If anyone buys a laptop, running a G3, with 8MB vram and think it will run the same as a desktop Mac... what are you smoking? Did you think it would magically grow into something bigger?
You trade off performance for portability.
My G4 is only a year old, but I'll have to update the Rage 128 Pro in order to get Quartz Extreme to work.
I think I'll just wait until July and pick up a left over;-)
I support a large number of Mac people, and they just aren't moving to OS X
Those people are just stupid! This would be like people who insists on still using Quark 3 and Illustrator 6! Or still using System 6... or Windows 3.11. They cant play with everyone....
My ten year old son has no problem using OS X... he didn't even have to figure it out (he has 9.1 on his PowerComputing clone).
No, generally, I don't. News is now conveniently available on-line, and all the other stuff is just packaging. Fancy packaging generally suggests a lack of good content to me, and publishers would be better off keeping things simple as far as I'm concerned.
Guess you don't read books then either huh? That's pretty dull, if you ask me. Not everything is news, and you usually can't get all the content online. My point was that everything you see around you that is printed probably made it's way past one of these programs (and was most likely created on a Mac too)! I think most people would object if everything looked like it came from a typewriter.
Fancy packaging is all part of the presentation, just like eating at a nice restaurant vs. Burger King.
Good design is art. There is more to life than the bare essentials.
QuarkXPress has always used non-standard controls; even version 4 (not sure about 5) used a faked/hacked System 7 scroll bar appearance even on OS 8/9. It seemed to me that there were so many aspects of the program like this that "carbonizing" it would actually require significant rewriting, unlike most apps that used standard toolbox routines.
Exactly! This is why they don't have an OS X version yet, and they are blaming it on Apple!
Quark has basically been a hack of a program all these years.
We haven't upgraded to 5 yet here at work, but I did use the public beta version, and yes, they finally updated Quark to look like System 8! I bet the widgets use some hard coded WDEFs instead of the Mac Toolbox though! They say the next version will run on OS X... in another three years maybe?
The success of the package is pretty much accidental. It was originally written as a word processor for the (hopelessly unsuccessful) Apple///.
Close. Quark wrote MacWrite Pro, which was a word processor, for the first Macintosh. XPress was never a word processor and didn't run on an Apple///. XPress came out much later, after Aldus Pagemaker.
Ironically, since Quark knows how to write word processors, you would think they could make importing MS Word files work properly!
Plus it took them until version 5 to get table support in XPress.
What's all that stuff good for? Almost all printed matter that I come across that is actually worth reading is black-and-white, has a simple layout, simple fonts, and simple typesetting.
You never read magazines? Or even newspapers? How about that box of cookies? The package your latest computer game came in? Music CDs?
All that stuff was done using this type of gear, and probably done in Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, et al. Even that simple stuff.
Yeah, I work in the industry too...
Getting back to the Quark discussion, they have always had contempt for anyone but them selves. The CEO once said all their customers were crooks! I use the program everyday. I think it's a great program, BUT it's still riddled with bugs, and the fact that they didn't do an OS X version is just crazy. Anything they say is just an excuse to cover their ass. At home I run OS X 99% of the time, only booting into 9.2.2 to run Cubase VST. I use InDesign 2.0 now, and it's a great program. I don't miss Quark at all.
At work we are still using 9.1 and Quark... but that will change at some point.
"Tests conducted by Wired News confirmed reader complaints that a new 800 MHz iMac takes an average of twice as long to render Web pages as a comparable or cheaper PC running Windows XP."
That's IE for you... it sits and grinds for a time, all while pegging the CPU. This is MS's way to get more speed? Of course on Windows the HTML rendering is built into the OS. OS X had more HTML rendering support in the Public Beta, but they removed most of that, because they felt it wasn't up to par.
I've been using Mozilla since the 0.9.9 build, and I really like it. IE has some very nice features, but Mozilla feels much faster to me.
I'll admit that browsers feel faster on PCs, but I don't think it's OS X as much as the browsers. Photoshop for example, runs faster in X than 9 on my machine.:)
Bought a 500mhz iBook2 mostly on the promise of OSX and its BSD base. Even with 320 megs RAM, OSX is basically unusable. Browsing is worthless. Mozilla (I need that tabbed browsing) runs like a dog. Even opening shell windows takes longer than it should.
I think something is wrong with your install. Wipe the drive clean and start over! I've used OS X on an iBook and it was not that slow. Mozilla is very fast on my 466MHz G4. I never get the spinning disk either.
I have a G4/466 with 896 MB and the stock Rage 128 Pro card. I'm running OS X 10.1.4. Sure, it's not as fast as Mac OS 9.2.2 on the same machine, but I prefer running in OS X.
It's not that much slower, and for some reason it just feels smoother. Plus with the multi tasking I can launch four apps at once and dont have to wait! And ZERO crashes,
Apple will get the speed up in time, just as they did with OS 8 and 9.
I dont find any speed problems web browsing using either Mozilla 1.0 or IE 5.1.
Is your G4 a 100mhz fsb version or a 133mhz fsb version
All but the first two G4s (the Yikes!, which was a G3 MB and the Sawtooth both had 100 MHz busses) have 133 MHz system busses and use PC133 RAM. I have a "Digital Audio" G4, with a 133 MHz bus. It wont run on PC100 no matter what the cas rating is. Some chips from dealers are mislabeled also and this is where the firmware problems arose. The firmware was catching PC100 RAM labeled as 133.
I know about hardware, do you think because I use Macs I haven't had any experience building computers? I rebuild Macs and PCs all the time. I have 12 Macs and several PCs I built. Not every one has the bargan basement mentality that a lot of PC users have. Sometimes cheap is just junk.
Also you are over simplifying the RAM issues, and RAM is not always interchangeable. The Apple firmware update only disabled RAM that was not up to spec. Some of this RAM could be reprogramed to spec, but did not leave the factory that way. Apple doesn't expect people to buy memory from them, they only expect people to use qualified parts. I always buy the cheapest memory I can find and never have any problems. But I dont buy junk either. There is a difference. I also don't try to put PC100 DIMMs in where it calls for PC133. What's the point? Some memory controllers are fussier than others. Try and put out-of-spec RAM in a SUN or SGI for instance!
Of course you can always disable the memory check at startup that disables your ram.. but only if it will boot at all (you didn't replace *all* your ram with inexpencive aftermarket stuff did you?) and you know the secret hotkey decoder ring handshake to press and hold while opening the memory control panel.
Actually my "inexpencive aftermarket" [sic] $49 512 MB PC133 RAM works just fine in my G4 with all the latest firmware updates.
If his apps run natively in OS X, then they are using the Carbon API. Unless he suddenly stopped using all of mis Macintosh Applications and switched to NeXT applications which were ported to Cocoa. Carbon is a clarified Mac OS API, which runs equally well between Mac OS X and Mac OS classic (as long as you have CarbonLib installed. Almost all Mac OS 8.5 and above have this, it's a free download for 8.1).
Have you tried your Ofice X on Mac OS 9?
This is not exactly true. Carbon apps can be made to run in both OS X and OS 9, or made to only run in OS X.
MS Office v. X is carbon and does not run in OS 9.
The real solution, albeit a bit awkward, is to press the preview button on the print dialog, and save the file as a PDF file, then print from the classic version of Acrobat Reader. This is what I had to do before Epson released the drivers for my Stylus Photo 870.
My computer is a tool, not a piece of furniture. If i want something pretty, i'll buy a vase. If i need to get a report done or do some graphic layout, I want something that does the fucking job.
So you can't have both? Do you own any hand tools? I'm a wood worker, and I buy the best tools I can afford. Really nice tools usually look nice too.
Macs offer pleasing aesthetics while also getting the job done, usually in a much more timely fashion.
I wont even comment on the part about downloading extensions, because clearly you don't have a clue!
If you think Jaguar makes high quality vehichles, "small brain syndrome" more accurately describes you.
And I suppose Anonymous Coward best describes you? You are referring to the fact that they were always very unreliable cars. Let's call them tempermental. They weren't any worse than any English cars, like MG and Lotus. And this is based on all the Jags you have owned right?;-) You can substitute any high-end car brand, OK?
Actually Jags have gotten quite reliable ever since they were bought by you-know-who.
Personally I drive a BMW, which is not as sexy as the new Jags.
convince people that its OK for your computer to lock up 5 times a day, because it has a smiley face and a translucent mouse.
This is nonsense! I run several Macs all day here at work, 2 G4s (a 400 MHz and a dual 500) and an older PowerMac 7500 with G3 upgrade card. We are running Mac OS 9.1 on all three. They are on 40+ hours a week.
Sorry to inform you, but they don't lock up 5 times a day, or even 5 times a week. I have a crash maybe once a month, and that's with Quark, Photoshop, Illustrator, Word, AOL, MSIE and a bunch of other stuff open.
that argument was good about ten years ago with System 7.5!
My G4 at home running OS X has not crashed once sinch I got it last March.
So what you're saying is that you like Macs because you get the attention that you crave? That's pathetic! If you buy products to feel better about yourself, it's not that there's anything right with the product, it's more like there's wrong with you.
That's just flawed logic, twisted to your own ends. I think the real point would be like what if you drove a really nice car, say a Jaguar.
Why did you buy that car? For the attention? Or because it's a very high quality auto, and you appreciate fine things?
Let us assume it was the latter, because clearly some people drive expensive cars to show off. You will from time to time have people admiring your car, but after all, you are not your car, but it is a reflection of your good taste, and of who you are in a way. We say "thank you" when someone complements our clothes for example. We (probably) didn't design and make those clothes, but we did choose them.
Or say you are a musician (like me), you know the difference between the $3,000 custom made Alembic bass, and the $150 Squire bass. You don't buy the expensive one to show off, you buy it because you know it's a better designed and built product, will be easier to play, and will probably need less maintenance... and you appreciate its fine sense of aesthetics and detail. You like the way it sounds, and you like the style. You might even like that not that many people have one. All these are valid points. This is why I started building my own guitars, because I knew what I liked and didn't like, and also because I wanted something different than what everyone else has. Afterall this is why we customize things.
This is why I use a Mac. I like the way they look, I like using the OS, and I appreciate the quality that goes into them. And I dont mind paying a little more and I dont mind that not every one uses them. I don't care what other people use. I also use PCs, I think any flavor of Windows is just ugly. I like Linux, but find OS X more polished. Also in my line of work (desktop publishing/graphic design) this is what we use. Period.
No one needs to validate their choices. If you like something, buy it.
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Yep. There is no excuse. Look at Quark... they are the only one with no OS X version, and now OS 9 is being put to rest.
Steinberg has an OS X version of Cubase SX coming out (which is the music program I use) so I guess some companies are on the ball!
It's not at all slow on my year old 466 G4.
The two key items you need are a G4, not a G3, and a truck load of RAM.
You trade off performance for portability.
My G4 is only a year old, but I'll have to update the Rage 128 Pro in order to get Quartz Extreme to work.
I think I'll just wait until July and pick up a left over ;-)
Those people are just stupid! This would be like people who insists on still using Quark 3 and Illustrator 6! Or still using System 6... or Windows 3.11. They cant play with everyone....
My ten year old son has no problem using OS X... he didn't even have to figure it out (he has 9.1 on his PowerComputing clone).
You get the OS for free so what's your point? It's not adding a cent to your price. Do you even have a point besides the one of the top of your head?
Just wipe the hard drive clean and there you go...
But the real reason Mac users use Macs is for the OS
They do make AppleWorks for Windows...
Guess you don't read books then either huh? That's pretty dull, if you ask me. Not everything is news, and you usually can't get all the content online. My point was that everything you see around you that is printed probably made it's way past one of these programs (and was most likely created on a Mac too)! I think most people would object if everything looked like it came from a typewriter.
Fancy packaging is all part of the presentation, just like eating at a nice restaurant vs. Burger King.
Good design is art. There is more to life than the bare essentials.
Exactly! This is why they don't have an OS X version yet, and they are blaming it on Apple!
Quark has basically been a hack of a program all these years.
We haven't upgraded to 5 yet here at work, but I did use the public beta version, and yes, they finally updated Quark to look like System 8! I bet the widgets use some hard coded WDEFs instead of the Mac Toolbox though! They say the next version will run on OS X... in another three years maybe?
Close. Quark wrote MacWrite Pro, which was a word processor, for the first Macintosh. XPress was never a word processor and didn't run on an Apple ///. XPress came out much later, after Aldus Pagemaker.
Ironically, since Quark knows how to write word processors, you would think they could make importing MS Word files work properly!
Plus it took them until version 5 to get table support in XPress.
You never read magazines? Or even newspapers? How about that box of cookies? The package your latest computer game came in? Music CDs?
All that stuff was done using this type of gear, and probably done in Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, et al. Even that simple stuff.
Yeah, I work in the industry too...
Getting back to the Quark discussion, they have always had contempt for anyone but them selves. The CEO once said all their customers were crooks! I use the program everyday. I think it's a great program, BUT it's still riddled with bugs, and the fact that they didn't do an OS X version is just crazy. Anything they say is just an excuse to cover their ass. At home I run OS X 99% of the time, only booting into 9.2.2 to run Cubase VST. I use InDesign 2.0 now, and it's a great program. I don't miss Quark at all.
At work we are still using 9.1 and Quark ... but that will change at some point.
That's IE for you... it sits and grinds for a time, all while pegging the CPU. This is MS's way to get more speed? Of course on Windows the HTML rendering is built into the OS. OS X had more HTML rendering support in the Public Beta, but they removed most of that, because they felt it wasn't up to par.
I've been using Mozilla since the 0.9.9 build, and I really like it. IE has some very nice features, but Mozilla feels much faster to me.
I'll admit that browsers feel faster on PCs, but I don't think it's OS X as much as the browsers. Photoshop for example, runs faster in X than 9 on my machine. :)
I think something is wrong with your install. Wipe the drive clean and start over! I've used OS X on an iBook and it was not that slow. Mozilla is very fast on my 466MHz G4. I never get the spinning disk either.
It's not that much slower, and for some reason it just feels smoother. Plus with the multi tasking I can launch four apps at once and dont have to wait! And ZERO crashes,
Apple will get the speed up in time, just as they did with OS 8 and 9.
I dont find any speed problems web browsing using either Mozilla 1.0 or IE 5.1.
I think because IE is carbon, and not cocoa?
All but the first two G4s (the Yikes!, which was a G3 MB and the Sawtooth both had 100 MHz busses) have 133 MHz system busses and use PC133 RAM. I have a "Digital Audio" G4, with a 133 MHz bus. It wont run on PC100 no matter what the cas rating is. Some chips from dealers are mislabeled also and this is where the firmware problems arose. The firmware was catching PC100 RAM labeled as 133.
I know about hardware, do you think because I use Macs I haven't had any experience building computers? I rebuild Macs and PCs all the time. I have 12 Macs and several PCs I built. Not every one has the bargan basement mentality that a lot of PC users have. Sometimes cheap is just junk.
Also you are over simplifying the RAM issues, and RAM is not always interchangeable. The Apple firmware update only disabled RAM that was not up to spec. Some of this RAM could be reprogramed to spec, but did not leave the factory that way. Apple doesn't expect people to buy memory from them, they only expect people to use qualified parts. I always buy the cheapest memory I can find and never have any problems. But I dont buy junk either. There is a difference. I also don't try to put PC100 DIMMs in where it calls for PC133. What's the point? Some memory controllers are fussier than others. Try and put out-of-spec RAM in a SUN or SGI for instance!
Regardless, Tesla demonstrated floresent light tubes lit by induction powered from one of his big towers, like the one he was building in NY.
Tesla did that already!
Actually my "inexpencive aftermarket" [sic] $49 512 MB PC133 RAM works just fine in my G4 with all the latest firmware updates.
And your point was?
NEXT! ;-)
Because that side is heavier...
Have you tried your Ofice X on Mac OS 9?
This is not exactly true. Carbon apps can be made to run in both OS X and OS 9, or made to only run in OS X.
MS Office v. X is carbon and does not run in OS 9.
The real solution, albeit a bit awkward, is to press the preview button on the print dialog, and save the file as a PDF file, then print from the classic version of Acrobat Reader. This is what I had to do before Epson released the drivers for my Stylus Photo 870.
So you can't have both? Do you own any hand tools? I'm a wood worker, and I buy the best tools I can afford. Really nice tools usually look nice too.
Macs offer pleasing aesthetics while also getting the job done, usually in a much more timely fashion.
I wont even comment on the part about downloading extensions, because clearly you don't have a clue!
And I suppose Anonymous Coward best describes you? You are referring to the fact that they were always very unreliable cars. Let's call them tempermental. They weren't any worse than any English cars, like MG and Lotus. And this is based on all the Jags you have owned right? ;-) You can substitute any high-end car brand, OK?
Actually Jags have gotten quite reliable ever since they were bought by you-know-who.
Personally I drive a BMW, which is not as sexy as the new Jags.
This is nonsense! I run several Macs all day here at work, 2 G4s (a 400 MHz and a dual 500) and an older PowerMac 7500 with G3 upgrade card. We are running Mac OS 9.1 on all three. They are on 40+ hours a week.
Sorry to inform you, but they don't lock up 5 times a day, or even 5 times a week. I have a crash maybe once a month, and that's with Quark, Photoshop, Illustrator, Word, AOL, MSIE and a bunch of other stuff open.
that argument was good about ten years ago with System 7.5!
My G4 at home running OS X has not crashed once sinch I got it last March.
That's just flawed logic, twisted to your own ends. I think the real point would be like what if you drove a really nice car, say a Jaguar.
Why did you buy that car? For the attention? Or because it's a very high quality auto, and you appreciate fine things?
Let us assume it was the latter, because clearly some people drive expensive cars to show off. You will from time to time have people admiring your car, but after all, you are not your car, but it is a reflection of your good taste, and of who you are in a way. We say "thank you" when someone complements our clothes for example. We (probably) didn't design and make those clothes, but we did choose them.
Or say you are a musician (like me), you know the difference between the $3,000 custom made Alembic bass, and the $150 Squire bass. You don't buy the expensive one to show off, you buy it because you know it's a better designed and built product, will be easier to play, and will probably need less maintenance ... and you appreciate its fine sense of aesthetics and detail. You like the way it sounds, and you like the style. You might even like that not that many people have one. All these are valid points. This is why I started building my own guitars, because I knew what I liked and didn't like, and also because I wanted something different than what everyone else has. Afterall this is why we customize things.
This is why I use a Mac. I like the way they look, I like using the OS, and I appreciate the quality that goes into them. And I dont mind paying a little more and I dont mind that not every one uses them. I don't care what other people use. I also use PCs, I think any flavor of Windows is just ugly. I like Linux, but find OS X more polished. Also in my line of work (desktop publishing/graphic design) this is what we use. Period.
No one needs to validate their choices. If you like something, buy it.
And yes, I was a former PC user.