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Apple Drops Mac OS 9
Eugenia Loli writes "MacCentral has the up-to-the-minute updates on the Apple WorldWide Developer Conference. The first big news is that Apple drops Mac OS 9. 'It's time to drop OS 9,' Steve Jobs said. 'We can do things in X that we just can't do in 9... a hundred percent of what we're doing is X only. [...] Mac OS 9 isn't dead for our customers, but it is for developers. Today we say goodbye to Mac OS 9 for all future development,' said Jobs." We all expected this to happen sooner or later, more sooner than later. There's been no new Apple development for Mac OS 9 in some time; only maintenance updates. But I won't stop Mac OS 9 development. You can't stop me! Muahahahaha! Update: 05/06 18:31 GMT by P : More news from WWDC continues to roll in.
Eugenia Loli writes "Probably the really big news is with Jaguar, the codename for Mac OS X 10.2. There is handwriting recognition technology that will be recognized by any application that uses text. Apple also introduced Quartz Extreme, which takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards, and combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. 'Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL.' It requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM. It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of 'the other guys.'"
Update: 05/06 18:46 GMT by P : An anonymous user writes: "Apple is releasing Mac OS X Rackmount Servers. Also releasing AIM-compatible messaging called iChat; you can create buddy lists of anyone on the local network, and you can use your mac.com username to log in to it."
About time.
That sucks, OS 9 was the greatest OS apple released ever, so much faster then the slow ass OS X, plus the GUI was better, no stupid Dock, It sure will be missed by me....
Rendezvous. Dynamic IP discovery. Lets computers "dynamically discover each other and share them." Proposing as a new industry standard. Jobs cited example of multiple Macs working at home sharing MP3 files with iTunes between multiple computers. Demonstrated example of MP3 files streaming over AirPort. Works with any IP-ready device; built into Jaguar and will also be offered as an open industry standard that can be built into specific devices.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
I for one am glad - both as a developer having to support to highly divergent platforms, and as a unix head who's had to work with the classic OS. I like OS X. It's unix (almost) my mom could use. There's a lot to be said for that.
\Drew National Data Director, John Edwards for President
Two more news from MacWorld:
Inkwell: Handwriting recognition technology. Recognized by any application that uses text, even basic UNIX applications like Terminal.
Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM. It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. AGP 2x and 32MB video RAM are required for this new technology. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of "the other guys."
It is funny if you think that Apple STILL SELLS the Classic iMacs for $1000, that only have 16 MB of graphics RAM.
This is a really bad idea for Apple. I support a large number of Mac people, and they just aren't moving to OS X. They're buying imacs and asking me how to boot it to OS 9 by default. Apple, once again, shooting themselves in the foot.
Open source means never having to say thank you.
So when are they going to start supporting DOS?
A new macintosh purchased just two years ago is now out of style. Thanks, Steve.
This makes huge sense for Apple: their future is Mac OS X and the company has been saying this for some time. I'm glad they are making the cut now, still relatively early in the new OS's life cycle. This will help push developers onto the new platform; in turn this is good for end users because the applications they need to run are more likely to appear on Mac OS X.
And again it shows that Apple are able to make gutsey decisions and lead the market rather than follow it. Whatever you think of the relative merits of X vs. 9, this is the kind of bleeding-edge decision making that Apple needs if it is to differentiate itself from the Windows platform.
Sailing over the event horizon
Now how am I going to be able to use the KNE110TX in my Beige G3? Kingston only made drivers for OS9, and OSX doesn't see it for some reason.
Then there are programs I used everyday, MUSIC programs, like Finale and Digital Performer, that don't work (Performer) in OS X or are buggy (Finale).
I mean, it's great that they want to move to OS X. It's a great OS. I love running it. I just can't get all the things I need to work on it yet. And, if memory serves me, didn't Apple support System 7.X for a long time after System 8 came out? And when they switched to Power PC Chips from Motorola 680XX chips. We had FAT (68K/PPC) programs for like years.
What is the big rush Steve?
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Well, I can't say that I am going to shed a tear and lament the passing of MacOS 9. It was good for its day, but MacOS X is here to stay.
Bob
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
In my opinion, if they have completely stoped development, why don't they start releasing some source code for older versions of the OS? That would really get the OSS community involved!
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
...ah, the unprotected memory. The cooperative multitasking. The first one taught me to never make off-by-one errors in CodeWarrior (it also, by proxy, taught me all about MacsBug). The second taught me never to FTP things while typing in a telnet window.
Yeah, I'll sure miss Pre-X MacOS...
Some Apple users may feel abandoned by this news, but it is obviously not unexpected. I suggest a little grief-counseling for the truly bereaved, but I'd bet that there are a lot of people out there who would actually consider buying a Mac now that wouldn't have dreamed it a year or so ago.
OS X brings Apple into a larger community and out of isolation. It may take some time for all of this to become apparent, but I think it is pretty obvious that everyone involved (Apple evangelists, *nix evangelists) will be better off with this move.
Guac-foo.
Lots of petrified grits
It is about time...
Good-bye and good riddance.
I've programmed in classic MacOS for 17 years, and I've actually contributed to MacOS 9. However, I upgraded my home Mac when 10.1 came out and never looked back.
MacOS 9 had a great existence, but MacOS X is superior in every way.
Quick, someone needs to write a petition to open-source Mac OS 9! And then we can put Beowulf clustering into Mac OS 9 and...
Oh, nevermind.
As usual slashdot couldn't resist posting this before getting all the facts straight - or getting all the facts at all. Here are two other portions of the still-live announcement that would have been worth waiting for:
"Rendezvous. Dynamic IP discovery. Lets computers "dynamically discover each other and share them." Proposing as a new industry standard. Jobs cited example of multiple Macs working at home sharing MP3 files with iTunes between multiple computers. Demonstrated example of MP3 files streaming over AirPort. Works with any IP-ready device; built into Jaguar and will also be offered as an open industry standard that can be built into specific devices."
and
"Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM."
As stated, 'twas gonna happen sooner or later. My thinking is that the notification of OS 9 being shelved is of only passing interest, as it is passe' itself.
OTOH, being an embedded systems developer, I know the havoc that can be caused by a vendor pulling a platform from under your feet. Are there actually any (commercial) developers who will be adversely affected by this? Does anyone really care that it's on its way out?
My own opinion is that OS X has so many advantages that it's a hands-down winner 'twixt the two.
Shine on, OS X!
I'm very impressed by Apples willingness to sacrifice backwards compatibility to make a better platform.
It's a risky move on a business level, but on an engineering level, it makes a lot of sense. I just have to hope that good design will beat questionable marketing.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
You might want to rethink that new Mac OS 9 category, then, huh?
:)
-Waldo Jaquith
If MS had just announced that they weren't going to develop for the Windows 98 and NT platforms anymore, this comment board would be filled with people yelling about their decision and how typical of MS it was.
Oh wait, they've already done that.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
The press (and Journalism types everywhere for that matter) are going to snort and scream about this one for a while, and they have reason, they seem to be the only ones waiting for major applications.
However, developers (I) on the other hand should be leaping with joy. Seems every time I've talked to someone about doing a port of an application, they want MacOS 9 and X support, and honestly as cool as Carbon can be, I'd rather be using C++ and Cocoa (Obj-C) with all the cool stuff that only MacOS X does.
About time they've done this. Despite some of the speed issues associated with MacOS X, it just doesn't have the baggage that MacOS 9.X and previous had.
`Bout dang time.
- Sighuh?
All he said is whats been happening since 9.1 came out, Apple has stopped devloping the OS 7-8-9 code base and are going to move everything to OS X.
Since Oct 2000, there were only 2 minor updates to OS 9 anyway.
Just because they arn't going to develop for OS 9 anymore doesn't mean OS 9 that's installed is going to stop working.
Down inside, the original MacOS was a lot like DOS - single-application, single thread, and no memory protection. Over the years, multiple applications were retrofitted to the thing, resulting in a horrible mess. CPU dispatching was the worst part. "Cooperative multitasking" wasn't enough. But instead of putting a real scheduler, all sorts of "tasks" (timer tasks, vertical blanking interval tasks, system tasks, deferred tasks, multiprocessor tasks, Open Transport tasks, etc.) were added over time. Each of these had a different set of restrictions on what it could do. It would have been far simpler to put in a real CPU dispatcher early on.
Better late than never, I suppose.
I knew a lot of Windows users who said the same thing when Win95 came out. I knew a few who held onto Win 3.11 like some sort of retarded obsessive high-school crush until it simply no longer worked anymore. They whined, they complained, but, eventually, they were forced to run Win9x. And, guess what? They found out what everyone else did: Win 3.11 sucked. Win95 was better. Win98 was even better.
MacOS 9 sucked. MacOS X is better. The next release should suck even less. That's how these things work. You can whine about it all you want, but whining never turned the tides of progress (if it did, slashdot would be trend-setting.)
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
O.K. Moderators have your fun with me, but I can't help but comment on the new OS 9 icon where the only story under the topic is the end of OS9. Wouldn't this be better placed under Apple:)
"as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee" - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz. (One man's humorous is another mans flamebait)
Kingston hasn't updated any of their drivers for those cards. I don't think they MAKE ethernet cards anymore.
Go with Asante instead.
Like the bully it is slashdot has now ruined the fun for the rest of us. Maccentral has been slashdotted - no more live reporting for anyone.
Oh God, how I hate thee, Slashdot.
The Macintosh is finally dead.
Long live NeXT!
Once Apple realizes that the PowerPC has no change of catching up with Intel/AMD, they will have to abandon that too.
What are you stupid? You can't expect them to remove it on an annocment like that. There will still be the odd news on it now and then. Wow, you are a real idiot. I can't believe you can even type. Jesus. WHat the heck is wrong with you?
Apple has had to split support and development across 2 Mac OS, as have many of their 3rd party developers. Now, there is one platform again. Developers who have been slow to support OSX will now have to move their asses or drop the Mac. Some will of course do that latter. It will be interesting to see what remains.
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
You're mad! Mad, I say, mad!
BTW, how long till the first OS-9 emulator hits the fan? ;)
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
You may not realise this, but a false "-1 offtopic" can really hurt a guy.
Apple seems to be taunting them on purpose, consider their "Rip. Mix. Burn." ads. Gateway payed Apple the sincerest form of flattery with their later ad campaign, but still Apple was the first to stick their neck out.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
The IETF zeroconf working group, led by Apple's Stuart Cheshire, has been working on this for a while.
This is just great. Suddenly my 2 months old iBook just became a lot older. The iBook will be 6 months old when Jaguar comes out. And already they are not supporting it's graphics card with the new feature...
Way to go, apple.
Lars
I wonder if this will spur ATTBI to officially support MacOSX. As of right now, they will only support users booting into MacOS 9 first then doing the troubleshooting there.
Fucking morons. Saying that ATTBI doesn't support it because they have not done enough testing...
TCP/IP set to ethernet/dhcp and use IE. How fucking hard could it possibly be?
For good minute-by-minute coverage of the keynote, commit HTTP to Apple Confidential. The latest news (as I post this) is iChat a new Apple IM client built into the 10.2 release of Mac OS X. I know the lead engineer on that project and I expect it will be pretty sweet.
Sailing over the event horizon
With it go some of the things that Mac users have come to love about their quirky boxes...high quality (but expensive) parts, Easter Eggs, strange homebrew interfaces (ADB, anyone?), tiny screens, humorous error messages that convey no information...everything that at one point made Apple Apple.
Well, I don't like it. You can have your protected memory. And while you're at it, you can remember to take your preemptive multitasking, too. We Mac users have always maintained that that kind of stuff just isn't needed for the home user, and I stand by it, even if Steve Jobs won't.
Call me crazy, but I appreciate an intuitive interface; yeah, that's right: intuitive. Since when does it make sense for "Shut Down" to be classified under a little picture of an Apple? How is your average Joe or Jane going to find it there, when it clearly should be labelled "Special". There was a time when the Apple icon was reserved for "Chooser" and "Calculator", but that time has come to pass.
Not to mention the new "brushed metal" appearance of the Apple CD player. Once upon a time, a user could choose (yes, remember choice?) from an extensive handful of horrid, non-standard color schemes for the late, great Apple CD Audio Player.
So let's raise our glasses in honor of Mac OS 1-9, the interface we hated to love for so many years. And let us launch off our Holiday Rockets in honor of Steven Jobs, our own great Lincoln, liberating the slaves of the antebellum command line. And raise too our voices, for tonight we give thanks where none thanks have dared yet go.
Thank you, Macintosh, for everything. The Last Mac Purist,
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
A. Next time, wait till the keynote is over, dont just post the first thing that happens and then have to go back and keep updating the article. There is always lots of interesting stuff said in the keynotes, no point jumping the gun.
B. Thanks for getting the maccentral.com link hammered halfway through the keynote. I always enjoy having my keynote newspage refreshing session destroyed by a few million of the unwashed slashdot masses, half of whom are probably just trying to read the article to find trolling material. This ties back to A. in that if you had waited to post this till after the keynote, those of us that *really* care would have been able to finish getting updates about the keynote before the link was trampled.
Mod me down, I don't care. I'm frustrated.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
I'm thrilled to see spring loaded folders coming back!
42
Other than that: Wasn't AGP supposed to allow the GPU to access system RAM as well, albeit slower?
About Damn Time!
Like steal from the Open Source community, no doubt.
"Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."
What exactly is the problem here? An OS doesn't have to be slow to be stable (Both Be and Windows 2000 are very snappy, even on "entry level" hardware.)
The main problem here is that a $1000 PC runs Windows 2000 lightning fast, and a $1000 Mac with OSX is very slow. They have to address this!
OS-X is based on a lot of open-source code. Time for payback! Open-source the OS9 code (and its predecessors)!
BTW, guys, I like the 'Aqua' slash theme... but won't you get sued?
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
but no details until Tues, May 14.
Will classic apps still run in classic environment?
How long until the classic compatibility layer is no longer functional?
Did anybody hear any specifics?
42
kick ass, no more SMB!!!!!!!!
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
WTF is that?!? The iBook, a machine they are selling RIGHT NOW does not meet those specs. So basically their current 'entry level' model is never going to have accelerated video? This is ridiculous.
I had one, it was so slow that I sold it. This video driver issue is probably the reason why.
Macs last longer than PCs, huh? How long is an iBook with no video acceleration going to be able to keep up with OS X? Apparently by "two years ahead", Steve means "you'll need the machine we'll be selling two years from now to keep up with the OS we're selling today".
Jaguar Server: Net Install and Net Boot support. Every single server can install off of that. Built in Open Directory (LDAP). Server-optimized Java Virtual Machine.
Jobs: "A week from tomorrow there'll be some news on the server front." May 14th: Apple introducing a dedicated server, rack mount model.
Apple Big Iron
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
I never liked OS9because I could not play my favorite game, DOOM. I can play it on Linus however. It is a fun game in which you run through a maze and shoot evil monsters and bad humans. And the humans say "hey! Hey!" in slo- motion when you shoot them. They are fat and scary. Also there are pink demon monsters that look like the one in that bugs bunny cartoon. DOOM is my favorite game and I p;lay it on my Linus beowulf clusters exclusivveley.
There hasn't been any other game like DOOM ever, where you are running through a maze shooting things. DOOOM was the last kind of game in whichyou did that because people who make game s are super smart and they are always thinking of new things to program in to the games. It is a very scary game DOOOm, the best one ever!
"Offtopic" really means "What you said, while inarguably related to the story, was clever or irreverant in a way I, the moderator, find unsettling."
Haven't you figured that out yet?
dinner: it's what's for beer
and they are first in screwing their customers... even worse than Microsoft screws people...
If I'm worng... please set me straight.
Yeah, they're all audio apps, and the funny thing is, OS X is supposed to have inherited a kick-butt set of classes/APIs for dealing with Audio and Music (MusicKit), but I haven't seen a whole lot come of it yet. Hmmm
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
I am glad to see OS 9 as 'dead' because this forces developers to start creating more native support for OS X and not settling for 9 compatibility. As of right now, I have an Epson scanner with no native X drivers.
On the other hand, I am very concerned of the loss of support for 9 users. One example that comes to my mind is the Western Michigan University Theatre department which run 9 on all of their Apple computers, most of which can't even run 10.1, let alone the new demands of 'Jaguar.' Also, all of the major programs (besides Office) are either not available in X or require a major upgrade to become X compatible. That's a lot of money to spend, epically when most of your computers can't run in X. The question can be raised that the department needs to update their hardware, but when the current setup is fully functional, why spend the money to change it all?
I believe this move is to create a focus for developers to develop support of X that take charge of very innovative technologies that X has to benefit the users. I only hope that we 9 will still be supported and at least welcomed. Hopefully someone will visit the retirement home once-in-a-while and say hello to 9.
AnamanFan - Trying to find the Truth, one post at a time.
iChat: AIM-compatible messaging built in to Jaguar. Can create buddy list of anyone on the local network, as well. You can use your Mac.com name and don't need AOL account. Sorting. "First time AOL has let anyone under the tent," said Jobs (although others have reversed-engineered AIM compatible chat apps).
I think this is a huge announcement from Apple. With AOL taking Netscape/Mozilla and using it as its Web App replacing IE, we saw the first shot across the Microsoft bow by Case. Now Jobs and Case are teaming up to make AOL IM a bundled part of Mac OS X. Taking Microsoft's game and shoving it right back them. I assume this is why MSN has finally started supporting Mac OS with their service. They are reading the writing on the wall.
We have been seeing Apple getting more aggressive in dealing with Microsoft. Jobs balked at the Microsoft/DOJ "Give the Kiddies Windows" settlement, Apple's website now shows you that Mac OS X kicks XP's butt, the famous Photoshop "bakeoffs" and now the AOL IM in Jaguar. What next?
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Can somebody explain why Apple is emphasizing the 32MB video RAM? I thought one of the features of AGP is that the graphics card can use main RAM as well?
Lars
I have worked with MacOS since days of 7 and my favorite has got to be 8 not counting X. 9 always gave me trouble if it wasnt programs crashing it was the crash at startup forcing a restart. I know extensions were at stake, but sometimes one doesnt have time to go through an extension conflict.
Hated 9 you will not be missed.
All you people saying "Yeah they should open source the old versions of the code" This is never going to happen. Just because they are no longer developing the older OS's doesn't mean they're not using tons of code from it. It just doesn't make any sense. And everybody whining about how it sucks that its gone. It's not gone they just aren't making any new improvements to OS9 which they haven't been for a while anyway. People that don't want to switch won't and as long as that happens people in the mac industry will probally still support OS9
What is the difference between this and APIPA?
I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
Maybe I should put my iBook up on eBay and get an iMac. I mainly use the iBook at the desk in the kitchen anyway.
mbbac
They just aren't going to support MacOS 9. Classic will still work fine and I imagine it always will. I bet they will continue to work on classic support but MacOS 9.2.1 is the end of the OS itself. Apple doesn't want developers to waste their time on OS9 apps... they will still have to do Carbon apps that work with 9 simply because of the installed base but the sooner we can get away for Carbon and anything related to 9, OSX apps will just get better.
Isn't that what M$ wanted to do with the whole UPNP thing? Won't it be susceptible to the same security issues? I mean this is fundamentally leaving the door open to the vault with a sign that says "crackers welcome."
It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs
altouth that sucks for Rage 128 onwers, just imagine how faster X will be. All that transparency, shadows, etc, being drawed by hardware would be MUCH faster (and will leave us lots of memory free for running multiple apps)...
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
Why not some support for the XDarwin project? This would give an easy way to bring Linux GUI developers on board, without making them unlearn open source gtk to learn the very much closed source Cocoa. The world of X11 apps is very much larger than Cocoa apps at this point (compare versiontracker's cocoa app list to FreshMeat's X11 section), and will be for the forseeable future. Why? Non-North-American countries which have a lot of developers (Poland, Germany, India) find it a lot easier to buy into hardware that runs X11.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
I rember the old days when sue happy Apple was suing everyone who put a trash can on the desktop, including Atari.
Now apple rips off the name of an old Atari product, Jaguar.
Oh, if only Tramiel hadn't run the company into the ground....
Argh! Here I am, living in Europe forced to use this accursed Windows laptop, and looking forward to getting back to my not-even-two-years-old 450 MHz dual processor G4 at the end of the year. But a look at apple-history.com tells me that my model has a Rage 128 Pro graphics card and 16 MB of DRAM.
I am not exactly flush with cash right now and was planning on using my G4 for at least another year, but I'd hate to not be able to get bast 10.1.x. The most complex computer operation I've ever attempted is a RAM upgrade. How difficult/expensive would it be to upgrade my video card and VRAM? To show how dumb I am, I don't even know if that constitutes two separate operations.
jf
There is a company that makes chat software called ichat, and they've been around off and on for the last 7-8 years or so. I wonder if they will run into any problems with their chosen name. I wouldn't think having one letter capitialized would be enough to diferentiate the names.
I for one, made the transition to OS X last June. I've been a Mac-head for a long time...we've always had a Mac in the house (and PCs), and Mac was just more intuitive an OS for me. The geek in me wanted the power of a command-line interface and UNIX and I have it now...
:-)
However, there's the non-geek in me that wants a nice, easy GUI, and I have that, too, so bear in mind, it's not just the geek talking when I say this.
I seldom use OS 9 anymore. I haven't booted into it in probably 4-5 months, and the only Classic app I have left is Fontographer. GIMP filled the gap until Photoshop 7 came out. The transition has been smooth, pleasant, and altogether nice.
I demand a lot of my systems -- as much as any other MacOS 9 "power user" -- and the transition has been an open road. I love it. I'm learning a lot about *nix operating systems, and still able to crank out fonts, do web design, mix music, etc.
Guess what else? It's expanded my resume. I can now safely put MySQL, PHP, and Apache admin all on it. Access/ASP/IIS have all fallen by the wayside. The new version of my website is making the switch to all all-open source technologies format.
The only holdouts I see are people who are too stuck in their ways to adapt to change. OS X has been the future since it was announced...get with the times or become a dinosaur, those are your options. Personally, I prefer to evolve.
As for my Winblows machine -- I keep it around to play Roller Coaster Tycoon on. My next server? Probably an IBM rackmount running RedHat.
Evolving doesn't have to be painful. Hell, it isn't. It's fun, dammit. So, dust off your checkbook, go buy a new Mac that can run OS X and fucking play... You started using computers because they were fun and gave you a sense of discovery, right? Now, go. Shoo. Have fun.
blog |
If your machine is secure, it doesn't matter whether crackers can discover your IP address or not.
Everything runs like a charm on my DP800 Quicksilver, and will apparently only be getting better. Too bad you bought the "Happy Meal" Mac.
Couldn't you just do the test once and set some function pointers which all subsequent code would use?
DNA just wants to be free...
Wow. Ping the broadcast address :)
--"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
How long until the classic compatibility layer is no longer functional?
Presumably the Classic environment will always be functional, until it goes away forever. See, this is a developer's conference. When Apple announces that they're EOL'ing OS 9 to developers that means they're stopping development on OS 9. No future development on OS 9 means no need for future development on the Classic environment.
So Apple shouldn't release improved technology because it can't work with the low-end machines? When people bought their iBooks, was Steve Jobs telling them that it would have hardware accelerated Quartz? I don't think so. Guess what? You get what you pay for.
At least 10.2 will work with your iBook. '99 G3 PB ("Lombard") owners have to keep OS 9 around just to use their DVD player. Totally unsupported on OSX.
They're the ones who released those phony pics of an Apple branded PDA last year. Whether it was a publicity stunt or they were deceived (my money's on the former), Spymac is NOT a good source for Mac news.
Try macnn.com instead.
Which broadcast address? The point of this is so you don't need to be on the same network segment.
So... you can easily share your stuff with anyone on the internet -- though I wonder how autodiscovery would work like that (wow.. 30 million mac users online).
Kinda brings new meaning to p2p integration if it's directly tied into the burning suites.
Rod Taylor
It's fully OSX native and has two more instruments over and above Reason 1; a new graintable synth and an advanced sampler. The OSX drivers for my Roland UM1 midi interface are also in beta now and can be downloaded here.
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
I agree that X doesn't support stuff as well as 9 does. I have a mac serial printer that works fine but X doesn't support serial devices(at least printers). Makes me mad, but that is the way things go. Unfortunatly there is no incentive for companies to support hardware that is no longer made. Or software that doesn't run on the current OS version. So sorry to say thats the way it is, won't change, so deal with it.
LinuxWorx
Spelling errors are intentional as are gramatical error
Sorry I was being a smart a$$.
--"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
Out of AOL's millions of users, only a fraction are Mac users. AOL probably doesn't give a hoot about them, but if Apple were to lose them to Windows over AOL compatibility, it would be a bad thing, so Apple is going to take some pressure off of AOL by doing some development for them, since AOL hasn't been doing a stellar job of MacOS X development on their own. It's not about sticking it to Gates; it's about scrambling to keep market share.
OSX isn't going to get any slower on your 450DP than it (isn't) right now. Don't stress because you don't have th latest-greatest, when what you have is probably more of a computer than you or most people will actually ever use...
I think the osX is a good idea in concept - I like having freeBSD UNIX for programming and Mac for graphics. It really does combine the best of both worlds.
The problem with the lack of acceptance for some with osX has been in the very different interface from the classic that hardcore Mac fans used and loved for years. I, for one, can't stand the Microsoftian dock (I don't mind it being there for others but I'd like to have the option to get rid of it completely). I'd like my alias to be Command-M, not Command-L (why the change?). I'd like to be able to add aliases to my Apple menu, etc. All these nifty little things that helped our workflow are difficult and/or impossible with osX so we're forced to use the os like newbies again for some of the operations we now take for granted. I still don't like the Control Strip and I was glad when you have the option to not have that appear. I respect those that like that but I don't. I don't like stuff on my desktop. I don't mind if they're the default - as long as I can turn all of this stuff off rather than have an interface forced upon me. I think the Mac part of osX should have remained the same as the classic with additional tools and stuff added as OPTIONS, rather than forced interface additions. Then the acceptance would have been better.
The added UNIX support is enough for me to adopt it regardless of the interface nitpiks I have now with osX. I hope to see some of this improve later. I would also like to see improved classic application support (those that don't work under osX) - right now it required gobbling up a lot of hard drive space and still slow performance for non osX applications. I am willing to forgive this since osX is relatively new although not long-term. If applications don't support osX better than I'd like a better support from osX for os9 applications.
I think osX deserves a huge round of applause for combining a UNIX environment with the Mac - it's definitely the best of both worlds - and far far greater than any of the Windows operating systems. It will also help improve the annoying Mac networking interface plus allow for the ability to ping without having to download some shareware like MacPing to set up a network.
osX is still new and still could use a lot of improvements although this is definitely a step in the right direction for Apple. For those of us who cross the line between artist and programmer, this is utopia.
My 2.5 Year old 350 MHz G4 (lowest ever produced) has been running OSX since March 24th, 2001 (day it came out). It was ok to start, got better with each release and now that I am on 10.1.4 and running PS 7.0 I am happy as a clam. Uptimes of 18 days plus (from Apple updates) is really what makes it all worth while.
It will hold me till MWNY where a shiny new Dual G4 (something) awaits me.
...ago.
Oddly enough, I started using Mac OS X *BECAUSE* it has a command line. as a long time BSD user, I've always wanted a useful and responsive interface- os X gives me that, with my beloved bsd core beneath. it's a joy to use for that reason; I know several other BSD geeks who have bought new apples for this reason only, and never would have even thought about it prior to X.
Now if they would only port Aqua to x86, so it could run on all my happy darwin/x86 boxes...
EOM
APIPA is yet another acronym for link-local IPv4 addressing.
What Apple is calling "Rendezvous" begins with link-local IPv4 addressing and adds "multicast DNS" (which Microsoft wants to call "link-local multicast name resolution," i.e. LLMNR... sigh).
Here's what Rendezvous *actually* is: it's the last little bit of what Appletalk had going for it, finally "ported over" to work on the Internet protocol. Not only is Mac OS 9 in the terminal patient's ward-- so is the Appletalk network protocol. Happy happy day.
--
jhw
This from Apple's press release:
iChat, Apple's new AIM-compatible instant messaging software that is built into Mac OS X and integrated with the new Mail and Address Book applications;
QuickTime® 6, the first complete solution for industry standard MPEG-4 video and AAC audio streaming;
Rendezvous, Apple's proposed new industry standard for automatic discovery of computers, devices, and services on IP networks (i.e., Ethernet, AirPort®);
Address Book, Apple's new system-wide database for managing contact information;
Finder(TM), now enhanced with spring-loaded folders and new instant searching;
Sherlock® 3, Apple's all-new Internet search and services tool;
Quartz(TM) Extreme, the hardware accelerated Quartz graphics and compositing engine;
UNIX Tools, the latest UNIX advancements including FreeBSD 4.4 updates, the new GCC 3 compiler, IPv6 and IPSec; and Windows Support, for increased compatibility with Windows networks with SMB browsing and sharing as well as built-in PPTP VPN security.
-- Your local friendly mad scientist-in-training
To Slashdot! Drop your 9 icon ;)
I'm probably suffering from a temporary lack of imagination, but what's the point to putting handwriting recognition into a desktop OS?
My best guess is that it's to go after the market of people who haven't ever gotten any computer simply because they don't know how/can't type. (I'm thinking of the elderly mostly, but anybody who's "afraid" of computers in general would fit.) Maybe at some point iMacs will start coming with a small digitizing tablet that would eventually become as common as keyboards and mice?
I can't decide if it's just pointless code bloat or part of a major strategy to go after a huge untapped market. Any other ideas?
I think that means the ATI Radeon Mobility would be supported but that is only a guess on my part
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
It sounds like Jini to me.
It says, basically:
"*nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance."
Note the "Optimum Performance" part. I suppose older systems will get some benefit, but that's my guess.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
Now that the most popular version of Unix(tm), Mac OS X, which ships more Unix(tm) boxes than all other vendors and variants of *linux combined, is based on true blue BSD, it is a clear sign that the linux virus---which has set back the state of computing by 10 years rewriting perfectly good code that's already in BSD, except *linux wrote it wrong---is finally dying.
You're an idiot. Mac OS X is supported by Apple on all but the very first Powerbook G3 (Kanga). The ones supported are the (Wallstreet, Lombard and Pismo) models. Also supported is the beige G3 desktop Powermac. ADB ports on all models that have them work fine. I should know, my Wallstreet has been running OS X for over a year and a half since the public beta. The only thing that is missing is accelerated graphics support. But by no means are these machines unsupported.
This home user loves protected memory and pre-emptive multitasking. If you're satisifed with substandard performance from your OS then so be it but its really silly to bitch when those things are improved.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I think MenTaLguY's point was that you should not have if statements "sprinkled all over the code". At process init, do the test and then set some global function pointers to the OS-specific version. You complain about having to maintain multiple functions, but you still have the same code in your codebase today. Instead of using nicely modularized functions for each OS, it sounds like your current code has all that same code (plus OS version checks) smooshed into a single monster function.
For example, you could have a global function pointer called TcpSend. Then set it to point to one of an OS-specific implemenation such as TcpSend_MacTcp(), TcpSend_OpenTransport(), and TcpSend_BSD().
cpeterso
A question. Does Apple charge for point upgrades, like from 10.0 to 10.1 or am I going to have to shell out bucks for 10.2 when it comes out this Christmas (that's what late summer means, right)?
Guess I need to run YDL for sure on my B&W's now. :-(
Protools is still being developed for OS 9 and I don't think that they have even started the move to X, hell on the windows side for LE you can't even run 2k, let alone XP! (www.digidesign.com)
What about this iChat? AOL is blocking all these 3rd party clients? Is there going to be a problem with this one too?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/
No I'm not a Karma Whore, but I'm willing to learn
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
I see an awful lot of responses here claiming "That's good OSX is so much better, everybody should move to it even if they have to buy a new computer."
I can certainly understand that attitude, I hold it myself.
But what I'm really curious about is why Apple is not honoring the types of provisions that the non-settling States are trying to impose on Microsoft. Why not continue to sell MacOS 9 at a lower price than Mac OSX and let the consumers decide which is better? Consumers buying Apple hardware should have a choice as to which OS to install.
Wouldn't this be a way for Apple to show to us that they are willing to lead by example?
The first and biggest misunderstanding in your post is that all slashdot visitors share a common viewpoint. If one person rails against MS, and another person cheers on Apple, that's not hypocrisy. It might be hypocrisy if it were the same person in each case, but you haven't shown that. And even if you did, that would only suggest that that one person was hypocritical, not all slashdot visitors.
Or, to put it another way, it's as if I accused you of hypocrisy because slashdot visitors criticise Microsoft, and here you are, defending them. That's every bit as hypocritical as what you're accusing others of. (Zero is equal to zero.)
The second, and more egregious, mistake is assuming that Microsoft and Apple are equivalent. Here's a clue for ya: Microsoft has been found guilty of anti-competitive behavior in a court of law. Apple hasn't. I'm not really a fan of Apple, but to assume that people should judge these two companies by the same standards is just plain foolish.
Which leads to the conclusion that even if you could find some specific individuals to accuse of hypocrisy, your accusations might not stand up too well.
My god man, I remember the IBM and AT&T cases, and MS makes both of those companies (who were pretty foul in their day) look like saints!
well, now if you need 32mb video memory for an OS that will only be the only developer supported OS... doesn't that put most of the iMacs (not the new flat screen one silly) out in the cold? Also, last time I checked, most of these laptops didn't have a 32mb video card.
You know, while they flaunt the *nix core to the OS, they sure do know how to make it run slow in compairsion to other *nixes, as well as compatable with so little, but then again KDE with Performance Liquid theme running is slow too!!
Tibbon
tibbon.com
For everyone wondering whether their video card will be able to use the hardware-accelerated Quartz, I quote from Apple's website (at the bottom of the page):
"Supported cards: nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance."
Also note that they say 32 MB of RAM is recommended but theoretically not required. So I don't think this is quite as much of a debacle as some posters have made it out to be. Besides, Quartz should be improved and faster in 10.2 whether you're using hardware acceleration or not; you just won't get the max performance if it isn't hardware-accelerated.
"95% of all Slashdot
It ain't just the interface bubbeleh.
one of my friends who just got back from the conference said that there was a coffin on stage for os9.. I dunno.. I thought it was funny..
ichat is supposedly being "let under the tent" by aol. according to the coverage on maccentral. i.e. aol is playing nice with apple, since they realize the official AIM client sucks rocks.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Fare thee well, OS 9. You didn't suck, compared to Win 9.x. But OS X rocks hard, pokey as it is. And it will get better as it goes.
Pity apple won't see its way clear to support the older ATI cards with 10.2's hardware acceleration. My older iBook runs 10.1 passably well, but it's clearly out of its water.
Here's what I'm going to do, and maybe some of you fellow Maccies might follow suit: I'm going to quit bitching about what Apple will or will not support. I assume Jobs is making the decisions he feels he must to keep the company profitable.
I'm gonna buy a set of Mandrake PPC disks and put Linux on my iBook. I'm betting it will fly. Besides, I'm smitten by Evolution. I have it on my work box, and miss it at home. Gnome and Linux on the iBook. Cool.
Then I'm going to buy a new iMac. It'll run 10.2 just great. I'll probably partition the drive for a side-by-side Mandrake install, too.
That's my plan. I'm gonna move forward with OS X, and run Linux on the older Apple hardware. Rock on with your pants on.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
From this press release.
Until now, OS X's Darwin was synced with FreeBSD 3.2, if I understand things right.
This doesn't mean a lot to me. Could somebody with a clue and the ability to be clear please explain what syncing with FreeBSD 4.4 adds to the table?
It certainly sounds good.
I'm sorry I missed the sarcasm there, I'm usually pretty good at spotting that... thanks for followup as I really was confused how someone could find that better!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I wonder if Inkwell can recognize Mathematical formulae. If so, I wonder if it can produce the output in TeX form...
Ah, to be free from $'s.
Except when loading up 10,000 Mozilla/OmniWeb/IE windows, OSX works very fast for me. I don't think there will be that much difference with Jaguar if most of the emphasis is on increasing graphics speed.
When I load up loads of windows, for some reason the menus get sluggish. I think this may be about the memory the web browsers are using as much as anything else, but it's odd considering that I have 1.5gb RAM.
The new 1ghz system is only about 30% faster than the dual 450. So I wouldn't worry about getting rid of the dual 450 just yet.
Hope that helps.
D
My first reaction on reading the post was that the guy had eaten too many press releases for breakfast. Exactly the same as reading any pro .NET crap from Redmond. So no harm done to balanced thinkers (ie, I distrust ALL press release regurgitations).
Infuriate left and right
What really got me excited today was the news about Inkwell, the handwriting recognition engine for 10.2.
I'm excited because it's so useless. There is no way that Jobs would put his people through the effort of bringing handwriting recognition to OS X unless it was a precursor to the iPad. My guess is October, January at the latest.
Soooooo happy.
Kevin Fox
So, a new topic for OS9 was created, number 178 in slashcode, and this is the only article under it. Why, may i ask, does this deserve its own topic, thinking that this will probably be the first AND last post for it (os9) as they are getting rid of it anyways.
Erm, long, cluttered sentence. I'm too lazy to rephrase. Sorry.
that's the same as
BROADCAST=255.255.255.255
or somewhat less promiscuous netmasking. With suppression of outgoing discovery at the gateway.
Actually your scenario sounds like what Gnutella already is.
Do you remember WWDC 1997? When the Apple CEO said "Any machine sold by Apple in 1997 will run our new OS - Rhapsody".
Guess what? That didn't happen.
And the Apple consumers in 1997/1998/1999 didn't hold Apple to their 'promise'.
Apple knows they can screw their customers and they will keep coming back. So your complaint will now be ignored, because Apple knows the consumer of Apple's products won't care.
Don't you mean MSLLMNR?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Put on your reality glasses. OS 9 will work tomorrow and at this time next year and 10 years down the road. But there won't be any new software for it. Kind of like how there's not a heck of a lot of new software for OS's that were around in 1992.
Evolution. Learn to live with it. Fewlz0rs!
Mac OS 1 wasn't identified as such, because prior to version 8 it was called "System"--but there did exist a System 1.0. System 6 didn't come out until 1989.
Last I heard, he'd fallen in the water.
Quartz Extreme won't run on an iBook doesn't mean Quartz won't be faster under Jaguar on a modern iBook.
Likewise the OS X pages mentions 32mb recommended for optimum performance, not 32mb required for Quartz to run.
So iBook owners *will* see a performance boost, Quartz *will* go faster, but people with 32+MB T&L AGP4x video cards will see the *most* performance gain, just as people with G4 CPUs will see more performance gains than people with G3 CPUs
GPL Deconstructed
That's a p2/266 with a five gig drive. Had 64 megs RAM when I got it. $80 at crucial.com and it's at 288. (two 128meg sticks and 32 on the motherboard).
It's currently running Gentoo Linux. Every binary on my system except OpenOffice and Mozilla were compiled on my box with a lengthy set of gcc optimizations in CFLAGS. That's everything from zsh to KDE, XFree 4.2, etc.
Gentoo supplies a unified kernel patch, which includes all the fun goodies like preempt kernel and various latency patches.
I run KDE3. That means Konsole and Konqueror. KDE has no decent IRC app, so I have XChat compiled with no gnome support. Ditto for gnome. I read mail remotely in a terminal with mutt, but I've played with KMail, and even compiled all of gnome just to play with Evolution. (it's easy. I typed "emerge evolution" as root, and went to bed. When I woke up, the system had all of Gnome and evolution and all dependancies.)
I'm about to upgrade the CPU. p2/400 cpu's (MMC-2 form factor) have sold on ebay recently for as low as $26USD. I'll still have only a bit more than a hundred bucks in this thing.
I'm also pondering a hard drive upgrade. That will be the big expense. I'm weighing exactly how much space I need. 20gig for a bit above $100? or do I splurge on the 48gig drives and drop $350?. I'm also pondering either a USB or firewire drive. I've got a whole PCMCIA port doing nothing and firewire cards are cheap.
I use this machine daily. I surf the web, I listen to mp3's, I read my mail, I converse on IRC. I code, either in XEmacs remotely in a Konsole, or using Kate over kio_fish (Off tangent remark: kio_fish is fucking brilliant, if only I could use a few non KDE apps to access those remote drives).
Is it a speed demon? No. Is it flawless? No. Is it usable? Absolutely.
The system bogged down a bit using a more complex theme like mosfet's Liquid. I reverted to something more generic and it's downright zippy. Changing windows is fast, changing desktops is fast. The only time the system bogs down is if I'm compiling something, listening to mp3's and otherwise stressing the machine. But it never stops being usable.
Sure, it has it's faults. A bug in the thinkpad bios will make lm_sensors blow away certain EEPROM info on the system and turn it into an irreparable black doorstop. The little nubby mouse thing (Trackpoint?) has the annoying habit of masking the middle mouse button off a mouse connected to the PS2 port, forcing you to use Emulate3Buttons on external mice. And IBM never did learn how to make batteries worth a damn. Certain combinations of batteries and BIOS revisions can cause the "Smart" batteries to think they're empty, when they aren't. Some people report having a battery last only 3 months before total failure.
But those things aside, it's an incredibly usable machine. It does what I want.
Killing Appletalk sounds great, reinventing it layered on top of IP sounds kind of iffy to me. One thing that kind of choked Appletalk, especially on fully loaded networks was all the broadcast traffic.
You can dress it up and call it "multicast", but it still goes to all the nodes it can unless you have L2 switches that are multicast aware, and most aren't.
I do like the idea of a functional, working browsing mechanism. Too bad MS's won't work with Apple's, although I do note they are both working on "broadly compatible" competing multicast DNS proposals.
there are two different types of HW acceleration:
:)
1 - 'normal' 2D HW acceleration. it relieves the CPU from things like drawing boxes and basic shapes. this is currently in OS X and supported by pretty much all modern macs.
2 - Quartz "Extreme" (like, XT? WTF?) HW acceleration. relieves the CPU from calculating transparency and anti-aliasing and stuff like that. since the 2D accelerators in current graphics cards do not support these features [it's not in windows..], apple has come up with a hack - using OpenGL acceleration. OpenGL, while originally intended for 3D, supports transparency and anti-aliasing, and since 2D is a subset of 3D... it's doable.
i suspect that it takes so much graphics card memory because it's basically a hack. if the cards supported 2D transparency/anti-aliasing/post-script out of the box, it would be a lot cheaper.
so quit whining. OS X has gotten faster with every release so far, and currently it's running pretty damn fast on this non-quartz-extreme-enabled powerbook g4/667. despite doing all this graphics gimmickry in CPU time, it seems faster than my 1GHz win2k notebook... and it's much prettier, too
Think the protocols could be modified for plug-and-play beowulf clusters? Espesialy if you combined it with the plug-and-play PVM stuff that was availible for X and reported here (although the link eludes me currently).
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
According to Apple's Mac OS X new version page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/), Quartz Extreme's supported video cards are:
nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.
RECOMMENDED, NOT REQUIRED
Check the info before you start the next flame war.
My G4 450 (yes, the original, top of the line G4 in 1999) runs OS X just fine. It still uses the original ATI Rage 128 video card and still has the 384 megs of ram it came with from the factory. I've gotten a larger and faster hardrive, but that's it.
I don't see why people complain about OS X being slow. Sure 9 was faster in some ways, but it didn't do as much. It certainly wasn't running Apache and PostgreSQL.
t'nera semordnilap
Then there are programs I used everyday, MUSIC programs, like Finale and Digital Performer, that don't work (Performer) in OS X or are buggy (Finale).
this is why classic OS must stick around - cooperative multitasking. there are some situations in which hogging the system is beneficial. i don't want the OS to steal all the processor power away from more VST/MAS/RTAS plug-ins (although Quartz Extreme will help aleviate this to my understanding, but not on my machine). sure it's a pain rebooting in to OS 9 to work on tracks, but it helps me keep on task and not be distracted by widgets.
OT: i believe Jaguar should include options to turn off fancy little tricks like animations and such like Windows XP does. it would help speed up slower systems.
... Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of 'the other guys.'
Is it just me or is Mac OS X not ahead at all? Windows has had hardware-accelerated GUI redrawing since, like, forever, mostly provided by drivers. 2000/XP extended that even further. And if I remember right, I thought some of the *nix UI stuff like KDE/GNOME supported hardware acceleration? BeOS supported hardware acceleration for the GUI, using VESA, as well. I don't know about any other OSes though, I haven't used most of them much. I really don't see how Mac OS X is 'ahead' at all, considering that their current versions aren't very accelerated at all (even though their speed is impressive considering what they do.)
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
They aren't on Apple's page or anywhere else that I can find. Given that Apple rumour sites live off stuff like this, isn't this just another wild rumour?
asdfasdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_c
get over it, OS9 is no longer the big new thing. that would be OSX 10.1.4. there is no way in hell that anyone should be developing for a older version of its own O.S. is Microsoft still actively developing for win2k? nope. just doing security updates, nothing for functionality.
how long has OSX been out for? right.
it is absolutely stupid for Apple to spend resources on OS9. it is not like they have the $40B lying around that some other company does. the future is OSX, and it was their own choosing. deal with it.
if not, keep on using OS9. i have an old laptop lying around with win 3.1 and dos 6.0. works fine. even ms office still works. completely out of date, in the same way that OS9 is compared to OSX, but it is still usable.
besides, if you were such a hardcore "old school" Mac OS user, you wouldn't need/want the newest hardware. you would want that old system, in both hardware and software.
So let's see...over a year after OSX is introduced into a captive market they have...1 million units installed. Out of about 30 million machines? That's a whopping 3%. Oh, but they expect to have 5 million by the end of the year. A whopping 16%!
I am sitting here writing a cross-platform client for a startup. Mac is 5% of the market and OSX is 16% of that by the end of the year, so guess what target I am working on? I'm sure we will get to the OSX version one day, but not for a few months yet.
OS9 is alive and well. So, it appears, is Steve's Reality Distortion Field(tm).
You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
I noticed at my local CompUSA store that the older (400MHz and 500MHz) iBook models were on clearance, and with the upcoming release of Jaguar with Quartz Extreme, it is a good bet that they will have improved graphics cards...
I still have an old boot disk with System 4.2 and Crystal Quest on it. It is the oldest version of the Mac OS that I've ever used.
t'nera semordnilap
This is hilarious!!!
d _l ede#
A wonderful eulogy to a dead OS. Classic Jobs. Very very funny!
Warning: Real/WinMP only...
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-899914.html?tag=f
My Powerbook G4 has 16MB of video RAM I believe. (667 MHz, bought in January 2002) And that's not enough for "Quartz Extreme" A box less than 6 months old? That doesn't seem right.
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
Why? Non-North-American countries which have a lot of developers (Poland, Germany, India) find it a lot easier to buy into hardware that runs X11.
Good idea to downgrade the Germans to the group of 2nd world countries. We can now enjoy int'l aid, subsidiaries from the European Union (instead of only paying them) and, finally, we can get rid of those stupid Daimler Benz company that's not so much fun any more since they bought out Chrysler.
Oh, and I'm going to return my fast DSL line (which I'm getting for 10 Euros a month here in Berlin) to demonstrate my commitment to fulfill your Germany-is-about-like-India prophecy.
Here's an answer to the question of the day: Apple supports Cocoa, because they want to create a good user experience that's exactly the same for all applications. And that's why the Mac OS (9/X) GUI is ahead of common Linux GUIs...
ps.: Berlin is the capital of Germany. That's some country in Europe.
Can anyone offer insight as to similarities between Quartz Extreme and evas? Is evas to X11 as Quartz Extreme is to OSX? In short, when can we realistically expect to see similar technologies on Linux that are capable of being used full-time?
Mac OS 9 didn't even have pre-emptive multitasking for processes. Memory management was nonexistant too. Good ridance.
I haven't even found a compelling reason to switch from Windows 95 to XP, but one big reason not to (paranoia). The only reason I've considered it is because I want to upgrade my computer sometime, but the 3D video cards I'm looking at don't offer drivers for Win95 at all. (The only thing I use Windows for is games, so I gotta have a spiffy video card for it.)
While we're talking about intuitive user interfaces, let's give a cheer for the greatest GUI innovation Apple came up with -- to eject a disk, you drag it to the trash can. Now that's user-friendly!
- is Apple using Jabber to power this chat service (probably too much to hope for) or
- will there at least be a Jabber gateway that will allow @mac.com users to communicate with @jabber.org, @jabber.com, or @any.jabber.server??
Please Apple, do for open IM what you did for USB.Glad to see that Stuart Cheshire is still around. The man deserves great accolades for creating bolo. I had wondered what happened to him.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Yep. Apple's famed trademark and copyright lawyers screwed up on letting this one through. There's no way that ichat is not going to get confused with iChat. ichat was the first instant messaging program I ever used. It's more focused for corporate uses, but unless Apple paid them off (and I'd be willing to bet that they didn't since there is no mention of of ichat on the web page or the press release), there's going to be some amount of backtracking on Apple's part.
Apple, once again, shooting themselves in the foot
The most shooting of the foot Apple has done has involved keeping the Mac OS 9 code base for so long. It's horribly limited and inflexible. It's hard to develop for and unstable compared to just about anything else. These aren't the type of problems that will go away if you work on them enough. The system design can no longer scale.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Do I need to keep the app running all the time? Do I need to run it at start up or is it set and forget?
thank you for the tip
I have the same configuration and do Java development on it. Works fine. My other machine is a G4/733.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Get with the times! At least run win98 SE. And I don't care what people say, win XP does kick ass. It really does. Microsoft finally got it right and I havn't said "stupid windows" in months.
iChat a new Apple IM client built into the 10.2 release of Mac OS X. I know the lead engineer
Could you ask him really nicely to use standard a standard Aqua background instead of brushed metal? Pleeeease?
Brushed metal stands out like a sore thumb to me. I love Aqua.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
I've been waiting forever for this feature.
I realize there are tons of web gui's, etc. for controlling a streaming server. But I love the iTunes interface.
Being able to do what I think steve was showing off (Mp3s stored remotely, server acts like the internal iTunes dbase, and just streams the mp3s to the client when they hit play). Would mean that I could use the iTunes app, which I love, to listen to music and select what I am listening too (most streaming servers need a command line / playlist / webgui interface, I want it straight from iTunes).
Hopefully someone makes an opensource mp3 server that acts exactly like this. Screw a web interface, give me a database front end app on my desktop. Write a plugin or two for winamp / linux mp3 player good ness, and it is one hell of a nice project. And it would be good practice implementing zeroconf (on linux anyway, getting MS to do it would be something entirely different).
I have a laptop, so being able to store my mp3s on a big, cheap, hard drive in a server somewhere, instead of locally, on my small, expensive, laptop drive, would be a dream.
The bandwidth for a 192K stream is inconsequential over airport / home network for me.
"Wow, imagine a beowulf cluster of those". [ducks]
I have an upgrading clone. none of the OS's will work with my current machine. It's an old machine but I want it to last just a little longer...
This drives me a little nuts, because I'm only able to run "unsupported" OS 9.1 which is unsuported and not available for purchase and I don't have it. No photoshop for me or many of the other creative folk with older machines..
Photoshop on my ibook just doesn't cut it when I have a dual monitor setup..
I have a feeling I'm not along. I crave the new technologies and osx is great great great, but I really would like 9 on my powermac as a stopgap...
Maybe I'll stop by my local apple store and get one of those spiffy new Emacs..
O wait...
/Aram
It probably wasn't too much work (relative to starting from scratch), given that the technology already existed for the Newton. This is should be considered more a port than a technological beak-through.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I just tried it -- it's for shit. It made my Wall Street PB's screen all blinky and slow. I don't doubt it's good on some systems, but it's not so hot on mine.
-Waldo Jaquith
it looks like apple blew off and polished the old newton handwriting code for osx... neato =)
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
I bought an iMac to get on the OS X bandwagon, and now I'm going to have to buy another Mac or leave the party?
Someone please tell me that I'll be able to upgrade to 10.2, or I'm getting out the Gentoo PPC disk out right now and blowing the Mac away.
If my less than 1 year old Mac is now obsoleted by the OS, Apple just lost a customer, who up until today, was excited to be a Mac owner.
I could understand if my Mac was two or three years old, but 9 months? Sheesh!!!
I was excited about Jaguar until I read about Quartz Extreme.
Great. Just great.
--- If you hadn't stayed to read this
Win 3.11 and Win 95 (and OS 9 and OS-X) were fundimentally different. Win 95 spoke a totally new API called Win32 that Win 3.11 didn't know. You couldn't run a Win 95 app on Win 3.11, just no way to do it. So an upgrade was a necessary step if you wanted to use new apps. Now every subequent Windows version with the exception of Windows XP 64-bit (which is out) uses Win32 at it's nominal API. It hasn't even really changed much since Win 95. That mean you don't have to upgrade, you can use your old Windows and still run new software.
Now for Win 2000, there was more of a reason to upgrade. Being based on the NT core it give more security and stability than Win 95/98/ME. However it has support for DirectX, which was teh major thing lacking in NT4. Hence, it's a good upgrade no matter which you are comming from. You don't have to upgrade, new programs still work fine on the older systems (well DirectX stuff doesn't work under NT4 of course), but there is good reason to.
However XP is just a refinement of 2000. It's offical version is NT5.1 (2000 is 5.0). It offers a few new things, but at it's core is no different from 2000. Basically it offers you:
--Driver rollback, nice if you are prone to install beta drivers and break your system.
--Remote desktop, for if you are too cheap/lazy to install TightVNC or Remote Administrator (it is faster than both but still).
--Skinnable interface, if you like that kind of thing.
--Builtin firewall, again if you're too lazy to get Tiny Personal Firewall.
--VESA support, so it will run over 640x480x16 even without a video driver.
--Built-in support for zipfiles.
--The ability to switch user accoutns and leave programs running.
This isn't an exhaustive list, there's more, but you get the idea. Little changes that make things a little better. If you get a new system, you might as well get it. IF you have 2000 already, no need to upgrade.
Here lies a Mac OS ninth in its line Its only survivor is doing just fine.
Et tu, Jobs?
All Macs go to heaven.
Please add your own Epitaphs for Mac OS 9, my only friend in the world. *sniff* I'm going to miss you, buddy!
I just don't get it. Mac OS X app and GUI performance is painful compared to OS 9, on any of the G3 and G4 boxes I've tried. Quartz Extreme addresses only the newest hardware. Why is Apple promoting a downgrade in performance?
Apple had a couple hardware products code named Jaguar before. At least one predates the PowerPC and and the Atari Jaguar.
I've only owned a Mac since March last year :D
But I've seen that OS X 10.0 was faster than OS X beta, and 10.0.4 was faster than 10.0. and 10.1 was faster than 10.0.4, and 10.1.4 was faster still (at least Sherlock, AppleWorks, and iTunes)
The problem is that there are two classes of optimizations within the PPC camp; taking advantage of the large register space and larger cache, which applies to both G3s and G4s, and taking advantage of AltiVec, which applies to only G4s.
Still, there's reason to believe that the 10.2 release will be faster than the 10.1 release if nothing else due to gcc compiler optimizations as well as better threading and code optimizations throughout the OS.
GPL Deconstructed
"Jobs cited example of multiple Macs working at home sharing MP3 files with iTunes between multiple computers. Demonstrated example of MP3 files streaming over AirPort."
Holy Heck! Is Jobs deliberately trying to piss off the recording industry?
(FX: Dramatic music)
Apple's gonna be in trouble now...
nice use of incentive as a verb, first time I've seen that. I'm not being sarcastic, that was cool.
...with Apple on this one. I don't think they should have completely canned OS 9 yet. I think they could have announced that there would be no further feature upgrades (leaving the room for massive fsckup fixing upgrades if needed). But they should have still committed to some support of it, like in Classic Mode. Honestly I really really really hate OS X. It has the potential to be cool. For a new user or a M$ convert, it probably is cool. It's not for me. I'm a Classic Mac & Linux guru; I know Solaris pretty well. I can jack with Irix and make it do what I need. Mac OS X is nothing like any of the above, including the Classic Mac. It's soo damned weird! It has BSD underpinnings clouded by all the shit Apple did to it to make it look unique (and it does). The GUI doesn't even resemble the Classic Mac GUI. They lost all the good points about the Mac GUI. Nothing confuses me more (expect perhaps women) than Mac OS X. 10.2 had better make OS X more Mac-like or I'll be switching to Linux.
I have been running OSX on our office's server and its like a rock, it never, ok, hardly ever crashes despite being on 24/7. I have been reluctant to switch the "digitally challenged" secretaries and lawyers in our office over, they are still using OS 9, we did buy and install OSX for their Macs, so we can make the switch when all new software is OSX, I dread the retraining, but it will have to be done. Not that OSX is hard to use, its just that people get used to doing things a certain way.
You can enter text via keyboard faster than handwriting EVERY day of the week. Get with the times Apple, nobody but idiot managers want handwriting software.
Whoops, here comes my boss...
"You never did, The Kenosha Kid"
There was a palette of the old pizzabox 6100's at the flea market behind the Trenton Computer Fair (which is now in Edison, NJ in case you went looking
They were right next to the Sun Pizzaboxes which went for as little as 5 bucks each if you bought in quantity.
In case people are looking for it, here's a link to a story describing the funeral along with a link to the video itself. It's pretty amusing.
Not designed for 2D? VGL maybe.
OpenGL is "ONLY" 2D. Seriously, all of the magic of OpenGL occurs in 2D buffers:
* a color buffer (where all of the display colors are drawn)
* a depth buffer (used to effectively handle most of the "3D" work by magically doing all of the intersections and stuff for us)
* a host of other useful buffers (accumulation buffers, generic buffers that you can do whatever you want to with).
All 3D functions work by drawing the 3D object in 2D in a buffer. All of the 3D magic happens due to the depth buffer (each pixel has it's distance from the camera stored in a depth buffer, thus you magically get hidden face removal, intersection, yada yada yada). Heck, you can even control how the new drawing gets composited into the buffer.
Still, the point is that you have all of the 2D functions you could need (well, between GL and GLU).
If you can find them on the net, SGI has some OpenGL manpages. They are quite useful.
Basically, you get high speed line drawing/filling, accelerated blit operations (including things like XOR, and other weird ones), and you upload pictures by dumping uncompressed RGBA (note the ALPHA channel, this is supremely useful, it's even 8-bit!). For the masochist-optimizer, there are even various types of curve functions (bezier anyone?). All of this makes it a really good GL (graphics library?). Oh, and there is also support (although it's in GLU or maybe even the GLUT) for text (scalable vector and raster!).
Not only is the 2D good, but it looks really cool when you overlay 2D graphics (some with alpha) on top of your 3D . . . but I digress . . .
I think Mauve has the most RAM. --PHB (Dilbert Comic)
How the hell can we get VGS to work?
Sony are damn bastards for buying them out, then shelving it, that action should be illegal.
Inkwell is probably the most significant addition any software developer could provide as an operating system addition. This has the potential to be the most important change in user interfaces since the GUI.
Why? Because an extremely large percentage of the world's population does not use the Roman alphabet. Think about how revolutionary it would be for Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, etc. people to be able to interface with computers in their native languages. All the klunky hacks for using keyboards to type in one of 65,000 different characters are no longer necessary.
(This is actually something I was just thinking about playing Ragnarok Online where more than half the people don't speak English natively.)
So we just have to see if Inkwell is made available for the foreign language features of Mac OS X. Hopefully it will, because so far Apple's been very good about supporting many different languages simultaneously in Mac OS X.
I noticed a side note on Apple Jaguar page that in addition to GCC3 and other GNU tools they are also including CUPS printing support. Very cool! The work that Apple is doing with opensource tools can only be good. The changes and improvements they make in things like CUPS, GCC and things like Apache can only make it better.
Its so cold out here w/ my beige G3 and blue & white G3 (well, G4 now). Damn my Rage Pro graphics! They offer NO accelleration of ANYTHING in OS X! QuickTime and OpenGL are JOKES on a beige G3.
...
Do you think they'd try to at least remedy this somewhat in jaguar?
No, now they've gone and said that, whoops, well, sorry, the promised performance of Mac OS X will only be available to those customers who buy a computer from us in about 6 months, thus rendering even my Radeon 7000 (Because it is PCI) useless.
I think apple should sell mobo upgrades to all the computer owners who hoped they'd one day see OS X run reasonably well on hardware they've been upgrading for years trying to figure out when the hell apple would release a finished product.
Oh, sure, wait for the G5. But by the time that's out, you'll need a G6 to actually USE any applications. And that's another year away
same sh*t, different day
I found it extremely interesting that AOL has evidently given their blessing to iChat, making it the first external client to be offcially endorsed by AOL for operation on their network. Nice to see AOL sort of playing a little nice with a single other entity in IM space. I don't know if iChat will support any other systems however. If not, I'll be sticking with Fire.
Do not touch -Willie
Come on; that was funny!
If you like the Mac's OS X handwriting recognition, some of the very engineers behind Apple's discontinued Newton PDA (where InkWell's handwriting recognition was born) are currently at work on the next generation of more powerful handwriting recognition at a company I've been following, called Pen&Internet. Last month the company unveiled its riteScript handwriting recognition technology that accurately recognizes unrestricted English handwriting in any style. They even let you demo riteScript online, to try it out for yourself, click here, http://pi.parascript.com/piweb/products/ritescript / scr_demo.asp