they were illegally using software. Still, there is a lesson to learn from this if your company uses non-Free software.
2. Switch to Linux et al.
3. Profit.
Other companies have likely done similar but it's the publicity that counts more than anything - an actual success story with Linux from a company with clout should turn a few heards in the direction of open source.
i don't agree with M$/BSA methods. but legally, they have the right, and there's not a real excuse to not follow the terms and conditions of a license if you are running a professional business.
no matter how honest and fair this family business of his might be...
now you can mod me to hell, i know i don't have a popular opinion
I don't care if we have to buy 10,000 abacuses
I bet Abacus Inc is pretty pissed at the Red Hat right now. That's one big contract to miss out on.
Organisations like the BSA are allowed to raid people and companies?
I thought only the police could do that - if they have a warrant.
They could have just told them to fuck off when they came to the door.
If is true that if you have to pay the legal expenses of the BSA while they prosecute you, then it is time for a flood of feeble "In Soviet America" jokes. Perhaps someone who is a lawyer could explain the situation?
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
--
Mas3
DevCounter - An open, free & independent developer pool
created to help developers find other developers, help, testers and new project members.
It's hard to keep up with licenses at a small company. I'd venture to say most companies with 50 computers or less have at most one IT person to handle everything. A company with 150-200 clients and a few servers might have 2-3 IT people if they are lucky.
The only reasonable way such a company can ensure full licenses is to pay MS's outrageous "protection money". I forget what they call it, something like "software assurance". When the BSA comes in, you are guilty until proven innocent. Most companies roll over.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Well, he said that he could probably have come to an agreement with MS if he had been treated better. The problem was the way they went about, using his company as a target just to set an example.
I have a life. I really do. I've just chosen to ignore it.
Well, if it is such a hassle and so expensive, they could have used linux instead.
But they decided to go the microsoft way and dont didnt ensure they had licenses for everything. Bad luck.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
i was just going to say that! hopefully sco will be laughed out of court anyway (but that's a different discussion)
Arnie for Governor, Actors Speak Louder Than Words
Just to get the story _really_ straight:
He wasn't objecting to being nonconformant, license-wise. He is objecting to the manner in which he was treated as a customer. He objected to the very heavy-handed way they treated it, and to the way they decided to hang him out publicly as an example. He also objects to the steep fines imposed (without any court sanction), and the way the law in practice makes it impossible for smaller businesses to contest the BSA assertions in court.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
We have a number of medium sized enterprises *fully* migrated to Open Source software, and running *way* better on it.
Our best known (in the UK at least) case study is here.
In fact the Group consider Open Source to not merely be a 'substitute' for Microsoft Software, but to have delivered far more real, measurable business benefit than they ever received as a Microsoft Shop.
I am glad Ernie Ball are receiving this great press for their *complete* migration, but they are by no means the first (or the last!) decent-sized enterprise to have done this.
Do not taunt Happy Ernie Bal...er.. wait, wrong ball.
Mr. Ball sounds like a practical businessman, he sounds passionate and as if he enjoys what he does. I wonder if he would be receptive to a business proposition in which he would be featured in commercial advertisements and perhaps provide more precise figures about what it costs him (as he said that analysts are too pessimistic).
As more people like Mr. Ball speak out, the open source community is gaining more people who understand business and can convince other businesses. This man understands that free software can still cost money, and he has the personal experience and business acumen to be able to boil things down to the most important, concise points. He mentiones several important points in his interview, and probably has tons more knowledge that would be useful to making open source a better business solution, and making open source profitable.
It might not be such a bad idea for companies and individuals who are considering funding open source projects to listen to such people when considering project goals. And it would not be so difficult for free software organizations to initiate commerical projects including creating advertisements and articles based on solid, no-nonsense business cases for open source featuring real-world successes like Ernie Ball.
Who could easily have installed illegal software and he would not have known.
Especially if he was running stuff like Win95 and Win98.
But total prevention probably would require making a PC with no interface.
It was obviously not his intention to use software that was not paid for. Otherwise why would there be any compliance?
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
and an ex-geek, this news simply rules. ... are they worried about SCO?
But the real question is
Most businesses being small businesses or starting out as small businesses' aren't that savvy about IP law. Or the DCMA. In the end the market will react either by the software vendors backing off, the law changing, or people doing what this guy did and choosing alternatives.
Show me proof of ownership for your toilet. Bet you can't!
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Probably of zero interest to most of the /. crowd, but they make some very funky bass strings as well.
Ernie Ball Extra Slinkies are great for playing slap bass / funk in general, very "twangie" sound.
When they got sponsored by the RIAA and a new litigation and sub-poena serving badges were added to the BSA range.
Ok, I copy and paste too, but I give credit where it's due.
This is pretty much a copy & paste job from yesterday's OSNEWS.com. At least give them credit.
OpenOffice, mozilla don't make good use of the hardware, especially with >1Ghz and >128Mb of ram, Openoffice just slows to a halt or crash and burn. Yes we have tried OpenOffice 1.1, but its still too slow, just because they changed the bootstrap sequence to make the initial window appeear faster, dosent means its fast now.. Mozilla is not so bad if you don't use the XUL front end (use a front end such as jan6, thunderbird (which is the browser we use), or konqueror).
Our company runs Microsoft office 2000 on our 300 gentoo workstations that have 128 Mb. We can't afford the $150,000 to upgrade the RAM (and the hard drives) so we can use OpenOffice (and then face the horrible fonts it uses as it uses its own propeitry font handling system)
My company outsources about 15% of its programming work to taiwan and the poor support for the Chinese character set means we have to run the Chinese version of Microsoft Office on a dedicated windows 98 box to read the documents from the taiwanese office. (no, crossover office dosen't work on non english versions of Microsoft Office).
So to summurize, for our company to be to completey Linuxized, we need a unbloated version of openoffice that can work with >128 Mb of ram and a version of crossover office that supports the Chinese edition of microsoft office.
What if you have it 'specially marked'?
I think the point the fact he got raided and sued. If they had sent his company a polite letter stating that they believed he was in violation of some licenes, please do an audit and check, etc etc then he would have probably complied and everyone (supposedly) is happy.
But no, they wanted to make an example of him and so they did. Its just now its an example of how to get away from that world.
J.
[Hope is the cruellest curse]
This is a case of breaking someone for not following the letter of the contract even though he followed the spirit of the contract and was a good customer all in all. The illegal installations were not used and had the company known about them, no licenses would have been bought -- the installations would simply have been deleted. The BSA-represented companies lost precisely nothing due to this negligence.
"They were using me to sell software, and I just didn't think that was right. Call me first if you think we have a compliance issue. Let's do a voluntary audit and see what's there. They went right for the gut."
he's basically admitting he was under-licenced. he just thinks they needn't have sent the marshalls in first, and then bad-mouthed his company on the news before talking to him
In the article he says that fewer than 8% of the copies in his business were unlicensed, accidentally leftover when they handed computers down with extraneous applications still on them. They're a guitar string company. They were not, on the whole, a piracy-based criminal organization by any stretch of the imagination but they were treated like one by the BSA. And now they are free from that ever happening again.
He got caught because in the process of running a business, he decided not to devote absolutely ridiculuous amounts of time to wiping the harddrives of unused PCs.
And before you accuse the guy of whining, note that he paid his fine, in addition to the presumably hundreds of thousands of legitimate licensing fees that he'd already paid to BSA members.
Now he's doing precisely what a smart businessman should do: recognize that the cost of policing for such tiny violations (and the potential fines that can result) is much higher than the software is worth. He's taking his business elsewhere. And good for him.
No, they don't gloss over it. He specifically states that
a) They weren't using it (but it was unintentionally left installed on the wrong machines.)
and
b) He was willing to make restitution, providing MS had offered him a voluntary audit and a fair price on the 5 machines that were infringing.
He washed his hands of MS because they wanted to make an example out of him. That's a bad way to treat a customer, and he bailed on them.
by who? the BSA are not a law enforcement agency. they have no more rights to sue someone for software piracy than i do.
I don't know for sure, however don't most Oracle Applications run on Redhat Linux?
I'd imagine the accounting department could be an Oracle shop.
He only talked about removing Microsoft....
h
But I've got to tell you, I couldn't have built my business without Microsoft, so I thank them. Now that I'm not so bitter, I'm glad I'm in the position I'm in. They made that possible, and I thank them.
I'll take that to mean that when he needed the software that Open Source wasn't around yet. But I wonder if we'll see that quote used by Microsoft anyway.
DT
Is this thing on? Hello?
Listen to him guys, he's a CEO.
Now I'm going to take those Fenders off, thay don't twang like they used to, and get me some Ernie Balls.
No but, yeah but, no but...
Use the license service on windows, use MS SMS to monitor apps etc
Its theyre own fault, yet they blame MS, go figure.
No sympathy here.
The point is that he wasn't trying to steal.
They were not intending to defraud, just poor computer administration led to some accidental license violations.
The offensive part is they didn't give an opportunity to clean up the mess when it was pointed out by deleting the unused software, or buying the software. They didn't work with him to develop a system to track this, or even give a nice little FAQ to help him out.
Instead of working with their customer, they settled for $100,000, for 6 infringing computers? $17k per computer in fines and penalties. That's ridiculous, all the software is a fraction of that cost.
When a person makes a mistake, it is reasonable to point it out and suggest that more care should be taken to avoid this in the future. Expecting them to pay for any damage they caused is also reasonable.
He had 5 computers in his business with unlicensed software and he's the one that cried unfair.
Not only that, he claims Apple is part owned by Microsoft. That's the power of FUD at work, people.
It'd be ironic and sad if he's done all this switching to linux and then be hit with more SCO licensing crap, and Apple end up the better choice in the end.
Here's hoping the legal system see through SCO's charade.
Please. Every company I have ever worked in is "out of compliance" by some amount. I am talking big firms, small firms and everything in between.
The fact is, if you read the article, that he was most upset by how he was treated by the BSA and Microfoft. Which I am guessing you have never had the pleasure of sitting through, either.
Freedom Is Universal
Linux-Universe
Because of the Berkely Packet Filter, which SCO now claims to own too.
:-)
Now say again that BSD is not dying
The sad thing is that they may well turn out to be using even more illegally licensed software now if sco manage to actually win.
Sig is taking a break!
Give me a break. The company was turned in by a disgruntled employee. Are you telling me that you couldn't be hosed by an employee? All they would have to do is one unauthorized O/S upgrade to an OEM machine, and every pre-installed MS product is now "illegal". Do you check every PC in your company, every day? If not, how do you know that something similar hasn't happened to you?
See, e.g, here:
1 /27/021127hnerniball.xml?s=IDGNS
d er$172
http://archive.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/1
November 27, 2002
http://linux.bryanconsulting.com/stories/storyRea
10 June 2003
1 May 2002
etc. etc.
A little research please, editors
Fuck it
Not only that, he claims Apple is part owned by Microsoft. That's the power of FUD at work, people.
:)
It's only fud if its not true, and it's fact. Since 1997 MS have owned a big part of Apple. There was a large fuss made over it when it first happened but it seems to be all hush-hush nowadays. Something the mac heads can't stand no doubt
[...] the developers need to start writing the real-world applications people need to run a business...engineering, art and design tools, that kind of stuff...They're all trying to build servers that already exist and do a whole bunch of stuff that's already out there...I think there's a lot of room to not just create an alternative to Microsoft but really take the next step and do something new.
This is the argument I always get into when my friends ask me why I don't use Linux or BSD or whatever. There is not enough non-server software out there. GIMP is pretty much the only raster graphics package out there, Win32 has Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Corel Photo Paint, Fireworks, Painter, etc. I can chose between Illustrator, Freehand and Corel Draw for vector graphics. Combustion, Avid, Premiere, After Effects, etc. It's all good and fine that I can write a letter, do my taxes and the like on a *nix machine, but I need to actually work now and then and the applications *still* aren't there.
SCO - he's gonna go postal.
If you can read this sig - the bitch fell off.
Most companies I worked in had "dumb" rules.
Only IS/IT can move computers at all. Computers being the box, docking station, and monitor.
I didn't understand those policies until recently. I thought they were just insulting my ability to plug cords.
I have had to take a heavy hand to the machines and employees here a few times in recent past due to unlicensed software usage. A couple people took it upon themselves to install copies of Autocad on their machines to 'improve their efficeincy'. We do have a couple AC licenses, but not for these machines. One person was suspended the other just given a warning.
As a geek, Ernie's story is pretty cool, and I am happy to say I support the company financially as well by buying their strings.
tinfoilmedia
You can also buy a MusicMan guitar, a slide, some guitar picks... See? Supporting them is pretty easy.
But not only that. He also shows that *there is a way out*. He does not need glorification and hitting the front page is not the goal of itself. The major point is that articles like this sends the message to others: don't like the way MS deals with you? Look here! I switched. It was painless. It saves me money. It makes my stuf work more efficiently. Why don't you consider that too?
That's not news. I think everybody, including Mr Ball, knows that licenses are a responsibility.
However something that you apparently don't know is that people make mistakes. Licenses sometimes fall out of whack. You fix such things in good faith. You try and be a good citizen and you expect similar treatment in return.
This particular company had 8% non-compliance (a half-dozen desktops) and would certainly have remedied the situation given the opportunity. Instead the BSA came in with all guns blazing and stiffed him for $100k.
I can appreciate how Mr Ball felt. He's not a bad person. He didn't intend to have 6 desktops without licenses. He certainly didn't deserve to be treated like he was. He most definitely does not deserve some twit like you spouting off how "lazy" and "ignorant" he was. You pompous little git.
Well, now I'm *definitely* buying a brand new Ernie Ball/Music Man StingRay!
I currently own one 2002 StingRay 4 Unlined Fretless 3EQ in Transparent Gold with Matching Headstock that I bought off of eBay and one 1995 StingRay 4 Unlined Fretless 3EQ in SunBurst that I bought new from an authorized dealer.
I've been lusting after a StingRay 4 Fretted 3EQ in Transparent Red with Matching Headstock and Black Pearloid pickguard with Rosewood fingerboard...
Ernie Ball is a great company that makes products of exceptional quality and offers fantastic customer service (at least, that's my experience with EB/MM).
Glad to see that somebody out there is giving those bastards what they deserve. Fsck MS's strong-arm monopoly tactics!
Mod parent up. This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the article, and the voices have been getting louder in my head for the past 8 months since I tried the ardour beta.
:-)
I work for one of the UC schools. The people i deal with here all know about open source. the CSE guys use it because it is familiar and can do all the basic things.
the creative people DON'T, partly because the gui is not standardized (yeah, yeah) but mostly because the apps just aren't pro quality. GIMP is not photoshop. you can't color match using printing tools. theres no substitute for adobe illustrator. what about after effects, something that is such a hog on memory that it would benefit from being shoved into a beowulf cluster?
I think that a lot of the programmers on this board get caught up in certain types of apps. Just because you don't use something like Finale or cakewalk, or Final Cut Pro yourself does not mean that these apps aren't something people need.
And yes, I know that you need to do it yourself. Who empowers the musicians to do it when most of them can barely check email? what about video editors who need to spend all their time making sure that the latest coke ad gets in your head?
ahh, I am probably just blowing smoke out my rear, but I like sparking discussion and flamewars
Shouldn't all the closed-source vs open-source TCO comparisons include fines like this in the TCO for closed software? It's extremely hard for companies to ensure complete licence compliance, which combined with the difficulty of fighting the BSA makes this something that could happen to any company.
Isn't it standard practice to include potential scenarios like this in business plans, weighted with the probability of it occuring?
Yeah, there are some things that are tough to find, like payroll software. We found something, and it works well. But the developers need to start writing the real-world applications people need to run a business...engineering, art and design tools, that kind of stuff...They're all trying to build servers that already exist and do a whole bunch of stuff that's already out there...I think there's a lot of room to not just create an alternative to Microsoft but really take the next step and do something new.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
He didn't do enough research, if he thinks Apple is partially owned by Microsoft. Microsoft bought $150 million worth of non-voting shares of Apple as part of a lawsuit settlement. Microsoft has since sold those shares.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Current uptime 253 days, apparently they dropped SCO on the web server 3 years ago.
From Netcraft
OSS | Server | Last changed
Linux | Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) PHP/4.2.3 mod_ssl/2.8.12 OpenSSL/0.9.6h | 28-Jan-2003
Linux | Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) PHP/4.2.2 mod_ssl/2.8.10 OpenSSL/0.9.6g | 2-Dec-2002
SCO UNIX | Stronghold/2.4.2 Apache/1.3.6 C2NetEU/2412 (Unix) | 6-Nov-2000
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
He is objecting to the manner in which he was treated as a customer. He objected to the very heavy-handed way they treated it, and to the way they decided to hang him out publicly as an example
So if a shoplifter is caught stealing a bottle of whiskey, or a multipack of cigarettes, or a pack of nappies after shopping there without incident for a period, should he/she be treated leniantly?
In my view, no. It doesnt matter one bloody bit about your past transactions with the person you are ripping off, if you want it, then it is your position to cough up the money. In this case, it seems it was lazyness on his behalf that caused the majority of nonconformity, but that means nothing. He should have ensured that his staff had a policy in place to make sure that he was complaint.
Now, you can bitch all you want about the quality of the software he was infringing on (quite a few slashdotters do, "Oh it isnt worth the amount they ask for it" - not the point.), but it falls to the basic fact that if it wasnt being used, then it shouldnt have been installed. If it was being used, or had been installed, then it should have a unique license.
Please note im not intending to flame you in any way, your post jsut seemed like a good one to reply to to encompass all the other posts in the discussion along the same lines.
A tad draconian on the software control, but nice to hear they were able to make the switch so easily. Makes me want to see what it would take to set up an engineering consulting business. Doesn't have to all be free software, just FAT free (or VFAT free, or NTFS free...you get the idea).
Last time a tried out a set of Earthwoods was a while ago and I wasn't too happy with them. Prefer Dean Markley or Schecter Guitar Research myself. Still, maybe I'll give them another try next time I get strings.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
The sad thing is that they may well turn out to be using even more illegally licensed software now if sco manage to actually win.
... you'll have much better odds than either John Wayne Gacy or SCO.
That is like saying John Wayne Gacy might turn out to be a national hero, if one day we decide the serial killing of innocents (and burying their corpses in your crawl space and beneath your driveway) is the finest thing a citizen can do. Possible, perhaps, but so unlikely as to be laughable. You'd be better off taking bets on the precise moment of the next comet or asteroid strike
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
A note for Sterling:
Dear Mr. Ball, I read the recent article posted on Slashdot and CNET about your transition to Linux after being harassed by the BSA. As a musician, Linux user, and businessman, I was very pleased to read about it. I'm very happy that you've had a good experience with the transition to Linux and wholeheartedly agree with you that the FUD campaign about TCO is a complete farse. Thank you so much for speaking out in favor of Linux and Free Software. Your glowing testimonial will go far in opening peoples' eyes to the benefits of Linux and also toward dispelling the fears surrounding the transitions to Free Software.
Sincerely
Eric Hidle
ehidle@ie-ap.org
He got caught because in the process of running a business, he decided not to devote absolutely ridiculuous amounts of time to wiping the harddrives of unused PCs.
And what if in the course of running his business, he decided not to devote absolutly rediculous amounts of time and money to accounting, or stock control, or quality assurance, or ...... well you get my point. He should have devoted the small amount of time it takes to fdisk the hard disk, or implemented a system which installs and uninstalls applications as needed depending on the person logged into the pc. They exist. Use them.
What they managed to accomplish in every journal where the BSA smeared them. That would be sweet revenge!
My rights don't need management.
My first reaction before reading any postings was "How?".
I understand that the BSA is a civil organization. They can suspect me of software piracy and
wish to audit me, but until they produce a legal search warrant signed by a judge they are
powerless. I would be within my rights to tell them to simply "F*** OFF!".
Apparently this is not the case and I'd like a posting by a more learned mind correcting my information.
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
OMG, what if Ernie Ball happens to be the guy SCO chooses to send a bill to? Poor guy will probably jump off a cliff...
. Ergo sum cogito - Yoda
I just realized that my bass guitar will need its strings replaced soon; I knew about Ernie Ball but never bought from them before.
Time to show my appreciation for their move by giving some support to these guys.
When a person shoots someone by mistake, it is reasonable to point it out and suggest that more care should be taken to avoid this in the future.
I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing more switches from proprietary to oss in the future.
Even if in the IT biz we've accustomed to accepting very very ugly tactics if they're even remotely legally justifiable, it doesn't mean all businesses will want to have anything to do with corporations that employ such if there are alternatives.
Sometimes I wonder when stuff like 'the customer is always right' and such disappeared from the software industry. Well, not all of it. Shops doing custom stuff usually still treat their clients with some respect, at least way better than the large ones with a forcefed product portfolio do. But overall the software biz is starting to resemble some sort of drug pushing operation:
"you know you need our product",
"oh, that was yesterdays price, it's just doubled",
"should you consider not conforming, you can expect a visit from a couple of our friends".
So if a shoplifter is caught stealing a bottle of whiskey, or a multipack of cigarettes, or a pack of nappies after shopping there without incident for a period, should he/she be treated leniantly?
Good grief, settle down. That's not a good analogy for this case. In this case, it's as if your kid tries to carry a pack of gum out of the store along with your $100 of groceries you just bought, and they fine you $5000 and put your picture up in the lobby to make an example out of you and your beligerent child.
There didn't appear to be any intent to pirate in the Ball case, but the BSA was looking for an example for cheap press. They got the press they deserved.
Once again I'm a leading open source supporter without even knowing it. That's how you can tell the true open source leaders, by the way, we lead by example and are always ahead of the curve.
All the best,
--Bob
Definitely "business software" for Linux is starting to appear.
There is an explanation, but apparently you're too stupid to have noticed it. How the heck do you remember to breath without assistance?
Because he says so?
We break the law every day. We drive above the speed limit. Hell, we make illegal copies of music CDs.
We have pay the price accordingly. The question is, how high a price should you have to pay for stolen software?
Is it a misdemeanor or a felony? I'm asking because the overall way we treat it seems like a misconception. We all seem to think that breaking the law with not paying for software is a minor thing, don't we?
If piracy *is* a serious crime, then not knowing what's on your computer is like not remembering whether you paid your taxes. No one cares about it, it's your responsibility. Check your computers twice a day if you can't keep track of whatever you have installed there.
>>What the hell do the Boy Scouts of America want with guitar strings?
>Garrottes for woodchucks.
I almost spit coffee all over my monitor when I read this. Good show.
I checked out Ernie Balls website uptime here and I see they're reaping *way* better reliability on their website if nothing else! ;)
Figures for KG Group are comparable - I'd be willing to guess that Ernie Ball's internal server uptimes are in the one year plus zone too - that's certainly what our clients have found.
Companies moving to an OSS back-end don't go back
I'm assuming these guys didn't have dongles for their illicit AutoCad installs, so to compound their naughtiness they must have been installing warez on the company system.
T&K.
Political language
On top of that it was someone it his own IT department that reported him...who's job it was to maintain compliance! Again, "good faith" would have see a potential set-up here and worked with the guy.
On your way to the chair, which of the following are you going to consider the more legitimate response?
- Information wants to be free! Fight the RIAA!
- The law's the law. I had MP3s on my machine, I deserve to die. It's perfectly simple keep MP3s off of my computers, and I didn't take the necessary precautions, as a responsible business owner, to ensure my employees stayed in full compliance of the law by regularly writing, installing, and running scripts to delete
.MP3 files and cutting off the hands of those employees caught with Kazaa Lite installed on their machines.
- Ok, ok, I broke the law, but don't you think this is just a little bit extreme? I'm perfectly prepared to pay restitution under normal circumstances, but frankly, the RIAA and Congress suck for putting into place these laws and I'm not leaving a penny to Mary Bono in my will.
The answer is probably (3). Heaven help us if it's (1) or (2). My understanding is that Ernie's worldview is also of (3). While we may not be talking about consequences as extreme as the above, we're still talking about a case where the punishment was, in Ernie's opinion, way out of proportion to the crime.It's perfectly legitimate for him to consider that something to complain about. It's also perfectly legitimate for the Slashdot editors to agree with him, because a six digit penalty for an almost certainly accidental three or four digit dollar figure piracy crime does seem just a tad... over the top.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I understand what you are saying.
However, it is also a reality of doing business that you treat your customers with some care even when they are in the wrong, particularily when the problem is due to inattention or negligence, rather than willful infringement. Thjat is, you do so if you want to keep them as customers.
To take a better example: your company sells boxes of widgets to another company periodically. One time it turns out the payment hasn't arrived in time - in fact, it's rather late. Do you:
a) call/send a polite letter to your contact wondering what has happened;
b) have the employee handling this customer visit in person, both to affirm the business relationship, and incidentally remark on the unfortunate delay on the latest payment; or
c) sue them for the full amount, interest due and damages, and hang them out in the trade press as criminal assholes.
If you want to continue selling widgets to them, c is not an option - except if they are so small customers they are irrelevant, or you're so confident on you being irreplaceabe that they will continue buying from you no matter what you do.
If you feel the last approach is fine, I wish you good luck if you would ever decide to go into business.
In any case, the real meat of this piece is not that they became disgruntled, but that Linux does work fine as an alternative for a business of their size.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Where did the Boy Scouts of America even get the right to do this crap to companies...
We never had that much fun in Boy Scouts... =P
Power to the Slinky.
that you can't survive without Microsoft."
Right on, pal, right on. 'Nuff said.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Reality is that no matter how hard you audit your machines, how anal you are, there's always going to be something (at least one program) out there that sneaks through and isn't licensed right. Usually, the unlicensed stuff gets on the network in one of a couple ways...
1) Somebody brought it in from home for business.
2) Somebody brought it in from home for fun.
3) Somebody downloaded it.
4) We just missed one.
(Unfortunately, we use WinBlows so 1-3 are problems for us.)
While I certainly agree that commercial software must be paid for, the penalty for a mistake should be proportional... Not a "revenue shot in the arm" for the vendor if you make a simple accounting mistake.
Now, certainly, systematic copying should be punished, sure. But the Ernie Ball corporation was NOT an example of this. A vast majority of their software was legally purchased, but they paid a $100,000 fine anyway. The fine is beyond disproportionate to the point of absurdity in comparison to their offense.
I think Stuart Ball's decision to change his company to RH and stick it up Microsoft's ass was the absolute right one. Microsoft doesn't have a god-given right to $600,000 per year from my company, nor any company, and the attitude of "$100,000 fine for ALL licensing mistakes!" is just flat out extortion.
(And before you flame me that I need to go to a different back office solution so I can secure my desktops: I KNOW. But I don't have the authority to force it through.)
$100,000? Bah! Everybody should do what Stuart Ball did in a show of empathetic outrage. Do you realize we spend around $200,000 per year in employees (after adding in insurance, taxes, etc) JUST TO COMPLY WITH OUR COMMERCIAL SOFTWARE LICENSES? That's three full-time employees. Not to mention the SUPER expensive software system that costs (ballpark) another $8k per year in "maintenance fees" to keep it all straight.
Posted anonymously because I talk about details. Sorry.
They'll get that back by not having to pay for expensive and MEDIOCRE people in tech support as well sa crappy over priced unreliable software!!!
Right, they could have used Linux. Exactly like they're doing now. Well done, you're the bright pupil in your class, arn't you?
Look, this is simple but teenage wonderkids like yourself don't seem to understand how this sort of things happen.
Ernie Ball had no trouble with Microsoft or Microsoft Software. They're not an IT company, and they simply used what came recommended and worked which was Windows and Office. It was no "hassle" for them; no more than it is for any other organistation running Windows. They didn't care about using Linux because Windows worked for them, and they were happy with it. They weren't using "warezed" copies and they believed they were in full compliance with the licence terms. If you ask any organisation, they'll tell you the same thing; they believe they are 100% in compliance. As with any organisation though, no matter how many policies, procedures and checkpoints you have in place, people will slip up and a mistake will go unnoticed.
Turns out that the BSA decided that helping them correct a few mistakes was too much trouble, and it would be much better to turn up at the door with armed marshalls to turn the place over and gouge them for a few hundred thousand dollars. Ernie Ball does not dispute that they were not in compliance; they admit it, and they know how it happened, and it was a mistake. The BSA didn't care, and treated Ernie Ball like some criminal undergroup piracy ring, and attempted to "make an example" out of them.
If you lived in the real world you'd know how this can happen and why the BSA tactic of kicking doors down is unfair, heavy handed and pisses of companies like Ernie Ball who purchased their software in good faith, only to be let down by their infallable human-ness and subsequently get ass-reamed for it by a bunch of thugs. Maybe one day you'll understand this before its too late for you. At the moment you sound as though you never make mistakes. Do you? Of course you do. One day you'll have to deal with similiar problems, during the course of your career. Yes, you will. Learn to live with the idea now, please.
And they dumped SCO a while back too according to Netcraft.
/.'ers can love or what? ;)
Man, is the a company
Look, the guy screwed up, and he admitted it. He paid the $100,000 fine for his carelessness (for six unlicensed machines... talk about punitive), but was then publically humiliated by Microsoft and the BSA. That's just plain wrong.
But now he no longer needs to jump through hoops to keep his systems free of unlicensed software. Why the hell should you need to implement "a system which installs and uninstalls applications as needed depending on the person logged into the pc"? The answer: you don't. It's just that most people (including you, apparently) don't understand that.
Accounting and stock control are necessary parts of running a business. Paying money to a company whose software you don't actually need (and spending resources making sure said software is always in the right place at the right time) is not necessary.
Dude, you got modded up for trolling!
150-200 clients is lucky with 2 or 3 IT people? Man, where I work we have 4 people for about 400 clients, a lot of servers, and we give support to our international affiliates... 200 clients would be a permanent vacation. *lol*
home
So if a shoplifter is caught stealing a bottle of whiskey, or a multipack of cigarettes, or a pack of nappies after shopping there without incident for a period, should he/she be treated leniantly?
... which brings me to my third point. The whiskey theif is persumed innocent until guilt is proven.
The irony of the situation you described is that the person who stole the cigarets or whiskey will be treated a hell of a lot more leniently then Mr Ball was.
Considering:
- The whiskey theif removed physical object. That object cost the vendor money so the vendor actualy LOST money rather then simply not reciving it.
- The whiskey theif is not repsonsible for paying the legal fees to prove his innocence...
-
I certainly agree that software piracy is a bad thing. The manner in which it happend at Ball (vast majority of their systems were perfectly licenced, and the volated machines seem unintentional) the logical thing from the BSA would have been to make Ball pay for the licences plus a small fine.
Personaly I fail to see this as similar to a man stealing something from a store. To use the store example accurately it would be more like this:
A man after buying whiskey and smokes accidently walks out of the store with the nappies.
Should the store owner:
A.) Call the police and have the man arrested for something obviously unintentional, to make an "Example" of the person.
B.) Approach the person in the parking lot or wherever letting them know they forgot to pay for the nappies.
Wouldn't going to the cafeteria or out on the balcony for a 10 minute talk, laugh, cup of coffee or a smoke help someone relax better than playing Minesweeper or browsing the Web? It would helps the body and the mind better than keeping on crouching in front of the computer. I've seen a company once where they had a lounge room complete with toy basketball sponge ball and hoop. As long as people remind to not abuse the privilege it works better than anything they could've done on their PC to "relax".
This is what I keep thinking when Slashdotters criticize the BSA's heavy-handed methods or Microsoft's draconian EULAs... that's all self-inflicted! All those users are doing it to themselves. I say let the proprietary software world go on like this; they are slowly running out of steam anyway. And it all just serves to illustrate what you get yourself into when you choose to run monopolyware. Anyone who wants to avoid this has plenty of alternatives open to them.
Or, he could use software from companies that don't require him to do this. In fact, it appears the raid did prompt Ernie Ball to audit its computers and use. Ernie Ball decided 1) it did not want to deal with companies that treated it badly; and 2) it did not need the products those companies sold.
Sounds simple to me. Why are you so stressed about it? Do companies have some sort of DUTY to use only Microsoft software?
How can a private entity, such as the BSA, raid somone 'without warning'?
Since when have they become a govermental agency?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Surprising that a CEO would rule out Macs due to a misconception. Microsoft had to dole out money for non-voting Apple stock because Apple had legal action against them. To say that purchasing Apple products benefits Microsoft, is like saying buying a Condo in South Africa benefits me because I own part of planet Earth (1/2 acre).
That being said, open source was still his best move, since it required no hardware change and no OS upgrade fees.
They haven't owned Apple stock in years. And it was always non-voting.
Yes actually they do.
First degree murder has a harsh penalty.
Manslaughter and has a much less harsh penalty.
Still a punishment, but they do take into account the intent.
If I have read the Article correctly the BSA was accompanied by armed marshals and therefore must have had a search warrant for the offices of Ernie Ball. What I do not understand is why the BSA even could get such warrants.
In Germany where I live only the district attorney can issue such warrants and only the police or federal agencies may search buildings using that warrant. The person(s) who made the allegations may not even be present during the search.
And since shrink-wrap licences are (still) illegal in germany the BSA would not even get the district attorney to issue such a warrant since only common contractual law applies to software purchases.
So they can go to my office but I don't have to let them in.
Giving some pressure group federal powers seems a bit odd to me.
Us business owners need BUSINESS applications. We don't need servers. We don't needs cutesy tools. We need some business apps. If someone wanted to sell me an OSS package, all ready to go, I'd look at it. As is, I'd have to cobble it together myself, and I just don't have the time. Software is just another tool, and nobody who's in business has time or money to dick around with software. If someone came to me and said, "we can set up your POS workstations for you at $1000 each, I'd be all over it. I don't want to have to hunt around for an OS, figure out how to configure the goddamned thing, then find some POS software, then figure out how to install it, configure it, compile it, whatever.
Yes, that is exactly what I'd expect to happen.
It is called economics. It is a consequence of physics.
I suppose you support a legal ruling requiring everyone to use scribes to duplicate books, too?
I forget what 8 was for.
i've always loved ernie ball--super slinky--and now there's one more reason.
plus you have to like this guy's non-confrontations zen like ability to learn from the crap that m$ dealt him.
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
Because he says so?
Yes. What other evidence do you have? Ocoms razor applies here.
I'll say that they changed the rules midgame. I'd bet most people even today are under the impression that if they bought something they own it. Computers and software were no different.
A few years ago the consumer software industry wanted to start enforcing the per-user licensing. Of course the technology for enforcing per-user licensing has been around since the 80's. So don't even bother mentioning the "anti-copying" technologies.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Anyone see the irony that he pretty well recovered the amount of the fine in one hit when he went open source? I guess he must be well ahead by now.
Uh oh! What is the RIAA going to think about this. String-Makers that help make the music they copyright....USING COPYWRITED SCO CODE! HOLY CRAP, KILL EM ALL!
huh?
-- begin quote
...
Ernie Ball is pretty much known as a musician's buddy. How does it feel to be a technology guru, as well?
The myth has been built so big that you can't survive without Microsoft.
I think it's great for me to be a technology influence. It shows how ridiculous it is that I can get press because I switched to OpenOffice. And the reason why is because the myth has been built so big that you can't survive without Microsoft, so that somebody who does get by without Microsoft is a story.
It's just software. You have to figure out what you need to do within your organization and then get the right stuff for that. And we're not a backwards organization. We're progressive; we've won communications and design awards...The fact that I'm not sending my e-mail through Outlook doesn't hinder us. It's just kind of funny. I'm speaking to a standing-room-only audience at a major technology show because I use a different piece of software--that's hysterical.
Look, when you've got Windows 98 not being supported, NT not being supported, OS/2 not being supported--if you're a decision maker in the IT field, you need to be able to look at Linux as something that's going to continue to be supported. It's a major consideration when you're making those decisions.
Has Microsoft tried to win you back?
Microsoft is a growing business with $49 billion in the bank. What do they care about me? If they cared about me, they wouldn't have approached me the way they did in the first place...And I'm glad they didn't try to get me back. I thank them for opening my eyes, because I'm definitely money ahead now and I'm definitely just as productive, and I don't have any problems communicating with my customers. So thank you, Microsoft.
-- end quote
Some great comments. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to understand the "free as in speech" of "free software":
"You see, I'm not in this just to get free software. No. 1, I don't think there's any such thing as free software. I think there's a cost in implementing all of it."
Nor does he say anything about contributing back to the open source community. But there's no question that open source has changed Ernie Ball's day to day operations and cut their expenses.
I realize this may be slightly off-topic, but could someone from /. get that IT department to possibly field a few questions? Such as how they planned & executed the move, the size of the installed base, etc...I'd really like to see how they got that move made so fast.
I never thought I'd be defending Windows...
Give each employee a computer as a bonus to use at work along with a list of recommended software.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Your post is evidence that some kind of severe Darwinism needs to blight the Linux community before it becomes better. You can't honestly advocate free software if you turn around like a brat and yell at people who are trying to use free software but criticize the selection. If businesses are having trouble finding basic business applications, Microsoft retains its power. End of discussion. Mr. Ball mentioned that he had some proprietary applications developed. I can only speculate that means the missing applications he's talking about. On the other side, I'd be interested to know why he hasn't GPL'd his proprietary applications or at least donated a generalized GPL version of whatever he made. That's worth yelling about.
Laws are for people with no friends.
I tell you what, our hits to eBay went down greatly when not everybody had a Web browser. For somebody whose job is filling out forms all day, invoicing and exporting, why do they need a Web browser? The idea that if you have 2,000 terminals they all have to have a Web browser, that's crazy. It just creates distractions.
/., thereg etc.
I don't know if I can advocate Linux to the business side any more if it means I might lose the ability to read
Any business should keep records of ALL purchases.. Even toilets and software.. really even private citizens should too..
.. and in this day and age for audits, like this.
If nothing else, for insurance reasons, and to show 'net worth' to the investors
I have proof of purchase for my Toilet.. do you?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There are plenty of sound rational reasons to use open source software. Arn't these anti-microsoft rants simply preaching to already converted hot heads?
The sound reasons are what should ultimately guide you.
Your use of terms like "rants" and "hot heads" got my attention. Communities tend to naturally form where people feel strongly about something.
There seems to be a notion on slashdot that having any passion about your software is somehow a bad thing. Nobody seems to think there is anything wrong with having strong feelings about other political issues. People proudly line up and declare a party. The lines are clearly drawn.
I'll admit it. I feel strongly about open source. I'm biased. I try not to let it affect my evaluating and decision making. In my experience, the people (usually Microsoft zealots) who claim to be un-biased, are the most biased people of all. (But not just on the Microsoft side either.) I'll say it again, people who claim to be unbiased, are sometimes the most biased.
Finally, for those who would suggest that slashdot weenies are the only ones who are fanatical about their software, I only have this to say....
developers, developers, Developers, Developers, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!, DEVELOPERS!!
and...
Whooooo! Give it up for me! I have only four words to say: I LOVE THIS COMPANY!
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
How does the BSA know you have some of their member's software, and thus *might* be breaking license and are a good target for a raid?
Either you've registered your software and the software vendor shared the list with the BSA, or you were stupid enough to call up the BSA after seeing one of their ads and asking for assistance with license compliance auditing.
The TRUE lesson to be learned from the BSA is pirate ALL software published by BSA members... then there is no record of your company in their databases. Just make sure you don't ever email them from Outlook or via an Exchange server unless you can 'correct' the headers appropriately.
I got the impression they installed the software from the 'hand-me-down' on the new computer they put together. Now they had two machines and one license. All the MS OEM weirdness seemed to be about seperating the copy of Windows from the machine, not who was using the machine.
Lastly, to the original poster, apostrophes go where the missing letters were. ^_^
I've built up so much character I have an alter-ego
Thats fair enough, but note that he only switched to alternative software when he got caught. No, companies do not have a duty to use MS products, but they do have a duty to ensure they are using the licenses correctly. In this case he didnt, and it was out of pure lazyness of not uninstalling software when it was no longer needed on that PC.
Sorry, but it's (Word or Excel 97/2000/XP incompatibilities) a daily event here, in a major consulting engineering company that works with your big-league manucturers and oil companies. PowerPoint isn't a big deal but Word and Excel (and Access and Project) are real problems. We receive and produce hundreds of documents a week using the Microsoft office suite and every day at least one produced by one version isn't readable in another version. Hell, I've used OpenOffice to get access to Word and Excel XP documents that Word or Excel 2000 couldn't open. I've done the same thing to cross-export Word97 docs to WordXP. And a lot of the time I use the open source PDFWriter to create a PDF from OOWrite so that everyone in the office can read it. As far as I'm concerned that's wasted time when I could be improving/expanding the IT infrastructure. Microsoft just doesn't play fair cricket and I'm tired of it. I just wish the IT chief (my boss) would get her head out of the sand.
1. Spot potential client
2. Make an educated guess as to what unlicensed software they might have.
3. Shop them to industry-'anti-piracy'-body via anonymous phone call
4. Wait for client to be raided
5. After enough dust has settled, casually step forward, drawing attention to your company's Linux distro (taking care not to seem to be blatantly capitalizing on their misfortune).
6. PROFIT!!!!!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Oh well, if I need some really cheap strings, they'll be at the top of my list.
One Can Never Own Enough Musical Instruments...
- I'm not making calls to Red Hat; I don't need to. I think that's propaganda...What about the cost of dealing with a virus? We don't have 'em. How about when we do have a problem, you don't have to send some guy to a corner of the building to find out what's going on--he never leaves his desk, because everything's server-based. There's no doubt that what I'm doing is cheaper to operate. The analyst guys can say whatever they want.
Hurrah! Someone finally cut through all the bullshit, and basically said it straight. Take that you buzzword speaking analyst! Begone back to the hellish dimension that spawned you!"It should also consider potential SCO lawsuits. Hidden costs do not only apply to closed source software."
Yes, one should consider the cost of FUD.
Well, that's it for me then - I'm going to buy Ernie Ball strings from now on. Actually, all strings seem pretty much the same to me, what with massive distortion and high volumes, so why not support people who have er.. Balls? (sorry)
A disgruntled employee or contractor can easily rat your company out to BSA.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Why was the parent post modded down as a troll? oh, that's right, the person that posted this is not an elite idi^h^h^hgeek that talks about porn and cusses every other word and that talked against linux. the idiot that modded the person down is the troll. Mod the parent up as funny, it was meant to be a Joke, Lighten up! Oh, that's right, if you're not an elite tro^h^h^Hgeek, then you should be modded into oblivion.
Why the hell should you need to implement "a system which installs and uninstalls applications as needed depending on the person logged into the pc"? The answer: you don't. It's just that most people (including you, apparently) don't understand that.
If he is going to use software that requires a careful eye on its usage to ensure you do not infringe, then they need to implement some sort of system, rather than praying to some sort of diety that the software will magically stay infringment free. My suggestion was along the lines of Zenworks or similar, which exist and do the job i was suggesting. If you do not want to implement even a paper-and-pen system, then simply stay away from that software, simple as that (and that is what he has done in this case)
I think its people like you that dont understand that license violation is real, and can be avoided. Either go use a product under a less constricted license, or implement a system which ensures you dont fall into the trap that this guy did.
Accounting and stock control are necessary parts of running a business. Paying money to a company whose software you don't actually need (and spending resources making sure said software is always in the right place at the right time) is not necessary.
Accounting and stock control are parts of running a business, but so is software license control unless you specifically take action to the contrary. This guy didnt, and so have many millions of other businesses. Therefor their business should have some control in it for software, if not ugly things like this happen.
After reading this article, SCO will probably try and extort licensing fees, because they now know they're a linux shop. Fortunatley, the BSA won't be involved here, and they will be able to afford to fight back.
Hardly sounds lazy taking the trouble to convert his entire business to Linux.
The point of the story is he went from one OS where its easy to end up with armed police on your doorstep to one that not only is free but means you don't have to worry about being intimidated for making mistakes.
no sig.
We are getting paid to improve free software developer tools, server software, productivity tools, and hardware support, so that is what we do.
If you want us to write accounting software, pay us to do so. It is not something we are going to do for fun.
Well he won't pay microsoft a penny... but the SCO might hit him even harder.
as a resurrected guitarist with a new band I was wondering what kind of strings to use nowadays. I used to play Ernie Ball and liked them. Mostly because I was a teenager and they were cheapest at the store around the corner. But now I have a real reason to support them. I will purchase some tomorrow and set them up for our next gig.
I wish to see more companys switching to Linux so I can justify purchasing even more of their products.
Some would be:
- McDonalds
- Toysrus
- Marlboro
- Becks
Let's see, how can we support/justify this particular thief?
/. route...
Let's go the usual
1. But he didn't steal alot of software!
The article says an audit "turned up a few dozen unlicensed copies of programs". The guy himself is quoted as saying that 8% of all his desktops were "out of compliance" (read: Containing stolen software). Thats enough.
2. But he wasn't purposefully trying to steal the software!
Ignoring EULAs and then crying ignorance just don't cut it anymore bubba. Paying closer attention to his operations, including IT licesning, probably would have prevented any problems at all, no?
3. But he wasn't warned over and over again about his stealing of software!
No, they didn't hold his hand and say "We forgive you for stealing all our shit, good buddy. But please phase it out whenever you feel like it."
4. But he's the poor 'little guy' being targeted and pushed around by the big bad BSA!
No excuse. Two wrongs can't spit out a right. Don't project your own misdeeds onto another. Individual accountablity anyone?
5. But he didn't get to choose his own punishment for getting caught stealing software!
Someone wrote earlier..."He was willing to make restitution, providing MS had offered him a voluntary audit and a fair price..."
LOL, guess what? When you break the law and get caught, you aren't the one calling the shots. How very gracious of this guy to offer to make ammends for his thefts...on his own terms.
I can't stand lame defenses for theft, but I did enjoy the article. Captialism at its finest. No monopolies to see here, move along. A Buyer dooesn't like a product or how a seller treats them? Finds a new product and seller. Good stuff. Free market baby, its not just for breakfast anymore.
Obviously none of the companies sponsoring the BSA have ever stolen anything from any one.
www.bsa.org says:
BSA members include Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Avid, Bentley Systems, Borland, CNC Software/Mastercam, Internet Security Systems, Macromedia, Microsoft, Network Associates and Symantec.
And why are there so many anti piracy companies??
FAST,BSA, ELSPA etc
Because they stole the idea from another anti piracy company.
not anymore, he plays Peavey guitars.
They're more or less copies of his EB/MM signature guitar, but still, they are not EB/MM.
>Any thoughts on SCO's claims on Linux?
I don't know the merits of the lawsuit, but I run their Unix and I'm taking it off that system. I just don't like the way it's being handled. I feel like I'm being threatened again.
BWAAAAAA HAAAA HAAA. Take that SCO Beotches.
I'm an IT tech at my firm, and I have spent the last two weeks auditing software, and I'm only half done. Ours is a SMALL company, 40 computers tops. My wages for two weeks out of every three months is something I'm sure my company does not include when it looks at buying Software.
:)
But thats not all. It takes about 40mins per workstation for the fisrt phase. Thats 40mins of lost computer time for an Architect thats paid a lot more then I am.
Installing non-free software also has extra costs. Typing in, and cat-o-loging all those new serial numbers takes time.
Hell, just the *act* of buying software costs money. Getting diffrent quotes, waiting (or paying) for shipping, dealing with invoices (which, for a large company, must take up at least a good percentage of the accounts departments time)
Where as with free software, just click and download.
Of course, if my company was all free software, I'd prolly be part time instead of full time. So free software is bad for me, Go Microsoft!
Right. Damn. Of course, then I'd have to break his legs just on principal. :)
But the IT guy of the company is responsible for wiping harddrives, not the CEO. And it's the same IT guy who ratted them out.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
ASK Corel to port their packages to Linux.
ASK Adobe to put their software on Linux.
TELL them that you'll buy it.
DONT ask me to write one for you.
...I'm switching to Ernie Ball strings. No better way to show your support than with cold, hard cash :-)
"And what if in the course of running his business, he decided not to devote absolutly rediculous amounts of time and money to accounting, or stock control, or quality assurance, or ...... well you get my point."
Except it's not valid. You shouldn't devote rediculous amounts of time to any of these. Accountants don't overrun most companies, because although you should keep accurate books, the rules for doing so are made by accounting professionals, not some external organization trying to sell you something. However, to run a proprietary IT shop within the rules, it simply requires HUGE amounts of manpower. IT can easily become 20% of your staff. Now, most companies opt to do a "mostly-okay" approach, where IT is still a lot bigger than it should be, but manageable. However, to run a proprietary IT shop properly, it really does take "absurdly rediculous" amounts of time.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Any thoughts on SCO's claims on Linux?
I don't know the merits of the lawsuit, but I run their Unix and I'm taking it off that system. I just don't like the way it's being handled. I feel like I'm being threatened again.
This guy is my hero. The fact that a non-tech company [and the owner of such company] has his sh*t together when it comes to this kind of thing gives me a small glimmer of hope.
I'm in the process of starting up my own small business and I assure you we will get along just fine without using Microsoft products, except maybe their mice. I really like the Intellimouse Optical. There will be no Microsoft software though. Or SCO for that matter but I doubt I would have ever used them anyway.
Ender
Nothing to see here
Righto. The basis for all such penalties whether copyright infringement or theft of real property is the intent to do something wrong. This guy makes an honest assertion that he never meant to do anything wrong.
I've noticed this problem where I work, and its scary to beleive you can incur a six-figure fines over this type thing. Example: You have 20 licenses but the software is installed on 23 machines. However, only 12 people in your organization could possibly make use of it. A company that isn't IT-centric might think they're ok...."well, I overlicensed just to be sure.". Sure its your fault you're not fully in compliance, but the enormous fines are just a money grab, and completely unwarranted
Hardly sounds lazy taking the trouble to convert his entire business to Linux.
The lazyness caused him to get into a situation needing such a drastic switch in the first place. If he hadnt been lazy then he could have switched the company over anyway, and had extra money to play with as well.
The point of the story is he went from one OS where its easy to end up with armed police on your doorstep to one that not only is free but means you don't have to worry about being intimidated for making mistakes.
To me it looks very much like he took that route very much out of spite "I dont like what they did to me, so ill go and do this", which is fair enough. Now if he had switched out of his own initiative, then this would never have happened, and this would be more of a triumph for OSS rather than it being seen as a company being essentially forced down the road.
Didn't have a lot to contribute towards the conversation except that this guy sounds like a really cool boss. I have yet to come across a business around here where they aren't using any Microsoft products. It almost sounds weird that an average business guy would adopt that way of thinking.
And how about this gem from the parent - Making him into a martyr for open source only legitimises the belief that linux is free software (free as in beer) and, to some point, that only software "pirates" (sic) use it. What the hell, is this some weird new form of astroturfing or just up-front stupidity? Didja miss the part where CEO Ernie Ball says "You see, I'm not in this just to get free software. No. 1, I don't think there's any such thing as free software"? More to the point, he makes it totally clear that while the original impulse was fueled by anger at the way he was treated as a customer, mind you, that the continued support of open source software is informed by the belief that it's a financial winner for his business.
This story totally deserved a front page. Ernie Ball comes across as a smart, no-nonsense businessman who made open source work in a business setting and found out that there were plenty of benefits beyond getting rid of Microsoft. It's a fine case study and well worth reporting. Martyr for open source - sheesh, hit the dictionary.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Of course I understand that license violation is real.
Here's a clue for you: people make mistakes. Yes, they really do. This guy made a mistake, and he paid the penalty for his carelessness. That's all well and good. What is not well and good (and what you're conveniently ignoring) is the way he was subsequently treated by Microsoft and the BSA. You simply don't treat customers like that and expect them to remain customers.
Accounting and stock control are parts of running a business, but so is software license control unless you specifically take action to the contrary. This guy didnt..
I'm not disputing that he didn't. But he has done so now, which is sort of the point of the whole article, and his business is doing better for it. Fair play to him. He didn't have to follow your slightly bizarre suggestion of licensing yet more software just to keep track of what software he had licensed, because he no longer needs to waste time and money on tracking what he's supposed to use and what he isn't.
I used Rotosound for mnany years then switched to Ernie Ball about 12 years ago. I like a real bright tone so I change them often. I go through lots of sets of 4 and 5 string regular slinky bass. I've never had a bad string from Ernie Ball. I can't say the same of Rotosound, GHS or D'Addario. Reading a story like this only strenghtens my loyalty.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
What if SCO reads that article, and decides to make him the first "end user" sued?:-jmw
Don't have anything to say except that Ernie Ball has just made a lifetime customer out of me. Everytime I buy guitar strings I'll make a point of mentioning that I use Ernie Ball's because that company has the integrity to abandon software developed by a company convicted of attacking the American free market economy. Being unemployed and/or finding better jobs is almost always a sensitive subject in guitar stores. I'm not some zealot who wantonly blames Microsoft for our current economic situation in the USA, but the regulations against abusing monopolistic powers are good laws because they protect the vitality of our market economy. Though practically unpunished, Microsoft indeed broke those laws, and every unemployed person whose job is/was affected by the technology sector ought to consider not only the direct actions of Microsoft's criminal activity but also the far reaching implications of stifling competition and stagnating their niche of the economy. Anyway, Ernie Ball, you've easily sold another 20 sets of strings annually. A measly drop in the bucket, but perhaps more importantly you've gained an advocate for your pragmatic business sense, patriotic software use (intentional or not), and I've got to admit the management really has some Balls (tm). Keep it up and enjoy the business.
You may want to check your facts on that one.
Here's a quote from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
"n.
1. Informal. A quotation.
2. A quotation mark.
3. Used by a speaker to indicate the beginning of a quotation.
4. A dictum; a saying."
>his main problem was ... the way the BSA raided his company
I don't get it. How is it that a private (e.g. "non-government") agency, in this case the BSA, can "raid" a business? They have no more legal right to enter private property and go pawing through someone's systems & records than I do -- that is to say, none. It seems clear that if the BSA attempt to force their way into private property, then they are trespassing.
Why couldn't Ernie Ball, Inc. simply turn them away when the BSA showed up at the door (and give them a good, swift kick in the pants on the way out)?
I have an Ernie Ball Music Man guitar, and love it very much. It has the the best feeling neck I've ever put my left hand on...just the right thickness at each spot along its length, and the contoured joint where it mates with the guitar body feels really nice when playing up high. If you're shopping for a new axe, go out of your way to play a Music Man guitar. You won't regret it.
;-)
Oh, and "hurray for linux"
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
Apple thought that a big investment in them by Microsoft would be good PR. Unfortunately I think it has backfired in the long term.
I think Steve Jobs needs to publicly bitch slap Bill Gates to get the message out that Apple ain't nobody's boy.
One of my superiors at work always brings this up. Sometimes I feel like slapping her silly.
You're a fucking lunatic right? The fact that the BSA has more rights than the DEA makes no difference, does it? Or the fact that one pays the BSA lawyer's fees from day one makes no difference either, does it?
You sound soooo bitter. Must be an MS troll boy.
Pfft, my company was audited after being turned in by a disgruntled employee. We were sued and settled for $750k. And then we had to buy a $750k site license.
But on the plus side we have the entire catalog of Microsoft software available for as many desktops and servers as we want.
Yeah, that worked out great last time with Clinton. It acomplished nothing but wasted everyone's time. Once an impeachment is passed the trial is only a formality and he's supposed to be gone. Just another example of twisting the system until you get what you want.
Wicked now my super slinkies are helping support open source..im gonna break strings twice as fast now so red hat get rich and M$ get poor
YAY for ernie ball
The TRUE lesson to be learned from the BSA is pirate ALL software published by BSA members... then there is no record of your company in their databases.
:-)
I can't decide if this is +5 Insightful or +5 Funny
The company had purchased licenses for AutoCAD and M$ software, just not enough for everyone. This was pretty well-known, but like many companies, overlooked. Employees commonly burned copies of licensed software for personal use, and the license management system was...well...nonexistent.
One day the owner got a form letter from the BSA...one of the infamous "we'll give you 3 months to come into compliance, otherwise you could face an audit." This sent the owner into a flurry of making sure all software was properly licensed.
The BSA never came knocking on the door, and the owner probably spent thousands on licenses. This was probably a good thing overall, but I question the "flurry" of activity that took place at the receipt of a form letter.
I know the original article here said federal marshalls came knocking on the door, but is this common? Should one take this to mean there was a warrant? Can a warrant only be obtained when the BSA has firsthand info, such as from a disgruntled employee?
I would not have been nearly as quick to jump at the BSA letter as was the owner of the company I worked for...at least not without having consulted an attorney first.
***
Radio Shack. You've got questions...we've got blank stares(TM).
That attitude works great until someone plugs an infected laptop into the corporate network.
It's always a long day... 86400 doesn't fit into a short.
But the developers need to start writing the real-world applications people need to run a business...engineering, art and design tools, that kind of stuff...They're all trying to build servers that already exist and do a whole bunch of stuff that's already out there...I think there's a lot of room to not just create an alternative to Microsoft but really take the next step and do something new.
His point is that business people need to run a business, but that most open source programmers are writing stuff for programmers.
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
For once, this story really is about *free* software, not *open source* software. The point here is not really about how much it costs, well it just happens to cost less, but it also shows that *freedom* matters to businesses just as much as they matter to bearded MIT gurus.
I have been using Ernie Ball strings for years and I will continue to use them with a renews exuberance now.
Not only do they sound great, they are usually cheaper than other strings, and break less often than other strings in my experience. When I was gigging quite often with my old band, I relied on these strings to get me through the night without breaking. I seemed to break all of the other brands (GHS, D'Addario, SIT) I tried without much effort, but the Ernie Balls held up.
The fact that they can produce a superior product for a lower price always impressed me. Maybe now that they've switched to OSS, they can sell their strings for even cheaper (or get a higher profit margin and use some of the extra money to fund OSS projects!).
...the Deck is stacked in favor of BSA:
Did you want to settle?
Never, never. That's the difference between the way an employee and an owner thinks. They attacked my family's name and came into my community and made us look bad. There was never an instance of me wanting to give in. I would have loved to have fought it. But when (the BSA) went to Congress to get their powers, part of what they got is that I automatically have to pay their legal fees from day one. That's why nobody's ever challenged them--they can't afford it. My attorney said it was going to cost our side a quarter million dollars to fight them, and since you're paying their side, too, figure at least half a million. It's not worth it. You pay the fine and get on with your business. What most people do is get terrified and pay their license and continue to pay their licenses. And they do that no matter what the license program turns into.
Question is, even if you win, do you still have to pay the BSA lawyers?
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
While it is true that some computers and users don't need internet access, i.e. critical process machines, cutting it off all together is bad for employee morale, especially when some have it and some don't. Additionally, with the workday as it is now, the employees' breaktime or lunch or sometimes even during regular hours may be the only opportunity they have to take care of personal business. And even beyond those aspects, it is actually good for employee productivity to have some diversion while at work.
If you are concerned about overuse, filter sites employees use or bytes transferred or access hours. There all sorts of ways to manage internet access without cutting it out all together.
The internet, like anything else, can be abused and overused while at work. Milly the office clerk can blow the whole day talking on the phone, regardless of whether or not you turn her internet on or off. The bottom line is that goofing off at work was occuring long before the internet was even a twinkle in some engineers eye (while daydreaming at his regular job no doubt). It's a fact of business life, and its well known.
Your post suggests that you are of the "employee is the enemy" managerial mindset. Its bad for the morale of your employees and also their productivity. If they are able to complete their assigned work in the time allotted, what is the problem?
"Please don't apply for a job where I work."
I don't think I will have a problem with that directive.
That's what you get for creating disgruntled employees...
Still, unless you have a prosecutor willing to prosecute a crime, (a *CRIME*, not a civil matter), and unless you have a magistrate willing to hear the case, there should never be a search warrant issued for anything!
I hear about "BSA" raids, but they are really government raids with the BSA acting as a witness for the prosecution. The prosecutor is never named in these articles. Neither is the judge who signed the order.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
luckily, my friend is a good sport, but he definitely knew he'd been had-i just wish i had it on video!
-mojo
(And by the way, with matter replication technologies, why would Ford still bother to employ the thousands of people they do now? Presumably, your fears are of a massive economic impact caused by an entire industry shutting down. Well, it would still massively downsize, causing the vast majority of that impact, while further concentrating the wealth of the owners. All you've managed to do is to make sure only a select few are allowed to benefit.)
Of course, this is nothing but a fun hypothetical. But we do see the same thing happening right now with intangibles. Throughout history, law has always evolved to keep some semblance of sync with reality. Sometimes, this is done rationally. Sometimes, you get the French Revolution. Which would you prefer?
Propping up industries that cannot adapt to a technological advance through legal methods is always doomed to fail, and always costs the economy as a whole more value than it produces. (It is still a favorite activity, because it always enriches some while taking in smaller amounts from everyone else.
Like I said before, this is economics, which is an implication of physics. Many people have tried, but getting in an argument about fairness with physics generally hasn't proven to be a gainful past time, as anyone who has fallen down the stairs or wrecked thier car will confirm to you.
I forget what 8 was for.
Policing existing software isn't too bad. New licenses get either stuck in a master drawer, or better with the computer they are used on so you don't have to do a count.
Now, if you are a larger organization, you can do network installations and then limit the amount of client connections. This usually works with a lot of licenses, because you can ensure that no more than X users are ever able to run software at a time - though it may be accessible on >1 machine (samba does this nicely, BTW).
However, here is where the shit hits the fan: users. Users that have a program at home, and want to use it at work. Users who know anti-piracy rules, but seem to think that "installing this little program" isn't a problem. So, here, we freeze all our computers so that on reboot they revert to a previous state. Only those with a password (aka the techs) can install software.
And of course, we have to ensure that kazaa, etc are blocked in the firewall, etc etc. Again, the users. Oh, and as a note, I work in schools, and the users I speak of are more-often-than-not staff, not students. It's a bit sad really...
In the article, he guessed that a disgruntled former employee ratted him out to the BSA.
:)
You *did* read the article, right?
I'm not disputing that he didn't. But he has done so now, which is sort of the point of the whole article, and his business is doing better for it. Fair play to him. He didn't have to follow your slightly bizarre suggestion of licensing yet more software just to keep track of what software he had licensed, because he no longer needs to waste time and money on tracking what he's supposed to use and what he isn't.
Im not saying he needs to do it now, what im saying is that if he had done it before, he wouldnt have had to go to these lengths and loose that amount of money. He could have still made the switch, but at his own discretion rather than seeming to have been pushed.
Dont get me wrong, this is a good thing. Yes he made a mistake, but guess what, people get penalised for making mistakes, which is a good reason to try and be as vigilant so as not to make those mistakes in the first place.
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall from an earlier account of this incident that the ex-employee who ratted on them was the one responsible for tracking licenses. He knew that they were out of compliance because he didn't do his job properly.
So what did swearing off Microsoft entail? We looked at all the alternatives. We looked at Apple, but that's owned in part by Microsoft. (Editor's note: Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple in 1997.)
Somewhere, a man wearing a black turtleneck is going, "Doh!"
From the slashdot intro: After being raided by the BSA in 2000 without warning and fined $100,000 for a few unlicensed copies of software,
From the article:In 2000, the Business Software Alliance conducted a raid and subsequent audit at the San Luis Obispo, Calif.-based company that turned up a few dozen unlicensed copies of programs
There's a diffrence between a 'few' and a 'few dozen'. One is about 12 times as much, in fact...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
That's a logo they used to put on t-shirts they gave away to retailers.
As a professional musician I've decided that I'll purchase their strings exclusively. Bless their heads for making the right decision for the right reasons !
Fighting the digital revolution every step of the way, eh ? Have you ever done something that made a computer MORE usefule instead of LESS useful ?
My biggest reservation about open and free software is that it's not obvious how I would make a living if the whole world switched. Programming is my most marketable skill* and has kept me employed for many years. I know Stallman says that we could make money supporting free software and filling in the holes, but I've always been skeptical of the demand. Ernie Ball seems to support my concern.
* My other career option is writing. That doesn't pay the bills, and, if we totally kill rather than fix copyright laws, it'll never pay.
...we will read an interview with hotdude@kazaa about
- him sharing music on kazaa
- getting sued, losing $$$ to RIAA
- converting his musical tastes from Micheal Bolton to Machinae Supremacy
- him speaking out at the Assembly Chip Tune compo on the merits of freely downloadble music
?
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
I post on Slashdot. Why on Earth would that lead you to believe I'd ever RTFA?
Besides, 99.9% of the time it's already Slashdotted straight to hell and not worth the effort of clicking on the link.
Back in the old days, big companies didn't need to give employees distractions, rest areas, game machines, etc, etc BECAUSE THEY ONLY WORKED 7 1/2 HOURS A DAY!
Make no mistake - that foosball table in the employee lounge is no different than chains on a slave - they are both there to keep you at work.
one has to wonder why every time ms changes things because:
1. nothing has been added.
2. others are hurt by the change.
3. why is it that there is an implied threat when using m$?
He got caught because of his sheer laziness and possibly his own ignorance. Making him into a martyr for open source only legitimises the belief that linux is free software (free as in beer) and, to some point, that only software "pirates" (sic) use it.
.sig found... error. (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore: I
This story is also really demonstrating the massive power that the BSA (and the DCMA and the Patriot Act and all the other abuses currently going on) has, where no judge is involved and how this private citizen was "fined" by a private organization for what amounts to an administrative oversite without any notice. Furthermore, his government enforced this "fine" with armed guards but yet did not offer any recourse for this citizen through the courts or a chance at a review by his peers, without his being subjected to even MORE fines, penalties and fees simply for asking for review.
It's completely unacceptable and it's only going to get worse.
It could also happen to YOU next. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that it WILL happen to you (and me, and that guy reading this at work) if the rule by corporation continues to become law in the USA and other countries. Tinfoil hat stuff? Maybe...
No
Actually, in my teenage days Linux hadn't been written yet. .txt file, passwords in browserchache, ect.
And yes, IMHO ANY PC that gets trasnfered to another part of the company ect should be wiped.
a) Licenses. Yeah, you give away PCs with expensive software on it. Cant be a bad thing, can it?
b) Data Security: What traces of maybe important stuff has accumulated? Confidental stuff quickly safed in a forgetten
c) Age. Any Windows installation degrades with time.
If the PCs are used in quite a different way than before (which i suppose, because they didnt seem to think that they needed licenses for the software anymore), a clean start is highly advisable. Would safe the IT-Department (even and espacially if it is only 1 guy) a lot of work in the long run.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Does anyone know of a Linux Accounts package that will do UK payroll? I use gnuCash for personal accounts, but for company accounts I'm currently tied to Intuit's QuickBooks. I'd desperately like to give that up for both ideological and financial reasons...
Alternatively, is there anyone with enough knowlege of UK payroll processing to help start a project? I'd be happy to contribute coding, but I know nothing about payroll other than what QuickBooks tells me I need to pay...
My suggestion was along the lines of Zenworks or similar, which exist and do the job i was suggesting.
Yeah, that is, if you can get your PC to even run properly with Zenworks on it. One of the crappiest pieces of software it has been my displeasure to be unable to avoid.
Buy GHS or Dean Markley or Elixir. 5 years ago Ernie Ball strings were decent, these days they're just not up to par. I stopped using them a couple of years ago.
...worked for them a few years back. They were paying the usual wage slave entry level wages until Sterling heard that nobody could afford to live here on that wage (2 bedroom apts go for $900/mo.), so they raised wages somewere around 40% to provide a living wage. Impressed the hell out of me...I have never heard of any company anywhere doing this.
To have federal marshalls knocking on their door is ridiculous in the extreme. They would have complied in a skinny minute had they known that there was a problem. It just goes to show that the BSA and SCO have very similar revenue generating mechanisms.
See, the software must be free!
Now if he had switched out of his own initiative, then this would never have happened, and this would be more of a triumph for OSS rather than it being seen as a company being essentially forced down the road.
True, except for two points:
1) It wouldn't have attracted nearly as much interest
2) The stories would have only been able to focus on the cost of the migration and the savings of the commercial software license fees - the cost of a BSA raid and absurd fines would not have been in the picture.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
You could always replace your piano wire with guitar strings...
Wheres the carrot? Starting to look like it might be here!
Yeah, I know you may not care but I do. This was one of the primary motivators for our school to move to Open/StarOffice.
As an international school, we never know what version of MS Office a student might have, foreign or domestic - but if it's foreign then you have a whole other set of issues.
Sometimes that Korean doc will open in an American version of Word and print in the lab, other times, it locks up Word and/or the print driver.
Since we switched to Open/StarOffice, this isn't even an issue anymore. Each student gets a copy when she arrives here, and we've never had a problem with language support, printing, or lock ups (well, since 1.0.1 that is!)
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
[about a beowulf of abacuses]
Sean McMullen wrote a trilogy about a post-apocalyptic future where electricity is verbotten. To compensate, they use people trained in mathmatics as slave labor in a human powered device called a "calculor". It was ok. The first book is called Souls in the Great Machine if you're interested. Even though I know you were joking...
--J(K) DOS is like Unix in exactly the same way that a pinto is like an aircraft carrier.
My father has represented a few small companies that have been fucked by the BSA. So you have the "too small to fight back" part right, but popularity has nothing to do with it. These companies were hardly well known. Once a pissed off employee decides to try to rat you out, your screwed. The BSA has a ton of power and unless you A)are an all opensource shop or B) keep perfect records of every pc on a weekly basis you better pay up.
Yet another reason to use free software an avoid the hassle of keeping up with MS's bewildering licensing schemes. Look at the CNet article, the simple act of handing down an old machine to another employee screwed him. Like its been pointed out you rarely if ever will see a company in perfect compliance. There is always at a minimum the one shareware app on a PC past 30 days etc.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I have trouble reconciling Ball's statement:
We were out of compliance I figure by about 8 percent (out of 72 desktops).
with the amount of the settlement ($65k plus $35k in legal fees). He focused his wrath on Microsoft, which would imply that what was illegal was Office and/or Windows - to get up to $65k worth of that you'd have to be running illegal copies on most of the 72 desktops.
I also find it a little ironic that his company now has the discipline to only put things on worker's computers that they need (he makes a great point about not putting Web browsers on machines that don't need them) - if they had done that before, that would have kept them out of this mess (or they would have been violating licenses and clearly known it).
That said, I think this is a great example of how a company can be successful using alternative software.
Until the unix world can manufacture...
-a web browser better than IE.
-an office suite that is solid and universally good within all flavors of unix
-can run a real database commerically
-1 and only 1 good interface
Solaris, AIX, SGI, linux they can all do some well... but only M$ can do it ALL.
my Ernie Ball strings sounded so so sweet.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lost Sheep to Shepard, you got your ears on?
I have been using Ernie Ball strings for years and I will continue to use them with a renews exuberance now.
Do they make classical strings? If so are they good?
You need to cut down on the role-playing dude.
"We looked at Apple, but that's owned in part by Microsoft. (Editor's note: Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple in 1997.)" Wow. I'd never thought of it like that. So according to him, Apple is to MS what Lexus is to Toyota? Are those voting shares? slide
"Your proactive bipartisan synergy is indemnifying. Good work, carry on."
What allows these BSA thugs to just waltz in and raid the place ? I've never witnessed one (else I'd be in it with the other thugs to destroy BSA), but if someone is not invited, they have no legal right to cross the door, period. If I have someone at the reception desk claiming to be from BSA, I'm going to politely ask them to come back when they have a police escort, warrant, and notarized proof of intent.
Else I should change my career plans and become an independent BSA prick. I'd love to sue people on behalf of other people for things that don't exist.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
DUPE, DUPE, MOTHERF*ING DUPE!
That's really how many times Ball's company has been on slashdot!!!!
How many times do I have to read about this? Really? I want to know!
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
of companies using Linux (or other Open Source software) throughtout their company?
.
You know, so instead of just buying products friendly for the natural environment, we can support products that are friendly to the IT environment (assuming monopolies are bad for industries and have an Economics degree to back that assumption).
Just wondering . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
who to buy my strings from
support open source
as far as the BSA goes
didnt billy 'the gate' boy initiate this?
not like he never appropriated any code now did he?
hmm
nothing like pirates calling other pirates pirates
back in the day we didnt have no old school
Usally, what happens is somebody you fired gets pissed off and calls the BSA. You then lose several man-weeks of productivity bending over for the BSA auditors, whether you're guilty or not. I'm not sure what happens if you tell the BSA auditors to get the hell off your property -- do they come back with machine guns? They're a private corporation -- what right do they have to force you to do anything?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Preferably in conjuction with EDP, Ceridian, and the other big payroll companies.
Accounting systems always need to be customized. There's loads of money in that thar work, especially if you (as a company) wrote the original package.
If I could point to a world-class service firm accounting package, a treasury app, and a payroll system, I'd be able to make headway in OpenSourcing my firm.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Now there's a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.
never seem to discover Wine?
All kidding aside, I have been absolutely suprised by Wine recently. I sent my sister a computer (Linux, of course) and she said, "Great, but we absolutely have to have Paltalk." Suprise, suprise, Paltalk has Windows and Mac (or should I say, BSD?) versions, but no Linux version. Okay, so I go to this site and am pleasantly amazed to find the different apps that now run under Wine (according to this one site). And, this is the FREE version of Wine I am talking about (though, if you are new to Linux, you might want to just buy something like Crossoffice). So my sister gets a stable, virus free computer that does EVERYTHING she wants it to do, and I can support her remotely through SSH (she lives a thousand mile away from me).
Honestly, between the apps that are getting ported and the steady progress of Wine, I think it is time for you to find a new excuse why you are not using Linux. If you run out of reasonable/coherent excuses, you can always check these guys out.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
It is time OSS people started giving out awards!
Can we start to make some sensible music software? This is an aspect of Linux that is, thought not overlooked, got great possibilities. I have always wanted a music notation-recording interface for Linux that does not put you into dependancy hell! I personally would pay for such software. I am sure Ernie ball could help with marketing. The kind of interface I am talking about is a stripped down Linux distro that could be used by composers, and musicians to record to hard drive, notate conventional notation and interface the notation to say a notation integrated Abi word for editing purposes. It would need a simple desk top that did everything in an integrated way. Midi support would not be as important as reliable recording and intelligent non midi triggered notation. If the midi must be there (because the composers or musician is musically illiterate) then design it so the notation interface will work without out midi dependancy first! (Good music notation without the need to parse a latext like or midi generated script first). Easy 24/96 two channel recording through the right sound card, like an Audigy. Of course a kernel that would be custom for a set configuration. Therefore the hardware needs would be very specific. This would make the linux distro a little different by demanding the use of only supported devices. Rather harsh but necessary until other drivers became reliable. I would gladly pay for such a device. I am certain music schools and other musicians I know would too. The only objection one can hear to this is well why don't you just buy a Mac! Point well taken but being able to use a PC to do what only MACs and really expensive Windows configs could do would help Linux in the academic music field and in the music and entertainment field in general.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Talking to people is NOT relaxing. And you advocate a smoke break? What are you, a tobacco executive?
> You could always replace your piano wire with guitar strings...
Not long enough, and I don't think even bass guitar strings are thick enough for the lower registers.
However, I am definitely switching to Balls for all my garotting needs.
The REAL point of the article should get microsofties, and there are PLENTY on /., thinking.
What the article is about is not licensing, it is about POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE/RELATIONS. You can not charge a premium for your product and treat them like crap. They shold have done their audit, listed the issues and given him the choice of deleting the software or paying for the license. BSA is an enforcement arm, they have no mandate to MAKE money on the raid/audit.
With MS market saturation, they can only lose marketshare now. Customer Service is critical to maintaininh marketshare & cashflow
For us, we're not so concerned about the bundling of apps (we can do that ourselves) as we are with the availability of business apps. I've been looking for *nix-based Point-of-Sale apps since '97 and have yet to see anything that comes close to Sage's $700 Point-of-Sale Point-of-Sale system. I would love nothing more than to move the fifty mail order and cash register workstations in our stores to FreeBSD or Linux but it's not going to happen until somebody writes a decent point-of-sale app, one that's not specifically tailed for gas stations, restaurants, or small mom-and-pop shops with five items in their inventory.
Interesting to see, they were using SCO Unix to host their website, but as stated in his interview, in light of recent events they switched over too!
:)
Netcraft (link to site survey)
some of us have music to help us through the dark times
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Where do I mod the Article +5 Fuggin Hilarious?
hit him as hard as they want. However, they also have the right to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is not a willful violation but rather an honest mistake. It's their choice and the choice they made was to make an example out him.
Fair enough....it's within their rights according to the currrent laws. Just like it's within Mr. Ball's right to say f@#k you and your software.
From where I'm sitting, it looks like that decision worked out good for him.
I hope you never make a mistake on your tax return. According to your system of ethics, the IRS should then be able to come after you as if you were a willful tax evader.
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my 2 cents anyways.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
More specifically, the disgruntled employee was responsible for making sure they were compliant with their licenses. Not only did the employee turn them in, he could have actually been responsible for the complaints that were filed.
This is pretty interesting because I have often thought the BSA's approach to self-policing licenses is way better then the RIAA's proposals for technology-based piracy prevention.
But the interview makes clear one point: the BSA should call for a voluntary audit on the part of the target company. This would achieve the BSA's presumed objective: reduction of piracy and compliance with licenses. If a company cooperates, the fine should be reduced.
Without trade organizations like the BSA, we'd all be swimming in technologically-enforced copy protection and licensing enforcement (see Intuit).
He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
One of the major reasons I switched to Linux at home was because I thought Microsoft would disagree with me using one copy of Windows XP on two computers, so I did them a favor by installing Redhat!
So my question is, would Microsoft rather have you run open-source software, or pirate theirs?
they've *saved* money by going with free software ... :-)
...that Ernie Ball has been my sole supplier of guitar strings for at least five years now. Go Ernie Ball!
Disgruntled employees are just as likely to be people with attitude problems to begin with.
Quack, quack.
3 IT people, 600 clients, 350 machines, 10 servers. Tons of fun.
This post brought to you by ICBLF
The mashall is the one with the warrent and I think they (BSA) are acting as representatives and witnesses for the industry.
Quack, quack.
i think it's a clear +5 Stupid :p
with pirating you support software standarts and you are not supporting any alternative solutions
if you want to hurt them really go to the competitor or what ever =))
stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
The article I posted a link to yesterday in "news" today.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
I'd heard something like an urban legend about a company giving Bill the finger ..... so it's true then? Good for Ernie Ball.
.....
Something positive will come out of this. Someone will be inspired to help fill the gaps. These things are certain.
Maybe I should learn to play the guitar just because of this
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Proof? Look on any of their string packs. Look at their web site. Their technology is PROPRIETARY.
They will (and have) sued any company or individual that dares infringe on their IP. Just like Microsoft. Chew on THAT conundrum for a bit.
Sheesh, get a browser that blocks ads, and you won't have to worry about it.
In Mozilla all you do is select "block images from this server" and they go away.
Well, saying it's "ILLEGAL to ghost a PC for which you only have an OEM license" isn't quite accurate.
Microsoft wanted everyone to believe that was the case, a couple years ago - when they really started trying to enforce new and (supposedly) existing rules on what someone could/couldn't do with OEM software. A huge corporate backlash caused them to quickly quiet down on the issue, however - and the legality has never been court tested.
In fact, almost all of the restrictions MS claims are in effect for your OEM software (vs. a retail license) are questionably enforceable by law. Too many folks are just accepting Microsoft's claims at face value and not fighting them.
Example #1: MS says your OEM operating system shipped with your new PC is effectively "married" to that system, and is not for resale or installation on any other PC. You're supposed to include the install media with that PC if you ever sell/transfer it to another person, or else the license immediately becomes null and void. Ok, then at what point does your original PC no longer become your original PC? If I upgrade motherboard and CPU, is it still my original PC or a new one? How about after I swap hard drives for a new, faster one, upgrade RAM, or put in a new video board? Which piece of my original PC is this OEM software "married to" anyway? At some point, it's possible to upgrade everything on a clone (including the case and power supply!) so it's a whole new computer - yet I doubt even MS would try to say I need to buy Windows again because I made all those hardware changes?
Example #2: Microsoft claims your OEM software can't be legally resold, even if you never opened the shrink-wrap on the media, and reformatted your PC's hard disk as soon as you powered it up - and installed a different OS (like Linux?). This flies directly in the face of "right of first sale", as determined MANY years ago by the U.S. Supreme Court. Whether MS likes it or not, you *paid for* that operating system when you purchased your computer. Many companies sell the same exact computer system for varying prices depending on your OS choice, proving this to be the case. If you paid for it and never used it, you quite simply *do* have the legal right to resell it to someone else.
ROFL. As a guitarist and Linux hack, I am tickled by this.
--Slashdot: News for Turds. Stuff that Splatters.
I've been a guitar player for more than 7 years, while I've never used their strings, I'm certainly going to consider them next time I need new strings. I've sent them an email letting them I had read the article and will be looking at their products. Hopefully more companies will do this and pass the savings on to their customers.
My subtext is just a figment of your imagination.
Hypocrites are people who say "We want the desktop, we demand our government use Free Software, world domination baby!" and then turn right around and yell "quit whining about what you get for free" or "Free Software doesn't entitle you to a usable interface".
I actually appreciate your post and I'm glad you made it. It reminds me why I'm writing a public license that enforces usability and bans kernel hackers (the leaders of the linux technical community) from using the software. I might very well post it on my bedroom wall whenever I need inspiration.
Owing is a two-way street. It's about time we started paving the other side.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
or is the most important thing to come out of this story the fact that there is someone out there named Sterling Ball?
I bought an educational copy of Flash 5 on Ebay, and the seller said it can be used for commercial purposes, since it was a private re-sale. However, the EULA states that the software cannot be sold (resold), besides the fact that it can only be used for educational purposes only. Am I off the hook, or am I still bound by the EULA even though I am not the original purchaser? And can I turn around and re-sell it or not?! JESUS... :(
The last thing I want is a friggin' armed marshal at my door
Damn all your sigs.
Chalupa
Why doesn't somebody publish a book of proprietary to open-source case studies? I mean a detailed how-to book. Collect a bunch of articles with real-life case studies of these solutions. Include some technical details and a business-speak analysis at the end.
It sure beats another PHPMYSQLLINUXIN5MINUTES book. Please don't write another intro to PHP/MySQL and web publishing book. We really don't need it.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
I own two Ernie Ball/Music Man guitars - very cool to see this! Ryan
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
and I thought it would be waaay too arrogant to post an instant reply...if youre still interested heres the working link.
;-)
But keep in mind, right now we are rehearsing. If you wanna know when we have something you might want to hear just give me an e-mail acoount I can send them too, one fine day.
But theres no real content there anyways. we are rehearsing right now.
If you still want to check out some road-pics you can click on the corrected link here:
BlissX
Government and corporations shouldn't use free software in order to make free software developers happy, they should demand that any critical software they buy is available under a free software license, in order to avoid the situation where they are at the mercy of a single provider. It is in their own interest, and tax payers and investors should demand that.
And you will find that software developers are quite willing to release their software and a free license, as long as they get paid for their work.
It isn't the free software developers who have anything at stake, we can just as well work on closed source if the clients are stupid enough to be satisfied with that. It is the users who are going to (continue to) get screwed if they don't start demaning more reasonable license conditions on the software they use.
My gripe for the week is MS control. Again,s here you have another situation where MS threatens you with damage to your business unless you "comply" with potential BSA audits, and is using those poorly-veiled threats to get you to give up rights for "protection".
Weather it's the bend-over ELA's [not benificial for my company] or buying lots of "new & improved" [with horrible EULA changes] versions of it's OS with expensive servers. Release a free and clear tool for me to be "piracy free" that will tell me what's installed and what needs licenses--so I can document them, and I'll be happilly compliant. Like Ernie Ball though...Don't stand there and blackmail me by making "threats" and impossiblly complicated usage agreements. That's the racket their in, and they know it!
Or buying safer cars? Or boycotting companies that pollute, lie, or steal?
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Consumers can be a powerful and influential force on the market, and, if we choose, we can make companies become more responsible.
Btw, Open Source is EXTREMELY environmentally friendly. Programmers usually reside in developed countries, where each invidual has the heaviest impact on the environment. Open Source allows reuse of code, which means less programmers waste less time rewriting the same code. This results in more useful code being contributed per programmer and an increase of the ratio of useful code per a given unit of pollution.
Maybe if you spent less time being so cynical, you would realize your ability to contribute towards a better society. .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!