I think we are past the point of needing to use nukes or physicaly invadeing a whole country to get one guy/group. We have a hell of a lot of backing for whatever we decide to do. (like demanding Bin Laden) If that happens, Afghanistan would be making a big mistake to hamper those efforts. If they did, tactical strikes and specific landings would make the needed impact.
Using a nuke would be shooting ourselves in the foot.
I think Osama already has enough aginst him to warrent his death. Many would also contest to that based on his past actions. He is also on our 10 most wanted list.
If you don't want to see news about things that don't interest you at the moment, glance over the topic and _just_ skip over it. This site is not just about the bad event that happened.
Personaly my main focus is still in the event.
The intent in the past was to level the building. They figured out a better way than a car bomb in the strongest section of the building. Things went as they planned (I assume) and they got a big bang for their buck.
Their level of planning could have required a lot of work by bright people, or they could have just gotten lucky on this try. It will take all the facts to figure that out. Its the first time something this big has happened in this way, they did something new that worked. Its not some specialy developed technology that allowed this to happen for them, but that was not needed anyway.
From the events, it seems like they did most of what they wanted to do. Now its our turn to do what we want to do. Hopefully we are specific in who aginst and how we do it.
its lagged all over the place (HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy), tried to send the url to this thread, I'd assume they have the resources to be far ahead of us anyway.
I don't think that "sollog", or the owner of the domain is the same guy, I think the guy in question from the usenet posting is just a fan. I could be wrong.
I've been poking around a bit, and have found the below, no idea if anything is valid. Assume its not.
Xinoehpoel/LeoPheonix
Listed as tesnal@lsp.moc
lanset@lsp.com or tesnal@lsp.com ?
seems to be connected to:
http://sollog.b0x.com/
63-175-38-247-modem.o1.com
during the date below:
24-Jun-2001 08:18:28 GMT
for him it is 1:45:44 on 24/6/2001 during the above time
(you do the conversion:)
Easy enough to get this info, wouldent mind a gov job, just don't stick me in a high profile building.
Am I the only one who is mortally afraid of living in a country/world where it is against the law to test and announce security flaws? Won't this not only limit the improvement of security and give people who first learn about a security vulnerability to exploit it to its fullest extent? Especially if the maker of the product does not feel forced to fix it when notified? (We all know cases where big corporations need a big push to spend money to fix a problem)
I would think that people who support these types of laws would fall under this list:
Companies (trying to save money and image at cost of quality)
People getting paid by big companies (bureaucrats + lobbyists)
Ignorant administrators (thinking it would help protect their insecure boxes from their lack of skills and attentiveness)
Ignorant masses
Its ignorant to think that because he worked for a company in another country that sold the product... that he should be given punishment because of their actions. I suppose if you looked into this subject at all before giving your opinion that it would have actually had facts and you would not have mentioned Skylarov as having "made a product and distributed it for sale"
Hopefully that should clear up one of your problems that you mentioned.
Because of the frustration of not being able to just uninstall the ad/spyware from Aureate/Radiate that installed with gozilla or another application, I fired off an email to them. On a good note, I at least got one response from them, more than I expected, reguardless of facts.
Also, the program "Adaware" fixed me right up. www.lavasoftUSA.com
--- My Original Email:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: ads
You make a virus, its as simple as that.
Since this was installed without my permission, with another program, I'm now more aware of this type of privacy abuse and will take measures to make sure this is the last time that this type of program ever is allowed to infect my systems.
[name]
--- Their Reply
[name],
I do understand your concern, but please do be aware that what you are seeing is actually communication that is part of the program you installed that displays ads. It is not a seperate program, but is part of the code of the software you installed. While you can certainly uninstall the ad-supported software program, simply removing the advertising component will likely cause the program to stop working, or at the very least would be software piracy.
In most cases, you can purchase a version of the program without ads for a fee (while the free version is supported by ads), which you can do if you are concerned about the advertising traffic. If you can tell me what program it was that you installed that is advertising supported, I may be able to help direct you to an ad-free registered version, or let you know if one does not exist.
Sincerely,
Jeff
--- My last reply:
The included uninstall was unable to remove it. Other files were still left modified. If working under the assumption that its not a good idea to trust another program from the same source I did not use the remove program located deep in the web site. (a manual list of instructions would have been helpful however). I did find a 3rd party utility that worked wonders for me.
I only liken it to a virus in its ability to transparently piggy back in on another application (it does not seem to be part of a single adware program as much as a second integrated program) and its level of hidden folders, location of files and difficulty to remove. While I was removing the program, msipcsv.exe attempted to use as much as the cpu as it could, this was after the uninstall program was ran. (I hate to mention it but I would have to cite the Class Action Law Suit for support)
I have no problems what so ever with applications that contain an ad at the top, like the opera browser, and I don't mind if it tracks how much time its shown and if I click on the ad or not, but all other levels of integration into my system (especially if it runs independently of the application) will determine if I use a program or not.
I tried gozilla over the period of a day and had since disabled it, while this program continued to run independent of any other program a week later. Gozilla has since been uninstalled and I couldn't see myself paying to remove a function that shouldn't exist in its current state anyway.
Slashdot Mirror
I think we are past the point of needing to use nukes or physicaly invadeing a whole country to get one guy/group. We have a hell of a lot of backing for whatever we decide to do. (like demanding Bin Laden) If that happens, Afghanistan would be making a big mistake to hamper those efforts. If they did, tactical strikes and specific landings would make the needed impact.
Using a nuke would be shooting ourselves in the foot.
I think Osama already has enough aginst him to warrent his death. Many would also contest to that based on his past actions. He is also on our 10 most wanted list.
If you don't want to see news about things that don't interest you at the moment, glance over the topic and _just_ skip over it. This site is not just about the bad event that happened.
Personaly my main focus is still in the event.
The intent in the past was to level the building. They figured out a better way than a car bomb in the strongest section of the building. Things went as they planned (I assume) and they got a big bang for their buck.
Their level of planning could have required a lot of work by bright people, or they could have just gotten lucky on this try. It will take all the facts to figure that out. Its the first time something this big has happened in this way, they did something new that worked. Its not some specialy developed technology that allowed this to happen for them, but that was not needed anyway.
From the events, it seems like they did most of what they wanted to do. Now its our turn to do what we want to do. Hopefully we are specific in who aginst and how we do it.
its lagged all over the place (HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy), tried to send the url to this thread, I'd assume they have the resources to be far ahead of us anyway.
Thats just what _THEY_ want you to think :P
I don't think that "sollog", or the owner of the domain is the same guy, I think the guy in question from the usenet posting is just a fan. I could be wrong.
I've been poking around a bit, and have found the below, no idea if anything is valid. Assume its not.
:)
Xinoehpoel/LeoPheonix
Listed as tesnal@lsp.moc
lanset@lsp.com or tesnal@lsp.com ?
seems to be connected to:
http://sollog.b0x.com/
63-175-38-247-modem.o1.com
during the date below:
24-Jun-2001 08:18:28 GMT
for him it is 1:45:44 on 24/6/2001 during the above time
(you do the conversion
Easy enough to get this info, wouldent mind a gov job, just don't stick me in a high profile building.
Well I feel safer....
Am I the only one who is mortally afraid of living in a country/world where it is against the law to test and announce security flaws? Won't this not only limit the improvement of security and give people who first learn about a security vulnerability to exploit it to its fullest extent? Especially if the maker of the product does not feel forced to fix it when notified? (We all know cases where big corporations need a big push to spend money to fix a problem)
I would think that people who support these types of laws would fall under this list:
Companies (trying to save money and image at cost of quality)
People getting paid by big companies (bureaucrats + lobbyists)
Ignorant administrators (thinking it would help protect their insecure boxes from their lack of skills and attentiveness)
Ignorant masses
What else?
Sorry but I have to say this....
Its ignorant to think that because he worked for a company in another country that sold the product... that he should be given punishment because of their actions. I suppose if you looked into this subject at all before giving your opinion that it would have actually had facts and you would not have mentioned Skylarov as having "made a product and distributed it for sale"
Hopefully that should clear up one of your problems that you mentioned.
I won't even mention the analogy.
Because of the frustration of not being able to just uninstall the ad/spyware from Aureate/Radiate that installed with gozilla or another application, I fired off an email to them. On a good note, I at least got one response from them, more than I expected, reguardless of facts.
Also, the program "Adaware" fixed me right up. www.lavasoftUSA.com
--- My Original Email:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: ads
You make a virus, its as simple as that.
Since this was installed without my permission, with another program, I'm now more aware of this type of privacy abuse and will take measures to make sure this is the last time that this type of program ever is allowed to infect my systems.
[name]
--- Their Reply
[name],
I do understand your concern, but please do be aware that what you are seeing is actually communication that is part of the program you installed that displays ads. It is not a seperate program, but is part of the code of the software you installed. While you can certainly uninstall the ad-supported software program, simply removing the advertising component will likely cause the program to stop working, or at the very least would be software piracy.
In most cases, you can purchase a version of the program without ads for a fee (while the free version is supported by ads), which you can do if you are concerned about the advertising traffic. If you can tell me what program it was that you installed that is advertising supported, I may be able to help direct you to an ad-free registered version, or let you know if one does not exist.
Sincerely,
Jeff
--- My last reply:
The included uninstall was unable to remove it. Other files were still left modified. If working under the assumption that its not a good idea to trust another program from the same source I did not use the remove program located deep in the web site. (a manual list of instructions would have been helpful however). I did find a 3rd party utility that worked wonders for me.
I only liken it to a virus in its ability to transparently piggy back in on another application (it does not seem to be part of a single adware program as much as a second integrated program) and its level of hidden folders, location of files and difficulty to remove. While I was removing the program, msipcsv.exe attempted to use as much as the cpu as it could, this was after the uninstall program was ran. (I hate to mention it but I would have to cite the Class Action Law Suit for support)
I have no problems what so ever with applications that contain an ad at the top, like the opera browser, and I don't mind if it tracks how much time its shown and if I click on the ad or not, but all other levels of integration into my system (especially if it runs independently of the application) will determine if I use a program or not.
I tried gozilla over the period of a day and had since disabled it, while this program continued to run independent of any other program a week later. Gozilla has since been uninstalled and I couldn't see myself paying to remove a function that shouldn't exist in its current state anyway.
[name]
15 million uninstalled it twice, the other 3 million just reformated.