ok, i guess it can be said once more, just because i liked this "more holes" stuff. Nobody wants ms to rip away media player. Just the OPTION to uninstall it would be just fine.
Now, uninstalling media player would NOT lead to "many more holes in the code". A "hole" is actually not a piece of code removed, it's a piece of code being there doing the wrong thing.
But you are right they really should be called humbs:))
Yes, i fully understand you, try to understand though that this is very much why the other companies are filling suites in the first place.
Do you code in java? do you expect to see it there?
And what format would you use for the videos your application would play? would you bundle realplayer files? nah -- wmv will 100% be there.
And finally, what if your application didn't just needed "some video functionality" but it was a video player itself? (well i guess you could just not do such an application)
No no no. First of all,linux is competitive, with NO such techniques.
Second, you don't need two different versions of a library for two apps, that's the beauty, you can compile everything (or find a compiled package) to use anything you have. It's windows that you need all those versions of libraries to run apps.
Third, believe it or not, they actually sue microsoft ONLY when they break laws. (at least i can't remember any anti-competitive case microsoft won lately)
simply there are money to be made from selling this stuff (and MS actually DOES sell office) while there more money to be made from giving away the other stuff (that Ms actually forces on people).
But what is the matter with you guys ? Nobody sais to remove them!! It's the OPTION to remove them that is important.
I wonder how did you get the impression that you can compare the filesystem and a scheduler with an application. ( Maybe because you have been told the they can both be "fundamental part of an OS"??? )
A point i can think of is that if i sell a computer i have to sell THEIR browser, and not the OTHER browser. I could sell both of course, but for several reasons (confusion of users, more disk space needed, problem with the file associations) this could put ME in disadvantage. So the OTHER browser is practically off the market.
If you don't understand this then just tell me, whats the big deal with letting me uninstall explorer?
the first thing you learn in any Human-Computer Interaction course is that developers know squat about how regular people use computers.
Well the first thing you learn in science is that real life is not what you measured in the lab.
as only geeks like us;-) comment on computer interfaces online
Geeks like us (at least like me) also comment on computer interfaces to other people.
Balsa is still in active development and is only one install away from being on your system!
So is enlighntenment and sawfish, but not thanks to gnome anymore.
My point is that there are enough native apps for linux (except games) now so I don't need it. Maybe others do though, thats why i said propably.
Samba on the other hand is good by itself, you can use it for a linux network, in several occasions it has helped me more than NFS. I NEVER used a win desktop app instead of a linux app through wine though.
Games a prerequésite ? well, that's my point: it isn't.
Usability tests? Come on, there is no better test than the internet. Put it there and see if people like it.
Why listen to usability tests to strip off features ? I LOVED enlightenment, why did it have to go? Why did sawfish have to go? why did balsa have to go?
I definetely appreciate that their job is open-sourced but they are NOT really helping if they adopt a project, then throw it away and start something else.
For once the kde project sticked from the very beggining to its own tools and they ALL got very much better. Is kword better than abi ? i don't know, i don't care. But i know there are two of them being developed. I wouldn't want to loose an option 'cause OO is "better" than gnumeric.
Being political oriented is not an idea, it's the only EXCUSE for all the things they are doing!!!
if you need to atract gamers, a playstation emulator sounds much better.
But linux does not need to attract gamers. They can stick to windows, nobody cares. I have played so many games i can't count them, i never gave a shit what OS i was using. But i need linux to get my WORK done.
Wine is good for nothing propably but it's a really nice project from an educational point of view.
I am sorry when was that? i never even saw OS/2 on any desktop computer!!!
OS/2 was never a desktop OS and never had a marketshare there. It came bundled with ps/2s' and that's all it ever got.
What really killed OS/2 is that you couldn't get it for free.
i've been around computers for 1 1/2 decades, and i NEVER saw anything open loosing against anything closed. I could get a windows 95 cd anytime but i couldn't find an OS/2 cd before warp.
The main reason to buy a new cpu is to do something you COULDN'T do before.
Many people upgraded to 386 to run win31. Not so many went for the 486. Again to use win95 and play let's say mp3 you needed a Pentium. so many people upgraded to pentium.
(notice that i am talking about upgrades, not all those people that bought NEW computers at the time).
Still P-100 was ok for almost anything, nobody upgraded to P-200, or even P-MMX when they came out. But you can't watch movies on a Pentium ( well, maybe a pentium 233 MMX) and those old soyo's didn't come with USB support (not before the MMX family again). So everybody rushed for P-II's.
At this point , you can do (almost) anything a P-4 3 Ghz does on a simple celeron 333. There is no need to upgrade. Since 1999 we are still waiting for the next killer app. (Games? yeah, sure)
Till them my poor celeron, with 768 MB of really cheap RAM and my faithfull G400 will be just fine.
if MS is going to say anything at all about open source, I want it on _our_ terms and in _our_ forums, not theirs.
"ok boys the castle is secured, let them come" ? this sounds weak and pathetic. It would be much more fun to hear OS people on MS's forum. Maybe that should be something all OS people should have in mind. Talk in MS forums. If opensource has an argument, it should be no problem to confront them on their field.
Well, there is a better way, have a "debate conference". Even better do it on a "shared source conference" but i heve the feeling that is not going to happen.
then i guess a shared source conference would be just as good ? So why not rename it to "shared source conference and just invite some open source zealots ?
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ok, i guess it can be said once more, just because i liked this "more holes" stuff. Nobody wants ms to rip away media player. Just the OPTION to uninstall it would be just fine.
:))
Now, uninstalling media player would NOT lead to "many more holes in the code". A "hole" is actually not a piece of code removed, it's a piece of code being there doing the wrong thing.
But you are right they really should be called humbs
Yes, i fully understand you, try to understand though that this is very much why the other companies are filling suites in the first place.
Do you code in java? do you expect to see it there?
And what format would you use for the videos your application would play? would you bundle realplayer files? nah -- wmv will 100% be there.
And finally, what if your application didn't just needed "some video functionality" but it was a video player itself? (well i guess you could just not do such an application)
No no no. First of all,linux is competitive, with NO such techniques.
Second, you don't need two different versions of a library for two apps, that's the beauty, you can compile everything (or find a compiled package) to use anything you have. It's windows that you need all those versions of libraries to run apps.
Third, believe it or not, they actually sue microsoft ONLY when they break laws. (at least i can't remember any anti-competitive case microsoft won lately)
suppose we mandate 'open formats' for those media files
mandate? how? are there any categories for them?
for the same reason it is illegal for a convicted prisoner to take a walk around times square.
i simply throw the fries away, and voila i have a burger with NO fries.
simply there are money to be made from selling this stuff (and MS actually DOES sell office) while there more money to be made from giving away the other stuff (that Ms actually forces on people).
Actually no, it's because there are fundamental parts of the OS and "fundamental" parts of the OS.
But what is the matter with you guys ? Nobody sais to remove them!! It's the OPTION to remove them that is important.
I wonder how did you get the impression that you can compare the filesystem and a scheduler with an application. ( Maybe because you have been told the they can both be "fundamental part of an OS"??? )
Coll, so what if i want to use ANOTHER media player which is for windows ?
A point i can think of is that if i sell a computer i have to sell THEIR browser, and not the OTHER browser. I could sell both of course, but for several reasons (confusion of users, more disk space needed, problem with the file associations) this could put ME in disadvantage. So the OTHER browser is practically off the market.
If you don't understand this then just tell me, whats the big deal with letting me uninstall explorer?
the first thing you learn in any Human-Computer Interaction course is that developers know squat about how regular people use computers.
;-) comment on computer interfaces online
Well the first thing you learn in science is that real life is not what you measured in the lab.
as only geeks like us
Geeks like us (at least like me) also comment on computer interfaces to other people.
Balsa is still in active development and is only one install away from being on your system!
So is enlighntenment and sawfish, but not thanks to gnome anymore.
My point is that there are enough native apps for linux (except games) now so I don't need it. Maybe others do though, thats why i said propably.
Samba on the other hand is good by itself, you can use it for a linux network, in several occasions it has helped me more than NFS. I NEVER used a win desktop app instead of a linux app through wine though.
Games a prerequésite ? well, that's my point: it isn't.
Well, it's more like GNOME is a GIMP program :>
and some gconf backup MOST definetely. But then again how would a simple user do it ?
Usability tests? Come on, there is no better test than the internet. Put it there and see if people like it.
Why listen to usability tests to strip off features ? I LOVED enlightenment, why did it have to go? Why did sawfish have to go? why did balsa have to go?
I definetely appreciate that their job is open-sourced but they are NOT really helping if they adopt a project, then throw it away and start something else.
For once the kde project sticked from the very beggining to its own tools and they ALL got very much better. Is kword better than abi ? i don't know, i don't care. But i know there are two of them being developed. I wouldn't want to loose an option 'cause OO is "better" than gnumeric.
Being political oriented is not an idea, it's the only EXCUSE for all the things they are doing!!!
if you need to atract gamers, a playstation emulator sounds much better.
But linux does not need to attract gamers. They can stick to windows, nobody cares. I have played so many games i can't count them, i never gave a shit what OS i was using. But i need linux to get my WORK done.
Wine is good for nothing propably but it's a really nice project from an educational point of view.
I am sorry when was that? i never even saw OS/2 on any desktop computer!!!
OS/2 was never a desktop OS and never had a marketshare there. It came bundled with ps/2s' and that's all it ever got.
What really killed OS/2 is that you couldn't get it for free.
i've been around computers for 1 1/2 decades, and i NEVER saw anything open loosing against anything closed. I could get a windows 95 cd anytime but i couldn't find an OS/2 cd before warp.
The main reason to buy a new cpu is to do something you COULDN'T do before.
Many people upgraded to 386 to run win31. Not so many went for the 486. Again to use win95 and play let's say mp3 you needed a Pentium. so many people upgraded to pentium.
(notice that i am talking about upgrades, not all those people that bought NEW computers at the time).
Still P-100 was ok for almost anything, nobody upgraded to P-200, or even P-MMX when they came out. But you can't watch movies on a Pentium ( well, maybe a pentium 233 MMX) and those old soyo's didn't come with USB support (not before the MMX family again). So everybody rushed for P-II's.
At this point , you can do (almost) anything a P-4 3 Ghz does on a simple celeron 333. There is no need to upgrade. Since 1999 we are still waiting for the next killer app. (Games? yeah, sure)
Till them my poor celeron, with 768 MB of really cheap RAM and my faithfull G400 will be just fine.
just a little thing, you cannot post and moderate on the same discussion :(
some type of remote service (Terminal Services, for example)
hey you are trying to save bandwith.
if MS is going to say anything at all about open source, I want it on _our_ terms and in _our_ forums, not theirs.
"ok boys the castle is secured, let them come" ? this sounds weak and pathetic. It would be much more fun to hear OS people on MS's forum.
Maybe that should be something all OS people should have in mind. Talk in MS forums. If opensource has an argument, it should be no problem to confront them on their field.
Well, there is a better way, have a "debate conference".
Even better do it on a "shared source conference" but i heve the feeling that is not going to happen.
then i guess a shared source conference would be just as good ? So why not rename it to "shared source conference and just invite some open source zealots ?
well, lawers have been making money for a while now..