Yes, so Oracle are trying their best to get a complete lock in.
Why does that matter to you?
Are you an Oracle customer? Well, the OS is free and open source, so you can use if if you want, or fork it.
You're not an Oracle customer? Then what really is the point of attacking? How different is Oracle from MS or Microsoft? You don't think they didn't try their best for 100% lock-in?
Ask them why they are unable/unwilling to support industry standard distributions.
Oracle support Redhat, Asianux, SLES10, SLES11 for the latest version of their database.
Also, if you're running the correct kernel version and other associated libraries, then they will also support you.
Pick your distribution, just make sure you're running the required versions of the various packages, and you're fine.
If, on the other hand, you want to pay for Linux support, then yes, Oracle want you to run thier Linux (or Redhat). You can't say this isn't reasonable. Do you expect Redhat to support SLES, or Microsoft to support Android?
Of course, I can't really see the point on paying extra to Oracle for Linux support.
You know, I think that your comment is the most insightful one I've read in a long time.
I read previously how/. has changed over time, and I still had faith that there could be rational discussions, but it looks like I was wrong, and all of the other people who said./ has gone down hill were right.
I started reading./ in late 1997, and it looks like that early culture is really dead and gone forever.
Now days, group think has really taken over.
Just because I state a non-popular opinion, instead of debate, I get modded to hell. It looks like all of the cool kids are attacking Oracle these days, so anything other than full retard anit-Oracle is acceptable.
Gee, the anti-Oracle tools are out in force today. Modded down to 0 for being a troll? Don't worry, I hit the karma cap back when karma was still being shown. You'll get hit back in metamoderation.
So, what don't you agree with?
The fact that unless you're a huge company already using Oracle's products, that you're not the target audience for Oracle Linux?
Fine, instead of modding me down non-stop, have the balls to actually make a comment and engage in useful discussion.
So, as predicted, my comment gets moderated downwards (at least at the time I'm posting this), and all of the comments trashing Oracle have been moderated up.
Ok, let's get this straight, Oracle is an evil company that is a blight on the face of the earth and will do your best to suck your company dry......... but what does this have to do with Oracle's version of linux?
Geez, at least try to make a technical comment about why Oracle's Linux is a poor choice. Ad hominen attacks may make you feel good, but it doesn't add anything to the discussion on the merits of Oracle Linux.
Oracle Linux main target audience is for people that are already using Oracle.
If you're not using Oracle products, and you haven't tried out Oracle Linux, then if you want to make a childish attack on Oracle, there are lots of other places to do it.
If you want to mod me down because you don't agree with me, then why don't you take a chill pill, crack open a cold one, and what the Olympics opening ceremony instead, and let the people who have experience engage in discussion.
Oracle aren't small time dealers, you really have nothing to worry about by using their version of Linux. They aren't going to get you hooked for free, then squeeze you dry. What Oracle do is charge you a lot for the first hit, then try to squeeze you dry.
If you're not already using Oracle's products, then they don't really care about you, you're not the target audience.
My question would be, why on earth would anyone who already isn't using Oracle would want to use their Linux - I can't think of a single reason why.
Oracle is expensive. For most medium sized or less companies, I really couldn't recommend it - it's just too expensive for what it does, and there are a lot of other solutions which are more cost effective.
Once you scale up to large companies, with it departments with hundreds of people, and user bases of thousands to tens of thousands, then the cost per user makes it more reasonable. If you need enterprise scale products, then Oracle software is a good solution.
Oh my. Oracle are just as evil as all of the other major multinational companies. Name me a company the size of Oracle, in any industry, who is not evil.
You don't want to use their products? Fine. If you don't have hundreds of thousands to spend, then they're not really interested in what you think.
You may be big in your pond, and have a low slashdot id, but if you're not an Oracle customer already, they really don't care about it.
Why don't you rant against M$ (and please use the dollar sign when you do it)? They're a big evil software company too.
Well, I'm expecting that we'll see lots of comments like this. People trashing Oracle because it's not free, Oracle are made up of vampire squids, nosql is a better solution.....
Once you grow up and get into the real world, you'll see that ALL large fortune 1000 type companies will use Oracle, or one of the major (expensive) non-free alternatives. There are lots of reasons why, but generally, they get the job done. Whining and complaining about Oracle's software just makes you look like a child.
Now, why use Oracle's Linux? Let me give you a hint, it wasn't made for Richard Stallman. The main target are companies that are already running Oracle's software.
Oracle have a yum server, they supply pre-configured kernels, they have all of the required packages in one place that you need to get the software going. The technical notes on their support site have lots of examples with Linux. If you use either Redhat, or Oracle's Linux, then it's easier to get the software working.
If you're not already an Oracle customer, then it you want to use Oracle's Linux, then that's fine, and they're happy for you to use it..... BUT, you're NOT their main target audience.
What Oracle want you to do these days is buy their Exadata servers, with everything, hardware, software, storage, etc, all supplied by Oracle. If they could lock you in to being only Oracle, then they would love it. And have you ever looked at the price? To get a fully loaded Exadata, with Oracle software costs the same as a house.
So, if you're a screaming freetard, go on and keep flaming away at Oracle, they don't care, you don't have the money.
I've used Oracle professionally for over 20 years, so, it's expensive...... you know, I don't care, I've never paid the bills.
You want to know something? Because it's so expensive, then the companies that can afford it can also afford to pay high amounts for the people who look after it, and that's where I come in.
So, please, whinge, cry, rant and complain. Please do not use the software. Fortune 1000 companies will continue to use it, no matter what you say. Please do not learn how to use the software, and convince your friends not to either. I really appreciate that you're helping to restrict supply of skilled Oracle people, it helps keep up my daily rate.
What I don't understand is that you appear to think that the only way to have knowledge in other areas is via formal education. I know huge amounts of US, European, Chinese, Japanese history, but I never studied it at university (and I'm not from any of those places). I've read books on philosophy, but not because I was obliged.
I already have a computing qualification, but I'm now doing a BSc in Math part time. I don't know how much you've studied math, but there is sooooo much to learn, than in a degree with only math subjects taken, there isn't enough time to learn significant amounts in more than one or two fields - for everything else, you just get a superficial knowledge. And, to really learn more advanced topics in just one area, it looks like I'll need to take a masters.
Being well rounded is why we have high school. It looks like the US high school education system doesn't give you the rounded general education, so instead you have to get it at university. Most other university education systems that I know of don't work like that.
Some of the people here are, to be blunt, not very nice.
Welcome to Slashdot!
You know, it wasn't always like this. I've been around since before the time that accounts were created (I held off creating an account, like a lot of other people, since I didn't like the idea of logging in to read a website, times have changed). I think things started to change for the worse after Rob Malda sold the site and it was bought (for the first time) and people starting coming here because it was 'cool', and then a flood of juvenile people turned up.
It sort of reminds me of the never ending September with Usenet. (I was on Usenet back since 1986, probably before most people here were even born.) Before that September, Usenet was a 'small', friendly community, made up of mostly university types and large companies.
Where was I?... Ah, yes, well, we used to hitch an onion to our belt, as that was the fashion at the time....
In fact, the Channel Tunnel also uses ANPR when taking Le Shuttle to get across. After you've gone through once, on the return trip it automatically recognizes your plate and greets you with your trip details. It appears to work for all different countries plates.
In general I agree with you. Oracle doesn't need to be a corporation to be a sociopath, after all, they have Larry.
They have a RedHat-derived Linux distro that no one uses...
That bit isn't correct. A lot of people use it, but when they do, it's solely used with an Oracle database, or an application server for Oracle's products. I've personally set up many machines to run Larry's Linux with his software.
People who are not running Oracle software don't have any reason to run Oracle's Linux, but Oracle don't care, since they made it for their customers (so Oracle can exert more control).
Isaac Asimov had, his Robot stories seem a bit naive
Are you sure you read the same Asimov Robot stories as everyone else? Asimov would set up his laws of robotics, and then go on to show how problems would occur by following those rules.
Remember when he added the 0th rule in one of his later books? Again is was because he was NOT naive and knew that the 3 rules were not enough.
Hmm.... you got modded up for that...... You know, you couldn't be more wrong. I've worked on ERP/CRM systems for over 20 years for many, many companies. Every single company has had to make modifications. The ERP/CRM system comes with tools to create modifications. None of the businesses could work with an unmodified system. Probably, only small companies could survive with an unmodified ERP/CRM system. I guarantee you than any company with 1000+employees will have customisations.
I agree. I'm an Oracle DBA, and someone who wants to have the server rebooted every month is taking the easy way out and probably doesn't understand all of the processes that their system runs.
Most versions of the Oracle Server software have had problems that eat up memory or have processes that will eventually hang. The correct way to deal with this is to test and patch, although it isn't always possible to reproduce issues in a non-production system, as the production load and usage can be very difficult to reproduce.
I have also been in position where I've been "over-ruled" and instead of investigating the issue, the management has decided to just reboot every week to resolve the issues, which does actually work, even though it is a short sighted solution.
On the other hand, rebooting servers should be a straight forward task, and should be automated - So I gather that your excuse of being short staffed was just a lie to get your way.
About 7 years ago, I was driving my Lotus Elise (beautiful car, I sold it for almost what is cost me), and the traffic all of a sudden came to a stop. The car in front was too close to the car in front of it (or going too fast) and they hit. I was able to slow down enough to not hit them, and I did my best to use up all of the space in front of me to help the car behind not hit me. The car behind me stopped without hitting me, but the car behind him didn't, and went into the back of him.
Because I was in a light car with good breaks, I didn't hit anyone, and didn't get hit, while the cars in front and behind hit each other. If the all of the cars had have been Lotus Elises, then I'm sure that no-one would have hit.
Indeed. I would go so far as to say that this was actually a success.
The U.S. military now have better knowledge of the North Korea's capability and tactics. They now know that in the even of war, before the drop any GPS guided munitions, they now have the exact location of a target to take out.
This is no different to the old Soviet days, when US planes would test Soviet defenses, provoking a reaction to gain intelligence.
Ok, some more anecdotal evidence. We have two children. For our second, due to the medication my wife was taking, it wasn't advisable to breast feed, so we used formula. I haven't noticed any difference between the children. In fact the formula fed one developed better, as the breast fed one was always less than 0.05 percentile on weight and height. My non-scientific guess would be that genetic and environmental factors play a larger.
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Oracle has withheld certification from RHEL 6
Right, this is directly from Oracle's support website, on the certification of Oracle 11.2 :
Certification Information for Oracle Database on Linux x86-64 [ID 1304727.1]
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 - Database 11.2.0.3 and higher
Red Hat kernel 2.6.32-71.el6.x86_64 or later
Oracle Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel (UEK R1) 2.6.32-100.28.5.el6.x86_64 or later
There's the document id. If you have access to Oracle support, you can look it up.
Ok, so why are you making things up???? Just to be cool to attach Oracle? Fun making baseless statements?
Yes, so Oracle are trying their best to get a complete lock in.
Why does that matter to you?
Are you an Oracle customer? Well, the OS is free and open source, so you can use if if you want, or fork it.
You're not an Oracle customer? Then what really is the point of attacking? How different is Oracle from MS or Microsoft? You don't think they didn't try their best for 100% lock-in?
Ask them why they are unable/unwilling to support industry standard distributions.
Oracle support Redhat, Asianux, SLES10, SLES11 for the latest version of their database.
Also, if you're running the correct kernel version and other associated libraries, then they will also support you.
Pick your distribution, just make sure you're running the required versions of the various packages, and you're fine.
If, on the other hand, you want to pay for Linux support, then yes, Oracle want you to run thier Linux (or Redhat). You can't say this isn't reasonable. Do you expect Redhat to support SLES, or Microsoft to support Android?
Of course, I can't really see the point on paying extra to Oracle for Linux support.
You know, I think that your comment is the most insightful one I've read in a long time.
I read previously how /. has changed over time, and I still had faith that there could be rational discussions, but it looks like I was wrong, and all of the other people who said ./ has gone down hill were right.
I started reading ./ in late 1997, and it looks like that early culture is really dead and gone forever.
Now days, group think has really taken over.
Just because I state a non-popular opinion, instead of debate, I get modded to hell. It looks like all of the cool kids are attacking Oracle these days, so anything other than full retard anit-Oracle is acceptable.
Gee, the anti-Oracle tools are out in force today. Modded down to 0 for being a troll? Don't worry, I hit the karma cap back when karma was still being shown. You'll get hit back in metamoderation.
So, what don't you agree with?
The fact that unless you're a huge company already using Oracle's products, that you're not the target audience for Oracle Linux?
Fine, instead of modding me down non-stop, have the balls to actually make a comment and engage in useful discussion.
Yes, Oracle are trying to send everything to India.
And, maybe that they would like to give the impression that you don't need a DBA, but that's not the reality.
So, what does this have to do with using Oracle Linux?
Nothing..... you just want to flame since you probably make you think it makes you look cool. It doesn't.
So, as predicted, my comment gets moderated downwards (at least at the time I'm posting this), and all of the comments trashing Oracle have been moderated up.
Ok, let's get this straight, Oracle is an evil company that is a blight on the face of the earth and will do your best to suck your company dry..... .... but what does this have to do with Oracle's version of linux?
Geez, at least try to make a technical comment about why Oracle's Linux is a poor choice. Ad hominen attacks may make you feel good, but it doesn't add anything to the discussion on the merits of Oracle Linux.
Oracle Linux main target audience is for people that are already using Oracle.
If you're not using Oracle products, and you haven't tried out Oracle Linux, then if you want to make a childish attack on Oracle, there are lots of other places to do it.
If you want to mod me down because you don't agree with me, then why don't you take a chill pill, crack open a cold one, and what the Olympics opening ceremony instead, and let the people who have experience engage in discussion.
Oracle aren't small time dealers, you really have nothing to worry about by using their version of Linux. They aren't going to get you hooked for free, then squeeze you dry. What Oracle do is charge you a lot for the first hit, then try to squeeze you dry.
If you're not already using Oracle's products, then they don't really care about you, you're not the target audience.
My question would be, why on earth would anyone who already isn't using Oracle would want to use their Linux - I can't think of a single reason why.
Oracle is expensive. For most medium sized or less companies, I really couldn't recommend it - it's just too expensive for what it does, and there are a lot of other solutions which are more cost effective.
Once you scale up to large companies, with it departments with hundreds of people, and user bases of thousands to tens of thousands, then the cost per user makes it more reasonable. If you need enterprise scale products, then Oracle software is a good solution.
Oh my. Oracle are just as evil as all of the other major multinational companies. Name me a company the size of Oracle, in any industry, who is not evil.
You don't want to use their products? Fine. If you don't have hundreds of thousands to spend, then they're not really interested in what you think.
You may be big in your pond, and have a low slashdot id, but if you're not an Oracle customer already, they really don't care about it.
Why don't you rant against M$ (and please use the dollar sign when you do it)? They're a big evil software company too.
Yes, they do guarantee. It's no secret, the product lifecycle is on their support website.
Also, what Oracle have put together is all open sourced, so you're free to fork it if you want.
Well, I'm expecting that we'll see lots of comments like this. People trashing Oracle because it's not free, Oracle are made up of vampire squids, nosql is a better solution.....
Once you grow up and get into the real world, you'll see that ALL large fortune 1000 type companies will use Oracle, or one of the major (expensive) non-free alternatives. There are lots of reasons why, but generally, they get the job done. Whining and complaining about Oracle's software just makes you look like a child.
Now, why use Oracle's Linux? Let me give you a hint, it wasn't made for Richard Stallman. The main target are companies that are already running Oracle's software.
Oracle have a yum server, they supply pre-configured kernels, they have all of the required packages in one place that you need to get the software going. The technical notes on their support site have lots of examples with Linux. If you use either Redhat, or Oracle's Linux, then it's easier to get the software working.
If you're not already an Oracle customer, then it you want to use Oracle's Linux, then that's fine, and they're happy for you to use it..... BUT, you're NOT their main target audience.
What Oracle want you to do these days is buy their Exadata servers, with everything, hardware, software, storage, etc, all supplied by Oracle. If they could lock you in to being only Oracle, then they would love it. And have you ever looked at the price? To get a fully loaded Exadata, with Oracle software costs the same as a house.
So, if you're a screaming freetard, go on and keep flaming away at Oracle, they don't care, you don't have the money.
I've used Oracle professionally for over 20 years, so, it's expensive...... you know, I don't care, I've never paid the bills.
You want to know something? Because it's so expensive, then the companies that can afford it can also afford to pay high amounts for the people who look after it, and that's where I come in.
So, please, whinge, cry, rant and complain. Please do not use the software. Fortune 1000 companies will continue to use it, no matter what you say. Please do not learn how to use the software, and convince your friends not to either. I really appreciate that you're helping to restrict supply of skilled Oracle people, it helps keep up my daily rate.
What I don't understand is that you appear to think that the only way to have knowledge in other areas is via formal education. I know huge amounts of US, European, Chinese, Japanese history, but I never studied it at university (and I'm not from any of those places). I've read books on philosophy, but not because I was obliged.
I already have a computing qualification, but I'm now doing a BSc in Math part time. I don't know how much you've studied math, but there is sooooo much to learn, than in a degree with only math subjects taken, there isn't enough time to learn significant amounts in more than one or two fields - for everything else, you just get a superficial knowledge. And, to really learn more advanced topics in just one area, it looks like I'll need to take a masters.
Being well rounded is why we have high school. It looks like the US high school education system doesn't give you the rounded general education, so instead you have to get it at university. Most other university education systems that I know of don't work like that.
Some of the people here are, to be blunt, not very nice.
Welcome to Slashdot!
You know, it wasn't always like this. I've been around since before the time that accounts were created (I held off creating an account, like a lot of other people, since I didn't like the idea of logging in to read a website, times have changed). I think things started to change for the worse after Rob Malda sold the site and it was bought (for the first time) and people starting coming here because it was 'cool', and then a flood of juvenile people turned up.
It sort of reminds me of the never ending September with Usenet. (I was on Usenet back since 1986, probably before most people here were even born.) Before that September, Usenet was a 'small', friendly community, made up of mostly university types and large companies.
Where was I?... Ah, yes, well, we used to hitch an onion to our belt, as that was the fashion at the time ....
Hmmm.... insightful?
Can you say "Selection bias"?
I've just jumped out of a 20 story building, after 10 floors, everything is fine, so I don't expect it to be any different after another 10......
Now, if you could point to a study showing that the failure rates of SSDs vs HDDs are no different.
Well, I can see a difference.
People were calling Bush a chimp because of his lack of intellect.
People were calling Obama a chimp solely because of the colour of his skin.
You can't see the difference?
Or do you think that Obama is just as intelligent or less than Bush?
(I'll give you a hint, one insult is directed to the specific person, the other is directed to a race. Can you tell which is which?)
In fact, the Channel Tunnel also uses ANPR when taking Le Shuttle to get across. After you've gone through once, on the return trip it automatically recognizes your plate and greets you with your trip details. It appears to work for all different countries plates.
In general I agree with you. Oracle doesn't need to be a corporation to be a sociopath, after all, they have Larry.
They have a RedHat-derived Linux distro that no one uses...
That bit isn't correct. A lot of people use it, but when they do, it's solely used with an Oracle database, or an application server for Oracle's products. I've personally set up many machines to run Larry's Linux with his software.
People who are not running Oracle software don't have any reason to run Oracle's Linux, but Oracle don't care, since they made it for their customers (so Oracle can exert more control).
The Eurozone crisis is not ours, and it has had no impact here.
Oh, ok. You have nothing to worry about.
So who are your major trading partners? In the EU? Or do these partners have the EU as a major trading partner?
Isaac Asimov had, his Robot stories seem a bit naive
Are you sure you read the same Asimov Robot stories as everyone else? Asimov would set up his laws of robotics, and then go on to show how problems would occur by following those rules.
Remember when he added the 0th rule in one of his later books? Again is was because he was NOT naive and knew that the 3 rules were not enough.
Hmm.... you got modded up for that...... You know, you couldn't be more wrong.
I've worked on ERP/CRM systems for over 20 years for many, many companies. Every single company has had to make modifications. The ERP/CRM system comes with tools to create modifications. None of the businesses could work with an unmodified system.
Probably, only small companies could survive with an unmodified ERP/CRM system. I guarantee you than any company with 1000+employees will have customisations.
I agree. I'm an Oracle DBA, and someone who wants to have the server rebooted every month is taking the easy way out and probably doesn't understand all of the processes that their system runs.
Most versions of the Oracle Server software have had problems that eat up memory or have processes that will eventually hang. The correct way to deal with this is to test and patch, although it isn't always possible to reproduce issues in a non-production system, as the production load and usage can be very difficult to reproduce.
I have also been in position where I've been "over-ruled" and instead of investigating the issue, the management has decided to just reboot every week to resolve the issues, which does actually work, even though it is a short sighted solution.
On the other hand, rebooting servers should be a straight forward task, and should be automated - So I gather that your excuse of being short staffed was just a lie to get your way.
Does it?
About 7 years ago, I was driving my Lotus Elise (beautiful car, I sold it for almost what is cost me), and the traffic all of a sudden came to a stop. The car in front was too close to the car in front of it (or going too fast) and they hit. I was able to slow down enough to not hit them, and I did my best to use up all of the space in front of me to help the car behind not hit me. The car behind me stopped without hitting me, but the car behind him didn't, and went into the back of him.
Because I was in a light car with good breaks, I didn't hit anyone, and didn't get hit, while the cars in front and behind hit each other. If the all of the cars had have been Lotus Elises, then I'm sure that no-one would have hit.
So, it this case, the light car won.
Indeed. I would go so far as to say that this was actually a success.
The U.S. military now have better knowledge of the North Korea's capability and tactics. They now know that in the even of war, before the drop any GPS guided munitions, they now have the exact location of a target to take out.
This is no different to the old Soviet days, when US planes would test Soviet defenses, provoking a reaction to gain intelligence.
Ok, some more anecdotal evidence. We have two children. For our second, due to the medication my wife was taking, it wasn't advisable to breast feed, so we used formula.
I haven't noticed any difference between the children. In fact the formula fed one developed better, as the breast fed one was always less than 0.05 percentile on weight and height.
My non-scientific guess would be that genetic and environmental factors play a larger.