"You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. None. Whatsoever."
Really! You are now down to name calling. That says a lot about you.
I am glad you at least admitted about the PS1 having some better 3d support. For a system that was around 1/4 less expensive at launch, that says a lot.
Also, I know remember why most people didn't like Sega fans.
"Anyway the simple fact is that Sega had a winner with the dreamcast and could have made a comeback, but Sony outright lied about their hardware specifications deliberately in order to destroy sales of the dreamcast. Sony should get nailed for fraud on that one."
come on guy. Just rewind time a bit and you can replace Sony with Nintendo.
Nintendo showed EVERYONE the CD/Graphics update for the Super Nintendo for YEARS! They had all these specs that showed it was 32bit and it would crush Sega. The difference was that Sony actually delivered a product and Nintendo lied to it's customers. The other HUGE difference that you seem to be missing is that the Sega unit was great a moving pixles around put lacked any 3d support. Thus it was very good at 2d based games but wasn't in the same league as the PS1 for 3d. This was a mistake that Sega admitted and they didn't think the world was going 3d at a time when everyone else was still thinking about moving pixles around a 2d space. Does this sound familiar? Kind of sounds like people that say HD and extra disk capacity don't matter.
So all these guys that are now jumping on the Nintendo isn't that bad bandwagon just seem to HATE Sony and they are too young to remember what Nintendo did to Sega and Atari.
As far as Sony killing Nintendo, remember that Nintendo controlled around 90% of the console market for years and then Sega made a small dent, but Sony came in to the market and took control.
Sony wanted complete control over every game? You must be living in a fantasy world. All Sony wanted to do was produce a CD/Graphics adapter for the Super Nintendo. It took an act of God for them to actually produce a machine. They didn't want anything to do with content or game control.
Here is a short summary. Nintendo and Sega had a war going on for many years, and Nintendo went to Sony to produce a CD add on to their current console. They did this because Sega released a CD version of a console and they needed to show their customers that Nintendo could do the same thing. There were a ton of pictures of the device and then they even said it would improve the graphics of the Nintendo. So a lot of customers bought in to the fact that Nintendo was "just about ready" to release a add on to their console and Sega sales started to tank. Sega then rushed to market another console and that pissed off the current Sega fans and the damage was done. Nintendo then realized that they didn't need to release the CD add on and dropped their relations with Sony.
Ah, but that is where the history gets interesting. Sony decided that since they produced a machine with better graphics and a CD player that it wouldn't be that hard to produce the rest of the unit. Heck they really didn't need the connector to the superN anyway. The problem was that nobody within Sony would sponsor the system. luckily for Sony one division did and thus the PS1 was born. It must be noted that Nintendo NEVER had any intention of releasing the CD add on, but wanted the consumers to not purchase a Sega system.
Nintendo awoke a sleeping giant in Sony and it never would have happened without Nintendo trying to screw Sega.
I could also go on about Nintendo's anti-violence game strategy that they use to have. Well they had it until Mortal Kombat came out and their sales started to suffer.
I realize that there are a ton of Nintendo fanboys out there, that don't believe Nintendo would ever do anything evil, but they are one of the most evil companies around. It is absolutely funny to see Sony killing them now after all the crap they have done.
Are you serious about not supporting Sony and then turn around and support Microsoft?
Lets see now.
The PS3 will not only run but have a company support Linux on it. It will run a subset of OpenGL and thus offer better migration to OSX and Linux for games. It will offer an open solution to Internet.
But, if you want to support Microsoft then that is your option. I mean they have never done anything unethical.
Then again you could just go to Nintento. They would never do anything unethical... just ask Atari and Sega....
Ok, the real thing here is that Novell is all for the use of MONO and.NET. Microsoft likes that idea and will try and write some apps that currently will work with the.NET framwork that Novell has going for it now with SuSE 10.x. So it technically would be possible to buy a Microsoft app and run it on a Novell server. Will anyone do this?
How many organizations want to run a.NET app on anything but Windows?
Honestly how many.NET developers out there that want to target Linux?
Now, how many Java developers out there that develop and use Linux?
Most people would agree that there is around 1000 Java developers using Linux to every.Net developer, yet Novell appears to have an infatuation with.NET. Yet Novell seems to want to make Linux a.NET server at all cost.
To be honest I really like SuSE 9ES and OpenSuSE 10 (for home), and I have for the most part overlooked the tools that now require.NET to work with SuSE, but I can only imagine that this is going to get far worse, and at some point I will have to switch distros because of Novells desire to become this "sub Vista" operating system.
So the truth is that you won't see Microsoft write some cool application in Java or PHP or even C, but in C#, and it will somewhat work on SuSE 10.x or 11, then break with one "Windows Update". Of course nobody will ever use it in production except a handful of people, so it really won't matter.
Novell isn't doing much here and neither is Microsoft. The only "good" this might do is make MONO better, but given it's track record that shouldn't be hard to accomplish.
Poor Novell, they use to be a great company, and now they are reduced to begging Microsoft for applications. Just think what they could have done if they would have GPL'd NDS back in 1993. It could have become the defacto standard by now. Ahh, but you guys can at least open source all those cool.NET apps you have that nobody cares about.
"I think Sony has pushed a lot of fence-sitters into the 360 and Wii camps."
Really. From where I sit there are a few types of people that buy consoles.
1. Nintendo fans - The 10 and under crowd. They love Mario and want a system that they know their young kids will play. These people have no intention of buying a $500 PS3 or even a $300 PS3.
2. XBOX fans - They already bought a 360 and given that less than 10 million sold with a year head start this console looks bleak at best. Unfortunately for Microsoft they are the middle child in this race. They don't have the kids games and they don't have the power/storage of the PS3. I would argue that a lot of these fans will also buy a PS3, but it will be late next year, and they are waiting on a price drop.
3. Sony Fans - They will buy the PS3 at $1,500. However, how many will do that remains a question. Currently it appears that a ton want to, given the prices on Ebay. However, Sony is due to produce 6 million consoles by March of 2007, and their game lineup looks strong. The big question is this. After the 6 million units are sold will the average family drop $500 on a PS3? Time will tell, but these initial fans don't mind waiting until after Christmas to get the PS3, they see it as a value and want "the best console".
4. Budget gamers - These people says things like "My kid won't be getting a XYZ console if it cost $300+ dollars. Well, they fall in to the PS2 camp then. That console is at $130 now and has a ton of games for it. Heck it is still the number one selling console out and probably will be the number one selling console again this Christmas. Yes I know that the Wii is $250, but by the time you add up another controller and games you are over the $300 mark.
5. Every console buyers- these guys will buy every console, and probably have a PC with at least a $500 to $800 video card(s) in it. These guys generally trash the PS3 price but yet have no problem spending $800 on a new video card just to play Oblivion. These guys are few and far between but they are there. They will buy the Wii this Christmas, trash the PS3 and Sony, then buy one with MGS4 or Vision GT next year.
So the way I see it, those that want a PS3 this year and until March will be the type 3 people mentioned above. They will not buy a Wii or a 360. Will there be enough of them to sell 6 million units at $500 to $600 a piece? Well the research done has shown that there is demand for $8 million PS3's at it's current price point, so it looks like Sony will be good for their 6 million. Will Sony lower the price by next Christmas? Well they have shown that they are willing to do that by the price drop in Japan, so I would say definitely. So when the real battle begins next Christmas you could have the Nintendo at $250, and the 360 somewhere in the middle and the PS3 one price drop away from making the 360 irrelevant.
I would say that Microsoft has a lot to worry about.
"If I had to pick one, i'd pick the one that was the most fun to play)."
Yep, you and I agree on that one. Now with two consoles having significantly more processing power and far better graphics than the Wii, which one do you think will be better?
"So I hit gamerankings.com for the top 10 games..."
Of all the "next gen" systems only the 360 is out and it's numbers are low. It only has 4 million units out now. Take a look at the reviews of Tony Hawk for the Wii and the PS3. Also understand that few game mags want to rip any one console. Marvel Ultimate Alliance is another game that would be great for comparison. It uses the Wii controller and the 6 axis controller, both are fun, but one looks very sharp (on HDTV, awesome on 1080P), and the other looks "good".
"As far as your stats - I have to assume they are made up"
Look at the last 10 years of Nintendo and prove me wrong.
"Look, I'm going to buy either an Xbox or PS3 at some point in the future"
Cool, and I may buy a Wii for Mario and other kids games, but at least be honest and say that with most cross platform games (everything else being equal) you would go for the HD version of the game. Thus most EA games you will probably want to get the PS3 version.
"Anyway, you seem to have some strong opinions on this (okay, im guilty too), and I doubt that I'm going to change your mind - or you mine.:)"
Cool and good luck with the Wii. I honestly do think it looks like a cool console, and strongly considered it for my family (yes I have a 10 an under child). You would probably be shocked to know that it is the console that I heavily recommend for people who have no intention of getting a HDTV in the near future but for whatever reason want to drop many hundreds of dollars on a new game console. (Weird now that HDTV is somewhat affordable).
"Sorry bub, but the whole Nintendo = kiddies arguement is just not true."
Really? Just look at the demographics of EVERY Nintendo system in the last 10 years and prove me wrong. The Wii has gotten a bunch of great press, yet the top games for it are still the same as every other Nintendo. Zelda, Mario etc...
Honestly sit down and compare Tony Hawk on the PS3, 360 and Wii and tell me which one you as a 29 year old would want to play. Lets look at a few other games like: Madden - Why would you want the Wii version? Marvel Ultimate Alliance - This is a unique title because the developers tweaked it for each console, yet again why would anyone over the age of 10 want to play the Wii version over the PS3?
Honestly, I could go on and on, but it will come back to the same old argument. The Wii is cheaper, and has Mario, Zelda and other KIDS games. The PS3 has a HD, BlueRay, 1080P, better internet and a bunch more "mature" video games.
"Sorry bub, but the whole Nintendo = kiddies argument is just TRUE After two years of this console being on the market well over 75% of the purchases will be for families with kids 10 and under. What has Nintendo done to change? A new controller? You can't be serious.
Lets see. If you want a PS3 you had to wait in a line for at least 2 hours in advance at EB or you had to wait a 36 hours in advance at TrU to get a pre-order.
PS3 pre-orders are selling for over $1,400.00 on Ebay.
Sony just confirmed that they are on target to get 6 million units out by March.
Nintendo's launch partner is Toys R Us, and just today (Sunday Oct 29th 2006), most Toys R Us announced that they will only be taking 20 or so Wii pre-orders. GameStop and EB games actually took around the same number of Wii pre-orders as PS3's. So it looks like Nintendo "may" be having some manufacturing issues. If they were not having any issues, companies like Toys R Us should have around 50 to 100 pre-orders of Wii's.
So what is the largest issue that prevents most people from wanting a PS3. The price, and Sony has shown that they will lower that when needed (Japan PS3 price is ~$430). It isn't inconceivable that Sony won't offer some "Gold" pack with a game in the summer of 2007 for the same price as the current PS3's now and then lower the price by next Christmas for a basic console.
Now there is the whole BlueRay, HD-DVD thing. There isn't even 50k units of HD-DVD players out on the market and it looks like the manufacturing of BluRay will be helped out considerably by 6 million units being produced, not to mention that there will be 6 million BlueRay players out there. If you were a content provider which one would you produce for? It is also not a mistake that Sony is going to include a BlueRay movie with the first 500k PS3's. They want people to try it as a movie player.
I would say the future looks very bright for the PS3 and Sony. There are obviously a bunch of people willing to pay $1,400.00+ now on Ebay, and it appears that there are at least 6 million people in the world that will pay the list price to get one, and after that Sony can decide if they need to lower the price or not. I would say Nintendo fans need to worry a little bit about their launch numbers this year, but with Mario and such the own the 10 and under crowd, and it will do around the same as the gamecube. Not to slam the Wii, but to a lot of people see the Wii as just a gamecube 1.5 with a new controller. Now the real company that will be hurt is Microsoft. They haven't hit 5 million 360 units out yet, and the PS2 still out sells it month after month. That isn't good news for them and they are one price drop away from being all but shut down in new sales. It appears that it was a HUGE mistake for them to not include HD-DVD in the system and setting 720P as their "preferred" resolution. The way I see it, Microsoft could lower the price of the 360 to $100 by next Christmas and it probably wouldn't change their fate. It sucks to be in the "middle" of the console wars. The Nintendo (10 and under) fans will buy a Wii and the 11 and older crowd will want a PS3. I fully expect a Xbox 3 within 3 years, or I expect Microsoft to get out of the gaming world. They have a lot of battles going on, and they only have so many resources...
If you are a sub 15 person company couldn't Fedora or OpenSuSE work well for you? You get everything for free and the GUI isn't bad at all. The other advantage is that the sub 15 person company loves to use the server as a "workstation" also. You would loose that temptation with Linux.
The other advantage is that you don't EVER have to worry about CALs. It seems to me that the only real advantage that Microsoft would have would be that it has AD. Granted it isn't a true directory, but it can provide a more simplified admin console. In your case though, you wouldn't really see any advantage of a directory service with so few users.
Lets say I have a 2,000 person company and I want the following services on as little boxes as I can get by with.
File/Print Web server/application server - both internal and external Database server (to house custom shopping cart style web application + internal apps) Content Management Server Email + Scheduling Development Tools General support, say 8:00am to 5:00pm type of stuff. Virtual System support, so the company can have a "test" and "development" environment. Virus control for the server Virus control for email Spam software for email.
I would be curious to see the Microsoft offering on this. Every time we do a comparison Linux comes out on top. Granted, we don't use RedHat any more, but I would imagine we would get the $350 a year version if we needed to.
Again,I would like to know the prices that you are getting, and what if any leverage you have with Microsoft. I can say that since we switched off of Microsoft we have never looked back and other than a few weird issues with some crappy hardware, we haven't had any major issues. Our cost have gone down. The freedom alone of not having to go to finance to get approval of projects that "need" to be done is worth our migration alone. Again, I want to state that we didn't choose RedHat, but at least we had a choice.
I can't find the link, and again, I personally don't care how well or bad Nintendo does. I somewhat hope they do well and it puts pressure on Sony to lower their price, but finding anyone who will say ANYTHING bad about the Wii and not be torn apart on the web is difficult.
However the fact remains that the average Gamestop/EB didn't have as many preorders as PS3's. If I was a Nintendo fan I would be very worried about that. Now perhaps there is a great explanation for it, and this is a non issue, but again if I was a fan and missed out on the preorder today then I would probably be getting ready to camp out when they hit Best Buy or one of the other stores that don't take preorders.
The way I see it is this. The PS3 and Wii sell to pretty much the same distribution channel. The PS3 has 400k units on it's first ship day. The Nintendo supposedly has 2 MILLION. So there should be around 5X as many Wii as PS3's at their launch. Now some have said that Nintendo is actually ahead of schedule, but I will go with Nintendo's latest estimate. GameStop/EB had 8 or 16 PS3's per store for their preorder. Given the math above it isn't unreasonable to expect there to be at least 2X that number for Wii, yet we know that isn't the case. Heck, by the math above it isn't unresonable to expect 5X or 40 to 80 Wii preorders available. This obviously wasn't the case, and begs the quesiton of why?
Again, I am not bashing the Nintendo and personally like the system. I am not a fan of low resolution games and the $60+ weird controller, but the kids games on Nintendo rock. They flat out own the 10 and under crowd and their launch titles for that market looks as strong as ever. The Zelda game sounds great and I am sure that the Nintendo fans will enjoy their console, but the math needs to be explained. I will say that if I planned on getting a Nintendo Wii this year I would be somewhat concerned, and the only thing on the Wii console that would require any non standard or new engineering is the controller. So "if" there is an issue with the manufacturing then it isn't unreasonable to believe it points to the controller.
"My local EB is one of the top 10 in the nation, they got 16 PS3s. But they only got 12 Wiis. Doesn't make any sense, but I was #4 so it's all good. =)"
It was the same here in Indianapolis. The EB store I called only got 4 Nintendos and they got 15 PS3s. I was lucky enough to be #7 for the PS3, and I personally don't want a new Nintendo, but this tells me that the shipments of Nintendo will probably be less than was told.
This started me thinking some more. I heard that the Wii was having some major issues with their new controller. Specifically they have issues with sunlight and florescent lights. Now finding any bad news about Nintendo is hard because of the number of fanboys out there, but it doesn't shock me that they might have some issues with it. Nintendo, much like Sony tends to overestimate what they can actually deliver and it isn't outside the realm of possibility that they are having issues. "If" Nintendo truely has 2 million consoles ready for launch then each gamestop should have had around 25 units or more. Yet none in this area had more than 8.
I am beginning to think that I should have stood in line to put a Wii up on Ebay.
Either way, congrats on getting you box and I hope you have fun with it. I am cheesed about my PS3 and can't wait to get it. Hopefully I can get my new 1080P TV by then also.:-)
I was in total agreement until your last sentence. "know almost nobody who is a PC fanboi, its just a solution that gets the job done in a decent manner."
Man, you must not know the people I know. The PC/Microsoft guys are the biggest homers/fanboys I know. The ones I know will say things like "I like Linux and OSX" until you start to replace some of their machines with Linux and or OSX. Then suddenly they show their true colors. Heck, I know a TON of shops that say things like "Our standard is Oracle,Apache,Websphere.(pick non Microsoft product here), and they will not let you bring in any other product at all. Then you start to look at it and say "wait a second, isn't that SQL server and IIS over there?" The answer is usually "Yeah, but that is Microsoft".
Trust me the fanboys of Microsoft/X86 are no different than others except that companies are not currently removing their stuff (yet). The ones I have migrated off of Windows and on to Linux have gone well on the technical end, but the political end has been a different story. One company in particular even had one of it's customers try and mandate that they use Windows. I won't go in to detail here but that would be like you telling your bank that they must run OS2 or Amiga. The "customer" shouldn't have given a rats ass, but somehow their "fanboys" at this company cared about Microsoft enough to try and stop this company from migrating. Now I want to say that the migration went very well and after that political mess any thought of switching back to Windows is out of the question. Heck the new I.T. guys love Linux/Open Source now and contrary to popular belief they don't cost any more than the "Windows" guy because they are the SAME people. I won't say that they don't miss some things, but overall they love the fact that they can do so much stuff for FREE and they get to actually think and add value as opposed to just be an operational cost. Specifically, they want to upgrade they can by just budgeting their time. Anyway I am getting off topic here, but trust me the Windows fanboys are like the Mafia, they are there and they are not a myth. They just don't come out until you threaten them.
One last jab at Microsoft. The cost savings alone in licensing at that company could have paid for another support person, and that was the ace in the hole that I never had to use.
You know I actually thought about it and I shouldn't have mentioned he is/was Jewish. However I say that because of his somewhat regular "satire" against Christians and specifically Catholics. But I agree that I shouldn't have mentioned it.
I want to also state that he is caucasian . Did I say anything bad about him being a Caucasian? Nope, but if he had a somewhat regular "satire" piece on say Chinese people then stating he is caucasion does make some sense. That is where I was comming from, but even with that you are correct I didn't need to mention it. I should have just mentioned his "satire" of Christianity and to a much smaller degree religion in general.
Now I hope that you understand why I mentioned he is a Liberal. I want to be clear though in no means did I say that Jewish or even Liberals can't and are not patriots.
I did not say that. I also do not mean to imply that. However when John Stewart and the Daily Show attack Christians and conservatives this needs to be brought in to light.
"Stewart also regularly pokes at Democrats and other "liberals" The Republicans are in power and thus deserve and get more of his attention."
His show does NOT regularly blast Democrats and other "liberals".
Wow, I normally don't reply to myelf, but to marked a troll for saying that some people don't view John Stewart as a Patriot... Not using any profanities in my post, not attacking him personally and yet still marked a troll within an hour. I do find it ironic that John Stewart turns to personal insults when confronted about his own show, yet I don't in a post and still get marked as a troll:-)
I guess Slashdot has gone the way of Digg.
Lets see now I should say something like the following to get modded up... Liberalism and socialism are good. Apple is good Linux is good. Freedom of speech is good unless you disagree with Liberal causes. Religion is ok unless it is Christianity, then you must keep it quiet. DRM is bad The PS3 is bad and graphics don't matter in a game. Heck we still play pong.
Come on moderators do you even read the articles or just base your votes if you "agree" with the post, and note if it makes valid points.
I think too many Digg users have made it over to Slashdot.
He is a Jewish Liberal. You may find that he is a "true patriot" but others may not. Heck even his writers admit that they are liberal.
Truthfully, he is someone who has a TV show that knows his demographics and makes sure his show caters to that market. He is no different than Rush, except that he occasionally has segments on Democrats. The other small difference between the two is that John hides behind "political satire" when confronted with real questions about his show. So he tries to make political points and send out a liberal message, while at the same time saying the show is just "political satire".
So again, you say he is a "true patriot". Some others say he is politically motivated, while others say he is just smart and has targeted a market of people that puts food on the table for him. I personally look at some of the "true patriots" of America, and honestly don't see John Stewart on the list, then again I very seldom watch his show, and don't know what he does outside of his show. Perhaps he donates a ton of time and money to his church, or helped in other charities... somehow though I believe that you think he is a patriot just because of his constant attacks on an administration you hate.
Lastly, have you ever heard Julia Carson speak? If you don't understand my question then you probably get your "news" from the Daily Show and CNN.
Well "YOU" may stop listening to me, and that is ok, but when the demographics of the Wii come in and they are almost all going to familes with kids at least one child under 10, then this system will be just like the cube, 64, and super. Why exactly do you think it will be any different this time?
Nintendo - best graphics? Nope, not even close. Nintendo - best processor? Nope, not even close. Nintendo - best sound? Nope. Nintendo - best price after you buy 4 controllers? Possibly, but not by much.
Now... Nintendo - Mario, Pokemon, Zelda exclusive? Yes. Nintendo one year out - 100 freaking Mario type games for kids? Yep.
Again, I ask what has changed to suddenly make the 11-30 year old want a Wii over a 360 or PS3? The controller...
Well if only 8% of the people care about "tilt" controllers then that is bad news for the Wii that uses it as it's main advantage over the other next gen systems.
All kidding aside...
This type of stuff is nonsense, when the system is out and great games are out for it that will drive sales. A rumble joystick will not hurt or help a game like Resistance Fall of Man. The controller does have a small part in that it can't suck, but few do, except perhaps the new Nintendo one, and even if that proves to be a fad, people on the Wii will just start to use the "clasic" one.
In short Nintendo has Mario and other games for 10 and under. Their market is all but locked up. Microsoft has their online setup very well and they have a small following now. Sony is definately the high end system of the bunch and will own the high end gamers this version of the console war. The fanboys alone will buy the first 10 million units. Then Sony has to decide if they need to lower their price or not. Their controler has little to nothing to do with their outcome.
"Anyway, these people are going to keep trotting out Betamax because they won't forget being screwed. You can complain or rationalize all day long but you're not going to change their opinions or their use of Betamax as a bad example. Ever. They're ossified."
Yep, and I mentioned in detail the difference this time. Content providers, using their near monopoly of games consoles to cement the standard AND the ability to do such large scale manufacturing that the cost will eventually be for BluRay.
"Sure, some technophiles just gotta have 1080p, but most muggles can barely tell the difference in video between 700i and 1080p."
I agree, but then I look at 1080P and it blows away both 1080i and 720P. These are two different discussions. A game at 1280X720 will not look as good as a game at 1920X1080 on anything bigger than a 23" monitor. Now you seem to have missed the Nintendo resolution of 480i. Those games will be below 800X600. So in short a game like Madden could look the best on the PS3, then the 360 then the Wii. Obviously there is a ton more than graphics in a game, but if the engine supports all those resolutions, and you have the ability to pay in any of them, most people will pick the PS3. It will definately make a difference in people buying TV's over the next few years, and 1080P will become the norm of new TV's.
"There were lots of factors that drove Joe Q. Average from VHS to DVD. " Yep and it took a while, but have you seen a 1080P picture on a 1080P set. If not go to Fry's and take a look, then compare it to a 720P signal. You will be amazed at the difference.
"This time around, the difference is just not that big to the average consumer. " Once they see it, and they will see it and when they go an buy their new TV they will start asking for it. Heck even the sales guys are starting to preach it, and the cost difference is slowly becomming a non issue.
"predict they'll sell a handful of PS3s to some rich fanbois and early adopters"
Sony will easily sell 6 million units by April of next year. 6 million! By that time the HD-DVD/BluRay war is over. Heck it will be over on Nov 17th with 400k units in the U.S.
So Sony will have a machine that can download content. All systems have a HD. They will have the ability to protect content via HDMI on all PS3's. They will have a 50GB storage capacity for games. Their competiton has 9GB. They will have a controller that also has motion sensing.
Now the one part, and this is a huge part is they have a large price tag. The "average" gamer won't drop $500 on a console at this time, (Japan it will be $420). So, my prediction is that Sony will sell to the fanboys out there this year and they will pay a premium. Then by next Christmas the console will be $100 less. Perhaps even more. This is when life gets very interesting for Microsoft and to some degree Nintendo. When (not if), the price difference between the systems narrows the difference in hardware starts to become more and more of an issue. One huge price cut on the PS3 and the 360 is all but dead in the water. Nintedo has Mario and the 10 and under crowd, so they will be buffered, but I don't believe Halo 3,4,5 will be enough for the 360.
So the 10 million or so 360 owners out there will kind of be screwed because the life of the 360 is all but one good price cut away.
Slashdot Mirror
"You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. None. Whatsoever."
Really! You are now down to name calling. That says a lot about you.
I am glad you at least admitted about the PS1 having some better 3d support. For a system that was around 1/4 less expensive at launch, that says a lot.
Also, I know remember why most people didn't like Sega fans.
"Anyway the simple fact is that Sega had a winner with the dreamcast and could have made a comeback, but Sony outright lied about their hardware specifications deliberately in order to destroy sales of the dreamcast. Sony should get nailed for fraud on that one."
come on guy. Just rewind time a bit and you can replace Sony with Nintendo.
Nintendo showed EVERYONE the CD/Graphics update for the Super Nintendo for YEARS! They had all these specs that showed it was 32bit and it would crush Sega. The difference was that Sony actually delivered a product and Nintendo lied to it's customers. The other HUGE difference that you seem to be missing is that the Sega unit was great a moving pixles around put lacked any 3d support. Thus it was very good at 2d based games but wasn't in the same league as the PS1 for 3d. This was a mistake that Sega admitted and they didn't think the world was going 3d at a time when everyone else was still thinking about moving pixles around a 2d space. Does this sound familiar? Kind of sounds like people that say HD and extra disk capacity don't matter.
So all these guys that are now jumping on the Nintendo isn't that bad bandwagon just seem to HATE Sony and they are too young to remember what Nintendo did to Sega and Atari.
As far as Sony killing Nintendo, remember that Nintendo controlled around 90% of the console market for years and then Sega made a small dent, but Sony came in to the market and took control.
Sony wanted complete control over every game? You must be living in a fantasy world. All Sony wanted to do was produce a CD/Graphics adapter for the Super Nintendo. It took an act of God for them to actually produce a machine. They didn't want anything to do with content or game control.
You must have a selective memory.
Here is a short summary.
Nintendo and Sega had a war going on for many years, and Nintendo went to Sony to produce a CD add on to their current console. They did this because Sega released a CD version of a console and they needed to show their customers that Nintendo could do the same thing. There were a ton of pictures of the device and then they even said it would improve the graphics of the Nintendo. So a lot of customers bought in to the fact that Nintendo was "just about ready" to release a add on to their console and Sega sales started to tank. Sega then rushed to market another console and that pissed off the current Sega fans and the damage was done. Nintendo then realized that they didn't need to release the CD add on and dropped their relations with Sony.
Ah, but that is where the history gets interesting. Sony decided that since they produced a machine with better graphics and a CD player that it wouldn't be that hard to produce the rest of the unit. Heck they really didn't need the connector to the superN anyway. The problem was that nobody within Sony would sponsor the system. luckily for Sony one division did and thus the PS1 was born. It must be noted that Nintendo NEVER had any intention of releasing the CD add on, but wanted the consumers to not purchase a Sega system.
Nintendo awoke a sleeping giant in Sony and it never would have happened without Nintendo trying to screw Sega.
I could also go on about Nintendo's anti-violence game strategy that they use to have. Well they had it until Mortal Kombat came out and their sales started to suffer.
I realize that there are a ton of Nintendo fanboys out there, that don't believe Nintendo would ever do anything evil, but they are one of the most evil companies around. It is absolutely funny to see Sony killing them now after all the crap they have done.
The PS3 is near silent.
Are you serious about not supporting Sony and then turn around and support Microsoft?
Lets see now.
The PS3 will not only run but have a company support Linux on it.
It will run a subset of OpenGL and thus offer better migration to OSX and Linux for games.
It will offer an open solution to Internet.
But, if you want to support Microsoft then that is your option. I mean they have never done anything unethical.
Then again you could just go to Nintento. They would never do anything unethical... just ask Atari and Sega....
Ok, the real thing here is that Novell is all for the use of MONO and .NET. Microsoft likes that idea and will try and write some apps that currently will work with the .NET framwork that Novell has going for it now with SuSE 10.x. So it technically would be possible to buy a Microsoft app and run it on a Novell server. Will anyone do this?
.NET app on anything but Windows?
.NET developers out there that want to target Linux?
.Net developer, yet Novell appears to have an infatuation with .NET. Yet Novell seems to want to make Linux a .NET server at all cost.
.NET to work with SuSE, but I can only imagine that this is going to get far worse, and at some point I will have to switch distros because of Novells desire to become this "sub Vista" operating system.
.NET apps you have that nobody cares about.
How many organizations want to run a
Honestly how many
Now, how many Java developers out there that develop and use Linux?
Most people would agree that there is around 1000 Java developers using Linux to every
To be honest I really like SuSE 9ES and OpenSuSE 10 (for home), and I have for the most part overlooked the tools that now require
So the truth is that you won't see Microsoft write some cool application in Java or PHP or even C, but in C#, and it will somewhat work on SuSE 10.x or 11, then break with one "Windows Update". Of course nobody will ever use it in production except a handful of people, so it really won't matter.
Novell isn't doing much here and neither is Microsoft. The only "good" this might do is make MONO better, but given it's track record that shouldn't be hard to accomplish.
Poor Novell, they use to be a great company, and now they are reduced to begging Microsoft for applications. Just think what they could have done if they would have GPL'd NDS back in 1993. It could have become the defacto standard by now. Ahh, but you guys can at least open source all those cool
"Or you could be completely fucking wrong on every count. Who knows?"
Couldn't you say that about every comment every made? Even the one you just made.
"I think Sony has pushed a lot of fence-sitters into the 360 and Wii camps."
Really. From where I sit there are a few types of people that buy consoles.
1. Nintendo fans - The 10 and under crowd. They love Mario and want a system that they know their young kids will play. These people have no intention of buying a $500 PS3 or even a $300 PS3.
2. XBOX fans - They already bought a 360 and given that less than 10 million sold with a year head start this console looks bleak at best. Unfortunately for Microsoft they are the middle child in this race. They don't have the kids games and they don't have the power/storage of the PS3. I would argue that a lot of these fans will also buy a PS3, but it will be late next year, and they are waiting on a price drop.
3. Sony Fans - They will buy the PS3 at $1,500. However, how many will do that remains a question. Currently it appears that a ton want to, given the prices on Ebay. However, Sony is due to produce 6 million consoles by March of 2007, and their game lineup looks strong. The big question is this. After the 6 million units are sold will the average family drop $500 on a PS3? Time will tell, but these initial fans don't mind waiting until after Christmas to get the PS3, they see it as a value and want "the best console".
4. Budget gamers - These people says things like "My kid won't be getting a XYZ console if it cost $300+ dollars. Well, they fall in to the PS2 camp then. That console is at $130 now and has a ton of games for it. Heck it is still the number one selling console out and probably will be the number one selling console again this Christmas. Yes I know that the Wii is $250, but by the time you add up another controller and games you are over the $300 mark.
5. Every console buyers- these guys will buy every console, and probably have a PC with at least a $500 to $800 video card(s) in it. These guys generally trash the PS3 price but yet have no problem spending $800 on a new video card just to play Oblivion. These guys are few and far between but they are there. They will buy the Wii this Christmas, trash the PS3 and Sony, then buy one with MGS4 or Vision GT next year.
So the way I see it, those that want a PS3 this year and until March will be the type 3 people mentioned above. They will not buy a Wii or a 360. Will there be enough of them to sell 6 million units at $500 to $600 a piece? Well the research done has shown that there is demand for $8 million PS3's at it's current price point, so it looks like Sony will be good for their 6 million. Will Sony lower the price by next Christmas? Well they have shown that they are willing to do that by the price drop in Japan, so I would say definitely. So when the real battle begins next Christmas you could have the Nintendo at $250, and the 360 somewhere in the middle and the PS3 one price drop away from making the 360 irrelevant.
I would say that Microsoft has a lot to worry about.
"If I had to pick one, i'd pick the one that was the most fun to play)."
:)"
Yep, you and I agree on that one. Now with two consoles having significantly more processing power and far better graphics than the Wii, which one do you think will be better?
"So I hit gamerankings.com for the top 10 games..."
Of all the "next gen" systems only the 360 is out and it's numbers are low. It only has 4 million units out now. Take a look at the reviews of Tony Hawk for the Wii and the PS3. Also understand that few game mags want to rip any one console. Marvel Ultimate Alliance is another game that would be great for comparison. It uses the Wii controller and the 6 axis controller, both are fun, but one looks very sharp (on HDTV, awesome on 1080P), and the other looks "good".
"As far as your stats - I have to assume they are made up"
Look at the last 10 years of Nintendo and prove me wrong.
"Look, I'm going to buy either an Xbox or PS3 at some point in the future"
Cool, and I may buy a Wii for Mario and other kids games, but at least be honest and say that with most cross platform games (everything else being equal) you would go for the HD version of the game. Thus most EA games you will probably want to get the PS3 version.
"Anyway, you seem to have some strong opinions on this (okay, im guilty too), and I doubt that I'm going to change your mind - or you mine.
Cool and good luck with the Wii. I honestly do think it looks like a cool console, and strongly considered it for my family (yes I have a 10 an under child). You would probably be shocked to know that it is the console that I heavily recommend for people who have no intention of getting a HDTV in the near future but for whatever reason want to drop many hundreds of dollars on a new game console. (Weird now that HDTV is somewhat affordable).
"Sorry bub, but the whole Nintendo = kiddies arguement is just not true."
Really? Just look at the demographics of EVERY Nintendo system in the last 10 years and prove me wrong. The Wii has gotten a bunch of great press, yet the top games for it are still the same as every other Nintendo. Zelda, Mario etc...
Honestly sit down and compare Tony Hawk on the PS3, 360 and Wii and tell me which one you as a 29 year old would want to play. Lets look at a few other games like:
Madden - Why would you want the Wii version?
Marvel Ultimate Alliance - This is a unique title because the developers tweaked it for each console, yet again why would anyone over the age of 10 want to play the Wii version over the PS3?
Honestly, I could go on and on, but it will come back to the same old argument. The Wii is cheaper, and has Mario, Zelda and other KIDS games. The PS3 has a HD, BlueRay, 1080P, better internet and a bunch more "mature" video games.
"Sorry bub, but the whole Nintendo = kiddies argument is just TRUE After two years of this console being on the market well over 75% of the purchases will be for families with kids 10 and under. What has Nintendo done to change? A new controller? You can't be serious.
Lets see. If you want a PS3 you had to wait in a line for at least 2 hours in advance at EB or you had to wait a 36 hours in advance at TrU to get a pre-order.
PS3 pre-orders are selling for over $1,400.00 on Ebay.
Sony just confirmed that they are on target to get 6 million units out by March.
Nintendo's launch partner is Toys R Us, and just today (Sunday Oct 29th 2006), most Toys R Us announced that they will only be taking 20 or so Wii pre-orders. GameStop and EB games actually took around the same number of Wii pre-orders as PS3's. So it looks like Nintendo "may" be having some manufacturing issues. If they were not having any issues, companies like Toys R Us should have around 50 to 100 pre-orders of Wii's.
So what is the largest issue that prevents most people from wanting a PS3. The price, and Sony has shown that they will lower that when needed (Japan PS3 price is ~$430). It isn't inconceivable that Sony won't offer some "Gold" pack with a game in the summer of 2007 for the same price as the current PS3's now and then lower the price by next Christmas for a basic console.
Now there is the whole BlueRay, HD-DVD thing. There isn't even 50k units of HD-DVD players out on the market and it looks like the manufacturing of BluRay will be helped out considerably by 6 million units being produced, not to mention that there will be 6 million BlueRay players out there. If you were a content provider which one would you produce for? It is also not a mistake that Sony is going to include a BlueRay movie with the first 500k PS3's. They want people to try it as a movie player.
I would say the future looks very bright for the PS3 and Sony. There are obviously a bunch of people willing to pay $1,400.00+ now on Ebay, and it appears that there are at least 6 million people in the world that will pay the list price to get one, and after that Sony can decide if they need to lower the price or not. I would say Nintendo fans need to worry a little bit about their launch numbers this year, but with Mario and such the own the 10 and under crowd, and it will do around the same as the gamecube. Not to slam the Wii, but to a lot of people see the Wii as just a gamecube 1.5 with a new controller. Now the real company that will be hurt is Microsoft. They haven't hit 5 million 360 units out yet, and the PS2 still out sells it month after month. That isn't good news for them and they are one price drop away from being all but shut down in new sales. It appears that it was a HUGE mistake for them to not include HD-DVD in the system and setting 720P as their "preferred" resolution. The way I see it, Microsoft could lower the price of the 360 to $100 by next Christmas and it probably wouldn't change their fate. It sucks to be in the "middle" of the console wars. The Nintendo (10 and under) fans will buy a Wii and the 11 and older crowd will want a PS3. I fully expect a Xbox 3 within 3 years, or I expect Microsoft to get out of the gaming world. They have a lot of battles going on, and they only have so many resources...
If you are a sub 15 person company couldn't Fedora or OpenSuSE work well for you? You get everything for free and the GUI isn't bad at all. The other advantage is that the sub 15 person company loves to use the server as a "workstation" also. You would loose that temptation with Linux.
The other advantage is that you don't EVER have to worry about CALs. It seems to me that the only real advantage that Microsoft would have would be that it has AD. Granted it isn't a true directory, but it can provide a more simplified admin console. In your case though, you wouldn't really see any advantage of a directory service with so few users.
Could you put some specifics to this?
Lets say I have a 2,000 person company and I want the following services on as little boxes as I can get by with.
File/Print
Web server/application server - both internal and external
Database server (to house custom shopping cart style web application + internal apps)
Content Management Server
Email + Scheduling
Development Tools
General support, say 8:00am to 5:00pm type of stuff.
Virtual System support, so the company can have a "test" and "development" environment.
Virus control for the server
Virus control for email
Spam software for email.
I would be curious to see the Microsoft offering on this. Every time we do a comparison Linux comes out on top. Granted, we don't use RedHat any more, but I would imagine we would get the $350 a year version if we needed to.
Again,I would like to know the prices that you are getting, and what if any leverage you have with Microsoft. I can say that since we switched off of Microsoft we have never looked back and other than a few weird issues with some crappy hardware, we haven't had any major issues. Our cost have gone down. The freedom alone of not having to go to finance to get approval of projects that "need" to be done is worth our migration alone. Again, I want to state that we didn't choose RedHat, but at least we had a choice.
I can't find the link, and again, I personally don't care how well or bad Nintendo does. I somewhat hope they do well and it puts pressure on Sony to lower their price, but finding anyone who will say ANYTHING bad about the Wii and not be torn apart on the web is difficult.
However the fact remains that the average Gamestop/EB didn't have as many preorders as PS3's. If I was a Nintendo fan I would be very worried about that. Now perhaps there is a great explanation for it, and this is a non issue, but again if I was a fan and missed out on the preorder today then I would probably be getting ready to camp out when they hit Best Buy or one of the other stores that don't take preorders.
The way I see it is this. The PS3 and Wii sell to pretty much the same distribution channel. The PS3 has 400k units on it's first ship day. The Nintendo supposedly has 2 MILLION. So there should be around 5X as many Wii as PS3's at their launch. Now some have said that Nintendo is actually ahead of schedule, but I will go with Nintendo's latest estimate. GameStop/EB had 8 or 16 PS3's per store for their preorder. Given the math above it isn't unreasonable to expect there to be at least 2X that number for Wii, yet we know that isn't the case. Heck, by the math above it isn't unresonable to expect 5X or 40 to 80 Wii preorders available. This obviously wasn't the case, and begs the quesiton of why?
Again, I am not bashing the Nintendo and personally like the system. I am not a fan of low resolution games and the $60+ weird controller, but the kids games on Nintendo rock. They flat out own the 10 and under crowd and their launch titles for that market looks as strong as ever. The Zelda game sounds great and I am sure that the Nintendo fans will enjoy their console, but the math needs to be explained. I will say that if I planned on getting a Nintendo Wii this year I would be somewhat concerned, and the only thing on the Wii console that would require any non standard or new engineering is the controller. So "if" there is an issue with the manufacturing then it isn't unreasonable to believe it points to the controller.
"My local EB is one of the top 10 in the nation, they got 16 PS3s. But they only got 12 Wiis. Doesn't make any sense, but I was #4 so it's all good. =)"
:-)
It was the same here in Indianapolis. The EB store I called only got 4 Nintendos and they got 15 PS3s. I was lucky enough to be #7 for the PS3, and I personally don't want a new Nintendo, but this tells me that the shipments of Nintendo will probably be less than was told.
This started me thinking some more. I heard that the Wii was having some major issues with their new controller. Specifically they have issues with sunlight and florescent lights. Now finding any bad news about Nintendo is hard because of the number of fanboys out there, but it doesn't shock me that they might have some issues with it. Nintendo, much like Sony tends to overestimate what they can actually deliver and it isn't outside the realm of possibility that they are having issues. "If" Nintendo truely has 2 million consoles ready for launch then each gamestop should have had around 25 units or more. Yet none in this area had more than 8.
I am beginning to think that I should have stood in line to put a Wii up on Ebay.
Either way, congrats on getting you box and I hope you have fun with it. I am cheesed about my PS3 and can't wait to get it. Hopefully I can get my new 1080P TV by then also.
O.J.
Nuff said.
I was in total agreement until your last sentence.
"know almost nobody who is a PC fanboi, its just a solution that gets the job done in a decent manner."
Man, you must not know the people I know. The PC/Microsoft guys are the biggest homers/fanboys I know. The ones I know will say things like "I like Linux and OSX" until you start to replace some of their machines with Linux and or OSX. Then suddenly they show their true colors. Heck, I know a TON of shops that say things like "Our standard is Oracle,Apache,Websphere.(pick non Microsoft product here), and they will not let you bring in any other product at all. Then you start to look at it and say "wait a second, isn't that SQL server and IIS over there?" The answer is usually "Yeah, but that is Microsoft".
Trust me the fanboys of Microsoft/X86 are no different than others except that companies are not currently removing their stuff (yet). The ones I have migrated off of Windows and on to Linux have gone well on the technical end, but the political end has been a different story. One company in particular even had one of it's customers try and mandate that they use Windows. I won't go in to detail here but that would be like you telling your bank that they must run OS2 or Amiga. The "customer" shouldn't have given a rats ass, but somehow their "fanboys" at this company cared about Microsoft enough to try and stop this company from migrating. Now I want to say that the migration went very well and after that political mess any thought of switching back to Windows is out of the question. Heck the new I.T. guys love Linux/Open Source now and contrary to popular belief they don't cost any more than the "Windows" guy because they are the SAME people. I won't say that they don't miss some things, but overall they love the fact that they can do so much stuff for FREE and they get to actually think and add value as opposed to just be an operational cost. Specifically, they want to upgrade they can by just budgeting their time. Anyway I am getting off topic here, but trust me the Windows fanboys are like the Mafia, they are there and they are not a myth. They just don't come out until you threaten them.
One last jab at Microsoft. The cost savings alone in licensing at that company could have paid for another support person, and that was the ace in the hole that I never had to use.
You know I actually thought about it and I shouldn't have mentioned he is/was Jewish. However I say that because of his somewhat regular "satire" against Christians and specifically Catholics. But I agree that I shouldn't have mentioned it.
I want to also state that he is caucasian . Did I say anything bad about him being a Caucasian? Nope, but if he had a somewhat regular "satire" piece on say Chinese people then stating he is caucasion does make some sense. That is where I was comming from, but even with that you are correct I didn't need to mention it. I should have just mentioned his "satire" of Christianity and to a much smaller degree religion in general.
Now I hope that you understand why I mentioned he is a Liberal. I want to be clear though in no means did I say that Jewish or even Liberals can't and are not patriots.
"What, a Jewish liberal can't be a true patriot?"
I did not say that. I also do not mean to imply that. However when John Stewart and the Daily Show attack Christians and conservatives this needs to be brought in to light.
"Stewart also regularly pokes at Democrats and other "liberals" The Republicans are in power and thus deserve and get more of his attention."
His show does NOT regularly blast Democrats and other "liberals".
Not at all. Both Jews and Liberals can and are patriots.
Wow, I normally don't reply to myelf, but to marked a troll for saying that some people don't view John Stewart as a Patriot... Not using any profanities in my post, not attacking him personally and yet still marked a troll within an hour. I do find it ironic that John Stewart turns to personal insults when confronted about his own show, yet I don't in a post and still get marked as a troll :-)
I guess Slashdot has gone the way of Digg.
Lets see now
I should say something like the following to get modded up...
Liberalism and socialism are good.
Apple is good
Linux is good.
Freedom of speech is good unless you disagree with Liberal causes.
Religion is ok unless it is Christianity, then you must keep it quiet.
DRM is bad
The PS3 is bad and graphics don't matter in a game. Heck we still play pong.
Come on moderators do you even read the articles or just base your votes if you "agree" with the post, and note if it makes valid points.
I think too many Digg users have made it over to Slashdot.
"John Stewart is a true patriot."
He is a Jewish Liberal. You may find that he is a "true patriot" but others may not. Heck even his writers admit that they are liberal.
Truthfully, he is someone who has a TV show that knows his demographics and makes sure his show caters to that market. He is no different than Rush, except that he occasionally has segments on Democrats. The other small difference between the two is that John hides behind "political satire" when confronted with real questions about his show. So he tries to make political points and send out a liberal message, while at the same time saying the show is just "political satire".
So again, you say he is a "true patriot". Some others say he is politically motivated, while others say he is just smart and has targeted a market of people that puts food on the table for him. I personally look at some of the "true patriots" of America, and honestly don't see John Stewart on the list, then again I very seldom watch his show, and don't know what he does outside of his show. Perhaps he donates a ton of time and money to his church, or helped in other charities... somehow though I believe that you think he is a patriot just because of his constant attacks on an administration you hate.
Lastly, have you ever heard Julia Carson speak? If you don't understand my question then you probably get your "news" from the Daily Show and CNN.
Well "YOU" may stop listening to me, and that is ok, but when the demographics of the Wii come in and they are almost all going to familes with kids at least one child under 10, then this system will be just like the cube, 64, and super. Why exactly do you think it will be any different this time?
Nintendo - best graphics? Nope, not even close.
Nintendo - best processor? Nope, not even close.
Nintendo - best sound? Nope.
Nintendo - best price after you buy 4 controllers? Possibly, but not by much.
Now...
Nintendo - Mario, Pokemon, Zelda exclusive? Yes.
Nintendo one year out - 100 freaking Mario type games for kids? Yep.
Again, I ask what has changed to suddenly make the 11-30 year old want a Wii over a 360 or PS3? The controller...
Well if only 8% of the people care about "tilt" controllers then that is bad news for the Wii that uses it as it's main advantage over the other next gen systems.
All kidding aside...
This type of stuff is nonsense, when the system is out and great games are out for it that will drive sales. A rumble joystick will not hurt or help a game like Resistance Fall of Man. The controller does have a small part in that it can't suck, but few do, except perhaps the new Nintendo one, and even if that proves to be a fad, people on the Wii will just start to use the "clasic" one.
In short Nintendo has Mario and other games for 10 and under. Their market is all but locked up.
Microsoft has their online setup very well and they have a small following now.
Sony is definately the high end system of the bunch and will own the high end gamers this version of the console war. The fanboys alone will buy the first 10 million units. Then Sony has to decide if they need to lower their price or not. Their controler has little to nothing to do with their outcome.
"Anyway, these people are going to keep trotting out Betamax because they won't forget being screwed. You can complain or rationalize all day long but you're not going to change their opinions or their use of Betamax as a bad example. Ever. They're ossified."
Yep, and I mentioned in detail the difference this time. Content providers, using their near monopoly of games consoles to cement the standard AND the ability to do such large scale manufacturing that the cost will eventually be for BluRay.
"Sure, some technophiles just gotta have 1080p, but most muggles can barely tell the difference in video between 700i and 1080p."
I agree, but then I look at 1080P and it blows away both 1080i and 720P. These are two different discussions. A game at 1280X720 will not look as good as a game at 1920X1080 on anything bigger than a 23" monitor. Now you seem to have missed the Nintendo resolution of 480i. Those games will be below 800X600. So in short a game like Madden could look the best on the PS3, then the 360 then the Wii. Obviously there is a ton more than graphics in a game, but if the engine supports all those resolutions, and you have the ability to pay in any of them, most people will pick the PS3. It will definately make a difference in people buying TV's over the next few years, and 1080P will become the norm of new TV's.
"There were lots of factors that drove Joe Q. Average from VHS to DVD. " Yep and it took a while, but have you seen a 1080P picture on a 1080P set. If not go to Fry's and take a look, then compare it to a 720P signal. You will be amazed at the difference.
"This time around, the difference is just not that big to the average consumer. "
Once they see it, and they will see it and when they go an buy their new TV they will start asking for it. Heck even the sales guys are starting to preach it, and the cost difference is slowly becomming a non issue.
"predict they'll sell a handful of PS3s to some rich fanbois and early adopters"
Sony will easily sell 6 million units by April of next year. 6 million! By that time the HD-DVD/BluRay war is over. Heck it will be over on Nov 17th with 400k units in the U.S.
So Sony will have a machine that can download content. All systems have a HD.
They will have the ability to protect content via HDMI on all PS3's.
They will have a 50GB storage capacity for games. Their competiton has 9GB.
They will have a controller that also has motion sensing.
Now the one part, and this is a huge part is they have a large price tag. The "average" gamer won't drop $500 on a console at this time, (Japan it will be $420). So, my prediction is that Sony will sell to the fanboys out there this year and they will pay a premium. Then by next Christmas the console will be $100 less. Perhaps even more. This is when life gets very interesting for Microsoft and to some degree Nintendo. When (not if), the price difference between the systems narrows the difference in hardware starts to become more and more of an issue. One huge price cut on the PS3 and the 360 is all but dead in the water. Nintedo has Mario and the 10 and under crowd, so they will be buffered, but I don't believe Halo 3,4,5 will be enough for the 360.
So the 10 million or so 360 owners out there will kind of be screwed because the life of the 360 is all but one good price cut away.