It seems it's gonna be the last Microsoft "sane" OS (no huge amounts of spying, no constant pushing of Ms' services, no ads in the OS, UI designed for kb + mouse usage).
That is certainly how it seems. It seems Microsoft has dropped all pretense of even trying to make a good desktop OS but instead is just doing anything it can that might make their stock price go up. Still you never know. Eventually some sanity may prevail at Redmond finally and they will just update Windows 7 rather than trying to by assholes just for its own sake. I don't see that happening any time soon though. The people in charge at Microsoft at the moment are some bad bad dudes and should probably be destroyed.
How do you teach someone who does not already know how to think? We are talking about teaching humans aren't we? But I suppose even mice can think well enough to be taught. Not calculus though. So what entities are we trying to teach that cannot think? Insects?
the target isn't actually human drivers (who as you mention will never actually follow speed instruction anyway)
You are probably assuming the speeds will err on the side of being too slow, but what if they erred on the side of being too fast? Then you would have the slowpoke cowards disobeying I guess. The problem with any such system in the US is that Americans in general are the most fearful and cautious group of humans probably in the world and the system would probably be designed based around worst cased scenarios and fear in general and would be very very slow as a result. Almost walking speed probably.
Those filthy dog lovers have finally shown the world that our once free country is now really a bunch of terrified little rats scurrying at the slightest sound. It is embarrassing that the rest of the world can see what pathetic cowards we really are. It's just sad. No other country in the world has this problem. Americans are the most cowardly in the entire world apparently. I wonder why. Also this highlights our incredible stupidity. How could anyone be so stupid as to think this is in any way reasonable or effective. No one with any common sense would do this. Somehow we have literally retarded people running things in our country. Also if they are willing to do this they are willing to do ANYTHING. How are they even allowed to do this? Isn't there a basic human right that is being violated here? I think there is.
Unfortunately these cards will probably cost so much that only corporations, aka 'full citizens,' will be able to afford them. Too bad. I'd love to play around with neural net stuff if the cards were not more expensive than their regular graphics cards, but obviously that's not going to happen. How is it that these companies used to be able to make a profit at $299 for their high end cards? Did their costs rise so dramatically?
Everyone who thinks that compelled speech is not evil is evil, yes. It is just so clearly unethical and immoral. It's basically anti-human because human societies that promote/allow such behavior have a strong tendency to be dystopian.
I find it more scary that the Windows series OS is finally crashing and burning. Windows 10 is not even a real OS anymore. It's just malware. There's nothing to upgrade to from Win 7/8. At least not yet.
Sane intelligent people have no choice but to stick with Windows 7. Unless you can run every app you need on Linux you need Windows and for the moment at least Windows = Windows 7 or maybe to a lesser extent 8. Maybe MS will change direction for Windows 11 or 12. Maybe not. But for now the Redmond Retards have left the rest of us with no choice.
I did have a degree, but if I had no paid work experience whatsoever would it really matter how well I could play with others? I mean would that even come up? My impression is that it would not even be a factor because there is no shortage of candidates who have the relevant work experience. This again goes back to the point about there being no real shortage of skilled candidates in the US. No need to import Indians with a questionable and almost unverifiable educational background. It really is not the case that retraining truck drivers is the only other option.
Would a shy, geeky, quiet, and antisocial person piss off the team? I've never worked on a programming team. So I have no idea what the people are like. I was just never the kind of person that people found charming or whatever. I was not and am not the kind of person that would win over a job interviewer with my interpersonal skills or charm. I have no idea how I would be as part of a team. Probably not great. Probably now I would almost definitely be hated. Millennials in particular really don't seem to like me and I have no idea why. I like them well enough. Maybe I remind them of their dads or something.
At least I am from the same culture. Well unless the team is mostly Indian. Actually I think I might get along better with Indians than with Americans. Either way I'd never get the job and that's why I had to choose a career entirely unrelated to my university major. I can't regret the education. I loved university actually. Would love to go back. So much more fun than working. But as a practical means of getting a job...at least for me it was useless. I was so naive to think I could get a job after getting my degree. Such a stupid, silly assumption. I thought anthropology majors etc were naive in terms of expecting a practical career after graduation but I was really just as naive to think I had a better chance: that my computer science major was somehow more practical. It wasn't at all.
Now with all the competition from India etc I think I might have had a more realistic assessment of my chances at finding work after graduating. Although maybe things are different now and the whole 'can't get experience without a job - can't get a job without experience' doesn't apply as much. Those years of job searching left a lasting impression on me. If I ever had kids you can bet I wouldn't be encouraging them to depend on the idea of finding work relevant to their major after graduating no matter how 'practical' their choice of major or how well the did in school or how high they scored on IQ testing etc. It's shocking to me how different the world seems to so many slashdotters here. Clearly my experience was vastly different from most of you. I guess none of you had any problem at all finding a job right after graduating.
I could not find any internships and I looked. For years. And if there were open source projects in the late 80s to early 90s I didn't know about them. I had code to show, but no one was interested in looking at it.
Does open source really work as a substitute for paid work experience now? If so that is a huge advantage compared to my era. The problem was that most companies weren't really interested in new graduates whether it was a paid position or not. At least as far as I could see. Based on my observation there was just no reason for them to bother with recent graduates when there were so many people who had or at least claimed ot have experience relevant to the job. Why should they bother?
And those things are online? And you can point at them on your CV and in an interview?
I wasn't necessarily talking about myself. I am old. This is all ancient history. I was asserting that such people exist however and could not find jobs in the early 90s at least. I see myself as one possible example of someone who should have been able to get a job at least at some price but could not because the whole system was just broken. There would be no interview. No CV. When I graduated there was no one hiring fresh graduates at least for the few years that I bothered to search before giving up. A BS + 1-3 years of experience was the absolute minimum requirement. They didn't interview people who didn't have that.
I did score 136 on a real, professionally administered IQ test when I was 18 and did quite well in school and got good grades at university etc and still could not find a job in any field even remotely related to my own after graduating. Even after literally years of searching. And I loved programming too. Still do. I wasn't one of those people that slashdotters talk about who is not a 'true' programmer. I was. For me it has always seemed like great fun. But no one has ever paid me to do it. I guess most fun things are like that though. It's tough to get paid to do something fun.
If so, I can name a bunch of companies that would love to hire you.
Maybe now they would, but it's about 30 years too late for me and would they really hire me without you being involved? I mean if they post ads online for instance do they allow for people with no work experience at all? Fresh graduates with only academic work? Programming is nice in a way because you really can present your work assuming an employer is interested in reading your code, but the problem is not just in Computer Science. It's the overall system that I was disillusioned with. Now I can't believe how naive I was as a teenager thinking that I could get a job just by being good and reasonably intelligent and hard working or even by presenting actual code to a potential employer. Nope. At least not at that time in the parts of the country where I looked. That's just how things were. Even the smallest companies would not hire anyone unless they had previous and probably relevant work experience.
No, it means that you have to be able to work with other people, because they're looking for someone who makes the team more productive in aggregate.
Yeah I guess that's a point, but how do they judge that? If you are shy and geeky does that mean you can't work well with others? Maybe to an extent that is true, but intelligence and creativity and coding skills don't makeup for any of that? I was not rude or mean or anything. Just shy and quiet and antisocial and not very likeable. And no I didn't smell, but most people tended not to like me that much. I guess that was more of a theoretical problem for me since I never had the requirements for any job listings. They all required work experience and I didn't have any. It just made the system seem even more impossible and stacked against me though. Anyway I didn't really intend this to be specifically about me. I can't believe I am the only example. It seemed like a pretty well known problem at the time.
It sounds like the companies themselves are the ones doing the whining at the moment,but yes I would expect them to do whatever they can to lower their labor costs. The point of this is not to stop companies from hiring labor from abroad. At least I hope it isn't. That would be stupid. Whether or not this actually increases the number of Americans who can get jobs working for US companies remains to be seen, but it's not impossible and the H1B program is just stupid. It should probably be shut down completely.
Microsoft has deprecated old versions of Windows on this hardware for a reason
Yes and we all know what that reason is. No one wants to run Windows 10. Almost everyone hates it. Probably has something to do with the fact that it is very badly designed malware disguised as an OS, but who knows. For whatever reason it is the new Windows ME. The difference is this time Microsoft wants to try to force people to use it and apparently are willing to spend millions of dollars to try to make that happen. I mean fuck they can't even give it away for free. How are they ever going to get end users to pay for their steaming pile of shite? They could have tried this with ME too but I guess the management at the time were not as cynical or evil as they are now. I can't think of a company off hand with as much contempt for their own customers as Microsoft.
Do you work for Microsoft? How much do they pay you to post this shit? This is not a different problem from every other OS release for the past 20-30 years.So let me see if I understand you correctly. What you are saying is that basically even though Windows 10 is a very very similar OS to Windows 7 and 8 under the hood except for some GUI changes (just for the sake of change) and lots of spyware and some retardo-features and a Windows Store it is not possible for people to write device drivers for almost exactly the same OS as Windows 10 because...SoCs didn't exist when Windows 7 was first made. Ok. Yeah I get it. Right...SoCs. Yeah because the GPU is now on the chip. Ok... I get it now. Thanks for explaining because that really makes all the difference. If the GPU were still discrete then we could continue to use Windows 7 then? It's only this SoC thing?
What has really changed is that Microsoft has finally created such a piece of shit OS that even non-techies don't want to use it and so they feel the need to do everything they can to shove their new OS down people's throats. There has always been new hardware and new OS releases. There is nothing new about this 'problem'. What's new is Microsoft's strategy. Most software companies would be afraid to bend over their own customers and try to shove ever larger dildos up their asses, but not Microsoft.
Use of the word 'Period' to indicate that the writer is interested in finalising the discussion after having made their point
Except that is not what it means. I don't know where you got that from. In fact it has nothing to do with persuasion at all. It is not an attempt at persuasion. It is not an attempt to end the discussion either. I can see how you might make that mistake if you based the meaning entirely on context, but you have been misunderstanding its meaning all these years. It's really just a form of emphasis I guess. Like a semantic form of italics. It is a way to convey meaning. Not to convince.You may not like it just as some people don't like the use of italics, but it's a perfectly valid form of communication.
It's not just processors but chipsets. You can't expect support for new SATA, USB, thunderbolt and other types of controllers. You can't expect new wifi drivers or support for the latest GPU. That's just not reasonable.
Why isn't it reasonable? Linux can do it. There are definitely programmers out there who can right the code to support the hardware. You know who hires such people? Motherboard manufacturers like Asus, Gigabyte, AsRock, and MSI. They do it because they believe in helping people. They do it purely out of kindness...oh wait. Actually they do it because a lot of potential customers are running older and much better operating systems and don't want to have to upgrade just to buy a new motherboard. They do it because they want to make money selling their newest motherboards to people who may not otherwise buy them. It's called capitalism. It's called competition. If an Asus motherboard has drivers for Windows 7 but Gigabyte does not guess which brand I'm going to buy if I am running Windows7 and don't want to downgrade to malware which is inferior in almost every way?
Actually I am still waiting to see if Microsoft can really convince all the Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers to *not* write drivers that the market clearly wants so very badly. I guess it's just a matter of money though. If Microsoft pays them enough not to write them then maybe they won't. It's just so fucked that Microsoft really is that evil. This is a form of market failure btw. This is one example of capitalism failing to efficiently allocate resources. In a free market Microsoft should have died off or gone niche a long time ago. Why are these retards even still around?
I'm generally a laissez faire kind of guy when it comes to government involvement in the market but this seems like a clear example of collusion and monopolistic abuse of power to me. I wish some government would step in and tell them they can't do this sort of thing and spank them at least a little if they continue anyway. I really think we'd all be much better off if someone just nuked the whole Redmond campus. Maybe from orbit. Just to be sure. If I were king of the planet I would just put them out of business and that would be that. Corporate Death Penalty for their crimes against humanity. Let someone competent who actually cares about the quality of their product step into the vacuum to replace them. I mean is there some absolute requirement that all large corporations must be led by sociopaths? If there is at least most aren't quite so evil or useless.
Microsoft's job is to make money for their shareholders, and that's it, not to make people happy
No it is not. Their job has nothing to do with their shareholders. Their shareholders can go fuck themselves. They don't matter. Their actual job is to deliver a quality product that gets better with each release instead of worse and which is beneficial to their customers instead of actively being harmful to them. If Microsoft did not essentially have monopoly power in their market segment they would have been out of business a long time ago. They are probably the most inept software company in the world. A company's job is in fact to make their customers happy...with their product. Microsoft is clearly not doing that. Otherwise they would not have to pull stunts like this to try to force people to use their newer and crappier versions that almost everyone hates.
If you don't want to use Windows 10, there are always alternatives.
Yes. The best being Windows 7. The second best being Windows XP if your motherboard and other hardware has drivers for it. If you meant Linux well surely you were already dual booting that. The only point of running Windows is for software that does not have a viable Linux equivalent and there are lots unfortunately.
Microsoft has been evil and inept for a long time, but they are reaching new levels of both pure evil and ineptitude with Windows 10. I won't downgrade to that piece of shit while I am still breathing. It is unfortunate that Microsoft wants to penalize me for using their own software just because it isn't their newest and shiniest version. Well it would be their newest and shiniest version if they weren't such stupid incompetent and evil fuckwits who make their software worse with every version instead of better. I am hoping that sanity will eventually prevail over there at Retard Central and eventually a XP or Windows 7 equivalent will be released at some point, but I fear that this may be the time when those cunts never return from their journey into Retardoland. A massive software company entirely run by and for sociopaths with Downs syndrome. Fuck you Microsoft. I will wait for some version of Windows that at least tries to serve the needs of the user rather than be some uber-cynical money grab.
Really the lack of updates isn't a major problem anyway. You should really be doing whatever you can with Linux or OS X if you care so much about security. For software you need to run that is Windows only just keep using 7 (or 8 I guess) until defeated by a lack of drivers. Drivers, particularly motherboard chipset drivers, are the real problem and Microsoft has colluded with Intel and possibly even AMD to try to prevent hardware manufacturers from writing drivers that support Windows 7. This is despite the fact that Windows 7 support does not end until 2020 three long years from now. So there is no excuse except that Microsoft thinks they will make more money this way.
When demand exceeds existing supply, prices must rise
Since when has the demand for skilled labor ever exceeded supply? Unfortunately for people trying to sell their labor there is a vast overabundance of other human beings around the world trying to do exactly the same thing. What the world lacks is buyers. So of course it's a buyers market and they get to make the rules and such rules tend to be skewed badly in their favor. Where I live people will work for $5 -$7 a day usually and they won't complain about having to work for that much. Borders are currently a thing, but eventually you are going to have to compete with millions or even billions of such people. That is the hard reality of a Capitalist free market. Just imagine if Trump reversed his closed immigration policies and instead fully opened the US borders to anyone who wanted to live there or at least to anyone with a university degree. Now that would be a free market. That would be Capitalism doing what it does best, but it would suck for a lot of Americans. Overall I do think human happiness would be maximized and human misery minimized in such a border-free world though. Or maybe everyone unlucky enough to be a wage slave would be miserable. Hard to say.
The bad is they do only hire Indians once an Indian manager is in place
This happens a lot in shit jobs too actually. Or at least as much as they can without getting into trouble. As soon as an immigrant makes the jump to manager they pretty much only seem to hire people from their own country. In the case of shit jobs it really doesn't matter. Pretty much anyone can do those jobs. So since it doesn't matter I guess they want to help their countrymen to do what they did and succeed in their new home. It would be nice if they would occasionally hire an American though as a kind of affirmative action balancing thing. I guess it's one of the downsides of being an immigrant country. Hey at least you may be able to find good Indian food there. Where I live there is not a single good Indian restaurant in the whole country. Being an immigrant country has its rewards too.
I have never been to India but I have read about both the education system there being very bad in general and that the India Institute of Technology is pretty damn good. And maybe a few other prestigious schools with extremely low acceptance rates. So the real answer is probably 'it depends'.
However I would guess that at least some of those so called degrees really are not comparable to degrees from US or UK universities. It's hard to know for sure unless you go sit in on some of the classes or at least look at the curriculum to see what they are really studying. Are US corporations who treat US and Indian degrees as equivalent actually checking this sort of thing?
Actually it was the early 90s and it was mainly the old 'can't get experience without a job and can't get a job without experience' problem. Has the world finally figured out a solution for this or are there still PhDs bagging groceries like in those days? When I was looking I could not find a single coding job that advertised 'no experience necessary' as you could find in other fields. An 'entry level' position still required 1-3 years of real world paid job experience. Seriously no one wanted to hire someone without experience. No one. Full stop. Or at least you really did have to know someone if you wanted to get a job straight out of university. Hell my cousin got a job coding for a large company even though he had pretty much no experience and no computer science degree, but that was in the late 80s when a degree was still optional occasionally. He had a friend who worked at the company who helped him get the job.
A friend recently told me, "Everyone lies on their resume". And in fact he has gotten more than one job solely because he was willing to lie about past experience and even education. I guess that could be one way out of the no one wanting to hire fresh graduates problem: pretend not to be one. I did not want to lie though. I eventually just gave up on the idea of getting paid to code. No one was interested. Not at any price. Not that price was even a factor. It's not like I could lowball my own salary and get a job that way. There were no systems in place to do that. I'm guessing there still aren't.
The labor market is so incredibly inefficient. Being smart and hard working should make it easier to get a job, but it doesn't really. There are no systems in place for the buyers of the labor to be able to distinguish between the smart applicants and the ones who just pretend to be. In fact from what I've read how you look is more important. As a species I think we are really overrated. Not Great Apes. Just apes. I tend to blame corporations for some of this inefficiency. They are so big and the responsibility for everything is so spread out that there is a tendency to not give a fuck about inefficiencies in the system.
In the society and culture where I live at the moment it's more like 99% sociopaths. I kid you not. That 1% figure of yours may be right for the US though. In other places it seems to vary a great deal even going quite a bit lower as well. There is more intraspecies diversity out there than you probably realize.
Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr.
Well it depends a lot on how you define "qualified". I'm guessing that not being willing to work for that little is part of your definition. So it's a slam dunk. Considering the fact that college graduates with no work experience are willing to work for free (interns) I would be surprised if there were no highly intelligent graduates willing to work for even less than that. Maybe not forever, but for a while. Of course Indians living in India will work for a hell of a lot less than $35,000/year.
Turns out floating through your undergraduate, gaining no work experience, and being terrible at interviewing makes you ill prepared to work in the field. Who knew.
Floating as in being one of the best students in your class for instance? Floating because you are so smart that the classes and assignments are too easy and you spend most of your time working on your own projects? And how are computer science students supposed to get work experience if no one wants to hire them? Unless they are Indian of course. And lie on their resumes. The whole corporate HR hiring system is so idiotic and badly broken those monkeys have zero right to complain about there not being enough skilled American workers. There are plenty of them. Highly intelligent and if anything overeducated for the wage-slave work they are being hired for. If I had known just how badly broken the system was when I started at university I would not even have even planned on ever applying for a job. I would just have gone directly to planning my own business instead.
Working for other people means you have to be likeable. If you are the kind of person people don't like it does not matter how clever you are or how good you are at what you do. You'll be lucky to get a job working at Walmart. What we need a lot more than stupid H1B labor importation programs is a good and fair system for buying and selling skilled labor. One that ideally does not even depend on university degrees but uses talent and intelligence as the only metric. I'd much rather hire a smarter and harder working non degree holder than a dumber and lazier but more educated one, but of course the corporate world I think just doesn't care enough to bother trying to improve the laughably bad system we currently have. Why is it for instance that the price you are willing to sell your labor for has little to no effect on how easy it is to get a job? Well unless you were born in India. Unfortunately I was unlucky enough to have been born in the USA and so couldn't find a job in the field I loved. I wonder if putting an Indian name on my job applications would have helped.
Slashdot Mirror
Could the title be interpreted as a threat to the hackers? I wonder if it was recently changed.
It seems it's gonna be the last Microsoft "sane" OS (no huge amounts of spying, no constant pushing of Ms' services, no ads in the OS, UI designed for kb + mouse usage).
That is certainly how it seems. It seems Microsoft has dropped all pretense of even trying to make a good desktop OS but instead is just doing anything it can that might make their stock price go up. Still you never know. Eventually some sanity may prevail at Redmond finally and they will just update Windows 7 rather than trying to by assholes just for its own sake. I don't see that happening any time soon though. The people in charge at Microsoft at the moment are some bad bad dudes and should probably be destroyed.
How do you teach someone who does not already know how to think? We are talking about teaching humans aren't we? But I suppose even mice can think well enough to be taught. Not calculus though. So what entities are we trying to teach that cannot think? Insects?
the target isn't actually human drivers (who as you mention will never actually follow speed instruction anyway)
You are probably assuming the speeds will err on the side of being too slow, but what if they erred on the side of being too fast? Then you would have the slowpoke cowards disobeying I guess. The problem with any such system in the US is that Americans in general are the most fearful and cautious group of humans probably in the world and the system would probably be designed based around worst cased scenarios and fear in general and would be very very slow as a result. Almost walking speed probably.
Those filthy dog lovers have finally shown the world that our once free country is now really a bunch of terrified little rats scurrying at the slightest sound. It is embarrassing that the rest of the world can see what pathetic cowards we really are. It's just sad. No other country in the world has this problem. Americans are the most cowardly in the entire world apparently. I wonder why. Also this highlights our incredible stupidity. How could anyone be so stupid as to think this is in any way reasonable or effective. No one with any common sense would do this. Somehow we have literally retarded people running things in our country. Also if they are willing to do this they are willing to do ANYTHING. How are they even allowed to do this? Isn't there a basic human right that is being violated here? I think there is.
Unfortunately these cards will probably cost so much that only corporations, aka 'full citizens,' will be able to afford them. Too bad. I'd love to play around with neural net stuff if the cards were not more expensive than their regular graphics cards, but obviously that's not going to happen. How is it that these companies used to be able to make a profit at $299 for their high end cards? Did their costs rise so dramatically?
Everyone who thinks that compelled speech is not evil is evil, yes. It is just so clearly unethical and immoral. It's basically anti-human because human societies that promote/allow such behavior have a strong tendency to be dystopian.
I find it more scary that the Windows series OS is finally crashing and burning. Windows 10 is not even a real OS anymore. It's just malware. There's nothing to upgrade to from Win 7/8. At least not yet.
Sane intelligent people have no choice but to stick with Windows 7. Unless you can run every app you need on Linux you need Windows and for the moment at least Windows = Windows 7 or maybe to a lesser extent 8. Maybe MS will change direction for Windows 11 or 12. Maybe not. But for now the Redmond Retards have left the rest of us with no choice.
I did have a degree, but if I had no paid work experience whatsoever would it really matter how well I could play with others? I mean would that even come up? My impression is that it would not even be a factor because there is no shortage of candidates who have the relevant work experience. This again goes back to the point about there being no real shortage of skilled candidates in the US. No need to import Indians with a questionable and almost unverifiable educational background. It really is not the case that retraining truck drivers is the only other option.
Would a shy, geeky, quiet, and antisocial person piss off the team? I've never worked on a programming team. So I have no idea what the people are like. I was just never the kind of person that people found charming or whatever. I was not and am not the kind of person that would win over a job interviewer with my interpersonal skills or charm. I have no idea how I would be as part of a team. Probably not great. Probably now I would almost definitely be hated. Millennials in particular really don't seem to like me and I have no idea why. I like them well enough. Maybe I remind them of their dads or something.
At least I am from the same culture. Well unless the team is mostly Indian. Actually I think I might get along better with Indians than with Americans. Either way I'd never get the job and that's why I had to choose a career entirely unrelated to my university major. I can't regret the education. I loved university actually. Would love to go back. So much more fun than working. But as a practical means of getting a job...at least for me it was useless. I was so naive to think I could get a job after getting my degree. Such a stupid, silly assumption. I thought anthropology majors etc were naive in terms of expecting a practical career after graduation but I was really just as naive to think I had a better chance: that my computer science major was somehow more practical. It wasn't at all.
Now with all the competition from India etc I think I might have had a more realistic assessment of my chances at finding work after graduating. Although maybe things are different now and the whole 'can't get experience without a job - can't get a job without experience' doesn't apply as much. Those years of job searching left a lasting impression on me. If I ever had kids you can bet I wouldn't be encouraging them to depend on the idea of finding work relevant to their major after graduating no matter how 'practical' their choice of major or how well the did in school or how high they scored on IQ testing etc. It's shocking to me how different the world seems to so many slashdotters here. Clearly my experience was vastly different from most of you. I guess none of you had any problem at all finding a job right after graduating.
Internships and open source contributions..
I could not find any internships and I looked. For years. And if there were open source projects in the late 80s to early 90s I didn't know about them. I had code to show, but no one was interested in looking at it.
Does open source really work as a substitute for paid work experience now? If so that is a huge advantage compared to my era. The problem was that most companies weren't really interested in new graduates whether it was a paid position or not. At least as far as I could see. Based on my observation there was just no reason for them to bother with recent graduates when there were so many people who had or at least claimed ot have experience relevant to the job. Why should they bother?
And those things are online? And you can point at them on your CV and in an interview?
I wasn't necessarily talking about myself. I am old. This is all ancient history. I was asserting that such people exist however and could not find jobs in the early 90s at least. I see myself as one possible example of someone who should have been able to get a job at least at some price but could not because the whole system was just broken. There would be no interview. No CV. When I graduated there was no one hiring fresh graduates at least for the few years that I bothered to search before giving up. A BS + 1-3 years of experience was the absolute minimum requirement. They didn't interview people who didn't have that.
I did score 136 on a real, professionally administered IQ test when I was 18 and did quite well in school and got good grades at university etc and still could not find a job in any field even remotely related to my own after graduating. Even after literally years of searching. And I loved programming too. Still do. I wasn't one of those people that slashdotters talk about who is not a 'true' programmer. I was. For me it has always seemed like great fun. But no one has ever paid me to do it. I guess most fun things are like that though. It's tough to get paid to do something fun.
If so, I can name a bunch of companies that would love to hire you.
Maybe now they would, but it's about 30 years too late for me and would they really hire me without you being involved? I mean if they post ads online for instance do they allow for people with no work experience at all? Fresh graduates with only academic work? Programming is nice in a way because you really can present your work assuming an employer is interested in reading your code, but the problem is not just in Computer Science. It's the overall system that I was disillusioned with. Now I can't believe how naive I was as a teenager thinking that I could get a job just by being good and reasonably intelligent and hard working or even by presenting actual code to a potential employer. Nope. At least not at that time in the parts of the country where I looked. That's just how things were. Even the smallest companies would not hire anyone unless they had previous and probably relevant work experience.
No, it means that you have to be able to work with other people, because they're looking for someone who makes the team more productive in aggregate.
Yeah I guess that's a point, but how do they judge that? If you are shy and geeky does that mean you can't work well with others? Maybe to an extent that is true, but intelligence and creativity and coding skills don't makeup for any of that? I was not rude or mean or anything. Just shy and quiet and antisocial and not very likeable. And no I didn't smell, but most people tended not to like me that much. I guess that was more of a theoretical problem for me since I never had the requirements for any job listings. They all required work experience and I didn't have any. It just made the system seem even more impossible and stacked against me though. Anyway I didn't really intend this to be specifically about me. I can't believe I am the only example. It seemed like a pretty well known problem at the time.
It sounds like the companies themselves are the ones doing the whining at the moment,but yes I would expect them to do whatever they can to lower their labor costs. The point of this is not to stop companies from hiring labor from abroad. At least I hope it isn't. That would be stupid. Whether or not this actually increases the number of Americans who can get jobs working for US companies remains to be seen, but it's not impossible and the H1B program is just stupid. It should probably be shut down completely.
Microsoft has deprecated old versions of Windows on this hardware for a reason
Yes and we all know what that reason is. No one wants to run Windows 10. Almost everyone hates it. Probably has something to do with the fact that it is very badly designed malware disguised as an OS, but who knows. For whatever reason it is the new Windows ME. The difference is this time Microsoft wants to try to force people to use it and apparently are willing to spend millions of dollars to try to make that happen. I mean fuck they can't even give it away for free. How are they ever going to get end users to pay for their steaming pile of shite? They could have tried this with ME too but I guess the management at the time were not as cynical or evil as they are now. I can't think of a company off hand with as much contempt for their own customers as Microsoft.
Do you work for Microsoft? How much do they pay you to post this shit? This is not a different problem from every other OS release for the past 20-30 years.So let me see if I understand you correctly. What you are saying is that basically even though Windows 10 is a very very similar OS to Windows 7 and 8 under the hood except for some GUI changes (just for the sake of change) and lots of spyware and some retardo-features and a Windows Store it is not possible for people to write device drivers for almost exactly the same OS as Windows 10 because...SoCs didn't exist when Windows 7 was first made. Ok. Yeah I get it. Right...SoCs. Yeah because the GPU is now on the chip. Ok... I get it now. Thanks for explaining because that really makes all the difference. If the GPU were still discrete then we could continue to use Windows 7 then? It's only this SoC thing?
What has really changed is that Microsoft has finally created such a piece of shit OS that even non-techies don't want to use it and so they feel the need to do everything they can to shove their new OS down people's throats. There has always been new hardware and new OS releases. There is nothing new about this 'problem'. What's new is Microsoft's strategy. Most software companies would be afraid to bend over their own customers and try to shove ever larger dildos up their asses, but not Microsoft.
Use of the word 'Period' to indicate that the writer is interested in finalising the discussion after having made their point
Except that is not what it means. I don't know where you got that from. In fact it has nothing to do with persuasion at all. It is not an attempt at persuasion. It is not an attempt to end the discussion either. I can see how you might make that mistake if you based the meaning entirely on context, but you have been misunderstanding its meaning all these years. It's really just a form of emphasis I guess. Like a semantic form of italics. It is a way to convey meaning. Not to convince.You may not like it just as some people don't like the use of italics, but it's a perfectly valid form of communication.
It's not just processors but chipsets. You can't expect support for new SATA, USB, thunderbolt and other types of controllers. You can't expect new wifi drivers or support for the latest GPU. That's just not reasonable.
Why isn't it reasonable? Linux can do it. There are definitely programmers out there who can right the code to support the hardware. You know who hires such people? Motherboard manufacturers like Asus, Gigabyte, AsRock, and MSI. They do it because they believe in helping people. They do it purely out of kindness...oh wait. Actually they do it because a lot of potential customers are running older and much better operating systems and don't want to have to upgrade just to buy a new motherboard. They do it because they want to make money selling their newest motherboards to people who may not otherwise buy them. It's called capitalism. It's called competition. If an Asus motherboard has drivers for Windows 7 but Gigabyte does not guess which brand I'm going to buy if I am running Windows7 and don't want to downgrade to malware which is inferior in almost every way?
Actually I am still waiting to see if Microsoft can really convince all the Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers to *not* write drivers that the market clearly wants so very badly. I guess it's just a matter of money though. If Microsoft pays them enough not to write them then maybe they won't. It's just so fucked that Microsoft really is that evil. This is a form of market failure btw. This is one example of capitalism failing to efficiently allocate resources. In a free market Microsoft should have died off or gone niche a long time ago. Why are these retards even still around?
I'm generally a laissez faire kind of guy when it comes to government involvement in the market but this seems like a clear example of collusion and monopolistic abuse of power to me. I wish some government would step in and tell them they can't do this sort of thing and spank them at least a little if they continue anyway. I really think we'd all be much better off if someone just nuked the whole Redmond campus. Maybe from orbit. Just to be sure. If I were king of the planet I would just put them out of business and that would be that. Corporate Death Penalty for their crimes against humanity. Let someone competent who actually cares about the quality of their product step into the vacuum to replace them. I mean is there some absolute requirement that all large corporations must be led by sociopaths? If there is at least most aren't quite so evil or useless.
Microsoft's job is to make money for their shareholders, and that's it, not to make people happy
No it is not. Their job has nothing to do with their shareholders. Their shareholders can go fuck themselves. They don't matter. Their actual job is to deliver a quality product that gets better with each release instead of worse and which is beneficial to their customers instead of actively being harmful to them. If Microsoft did not essentially have monopoly power in their market segment they would have been out of business a long time ago. They are probably the most inept software company in the world. A company's job is in fact to make their customers happy...with their product. Microsoft is clearly not doing that. Otherwise they would not have to pull stunts like this to try to force people to use their newer and crappier versions that almost everyone hates.
If you don't want to use Windows 10, there are always alternatives.
Yes. The best being Windows 7. The second best being Windows XP if your motherboard and other hardware has drivers for it. If you meant Linux well surely you were already dual booting that. The only point of running Windows is for software that does not have a viable Linux equivalent and there are lots unfortunately.
Microsoft has been evil and inept for a long time, but they are reaching new levels of both pure evil and ineptitude with Windows 10. I won't downgrade to that piece of shit while I am still breathing. It is unfortunate that Microsoft wants to penalize me for using their own software just because it isn't their newest and shiniest version. Well it would be their newest and shiniest version if they weren't such stupid incompetent and evil fuckwits who make their software worse with every version instead of better. I am hoping that sanity will eventually prevail over there at Retard Central and eventually a XP or Windows 7 equivalent will be released at some point, but I fear that this may be the time when those cunts never return from their journey into Retardoland. A massive software company entirely run by and for sociopaths with Downs syndrome. Fuck you Microsoft. I will wait for some version of Windows that at least tries to serve the needs of the user rather than be some uber-cynical money grab.
Really the lack of updates isn't a major problem anyway. You should really be doing whatever you can with Linux or OS X if you care so much about security. For software you need to run that is Windows only just keep using 7 (or 8 I guess) until defeated by a lack of drivers. Drivers, particularly motherboard chipset drivers, are the real problem and Microsoft has colluded with Intel and possibly even AMD to try to prevent hardware manufacturers from writing drivers that support Windows 7. This is despite the fact that Windows 7 support does not end until 2020 three long years from now. So there is no excuse except that Microsoft thinks they will make more money this way.
When demand exceeds existing supply, prices must rise
Since when has the demand for skilled labor ever exceeded supply? Unfortunately for people trying to sell their labor there is a vast overabundance of other human beings around the world trying to do exactly the same thing. What the world lacks is buyers. So of course it's a buyers market and they get to make the rules and such rules tend to be skewed badly in their favor. Where I live people will work for $5 -$7 a day usually and they won't complain about having to work for that much. Borders are currently a thing, but eventually you are going to have to compete with millions or even billions of such people. That is the hard reality of a Capitalist free market. Just imagine if Trump reversed his closed immigration policies and instead fully opened the US borders to anyone who wanted to live there or at least to anyone with a university degree. Now that would be a free market. That would be Capitalism doing what it does best, but it would suck for a lot of Americans. Overall I do think human happiness would be maximized and human misery minimized in such a border-free world though. Or maybe everyone unlucky enough to be a wage slave would be miserable. Hard to say.
The bad is they do only hire Indians once an Indian manager is in place
This happens a lot in shit jobs too actually. Or at least as much as they can without getting into trouble. As soon as an immigrant makes the jump to manager they pretty much only seem to hire people from their own country. In the case of shit jobs it really doesn't matter. Pretty much anyone can do those jobs. So since it doesn't matter I guess they want to help their countrymen to do what they did and succeed in their new home. It would be nice if they would occasionally hire an American though as a kind of affirmative action balancing thing. I guess it's one of the downsides of being an immigrant country. Hey at least you may be able to find good Indian food there. Where I live there is not a single good Indian restaurant in the whole country. Being an immigrant country has its rewards too.
I have never been to India but I have read about both the education system there being very bad in general and that the India Institute of Technology is pretty damn good. And maybe a few other prestigious schools with extremely low acceptance rates. So the real answer is probably 'it depends'.
However I would guess that at least some of those so called degrees really are not comparable to degrees from US or UK universities. It's hard to know for sure unless you go sit in on some of the classes or at least look at the curriculum to see what they are really studying. Are US corporations who treat US and Indian degrees as equivalent actually checking this sort of thing?
Actually it was the early 90s and it was mainly the old 'can't get experience without a job and can't get a job without experience' problem. Has the world finally figured out a solution for this or are there still PhDs bagging groceries like in those days? When I was looking I could not find a single coding job that advertised 'no experience necessary' as you could find in other fields. An 'entry level' position still required 1-3 years of real world paid job experience. Seriously no one wanted to hire someone without experience. No one. Full stop. Or at least you really did have to know someone if you wanted to get a job straight out of university. Hell my cousin got a job coding for a large company even though he had pretty much no experience and no computer science degree, but that was in the late 80s when a degree was still optional occasionally. He had a friend who worked at the company who helped him get the job.
A friend recently told me, "Everyone lies on their resume". And in fact he has gotten more than one job solely because he was willing to lie about past experience and even education. I guess that could be one way out of the no one wanting to hire fresh graduates problem: pretend not to be one. I did not want to lie though. I eventually just gave up on the idea of getting paid to code. No one was interested. Not at any price. Not that price was even a factor. It's not like I could lowball my own salary and get a job that way. There were no systems in place to do that. I'm guessing there still aren't.
The labor market is so incredibly inefficient. Being smart and hard working should make it easier to get a job, but it doesn't really. There are no systems in place for the buyers of the labor to be able to distinguish between the smart applicants and the ones who just pretend to be. In fact from what I've read how you look is more important. As a species I think we are really overrated. Not Great Apes. Just apes. I tend to blame corporations for some of this inefficiency. They are so big and the responsibility for everything is so spread out that there is a tendency to not give a fuck about inefficiencies in the system.
In the society and culture where I live at the moment it's more like 99% sociopaths. I kid you not. That 1% figure of yours may be right for the US though. In other places it seems to vary a great deal even going quite a bit lower as well. There is more intraspecies diversity out there than you probably realize.
Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr.
Well it depends a lot on how you define "qualified". I'm guessing that not being willing to work for that little is part of your definition. So it's a slam dunk. Considering the fact that college graduates with no work experience are willing to work for free (interns) I would be surprised if there were no highly intelligent graduates willing to work for even less than that. Maybe not forever, but for a while. Of course Indians living in India will work for a hell of a lot less than $35,000/year.
Turns out floating through your undergraduate, gaining no work experience, and being terrible at interviewing makes you ill prepared to work in the field. Who knew.
Floating as in being one of the best students in your class for instance? Floating because you are so smart that the classes and assignments are too easy and you spend most of your time working on your own projects? And how are computer science students supposed to get work experience if no one wants to hire them? Unless they are Indian of course. And lie on their resumes. The whole corporate HR hiring system is so idiotic and badly broken those monkeys have zero right to complain about there not being enough skilled American workers. There are plenty of them. Highly intelligent and if anything overeducated for the wage-slave work they are being hired for. If I had known just how badly broken the system was when I started at university I would not even have even planned on ever applying for a job. I would just have gone directly to planning my own business instead.
Working for other people means you have to be likeable. If you are the kind of person people don't like it does not matter how clever you are or how good you are at what you do. You'll be lucky to get a job working at Walmart. What we need a lot more than stupid H1B labor importation programs is a good and fair system for buying and selling skilled labor. One that ideally does not even depend on university degrees but uses talent and intelligence as the only metric. I'd much rather hire a smarter and harder working non degree holder than a dumber and lazier but more educated one, but of course the corporate world I think just doesn't care enough to bother trying to improve the laughably bad system we currently have. Why is it for instance that the price you are willing to sell your labor for has little to no effect on how easy it is to get a job? Well unless you were born in India. Unfortunately I was unlucky enough to have been born in the USA and so couldn't find a job in the field I loved. I wonder if putting an Indian name on my job applications would have helped.