>> Then tell the VMS person about how we're getting different languages to work together. They will look at you in amazement, wondering why there isn't a standard calling convention that all the languages use.
>OK, I'm really skeptical about this. Maybe this works for what I'd guess are 'traditional' VMS languages (C, FORTRAN, and maybe COBOL). And linking C/C++ and Fortran isn't that unusual. But could I link, say, C++ and Ada95 together?
Yes. See, DEC decided not to support Ada95 natively so they had ACT port GNAT (based on GCC) to VMS. So VMS should support Ada95 w/ C++ as well as/ as poorly as Unix does.
I still don't understand what he's saying about getting different languages to work together though. Everything compiled in Unix uses the C calling conventions, and even early Unix C, Pascal and Fortran compilers let you intermix code, IIRC.
At least on Debian, half of/usr/doc is gzipped anyway, so what's new?
Really, is going to UTF-8 for all you Klingon/Tengwar/Japenese needs going to make that big of a difference in size? The only texts I have that come close to the size of my mp3 collection or my jpg/png/xcf collection is the GCC source code (for a wide variety of versions). That size isn't going to change by going to UTF-8 unless they stop using English (not likely.)
Both those alphabets have proposals for Unicode, and will be included sooner or later. If you're too impatient, the ConScript Registry (http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/csur/ ) has standards for encoding those languages in the Private Use Block.
Then why use 16 bit integers? Use 21 bit integers, like Unicode actually does, and we can include everything, include Tengwar, Cirth and Klingon, which are actual proposals for Unicode being worked on.
LyX, not Klyx. Klyx was a one time hacked port to KDE that wasn't kept up to date, and shouldn't still be out there to sully LyX's name.
ASCII was never designed for WP and DTP. It does work for plain text, and the basis for higher level protocals, though. Again, Unicode (not wide ASCII) was designed to be a plain text channel, not a WP channel.
Gzip and zip are two commonly used compression formats, the first of which the KWord people are using in their documents. Either will win you more than your hacked quasi-compression, and neither lose readability (zless, for instance.)
Re:Computers aren't better at chess
on
Solving Chess?
·
· Score: 1
It kind of pisses me off when people say that humans are better than computers at chess. Humans aren't better, they are different.
Until humans can play and actually consider all their moves instead of making wild guessess, I can't be truly impressed with a human's ability.
It's not Microsoft. They can't force everyone to learn Esperanto.
AT&T was under government restraint. They can't force everyone to use Unix. So they didn't. People chose to use Unix, like people have been chosing to use Esperanto, for almost a century. (Not that it's been a great sucess, but it's a dream.)
As for your nephew, children learn languages much better then adults, and multi-year immersion is a much better strategy than any you could put an adult through.
The point of Esperanto is to provide a common tongue for everyone, that's simple enough for everyone to learn and use. It can't be perfect, anymore than one could have the perfect computer language or OS.
I'm trying, but the symantics of the GET command are confusing me. Where's the manual for using telnet as a we browser? (Seriously, if some one could point me to the RFC, I'd be appreciative.)
He considers it a joke that people want to learn one language to communicate with almost everyone, instead of 10 or 12?
Good luck on teaching multiple languages at once. My guts say it's impossible; my high school German is clashing with the Esperanto I'm trying to learn, and high school German's 4 years behind me.
What, that it's not perfect? The nits are mostly the nits of a perfectionist linguist, and not that of someone learning the language. Oh wow, the sound structure isn't perfectly regular. No language is, and few speakers will notice.
The only really valid complaint is the one about sexism inherent in the language (-in- part for female, but none for male.)
Re:make your own linux distro in your own language
on
Making Your Own Linux
·
· Score: 1
>Now this is something I have wanted to do for a >long time, but did not know where to start. Now >if there only was some way to easily add national >language support for many languages (Arabic, >Hebrew, Chinese etc.). [snip] >I think this would help spread linux usage >worldwide because people can have an operating >system in their native language.
There is no magic fairy dust. Gnome and KDE are both working on the Unicode and BIDI support needed for those langugages. Many Japenese are already using Linux - cf. www.debian.or.jp .
Many European languages - English, French, Spanish, German, Icelandic - are handled fine right now - the only thing missing is translations. There is really no magic fairy dust here - no quick hack. It needs lots and lots of translators work to translate the messages.
Or you could package custom packages for Debian/ Red Hat/Mastadon - Debian makes making a kernel package a standard part of compiling a new kernel, so that's no problem. With Debian or Red Hat, it should be trivial to not install what you don't want (I know it is in Debian.) And you can rely on the security patches from upstream matching up with your stuff.
Want to upgrade all the kernels in a Debian based situation? Replace kernel-2.2.2 with kernel-2.2.8 in your apt-cache, and run apt-get install kernel-2.2.8 on each computer. Are you going to make it easier than that with your own distro, without a lot of pain?
Maybe they should work on getting to compile on more systems. But (a) You have the code, you can port it. (b) Very few people say "let's make the code run only on my system." Most people try to make it portable to a wide range of systems. Many people say "hey, look, C89 or Posix guarentees this. I can depend on it, then." or "I can depend on sed having a resonable buffer or being 8-bit clean.", which your system can't handle. Why waste hours of time working around brain-damaged systems if you don't know if anyone is going to use it? (c) Linux developers aren't trying for market lock-in. You have the code, you can port, they'll probably help you, and they'll probably accept a reasonable set of patches.
I love the way the "unified" Linux community turns on its own without even the justification of tough times. Come on, guys. Caldera's on *our* side; you can tell, 'cuz they aren't Microsoft.
Nonsense! If Caldera had their way, they would turn Linux into another Windows. Remember what's bad about Windows - not that it has bugs, but that no one can or will fix them, that it uses market lockin to avoid competition, and that there is little choice. If Windows had the market share of BeOS, no one would care about them. If Caldera had the marketshare of Windows, they would act just like Microsoft, at least that's how I read this. And Caldera's worse, because every person who uses Caldera is a person who's not using Mandrake or another free system. Microsoft isn't in as direct compention.
No, the FSF requires copyright assignments signed by your employer if you contribute any code. Is it really a win for the FSF if you contribute code to the GNU Hurd (say, Linux binary emulation) and Microsoft sues the FSF and wins big time?
It couldn't be anomyous, because it was up with the "hacker" terminology first. It would be obvious to some that it had changed, and confusing to others when they read the comments complaining about the "hacker" terminology. Why not post it there - it's already public, this just makes it clear.
Have you ever talked to a Stoutie? Stout is the Ash-Haightbury of OSU, and they are proud of it. Due to the renovation of Stout, they get first pick of rooms pretty much anywhere on campus next semester, and they are pissed about being forced to move out of Stout.
Anyway, what do you expect the college to do about it? Force everyone to move out of Stout right now so they can do the renovations? Out of every old dorm on campus? Where do you expect them to come up with the money and living space for displaced students?
That's why C was invented in the first place? That's why _every_ standard language was invented in the first place. Frankly, C is an awful example, considering that many places still don't have a compiler that can compile the standard that's over 10 years old. The only other language I know of that still caters to pre current-standard stuff is Fortran. Ada, Eiffel, Perl, most other languages just don't have the porting problems that C does.
Don't worry about the FBI, NSA or any other American group.
(1) I believe that the resposibility is on the group, not you, to stop you from downloading it.
(2) To know you did it, the FBI/NSA/whoever would have to be monitoring internation communication. To come out and admit to it in the internation community (which is what they'd have to do) would garner more shit then it's worth.
(3) They really don't have the time or concern to deal with you, anymore than you'll get big trouble for an illegal copy of Windows.
If his chances of breaking something are much higher than making a correct fix, then the developers are having the same trouble, and I don't want to run it. Normally, stuff like that is modularized, so that it can be handled by mere mortals.
Slashdot Mirror
>> Then tell the VMS person about how we're getting different languages to work together. They will look at you in amazement, wondering why there isn't a standard calling convention that all the languages use.
>OK, I'm really skeptical about this. Maybe this works for what I'd guess are 'traditional' VMS languages (C, FORTRAN, and maybe COBOL). And linking C/C++ and Fortran isn't that unusual. But could I link, say, C++ and Ada95 together?
Yes. See, DEC decided not to support Ada95 natively so they had ACT port GNAT (based on GCC) to VMS. So VMS should support Ada95 w/ C++ as well as/ as poorly as Unix does.
I still don't understand what he's saying about getting different languages to work together though. Everything compiled in Unix uses the C calling conventions, and even early Unix C, Pascal and Fortran compilers let you intermix code, IIRC.
At least on Debian, half of /usr/doc is gzipped anyway, so what's new?
Really, is going to UTF-8 for all you Klingon/Tengwar/Japenese needs going to make that big of a difference in size? The only texts I have that come close to the size of my mp3 collection or my jpg/png/xcf collection is the GCC source code (for a wide variety of versions). That size isn't going to change by going to UTF-8 unless they stop using English (not likely.)
Both those alphabets have proposals for Unicode, and will be included sooner or later. If you're too impatient, the ConScript Registry (http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/csur/ ) has standards for encoding those languages in the Private Use Block.
Then why use 16 bit integers? Use 21 bit integers, like Unicode actually does, and we can include everything, include Tengwar, Cirth and Klingon, which are actual proposals for Unicode being worked on.
LyX, not Klyx. Klyx was a one time hacked port to KDE that wasn't kept up to date, and shouldn't still be out there to sully LyX's name.
ASCII was never designed for WP and DTP. It does work for plain text, and the basis for higher level protocals, though. Again, Unicode (not wide ASCII) was designed to be a plain text channel, not a WP channel.
Gzip and zip are two commonly used compression formats, the first of which the KWord people are using in their documents. Either will win you more than your hacked quasi-compression, and neither lose readability (zless, for instance.)
It kind of pisses me off when people say that humans are better than computers at chess. Humans aren't better, they are different.
Until humans can play and actually consider all their moves instead of making wild guessess, I can't be truly impressed with a human's ability.
It's not Microsoft. They can't force everyone to learn Esperanto.
AT&T was under government restraint. They can't force everyone to use Unix. So they didn't. People chose to use Unix, like people have been chosing to use Esperanto, for almost a century. (Not that it's been a great sucess, but it's a dream.)
As for your nephew, children learn languages much better then adults, and multi-year immersion is a much better strategy than any you could put an adult through.
The point of Esperanto is to provide a common tongue for everyone, that's simple enough for everyone to learn and use. It can't be perfect, anymore than one could have the perfect computer language or OS.
I'm trying, but the symantics of the GET command are confusing me. Where's the manual for using telnet as a we browser? (Seriously, if some one could point me to the RFC, I'd be appreciative.)
He considers it a joke that people want to learn one language to communicate with almost everyone, instead of 10 or 12?
Good luck on teaching multiple languages at once. My guts say it's impossible; my high school German is clashing with the Esperanto I'm trying to learn, and high school German's 4 years behind me.
What, that it's not perfect? The nits are mostly the nits of a perfectionist linguist, and not that of someone learning the language. Oh wow, the sound structure isn't perfectly regular. No language is, and few speakers will notice.
The only really valid complaint is the one about sexism inherent in the language (-in- part for female, but none for male.)
>Now this is something I have wanted to do for a
>long time, but did not know where to start. Now
>if there only was some way to easily add national
>language support for many languages (Arabic,
>Hebrew, Chinese etc.).
[snip]
>I think this would help spread linux usage
>worldwide because people can have an operating
>system in their native language.
There is no magic fairy dust. Gnome and KDE are both working on the Unicode and BIDI support needed for those langugages. Many Japenese are already using Linux - cf. www.debian.or.jp .
Many European languages - English, French, Spanish, German, Icelandic - are handled fine right now - the only thing missing is translations. There is really no magic fairy dust here - no quick hack. It needs lots and lots of translators work to translate the messages.
Or you could package custom packages for Debian/
Red Hat/Mastadon - Debian makes making a kernel package a standard part of compiling a new kernel, so that's no problem. With Debian or Red Hat, it should be trivial to not install what you don't want (I know it is in Debian.) And you can rely on the security patches from upstream matching up with your stuff.
Want to upgrade all the kernels in a Debian based
situation? Replace kernel-2.2.2 with kernel-2.2.8 in your apt-cache, and run apt-get install kernel-2.2.8 on each computer. Are you going to make it easier than that with your own distro, without a lot of pain?
Maybe they should work on getting to compile
on more systems. But
(a) You have the code, you can port it.
(b) Very few people say "let's make the code run
only on my system." Most people try to make it portable to a wide range of systems. Many people say "hey, look, C89 or Posix guarentees this. I can depend on it, then." or "I can depend on sed having a resonable buffer or being 8-bit clean.", which your system can't handle. Why waste hours of time working around brain-damaged systems if you don't know if anyone is going to use it?
(c) Linux developers aren't trying for market lock-in. You have the code, you can port, they'll probably help you, and they'll probably accept a reasonable set of patches.
Nonsense! If Caldera had their way, they would turn Linux into another Windows. Remember what's bad about Windows - not that it has bugs, but that no one can or will fix them, that it uses market lockin to avoid competition, and that there is little choice. If Windows had the market share of BeOS, no one would care about them. If Caldera had the marketshare of Windows, they would act just like Microsoft, at least that's how I read this. And Caldera's worse, because every person who uses Caldera is a person who's not using Mandrake or another free system. Microsoft isn't in as direct compention.
No, the FSF requires copyright assignments signed
by your employer if you contribute any code. Is it
really a win for the FSF if you contribute code
to the GNU Hurd (say, Linux binary emulation) and
Microsoft sues the FSF and wins big time?
It couldn't be anomyous, because it was up
with the "hacker" terminology first. It would
be obvious to some that it had changed, and
confusing to others when they read the comments
complaining about the "hacker" terminology. Why
not post it there - it's already public, this
just makes it clear.
What does sku mean?
Actually, the man page that comes up on Debian
is about the same - it has those examples. I'm not quite sure why she used that as an example . . .
Have you ever talked to a Stoutie? Stout is the Ash-Haightbury of OSU, and they are proud of it. Due to the renovation of Stout, they get first pick of rooms pretty much anywhere on campus next semester, and they are pissed about being forced to move out of Stout.
Anyway, what do you expect the college to do about it? Force everyone to move out of Stout right now so they can do the renovations? Out of every old dorm on campus? Where do you expect them to come up with the money and living space for displaced students?
That's why C was invented in the first place? That's why _every_ standard language was invented in the first place. Frankly, C is an awful example, considering that many places still don't
have a compiler that can compile the standard that's over 10 years old. The only other language
I know of that still caters to pre current-standard stuff is Fortran. Ada, Eiffel, Perl, most other languages just don't have the porting problems that C does.
What do you think Pascal, Ada, and Java call
when they want memory? Malloc. It's what anything
calls when it wants memory, ultimately.
Don't worry about the FBI, NSA or any other American group.
(1) I believe that the resposibility is on the group, not you, to stop you from downloading it.
(2) To know you did it, the FBI/NSA/whoever would have to be monitoring internation communication. To come out and admit to it in the internation community (which is what they'd have to do) would garner more shit then it's worth.
(3) They really don't have the time or concern to deal with you, anymore than you'll get big trouble for an illegal copy of Windows.
If his chances of breaking something are much higher than making a correct fix, then the developers are having the same trouble, and I don't want to run it. Normally, stuff like that is modularized, so that it can be handled by mere mortals.