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Making Your Own Linux
jjr writes: "Have you ever wanted to make your own Linux distro? Now at www.linuxfromscratch.org
you can teach yourself how Linux works and even make your own Linux distro from the info they have at this site." This looks like a cool resource especially if your school or place of employ (or coven, biker gang, hunter-gatherer tribe, etc.) wants to create a site- or affinity-specific distribution.
There's been a Linux from Scratch HOWTO for a while now, very interesting reading.
Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".
Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".
from the sterilize-all-vessels-thoroughly dept.
Am I missing something?
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Just curious, but is there anything a corporation would gain from building their own distro from scratch? I can't think of anything they would gain from that over adding rpms to redhat or more debian packages to the debian distro.
Am I missing something?
/ZL
But I'd just like 2 know how many ppl out there would actually have the time to develop there own version of linux.
Enditallnow
This is a good idea. for someone with a spare box and alot of time on their hands. I imagine you would learn an aweful lot about what each integral part of linux does, and why.
There a bunch of little distros you can build on. Some are Vector Linux, Peanut Linux and DOS Linux. These are much easier to newbies to understand than bloated distros like Red Hat.
I know that I can find about a hundred uses for this at my high school alone! Bloated RedHat just doesn't cut it when all your computers are donated and have 300MB harddrives. That's what Linux should be used for anyway - to take full advantage of everything that doesn't have the 256MB RAM required to run Win2k.
I have a Pentium 200 MMX with 64 megs of EDO ram. I have a 540 meg ide hard drive. I want to set this up as a good linux box. I tried mandrake, but the install was like 340 megs. what is the most recommended install? I want to run a dedicated counter-strike server as well, and that takes like 150 megs right there. I need as much space as i can keep.. any ideas?
I mean as distros there are there... which would be most recommended? I don't have enough time to build my own system outright..
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/mini/Sa ving-Space.html
Bitchslapped. Neat.
Now this is something I have wanted to do for a long time, but did not know where to start. Now if there only was some way to easily add national language support for many languages (Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese etc.).
I know slangsoft (http://www.slangsoft.com) has a library you can link with your java applications to accomplish this. But there are a few drawbacks to this toolkit.
1
this toolkit is a commercial product and therefore hard or impossible to integrate with a linux distribution whithout violating the GPL (correct me if I am wrong).
2
It only works with java.
3
It only works for webapplications
Wouldn't it be neat if there was some sort of an open source alternative? I think this would help spread linux usage worldwide because people can have an operating system in their native language. Maybe Slangsoft can be persuaded to open source their product.
There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't
Why bother making your own unless ur are some paranoid thats insecure about a computer OS... if ur one of the norm, just go an buy/download a normal distro.... some of ther versions are SuSe @ www.suse.com RedHat @ www.redhat.com Stormix @ www.stormix.com Mandrake @ www. mandrake.com All with there own free download...
This is pretty useful for web hosting companies and the like, as they get to customize every aspect of it and make it as secure and reliable as possible.
I'm currently discussing this with my boss, but there's one thing that's missing from that howto: how to burn the new distro onto CD and how to install it on other computers. That is the thing which is preventing us from implementing this reliably (there is always the possibility of using a boot disk and copying it using NFS, but that isn't for the faint of heart.)
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
What is the main reason you'd like to assemble your own Linux distro?
- It's a good learning experience for people who want to know exactly how the different parts fit together.
- It allows total control over what you put into your system.
- The standard Linux distributions are too bloated for my tastes.
- I just like re-inventing the wheel, especially square ones.
- 'cos RedHat sucks.
- 'cos CmdrTaco rules.
- Yuck. I prefer to stick with an existing distro.
- What, you mean anybody from highschool can actually assemble their own Linux system?!! God forbid! This is a security hazard! We better report this to the FBI!
.Poll Mastah
Moderators: Please note, the below is my signature. Do not moderate this post based upon my signature. That is counter to the moderator guidelines.
I heard Rob was going to release SlashLinux after reading this site, but then somebody asked him about it so he delayed it's release 24 hours.
I heard Rob was going to release SlashLinux after reading this site, but then somebody asked him about it so he delayed its release 24 hours.
This absolutely positively must mean that the slashdot crew is planning on creating their own distro, complete with Slash already integrated.
;0)
There simply is no excuse for this now. With such tools provided, they'd be hipocrites not to make one. This IS an open source shop right???
P.S.-Don't kill me Rob, was just making fun of all the comments just before Slash got released.
It seems to be suffering from a little bit of the /. effect, so I put up a mirror of the actual document at http://www.pdavis.cx/HOWTO/LFS-BOOK/in dex.html. This not the whole site, just the document (the development version).
On their page, they talk about this great 'optimized' version of RHL. Maybe I was a Windows user for too long, but I get wary when I hear things like that ...
I still think it'd be really cool if the government were to create and use their own distro. That way, they can have a lot of control over the product, they can also have a very secure product. If they don't believe it, the full source code can always be reviewed, by anyone. That way, the only way they can achieve security and keeping information classified would be to use tools that were really secure, not merely obscure. I think the government should really consider it.
I finally can fulfill my dream linux distro :)
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
Building your own distro so you can control the initial setup of, eg. an office, is nowhere near as useful as having proper configuration management tools.
One of the things Debian are working towards (with debconf and apt) is a system where you can roll out a bunch of workstations with the same configuration automatically (just point them at your "config server"); or you can save your configuration to use as a backup, or to help someone else get started.
They're not there yet. But "zero administration" will be the killer app that gets linux onto office desktops...
This looks like a cool resource especially if your school or place of employ (or coven, biker gang, hunter-gatherer tribe, etc.) wants to create a site- or affinity-specific distribution.
I'm employed, I'm wiccan and I'm a biker. Looks like I'm going to be very busy creating distros!
HH
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings.
"...they get to customize every aspect of it and make it as secure and reliable as possible."
No! Bad company! Attempting to design and maintain your own distro is guaranteed to end in insecurity. A much better idea would be to participate in an existing "high-security" distro.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
I've been running a custom system ala LFS for a while now. And if you have a good understanding of how linux works, it doesn't take long. I spend more time compiling Glibc and Gcc then anything else. I was able to do everything from the Book (it's no longer a HOWTO, btw) in under 14 hours... I found it to be a wonderfull way of learning how everything fits together. -=HIghoS=- -- HIghoS - tie@linux.ca - tie@mountlinux.com http://www.mountlinux.com Join Olympus, Central Remote Administration
If your going to do this (and believe me, it's no trivial task), don't forget to use Encap, the packaging system that Nomad Linux uses. Basically, it each application goes in its own directory in /usr/local/encap/ and Encap makes symbolic links to directories on the path. Thus, removing a package is a snap. It takes longer, because you have to set up configure to do it each time you compile something, and sometimes you have to do it manually, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier when you want to upgrade or remove a package. Even if you're not going to "roll your own distribution," it makes life easier.
Linux: Long live the source code.
What would be really cool would be to have a "Linux demo" that is bootable from cd-rom then mounts a ram disk as the / directory (for machine spefic config files (like for /etc/ppp/ppp.options) and then have the option to "flush" any files that have changed to either a zip drive or a floppy disk (the latter being more restirctive).
:)
The idea behind this, would be to allow users to be able to "test" Linux without having a newbie tearing up his/her hard drive cause of it. Hell, now that I think about it, just disable all IDE/SCSI/FS support in the kernel or remove commands like fdisk from the cd-rom all together. So they couldn't trash their hard drive without first getting a "real" distro, by that time though they should have be intrested enough to take the time to do it Right.
You could actucally make a generic kernel that had module support for everything you could possiable think of. It would work like this, it would boot from CD-ROM, look for a floppy or zip drive, if there was config files on either of these media's it would use those when booting, else it would boot into the `default` setup.
This might be a really good idea for maybe a lugi, I can see it now `Luci Linux Demo Disk`
Pop the CD-ROM in (if the bios supports bootable cd-rom) or the boot floppy, it loads, someone from the lugi configs X, ppp and a couple other things for them really quick and off they go.
But then again this might have an ill effect, they might get a "false" or distrorted view of what exactly Linux is. And the second negative effect might be the user clicks on the `Netscape` icon and everything goes to hell...
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Anyone seen www.demolinux.org? They have a CD-ROM based linux distro that boots off a CDROM, autodetects the hardware, and runs off a RAMDISK partition.
With an 80min CDR blank (which fits nicely into my wallet, and the ability to build a custom linux distro, imagine the possibility: Being able to walk into any computer lab, or borrow a machine, insert this little disc, and bam! have ssh, an xterm, etc...
-=- SiKnight
Slighty offtopic, but does anyone know of an existing distro with good support for setting up servers for diskless workstations?
You should read the comment on the post and realize this isn't for everyone.
:^P The site is, I'm sure (although I haven't checked; seems to be down at the moment) for folks who want to install a kernel & utils from scratch. It's just for folks who want to or need to, for some reason. Most folks don't want or need to do this, but for those who have a want/need to do so, I'm sure that such a site would be a handy resource. :^)
And also, Linux is a kernel. I doubt that the site has any information on making a Linux clone.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Why bother developing for Linux systems, or Linux itself? I mean, Microsoft and Apple make operating systems...
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Seems to me that VMware is perfect for this. This was actually the whole reason I bought a license, well that and to run a few windows apps :). I like the idea of being able to put together a new distro in a nice safe sandbox. Plus I can keep an mp3 player open while I work.
treke
According to US law, a defector can only stay if said defector FLIES to the country. If you come by boat, you're out. The US "justice" system is breaking the law by letting that kid stay. The kid's getting a pretty good deal so far...I mean, if the letter of the law were being followed here, he'd have been back in Cuba in less than 48 hours.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Stow sounds a lot like Encap...Encap predates Stow by a year.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
I think I might builg and RPM like slackware with this. I find slack is the only thing I use, but a working rpm database would make it easier to fix slackware when it starts to get broken. right now I can't get Gnome to compile or run binaries because of library issues
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
Current distros were built more-or-less from scratch. While the package management and configuration management tools on a number of systems are impressive, I don't think they're anywhere close to what they could be.
A lot of folks grouse about how many distros there are right now. Quite frankly, though, I think that when Apple put together their own BSD system, they chose their name wisely: Darwin is indeed a wise name for a free-software project. Many steps have been taken in the evolution of free software, and some have fallen by the wayside due to disuse/poor design/etc. But the important thing to remember is that all the config managers and package managers out there got started by someone saying "this sucks; let's do something different."
The one thing I'd like to see change is the necessity for using a package manager to manage packages, and the risk of breaking config management tools simply by configing by hand once in a while (I've had problems with both on Red Hat/Mandrake/SuSE systems.) From what I've heard, it's kind of a necessity for Debian sytems to use the package manager to not break dependencies. Mandrake's terrible because all its packages have "MDK" in the name of the package; some Red Hat packages don't install at all.
What I'd like to see is something a bit like "alien" that can deal with rpms/potatoes/tgz/whatever, use traditional approaches to finding dependencies (if all else fails, find the required libs) and then use an "Encap"-like method of installing packages (i.e. use a seperate dir for every package, when convenient.)
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Earlier this year I foudn the original LFS howto and I created a sorta-mini-distro that I called Laonux. The 40 meg tar.gz file expanded to a 200 meg filesystem. It worked great. Last thursday I replaced my RedHat system with this one, and added on all the bells and whistles. Hehe, it's quite an enjoyable experience. You should all do it. You know you want to. Just be careful around glibc, it bites.
I meant 80 MM , not 80 mm. In other words, CD single size. I have a few of these CDRs around. And those will fit in a wallet. They are only a bit bigger than a credit card dimensional wise, holds almost 200 Mbs. Which is enough for a small slackware install with X. SiKnight
But it's from the same person and had you read the moderator guidelines you would know that you aren't suppost to moderate double posts as redundant because they are accidental.
Your post doesn't make any sense. Put away the crackpipe before you go on the internet please!
It would be pretty cool if there was a readily available distrib that fitted onto a 1.44" stiffy. And that you could extend easily.
no sig
here's one for you...
return 0;
Good enough? :)
treke
LFS isn't about making a distro... it's about building a linux system from the source up. ;)
And by the time you have compiled the basic system, you could compile and install Enlightenment or Gnome or Emacs or whatever by yourself
Everything that's installed right now is what the Author thou was best in his opinion... do whatever you like it did...
On a seperate note, if you check the mailing list you will see that the Book is in heavy development right now.
There's been a lot of discussion about where the Book should go, like should the Book explain how to setup this or what when there's pleny of HOWTO's that go into great detail about how to do something specific at http://www.linuxdoc.org
Anyways, hope i could clear up a few thinks...
I ask this because, from my experience with compiler construction, I believe that switching this around is somewhat more difficult than simply translating the reserved word list. Anyone have any experience with this?
Honesty. Loyalty. Kindness. Laughter. Generosity. Magic!
Now Linux is even better!!
I am quite aware of the --force command-line option, as well as --nodeps.
.tgz of the darn thing. The RPM database is supposed to help make system maintenance a non-issue; instead, because the RPM concept is so flawed, it's more hassle at times than an actual help.
The fact is, different distros use different libs, different dir structures, etc. If you need to use --force --nodeps to install an RPM, then the package maintainer might as well have used a Slack package; in other words, just make a
Also, before you Debian fascists speak up, I'd just like to say that I'd like to have a setup that I *didn't* have to use a package manager, but could if I wanted to. Okay, that sounds like a newbie thought, but bear with me. Why not set up a packaging system that could, if deps fail, check the deps on its own? Open ld.so.conf and check those dirs, etc. It wouldn't be as impossible as it sounds, and would make installing from source almost a non-issue.
Well, that's my $0.02 for now.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
My reasons were:
I was trying to make something that can be user friendly enough to install from a SVGA GUI and a push of mouse click and the distro will install itself into the harddisk. All of this was done within one boot disk. SCSI detection, mouse detection, stripped SVGA library, kernel, mkfs, untar functions linked to my installer program.
I also designed my system configuration program using html based programs. It was nicely done. Suddenly something hits me, I should unify the installing procedure and configuration using the same appearance to the user. Otherwise, it would end up like some product from Redmond.
By the time, I rewrote half of the boot disk, 30% of the install packages were outdated. I designed this distro to use binary tar files, like Slackware. However, I don't have enough time to keep track of each package and ensure the quality of the packages. I tried to catch up with the software packages and reviewed them. I finally realized that I will never have enough time to put all the pieces together, and I gave up on making this distro publicallyavailable.
Right now, I am on my own smallest distro, and I really love this system. It's slim, fast, and most easy to use for me personally. I need to edit the text configuration files from time to time, but I built the whole thing from ground up. Therefore, I know exactly where things were. I can't say others would like my distro. For personal experience, it was well worth.
Now, I can get any kind of linux machine going without having to worry about distro dependent configuration tool. Some of the stuff you can get it done in 3 minutes with text file, as oppose to run the linuxconf and hope for the best. I perfer to stick with text files. Although, I didn't make any money, I still recommend people to try it out.
IF I EVER MEET YOU I WILL FIX YOUR LAWNMOWER FOR FREE
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Bryce
If upgradeability concerns you (and it shouldn't, there are several good methods of managing this, not the least of which being "make uninstall" with most decent newer programs) then you can always install a package manager, and follow a distribution's conventions.
Nothing prevents you from using RPM, for instance, on your homemade non-RedHat system.
Ever hear of something called sensationalism? Exagerating to make your point. Taking everything for face value just makes you look stupid. Read and then digest next time.
I am into the copy and paste.
In case anyone wants to print the thing off, here is a postscript version of the file.
Get the PS version
It's a hacked job, so the formatting may be screwy in places -- it looks fine to me. But it beats clicking "next" after 2 lines of text is displayed.
LDPL -- Yes, its modified; it's one big doc now. All rights stay with the author, this is just another medium.
Cool. Now maybe I can run something other than a Redhat knock-off on my PPC machines. (yeah, yeah, I know... SuSE... but I don't want rpm) I have 3 oldish Macs on my network running Linux and have been dreaming about making a Slackware-like distro for them, but have been just too lazy to figure out how to do it. Anyone want to help?
Ill drop my rant here as a solaris internals person. If you need a document telling you how to do this dont even try. If you think you have enough spare time to build your own resonable distro your either going to busy for a long time or just flat out wrong. Every once in a while I see something like this and it scares me. Enableing users who know a little or even alot to do something beyond the normal scope of there abilities. Im not saying that there arent people around here can do it but I am saying there arent alot.
After looking at it, it definitly seems jaded. Required packages list has lots of optionals. bash for example, while it seems to be the standard linux shell it is not the most common unix shell and there are lots of other shells out there. One could install ksh or csh or tcsh instead. Maybe ash or zsh if you want to be really wierd. Vim? Taking into account there are a about 20 vi clones out there why is vi required? I like vi personally but ed is sufficiant to build the system. Bzip? Perl? These arent required, ive been a unix admin for 14 years now and Ive never used bzip other then a brief test to determine that it did give better compression but was to far deviated from the norm for standard deployment. This is definitly an opinionated document. Some decent info but watch for those "Touting the party line" things like bash as required.
Sorry, I didn't think the mirror would get as much traffic as it did either. You killed my proxy!!!! You bastards!! Well, at least the original site should be back up by now.
Flames welcomed, but honestly...
Since all of the greatest linux corps are making their own "exclusive/specialized/customized/best ever" distros, why would I want to put any work into my own linux system. How soon will it be until we'll have an antitrust trial within the Linux industry?
Honestly though, people have always complained about buggy Microshit software. But what about the buggy Red Hat distro software. Let's "really" be smart and open-minded.
B
Moderators should be predictable. We don't want them randomly assigning points here,there and everywhere.
You think that keeping a child away from his father is constitutional? What right does the American government have to keep that child from the only parent he has left?! The only reason I can see is if the parent was abusive or something but that has not been shown, in fact Juan Gonzalez seems like a perfectly good father.
Yes I understand the US gov't still has an embargo on Cuba from the days of the Red scare... this really seems to be more of a political issue and the childs wishes don't seem to matter. From what I've seen of the newscasts the boy hasn't seen his father in 5 months... the only parent he has left... and from the pictures taken right after the "capture" he seems very happy to be reunited with him.
The reason for the military style raid was fear that doing it any other way might be more harmful to either the family, the public, or others involved. (ie there was a fear of guns within the crowd and most likely rioting) The whole ordeal took about 3 minutes.
My opinion of the whole matter is that it is ridiculous for the family in Miami to insist on Elian to stay in America when he still has a father who lives. (Isn't there some sort of international law regarding this?! Of course I know the US only obeys international laws when it is convienient for them... like paying UN dues they owe) And the whole fact that he may be the coming of the messiah... well religion is something that is not my strong point. Let the boy go back to Cuba and just stop this whole mess. Are Americans so arrogant as to think their society is the best and the America is the place everyone wants to live?!
And yes this whole thread is completely OT.
Someone mentioned this a couple of months back, but you could use GNU Stow for all but a few base libraries. Stow isolates each "package" into its own directory, creating links in /, /usr, or /usr/local automatically. All of the symlink management is done without a database file: you can use `make install prefix=/usr/local/stow/mypkg`, tar up mypkg, and you've got a self-contained binary package. To install, untar, and run `stow mypkg`.
43rd Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr
Wow man!! This is great!!!! I am a C-programmer and I really love Linux. My biggest problem is that I don't know what half of the commands, executables mean. So...doing this would higher my linuxskills and writing an OS is major cool. It's always been a dream and now..... (yeah yeah...hey hdcool, Don't start Dreaming man!) Yeah, I know but we can try hé! And it will be fun!! That's for sure!! Ok, Cya
The idea must be appealing, to marketing depts. at least, for branded versions of an OS. Imagine opening your cornflakes and finding your "Kellogs Linux - The Right Way to Start Your Day" in the box...
Or a Disney linux, lots of _extra_ cute penguins, straight into KDM with nice cartoon pics of users and big colourful buttons for kids.
"Themed" distros if you like.
Billy.
Thats how most people do it, just go to the markets & see.
Try the elian sid for a decent place to discuss this further. If you see any more discussion on this you can point the participants over here...that way the normal stories won't be overcrowded with completely offtopic discussion, the logged in posters won't lose karma or feel they have to AC post, and above all else, the discussion stays in one place instead of being spread out all over the place.
.sig letting them know where to find ?sid=elian and everyone should be a lot happier.
:-)
While I agree that -1 is probably a little harsh, I don't think the moderators would care to much either way if it's in it's own forum. Stick something in your
more ontopic
They said in the article...
''You should understand what is meant by "running make with a parameter of LDFLAGS=-static"''
Anyone care to explain that one to me? I think I can handle about everything else in the minimum user requirements
We at my hunter-gatherer tribe can't seem to find any help on this issue. For some reason, gcc just chokes up on the special version of tree stump we're using. Possibly there's no ASM support for the Oak architecture with coconut extensions?
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
Compiled by two Cro-Magnon and a Neandertal, HG Linux is desgined specifically for the modern computing needs of hunter-gatherers. HG Linux includes our custom Point-and-Grunt interface, simple enough for even the pre-verbal cave-dweller.
We at HG Linux torture tested our distro, by giving it to upper management for a month. Yes, we use our own distribution internally, as many of our tech support personel also have sloping foreheads and prognathous jaws.
We've carefully selected a minimum set of tools, considered uncomplicated enough for use by the illiterate. We know that many of you who are capable of actually READING don't bother to crack the manual open, so printed manuals aren't included. HG Linux is intentionally missing the usual READMEs and manpages. Not to worry! We've replaced them with simplified cave-paintings, in PNG format. Just point and grunt!
http://hglinux.example.org/
[...Example.org: providing all your RFC 2606 compliant sample domain name needs...]
That's a pretty interesting idea. But forget credit card CDs. Complete smartcards could be used to store stuff for us. We will need better smartcards first however... Just wait 5 years. All your ID, and your bank balance and everything will be on a smartcard... All criminals will need is your PIN and they will have access to everything. But what about encryption? Maybe the PIN number should be used to encrypt the information, and we should be allowed to use a-zA-z0-9 in a 8 digit field. That means there would be 62power8 different combinations... Keeping our data secure to pretty much everyone, I guess.
What do you guys think? And how did we get to this anyways? (=
----------
Is this sig off topic?
Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment
Gerard Beekmans registered both... it's a good idea, IMHO
/. at all ;)
he's presently looking into setting up a mirror the site and using prefix's like ca.linuxfromscratch.org becase that little 20k xDSL the site is running on, didn't like
By the time you have made it far enough to have your own Linux distro running on your home system you should have no difficulty finding info on how to burn CDROMs and make installer programs ( you can steal can't you? )
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
I did this myself last year, over a number of weekends. I used an obsolete Slackware install as the base system, running on a small (300MB) partition. Within a few weeks I had a working libc5 system, and a few weeks after that I had recompiled everything with glibc2.1. I learnt quite a bit. I aslo discovered that a lot of autoconf built packages required some really odd software to be installed to allow it to compile correctly. I also needed to do a bit of hacking to get some packages to compile with the latest glibc (typically a namespace clash). This year my hard disk suffered a serious crash rendering it useless - and I hadn't got round to acquiring a suitable backup device. I may try this again, but I'm more likely to go for a Debian unstable installation this time.
If you are going to make pointless political diatribes about relevant topics could you at least have the decency to learn how to fucking spell. I bet you the whole population of Cuba writes better in English than you!!!
"The way she used to say Rimmer as if it rhymed with scum" Red Dwarf