Slashdot Mirror
PS3's Lack of Rumble May Disappoint
Immersion Corporation, who you may recall from their rumble-controller suit against Sony, has released a study. Engadget reports that (somewhat unsurprisingly), it indicates gamers will miss the rumble feature in PS3. The 'SIXAXIS' gamepads planned for the PS3 will only have the 'tilt' feature, as far as is known so far. From the article: "Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo). As if these numbers didn't paint a clear enough picture of the message Immersion is trying to convey, two further questions spell it out even more explicitly: when asked if the lack of rumble capabilities would affect their buying decisions ... 5% said that it would definitely cause them not to buy a PS3 and 32% claimed that they were less likely to pick one up for this reason and this reason alone. " GameDaily has a further, more detailed exploration of the study.
The rumble is a great way to provide immediate feedback. Now I won't know when rocks are chasing me down a hill or when I run over a prostitute.
FTFA...
Press releases are boring. We go through literally hundreds of them a day, and for the most part, they're self-serving documents full of half-truths and inflated claims about products and services.
Seriously, they've fscked up every single aspect of the publicity, popularity and launch of the PS3 through trying to make this system do everything. They even said as much. And then they leave out the rumble.
Fucksakes.
Meta will eat itself
Rumble pack technology provider publishes paper saying people want Rumble technology? Who would have thought?
Personally, I didn't find much value in the rumble packs in the PS2. I've always hated how they call it "Force Feedback" too, since it's no such thing. I usually leave them on, but it's not like having the controller vibrate in my hands has really enhanced the game experiance. I think the tilt sensors will be far more interesting, although most likely just used as an occasional novelty by game designers. I'm expecting fighting games where you can duck left and right by tilting the controller (which would be more natural than the shoulder buttons they use now) and lots of use in minigames.
I read the internet for the articles.
...lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Considering that this survey was done by the same company that sued Sony over their rumble feature, I'm not at all surprised that the numbers for rumble are coming out high while the numbers for tilt sensors are coming out low.
That being said, I have heard a lot of disappointment being expressed over the PS3's lack of rumble. Most people don't seem to think the tilt sensors are a good replacement, and mostly think it's a gimmick ripped off from Nintendo. (Which would explain why the numbers are so low for the tilt sensor, while most people I've spoken with are very positive about the Wii-mote.) Yet I don't hear enough that I would consider the lack of rumble to be the feature that's going to kill the PS3. It seems to me the price tag, lack of games, and console shortages are all far more problematic.
If Immersion is trying to prove to Sony that they should have licensed the technology, well this (as in "suspect numbers") is the wrong way to go about it.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Define "too easy" in this context. Have you seen uninsightful, uninteresting, uninformative comments modded up only for PS3 bashing? Better meta-moderate then eh?
Rumble can, and does, enhance some titles. However there are invariably titles which overuse it, ruining an otherwise fine gaming experience. I don't mind getting a thump when I hit a wall in the game. What I can't stand is a constant rumble if an engine is damaged, or during some "The boss is coming out of the ground" sequence that lasts five minutes. Give people's hands a rest, please. It reminds me of the some of the first THX movies, which would abuse the capabilities by overusing them for loud sounds.
So, I for one will not miss rumble. Not for how it could be used, but for how it was too often misused.
I use wireless controllers when I play my games, all of which do not have a rumble feature. I'm sure there are some that do, but I imagine it would kill the battery life pretty quick. Although I do not consider myself a hardcore gamer, I don't think the rumble is that essential of a feature.
Some games definitly won't be the same without the Rumble feature. Project Zero for example. Most games don't really need it though. Mind you, most PS3 games don't need the tilt feature either. None of the games I played at TGS used it and some (Resistance) could have done with rumble.
It's not a big bother really. If the Rumble feature is needed to enhance the experience, then the game should just be made for the other 2 consoles.
I remember this lawsuit being created (didn't MS get hit by it also?), however I do not remember the out come.
Why is it that only Sony has stoped with the rumble packs?
Are N and MS paying for the right to use a motor in their controllers?
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
360 controllers are wireless and rumble.
I get 20-30 hours of use out of a charge of batteries on them.
Yeah, there's gonna be some mocking of this, because there's a lot of times when rumble is misused (Psycho Mantis anyone? Oooh, the Rez vibrator!), but it's really great when you don't immediately notice it.
:).
Best example I can think of is Halo. Firing weapons produces vibrations, and when you're in the warthog's gunner seat and taking advantage of the unlimited ammo on the backseat cannon, it can throw off your aim a little bit as your hand starts to go numb...
But, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I will miss the rumble pack, if only because of that whole Rez vibrator thing
Beyond the Polygons : Because 50,000 polygo
The daily Zonk bitching about Sony over something or other. Jeez, give it a rest. Stop wetting yourself and let's just see what the console can and cannot do when we actually get to see them on the shelves.
They took it out for space issues for their crap attempt to knock off the Wii. then found out not only does the Wii do what it does it also rumbles and has a speaker... It's at that point the loaded gun shot right in thier foot.
Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
In the title, is the word "dissapoint" the opposite of "sapoint"? I'm rather disappointed that I don't know this word.
...to point out that "disappoint" has only one "s."
the first time I was excited about rumble was N64 Goldeneye. in that game it was absolutely essential to the immersion (combined with the gun-like controller and relative newness of the technology). after a while I got used to it and only noticed when it *wasn't* there because the game felt so flat.
on the other hand, with the GameCube I don't care much about the rumble. on SSB, for example, I have it turned off because it just doesn't add anything.
I expect rumble to be important for the Wii though since there's a much stronger push for immersion.
I liked the rumble feature of the PS2 controller. Cheesy, but it did provide for some interesting emotional effects (why something vibrating in my hand would make me feel like the car on the screen is in trouble is a mystery to me, but it worked). Why would Sony remove this feature? Cost? It seems that the tilt features on the controllers are a bit sensitive and tweaky, so perhaps rumble breaks tilt sensing.
-- Dregs?
From the article "a majority of console gamers use rumble/vibration quite regularly and clearly value it, and a majority expect existing rumble/vibration capability to carry forward to the PS3. In addition, a majority don't currently realize Sony's PS3 controllers won't allow for this backwards compatibility,".
What that means is if you have an older game that you are used to playing with rumble, it will feel very different on your PS3 (without the rumble). In fact, since the system won't be designed for rumbling, I'm not sure if it can even developed by third parties (in the form of a new controller). It kind of takes away some of the allure of backward compatibility doesn't it?
The article seems to be /.ed, but...
8% care about integrating motion/tilt sensing in a standard controller. The Wii requires you use its motion/tilt sensing technology in its controller. It's not a good idea to poll people about something they don't know. Ask again after the Wii comes out.
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
In other news, Phillip Morris has announced that cigarettes are not harmful to your health.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
The tiger woods series makes great use of the rumble. It's pretty cool when it sinks up with the audio of a heartbeat during a pressure shot. I think it was a creative use of the rumble.
nothing
...I'm playing Okami--which is so artistically engrossing it's making me want to lick the screen--and the one element that does NOT immerse me anymore is... well... the Immersion tech.
I've made the complaint before, but now I'm really starting to notice it; vibration may be nice, but until they really work on the mechanics of it and developers actually do something other than "stick it in a game," it's distinctly unimpressive anymore. (And, like a low-rez texture here or there, can indeed stick out like a sore thumb when it doesn't measure up to the rest of the game.)
Who doesn't love sitting on the top of a wooded hill in 40 degree below zero weather at 4 in the morning with the head of a russian mob boss in the lens of your 50 cal sniper rifle's scope while you feel your heart beat like crazy? I'm not sure how many assassinations you guys may have made, but no matter who it is, whether it be a heavily guarded political figure or a small, helpless child, your heart beats like crazy as you line up that shot- the controller vibrations to reflect that really get me in the mood.
Of course gamers picked rumble. They know rumble. The only motion detection most of them know anything about are largely failed attempts. U-Force or Power Glove anyone? And while rumble is one of those things that's good when used right and terrible when used wrong, most developers tend to get it right. What I don't get is why motion detection comes at the cost of rumble. They're treating this like an either/or situation when I'd imagine someone could engineer a method to do both if Sony were so inclined.
My favorite quote had to have been Sony saying they couldnt put the two in for technical reasons shortly before Nintendo said, "oh BTW these things will have rumble and a speaker too"
I bet it was technical... as in technically they wouldnt pay the money.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
(completely unbiased) poll
Is there such a thing?
Did you mean: disappoint
Spell-checking these article submissions is a very easy task for the editors compared to evaluating their content - why isn't it done?
It seems that the tilt features on the controllers are a bit sensitive and tweaky, so perhaps rumble breaks tilt sensing.
That was the official explanation, IIRC, but it seems pretty weak to me. Why would they remove a feature that has been used in all the consoles since the N64, to throw in a feature that seems so hastily dropped in, for no good reason, with no planned solid applications for it? With the Wii, the motion/position sensing is the center of the design for the whole system, it's the reason to get a Wii. For the PS3, the tilt sensor is a last-minute add-on, replacing something that has been used a lot, and noone knows what it will be used for, other than flying a plane (I've never heard of a real pilot using a game controller with a tilt sensor in a real plane... I thought they had yokes or joystick-like controls).
My question is, if the rumble affects the tilt, why not put the hardware for both features in there, and allow the developers to choose one or the other to be used at a given moment, with some type of interlock, so they can't both be used at the same time? Either a game could be all-rumble or all-tilt, or else it could switch back and forth at different parts of the game. I know cost is an obvious reason, but isn't this a system that's supposed to offer more? The price is certainly a lot higher. Physical space is a constraint, but not only is Nintendo able to throw in rumble, a much better motion/position/orientation sensing system, but even a stinking speaker in the controller for that much more immersive feedback. So Sony they can't really blame space limitations, either.
I always turn the rumble feature off anyways. I'm not going to miss it. It's not like it enhanced play any. In a football game it would shake when you got hit. Oh yeh, it feels like the NFL now because my hand is shaking. In driving games it shakes when you go off the road. A rumble chair might be a more accurate experience, but I'd still turn that off.
turned out to be pretty incorrect. Sure it didn't outsell the other consoles, but the Xbox sure became a part of the gaming community and titles like Halo sure garnered a lot of mindshare. Gamers are willing to cough up for good technology (and whatever gives the best Madden experience), and the more i think about it, the more i realize that PS3 won't be an exception. People will buy it.
as for the controller itself.. i've been using my cordless logitech controller for PS2 for a while, and i always keep the rumble off to conserve battery life. not only do i not miss it, but i value not having to change batteries regularly.
... In a related story, DeBeers Inc have released a survey that shows that 39% of people won't buy a Playstation 3 because it isn't carved out of a solid diamond.
Hey Slashdot Editors! I know hunting for dupes takes up all your time, but how about occasionally NOT posting trash marketing pseudo-surveys as news stories?
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
And I bet I get more than one person calling back and wanting to return their PS3 because the rumble "doesn't work".
Disclaimer: I work for Sony. This is my opinion, not theirs, etc.
;)
This survey funded from Immersion, the company whose rather iffy patent in my opinion (dual-actuator rumble first appeared in the Hard Drivin' arcade machine as I recall, so if anything Atari invented it then these guys patented it? please!).
I won't miss rumble, mainly because I hold a joypad for long portions of my working day and rumbling pads annoy the shit out of me 99% of the time. Few games have ever used them imaginatively (yes, I include games I've worked on). I think the real problem is that they're not real force feedback. I could see the point in that - steering wheels that actually apply resistance, etc. Logitech do make one, and it's fucking great. But a pad going bzzz doesn't increase my enjoyment of games. Perhaps if I was a lady...
Game dev and music blog
I would think a respectable company would take Sony aside in the courts and say "Look, if you put rumble in the PS3 and license with us, we'll back off this PS2 issue a bit." This just seems to me like a shady company trying to wring out Sony's pockets. They may be right, but in the interest of their public image, and in this case, the amount of licensing money they stand to lose by not being included in the PS3, they should be trying to compromise, not stealing Sony's wallet.
While I think that a rumble feature does add to some titles, and I will probably notice in some games where it's missing, I certainly don't consider it a crucial feature.
However, the only reason it was removed in the first place was, of course, so Sony could go "Hey look! We have motion sensing too!" Except that it's only along one axis really, and some people *cough*Nintendo*cough* have proven that it's possible to have both. So it's really sort of crappy. I think there are far more games already that make effective use of the rumble pack than will make effective use of tilt sensing (this'll be great for racing games and some games like Monkey Ball, but for most games it's unnecessary).
So really the whole affair is just ridiculous--I'm one of those people who still want the PS3 to succeeed. It's just that Sony hasn't done much to help their case,
WTF?
So "vibration feedback enhances their game experience"...
Bullshit.
Get real.
You're shooting aliens, in a very distant reality from your present sitting-on-the-couch one, and you want to... let me get this... try and "enhance" your game experience?
Are you stupid?
Look, vibration does jack-shit for most games.
Really, think about it.
You're driving along, at 30 miles an hour, and you hit a wall... vibration.
You're driving along, at 130 miles an hour... and you hit a wall... vibration.
It's the same shit!
Thus, it's completely useless!!!!
In FACT!, who the heck thought of the idea that "vibration" equals "grenade" explosion???
I'll give a little tip to wanna-be gamers:::
Turn your vibration off.
Case in Point::: Halo2 on xLive.
If you have vibration turned ON, to "enhance" your experience (WTF that means), your weapons' aim WILL change if that vibration happens.
Why?
Beacuse your thumb is holding down the stick in a certain position, and them comes your "reality enhancing vibration"...
BOOM!
Your weapon (sniper, in my case) no longer is pointed where you wanted.
So much for vibration.
Vibration should be left to three things:
1. Vibrators
2. Concrete vibrators
3. gnomes that run around shaking the seats of our politicians.
Thank you. Have a great day.
...Slahsdot is severely biased towards other publishers (Nintendo, anyone?). Can we just *wait* till this console is in the shop without spreading what is no more than FUD?
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
I get the same magazine. It's based on the exact same press release, they DO NOT agree with it, and most of the article is talking about how Immersion is attempting to black-mail Sony into licensing their patents.
No one will decide not to buy a PS3 over the rumble feature. It's "sour grapes". People can't afford the PS3 anyway, so they come up with all sorts of BS reasons why they don't want it.
"I can't afford it" is a valid reason, and is the only valid reason the parent lists. All the others are just sour grapes.
As the only person on the planet that saw the rumble as retarted, this whole topic is well .... retarded. Of course, I don't have plans to buy a ps3 anyway, but that's not the point.
Why should I care if the controller vibrates or not? I'm married ;)
I was wondering what she meant about the vibration feature.
Hah, you completely missed the point, the PS3 controller is really a nunchuck with more buttons.
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
The lack of rumble alone is just the straw that broke the camel's back. It says a lot about Sony's incompetence, and I don't particularly want to buy a console from an incompetent company.
I'm suspending judgement until it comes out, but I'm telling everyone I know -- I don't care if you buy a Wii at launch, but wait a month or two after the PS3 comes out before you buy one. Then you'll know how much games will actually cost, you'll have a better idea all around if the console is worth it at any price, and the price itself will have dropped like a rock.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
There is no doubt in my mind that millions of people will buy a PS3, just like millions of people will see Uwe Boll's next movie; but that doesn't mean either will be a successful product. I (like many people hear) have watched consoles launching in the past and I have never seen a company handle their product as poorly as Sony has. The PS3 is:
1) The most expensive home console in recent history and its price is in the same league as the Sega Saturn and 3DO
2) The games are going to be more expensive than any modern console; the PS3's games are $75-$85 in Japan for the average game (the same price as a priemium game in Japan) which makes them as expensive as N64 games were.
3) It is launching a year after its competition in North America and Europe, while its competition is bringing out second generation games, and all the PS3 has is the promise of good games and better graphics; a similar situation to how the XBox and Gamecube launched.
4) The PS3 is pushing a new optical disc format which is not really popular, and those that want it will probably buy a stand alone player; the Panasonic CDI, and Sega CD tried this.
All in all the PS3 seems to have made every mistake of every major "runner-up" or "also-ran" console in every generation since the NES. I can't imagine how this platform will be successful enough to attract enough third party support to have enough games to justify the massive price tag. If 30 Million gamers buy one of these (which I would be surprised by) they will be lucky to retain 10% of their exclusive third party support; being that I own 2 Sony games for my PS2 and 20 some third party games I doubt I'm buying a PS3 (and I don't think I'm alone).
I agree with the previous poster. It is a pointless comparison. The Wiimote and PS3 Controller are about as same as a motorcycle and a bicycle. Sure, they are two wheeled modes of transport, but you wouldn't take any comparison between the features of the two seriously. Not that one is better than the other, but it is apples and oranges.
You are in a maze of little twisting passages, all different.
The vibration motor was removed because it would interfere with the accelerometer.
Nintendo is able to retain vibration for the Wii because the Wii remote, which contains a vibration motor, relies upon an optical sensor bar and the nunchuck attachment, which contains an accelerometer, lacks a vibration motor.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
" while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo)"
That's like asking 1000 people if they want wheels on a boat.
Oh, only 8% of you do? Sorry Nissan.
Stop associating the ps3 tilt sensing with Nintendo's product. Apples and oranges. Of course most people don't want some tilt/motion feature tacked on to a regular controller.
I regularly use the rumble feature in RPGs (Oblivion comes to mind). I will carry the (wireless) controller around the house while i do things and wait for something to happen in the game, and the rumble lets me know if I get attacked.
I always trust polls that are "completely unbiased."
Quoting myself on this subject:
The rumblepad is the least advanced simulation component in today's gaming. Visual and auditory elements of games tend to improve at rapid speeds, bringing more realistic graphics, physics, gameplay, and sounds into new products, - which ultimately increases the level of immersion for the players. The rumblepad feature is rather weak, comparing to those two. 'The sense of touch' it supposedly provides is nothing more than repetitive vibrations that don't exactly simulate to on-screen experiences (at least when you're not controlling a drag addict or a patient with Parkinson's disease). There are only 3 or 4 different vibration levels (PS2) that don't and can't produce variant experiences since they only affect the vibrations' strength. You'll feel the same buzzing 'sense of touch' from a getting shot in one game you'll feel from a nuclear explosion in another one. From my point of view it is quite laughable and does not qualify for being an essential part of the game experience. For 'an integral part of game play' rumblepads don't seem to provide that much of a game play to begin with. I would certainly leave the vibrational component on all next-gen consoles' gamepads. With all its limitations it's still a nice auxiliary feature. However, I don't see its removal from PS3 as something to cry about. PS3 controllers will still have pressure sensitive buttons (far more essential for gaming), and their new gyroscopic sensors should provide gamers with considerably more advanced and immersive types of gameplay. Besides, my guess would be that the feature will be restored through third-party controllers, although it's not a certainty at this point.
By the way, the survey was commissioned by a company with certain interests. I'm not accusing it in being biased but I definitely wouldn't regard it as a completely reliable and authoritative source of information.
Why is it that every PS3 article has to be negative and every Wii article has to be approving? This particular post could just as well be titled "Only 7% cares about Wii's motion sensing" if /. wasn't so blindly anti-Sony and pro-Nintendo. (To clarify, I'm not a Sony fan myself, but continuous bias is just plain annoying).
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0
I've been playing my PS2 alot lately and after about 2 weeks into a few games that have ample use of a rumble feature, I came to the realization that my controller was not rumbling at all. It is in fact broken, but the controller and the experence, seemed just the same to me as it was during the time I hadn't noticed the rumble feature. Before, some uses of the rumble just seemed to take away from the experience. I used to take my focus away from the game on and the controller itself as the thing would shake in various awkward ways. I seriously do not see a need for a rumble feature.
For Sony, they may as well continue to forgo the idea of a rumble feature until either 3rd party controllers start doing it for them or Sony themselves come up with a rumble technology not dependant on someone else's patent.
I'm excited about the Wii not only because the controller detects motion but also because the control scheme is a major focal point of the machine in terms of software development. Public image and marketing, too - nearly every mention of Wii in the mainstream media includes multiple references to its controller. The idea of the game wand is the central concept behind the Wii.
Meanwhile, Sony has put motion detection in their controller as an afterthought and reaction. The mainstream media talks about the PS3's price, Cell processors and HDTV. The controller's motion detection function is not the centerpiece of the system... it's just there.
If you polled me, I'd also tell you I don't care about motion detection in a PS3 controller. That doesn't reflect my opinion of the Wii.
First, I don't blame Sony one bit for not wanting to give another dime to the company that screwed them over the PS2 controller. Immersion is getting what they deserve.
Second, all the PS3 controllers are wireless, which means battery operated. The rumble feature is a huge battery sink. I know the Nintendo Wavebird controllers don't have rumble for this very reason.
Third, if a game is actually using the tilt sensing feature, then it probably would be difficult to support the rumble at the same time. I suppose a game could do either or though.
I had a PS2, that i modded for imports with a case mod.
After that mod I found out after 6 monthes when I tried a wireless controller, that I had screwed through the controller cord, and had no power running to the controller. However I did have analog control. The only thing I didn't have was rumble.
It took me 6 monthes, and I'm a heavy user of video games, I probably have close to 60 ps2 games and pick up one every month or so if there's somethign good.
Try telling me it's crucial, you can't because it really isn't required. It's a very nice feature but it's not essetnial to gaming, and motion control is going to be more useful. Then again the way the PS3 is going their motion control will be nothing while the wii has both technologies.
Well if only 8% of the people care about "tilt" controllers then that is bad news for the Wii that uses it as it's main advantage over the other next gen systems.
All kidding aside...
This type of stuff is nonsense, when the system is out and great games are out for it that will drive sales. A rumble joystick will not hurt or help a game like Resistance Fall of Man. The controller does have a small part in that it can't suck, but few do, except perhaps the new Nintendo one, and even if that proves to be a fad, people on the Wii will just start to use the "clasic" one.
In short Nintendo has Mario and other games for 10 and under. Their market is all but locked up.
Microsoft has their online setup very well and they have a small following now.
Sony is definately the high end system of the bunch and will own the high end gamers this version of the console war. The fanboys alone will buy the first 10 million units. Then Sony has to decide if they need to lower their price or not. Their controler has little to nothing to do with their outcome.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
I don't think Sony wants to think that the issues with BlueRay (and its questionableness as the future HD DVD standard) and the cost of the PS3 and of its games is driving away its customers. (I would like to think that their insistence on proprietary, crippled standards for media and their rootkit fiasco have hurt them in the eyes of their customers, but I doubt it.)
Given the choice between conditions which they don't want to change (or which would require painful internal changes to implement) or a condition which they might change easily or which would absolve them of possible blame for a shortfall in PS3 sales, which do you think Sony would choose to acknowledge?
I'm sure there will be alot of comments about the uselessness of force feedback. But before jumping to conclusions, check out the company's release of their next-generation force feedback a couple months ago, which they are no doubt trying to get into the current consoles. http://www.gamedaily.com/features/?id=1039 "The effect is satisfying, yet it doesn't come close to capturing actual gunfire or explosions, partly because it takes time for these motors to build up speed. But this single, next-generation motor is not only capable of spinning in multiple directions, but it can stop on a dime and is generally much stronger than its predecessors. The result is a richer, more intense experience that will further immerse us in these upcoming games. To demo this, Immersion had me play a couple of PlayStation 2 games using the standard DualShock, those being EA's Medal of Honor: Frontline and Sony's Gran Turismo 4. Employees encouraged me to fire my character's guns and rev my car's engines, and things happened and felt as they should. But then we moved onto LucasArts' Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast for the PC. The game had been specially rigged to work with this next-gen vibration, and the moment the tester pulled out his character's light saber I was blown away. Unlike in previous Star Wars games, where a controller will output the same level of rumble no matter what's going on, there's varying degrees of it, from when the light saber's powered on, to when its cutting things up and to when it's not being used at all, whereupon which the controller provides a very satisfying "hum". And the vibrations don't stop until the weapon's put away. Furthermore, gunfire is just a lot more intense. Not only does each weapon (blaster pistol, cross bow, disrupter rifle) feel different, but the kick back is superb. The difference between this technology and previous controllers is akin to making the jump from the original Resident Evil on PSOne to Resident Evil 4. It's just in stark contrast to what I've been used to."
and the nunchuck by itself is a pointless useless gimmick.
You nearly nailed it, just complete the thought process.
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
The 3DO was $700 when every other system at that time was around $200. How can you claim that the PS3 is in that league? The 3DO was more than triple the price of the competition at the time. If you add in the cost of the wireless adaptor and the HD-DVD to the price of the 360, it's more expensive feature for feature than the PS3. Your comparison falls short here.
The PS3 games in the US are at the same $60 price point that 360 games and Wii games. You're buying into the rumors that haven't been confirmed.
XBox barely has the titles that it was supposed to launch with available, nearly a year later. Gears of War was due to be released a week after the launch of the 360. It's a "first generation" title by your standards. Most of the EA titles that are coming out are merely enhancements to the stripped down versions which came out at launch. I would hardly call current 360 titles "second generation" due to these facts.
The PS3 will create the popularity behind Blu-Ray. There have been, supposedly, about 20k HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players sold since April of this year. In November, Sony is going to flood the market with half a million players. HD-DVD will have a whole hell of a lot of catching up to do then. Besides that, comparing this to CDi and SegaCD is a bit odd seeing as how the PSOne did the same thing and took the industry by storm. Then the PS2 did the same thing for DVD. Your comparisons don't make sense in that context.
Full Backwards Compatibility. A third generation gaming machine. Pushing new standards, like in the past. Your arguments fall apart and your predictions probably will too.
There are very few games that I liked the rumble feature, or found it to be of any use. Rez was fun with it pulsing along with the music, Wario Ware Twisted gave a sense of feed back like resistance(which worked well with the interactive-ness of spinning your GBA around), yet most of the time for me it is just over done and provides nothing to enhance the game play. I don't need a buzz each time I get a weapon, jack some car, etc nor do I really need it when I hit a wall, another car, start my engines, etc in a Racer. Yes it does give you some emersion in games like Racers, but I find it doesn't give me much of a enhancement or immersion to my playing experience as the games listed above.
I do find it funny how people complain about those, like me, complaining about rumble features when "no one has complained or mentioned it before" and think it is just some fanboyish defense. No shit no one complained about it much before, there wasn't much of a reason to discuss it like there has been now. I have always hated it even before Sony dropped the feature(I even made sure to buy a NON-rumble dual analog-stick controller a back in the PS1 days), and it is the one feature I turn off at the start of any game I pick up. And even with games like Rez, the ruble feature can get annoying after extended usage.
So 74% of those questioned didn't know Sony had removed the rumble. And these were people 18 and older who owned a game system. Anyone on the Internet reading about the PS3 stuff knows about that. That seems to confirm that a vast majority of even the game system owning market doesn't know about the PS3 stuff everyone is complaining about on the Internet. All these people who don't know about the two system versions, the technology included or not included, the price. And if they don't know about the PS3 then they probably haven't read or heard anything about the Wii either. All those ignorant people who are just thinking they will buy the next Playstation when it comes out because to them Playstation means videogames. Maybe Sony isn't so far off in their arrogance?
Nintendo releases a new (completely unbiased) poll that says 99% of the world loves and will buy >3 Wii's.
Thanks Immersion, for funding a poll to make yourself look better
Let's get rrrready to ... oh ... you have a PS/3 ... nevermind.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Out of the box, not all games will require it, which is why the original comparison is not fair. The new Sonic game does not require it, ExciteTruck, and I believe the SMB does not require it either. I am not sure of the exact breakdown. The key point is that it is an accessory. But still, it is a good enough product that a lot of games will require it - not because it is an extra source of income for Nintendo, but because it creates a lot of options for developers. I am looking forward to seeing what other kind of uses developers will come up with, from a hardware standpoint.
Really, it comes down to the fact that the PS3 is build around the hardware of the system itself, in terms of power. The controller was an afterthought. I really don't think you will see a lot of games built around the gameplay mechanics of the controller. The Wii, on the other hand, was built around the gameplay mechanics when they decided that they didn't just want to create a more powerful system - but something different. The PS3 will do good at what it is supposed to do, as will the Wii. They just happen to have a common point (if you stretch it) that is a core part of one system's design, and an extra to the other.
You are in a maze of little twisting passages, all different.
i will not be buying a ps3 unless it has rumble...
it's a useful indicator, and like sound, conveys another dimension of feeling and impact.
your hits and crashes just wont be the same without it. for real.
music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
Taladega Nights The Official Game of the Movie is really gonna be lacking if I can't feel the "Shake... and Bake!" Seriously though, rumble was an interesting feature but it is WAY to early to discount the motion sensitivite stuff just yet. I am looking forward to playing with it.
Tilt sensing actually does suck. It makes the games harder to play than just using the analog stick and if it's not the focus of the game all of the time, you can easily be tilting the controller without knowing it. Microsoft tried this bit years ago with one of their controllers, and I bought it and I've never had a less pleasurable gaming experience than falling off the motorcycle because I tilted the controller wrong while trying to grab a drink. Dumb idea. That being said, I don't know if Nintendo's controller is strictly a tilt sensing thing. Besides, the control is a lot more like you would have for an arcade game in that there's a certain understanding that you will be using the way your hand is positioned to determine a great deal of the action because the controller is unique. With a regular controller and tilt sensoring, you are more prone to tilt it because you forget that you are supposed to be watching yourself. It's when they make the tilt sensoring a side attraction or an "added feature" on a game that it sucks. Using alternative control mechanisms doesn't necessarily suck. Although I will reserve my final opinion until I see both implementations, I believe Nintendo's idea looks more believable as a way to attract customers. (Not that that means anything, Wii could easily come in last place).
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
I have to say as a disclaimer that I for one personally beleive that rumble IS an addition to a console.
While some claim it's a gimmick and or annoying, I feel that on a sublminal level it adds substantially to games with good feedback - infact it's one of those things you simply don't realise it was good until it's gone.
Anyone need only play Rallisport challenge 2 on the Xbox 1 to see it was very very well done in that game, combined with the good noises in the game it really did sound and feel like slipping around on either rocks, grass, dirt and so on - very very well done.
Also Halo made fairly good use of rumble too.
So for the record, I WANT rumble in the PS3 quite badly actually I'm really really sad to see it go.
That being said, these Immersion people are nothing sort of being a bunch of fucking assholes.
Not only do they have a patent on something which is INSIDE MOST WOMENS BEDSIDE DRAWERS and is as simple as a weighted motor,.... they have the nerve to enforce their bullshit patent on Sony.
To add insult to injury this is the SECOND time they've antagonised Sony / the media with bullshit comments like this.
They are essentially saying "nyah nyah nyah, we won!" trying to present themselves as innocents fighting for the gamers, when it's assholes like this who cause gamers problems in the first place.
They beat Sony and now are antagonising them with this "gee people will miss the rumble that SONY TOOK FROM YOU" that's what they are saying, in an effort to try to convince Sony to license their "technology"
This article is likely true in the fact that hey we will miss rumble, hey don't we all wish Sony would impliment it but the flaw is it comes from immersion, anyone else handling this study makes this a perfectly good article but being handled by Immersion? It's just antagonism and bullshit, fuck these assclowns, I really do wish they'd disapear.
Fingers crossed there IS rumble somehow on the PS3 because I certainly want it myself - we'll see what third party manufacturers will do.
The highly acclaimed Nintendo Wavebird has had almost universal acclaim as one of the best implementations of a wireless controller as well as the first first-party wireless controller. It's largely responsible for almost every new console using a wireless controller.
The thing is, it also lacked rumble, yet this didn't really stop people from buying and gushing over them. Personally, I like rumble, so no, I didn't buy one. This is where we get into the meat of this problem. In my case I felt that rumble outweighed wireless. Yeah, a wireless controller would have been nice, but my living room is small enough that if I pull out the Gamecube a bit there's no problem sitting on the couch and playing. It came down to giving up a feature for a small convenience and I had to side with the wired controller.
This same argument is what's going on here. The tilt sensor is largely seen as a last-minute rip-off of what Nintendo's doing. Unlike Nintendo it's not very well integrated or a focal point of the experience, just a "me too!" bullet point for the back of the box. Rumble is an established technology that's been put to use well in almost every game released. While there are rumble detractors it would seem that the vast majority prefer what would probably be commonly used rumbling or what would likely be infrequent (and if I may editorialize further for a moment, awkwardly designed and implemented) tilting.
It won't cause people not to buy the PS3. They loved the Wavebird and felt that wireless outweighed a a benefit. But from inital musings it seems like people don't feel the same way about the tilt sensor Sony has planned.
Personally I have enjoyed the use of rumble in a number of games.
That said, I think you can party make up for what rumble gives you simply with auditory feedback - not quite as direct but it still gets the point across.
After reading previews for the game Lair I am more than happy to have tilt sensing in its place, though I still find it odd they did not simply also have rumble (I do not buy the official reason, and agree it's probably because they don't want to give immersion any more money - a case where patents have hurt us as consumers).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Minus the vibrator bit, I think those examples are cases of it being "really great when you don't immediately notice it." Well, you do notice it with Rez, but not in the typical way vibration is associated with most games(buzzing when shooting, getting hit, etc, and not buzzing along with the music's beat)....
The Halo one sounds like one of those you typically notice in just about ever game using vibrations; "OOOH I SHOT A WEAPON, controller shakes and makes me less accurate!" I sure do immediately notice this stuff, and if I am playing a FPS deathmatch the last thing I want is a controller that vibrates. And you do notice it when they add the feedback for something unecessary like ever time you jump....
And like the other poster said, playing stuff like Rez for extended times isn't good. While having the PS2 controller pulse along with the game's music is fun, your hands, wrists, etc get sick of it after playing it for a while. Good thing you don't have to play through all 5 stages in a row, or I would have gotten sick of that feature and turned it off.
"Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo)."
"Do you want to keep having what you've had for years and have become familiar with?"
"Yes."
The low showing for motion (and/or position) sensing controllers may have something to do with the fac that they're new and unfamiliar. If nothing else, it's hard to know you want something when you're still not quite sure what that something is.
Nintendo is aiming for what people want, and not necessarily what they think they want. Whether or not Nintendo is right in this remains to be seen, but focusing on the latter and not the former is going to be a poor indicator of potential success or failure.
There have always been controllers made by other companys. If sony can't give it to you go somewhere else. Thats if you want a Ps3 and are brain dead. Eveything I've ever read about the Wii makes me want it more. I play WOW and am fairly addicted. I don't think I'm getting BC because I'm getting a Wii. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is going to be the most fun game ever played by man and if Will Wright gets his way EA will put SPORE on everything just like the sims. I almost take back what I said SPORE and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess are going to battle for BEST VIDEO GAME EVER title Halo is somewhere around Most Hyped-up Shitrag Ever.
If this is such a dealbreaker... why the success of Nintendo's wavebird?
Rumble is a lot like power steering for a car. You don't really realize it's there until you don't have it anymore.
.. it would have made that near-perfect wireless controller that much closer to pristine.
And I keep Rumble enabled on my 360, and I'm still only charging my (rechargable) batteries every 30-40 hours or so. I don't know why Nintendo didn't include it with the Wavebird
The 360 Wireless controller is the first one in a long time to do everything right. Looks, feels, rumble, rechargable (granted after you $$ the play and charge kit), and incredibly intuative controlls.
Just for reference, the arcade game Firefox (1983) had a rumble seat, and a joystick that not only rumbled but would jerk out of your hand when missiles went off near you! This was incredible for 1983 and... well I realize its not who did it first but who got the filed paperwork processed first (have you seen Brazil?)
..while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo)
Depending on how the questions were worded. If they were asking purely about the motion/tilt feature on a PS3 controler, I would say "I could care less if it's there."
However if they were asking if I was interested, wanted, the motion/tilt feature on the Wii controler. The answer would be, "heck yes!!"
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra
if Sony came to nintendo to licence it's rumble technology.
"It says a lot about Sony's incompetence" Sony decided to fight the lawsuit and MS decided to settle then buy a portion of the company. This was just a question of when to pick and choose your battles but if you took time to read immersions patents you would see that they are pretty generic in terms of functionality and use. Patents with loose wording just in case they could blanket a type of device or way of doing something. How you manage to tusn this around and blame Sony is a sign of how much anti-sony spin has been spewed on the internet lately.
wile rumble isnt anything cutting edge its whont be the same without it even thow it wouldent relly bother your gameplay that mutch its just nice to have it. how bought force feedback controlers now that would be fun.
You may want to take into account that MS is a (large?) investor in Immersion?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152917.html
The PS3 is 600 bucks. Without a game. The Wii is 250. With a game. It's not 700 vs. 200, but it's pretty damn close.
And Kaz Hirai himself said that games will cost between US$60 and US$100 (what he said amounted to "probably higher than 60 bucks, but less than 100"). That's not a rumor.
Immersion beat Sony in a rumble patent lawsuit. Sony then removed the rumble from the PS3 controller. Ever since, Immersion has been literally trolling the internet and anybody that'd listen to try to petition Sony to now LICENSE their rumble technology. This merely being the latest example. You got your money, Immersion. You could have settled but you didn't. Now please STFU.
Can you not just plug in a ps2 controller?
Newsflash: The 360 also costs too much. Yeah, this generation isn't the same. One of the consoles is priced okay, one costs too much and one costs so much that only freaking prince abdulla from saudi-arabia can afford one if he also wants to get a few controllers and a few games and maybe a TV that actually, you know, works (as in: doesn't look just the same as his old console) with his new console.
And we don't yet know how the pricing situation will turn out. Except that the PS3 games will cost more than the Wii games. If the studios can't be profitable with games at 60 bucks, the games will cost more. And if Sony can't produce (or sell) enough consoles, studios won't be able to sell enough games to become profitable.
My guess is that at least the top-tier games for the PS3 will eventually cost more than 60 bucks.
But of course I do. Check out your own damn link. You cut out the interesting part of that quote: "So, if it becomes a bit higher than $59, don't ding me, but, again, I don't expect it to be $100."
Kaz expects prices to be "a bit higher than 59$," and you can bet your, uhm, something bettable that you own which is worth a lot... You can bet that worthy thing that "a bit higher than 59" doesn't mean "60."