Hehe, funny, I came across this reply to my statement after wondering across a few of your other posts and wondering the same thing. So I guess it probably was just a bad joke.
Just because your haven't bothered to know what Intelligent Design is does not mean it makes no predictions or is supported by no evidence. If you want to argue against the predictions or the evidence, by all means thats your right. But mouthing off about things you no nothing of is just stupid.
Similarly, as we've seen on this thread, how could anyone believe that this same God makes himself truly present in consecrated bread and wine all because he wants us to eat him?
Yeah, so you think christ wanted us to canabolize his body. But then later when this was pointed out you said it would be crazy for anyone to believe that. So please, decide what you believe and are trying to say, because right now, I have no idea what you are trying to argue, you make no sense at all.
Ok, so I read through this entire thread a couple times hoping somewhere along the line you would actualy say something. I have come to the conclusion that your are simply puting as many words together in an attempt to look like you are trying to make a point while realy saying nothing of any value at all. I guess that would make you a rather well done troll.
For instance, ask a fundie what he makes of Christ telling his disciples in John 6:25-70 that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood if they are to have any life in them. They'll probably tell you that Christ was just being metaphorical. But then why did all of his disciples walk off in disgust without Christ calling after them, "But I was just being metaphorical!"? There is another curious connection to this in 1 Cor 9:17-30 where St. Paul is telling the Corinthians that many among them are sick and have died because they have not discerned the Body and Blood of Christ when they have come together for the Lord's Supper. This IS NOT just a metaphor!
Umm... yeah, actualy it is a metaphor, and its pretty clear, as in no sane human could possibly argue otherwise if they have a clue what they are talking about.
Lets look at some verses: First the verse you list where Jesus uses his body and blood as a metaphor for his death and resurection. Any one reading it knows he is using it as a metaphor, so read it for yourself here
And the verse that makes it clear if you still have trouble with the first one.
Luke 22:19-20 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."
It is a metaphor to him being the food of life, nurturing and feeding our souls, and of his death on the cross where his blood payed for our sins.
No our best weapon since WW2 has been the fact that we were the only ones who stood between Europe and Soviet Comunist expansion. And even then Europe did was publicly very critical of most of the things we did. And no, choosing the "high ethical standard" is for the most part worth crap in international politics. It is the appearance of ethics that matters. Because thats as far as most people pay attention anyway. And in most cases they can fit the facts to meet there preconcived conceptions, without having to ignore or change them too much. And in this case the US is doing what is feels is the moral thing. We have liberated a nation from a brutal dictator. There is no advantage at all to having the moral high ground. There would be no fight at all if both sides agreed on the moral high gound and cared about it.
You answered your own question there, yep, they still need a subpoena, same as before, some rules were changed to make it easier to get subpoenas, and stuff like that. It was mostly an administrative fine tuning bill to take alot of red tape out of the way. As for the parts that were ruled unconstitutional, I'm not going to do your research for you if you can't be bothered to do a simple search for "patriot act unconstitutional" on google.
Your still arguing against a straw man of your own creation rather than reading what I am actualy saying. And yes pleanty of Americans are racist and intolerant, it is a trait that is universal to all human societies and unfortunately one that will likely never go away, but what exactly is your point?
In your example above, perhaps the murderer might know you.... and if you asked him to stop, or stood in between him and his potential victim, he might stop attacking out of respect for you. If, on the other hand, he thinks you're scum, your words are useless, and if you try to intervene you'll probably get the pointy end yourself. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I reread that 5 or 6 times, and I'm still shocked. I can't believe someone could possibly be so nieve as to not just believe that tripe, but believe it so much as to post it online in an attempt to win an argument. Wow. I would try to argue but as it apears you are living in a differnt reality from mine my words will probably be wasted.
Your right it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but it wasn't "a rung or two above a concentration camp" or even close. To even suggest so is rather insulting to all the people who have suffered through concentration camps. Yes people died there, people die all the time, in all kinds of places, it's something that happens to humans. The only reason you would bring it up is to suggest that they were "murdered by the evil Americans" regardless of the fact that its just not true.
As for Europe and The Middle East not hating us, thats just rediculus. I'll take Europe first because the two are as different as night and day. So Europe was simpathetic for the most part for a while after 9-11 as anyone would be after such event. And then they gave a few token gestures for a while longer as not to look insensitive too soon. That doesn't change the fact that for DECADES Europe has disliked the US. Go back and look at new coverage of all the trips Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton took to Europe, just change the name of the president and the issues being protested and they are no different that those about the visits from Bush II. Europe always has some reason to hate the US and I'm sure they will always be able to find some reason, lifes easier when you can blame someone else for you problems. As for the Middle East, What!?!? You can't seriously predend that there is anything but contempt for the US in much of it. Sure there are some countries, namely Isreal and Kuwait being good examples that don't but Syria? You have to be joking, Syria barely made it off the Axis of Evil list only because they realy lack the ability to do much of anything. Syria has been a major sponsor of terorists for a long time, just look at whats going on with there occupation of Lebanon right now. Egypt is an ally only as far as the money paying for there millitary. Over all though the Middle East is far more complex than just a simple they hate us or don't and there are alot of differnt feelings and motivations in the region. But the only thing that is for sure is that the invasion of Iraq is not the reason for anger in the Middle East, it's a reason for those who already didn't like us, but thats about it, and once again, they can and will find pleanty of reasons.
As for the Patriot Act, it has nothing to do with spying, and doesn't affect anyone outside the US. If your refering to the enemy combatant detention and torture at Guantanamo that could be an entirely new discution. And your going to have to clarify just what you mean by "extralegal rendition".
The Tenth isn't at all vague. It is very simple in what it says, and that is, "unless they constitution gives the federal government the right to do something, or denys the states the right, it is a right reserved for the states or the people." And since the constitution doesn't give the federal government the power to set up any Social Security, Medicare, or alot of other things the federal government does. Of course they can find truely vague loopholes to let them get away with just about anything as long as we have a supreme court that will let them get away with it.
As for the Patriot act, those parts of the patriot act that abused the rights granted under the constitution were ruled unconstitutional by the courts along time ago. Second, there is realy no mention of privacy or any right to it in the constitution, all those rights have been set by court ruling. But the Patriot act doesn't have anything to do with privacy, so I'm not sure why you would bring that up.
First off there were no "American concentration camps" your a loon if you thing other wise. There were however "internment camps" and yes there is a very large difference. See people were not sent to internment camps to perform slave labor under poor living conditions with little food till they died or were just killed anyway. Yes they were a horible experience for those who went through it, but no where near anything experienced in a concentration camp. Second, the US has been hated by europe and the middle east for decades, this is nothing new, and in 10 years they will have new reasons to hate us, it's just what they do. And to suggest that they had anything but contempt for us before Bush II and the war on terror is also silly and very uninformed.
Well, everyone seems to accept Social Security, Medicare, Campain Finance reform, and a whole slew of other laws that are flagrantly unconstitutional, as long as they support the ideas behind them. I realy wish those of you on the left would care about the constitution when it came to all the socialist issues that the federal government is trying to push. And don't think I'm defending the patriot act, but I definately don't view it as the end of the world, or even close. The courts have already wiped the worst parts of the law, and I don'see there being enough support in congress to push it through again. This country has survived far worse in terms of government abuse (you did study US history right?) and I see no reason to suggest we won't survive this as well.
Doesn't matter, because the other standard isn't being pushed by a government, but by a group whos members are large international corperations who care more about making money than producing crapy standards so they can spy on people.
Businesses have been leaving California for years. In fact it was a big enough problem that it was one of the Governators biggest campain pledges last year, to reverse many of the stupid taxes that you support because they didn't increase revenue, they just encouraged people to leave. Compared to California, all the surrounding states are bargain states, especialy Navada.
While this post was modded funny, its realy sad how true it is. I though Oregon was screwed up before I moved here. Its been two years, and I'm still regularly finding new examples of just how out of touch with reality the legeslators in Sacramento are. This push to control and monitor every little aspect of the peoples lives has been going on for a long time here.
I'm far more curious how the GP rationalized turning a post about how the governments of Oregon and California proposed GPS for cars in to a rant on Bush and Cheney's drinking back in the 70's.
I like your favorite quote, though being a republic, there is one that I think is a bit more apropriate. I can't find it anywhere, but it goes something like this:
"A Republic will survive up until the point where its representatives find they can bribe the voters with there own money"
I'm realy curious where you are going to school. I haven't had a single profesor anything like that. I could show up half way through class and they wouldn't care at all. Of cource I'm in California, not the midwest, but I just have a hard time believing that it could be that different.
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Hehe, funny, I came across this reply to my statement after wondering across a few of your other posts and wondering the same thing. So I guess it probably was just a bad joke.
Just because your haven't bothered to know what Intelligent Design is does not mean it makes no predictions or is supported by no evidence. If you want to argue against the predictions or the evidence, by all means thats your right. But mouthing off about things you no nothing of is just stupid.
I'm not sure whats more telling of the left, that this product exists, or that it is modded informative.
Similarly, as we've seen on this thread, how could anyone believe that this same God makes himself truly present in consecrated bread and wine all because he wants us to eat him?
Yeah, so you think christ wanted us to canabolize his body. But then later when this was pointed out you said it would be crazy for anyone to believe that. So please, decide what you believe and are trying to say, because right now, I have no idea what you are trying to argue, you make no sense at all.
Ok, so I read through this entire thread a couple times hoping somewhere along the line you would actualy say something. I have come to the conclusion that your are simply puting as many words together in an attempt to look like you are trying to make a point while realy saying nothing of any value at all. I guess that would make you a rather well done troll.
Perhaps, but it was writen in Hebrew, by Moses, who was definately not familiar with Aramaic slang.
For instance, ask a fundie what he makes of Christ telling his disciples in John 6:25-70 that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood if they are to have any life in them. They'll probably tell you that Christ was just being metaphorical. But then why did all of his disciples walk off in disgust without Christ calling after them, "But I was just being metaphorical!"? There is another curious connection to this in 1 Cor 9:17-30 where St. Paul is telling the Corinthians that many among them are sick and have died because they have not discerned the Body and Blood of Christ when they have come together for the Lord's Supper. This IS NOT just a metaphor!
Umm... yeah, actualy it is a metaphor, and its pretty clear, as in no sane human could possibly argue otherwise if they have a clue what they are talking about.
Lets look at some verses:
First the verse you list where Jesus uses his body and blood as a metaphor for his death and resurection. Any one reading it knows he is using it as a metaphor, so read it for yourself here
And the verse that makes it clear if you still have trouble with the first one.
Luke 22:19-20
And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."
It is a metaphor to him being the food of life, nurturing and feeding our souls, and of his death on the cross where his blood payed for our sins.
If (as most Bible scholars believe) this was written during the Babylonian captivity
I don't know of a single biblical scholar who believes that, I doubt you could find even one with any credibility.
No our best weapon since WW2 has been the fact that we were the only ones who stood between Europe and Soviet Comunist expansion. And even then Europe did was publicly very critical of most of the things we did. And no, choosing the "high ethical standard" is for the most part worth crap in international politics. It is the appearance of ethics that matters. Because thats as far as most people pay attention anyway. And in most cases they can fit the facts to meet there preconcived conceptions, without having to ignore or change them too much. And in this case the US is doing what is feels is the moral thing. We have liberated a nation from a brutal dictator.
There is no advantage at all to having the moral high ground. There would be no fight at all if both sides agreed on the moral high gound and cared about it.
You answered your own question there, yep, they still need a subpoena, same as before, some rules were changed to make it easier to get subpoenas, and stuff like that. It was mostly an administrative fine tuning bill to take alot of red tape out of the way. As for the parts that were ruled unconstitutional, I'm not going to do your research for you if you can't be bothered to do a simple search for "patriot act unconstitutional" on google.
Your still arguing against a straw man of your own creation rather than reading what I am actualy saying.
And yes pleanty of Americans are racist and intolerant, it is a trait that is universal to all human societies and unfortunately one that will likely never go away, but what exactly is your point?
In your example above, perhaps the murderer might know you.... and if you asked him to stop, or stood in between him and his potential victim, he might stop attacking out of respect for you. If, on the other hand, he thinks you're scum, your words are useless, and if you try to intervene you'll probably get the pointy end yourself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I reread that 5 or 6 times, and I'm still shocked. I can't believe someone could possibly be so nieve as to not just believe that tripe, but believe it so much as to post it online in an attempt to win an argument. Wow. I would try to argue but as it apears you are living in a differnt reality from mine my words will probably be wasted.
Your right it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but it wasn't "a rung or two above a concentration camp" or even close. To even suggest so is rather insulting to all the people who have suffered through concentration camps. Yes people died there, people die all the time, in all kinds of places, it's something that happens to humans. The only reason you would bring it up is to suggest that they were "murdered by the evil Americans" regardless of the fact that its just not true.
As for Europe and The Middle East not hating us, thats just rediculus. I'll take Europe first because the two are as different as night and day. So Europe was simpathetic for the most part for a while after 9-11 as anyone would be after such event. And then they gave a few token gestures for a while longer as not to look insensitive too soon. That doesn't change the fact that for DECADES Europe has disliked the US. Go back and look at new coverage of all the trips Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton took to Europe, just change the name of the president and the issues being protested and they are no different that those about the visits from Bush II. Europe always has some reason to hate the US and I'm sure they will always be able to find some reason, lifes easier when you can blame someone else for you problems. As for the Middle East, What!?!? You can't seriously predend that there is anything but contempt for the US in much of it. Sure there are some countries, namely Isreal and Kuwait being good examples that don't but Syria? You have to be joking, Syria barely made it off the Axis of Evil list only because they realy lack the ability to do much of anything. Syria has been a major sponsor of terorists for a long time, just look at whats going on with there occupation of Lebanon right now. Egypt is an ally only as far as the money paying for there millitary. Over all though the Middle East is far more complex than just a simple they hate us or don't and there are alot of differnt feelings and motivations in the region. But the only thing that is for sure is that the invasion of Iraq is not the reason for anger in the Middle East, it's a reason for those who already didn't like us, but thats about it, and once again, they can and will find pleanty of reasons.
As for the Patriot Act, it has nothing to do with spying, and doesn't affect anyone outside the US. If your refering to the enemy combatant detention and torture at Guantanamo that could be an entirely new discution. And your going to have to clarify just what you mean by "extralegal rendition".
The Tenth isn't at all vague. It is very simple in what it says, and that is, "unless they constitution gives the federal government the right to do something, or denys the states the right, it is a right reserved for the states or the people." And since the constitution doesn't give the federal government the power to set up any Social Security, Medicare, or alot of other things the federal government does. Of course they can find truely vague loopholes to let them get away with just about anything as long as we have a supreme court that will let them get away with it.
As for the Patriot act, those parts of the patriot act that abused the rights granted under the constitution were ruled unconstitutional by the courts along time ago. Second, there is realy no mention of privacy or any right to it in the constitution, all those rights have been set by court ruling. But the Patriot act doesn't have anything to do with privacy, so I'm not sure why you would bring that up.
I'll let them give themselves the moral athority, but I'm not sure where your questions came from.
Not realy suprised, most people also skip the Tenth Ammendment as well. And all the controversial parts of the Patriot act have expiration dates.
First off there were no "American concentration camps" your a loon if you thing other wise. There were however "internment camps" and yes there is a very large difference. See people were not sent to internment camps to perform slave labor under poor living conditions with little food till they died or were just killed anyway. Yes they were a horible experience for those who went through it, but no where near anything experienced in a concentration camp. Second, the US has been hated by europe and the middle east for decades, this is nothing new, and in 10 years they will have new reasons to hate us, it's just what they do. And to suggest that they had anything but contempt for us before Bush II and the war on terror is also silly and very uninformed.
Well, everyone seems to accept Social Security, Medicare, Campain Finance reform, and a whole slew of other laws that are flagrantly unconstitutional, as long as they support the ideas behind them. I realy wish those of you on the left would care about the constitution when it came to all the socialist issues that the federal government is trying to push. And don't think I'm defending the patriot act, but I definately don't view it as the end of the world, or even close. The courts have already wiped the worst parts of the law, and I don'see there being enough support in congress to push it through again. This country has survived far worse in terms of government abuse (you did study US history right?) and I see no reason to suggest we won't survive this as well.
Doesn't matter, because the other standard isn't being pushed by a government, but by a group whos members are large international corperations who care more about making money than producing crapy standards so they can spy on people.
Businesses have been leaving California for years. In fact it was a big enough problem that it was one of the Governators biggest campain pledges last year, to reverse many of the stupid taxes that you support because they didn't increase revenue, they just encouraged people to leave. Compared to California, all the surrounding states are bargain states, especialy Navada.
While this post was modded funny, its realy sad how true it is. I though Oregon was screwed up before I moved here. Its been two years, and I'm still regularly finding new examples of just how out of touch with reality the legeslators in Sacramento are. This push to control and monitor every little aspect of the peoples lives has been going on for a long time here.
I'm far more curious how the GP rationalized turning a post about how the governments of Oregon and California proposed GPS for cars in to a rant on Bush and Cheney's drinking back in the 70's.
"A Republic will survive up until the point where its representatives find they can bribe the voters with there own money"
I'm realy curious where you are going to school. I haven't had a single profesor anything like that. I could show up half way through class and they wouldn't care at all. Of cource I'm in California, not the midwest, but I just have a hard time believing that it could be that different.
Never had hatred for anyone?