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Trump To Overhaul H-1B Visa Program To Encourage Hiring Americans (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: In a bid to court working class voters, Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Tuesday to revamp a temporary visa program used to bring foreign workers to fill jobs in the U.S. The president will use a visit to a manufacturing company in Kenosha, Wisconsin, a crucial state he snatched from Hillary Clinton in the election, to promote his latest "Buy America Hire America" offensive. Trump's executive order will call on government departments to introduce reforms to ensure that H-1B visas are awarded to the "most skilled or highest paid applicants," a senior administration official said. The executive order will also call for the "strict enforcement" of laws governing entry to the U.S. of labor from overseas, with a view to creating higher wages and employment rates for U.S. workers. The order will also call on government departments to "take prompt action to crack down on fraud and abuse" in the immigration system, a senior administration official said. The administration official sad: "Right now H-1B visas are awarded by random lottery and many of you will be surprised to know that about 80% of H-1B workers are paid less than the median wage in their fields. Only 5% to 6%, depending on the year, of H-1B workers command the highest wage tier recognized by the Department of Labor. [...] If you change that current system that awards visas randomly, without regard for skill or wage, to a skills-based awarding, it makes it extremely difficult to use the visa to replace or undercut American workers [...] It's a very elegant way of solving very systemic problems in the H-1B guest worker visa."

619 comments

  1. Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We are making America Great Again!

    1. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remind me again, which particular past greatness are we shooting for?

    2. Re:Make America Great by PoopJuggler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have a really low standard for "great" apparently. I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

    3. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly has he done wrong so far?

    4. Re: Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When I had a mullet and a T-Bird.

    5. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not a US citizen I see.

    6. Re: Make America Great by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women." - Conan the Barbarian

    7. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Overall happiness?

      Ha. Impossible. We could have free birth control and free sex toys and free robot prostitutes and free drugs and people would be as depressed and unhappy as ever.

    8. Re:Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      What previous President(s) did that?

    9. Re:Make America Great by gatkinso · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would agree with that assessment of great, however using that metric, no nation has ever been great.

      So now we fall back to "richest and most powerful."

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    10. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What previous President(s) did that?

      Didn't you listen to what Obama SAID he'd do?

    11. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some (many?) have tried, but reality makes it difficult to do and difficult to see. We don't have dictators, so those in charge have to work with people who want the opposite of those ideals (many conservatives oppose social advancement and education because god...). There's only so much time, so sometimes you concentrate on some ideals more than others. For sure though not a good job is done in these regards, and Trump is looking so far to be one of the worst.

    12. Re:Make America Great by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      "To form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." Of the items you list, only equity of the nations citizenry is part of his job goals.

    13. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well he's shown a great disregard for scientific evidence (irreversible climate change looks ever more likely). He's shown himself to be incapable of basic reasoning and is trigger happy with no idea what he's firing at (although he knew full well what cake he was eating at the time). He's fired missiles for personal gain (a president really shouldn't be allowed to have such financial interest in arms manufacturing). He's not had any positive impact at all that I'm aware of (besides an increase in the fortunes of some of Americas biggest companies, but we all know the trickle down effect is a complete fallacy).

    14. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What exactly has he done wrong so far?

      The better question is what he's done right. So far he has signed an unconstitutional executive order, inflamed tensions with Russia and North Korea, sent his press secretary out to blatantly and obviously lie to the press, vacillated on his positions regarding Syria, China, and NATO, accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence, and acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated. He tweets at 3 AM about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance at his old job, like some teenage girl jealous that Brian likes Becky now.

      The man is a boor and a buffoon, and an embarrassment to our country. I'm still slightly astounded that about 27% of the population doesn't recognize that.

    15. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When it was a lot easier to get jobs, without worrying about them being eliminated and sent overseas. When products were of quality make and made in America

    16. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ask not what your president said he would do during a campaign and instead ask whether he's actually achieved anything. I think the last commenter has hit the nail on the head.

    17. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      S yu define great as unatainably unbelieveably peefect in every way ,hich is impossible. You must be a liberal. You have to pay commis. Nothing comes easy or for free. It starts with WORK.

    18. Re:Make America Great by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      I would agree with that assessment of great, however using that metric, no nation has ever been great.

      But various nations have been closer to great at various times. There's no reason to stop striving for greatness, even when it's being used as a code word for whiteness by Cheeto Combover.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      So, none?

    20. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'm still slightly astounded that about 27% of the population doesn't recognize that.

      "Just give him a chance!!"

    21. Re:Make America Great by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "He fired missiles for personal gain..." Are you kidding?! That has to be the dumbest possible point you could make.

      The bottom line is Trump has attacked intellectual honesty and diplomacy, which fails to create an environment where issues can be discussed openly and honestly and actions taken based on said discourse.

      He has charted an ideological course on many issues (such as healthcare) that get us further from addressing the real issues. We are setting ourselves back a decade or more in controlling healthcare costs.

      He has also done a few things that might not align with my beliefs, but that I recognize as likely necessary or reasonable (in context). I don't take issues with the moab or tomahawks, although I am quite curious as to what will ultimately happen in/with NK.

    22. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me help you man.

      https://youtu.be/hCuMWrfXG4E

      Wife beaters are coming back. Finally!!!

    23. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, and you know it. Daddy lied to you again. I know it hurts, but you need to face the truth.

    24. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      an unconstitutional executive order

      Struck down by courts so system working just fine. So did Obama.

      inflamed tensions with Russia

      were already sour there was just a chance to improve. So what?

      and North Korea

      Were already sour, so what?

      obviously lie to the press

      Like obama.

      vacillated on his positions regarding Syria,

      What is the correct response to chemical weapons use? Obama's "line in the sand" that makes him and the US a joke?

      China

      How?

      NATO

      Oh, yes. Asking for member nations to pay their agreed upon amount is vacillation.

      accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence

      More so than Russian intervention of the elections. There is at least proof that Trump and some people associated to the campaign had conversations listened in on.

      acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated.

      Funny way of acting surprised. Maybe you pick the hill you die on and healthcare isn't the hill he cares about?

      He tweets at 3 AM about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance at his old job, like some teenage girl jealous that Brian likes Becky now.

      So what?

      I'm still slightly astounded that about 27% of the population doesn't recognize that.

      Get out of your echo chamber.

    25. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Answerr: A lot.

      What has he done right? If he actually follows through with tightening down on H-1B abuse/labor exploitation in some functional form or another, then this will be the first time I applaud Donald Trump (and I'm a big opponent). I'll *happily* add H-1B reform to his (currently) short list of accomplishments.

      As much as I despise the man's lack of character, I still want to see him succeed. It's in everyone's interest that he actually improves things through proper direction. I've seen no results so far. It's arguable that it's "too soon" but relying on ambiguity in temporal delays of outcomes is also a common con tactic.

    26. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      S yu define great as unatainably unbelieveably peefect in every way ,hich is impossible. You must be a liberal. You have to pay commis. Nothing comes easy or for free. It starts with WORK.

      Yes, it does. And you should start your work by learning the English language.

    27. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have a really low standard for "great" apparently. I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

      Let's go through each of these.

      The first one is particularly telling. It was Trump, more than anybody (except perhaps Bernie, certainly more than Hilary) who spoke out against getting America involved in foreign wars. So much so that he was at 'war' (no pun intended) with a good section of his own party - Bush/Graham/McCain - over the Iraq war, which got particularly ugly during the SC primaries. He wanted to get along with Russia, but the Democrats made that impossible by obsessing over 'Russian interference' in the elections. Nonetheless, 2 weeks ago, most of his seniormost officials, like Tillerson and Haley, stated that they'd acquiesce with Assad remaining in power. This was as close to peaceful conflict resolution that one can get, and should have calmed Damascus. Instead, Assad launched a chemical weapons attack on Ibdil, making it impossible for Trump not to respond. One could hardly imagine a stupider Syrian response to what was essentially a peace gesture.

      After that, the North Korean thing can't be peaceful, given that President Un has stated that they are heading towards thermonuclear war. They have, in violation of many treaties, tested both nukes as well as ballistic missiles. Given that they could easily drop a nuke on Seoul, this is not a can that can be kicked down the road.

      Technological advancement - I'm not sure how any government is supposed to do that. The US is more technologically advanced than anyone else, but there are a few things here and there, such as protection of intellectual property, that can be done, but is currently lower priority.

      Social advancement - these days, it seems to center around anybody being able to enter bathrooms of their choice based on what they feel like. While more conservative factions of the party have taken a stance against that, the president has been careful not to.

      Education - well, college tuition costs are at an all time high, but education has not been landing people jobs, given how out of touch with the real world it is. If anything, it's a ball & chain that keeps young people deep in debt. It's hard to achieve overall happiness when things like education and health care are as screwed as they are, courtesy the previous administration.

      As for the nation's citizenry, they are equal. Equality of opportunity, that is. What you are looking for, perhaps, is equality of outcome, which is unattainable, even in pure Communist countries. What equality has come to mean is a code-word for affirmative action - something that's failed despite being around for 50 years.

      Trump's goals - making the US an attractive place to hire people, and making it militarily more powerful and politically more assertive, so that enemies like North Korea or Iran or ISIS don't mess with us, while adversaries like Russia, China, EU stop taking advantage of us - are certainly adequate in MAGA. So as Gatsinko noted above, making the US the richest & most powerful ever is the best path to getting there

    28. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a moron. I don't even have time to explain that to you.

    29. Re: Make America Great by knightghost · · Score: 1

      No, American products and labor do not cost more. When you factor in longevity and quality, American products beat most the others.

      I can out produce outsourcers on a dollar per project basis. However, PHB look at headcount. The entire H1B is a scam.

    30. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which presidents' respective party had this level of control over Federal government all at once?

      Hint:
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png

    31. Re:Make America Great by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, massive, unconstitutional emoluments clause violations. This will be his downfall.

      The rest of the stuff is just because he's an ignorant moron.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    32. Re: Make America Great by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Technically it is the job of the consumer to buy the best product for the price, just as it is the job of a corporation to make the most money. The problem is that this amounts to a race to the bottom every time unless the government steps in and moderates the balance between the two. When governments are favoring business over citizens is it a big problem for overall quality of life.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    33. Re: Make America Great by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Just be prepared to measure Trump by the effect that he produces, not just based on 'doing something'. If he does "something" but it doesn't even end domestic workers being let go in favor of foreign then he may as well not have done anything at all.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    34. Re: Make America Great by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      So, this morning?

      P.S. Lose the mullet. They look awful with a bald patch.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    35. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find American made products to be inferior in quality.

    36. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So which items listed has Donald been following through on from the proposed job description you provided, other than providing for the common defense?

      The preamble is not even remotely a "job description" (even summarised or themed) that shows responsibilities for the US president, but I'll humor the idea for now. It falls on all facets of government and citizens. There are far more explicit statements for the president if you bother reading a bit further on. In addition, there is also historical precedent that sets additional expectations.

    37. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      S yu define great as unatainably unbelieveably peefect in every way ,hich is impossible. You must be a liberal. You have to pay commis. Nothing comes easy or for free. It starts with WORK.

      Actually it starts with education. One of the indications of education is the ability to form complete sentences with accurate spelling in order to actually communicate. And yes, getting an actual education starts with WORK.

      I'd advise you to try it before coming here to slap insults and toss people into arbitrarily (and incorrectly) defined boxes to jeer at.

    38. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll be honest; it's not worth my time to respond to all these points. I'll pick a few.

      The fact that tensions were already elevated with Russia and NK doesn't justify ratcheting them higher. There are real risks to doing it; the kind that get people killed. That's so what.

      He responded to chemical weapons use by striking an airfield. That airfield was up and running again the next day, and Assad used it to strike the same area he had previously gassed. I don't know what the proper response should be, but a single ineffectual airstrike probably isn't it.

      He called China a currency manipulator that needed to reign in NK. Then he met with Xi Jinping, who explained things to him for 10 minutes, and now he says China is not a currency manipulator and that the situation with NK is complicated. That's how. As for NATO, he said they were obsolete, but now are not obsolete. Like he has a clue.

      As for acting surprised, he literally said, "No one knew health care was so complicated." Except everyone knew heath care was so complicated; except Donald Trump, apparently. I already addressed the international relations bit.

      And finally, as I said he tweets at 3 AM like a schoolgirl. So what? Adolescent schoolgirl is not a good look for the President of the United States. That's so what.

      Don't think I'm a Democrat or Clinton supporter, because I am neither. But the fact that Donald Trump is not up to the job is a obvious as the sky is blue.

    39. Re:Make America Great by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      And those nations would be...?

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    40. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go fuck yourself

    41. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Shouldn't the consumer bear some responsibility for this? You and others choose which products are successful when you and others make purchase choices.

      You go to the store to buy $THING. You see two choices. One costs more. Is it built to last, so that the extra cost is worth it? You can't tell without buying both and waiting several years.

      You are making the assumption that people buying things have complete information about the products they buy. That assumption does make the math easy in econ 101, but it is not true in the real world.

    42. Re: Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I said AND a T-bird. I got rid of the T-Bird. Megadeth forever!

    43. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of his EOs have been unconstitutional. He's done nothing with Russia that Hillary wouldn't have done (she even gushed to the press about bombing airfields in Syria two hours before Trump bombed an airfield in Syria), and North Korea has been fucked for a long time. He really does tweet at 3 AM about Arnold though lol

    44. Re: Make America Great by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't the consumer bear some responsibility for this?

      According to corporate shills? I don't know; why don't you tell us.

      Just kidding; fuck off and die.

    45. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inflamed Tensions with North Korea

      I didn't know that we were not still at war with North Korea. Please tell me when the Peace Treaty was Signed and approved by Congress.

      Why can't you? Oh I guess you mistook an Armistance Agreement (Cease Fire) of 1953 != Peace Teaty. Because of this, we are still in a state of war with North Korea and Trump under that Declaration of War that Congress Passed can send the troops in or nuke them out of existence without any further approvals of congress.

        Captcha=permit

    46. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who told you about the emoluments? Was it the same media that told you Trump would lose? Did they also go into all the other presidents who had business interests their entire time in office, starting with literally George Washington?

    47. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think about it, isn't Trump what every American male aspires to be? Being an asshole is conflated with leadership and strength, so the ruder one is, the more people respect them. Also, it used to be that the dishonor of being a liar was with the person making the falsehoods, now it is with people who don't immediately call BS, because one also gains respect in the US by lying convincingly and having others believe it.

      So, it is no wonder why Trump is President. He is the moral leader of the US as it stands right now.

    48. Re: Make America Great by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Back when you had salaries based on a local job market with local cost of living, not a global job market with a local cost of living. If we want to bring cost of living down in line with other countries where these workers come from then I'm fine with the global economy. But the problem is, right now you are asking people in very specific industry markets to compete globally but they can't just step out to India and pay less than $10K US for a brand new car like you can there.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    49. Re:Make America Great by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It sounds more like he's trying to implement a medium-wage raise.

      Basically, you raise the wages of a subset of workers, resulting in a (slight, fractional) price increase, reduction in total buying power of products in that pipeline, and subsequent reduction in the number of jobs. The people receiving the pay raise receive a larger income at the expense of the people who lose their jobs, and all income is reduced in buying power by the marginal increase in cost of the products made by these recipients. The end result is that the recipients of a wage increase get more buying power (not quite so much as the direct proportion of their wage increase, but nearly); a few people become unemployed; and everyone else becomes slightly-poorer because their dollars don't go so far (it's like facing inflation, except only some people's income increases, and others are just faced with more-expensive good).

      Typically the subset is the lowest-wage worker group (minimum-wage raise). Raising wages attached to H1-B jobs is seen mainly as an IT/Technology sector raise, which would probably draw votes from IT workers who think it's great that the poor, the rich, and middle-class workers who weren't subject to H1-B pressure and thus aren't getting their pay increased now all have to funnel more of their income to the Tech crowd and be poorer themselves.

      Interesting technique. Bad for the economy, but easy enough to divert attention away, and a subset of voters will feel like they're a favored group and be inclined to support these policies.

    50. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight. It was bad to destroy the air strip of a dictator that uses chemical weapons... because reasons?

      Wow, you should sue whatever school system shit you out.

    51. Re:Make America Great by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

      Ah, yes, the values of a progressive elite imposed on the citizenry by force if necessary; the political program of the likes of FDR, Mussolini, Bismarck, cheered on by intellectuals and the middle class. But the ambiguous and questionable nature of some of these goals and the injustice of imposing them on the people by force isn't even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that a century of progressivism shows us that progressive governments are utterly incapable of delivering on these promises and often make things worse. You can't make people happy or educated through government force; you can't resolve conflicts (peacefully or otherwise) between people around the world that have been going on for centuries; you can't force people to like each other or to create technological advancements. What government can achieve is equality of a nation's citizenry, though that only by making everybody equally dirt poor.

    52. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one running was "up to the job"
      So I blame Democrats and Republicans for nominating shitty candidates.

      But that is in the past, and unlike the crybabies of the left, I don't live in the past.

    53. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Daddy didn't lie to me at all: Hillary was indeed a nasty woman, not to mention dishonest, corrupt, and incompetent.

      Hence, Daddy was a slightly less bad choice for president.

    54. Re:Make America Great by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Ahh, the dumb shits who say 'whatabout'.

      Maybe try reading the constitution. It's not just 'business interests'.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    55. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... 1996.
      Ha Ha Ha!

    56. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't recall nominating you to speak on behalf of all males.

      That sounds really sexists, but I guess that's OK to do now since the Bill on being a huge hypocritical asshole only on the left was approved.

    57. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The better question is what he's done right.

      For starters, he has rolled back regulations and appointed a moderate conservative supreme court justice.

      More importantly, he has not done all the crap that Hillary was promising to do. Most people voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary.

      So far he has signed an unconstitutional executive order

      Really? Where did SCOTUS determine that?

      inflamed tensions with Russia and North Korea,

      Unlike... Hillary?

      sent his press secretary out to blatantly and obviously lie to the press,

      And that's different from previous presidents... how? And Americans should care... why?

      vacillated on his positions regarding Syria, China, and NATO,

      And that's different from previous presidents... how?

      accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence,

      I think there is plenty of proof and evidence that the Obama administration misused its spying apparatus on political opponents. Whether that was criminal is another question.

      and acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated. He tweets at 3 AM about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance at his old job, like some teenage girl jealous that Brian likes Becky now.

      And Hillary smells of elderberries. Who the f*ck cares.

    58. Re:Make America Great by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 4, Informative

      The better question is what he's done right.

      When you find yourself in a hole - stop digging. Dropping the TPP was a great way to stop digging. Working on making H1Bs be less of a scam is also a good move. I'm not saying that Trump is perfect but I do think that he's doing stuff that might help the middle class that neither Hillary nor any of the other Republicans would have done. Only Bernie would have done better.

    59. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of all the presidents, Trump is the one that has the least financial interest in getting into foreign wars, just because wars are bad for business, and tourist areas tend to get desolate quickly if there is fighting anywhere near them. Obama did a great job at kicking the can, especially with Daesh (which was created by the power vacuum left behind by an Iraqi pullout without any leadership in its stead), DPRK, and Syria (which Obama did a lot of saber rattling, but lost face when Russia stepped in and "handled" the issue.) Trump also was left with an uncertain economy. Yes, we hear about Wall Street gaining, but lets be real... most of the US has not improved that much since 2008. We might hear about tech jobs, but everything else is a shambles, other than anything corrections or DoD contract related.

    60. Re: Make America Great by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >The entire H1B is a scam.

      Says someone who has never been through it.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    61. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exaclty, and that from a handle of 'PoopJuggler' ... I think it's just Barack; he's discovered Slashdot!

    62. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Overall happiness?

      Ha. Impossible. We could have free birth control and free sex toys and free robot prostitutes and free drugs and people would be as depressed and unhappy as ever.

      I am willing to volunteer for this experiment.

    63. Re: Make America Great by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      People want cheaper and cheaper products so wages will go down or stagnate to allow that. More and more people work in IT therefore its not as exclusive as it was so its got to the point where the value of the average IT person is now getting lower. The local workforce will always price themselves out of the market as it becomes common place.

      Thats the way its always been in virtually every industry, cream when its new and invigorating but dilute milk when its overcrowded.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    64. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      10 Fire American
      20 Hire Indian

    65. Re:Make America Great by Rhipf · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually there was never a formal declaration of war with Korea so it would be hard for Trump to use this non-existent declaration to justify going into North Korea. The Korean war was a UN action that Truman sent US troops to support.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/po...

    66. Re: Make America Great by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      If the mantra is that a market economy rules the world then you have to compete in the employment Market too.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    67. Re:Make America Great by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      As he's spent more time playing golf, maybe his handicap is getting better

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    68. Re:Make America Great by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      The better question is what he's done right. So far he has signed an unconstitutional executive order,

      The same is true for Obama when he was POTUS.

      inflamed tensions with Russia and North Korea,

      Obama didn't do any better.

      sent his press secretary out to blatantly and obviously lie to the press,

      True for Obama.

      vacillated on his positions regarding (insert country here)

      True for Obama.

      accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence

      Obama blamed the previous administration too.

      and acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated.

      And also true for Obama when he was POTUS.

      So are we done singling out Trump?

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    69. Re: Make America Great by habig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The entire H1B is a scam.

      Techie tunnel vision: H1B's are used for many other purposes than getting cheap IT help from India. My interaction with the program has been "just hired a new theoretical physics professor, who happens to not hold US citizenship". How to get him permission to work at a US university? Get an H1B.

      In that case, it was pretty easy to prove there wasn't a US national who could fill the job better than the foreigner: we had just done an exhaustive search to find the best applicant.. Sounds like it was working as designed: don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    70. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only the feminist, and by proxy everyone else they blame for their imagined slights.

    71. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing astounding about it. It is easy to forget how stupid most people really are.

      That's the weakness of voting. The lowest common denominator wins.

    72. Re: Make America Great by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I'm fine with that. I have no problem finding jobs at half of what I make.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    73. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is making America grate again!

    74. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure, leaving it to China to control trade in the Pacific... that is what dropping the TPP managed to do for us, just wait until we are nothing more than a large granary for China, and THEN you can blame Obama for not making TPP unimpeachable... right?

      As far as the H1B fiasco goes... just wait until every job you ever have comes with a glass ceiling occupied by migrants who think of you as some quaint throwback and work endlessly to outsource back to their home nation.

      Despite the fact that Hillary suffered from a tireless propaganda machine against her, hostile foreign agents miring the election and millions of newbies to politics getting hoodwinks by gopers pretending to be angry Bernie-bros... she still would have done more for the middle class than draining it of its blood and hanging it on a wall as a trophy like trump has.

    75. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am in one of the areas most affected - Silicon Valley. I am seeing the change since 3 months ago. Slowly, citizens are changing from being the minority. 80% visas (300,000) per year are issued to India. plus extensions year over year. There are millions.

      I've been literally the only white person on the program teamscor even in departments for over a decade now. Cisco, Sandisk, visa, gilead, brocade... I am not exaggerating. Floors and floors of just Indians.

      While I can't blame them for wanting to leave thier shitty country for work. Its not an easy thing to do. It is absolutely displacing Americans. And there are 100-120k per year jobs on average.

      This is all verifiable.

      Just think if Americans can actually afford to buy a home or just live ok again and not be discriminated against. The bad is they do only hire Indians once an Indian manager is in place 'high valued positions' and its called inside sales instead of not hiring Americans.

      There are some changes. More whiteys and asians and English speaking people are slowly being hired.

      But its a long way off. We need to dismantle this program. Make investigations mandatory. How many on unemployment websites are even contacted for these positions? None. They are scamming us. Its what they do.

    76. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steve Jobs told Apple employees a decade or two ago that it was not necessary for MicroSoft to lose for Apple to win, and look at the state of those two companies now.

      Empires fall, and the USA is an empire. We could learn from the past and choose to not do the things that caused other empires to fail. We could choose to help other countries and give up our empire status gracefully.

      Or we can go all MAGA and fight the inevitable, the USA becomes second to China, and we will have missed our chance to set an example.

    77. Re: Make America Great by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      My wife went to university here in the US and got an H1B after she graduated to be an interpreter.

      I agree the loop holes need to be closed but let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's not beneficial. Without the H1B, you might see less investment from Asian countries simply because there are very few Americans fluent in spoken AND written Asian languages that want to work as an interpreter.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    78. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Obama was definitely more pro-science than Trump. Same about overall happiness, education, social advancement. Not sure about peaceful conflict resolution, but Obama didn't really drop Tomahawk's on Assad (which i guess, he should have done), and he was kinda more peaceful with North Korea, which was useless. So, lets say Obama was average, Trump is almost the worst possible?

    79. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good rhetoric, but all that rhetoric does is divert attention from the fundamental issue with H1-Bs: an artificial wage floor of $60,000/year imposed by the government almost certainly results in less efficient allocation of capital in the overall economy, meaning that the total wealth of the US is less than it would be than if H1-Bs were allocated by highest bidder (possibly further adjusted by region.)

      It's even possible that the increased total wealth offsets the slight negatives to the other sectors of the workforce as you outline above.

      And before you start with "but then allow labor to move as freely as capital across borders to increase the total wealth worldwide" spiel, I'm of the opinion that we pay our elected representatives to prioritize stopping or minimizing that global economic shocks and maintaining peaceful conditions within our borders above what happens outside of our borders since they are, you know, *our* representatives.

    80. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it has been shown that compulsory education works quite well(especially with children, who benefit greatly from the discipline, that conflicts can be resolved (and it's odd that you ignore how force works for that one, even Tacitus knew it), and technological advancement as well (just check out the effects of government technological research, it's vast).

      Sorry, but like it or not, progressives have achieved the goals you don't want to admit they're pursuing, in fact, they've been forcing conservatives further and further back, to the point where you desperately cling to an ideological nincompoop just because he's conveniently mouthing a few phrases you want to hear.

      It's ok though, we know you would much rather condemn and destroy all the progressives in the world, because you hate and despise them, all they hold dear is what makes you feel wrong, guilty, and flawed inside, and you're too weak to embrace that ideal as strength. But we forgive you, even as we treat you like the tantrum throwing toddler you are.

    81. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is the exception. My experiences with H-1Bs are management coming in, telling me to train the 2-3 new people before I get the axe (with a severence depending on if I do train them), finding out they are getting paid $18-20k each and fresh off the boat.

      H-1Bs were intended for top tier people, but the system has been so abused, solely to reduce IT salaries, and create indentured servants, as if the H-1B gets fired, they get deported.

    82. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am guessing UC Berkely, or any of it's affiliates.

    83. Re: Make America Great by magarity · · Score: 1

      I find American made products to be inferior in quality.

      You've apparently never bought decent furniture.

    84. Re: Make America Great by CaptnCrud · · Score: 3, Funny

      "That is good." - Nameless mongol leader.

    85. Re: Make America Great by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      The bad is they do only hire Indians once an Indian manager is in place

      This happens a lot in shit jobs too actually. Or at least as much as they can without getting into trouble. As soon as an immigrant makes the jump to manager they pretty much only seem to hire people from their own country. In the case of shit jobs it really doesn't matter. Pretty much anyone can do those jobs. So since it doesn't matter I guess they want to help their countrymen to do what they did and succeed in their new home. It would be nice if they would occasionally hire an American though as a kind of affirmative action balancing thing. I guess it's one of the downsides of being an immigrant country. Hey at least you may be able to find good Indian food there. Where I live there is not a single good Indian restaurant in the whole country. Being an immigrant country has its rewards too.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    86. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using political discourse to belittle others is a sure way to alienate others and convince them your ideology is wrong. The only thing it positively accomplishes is making you look like an elitist.

    87. Re: Make America Great by hawguy · · Score: 1

      When it was a lot easier to get jobs, without worrying about them being eliminated and sent overseas. When products were of quality make and made in America

      Those days are not coming back. Overhauling the H1-B program won't do anything to reduce the jobs being sent overseas because overseas workers are not H1-B's, they are natives in their own country and will work for much less money than American workers. Bringing H1-B's on-site for on-the-job training eases the process, but they are not neccessary. If your job is so easy to do that someone from another country can come and learn it in a few weeks, then it's a prime candidate for outsourcing entirely to another country.

      Likewise, few people will pay for "American Quality" products -- even Trump uses Chinese factories to make his "Make America Great" trinkets. The only manufacturing that will stay in America will be heavily automated.

      By dumping environmental regulations and reducing worker protections, Trump is trying to turn the USA into another China-like manufacturing powerhouse, but it's too little too late for that, and does anyone really want the air quality of China where you can actually see the air between your face and your hand (not to mention widespread pollution in the water and even the soil)? By the time we could catch up to China's manufacturing base, they will have already far surpassed us in automation so we still won't be able to compete.

      I'd like to think that the USA still has the edge on educated workers, but with republican cuts in education (from pre-k and primary all the way through secondary education), fewer and fewer of the best and brightest minds will be coming from the USA - in the future our smartest citizens will be another country's H1-B problem.

    88. Re: Make America Great by molarmass192 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm pretty sure that's what the O-1A visas are designed for:

      DHS info on O1-A

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    89. Re: Make America Great by hawguy · · Score: 1

      http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/1...

      The suit cost $23 to make in Brooklyn. Making it in China and shipping it to Paraggio's office cost a mere $10

      Manufacturing in America "makes me look like a bad business person," Paraggio told CNNMoney. She went with the Brooklyn option anyway. Surely, she thought, customers would prefer to see the "Made in the USA" label

      "No one cares about Made in the USA," says Paraggio, who recently ordered some suits from China for the first time after Daymond John of Shark Tank gave her frank advice to get real about the bottom line. So she placed the order. And cried

      In survey after survey, Americans say they prefer to buy "Made in the USA" products. But when it comes to actually spending, their choices tell a different story.
      "Consumers are all for Made in America until they have to pay for it," says Greg Portell, partner at consulting firm A.T. Kearney who specializing in advising retailers.

    90. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why the H-2B visa program (which Trump uses to staff his properties almost entirely with immigrant workers) is going to be receiving the same kind of scrutiny, right? ... right?

    91. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I realize it makes you feel a touch better to insult and bully people you disagree with, but that usually stops being an effective strategy sometime after potty training.

    92. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL @ T Bird.

      Reminds me of Dazed and Confused. Those were the great years. Simple times. When a pregnant woman could goto the store and buy a sixer and a pack of cigs for $3.

    93. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trying to build that retard wall for one

    94. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It could be a good move. How it's implemented will remain to be seen.

      Don't forget, he's a businessman first and foremost. Watch him brute force the oil pipeline and coal through, even though most don't want it except for a few that stand to make billions. Companies often hide behind "oh, we're hiring more americans" -- according to a lot of right wing posts about Starbucks (and others): even though they higher a huge amount of vets, they're anti-vet because they also hire a immigrants)

      What would give him the most profit while looking like he's hiring more americans?

      I expect this will simply encourage people / companies to start overexaggerating and overpaying (to just claw back money by large "licensing" or "uniform" expenses, much like how Hollywood gets out of paying actors stupid enough to sign a "paid by percentage of profits" contract. Movies making multibillion dollars have made nothing on the books. LOL

    95. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      30 GOTO 10

      Profit?

    96. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All this posturing with "we'll blow you out of the water". It's actually terrible.

      If an animal with superior brute strength is fighting you, you have to do what you must to survive. This includes terroristic acts (like kicking it in the nuts, gouging it's eyes). There's no such thing as honour when you're fighting for your way of life -- Americans themselves have shown that.

      Arguably, 9/11 was the middle east saying "stop fucking with us and let us handle our own business" instead of the CIA installing Bin Laden.

      The big difference between the middle east terrorists and NK? NK is a government with government resources and a nuclear arsenal. The US having the largest undefended border? I expect a nuke to be deployed in the middle of a large urban environment. It's actually quite easy, if you think about it. Suitcase nukes are tiny. Actual nukes (without a missile) aren't that big either (a size of an office desk ish)

    97. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My H1-B coworkers will confirm that the process is terrible and does take avantage of the ones that want to come here and work in search of the "American Dream".

    98. Re: Make America Great by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only a few people are saying "scrap the H1B" program. My current programming lead is from Europe, and I'd guess he's here on H1B or something similar, but most of our people are from the US. We're glad to have him, but I don't feel he's necessarily displacing any qualified workers. We've had positions opened for many months, and it's extremely difficult to find qualified people to fill those positions. There are plenty of tech workers in the US, but often you need people with very specific qualifications (no, real ones, not made up shit).

      But there's also no doubt that the program needs cleaning up to prevent some of the rampant abuse that's gone on. It's CLEARLY being abused by many corporations looking to save money by "outsourcing" without the downsides of the workers residing in another country.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    99. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, where do you get that idea from? Most made-in-american products are just as good as other quality products.

      The people overseas do not have such a high standard of living, saving companies millions or billions. Yes, there CAN be cheap products with shoddy crap, but even now China/India makes high-end gear for companies on the cheap.

    100. Re:Make America Great by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What exactly has he done wrong so far?

      The better question is what he's done right. So far he has signed an unconstitutional executive order,

      If it's unconstitutional then so was Obama's, yet nobody seemed to get their panties in a wad when he stopped Iraqis from coming into the country for a period of time based on a law passed by Congress. The judge used Trump's campaign language as a basis for deciding that now the order is illegal - I'm frankly more concerned about the judge.

      inflamed tensions with Russia

      Wait, I thought he was a Russian stooge. So difficult to keep up with this stuff.

      and North Korea,

      Oh, bull fucking shit. Kim Jong Un is pissing off the world, including China. His biggest export is coal and China just cut him off to buy from America. Are they also "inflaming tensions", or is the asshole Kim doing it himself? We both know the answer. It's good to have a US President that is willing to stand up to Kim. The guy is soon going to be able to put nukes on missiles - it's time to take him seriously.

      sent his press secretary out to blatantly and obviously lie to the press

      It took this long to get to something substantive.

      vacillated on his positions regarding Syria, China, and NATO, accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence, and acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated. He tweets at 3 AM about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance at his old job, like some teenage girl jealous that Brian likes Becky now.

      The man is a boor and a buffoon, and an embarrassment to our country. I'm still slightly astounded that about 27% of the population doesn't recognize that.

      He has a 50% approval rating. Sorry to let you know that.

      And, frankly, he's no more of an embarrassment than Obama was. As a lefty, you probably didn't see that. Let me give you a clue - it got so bad that the President of the Philippines - long considered a vassal state to the US - openly mocked Obama last year. He was seen as a weak fool in Asia, which is why China wouldn't even give him the red carpet (don't bother with some stupid shit from media matters explaining that they actually did).

      I'm not a Trump fan but I recognize why he won (clue: Hillary) and I have no delusions that we would have been better off in *any* way with Hillary in the White House.

    101. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a really low standard for "great" apparently. I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

      So the country you are talking about is Atlantis.

    102. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... explain to me how foreign exploited labor costs (includiny those tacking discount wages seeking citizenship), where labor attributes a large portion of many product expenses, result in an overall cheaper product than one using labor forces that expect high salaries, vacation, sick leave, fringe benefits, etc.

      I don't want to hear about the long term costs/expenses associated with a more reliable product that ultimately lasts longer. The average US consumer doesn't understand that concept and will typically pick the cheapest options under the presumption the product is a substitute. Wal-Mart has based their entire business off that model and it's working.

    103. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So are we done singling out Trump?

      Trump's the man in the Oval Office, you can't win by crying "But Obama..." especially when actually, half the time, Obama didn't even...

      Same excuse you trotted out when Bush was responsible for something. Well, fine, now the shoe's on the other foot.

    104. Re: Make America Great by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

      Sounds like it was working as designed.

      But at the same time you got lucky, with the allocation determined by lottery. Would you be saying that it worked as designed if you weren't as lucky in the allocation?

      Wouldn't you feel better about not the theoretical physicist not having to compete with the Infosys Hep Desk guys?

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    105. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      racist dog whistle..

    106. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I call it MASA -- Make America S*** Again

    107. Re: Make America Great by sabri · · Score: 2

      Says someone who has never been through it.

      When you've been through H1-B, you can not form an unbiased opinion on the program itself. You can testify to the difficulty and unfair practices by employers.

      H1-B by itself is a good program. What's missing is the enforcement of its prerequisites. LCA is way to easy to get, and reported abuse is not investigated (think Disney).

      The scam only becomes apparent when viewed with a larger perspective. Let's be honest: most temp workers have immigration intents. Balu from Mumbai who gets an H1-B only wants his employer to sponsor a greencard. And luckily most employers are willing to do so. However, The combination of the H1-B influx and current greencard caps means that Balu now needs to wait up to 10 years for his greencard. That's 10 years without getting a new job easily. That's 10 years without having the same protections and wages. That's 10 years without knowing for sure whether or not he can stay in the country he loves.

      That's the scam, and the human cost that nobody realizes when discussing H1-B.

      25MAR05 is the current EB-3 priority date for India.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    108. Re: Make America Great by r1348 · · Score: 1

      "Right now H-1B visas are awarded by random lottery and many of you will be surprised to know that about 80% of H-1B workers are paid less than the median wage in their fields. Only 5% to 6%, depending on the year, of H-1B workers command the highest wage tier recognized by the Department of Labor. [...] If you change that current system that awards visas randomly, without regard for skill or wage, to a skills-based awarding, it makes it extremely difficult to use the visa to replace or undercut American workers [...] It's a very elegant way of solving very systemic problems in the H-1B guest worker visa."

      Seriously, it's right there in the summary.

    109. Re: Make America Great by r1348 · · Score: 1

      It's difficult to buy American when your wage is undercut by H1Bs.

    110. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reality hurts, doesn't it? People don't like taking any personal responsibility that might tarnish their egos.

      I'm not saying responsibility lies entirely with the consumer, but you can be responsible as a consumer and only support businesses that have practices that align with your beliefs. People get so pissed and defensive when they hear this because they don't like it.

      I purchase from local labor and it costs more. Buying groceries (meats, produce, eggs) at my local farmers market is far more expensive than grabbing produce at Walmart, I assure you. Occasionally, I buy cheap products that I know are cheap because they used exploited labor to produce. The difference is, I don't try to deny the situation and delude myself.

      Consumers could single handedly change the market if they refuse to buy a certain product. That product will inevitably cease to exist and something that fits the consumer requirements will fill the void. Exceptions arise when certain products are absolutely necessary and no reasonable substitute exists (e.g., rare disease medications).

    111. Re:Make America Great by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1

      >> overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry

      Um, these two concepts will never co-exist. You're advocating for a non-meritocratic society, where there is no incentive to succeed. If there is no incentive to succeed, there will be no advancements in peace, technology, or any of the other stuff you named. Reality doesn't mesh well with your Marxist ideas.

    112. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I come from, "Made in American" is the cheap crappy stuff. That's why most of your high-status consumer items are imports.

    113. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The better question is what he's done right.

      Working on making H1Bs be less of a scam is also a good move.

      LOL. Health insurance for everyone with lower deductibles was also a good move. Then Trump figured out a way to do neither while make the current system even worse.

      I think GP's point is that Trump is fucking useless and there is zero reason to hope that he will improve your life. Even if he accidentally "fixes" H1Bs you better bank on your overall life getting worse.

    114. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      making it militarily more powerful ... so that enemies like North Korea or Iran or ISIS don't mess with us

      The US is already incredibly more powerful. Since Trump's obviously clueless on how much more so it needs to get, or why (outside of dollar amounts) it's clear he's propagandizing in political knee-jerk fashion to his constituency. In fact it can be argued that by continuing to increase its power the US prods hostile countries to become even more defensive and willing to resort to some type of mutual assured destruction such as a nuclear North Korea or Iran (MAD seems to work) or an even more suicidal ISIS.

      politically more assertive

      Not sure what you mean here. It'd help to provide some historical examples of where any country "politically" asserting itself more that the US currently does has been successful.

    115. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's unconstitutional then so was Obama's, yet nobody seemed to get their panties in a wad when he stopped Iraqis from coming into the country for a period of time based on a law passed by Congress.

      Nope! Obama stopped processing them, but people with valid visas were still allowed in, Trump turned people away who had had valid visas, filled out all the paperwork, and were on the fucking planes. Then they rushed them home, sometimes without even informing people of their rights. That's the big difference. And why Trump's order failed. Badly.

      It didn't even get support from the Pentagon, whose efforts it had messed up, let alone do anything effective.

      The judge used Trump's campaign language as a basis for deciding that now the order is illegal - I'm frankly more concerned about the judge.

      Why? Because a judge can recognize intent when it's proclaimed in banners across the sky?

      Frankly, I'm more concerned about Trump's inability to recognize ACTUAL judges.

    116. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now go buy anything

    117. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because none of those terms are open to interpretation.

    118. Re: Make America Great by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      "Right now H-1B visas are awarded by random lottery and many of you will be surprised to know that about 80% of H-1B workers are paid less than the median wage in their fields. Only 5% to 6%, depending on the year, of H-1B workers command the highest wage tier recognized by the Department of Labor. [...] If you change that current system that awards visas randomly, without regard for skill or wage, to a skills-based awarding, it makes it extremely difficult to use the visa to replace or undercut American workers [...] It's a very elegant way of solving very systemic problems in the H-1B guest worker visa."

      Seriously, it's right there in the summary.

      It is still NOT a total scam. Because the program is being abused so bad, the program itself is NOT a scam, but it is the way some big companies are using it. Of course, the program needs better processing and qualification reform.

      By the way, there is a prevailing wage set to every single position in H1B, and the wage is supposed to be around the mean and/or median. How could 80% being paid lower than the median? How could they let it happen? Of course, loop holes.

    119. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kennedy, eisenhower, obama... like pretty much all the competent ones who took their jobs seriously.

      Trump ran on a platform of abandoning our allies and settling the national debt.... or... the end of the world as we know it.

      So anyone who supports him is a moron.

    120. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what???? I thought Brian likes Sally.

    121. Re: Make America Great by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Informative

      The air strip was not destroyed.

      It was operational in 24 hours.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    122. Re: Make America Great by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Corporations set the price of their products, not the other way around. Also, they could charge lower prices for their products if they weren't guaranteeing higher returns to shareholders year over year. At some point the whole public trading system is not sustainable.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    123. Re:Make America Great by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

      The last declaration of war was WWII.

      Also, the United States has no "list of enemies."

      That's why Snowden was charged with espionage and not treason.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    124. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama dropped more bombs than any previous president. 26,171 in 2016 alone. How peaceful*.

      * using the Islamic definition of peace

    125. Re:Make America Great by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      LOL. Health insurance for everyone with lower deductibles was also a good move. Then Trump figured out a way to do neither while make the current system even worse.

      If a politician were to actually try and improve US Healthcare then they would align our drug pricing with Canadas. However since they in fact just want to keep the game going as long as possible they instead major in the minors. This applies to both D and R.

      Even if he accidentally "fixes" H1Bs you better bank on your overall life getting worse.

      I always bank on life getting worse when a politician is involved, but then again I live in California.

    126. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can out source to China, India, etc.. But if you do you better be damn sure you are the lowest price. I'm willing to pay higher prices for that little made in America sticker but if my only options are outsourced stuff I'll be looking at the bottom line. That means if some one sells "counterfeit" duplicates or stole your IP, if they are offering a cheaper price I'll go with them. I'm sorry but us consumers have to look at bottom line to. No skin off of our backs if YOUR idea is stollen.

    127. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that is in the past, and unlike the crybabies of the left, I don't live in the past.

      Sure you don't. You just want to make America great again. Nope, no living in the past there...

    128. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He has a 50% approval rating. Sorry to let you know that.

      Nope.

      Of course, we're looking for people who can recognize that he's a boor, a buffoon, and an embarrassment to the country, which doesn't preclude approval, so that's not exactly meaningful.

      It is telling that he is lying, the same as he lied about a landslide.

      Let me give you a clue - it got so bad that the President of the Philippines - long considered a vassal state to the US - openly mocked Obama last year.

      Oh my, you mean that reprobate thug? Exactly why would we want his approval? That's baffling. Then again, you seem to want the Phillipines to be a subject of the US for some reason.

      I'm not a Trump fan but I recognize why he won (clue: Hillary) and I have no delusions that we would have been better off in *any* way with Hillary in the White House.

      Trump won because running, as a Republican, he could have been a brain-eating space alien, and have a chance to win. Sheer chance let him through, and we'd have been better off without the learning experience of Trump in office.

    129. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inflamed Tensions with North Korea

      I didn't know that we were not still at war with North Korea. Please tell me when the Peace Treaty was Signed and approved by Congress.

      Why can't you? Oh I guess you mistook an Armistance Agreement (Cease Fire) of 1953 != Peace Teaty. Because of this, we are still in a state of war with North Korea and Trump under that Declaration of War that Congress Passed can send the troops in or nuke them out of existence without any further approvals of congress.

      Captcha=permit

      Who said anything about any of that? People with any sense know not to poke a hornet's nest, dumbass.

    130. Re:Make America Great by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      War was never declared. The Korean War was not authorized by Congress. President Truman committed American troops in Korea in 1950 under the United Nations Participation Act of 1945

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    131. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The better question is what he's done right.

      youre not interested in answering that, huh.

    132. Re:Make America Great by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Only Bernie would have done better.

      This is the nation's tragedy and the Democrats' shame.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    133. Re: Make America Great by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

      "People want cheaper and cheaper products so wages will go down or stagnate to allow that. "

      Perhaps you have it backwards.

      Cheap products are popular due to stagnant wages and / or a suppressed economy.

      Given the choice, and the ability to afford it, most would choose the more expensive / reliable product vs the cheap one they have to settle for.

    134. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said anything about reliability? It's about the business practices. When you're shopping, you can typically look at the product and see exactly where it was made/manufacturered. You can purchase products that support local economies and not something made in China.

    135. Re: Make America Great by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >How could they let it happen? Of course, loop holes.

      Don't forget enforcement failures. You don't need loopholes when even blatant violations incur no consequences.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    136. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But we forgive you,

      Who's this "we?"

      I, for one, will not be forgiving Republicans any time soon for what they're about to do. In fact, I used to view myself as outside of the R vs. D thing since I usually just vote Libertarian, but Republicans have become so beyond repugnant that they must be stopped.

      Free markets! Free markets! FREE MARKETS FOR DEATH AND HUMAN SUFFERING. Women's reproductive systems and cannabis need not participate in the Republican "free market."

      Captcha: capitals

      (Is there an AI reading these posts that picks the captchas???)

    137. Re: Make America Great by habig · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that's what the O-1A visas are designed for:

      That does like a better fit. And I know we didn't have to deal with a lottery, or the widely-publicized "time for the lottery now!" deadline (which, by the way, is not compatible with an academic hiring schedule).

      So I just went back in my email and poked around: the name being bandied about with the University HR folks was definitely H1-B. Maybe they helpfully translated that into an O-1A, thinking "stupid head in the clouds faculty, can't even get an alphabet soup form name right".

    138. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he is a great scientist, he qualifies for an O series visa. If not, he is an over qualified TA grad student. Neither justifies an H1b

    139. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't use facts and data to shoot holes in their narrative. It makes them cry in their lattes. They just want to put on their rose-colored glasses and eat some 'memberberries.

    140. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you are on the right track. American society seems to have depreciated social incentives for honesty. When one is offered not only no reward but even derision or worse for honesty, the alternative choice becomes the path of least resistance.

      However, I would say the source of this theoretical crumbling of ideal morality is the increasing trend of pursuing short term gains over the long term due to fears of instability. I'm not speaking in pure economic terms either, but of an entire spectrum of social functions.

    141. Re:Make America Great by radarskiy · · Score: 2

      "Who told you about the emoluments?"

      The conservatives that freaked out about the cash award that came with Barak Obama's Nobel Prize. It was determined that Obama could accept the medal itself but had to give away the money.

    142. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He has a 50% approval rating.

      Cherrypicking is the hallmark of intellectual dishonesty. That was a single poll. The average is 42.6%.

    143. Re: Make America Great by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      My wife went to university here in the US and got an H1B after she graduated to be an interpreter. I agree the loop holes need to be closed but let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's not beneficial.

      So true. There's a shortage of high quality asian wives.

    144. Re: Make America Great by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 0

      You are making the assumption that people buying things have complete information about the products they buy. That assumption does make the math easy in econ 101, but it is not true in the real world.

      That's because econ 101 courses are taught by Keynsian, rather than Hayekian / "Austrian School", or Friedmanite / "Chicago School" principles.

      (That's largely thanks to financial meddling in the economics journal and university department "marketplace of ideas" by the Federal Reserve Banks, in the form of selective grants of large amounts of (freshly "printed") money.)

      Both the Austrian and Chicago schools analyze market decisions with respect to the marginal cost of collecting information for making better decisions vs. the marginal benefit of the improvement of the decisions.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    145. Re:Make America Great by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Are you really so attached to the government teat that you think the only way America could have been or be great is due to government action?

    146. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trick is to buy the products without typos in their labeling.

    147. Re:Make America Great by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Why do you think that equality means equality of outcome? Rather than say equality of opportunity - which is certainly compatible with a meritocratic society, it could be argued it is essential to one.

    148. Re:Make America Great by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      That's why Snowden was charged with espionage and not treason.

      Also why Jane Fonda got to marry Ted Turner, rather than hang by the neck.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    149. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wasn't rude, I pissed on your shoes as a territorial marking bitch.

    150. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the original vision, it is not the reality. If you have a specialized need you probably won't get your H1B because Cognizant and Wipro, etc have locked up as many as possible. I know people who lost qualified people trying to get them H1B visas because cognizant needs to hire Oracle DBA's for 50k per year. Given anyone legal resident status who can obtain a job making 165k per year, lets simplify this mess. At that salary level Americans can compete and the body shops are effectively out of business.

    151. Re: Make America Great by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      $0.50 - $1.34, nimwit.

    152. Re:Make America Great by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      because equality has come to code for equality of outcome. equality of opportunity is something we pretty much already have.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      economic mobility is a pretty good indicator for that. and the US is pretty good at that.

      modern day, chobani, in the past, carnegie.

      and before all else, more important than each of those is equality before the law.

    153. Re: Make America Great by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Yet the people who complain are often clueless of the process. What are people's opinions on L1B for instance? Does that look better to worse to them? Or were they unaware? What about green cards? Are people aware that H1Bs, L1Bs and all the others were put in place because the green card process became too slow and bureaucratic? Why not fix the green card system so we can do away with the secondary worker visas?

      My impression is that if the rules were followed concerning who meets the skills criteria and lotteries were done away with, then the perceived problems of visa abuse by companies would not exist. If they dropped all those visas and fixed the green card process then the perceived problems of worker-on-visa abuse would not exist.

      The law gave the government 90 days to provide me with a green card. They took five years.

      The tech industry in the US is the main tech industry in the world precisely because there is inertia and techies from around the world can move to where the industry is thus maintaining the Us as the center of tech. The effect of stopping them coming is not to improve wages here through worker shortage. It will be to cause the center of gravity of the tech industry to move to wherever techies around the world are able to move to.

       

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    154. Re:Make America Great by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

      I'm sure, the US would survive one out of forty-something presidents not working towards that kind of greatness. I can't put my finger on when it started, but the downward spiral is turning since a while.

      --
      bickerdyke
    155. Re:Make America Great by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      "He fired missiles for personal gain..." Are you kidding?! That has to be the dumbest possible point you could make.

      Do you want to discuss about the chocolate cake instead?

      --
      bickerdyke
    156. Re: Make America Great by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      I haven't heard anything about Trump increasing SOx, NOx, lead or mercury.

    157. Re:Make America Great by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      .... He has charted an ideological course on many issues (such as healthcare)


      Trump, ideological ?!? You've got to be s------ me.

    158. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Several of the models of Austrian economics are part of the mainstream of economic theory, used by Keynesians and much studied at universities in terms of probing the psychological basis of decision making. Hayek represents only a particular strand of Austrian economics that is opposed to some elements of Keynesian thought (the latter often mischaracterized as only as an imperative to spend)

    159. Re:Make America Great by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      bernie is a socialist. i don't like socialism. i think socialism killed more people than world war 2.

    160. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, from the great mahogany forests of north Dakota...

    161. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Supporting trump is equivalent of supporting Bernie madoff....

      Slashdot lost their values long ago...

    162. Re:Make America Great by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      No.

      Please read Section III Article 3:

      Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

      The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

      Jane Fonda did not declare ware on the United States.

      The last time that happened was by the Confederacy.

      She did not aid any enemy because America has no list of enemies.

      The last list was WWII.

      Jane Fonda was never charged with anything.

      Love her or hate her, she exercised her right to freedom of expression and contributed greatly to the end of the Vietnam war.

      Kind of, you know, Westboro Church.

      Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is a Baptist church which is known for its hate speech, especially against LGBT people (homophobia), Catholics (anti-Catholicism), Orthodox Christians (anti-Orthodoxy), Muslims (Islamophobia), Jews (antisemitism), American soldiers and politicians.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    163. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's shitty! Try the wonderful world of 1965!

    164. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand "a bid to court working class voters" from the summary. How many of these H1B jobs is Joe Sixpack qualified for?

    165. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re:war, Russia
      I'm not entirely convinced that the current relations with Russia are really what they appear to be.
      Didn't we just see Eric Prince trying to make an unofficial communication channel to Putin?
      https://www.washingtonpost.com...
      As for sending cruise missles into Syria, it seemed like a really good opportunity for posturing: to Xi Jinping ("Look at what I can [and will] do"), and to the rest of the world ("See, I'm not really buddies with Putin").
      Apparently, he told Xi Jinping over dinner.

      Technological advancement - Spend money on infrastructure projects and research.

      Education - Education is important regardless of its immediate usefulness in landing a job. Elementary and high school education are also in need of improvement.

    166. Re:Make America Great by ldephil · · Score: 1

      Err, no. That's a very shallow look at what's going on. He seems to be doing his best to squash any continuation or indeed improvement in the rights and access of females to reproductive assistance. That's a very regressive attitude, from a person who seems (by act and expression) to view them as lesser members of the human race. If he was as capable as his boasts, he'd be able to face down the wingnuts in his party demanding this. In general, he has shown himself to be extremely reluctant to advance society on any level (race, sex, you name it).

    167. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      After first warning Russia what he was about to do so they could warn Syria, which looks like the attack was mainly for domestic consumption.

    168. Re:Make America Great by sexconker · · Score: 0

      Quote the emoluments clause you claim Trump is in violation of.

      I dare you. It doesn't apply, and even if it did Congress could grant an exception. No one gives a shit about foreign business interests, the clause is put in place to prevent total puppets being installed by foreign states or foreign states buying policy. Notice how the democrats accuse Trump of being Putin's puppet but provide zero evidence. Also notice how Clinton was caught red handed in a pay-to-play scandal yet they don't want to talk about that.

      Trump's business interests and the money they generate are not emoluments, they are business interests. Until foreign states start handing him or his businesses bags of cash, it's not an issue. Even if that happens, Congress has the power to grant exceptions.

      Normally, the standard approach to this is that gifts to the President stay with the office. If you hand Trump a desk toy he can't take it when it leaves office. Truly personal gifts (e.g., in congratulation/condolence for something in their family/personal life) stay with the person. If you want to talk about violating the emolument clause, look no further than Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize that was awarded in anticipation of all that "Hope and Change".

    169. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the sort of dumb argument that only a Trump supporter would use.
        There was no peace treaty after WW1 either so the US is still at war with the Austro-Hungarian empire too.

    170. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His main handicap is being Donald Trump and I don't see that getting any better.

    171. Re: Make America Great by dougdonovan · · Score: 1

      if u r from india go back to india. im tired of telling you i cannot understand you on the phone.

    172. Re:Make America Great by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Treason against the United States, shall consist only in ... or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

      ...
      She did not aid any enemy because America has no list of enemies.

      The last list was WWII.

      You misread my post. We are in agreement.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    173. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His press secretary is a distraction, a slight of hand to keep everyone focused on the dumb ass and his shenanigans.

    174. Re: Make America Great by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Corporations set the price of their products, not the other way around. Also, they could charge lower prices for their products if they weren't guaranteeing higher returns to shareholders year over year. At some point the whole public trading system is not sustainable.

      Wut ? that system has outlasted the civilizations that spawned it.

    175. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "tensions were already elevated with Russia and NK doesn't justify ratcheting them higher"
      I am ambivalent towards Trump but
      screw the Russians and NK. Every belligerent action they send towards the US should be returned in kind with no apologies. Or are you the kind person who believes it's all just a big misunderstanding and we should do everything possible to be nice these two countries?
      Why have the worlds most potent military and financial dominance if you are never going to use them? Russia is a 3rd world country with a large nuclear arsenal and a GDP lower than the state of California. Obama succeeded in getting Russia bogged down in the Ukraine and Syria and Trump's latest slap on the wrist in Syria guarantees the Russians will not be withdrawing anytime soon. Russia is bleeding cash in these conflicts and sooner or later they will have to do the old Afghanistan retreat dance before their resources are spent and they become a Chinese client state. Compared to the GDP's and financial resources of the US and China Russia's financial figures is a rounding error.

      Trump's statements about NATO pushed the dead beat European members to finally pay their share of the cost. His Syria strike wasn't about doing a lot of damage it was a warning to both Russia and Syria that the US can hit anywhere at anytime and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. If the goal was to destroy the targeted air field they could have accomplished that quite easily. Maybe the MOAB deployment in Afghanistan was just a demonstration of the real damage that could be inflicted if necessary. The US has become too predictable over the years. Everyone use to know exactly what the US response would be to any given situation and know that has changed.

    176. Re: Make America Great by hawguy · · Score: 1

      I haven't heard anything about Trump increasing SOx, NOx, lead or mercury.

      EPA seeks to derail cleanup of coal power plant pollution
       

    177. Re: Make America Great by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      :) so true....

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    178. Re: Make America Great by houghi · · Score: 2

      The thing where I could verify was with clothes. I used to buy more expensive clothes as I was brought up on the idea that you pay fpr quality. So I bought for quality.
      The cheap clothes you bought where just that:cheap.
      Now I buy cheap clothes and they last almost as mong as the expensive ones.
      When I buy socks, I buy 30 pair of black socks. No sorting. I just bought new ones and threw out the old ones after 5 years or so (I had 27 of them left) as they started to turn grey. The price I paid for them was 30EUR. Last time I also paid 30EUR.
      That is 1EUR per pair. I could go for for these as I did in the past. But they did not last 15 times as long. So they where not 15 times as good.

      The thing is that the quality of cheap goods has increased. That makes it more economical to buy cheap in the long run.

      The same goes for electronics. DVD player I bought at one time was 400EUR. A week later I bought one for 40EUR. The first one did not last 10 times longer and the output quality of the images was the same.

      With tools the general advice is to first buy cheap and if it breaks, replace it with quality, because you might buy it, but perhaps not use it enough to break it.

      So no, you will not have complete infor,ation. Also because even if you do the things I did above, in case of the DVD player. The 400EUR one broke after 2 years. The 40EUR one did not. Meaningless with a samplesiwe of 1. However if I would have bought only the 40EUR one, it could have broken every 3 months with no warrenty so I would have need to buy a new one and in this case it STILL would have been cheaper.

      So cheaper has become more economical for a LOT of things in the long run.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    179. Re:Make America Great by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      You have a really low standard for "great" apparently. I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

      You apparently don't remember school. When the school is full of bullies and you're the nice, pacifist kid, what happens? You get the shit bit out of you and you don't get lunch because your lunch money was stolen. Don't berate the United States, berate the rest of the world was forcing us into an adversarial position. We tried it your way and globalization just about damned near wrecked this economy. You want to solve that problem, get off your butt from the comfort of your keyboard and chair and you go out and change the world into your utopian fantasy.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    180. Re:Make America Great by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Also, massive, unconstitutional emoluments clause violations. This will be his downfall.

      The rest of the stuff is just because he's an ignorant moron.

      We're already in a downfall, you know why right? We have an economic system whereby every citizen is required to pay for obligatory things like taxes and the only way to accumulate money is to exchange labor for it. The left (really the US Chamber of Commerce) sold us a pack of lies that stated that Globalization would not only bring about cheaper goods but it would also bring about better jobs. I think the theory was we give all the shit jobs to the other countries like China and India. Well guess what actually happened? You're still a wage slave and there is less opportunity for good paying labor to meet your financial obligations. The only people that actually benefited from this change are the rich people mostly sitting at the top of mega corporations and large investment firms. You do know which president actually championed these ideas right? His name is William Jefferson Clinton. If you're going to express concern for downfalls and a general concern of the welfare of the country, direct your concern appropriately to the things that have REALLY hurt this country.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    181. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you factor in longevity and quality

      No one want to do this nowadays... Less income.

    182. Re: Make America Great by Oneflower · · Score: 0

      We've had positions opened for many months, and it's extremely difficult to find qualified people to fill those positions at the salary we are offering.

      There, fixed it for ya.

    183. Re:Make America Great by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Trump's business interests and the money they generate are not emoluments, they are business interests. Until foreign states start handing him or his businesses bags of cash, it's not an issue.

      Well, then it's an issue. See Turkey. See China. See heads of state coming to his properties to meet with him.

      Jesus, why do you idiots have so many blinders on?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    184. Re: Make America Great by JD-1027 · · Score: 1

      and it's extremely difficult to find qualified people to fill those positions

      ..."at the rates we're willing to pay"

      My department is having the same issue with hiring people. We can't find people with the technical experience we want... at the rates we're willing to pay. We're getting tons of responses from India though.

      Pretend we doubled the salary on our open positions... we would have gobs of Americans applying.

      Let's do the opposite thought experiment to understand how this works. It's just supply and demand. Pretend 50% of the workforce is H1B and 50% citizens. If the H1B was stopped overnight, 50% of the workforce is gone and the remaining 50% of the workforce just got a lot more valuable. Higher salaries. This is what helps balance things. Higher salaries means it looks like a more attractive field. People in the field would be treated better (because they are more valuable). All of this leads to more people entering the field. Salaries raise and people are treated better until the field is at a better balancing point with the demand. It might even turn into a respected industry!

    185. Re: Make America Great by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Winning WWII by sacrificing 120% of our GDP yearly? Or maybe the great westward migration, in which a small population on the East Coast gave up comforts in return for free land?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    186. Re: Make America Great by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      This is the key. If green cards were based on international law enforcement, mental health, and international terrorism investigation database lookups instead of quotas and interviews, there'd be no need for the rest of this crap. And I bet you could reduce that decade and a half wait time down to Domino's rules- 30 minutes or less- for first and 2nd world countries, thereby creating incentives for 3rd world governments to modernize.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    187. Re: Make America Great by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      More like raped the civilizations that spawned it.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    188. Re:Make America Great by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Sorry. My apologies.

      Thanks.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    189. Re:Make America Great by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Heads of state meeting with heads of state is an issue? Are you retarded? How do you think diplomacy is done?

    190. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are confusing micro and macroeconomics.

    191. Re:Make America Great by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      "equal in opportunity" but only children of the White 1% get to be the corporate directors who control ALL the money
      That was foolish

    192. Re:Make America Great by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      A Meritocracy would have put 6 x bankrupt Trump in the poorhouse

    193. Re:Make America Great by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you're an expert troller or fucking retarded.

      trump makes money coming & going - from foreign governments.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    194. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      As has been pointed out, America was never at war with Korea. Please tell me when Congress declared war on North Korea; when you can't (because it didn't happen), please admit that you were wrong.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    195. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      You know, you could have stopped at "They look awful".

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    196. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The conservatives that freaked out about the cash award that came with Barak Obama's Nobel Prize.

      Democrats held both houses of Congress when Obama was awarded the prize, and the Constitution gives Congress the ability to allow the President to receive gifts from foreign governments. Obama gave it away on his own initiative, for his own political gain, not because 'conservatives were freaking out'.

      It was determined that Obama could accept the medal itself but had to give away the money.

      Which on its own was illegal anyway. Federal law says that large gifts received by the President belong to the US, not the President. He had no authority to give it away.

    197. Re:Make America Great by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      inflamed tensions with Russia

      Wait, I thought he was a Russian stooge. So difficult to keep up with this stuff.

      Well, I'm actually still watching this. Ever since Trump got into office, I've been saying that if he really was a stooge of Russia, or just easily manipulated, you'll see two things: 1) Increased hostilities between USA and Russia; 2) easing of American economic sanctions on Russia. Let's not kid ourselves, Russia does not want to be buddy buddy with the USA, they want to be our counterpart. They are building up their sphere of influence and allies and desire to restore the world to a cold war version of the original 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world description. Russia will get a lot of status in being the nemesis of the USA. Economic sanctions hurt them and they would probably want them opened up, but I have read things saying even that can be used by them as they now control their nation because they control all domestic production. There are no outside sources to destabilize their control. They'd more than likely just settle for being able to export but not import goods.

    198. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should stop drinking the kool-aid; your economic theories have never worked, and are provably never going to work.

      You live in an extremely sheltered bubble if you believe people getting shot by cops every single day for doing nothing have the same "equality of opportunity" as those who don't. How many leaked conversations from higher ups dictating that minorities get oppressed further by the state can you ignore? Why does reality have to kick you in the face before you'll acknowledge the steel toed boot breaking your jaw?

    199. Re:Make America Great by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Please detail how and where, with numbers.
      Also perform the same exercise with Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation.

    200. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm, even by Breitbart's standard for "news" the highest Trump has ever had is 47% approval. He is currently at 37%, the lowest of any president this long in their term in world history. He is literally and provably the worst president to not be elected by popular vote.

    201. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Only a few people are saying "scrap the H1B" program. "

      I think there are quite a few who say that, especially those who had to train their replacement in one of more jobs.

    202. Re: Make America Great by Arzaboa · · Score: 1

      24 Syrian jets were destroyed. That will hurt just about any military.

    203. Re:Make America Great by Raenex · · Score: 1

      He seems to be doing his best to squash any continuation or indeed improvement in the rights and access of females to reproductive assistance.

      You misspelled government-funded abortions.

    204. Re:Make America Great by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Instead, Assad launched a chemical weapons attack on Ibdil, making it impossible for Trump not to respond. One could hardly imagine a stupider Syrian response to what was essentially a peace gesture.

      Which makes the whole thing suspicious in the first place, just like when Syria supposedly launched a chemical attack after Obama drew his "red line" against chemical weapons.

    205. Re:Make America Great by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      We are making America Great Again!

      I doubt it. Like water, business expenses flow downhill. And like water, block a leak in one place, and another will form elsewhere.

      The problem is that senior management (directors and close managers) earn too much money for their responsibilities.
      Live by the 7 to 1 rule. A manager can manage 7 other managers, and have time for himself.
      Does he deserve a salary that's more than 1.5 times the average of his direct reports? Is he a shareholder or is his high salary really stealing dividends from shareholders. In a corporation no person is worth more than 400K/yr. The other net money belongs as dividends.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    206. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >As for the nation's citizenry, they are equal. Equality of opportunity, that is.

      You obviously have no experience with the private school system, or how the affluent raise their kids and provide opportunities, vs. everyone else. They are worlds apart, always have been, though more so today as wealth inequality rises.

    207. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a load of crap. If you've had a position open for months then you have had time to hire someone who isn't a perfect fit and let them catch up.

      After 20 years running my own tech firm, I got bored with it and started breeding fish. Selective breeding is slow, so I taught myself molecular biology, starting from zero to the point that I can artifically produce hormones, engineer crispr, and modify organisms, in the course of three weeks. In three weeks I went form high school biology understanding to growing my first genetically modified ornamental fish.

      Someone bright who already works your field should be able to catch up to what they need to know in the months you've had your position open. I don't care what it is, or how difficult you think it is, someone learned it so someone else can too.

    208. Re:Make America Great by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      What exactly has he done wrong so far?

      Look at his cabinet and supreme court picks. Our shitty public education system became much, much worse. Harmless people are afraid to so much as enter a bathroom. Rampant racism. The fucking pipeline. Removing protections for animals, people with jobs, your privacy and mine, and enabling big business to fuck us even harder than before. Destroying even the limited progress we were making against climate escalation. Encouraging sex crimes and the nightmare that is coal. I'm curious in which universe 50% = 40%, because in mine it sure doesn't. Are you a sociopath, or just a troll?

    209. Re:Make America Great by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And those nations would be...?

      Try the democracy index. The US fails hard there among western nations, since it is an oligarchic republic. Twenty-first? That doesn't sound like the world's greatest anything, let alone democracy. We're actually below Japan. Remember when we bombed them for democracy?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    210. Re:Make America Great by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Oh I guess you mistook an Armistance Agreement (Cease Fire) of 1953 != Peace Teaty.

      Wait, he mistook it for not being equal to? So it was equal to?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    211. Re:Make America Great by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Half a million dollars from the head of Venezuela good enough?

      http://news.sky.com/story/madu...

      Also, Hillary can't have the emolument clause held against her. But sure.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    212. Re:Make America Great by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      bernie is a socialist. i don't like socialism. i think socialism killed more people than world war 2.

      What am I to take from this? That Bernie Sanders would kill a lot of people if elected?

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    213. Re:Make America Great by sexconker · · Score: 1

      That went to the inauguration fund. It's nothing unusual. Venezuela did it because they want the US to ignore the strife going on over there. Yet the White House issued a "fuck you" statement. So where's the beef?

      Hillary can't have the emolument clause held against her now, but she was a candidate for the same office and was engaged with far worse dealings than Trump has even been accused of. She was proven to engage in pay-to-play bullshit with the money going to her personal piggy bank in the name of the Clinton Foundation.

    214. Re: Make America Great by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      I have some Falke socks. They're more comfortable than my cheap pairs. They may not be as economical, but there are other factors to consider for quality than just durability.

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
  2. It already bears fruit by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

    Only hours after the announcement, corporations all over America started hiring lawyers to find new loopholes in the law.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:It already bears fruit by c · · Score: 1, Informative

      Only hours after the announcement, corporations all over America started hiring lawyers to find new loopholes in the law.

      Given the "swamp draining" skills Trump's shown so far, I'm expecting that he's going to outsource the implementation and enforcement of the H1B program to an Indian corporation...

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    2. Re:It already bears fruit by MiniMike · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, but now they're hiring American lawyers!

    3. Re:It already bears fruit by ranton · · Score: 2

      Only hours after the announcement, corporations all over America started hiring lawyers to find new loopholes in the law.

      Most of that hiring was done months ago by lobbying groups involved in crafting the executive order. Now those lawyers will be working as consultants for the large corporations.

      No looking for loopholes necessary, they were already baked in purposefully. And this is a case where Trump is no different than any other politician so no Trump bashing is really appropriate.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    4. Re:It already bears fruit by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > corporations all over America started hiring lawyers to find new loopholes in the law.

      Were those lawyers H-1B's?

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    5. Re:It already bears fruit by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Does it really matter to you whether you get ripped off by a foreigner or a domestic leech?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:It already bears fruit by DigiShaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, a judge in California or Washington will shoot it down on the grounds of being discriminatory to Indians (dot, not feather). Also, and most importantly, it puts a "burden" on the tech sector for not having access to cheap global labor. I SHIT YOU NOT, that's how it will go down in flames. I'm 100% correct on this, just wait.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:It already bears fruit by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1


      Does it really matter to you whether you get ripped off by a foreigner or a domestic leech?

      it doesn't matter where he grips it; its a matter of weight ratios.

      (oh, wait...)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    8. Re:It already bears fruit by dwillden · · Score: 1

      No, Lawyers is one job set we have no shortage of.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    9. Re:It already bears fruit by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      This, or lobbying will convince everyone that they can either ship cheap labor here or they ship the whole company overseas.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Realistically, we will just see L-1 or B-1 visa abuse, with the relatively tiny fines considered a cost of doing business. It isn't hard for a business to hire a bunch of people over in Lower Elbonia, send them over to the US for "training" for 6-12 months, then at that time, they get rotated back, and another group arrives to (in reality) man the offices.

    11. Re:It already bears fruit by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Ooooh, someone went through a bad divorce...

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    12. Re:It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure how this is getting mod'ed "funny" but it's ./ crapfest after all.

      BTW: It's not a law, it's Obama's favorite Executive Action congress didn't have anything to do with it.

    13. Re: It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt any judge would do that, it would be political suicide.

      Also people would issue death threats, and possibility (try to) assassinate him.

    14. Re:It already bears fruit by ghoul · · Score: 1

      Or send the company to a ship. Anchor a cruiseliner 3 miles off the coast of San Francisco and have all the foreigners live in the cruise liner. With Movies , restaurants , swimming pools,gyms and personal space more than Silicon Valley apartments as well as no visa hassles, cellphone coverage its like living in America with no taxes. Can always fly in on a medical visa to visit the doctor or have a doctor do ship calls.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    15. Re:It already bears fruit by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      Only hours after the announcement, corporations all over America started hiring lawyers to find new loopholes in the law.

      But this isn't a law. The Executive Branch doesn't make laws. All EO is doing is ordering some of Trumps reports to create a report by Thanksgiving to let him know what he can do about buying American made goods without Congresses approval. No corporations need to do a thing about this.

    16. Re:It already bears fruit by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The US considers its territorial waters to start 100mi from shore. So you'd have to be quite a bit further out.

    17. Re: It already bears fruit by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      It's happened already. You think part 2 of this is going to be any different?! Don't doubt me!

      http://m.slashdot.org/thread/5...

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    18. Re:It already bears fruit by ghoul · · Score: 2

      3 Miles is the customs zone where visas are required. 12 miles is territorial waters. 200 miles is Exclusive Economic Zone. It can be argued that there is no economic activity going on as salaries are paid in home countries and the folks are simply on vacation and using their laptops during vacation. Outside the customs zone no inspections can be done by Dept. of Labor or USCIS.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    19. Re:It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 Miles is the customs zone where visas are required. 12 miles is territorial waters. 200 miles is Exclusive Economic Zone. It can be argued that there is no economic activity going on as salaries are paid in home countries and the folks are simply on vacation and using their laptops during vacation. Outside the customs zone no inspections can be done by Dept. of Labor or USCIS.

      Send in the pirates !

    20. Re:It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OF course. You are absolutely right. Eventually all the tech jobs will go abroad, like all manufacturing jobs. Its a race to cheaper labor all around... this measures will only speed up the process.

    21. Re:It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm 100% correct on this, just wait.

      No, you're not '100% correct'. You're bullshitting about the future that you know just as much about as anyone else.

    22. Re:It already bears fruit by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      So, you're expecting the 9th Circuit to say that it's a ban on Hindu immigration? I wouldn't be surprised given their track record.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    23. Re:It already bears fruit by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      On the grounds of it being a financial "burden". That was the same reason they shot down his executive for banning Muslims from a list of seven nations; and that was regarding National Security. You don't get more of a financial burden than putting up an Executive order involving H1B.

      This is going to the SCOTUS. I don't see it going any other way.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    24. Re: It already bears fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering how many Indians immigrate through other means, I don't see what leg they'd have to stand on. But I'm certain some slick lawyer will find one for them.

    25. Re:It already bears fruit by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You know you're dealing with the country that has the biggest operational fleet of submarines and a prez that doesn't seem to have much of a problem to try them out, yes?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. It's A Start by StormReaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At least it's moving in the right direction. However, there is no shortage of skilled American workers. Just the opposite is true. We have a glut of skilled American workers, but there is a dramatic shortage of decent, livable-wage jobs in America.

    While tightening the rules around H1B is a good start, the system needs to be entirely gutted.

    1. Re:It's A Start by Theovon · · Score: 2

      I don’t think it’s a matter of being in their 40’s. I’m in my 40’s and I pick up new languages as I need to. But I really enjoy this stuff. Computer science is as much a hobby for me as it is a profession. A lot of people get into tech fields because they want a job, not because they give a crap about the topic. For someone who lacks enthusiasm, learning a single programming language is a super big deal because it’s effort they don’t want to expend. Those people won’t be retrained in their 20’s or 30’s. Indeed, someone who has had this attitude may be *more* inclined to pick up new languages in their 40’s if their experience has taught them some discipline and the value of hard work.

    2. Re:It's A Start by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      . You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+.

      You might be able to, but you're not going to retrain them on-the-job for completely different sets of skills than the ones that they've used previously and you're absolutely not going to be able to train them for things that they didn't stand a chance of being able to learn when they were in their 20s.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:It's A Start by lq_x_pl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+
      And this is the sort of age-ist bullshit that makes it easier for companies to continue abusive hiring practices. Is it reasonable to say that every 40+ worker can be a programmer? No, but to paint a huge swath of the population with the "they're simply untrainable" brush is as intolerant and ignorant as making any broad statement about broad swaths of the population.
      (30+ programmer here)

      --
      An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
    4. Re:It's A Start by bfpierce · · Score: 1

      What we have is a glut of workers (in software anyways) that THINK they're skilled.

      Turns out floating through your undergraduate, gaining no work experience, and being terrible at interviewing makes you ill prepared to work in the field. Who knew.

    5. Re:It's A Start by InvalidsYnc · · Score: 1

      I can see it from multiple sides. One is that companies feel like they cannot find the right workers, or it takes them "too long", so they decide to spend an inordinate amount of time and money sponsoring people to get H1-B's, when if they had anyone that was worth the salt at all, they could be helping to raise up someone that maybe doesn't yet have the skill set they want, but could be training them in the mean time. Experience and the willingness of the employer to help in that education is what creates people who can reach that next level.
       
      And perhaps there are instance where a company cannot find the "perfect" fit as far as skill set, in that case, if an H1-B is the right option, then so be it, but they should be looking to enrich their own people at the same time, helping them to learn from this person that they had to "ship in" to help with the company.
       
      Anyway, that's all just a few aspects of it. H1-B isn't evil, but it can be used to the detriment of our country, which is what I believe the Trump administration is trying to help with. It's probably not a perfect solution, and in a country as well defined by political boundaries as our own, there most assuredly cannot be, because everyone is a self proclaimed Rhodes Scholar and knows better than everyone else. Lord knows I do. ;-)

    6. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except America software engineers who know Python are losing out to H1B's. Try harder.

    7. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... next stop, I would like him to discontinue the Green Card Lottery. I don't see the point of giving away 50000 green cards every year to people who may have just a high school degree.

    8. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should start talking about H1b & L1a/b visas together. Does America have a shortage of managers to have such a huge number of managers imported?

      The overhaul Trump is proposing will be easily tackled by the vast Indian middle management in IT sector in USA.

    9. Re:It's A Start by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+.

      Really? I am over 40 and most of the stuff I am doing now was not even in existence 10 years ago. Of course you can not expect anyone under 30 to be rational... ;)

    10. Re:It's A Start by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      I am against h1b because I think we should be going after people that want to stay here, not people that want to work and save and leave with their money. (Or send it "home.")

    11. Re:It's A Start by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+.

      After first hand experience I find this false. It depends on the person, their motivation, talent, and most importantly the companies willingness to invest in people. I had to retrain a "programmer" in their 50's. While he is slower and makes rookie mistakes he has a good work ethic (much better than mine TBH). Initially, I didn't want to have anything to do with him because I felt it was a waste of my time to go over basic things but my boss told us "we invest in people and our people are our most valuable asset". After some time, he is making good progress and being productive where I don't have to question every decision he makes (only some). Besides his speed he is doing fine and contributing to the company and projects.

      Yes, it was difficult and frustrating and there is nothing romantic or idealistic about retraining someone twice your age. But if the company values the people it employs a few years investment is nothing.

    12. Re:It's A Start by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The thing I see is that when companies are open to training, they generally expect a person to keep up their current job AND train. The problem is that people in their 40's more frequently have families and companies are not interested in giving them time purely for training. Can a person train in their 40's? Of course. Are they willing to do it on their own time? Far less likely. Is it fair that employees are expected to do it on their own time? No way.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    13. Re:It's A Start by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I switched jobs when I was 40. I went from a retail job that I had been working at for over a decade, to a programmer at a small company.

      Now, I had a degree in Computer Science, so it's not like I was making that jump with nothing to back it up. But I still spent the first couple months on the job just learning. (Hell, technically, I'm still learning.)

      Not everyone is going to be able to make that jump. Sometimes it's going to be because of their age. Or rather, because some people believe that at their age, they can't make that jump. Some people can't make that jump because they lack the skills and can't get hired at an entry-level position when there are better applicants available.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    14. Re:It's A Start by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Switching languages is a minor change; switching paradigms is major... and switching from physical to mental work (or the other direction) for the first time at 40+ is nearly impossible.

      Any job development programs at your company to help train 50-year old immigrant taxi drivers to program?

    15. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe someone in the industry for a long time can comment. Did it ever used to be the case that a person would be trained in-house to fill a position?

    16. Re:It's A Start by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      There's no glut of skilled workers. Unskilled? Oh, hell yes. But sorry, kids, but you can't take Joe Factory Worker and teach him Python

      Nice strawman there. A better example would be a geeky computer programmer with a tested IQ above 135 and a bachelors degree in computer science and a deep passion and love for all kinds of coding (including assembly) from a good US university who can spend literally years searching for a code monkey job but who has to settle for bagging groceries at a supermarket instead. It's not just a cliche. It's very real. At least that is the world I grew up in. Way way way more qualified job candidates than there were jobs and every year there are more and more graduates from all over the world. And being smart and hard working and loving the work has absolutely no effect whatsoever on whether or not you get hired by anyone. In the real world it's more about who you know and how charming you are than it is how smart you are or how good you are at writing clean, beautiful, and efficient code. AFAICT that is still the world we live in and maybe you've just been damn lucky and so haven't noticed.

      Maybe it's a different world now. Although it's hard to see why. We now have the entire mega-country of India competing for a fixed number of coding jobs. It seems entirely hopeless to me. Especially if you are a geek without people skills who has little chance to charm a job interviewer. In reality getting a job was always more about being likeable than being skilled. Most interviewers don't even test your skills. Maybe now that has changed and no one goes to an interview without hundreds of pages of their code for the interviewer to read, but that would kind of surprise me. It would be too logical and make too much sense for our corporate overlords.Why anyone would hire someone for a coding job without spending at least an hour reading their code I will never know.

      Again, afaict, the problem of no one wanting to hire recent graduates with no real world work experience has not changed. There is just too big of a pool of already employed programmers for the corporate HR drones to hire. Of course the employers tend to want someone with 7-10 years of experience doing exactly the same thing that they want to do so there is no learning curve at all. If I had to guess they probably end up hiring liars who just put whatever is needed in their resume. Whether Indian or American.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    17. Re:It's A Start by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      > the system needs to be entirely gutted

      I don't know what that means, both in general, and in implementation. But it sure makes you sound tough on something. I'm not convinced you have any idea what it means either. Most people just seem to stop talking after their suggestion is to tear something down.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    18. Re:It's A Start by Dissenter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. In the last 10 years I have seen more companies abusing this in the tech sectors than I have ever seen before. TATA Consulting Services or TCS has taken advantage of the lax H1-B rules in so many companies. Look at the more public cases like ComEd (midwest power company), Disney and others where TCS and other offshore companies were hired to place people here in the US to replace American workers simply because they were able to provide cheaper labor. They aren't paying prevailing wages, they are paying $50k - $60k for jobs that normally pay $75k to $80k. These workers live in apartments that are subsidised by TCS with roommates (2-3) so that they can afford housing. Sure it's white collar work with living wage rates, but these guys aren't bringing in 3-5 year veterans, they are bringing in college grads from India and other countries. We have TONS of college grads in technology that are looking for jobs. Many would be happy to take the $50k, but companies sign multi-BILLION DOLLAR contracts with these "offshoring companies" that require them to supply both offshore AND ONSHORE resources. As agile and other technical project management methodologies become more and more common, the need for having local resources that are able to work together more collaboratively has resulted in companies sponsoring ONSHORE replacement programs.

      That is the outrageous abuse that revamping the H1-B program needs to address. I have worked for and consulted for a number companies in the last 10 years and almost every one of them had some degree (some far more than others) of H1-B program in place that, at minimum, was using it to pay under-skilled foreigners less to "fill a role" that could be easily filled by native talent.

      To be clear, I am not an isolationist and many of the people that have come from these companies and countries are god friends of mine. Yes, on a personal level, I don't want to see them go, the the fact is that we are supposed to have a government that protects it's citizens, not a globalized economic system that puts us back into a pre-unionized age where the workers become oppressed and a slave class. Okay, that's a bit over the top, I mean getting paid $50k to sit at a desk and right code isn't anywhere near slavery, but my point is that it is regression and we shouldn't take that step back.

      To answer the obvious troll questions, yes, I am personally very frustrated by this whole issue. I have been in countless positions to hire talented people in junior roles where I can mentor and develop the kind of skills that college grads need. I have had interns from some universities that have shown promise, but rather than hire on some of these folks, I have been specifically told by one company that I cannot and that we need to meet the "contractual obligations of TCS and fill the role with an H1-B worker". When you're in that position, TCS doesn't send you top talent. The company, not the individual, has rewritten a resume for someone that has 1-2 years of offshore call center experience and coached them to lie in the interview. They coach them on what to say to basic job skill questions and often they have little to no experience other than a book they read on the plane trip to the US. I'm not joking, I have actually be told by a worker once that this was the case.

      Now, I've also hired a couple of VERY TALENTED folks that needed H1-B sponsorship and, if I am not able to find someone else to fill that specialized role (sometimes with jobs paying into the 6 figures) have agreed to cover the H1-B sponsorship costs. That is what this is supposed to be used for, but honestly, I can say that's been 2 times of the hundreds that I have seen over the last 10 years. This isn't an anti-world and anti-immigration thing, this is an anti-letting companies abuse policies that hurt US workers thing.

      --

      Dissenter
      "There is no knowledge that is not power."

    19. Re:It's A Start by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      I started learning VMware at 40. At 47, I have two concurrent jobs supporting VMware in Fortune 100 companies. Both pay very nicely.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    20. Re:It's A Start by Dissenter · · Score: 1

      sit at a desk and right code

      Times like this really need an edit button so I don't feel so bad.

      --

      Dissenter
      "There is no knowledge that is not power."

    21. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AHhh HAAHAA!!! Forty is NOTHING! Really now, c'mon. Many of us, (myself included), have retrained as needed and were successful BECAUSE of our experience & knowing how we learn best or some other positive attribute we've cultivated- this can be an advantage across ANY profession.

      Knowing HOW to learn is more important that memorization. Problem solving (and knowing oneself) go leagues & leagues beyond a trainable skill. You should cultivate that now, so you will remain trainable when you are forty. We know you can do it :D

    22. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+

      What, do you think the first programming languages were created by people in their late teens/early 20s? That is so cute.

    23. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Being terrible at interview skills" seriously? So instead of being functionally skilled you should be better at pedalling bullshit?

      While I agree you *have to be better* at pedalling bullshit during an interview, I think that is yet another part of the problem. I came to the realization as a young adult, that it's vastly more important to be able to successfully lie and manipulate people ("manage") than to be skillful at other tasks. I used to worry about my sociopathic tendencies, but our current business system told me to embrace them.

    24. Re: It's A Start by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      One is that companies feel...

      Sorry, no.

    25. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Hell, technically, I'm still learning.)

      If you're not still learning, you're not doing it right. There's a reason why physicians and attorneys "practice" their profession.
      If you don't look at code you wrote 3+ years ago and say to yourself, "what was I thinking?" then you're probably doing the job wrong.

    26. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone that lives in a non tech area, I agree. It is one thing to look at the issue when you are in Silicon Valley, NYC, Boston, or other tech hot spot in the US. It is another thing to live in an area that is not perceived to be into technology.

      I've had the H1b argument thrown in my face several times. "If you won't do this for some small pittance, we'll just get some guy on H1b to do it for a few shillings." is the line that I have heard more than once. I've always just walked away from douchebags like this. The reality is that it is their money, and they can piss it away however they want to. People with attitudes like this always piss their money away.

      Now, I get that there appear to be two parts to the H1B issue. There is the high end MSFT, Oracle, Facebook crowd that pay a lot of money for the people that use the H1B program the way it was intended. There are the low end body shop people that are another source. The low end body shop people are the problem. But, I've known and seen this for 20+ years as a problem.

      I've got a BS & MS in Electrical Engineering from a prestigious school. I've written 8 (or maybe 10) books on computer programming. I've done high level consulting around the country. I have to live where I live due to a long story. I'm not moving anywhere. I talk to other people in our area. There is definitely a glut of high level people in my area.

      A lot of these high tech companies would be better off if they didn't think that everyone wants to magically move to their location. They all talk about opening up development centers overseas. How about opening up additional development centers right here in the US? They never seem to want to do this. I can walk you into a location with office space you can get today. I can show you people that have significant technical skill today that are stuck doing shit work. I can show you people with advanced degrees today.

    27. Re:It's A Start by swb · · Score: 1

      I wonder how closely economists have looked at the "send it home" phenomenon. What portion of immigrant income is repatriated?

      Economists generally favor immigration, believing it results in greater economic domestic economic activity. But if some large portion of immigrant wages is sent abroad, it would seem to undermine some of the increased economic activity aspect.

      In previous eras, it was much more difficult to repatriate wages, and I wonder if econometrics associated with immigration still has a bias on income predominantly remaining in the US.

    28. Re:It's A Start by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      Turns out floating through your undergraduate, gaining no work experience, and being terrible at interviewing makes you ill prepared to work in the field. Who knew.

      Floating as in being one of the best students in your class for instance? Floating because you are so smart that the classes and assignments are too easy and you spend most of your time working on your own projects? And how are computer science students supposed to get work experience if no one wants to hire them? Unless they are Indian of course. And lie on their resumes. The whole corporate HR hiring system is so idiotic and badly broken those monkeys have zero right to complain about there not being enough skilled American workers. There are plenty of them. Highly intelligent and if anything overeducated for the wage-slave work they are being hired for. If I had known just how badly broken the system was when I started at university I would not even have even planned on ever applying for a job. I would just have gone directly to planning my own business instead.

      Working for other people means you have to be likeable. If you are the kind of person people don't like it does not matter how clever you are or how good you are at what you do. You'll be lucky to get a job working at Walmart. What we need a lot more than stupid H1B labor importation programs is a good and fair system for buying and selling skilled labor. One that ideally does not even depend on university degrees but uses talent and intelligence as the only metric. I'd much rather hire a smarter and harder working non degree holder than a dumber and lazier but more educated one, but of course the corporate world I think just doesn't care enough to bother trying to improve the laughably bad system we currently have. Why is it for instance that the price you are willing to sell your labor for has little to no effect on how easy it is to get a job? Well unless you were born in India. Unfortunately I was unlucky enough to have been born in the USA and so couldn't find a job in the field I loved. I wonder if putting an Indian name on my job applications would have helped.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    29. Re:It's A Start by Altus · · Score: 1

      Well if the time period you are talking about is 2002-2004, yes, things are considerably better now. That was an awful time to be graduating as a CS major, I was only a few years ahead of that period and it hit me pretty hard, but recently, I don't see people sitting out of work for long periods of time, I don't see high unemployment in the tech sector at all, certainly nothing like what it was back then.

      But every industry goes through dips like that, and the economy is still stuck in a boom or bust cycle, but I have yet to see any evidence that the job market for software engineers is really so difficult right now that qualified candidates are sitting around desperate for work.

      Not that that means we shouldn't consider reforming H1-B visas, hiring for only high paid positions is probably the best way to go as it will hopefully encorage more training of people on the low end. I know a woman who is around 30 with no tech background, who recently went through a 6 month bootcamp to prepare for a career in QA (an area frequently filled by H1-b visa holders in my experience) and now she has good solid job. With less low cost H1-b visa holders we might see more and more of this which could be quite valuable. Certainly you can't just retrain everyone into one kind of profession but when it comes to tech we would do well to not close off the entry level of the field from people who are changing careers.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    30. Re:It's A Start by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      I'm 43, and constantly learning new IT skills. I'm now managing a network that spans 3 countries. The job before this was a NOC tech for Sabre. I've had to really spend time doing research on everything from Elastix, S2S VPNs, command-line ESXi, datastore CLI, Cisco, GPOs, Exchange, etc. It's more like things I knida knew how to do, I am pretty proficient now. I wouldn't want to try and take just anyone and make them an IT person...but there is FAR more to IT than just programming. Of course, a high IQ and an adderal prescription really help too LOL.

    31. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even after 40, people will switch jobs and learn new skills. Sure beats being on the streets.

    32. Re:It's A Start by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Actually it was the early 90s and it was mainly the old 'can't get experience without a job and can't get a job without experience' problem. Has the world finally figured out a solution for this or are there still PhDs bagging groceries like in those days? When I was looking I could not find a single coding job that advertised 'no experience necessary' as you could find in other fields. An 'entry level' position still required 1-3 years of real world paid job experience. Seriously no one wanted to hire someone without experience. No one. Full stop. Or at least you really did have to know someone if you wanted to get a job straight out of university. Hell my cousin got a job coding for a large company even though he had pretty much no experience and no computer science degree, but that was in the late 80s when a degree was still optional occasionally. He had a friend who worked at the company who helped him get the job.

      A friend recently told me, "Everyone lies on their resume". And in fact he has gotten more than one job solely because he was willing to lie about past experience and even education. I guess that could be one way out of the no one wanting to hire fresh graduates problem: pretend not to be one. I did not want to lie though. I eventually just gave up on the idea of getting paid to code. No one was interested. Not at any price. Not that price was even a factor. It's not like I could lowball my own salary and get a job that way. There were no systems in place to do that. I'm guessing there still aren't.

      The labor market is so incredibly inefficient. Being smart and hard working should make it easier to get a job, but it doesn't really. There are no systems in place for the buyers of the labor to be able to distinguish between the smart applicants and the ones who just pretend to be. In fact from what I've read how you look is more important. As a species I think we are really overrated. Not Great Apes. Just apes. I tend to blame corporations for some of this inefficiency. They are so big and the responsibility for everything is so spread out that there is a tendency to not give a fuck about inefficiencies in the system.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    33. Re:It's A Start by cjonslashdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think that age is relevant. I am 61, and I am completely current in my field (containers, Kubernetes). A few years back I worked at a small company populated with "DevOps" folks - all younger than me - and I ended up leaving because they were not able to mentally shift from VMs to containers. Age is not the issue. Also, while most of "middle America" is not going to turn into programmers, some of the young people in middle America who are just starting out might pick an IT career if they think there is opportunity in it - but they won't if all the jobs are taken by H1B people.

    34. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The interview practices from unions are setup for identic memory or asking things they can not even answer. I've asked. They can't answer. I can. I've been consistently employed (not a looser), but the way Indians interview when they want to make you look bad is easy.

      I can ask anyone here only questions they can't answer. We all know it's easy to do. In all your fields. And I could then say you are not qualified.

      All of you. No one can possibly know everything. Especially fringe scenarios. You all would fail. Be design. See now - who is really unskilled?

    35. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nowadays it is easier to get a well-paying job if you are charismatic or falsely confident to the point of lying about your ability than by being actually competent.

      I struggle to find opportunities that pay reasonable wages, because people who DO "float" through their undergraduate degrees but know how to spout bullshit are better at selling themselves. Experience is easy to sell, but competence is different.

    36. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Immigrants, *by definition*, spend their money here (since they, you know, *immigrated*.) Generally if they are sending money back to their home country it's so that their family members and friends can immigrate here.

      Temporary workers (H1-B's, illegal immigrants, etc.) are typically the ones that send their money back home instead of reinvesting it in the local economy.

    37. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true. How many visa Indians migrant workers have told me they just got out of school. Yet they are team leads?? And can't do jquery. Or data access in java or csharp.... yeah. They have 5 years of experience.

      Lets talk about certifications. They are difficult to get. You have to be an expert in knowledge to get them. Perhaps this can be the advantage?

      But no fair standards in interviewing or hiring. We absolutely do not want to dictate how people hire. But crack down on discrimination if they do.

      Did you get an interviewer that speaks your language proficienly? No. The interview could not be done fairly for sure. Did they ask you questions relevant to the position? No. Discrimination. Did they disclose the position requires a photographic memory (no), then ask you questions that require identic memory? Discrimination.

      Then contact HR. Then the state. Start reporting. They weren't going to hire you anyway. We need to build evidence. They all do it to all of us.

    38. Re:It's A Start by ghoul · · Score: 1

      Just for curiosity with a CS degree why were you working retail?

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    39. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are high wage jobs. 100k + Vast income is sent overseas.

    40. Re:It's A Start by computational+super · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think 25 year-olds realize how relatively young 40 actually is...

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    41. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been writing software for 32 years and I'm *still* learning. I figure if I ever *stop* learning I'll be out of a job.

      Having said that, it would be nice if the devs in Silly Valley stopped trying to make a name for themselves by pushing out crap JavaScript "frameworks" on the rest of the world simply for the purpose of getting hired by a unicorn. (You'd think that all of the news about the sociopathic personalities of startup management teams would convince people that there generally is no pot of gold at the end of those rainbows, but apparently they aren't as bright in Silly Valley as the think...)

    42. Re:It's A Start by ghoul · · Score: 1

      If you have technical folks , a low cost of living and office space in your area what is preventing you from starting up a company? If guys from overseas can come to this country, not knowing the culture , getting underpaid (as you say) can start up consulting firms (body shoppers as you say) why cant you a native do so? Something is fishy in your arguments.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    43. Re:It's A Start by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The problem is not so much that they're in their 40s, it's that when you eliminate a category of jobs you're telling people to move to higher-skilled jobs. You then have the question: if you weren't able to train for this higher-skilled job when you were in your 20s, are you going to be able to train for it now that you're in your 40s? For most people, the answer is 'no'. The only exceptions are people who could have learned to do the job 20 years ago, but couldn't get the training or were discouraged from the field.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    44. Re:It's A Start by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Floating because you are so smart that the classes and assignments are too easy and you spend most of your time working on your own projects?

      And those things are online? And you can point at them on your CV and in an interview? And that code is actually mostly competent? If so, I can name a bunch of companies that would love to hire you.

      Working for other people means you have to be likeable

      No, it means that you have to be able to work with other people, because they're looking for someone who makes the team more productive in aggregate.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    45. Re:It's A Start by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      And what did you do before that?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    46. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no shortage of IT jobs in America. If you can't find one then look in the mirror.

    47. Re:It's A Start by CaptnCrud · · Score: 1

      And it's no different on the code side. They remix the same crap every 5 years and call it something new, or resurrect something old. I went from php web apps to perl web apps to now python and c#.. frameworks, languages.....its all the same one idiom to rule them all paradigm, instead of just using the right tools for the right job...it's all the same shit...its like living in a world where you have 10 things and millions of terms for those 10 things...but its still just those 10 things....if that makes any sense >>

    48. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are an arrogant piece of **** that' s the problem. No wonder you don't get hired.

    49. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not ageism, it's common sense. Retraining people at that age is difficult because people simply lose the mental flexibility to learn effectively. Yes, I know, there are anedoctes to the contrary but that's what they are: anedcotes. Nothing more. By far and large people are difficult to train within their own field when they're 35+ or earlier, let alone a completely different field. Simple economics dictate it makes no sense. Sorry, but in this economy we cannot affort to make an attempt to retrain people in their middle age in a completely different field in the hope some of them may make it. It's just the way it is. Deal with it.

    50. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. You cannot train a factory worker to be a programmer when they're in the 40s any better than you can teach a garbageman to be an engineer. Simple as that. Besides the world does not need that many programmers or engineers. The majority of the workforce is simply not needed anymore and cannot be retrained or employed in any way. Draw your own conclusions.

    51. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the first cars were not designed by people in their early 20s. This does not mean that a modern car manufacturer should not hire engineers in their 20s now. Face it: the road is paved, the pioneer work has been already done. There is nothing revolutionary to be done any more, and teams of young and motivated people is the future. The lonesome middle-aged inventor is a cute character for a movie but reality is another thing. If you're over 35 in IT you're finished, and that's it. If you think you can get into IT after 35 AND get any gainful employed you're deluded. You will never make it past HR. Ever. Give up and look around for a job more suited to your current skills.

    52. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on the field. Trying to find a decent C programmer these days isn't easy.

    53. Re:It's A Start by Greystripe · · Score: 1

      To be fair, do you really want to wrong code?

    54. Re:It's A Start by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      When I first started my career it was pretty standard for people to get one or two paid courses a year. They would ask you where you wanted to go and put you in a course if that was what was required. Now my company doesn't pay for courses at all.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    55. Re:It's A Start by slew · · Score: 1

      Floating as in being one of the best students in your class for instance? Floating because you are so smart that the classes and assignments are too easy and you spend most of your time working on your own projects? And how are computer science students supposed to get work experience if no one wants to hire them?

      Does someone has a chip on their shoulder? In my experience, teamwork is way more important than being the "best". Who cares who is the best anyhow? If nobody understands what you are doing, how are they gonna test it? How are they gonna maintain that clever algorithm? How can they figure out if the project is ahead or behind schedule? What are they going to do when you quit and move to greener pastures?

      FWIW, Big companies often will sweep hire NCG (new college grads), and sort them over a 2 year stretch. Might not be glamorous work, but that is the entry point for many into certain professions (programming, accounting, engineering, etc).

      Working for other people means you have to be likeable. If you are the kind of person people don't like it does not matter how clever you are or how good you are at what you do. You'll be lucky to get a job working at Walmart.

      Not much to say about that... Except duh... What good is it if you have a person with 200% of average productivity when it drags down the productivity 20% of the other 10 people on the team that have to interact with that person?

      That being said, everyone can be likable, but many folks that think that someone is not likable tend to be simply projecting themselves, so says my psychiatrist friend. How can anyone be sure that *nobody* else likes that person? Projecting your own biases on to other folks is basically conceit, right?

    56. Re:It's A Start by computational+super · · Score: 1

      I talked to a recruiter a few years ago who was trying to fill a C++ programming position. I was interested, since I have a strong background in C++. The position was offering $65K/year, in the Dallas, TX area. Yeah, they're trying really hard to find good C programmers.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    57. Re:It's A Start by slew · · Score: 1

      I wonder how closely economists have looked at the "send it home" phenomenon. What portion of immigrant income is repatriated?

      Economists generally favor immigration, believing it results in greater economic domestic economic activity. But if some large portion of immigrant wages is sent abroad, it would seem to undermine some of the increased economic activity aspect.

      In previous eras, it was much more difficult to repatriate wages, and I wonder if econometrics associated with immigration still has a bias on income predominantly remaining in the US.

      "Remittance" has been and probably will continue to be a major economic factor. History of remittances date back to the Hawala (8th century). According to the world bank, although remittances will top 1/2 trillion USD, $400B of that is through migrant workers.

      Unsurprisingly, India and China top the list of receivers of remittances ($70B, $60B/year respectively).

    58. Re:It's A Start by Dissenter · · Score: 1

      I see what you did there ;)

      --

      Dissenter
      "There is no knowledge that is not power."

    59. Re:It's A Start by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      If you ask the average 40+ish former UAW worker if they are willing to learn to program for a job, they'd likely slap you. I recall a recent national program, 20-20, 60 Minutes, or some such, doing just that, and the response, is typically that they just don't want a sit down job. While it's a stereotype, it's based in fact, and some old dogs just refuse to learn new tricks. That isn't to say that they shouldn't be given the opportunity.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    60. Re:It's A Start by Dissenter · · Score: 2

      Just for curiosity with a CS degree why were you working retail?

      Ask a millennial.

      Sorry, I couldn't help it.

      --

      Dissenter
      "There is no knowledge that is not power."

    61. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So instead of being functionally skilled you should be better at pedalling [sic] bullshit?

      You're aware of who just got elected POTUS, right? Do a Google search or something, and that should help answer your question whether functional skills or bullshit peddling skills are what matters.

    62. Re:It's A Start by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      As a manager who's done plenty of hiring, I'd say you're pretty much spot on...esp. wrt large companies. It's hard to get someone by HR who doesn't have a four year degree, and if I can, the starting labor grade is typically based upon 2 yrs of exp = 1 yr of college. Even if I personally know that you can walk on water, it would be a battle. As for playing well with others, if you can't, I don't care if you can walk on water, you'll never get an offer. We work in teams, and if you're going to piss off the team, you're going to end up being a pain in my ass, so don't bother.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    63. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boo hoo nerdo loser I DO NOT feel for you. I take a dump on your head and laugh at your misery.

    64. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Of course the employers tend to want someone with 7-10 years of experience doing exactly the same thing that they want to do so there is no learning curve at all."

      Down in Dallas here and when I got started post-college about 10yrs ago, that's what it was like. There's still an obsession with "have you used this tool/done this specific role before" which never made that much sense, because it's not like there's a degree in "report development" or classes at the community college for learning to use a "Product Information Management Tool." We all learn that shit on the job, even the people who have "done it before" learned it that way. But the labor market has changed since then and it's even more distorted and effed up.

      I just landed a job after a 3 month search on Monday. Really fortunate stars-aligning kind of thing (the 20% pay drop probably helped, but I'm grateful, not complaining.) I saw a lot of weird stuff out there. One oddity in particular was a gig I was told that I wasn't a good fit for, because they were looking for someone with 6yrs of experience and I had 9 for a specific skillset. They didn't want someone "set in their ways." As a 34yo I was starting to think that I was "too old for tech." I thought that was just those old wrinkly 40+ dinosaurs?! Just kidding of course.

      I saw lots of "new grads wanted" ads. Lots of "junior" positions with 3-5yrs experience which doesn't even really makes sense. A lot of Frankenstein positions, covering multiple roles that didn't follow any career progression that I've heard of -- again with low years-of-experience requirements. How many people have been a DBA, requirements analyst/report developer, project manager, data architect and modeler, handcode SQL ETL automation developer, with tier 2&3 support experience over the course of 5 years? Like, 3 dudes. Of course I can imagine a guy with 10-12yrs possibly having that much range; that they want to underpay to be a department-in-a-box on trucker meth to handle the workload. WTH? srsly

      It seems like many companies are hiring through contracting firms for all the "standard positions" and the ones they can't or won't outsource are what's left over for the rest of us. But they still want that young, cheap, compliant ideal to "blend in" with the rest of the scab workforce. But they'll take two out of three as long as the first one's cheap. *Especially* any Fortune X type company. I'm totally over working for those outfits. I say let them get by without Americans. Their market share will dissolve like sandcastles in the tide if we all abandon them to grow the smaller outfits. Everything is a tech company now, or so I've heard in many a quarterly company pep rally.

      Man, I could keep ranting and riffing on this all night. But I will say that I'm happy about this stuff with Trump. At least the visa caps didn't double or triple! If he'd never run that would have happened for sure. Now there's no way that's going to happen. And he did take the effort to push this EO out today, despite what surely our fellow citizens think are greater priorities. Now we'll see what happens in the coming months as those departments come back with recommendations on how to make this pig squeal. Hopefully loud enough that Congress passes a decent reform. It's probably a win-win for all of us though (American tech workers.) There should probably be something like the H1-b program, but this thing as it is, along with F1-OPT and the GC carrot-stick have heavily damaged our domestic tech labor force. Something should really be done.

      Unless Zuckerberg et al. want to come out and say that there's a "skills shortage" in America because we're genetically inferior or something due to our mongrel hordes (even our white people are multi-ethnic heritaged!), they better give it up. Last I checked we have the schools the world wants to come to and pretty much built all this high tech shit in the first place. What could be the reason that the labor force suddenly became impotent? Something-something cuckold blah blah. You see where I'm going with this. Just make your own joke.

    65. Re:It's A Start by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      And those things are online? And you can point at them on your CV and in an interview?

      I wasn't necessarily talking about myself. I am old. This is all ancient history. I was asserting that such people exist however and could not find jobs in the early 90s at least. I see myself as one possible example of someone who should have been able to get a job at least at some price but could not because the whole system was just broken. There would be no interview. No CV. When I graduated there was no one hiring fresh graduates at least for the few years that I bothered to search before giving up. A BS + 1-3 years of experience was the absolute minimum requirement. They didn't interview people who didn't have that.

      I did score 136 on a real, professionally administered IQ test when I was 18 and did quite well in school and got good grades at university etc and still could not find a job in any field even remotely related to my own after graduating. Even after literally years of searching. And I loved programming too. Still do. I wasn't one of those people that slashdotters talk about who is not a 'true' programmer. I was. For me it has always seemed like great fun. But no one has ever paid me to do it. I guess most fun things are like that though. It's tough to get paid to do something fun.

      If so, I can name a bunch of companies that would love to hire you.

      Maybe now they would, but it's about 30 years too late for me and would they really hire me without you being involved? I mean if they post ads online for instance do they allow for people with no work experience at all? Fresh graduates with only academic work? Programming is nice in a way because you really can present your work assuming an employer is interested in reading your code, but the problem is not just in Computer Science. It's the overall system that I was disillusioned with. Now I can't believe how naive I was as a teenager thinking that I could get a job just by being good and reasonably intelligent and hard working or even by presenting actual code to a potential employer. Nope. At least not at that time in the parts of the country where I looked. That's just how things were. Even the smallest companies would not hire anyone unless they had previous and probably relevant work experience.

      No, it means that you have to be able to work with other people, because they're looking for someone who makes the team more productive in aggregate.

      Yeah I guess that's a point, but how do they judge that? If you are shy and geeky does that mean you can't work well with others? Maybe to an extent that is true, but intelligence and creativity and coding skills don't makeup for any of that? I was not rude or mean or anything. Just shy and quiet and antisocial and not very likeable. And no I didn't smell, but most people tended not to like me that much. I guess that was more of a theoretical problem for me since I never had the requirements for any job listings. They all required work experience and I didn't have any. It just made the system seem even more impossible and stacked against me though. Anyway I didn't really intend this to be specifically about me. I can't believe I am the only example. It seemed like a pretty well known problem at the time.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    66. Re:It's A Start by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I did have a degree, but if I had no paid work experience whatsoever would it really matter how well I could play with others? I mean would that even come up? My impression is that it would not even be a factor because there is no shortage of candidates who have the relevant work experience. This again goes back to the point about there being no real shortage of skilled candidates in the US. No need to import Indians with a questionable and almost unverifiable educational background. It really is not the case that retraining truck drivers is the only other option.

      Would a shy, geeky, quiet, and antisocial person piss off the team? I've never worked on a programming team. So I have no idea what the people are like. I was just never the kind of person that people found charming or whatever. I was not and am not the kind of person that would win over a job interviewer with my interpersonal skills or charm. I have no idea how I would be as part of a team. Probably not great. Probably now I would almost definitely be hated. Millennials in particular really don't seem to like me and I have no idea why. I like them well enough. Maybe I remind them of their dads or something.

      At least I am from the same culture. Well unless the team is mostly Indian. Actually I think I might get along better with Indians than with Americans. Either way I'd never get the job and that's why I had to choose a career entirely unrelated to my university major. I can't regret the education. I loved university actually. Would love to go back. So much more fun than working. But as a practical means of getting a job...at least for me it was useless. I was so naive to think I could get a job after getting my degree. Such a stupid, silly assumption. I thought anthropology majors etc were naive in terms of expecting a practical career after graduation but I was really just as naive to think I had a better chance: that my computer science major was somehow more practical. It wasn't at all.

      Now with all the competition from India etc I think I might have had a more realistic assessment of my chances at finding work after graduating. Although maybe things are different now and the whole 'can't get experience without a job - can't get a job without experience' doesn't apply as much. Those years of job searching left a lasting impression on me. If I ever had kids you can bet I wouldn't be encouraging them to depend on the idea of finding work relevant to their major after graduating no matter how 'practical' their choice of major or how well the did in school or how high they scored on IQ testing etc. It's shocking to me how different the world seems to so many slashdotters here. Clearly my experience was vastly different from most of you. I guess none of you had any problem at all finding a job right after graduating.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    67. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My personal experience: I've been a professional programmer for 7+ years, after a very "late launch" in life where I basically sucked at everything until I was 30. I had spent my 20's learning web development and working at a horrible little place making websites and product logos for minimum wage. No college education, just the internet and a few mentors to guide me. Now I work for a Big Company working on a platform 50 million people use every single day for rather big bucks. It all started when I lied on my resume back in my 20's :) The important thing is, make sure you can BACK IT UP. If you can't learn to do the things necessary, and quickly, don't act like you can. It's a beautiful thing whenever you remove the lie on your resume without having to edit it.

    68. Re:It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+.

      Provably false. The vast majority of US military personnel that finish their 20 years go into a different line of work, starting a new career, while they're in their 40's.

    69. Re: It's A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just my $.02 again, but your experience level doesn't mean anything to me if I got the vibe you wouldn't fit in. Quirky, geeky, shy, I don't care...if you're easily offended, it's a red flag for me. I have a diverse group, but we're equal opportunity offenders...not maliciously though. When I hear you say that you couldn't get a job with a BSCS degree, I'd be concerned...if you graduated during the recession, I could understand, but there shouldn't be any excuse for not finding one now.

    70. Re:It's A Start by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Hell, I look at code I wrote 3 months ago and wonder what I was thinking.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    71. Re:It's A Start by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      I graduated with my C.S. degree in the summer of 2000. It was still during the dotcom crash. So, I had student loan debt, and the places that I applied at had their choice of "recent graduate with no experience" and "every other programmer in the area with experience who had lost their job".

      Mind you, I'm on the completely other side of the country from Silicon Valley, but there were _not_ a lot of entry-level programmer positions open around here in 2000.

      So, I ended up getting a retail job (thanks to a friend of mine) a few blocks from where I lived. I thought I'd work it for a few months, continue to put out resumes, and I'd find something.

      Except that didn't happen. Every place I sent my resume to either never responded, or they'd "let me know" and then never get back in touch. It didn't help the the university I had graduated from was continuing to graduate C.S. students at a good rate, not warning them at all that "hey, it might be difficult to find a job". (Their job placement assistance service SUCKED at the time.)

      I ended up getting stuck in a rut. It was remarkably easy to 'just get by' on what I made working retail. I didn't have a car, so no car-based expenses, but it also limited where I could go for interviews. The job itself was generally boring as hell, but I worked the graveyard shift, so there were nights where I had no customers, but had to keep the store open anyway.

      Like I said, I got stuck in a rut. It took complaining about retail customers one too many times to a friend of mine before he asked me if I wanted to try to get a job where he worked. I told him "I can't do sales" (I knew where he worked.) and he said, "No, as a programmer."

      And I've been at that company for 4 1/2 years. It's had its ups and downs here, but it's still miles better than working retail, especially during the Christmas season.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    72. Re:It's A Start by ghoul · · Score: 1

      I graduated in 2001. The company which had hired me on campus sent me a regret letter 2 months before I graduated. I spent the last 2 months of my college frantically job searching while finishing up final year project and thesis. Finally found a job outside the country so at the age of 21 I moved to Europe for a programming job. Yes it was scary as I had never lived in a city different from my parents but it was fun(even my college was in the same city). 3 years later came to the US to do my Masters. Shit happens. Don't let it get you stuck in a rut.

      There may be a glut of Americans with degrees but when a company is looking for a people who can get shit done they will look for them all over the world and they will prefer folks who have proved themselves by surviving the H1B screening process. Companies don't have any patriotism. Most of them are multinational. There is a reason companies prefer immigrants for jobs where a risk taking nature is needed. People who can give up their support structure and move across the world will not be scared of learning a new programming library. Just show people that even though you were born here and had everything handed on a platter to you , you are still a risk taker and people will hire you whether you are 20, 40 or 60.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
  4. Come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I haven't got all life. Let's do it already.

  5. Because the salespitch was a lie by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

    If the program really was there to fill a labour pool deficit, it never would have allowed for visas for positions where the wage was below the current median wage (for those employed, not for empty positions waiting to be filled). You'd still get downward pressure on wages as labour supply increased, but it'd be slower.

    If your goal is to outsource to cheaper countries, the existing program works very well... until companies that can decide to move as much of their operations abroad as required to cut costs, until the cost of products domestically rises enough to throw sand in the gears of the economy, etc.

    Free trade isn't just for goods, it's for labour and standard of living. We're watching it all even out but the process is uneven due to social and political differences between nations.

    1. Re:Because the salespitch was a lie by gmack · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the program really was there to fill a labour pool deficit, it never would have allowed for visas for positions where the wage was below the current median wage (for those employed, not for empty positions waiting to be filled). You'd still get downward pressure on wages as labour supply increased, but it'd be slower. If the program was there to fill a labour pool deficit, it would never be allowed to be used in an instance where employees have to train their H1B replacements before being let go.

  6. Even simpler, increase the wages by gatkinso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Raise the minimum salary to $100,000 per year, have it automatically increase by 1.5% per year. Done.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    1. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, put a fee on the company equal to the wage.

    2. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't think this is needed.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    3. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Raise the minimum salary to $100,000 per year, have it automatically increase by 1.5% per year. Done.

      Might work, but it's plausible there are specialist areas that fall under that, but really do have labor shortage. Of-course it's pretty easy to argue that the price of the service they provide just has to go up instead, but that might cause other problems.

      What I've been wondering is if adding a bias to the lottery based on a stated minimum wage, for the duration of the H1B, would work better. Depending on how strong the bias is, it would turn it slightly more into a bidding game instead of meaning everyone puts their tickets in the lottery at the minimum allowed salary (Aka, the 100,000 + increase)

      Additional pressure for this could be applied by reducing the total head count so to squeeze the most useful ones in and keep the rubbish out. It wouldn't really help the mentioned possible lower wage positions, but they wouldn't be blocked completely.

    4. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're drinking Bernie Sanders unicorn tea. Whose going to pay for this free ride for everyone?

      Answer: everyone through tax. hence nullifying the minimum. Try harder.

    5. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Orgasmatron · · Score: 2

      Still too low. Here is what I would do:

      Quarterly auction with an absolute cap on quantity, starting bid of $200,000/year (in total compensation) + 25% fee. Unused slots are lost.

      Full salary to be placed in escrow to be paid over time regardless of anything else that happens to the applicant (quits/fired, dies, doesn't enter the country, whatever). Visa is owned and held by the worker, remains valid until 6 months after last day of employment in-country. Criminal penalties for a company officer for failure to report end of employment. Worker is free to seek other companies willing to buy out the current contract during or after employment. Assuming company pays 25% fee on however much compensation is still in escrow. Company can automatically renew for 1 year at the same salary/fee as the first year. After that, they have to bid on another slot.

      No offer of citizenship (for anyone until at least 2057). No chain. No anchor. When the worker returns to their old country, they take their children with them. If their old country is poor, we'll offer to lend (with very favorable terms) all fees collected over the years to help the worker establish a practice at home, under certain conditions (no gifts, no bribes, must be a for-profit enterprise that promotes stability, commerce and local employment).

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    6. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing: currently, the only fee is for processing the applications after they were selected in the lottery. So, if a consulting firm wants 1,000 H-1B, they apply for 3,000+ (knowing about 30% success) at the cost of about 1,000.

      That is one of the abuses.

    7. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not, but it will further incentivize the company to find or even train an American

    8. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by gatkinso · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If there really is a shortage, paying a premium to fill those gaps at the top will not be a problem.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    9. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Even the most mediocre IT support jobs I ever worked gave out 2% raises to keep up with inflation.

    10. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Pulzar · · Score: 1

      Quarterly auction with an absolute cap on quantity, starting bid of $200,000/year (in total compensation) + 25% fee.

      The problem with this is that you'd essentially limit the H1-Bs to Silicon Valley. The salaries there are so much higher than elsewhere in the country for comparable jobs, that companies located in smaller tech centers would have no chance of winning an auction. And, arguably, they are the ones that need more help.

      I don't understand the motivation for this. If they have passed your stringent test for being needed and skilled, why not let them stay? Why finance the growth of businesses in other countries?

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    11. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Pulzar · · Score: 2

      Bah, html typo dropped the quote:

      No offer of citizenship (for anyone until at least 2057).

      I don't understand the motivation for this. If they have passed your stringent test for being needed and skilled, why not let them stay? Why finance the growth of businesses in other countries?

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    12. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And enforce a maximum number of H1B's as a proportion of a company's workforce.

      e.g. max 1-5% H1B visa holders.

    13. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe his point is to remove the 'we'll bring someone in instead of train'.

      You can bring in an H1-B for a stopgap measure- but you are limited to how long you should have them, so you'd better start planning for hiring the local who's going to replace the H1-B when the H1-Bs job is finished.

      Like say, hiring an underskilled local who will learn from the H1-B to eventually take the H1-B's job (essentially reversing the current trend).

      H1-Bs then move to being VERY EXPENSIVE and LIMITED stopgap measures when no local can be found (making them more likely to only be used when there actually is no one currently qualified).

      However I think that combining both the extremely stringent application process and this 'GTFO' portion are a bit much, one or the other, not both.

    14. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by ghoul · · Score: 1, Troll

      You say "keep the rubbish out" You do realize that the least qualified H1B has more education and skills than 50% of the US population. You just called 50% of your fellow citizens rubbish. Elitist much? And who will do the work once these "rubbish" are pushed out. Not the high school graduates who can barely read at grade 5 level or the art majors who couldn't be bothered to take a simple requirement spec without a 2 hour discussion on how it affects human rights in Botswana?
      If the program is tightened up to only allow top level talent in than the work which needs low level talent (still beyond 50% of the population's capability) will move overseas. This hollowing out of middle level jobs has been going on in USA for a long time because people with middle level capacity expect high level wages and people with economic output worth 2 dollars an hour still expect minimum wage. H1B has been putting a bandage on the problem by preventing some middle level jobs from leaving at the cost of exploiting immigrants (who are willing to be exploited so that their kids get a shot at the American Dream). Note that once a job leaves it never comes back even if the other country becomes rich. Jobs which went to China are not coming back now that Chinese are richer and the wages have risen to a 5 dollar/hr minimum wage. Now the Chinese are installing robots and training their next generation to be robot technicians and using every trick in the book like currency manipulation to hold on to the jobs during the transition. If America wants to keep low level IT jobs till the transition to fully AI driven IT happens H1B is necessary otherwise the transition will happen as US IT->India Based IT->AI based IT with the AI programmers in India.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    15. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because its not true. There isn't a demand for tech workers. The demand is for dirt cheap tech workers. Period. They use fraudulent workers.

      We need to just limit this drastically. Its a scam. It has been for so long. The natural course will take place then, i.e. Out of work Americans can work.

      And btw, a citizen can do the same work as 2-3 of these visa workers in most cases. Now some are very good. But just very few. So companies will need less staff, less managers, and run a bit more efficiently. Lazy management is another root cause to this.

    16. Re: Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. That would gut tata fuckers.

    17. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too low. Much too low. This ignores the economies of where most of these workers are hired to suppress American wages. It needs to be at least $250,000/hr. *Requiring that salary to the employee.* So if a middleman wants to jump in, the total but to the contractor/company is going to be something like $300,000/year. You'll find an abundance of companies are now happy to pay fair market wages to American workers.

    18. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No worries. The jobs will all be outsourced.
      And BTW FU racist!

    19. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, no. That'll work in the short term, but if you want it to last you had best set it to 1.5% + CurrentInflationRate. Otheriwse eventually that 100k isn't going to mean much at all as the currency continues to become a little more worthless each year.

      The entire program is BS anyway. The problem isn't a lack of US workers. There's plenty of skilled workers in the US - many just don't apply to the job that lists off 4 pages of required skills plus 20 years experience for 20k/year. And job interviewers count on that when applying for their temporary foreign slaves.

    20. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      Sucking in the brightest people from every part of the world and then keeping them and their children is the most anti-social immigration policy possible. Part of the reason that Africa is so fucked up right now is that everyone who could have improved things there now lives in the US or the UK.

      They need to go back. They need to lift up their own people, and they can't do that from here.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    21. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      The problem with this is that you'd essentially limit the H1-Bs to Silicon Valley. The salaries there are so much higher than elsewhere in the country for comparable jobs, that companies located in smaller tech centers would have no chance of winning an auction. And, arguably, they are the ones that need more help.

      One thing that I've learned in my days is that in a long running system, the condition must be the actual cost. If the condition is anything else, it will be gamed. If you use "local cost of living" or any other proxy as the condition, the same companies will win - they'll just do it by cheating.

      By the way, this is one of the two reasons why I reject "clever" voting schemes. A vote should be costly - a protest vote for a no-chance candidate should cost that voter their vote for the lesser of two evils. And if the voter wants to pick their safety candidate, it should cost them the opportunity to cast a protest vote at the same time. If the protest vote has no cost, it is also meaningless.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    22. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This... Just make it so the price to have an H1B ensures we really *ARE* stealing the best and brightest workers from other countries.

    23. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why bother.... just abolish it completely if you want to set those as standards. Don't pretend to be supporting something you'd rather just see done away with. You'd do well in political finance circles coming up with ideas like operation chokepoint.

    24. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      If the US isn't going to let them in, they'll just go somewhere else, like Europe. If they were the kind of people who would go out of their way to help their own kind, then you wouldn't need to force them to go back.

      Sending those smart people back won't do any good anyways. Almost all poor country problems are political. South Africa had a good run until the black-on-white racism went overboard. Somalia was also doing fine until it got fucked by Islamists. But Nigeria is growing rapidly because they kicked out the junta and established a stable government. It doesn't take a very smart person to figure out that constant civil war hurts economic development.

    25. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably because there is a large chance that the worker will be brown, and OP does not want brown people (especially quantifiable superior brown people) in his white ethnostate. Thankfully he clearly cannot attain any sort of political power while his discriminatory views are espoused so nonchalantly, right?

    26. Re:Even simpler, increase the wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translation: We will exploit the shit out of you. You will enjoy it and ask for more. You will return to your home country and exploit the shit out of your own people or you will die of starvation, by our terms. We will do what the CIA has been doing for 5 decades, except more subtlely.

  7. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bout dang time.

  8. Systemic problems? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was shocked by this. I can't possibly imagine Trump uttering "systemic problems". I would like... kinda... Uh, no.

    But then I re-read and realized the words were from the "administration official". Phew.

  9. B-b-b-b-but he's a RETHUGLICAN!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Must comport with standard progtard kneejerk reactions and reject this!

    1. Re:B-b-b-b-but he's a RETHUGLICAN!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must comport with standard progtard kneejerk reactions and reject this!

      That's pretty rich, considering the way the Republicans acted towards the Democrats for the past 8 years. Talk about knee jerk rejection, they wouldn't even support their own health care plan!

  10. What's wrong with these people?! by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 0

    "Right now H-1B visas are awarded by random lottery and many of you will be surprised to know that about 80% of H-1B workers are paid less than the median wage in their fields. Only 5% to 6%, depending on the year, of H-1B workers command the highest wage tier recognized by the Department of Labor..."

    This is really upsetting as it does not support the idea that huge corporations are getting filthy rich by helping foreigners are stealing jobs. No one wants to hear this. H-1B is making Americans homeless. they must be hiredat all costs. Go away!

    I'm sure that together we can find a simplistic, singular explanation to why foreginers are job thieves, theives, terrorists, rapists or just incompatible with US life (which are enabled by greedy US companies that don't wanna pay honest Americans, honest pay or in fact pay US tax because they're smart). #MAGA

    Every time it's the same thing in ever country...foreginers steal jobs, bring crime, are uneducated, dirty, lazy, dishonest, have pagan/satanic (or worse, atheist) beliefs...and employers are always trying to brig them in to make the locals poorer and cheat them out of fair wages either directly or by dilluting the market, oversupplying etc etc...

    Now...will this be trump's very first good policy and will it actually improve the H-1B programme overall? Will we finally start to have #toomuchwinning

    --
    A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    1. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Abuse of the H1-B program is not primarily done by large corporations. Instead there are specialized "body shops" doing it. These body shops pretty much only employ H1-B Indian software/testing people and then rent them out to business in the US as temporary staff. These body shop companies make huge profits for the owners since they bring in the H1-B people at very low wages and then rent them out at 90% of a normal salary. The savings to the large corporation is not much since most of the profits accrue to the body shops. One of these shop owners lives near me in a $20M house and has made over $100M profit from renting out H1-Bs. These body shops are where the bulk of the abuse occurs and they need to be outlawed.

    2. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To understand how this scam works... H1-B Indian will have BS/MS degrees (from India) and they are willing to work for $35,000. So the body shop takes out tiny ads in local newspapers offering to hire programmers/testers with a BS/MS for $35,000. Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr. These ads generate the "proof" needed that these jobs can't be filled by Americans.

      The body shop then brings in 500 H1-B people and pays them $35,000/yr. According to the law this is allowed, there are no US citizen willing to take these jobs at $35,000/yr. But then the owner of this body shop turns right around and places these people as temp workers for $80,000/yr. He undercuts the US temp workers who would get $90,000/yr.

      This is a great business $80,000 - $35,000 = $45,000 profit per H1-B visa per year. This is how you make $100M from owning a body shop over the course of a few years.

    3. Re: What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was a teen, we had a small scale beverage bottling plant. We used to sell soda. Then Pepsi and Cococola came to our country and simply crushed us with their massive marketing might. I did not have anything more to do and so studied, got a degree and came to your country. You are seeing the results of global trade which was pushed by USA into the throat of various countries.
      Yes, I dont like the whole situation, but I dont paint the whole American population in the same color of a white trash and war mongerers and drug addicts. If Indian origin Ameeicans are all like you describe, then all Americans are trailer trashs with hill billy attitude and drug problems!

    4. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      minorities LOVE to take advantage or minorities.

    5. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by rnideffer · · Score: 0

      A degree from India is absolutely meaningless. They have a "university" practically on every street corner because Coder has become their #1 export. Zero accreditation for almost all of them, and from my 16 years of experience in the industry the "programmers" they churn out are worse than someone after a 3 week boot camp out here.

    6. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my ignorance = what is a body shop? I'm thinking car repair. Do you mean it's a business "moving around bodies & personnel"?

    7. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr.

      Looks like there's America's problem, right there. Why are we so expensive? Why are foreign programmers so much better than us, that they're able to work cheap while still living in America with all the same expenses?

      What we ought to do, is abolish all the special rules and requirements for the visas, and just make it even easier to hire workers. Stop using government to prevent a free market, so that the market can force programmers either accept $35k/yr or else find a job where they're more competitive. Remove all the weird rules and you can squeeze out the need for the body shops' legal expertise; i.e. remove the parasitic middlemen and save $45k/yr. The programmers ought to be applying directly to the employer.

    8. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1% of every population is a psychopath. Our society's racism just makes minorities the most vulnerable group to pick on.

    9. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: people LOVE taking advantage of other people.

    10. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr.

      Looks like there's America's problem, right there. Why are we so expensive? Why are foreign programmers so much better than us, that they're able to work cheap while still living in America with all the same expenses?

      What we ought to do, is abolish all the special rules and requirements for the visas, and just make it even easier to hire workers. Stop using government to prevent a free market, so that the market can force programmers either accept $35k/yr or else find a job where they're more competitive. Remove all the weird rules and you can squeeze out the need for the body shops' legal expertise; i.e. remove the parasitic middlemen and save $45k/yr. The programmers ought to be applying directly to the employer.

      Duh? The US programmer won't take $35,000/yr because they can easily get twice that or more.

      The Indian is willing to take $35,000 since they are indentured servants. If they complain in any way they are on the next plane back to India where they are going to earn $15,000. They do this because it pays more than working in India, they get US experience on their resume, and they improve their English. Many of these people live ten to an apartment to reduce expenses.

    11. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      What we ought to do, is abolish all the special rules and requirements for the visas, and just make it even easier to hire workers.

      You do understand that the basic welfare benefits provided by the US exceed the average wage earned by 80% of the world's population? So if there was unrestricted immigration to the US a few billion people would migrate to the US.

    12. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr.

      Well it depends a lot on how you define "qualified". I'm guessing that not being willing to work for that little is part of your definition. So it's a slam dunk. Considering the fact that college graduates with no work experience are willing to work for free (interns) I would be surprised if there were no highly intelligent graduates willing to work for even less than that. Maybe not forever, but for a while. Of course Indians living in India will work for a hell of a lot less than $35,000/year.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    13. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      In the society and culture where I live at the moment it's more like 99% sociopaths. I kid you not. That 1% figure of yours may be right for the US though. In other places it seems to vary a great deal even going quite a bit lower as well. There is more intraspecies diversity out there than you probably realize.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    14. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1


      GREAT THEORY. Now...if these (insert country of origin) people can code for much less money and make things that work for that price then the market has decided how much something costs.

      If they are unqualified, incapable etc then the product/service will fail because the price point is too low for the skill/resource required.

      After all, if all services can be had for less by simply employing non-US staff then companies will move overseas.

      It is certainly not some cut and dry scam like you present it.

      --
      A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    15. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1


      No! instead, let's create a protectionist agenda to artificially keep salaries for US workers high because everyone is paying too much for rent in city centers.../facepalm

      --
      A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    16. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1


      Ah, I knew we could get a singular explantion. Why are US tech workers getting screw over? BECAUSE BODY SHOPS.

      Thanks.

      --
      A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    17. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1


      It's almost as if the system is designed to collapse isnt it? *checks watch*

      --
      A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    18. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1


      The question is of course not how whining, sorry for themselves tech workers see it but rather how US employers see it.

      If you can lower your labour costs wouldnt you? where is the financial benefit to paying more for a US tech worker? -comapnies do not care where the worker is from, only about the cost of the output that worker has. If the output is acceptable then they'll pay for it as little as they can get away with.

      Forcing employers to hire US workers will just mean that only those that absolutely must put up with it, will. The rest will outsource, automate or move etc.

      --
      A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
    19. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Seems more like 27% psychopaths to me, Trump voters certainly fit the bill.

    20. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      I have never been to India but I have read about both the education system there being very bad in general and that the India Institute of Technology is pretty damn good. And maybe a few other prestigious schools with extremely low acceptance rates. So the real answer is probably 'it depends'.

      However I would guess that at least some of those so called degrees really are not comparable to degrees from US or UK universities. It's hard to know for sure unless you go sit in on some of the classes or at least look at the curriculum to see what they are really studying. Are US corporations who treat US and Indian degrees as equivalent actually checking this sort of thing?

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    21. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Duh? The US programmer won't take $35,000/yr because they can easily get twice that or more."

      Depends upon where you live. At some places around here (Midwest), $35-40k is all you'll be offered!

    22. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by ghoul · · Score: 1

      The solution is to only provide welfare to US born not to immigrants. The immigrants' taxes will pay for the US Born's welfare.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    23. Re: What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Body shop is a lie. Google worker visa. Once you look at the government stats you will cry. 90% tech worker visa category. 80% from Indian. 90% distribution in Seattle, sf, ny, Miami. It lists how many by each company. It is a traitor s game. Sellling out your own country. That's the definition of being a traitor.

    24. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      So the body shop takes out tiny ads in local newspapers offering to hire programmers/testers with a BS/MS for $35,000

      It's far easier than that.

      You troll through job search sites like Monster, Dice, Glassdoor, etc. You get a list of people who are overqualified for the position and do not live in the city where the position is located. You then email them, offering that $35k/year with no relocation. They will turn down your terrible offer, and you now have proof you can't fill the position for less cost than a newspaper ad.

    25. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1% of every population is a psychopath. Our society's racism just makes minorities the most vulnerable group to pick on.

      Yep, it's that inherent American racism that makes Asian immigrants more successful than black native Americans.

    26. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by ohnocitizen · · Score: 1

      I wonder if companies like clevertech are included in this? I talked to them about a job once and they were offering to pay FAR less than everyone else. Their ads are all over sites like weworkremotely.com.

    27. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      The welfare system in most of europe is even better, and the UK has about the most generous in europe... It results in large numbers of people trying to get in, often through illegal means.

      To someone scraping by in a third world country it sounds like a lot of money and luxury life, but the reality is that the cost of living is also much higher so things balance out somewhat.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    28. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      The minimum allowed H1B wage is $56k. JFYI.

    29. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately your math is way off! No one on H1 can work for $35K. All companies have to fill a LCA which determines the minimum wage in an area. It is more like $65K for an H1b. So, that has to be the minimum salary that has to be paid to the candidate.

    30. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      my ignorance = what is a body shop? I'm thinking car repair. Do you mean it's a business "moving around bodies & personnel"?

      A body shop in this case means that the company hires people at a certain qualification, fabricated their resume to be qualified at much higher position, and then sell them to work matched with their fabricated resume. For example, the company hires someone who is a freshly graduated. Then fabricate the person's resume to have 3~5 years experience. Now the person could be hired at that level (e.g. $75k~80k a year), but the company is paying the person for fresh graduate payment ($45k~$50 a year).

    31. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      To understand how this scam works... H1-B Indian will have BS/MS degrees (from India) and they are willing to work for $35,000. So the body shop takes out tiny ads in local newspapers offering to hire programmers/testers with a BS/MS for $35,000. Of course no qualified US computer person is going to take work at $35,000/yr. These ads generate the "proof" needed that these jobs can't be filled by Americans.

      The body shop then brings in 500 H1-B people and pays them $35,000/yr. According to the law this is allowed, there are no US citizen willing to take these jobs at $35,000/yr. But then the owner of this body shop turns right around and places these people as temp workers for $80,000/yr. He undercuts the US temp workers who would get $90,000/yr.

      This is a great business $80,000 - $35,000 = $45,000 profit per H1-B visa per year. This is how you make $100M from owning a body shop over the course of a few years.

      To go into a bit more detail of your example, there are more work to do on the body shop part. The body shops call themselves as "recruiting" or "consulting" companies.

      • 1. The fresh graduated can be from India or the U.S. However, those body shops that have better connection in India would prefer those from India because they tend to be cheaper.
      • 2. Due to the process of getting LCA, employers must post the job offer at their work site. This meant, there is no posting because body shop does NOT have a work site but a training site (explained below).
      • 3. Due to H1B prevailing wage (each position has its own fixed wage), the body shop will pick the cheapest prevailing wage position but still relate to IT (e.g. Web Designer, etc.) in their application.
      • 4. Those who are candidates to work for body shop will have their resume fabricated. The resume usually starts from junior to manager depending on how a candidate appears (and/or education). There will be multiple projects in the resume, and each would length from 6 months to 2 years.
      • 5. The candidates will be trained to be familiar with their new resume. This training includes all questions about the job experience in the resume, as if they have worked in those projects. If there is any programming involved with the projects, the candidates will be trained in basic programming of the related technology. Often times, train with someone who works with the technology. No need real programming.
      • 6. After the body shop feels confident about the candidates (a couple weeks afterward), they will start putting these candidates in their supply pool. Let them get interviewed by companies. They don't expect the candidates to get a job at the first time.
      • 7. Whenever a candidate fails an interview, they will help the candidate to analyze why the candidate fails. Then try to improve strategies for future interview. It could be a learning experience for the body shop as well.
      • 8. If a candidate keeps failing an interview, the body shop would either terminate the person or retouch the candidate's resume to be something a bit different.
      • 9. If the candidate lands a job, they will earn big profit.

      The reason is that the body shop will apply for H1B with much lower salary (prevailing wage), but at the same time gets paid for higher experience job. Everything (book keeping) is internal. Anyone who can't hold on the job, the body shop will swap the person out with a different one they have got in the pool. Then the body shop may terminate or move the person to somewhere else.

      This abuse has been done for over 10 years, but it was very small at the time. However, it became very popular, especially Indian companies, about 10 years ago. Remember when the H1B application went through the roof (140k+ applications) within the first 2 days of opening?

    32. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It's possible to get a good education at IIT. It's also possible to skate by, learn nothing and graduate.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    33. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even IIT has one year long "taught masters" programs. Is one year of classes and no thesis really equivalent to two years of classes and a thesis?

      No, of course not. That is why Indian universities do not get equivalency in the North American accreditation system. That is why many students transferring over from India for their doctorate have to take graduate classes for two years before acceptance.

      HR probably does not know of the discrepancy, but universities do.

    34. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously man. I am an Indian and my rule of thumb is to not work for another Indian.
      Most of these 'workers' are from rural parts of India or second tier cities. They are mild mannered and docile. They are abused and exploited by the sophisticated Indians 'entrepreneurs' thanks to H1B and then non compete clauses. The lazy executives in American corporation seem to be happy to deal with one slave owner than doing any real management.

    35. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have never been to India but I have read about both the education system there being very bad in general and that the India Institute of Technology is pretty damn good. And maybe a few other prestigious schools with extremely low acceptance rates. So the real answer is probably 'it depends'.

      However I would guess that at least some of those so called degrees really are not comparable to degrees from US or UK universities. It's hard to know for sure unless you go sit in on some of the classes or at least look at the curriculum to see what they are really studying. Are US corporations who treat US and Indian degrees as equivalent actually checking this sort of thing?

      For every IT person that graduates from IIT there are 1000 with fake diplomas. There are >1000 institutes that issue diplomas for IT in India and hardly 10 of them meet any decent education standard.

    36. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The large corporations are hiring these workers from the body shops. The contracting firms can't make any money without a contract. I agree that they should be stopped somehow, but if the large corporations are still hiring the body shops when they are not even really saving that much money, then that's really disgusting.

      If your argument is correct, then the large corporations are even worse than the body shops in my opinion. They are directly enabling the abuse in a cowardly way to deny responsibility, and for paltry savings stabbing American workers right in the face. That's some Judas-level shit.

    37. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      It sounds like the companies themselves are the ones doing the whining at the moment,but yes I would expect them to do whatever they can to lower their labor costs. The point of this is not to stop companies from hiring labor from abroad. At least I hope it isn't. That would be stupid. Whether or not this actually increases the number of Americans who can get jobs working for US companies remains to be seen, but it's not impossible and the H1B program is just stupid. It should probably be shut down completely.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    38. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You and all your cousins go, qualify for benes, than all but one goes home and collect remittances. When the remaining cousin gets homesick, you rotate. Duh.

  11. So actually enforce the law? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I'm not mistaken, the law as written requires that H-1Bs be paid more than Americans. So what he's saying then is that there's nothing wrong with the law, it's just not being enforced? How about we actually enforce the law rather than change it, if that's the case, because the law can say whatever it wants and it won't matter a damn if you don't bother to enforce it.

    1. Re:So actually enforce the law? by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Haven't you noticed hundreds of tiny ads in the classified sections of local newspapers asking for programmers or testers and they include salary information? But when you contact them you never hear anything back? Those ads are generating the "proof" needed for the government that the position can't be filled by American workers.

    2. Re:So actually enforce the law? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      How about we actually enforce the law rather than change it

      Because it's difficult to enforce. How much does a 'software engineer' earn? The same job title applies to someone doing security and timing sensitive code for a microcontroller with 16KB of RAM and someone tweaking some PHP on a low-volume web site. The law requires that you pay the average wage for the profession, but if you want to hire people for the former occupation you're able to point to the large volume of people doing the latter to justify the salary. And the only thing that you have to do to justify hiring an H1B is advertise the job and be unable to find an American willing to do it (which is easy if you offer a sufficiently low salary).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Pulzar · · Score: 1

      Haven't you noticed hundreds of tiny ads in the classified sections of local newspapers asking for programmers or testers and they include salary information?

      Those are needed for job-based green card applications, not for H1-Bs.

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    4. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like many Americans, I haven't read the Classifieds section of a local newspaper in 10-15 years.

      I did once receive a random resume in the mail. Turns out, the immigration lawyer for one of our H-1Bs had posted the job application in the local newspaper. (Just the job title and company name.) A potential applicant had read the ad, looked up the company, found my name as IT Director on LinkedIn, and mailed in his resume. He was the only guy to do it. I wanted to hire him just for that attitude.

    5. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like you see this executive order as a new law, the same way that we consider new legislation new law, and are possibly complaining that we should simply enforce existing law instead of making new law.
      If my interpretation is true, this is somewhat ironic. I will try to explain why, but be warned that there are a few twists and turns in the narrative:
      1. Separation of Powers means that A) Congress makes new laws, B) the courts (Supreme Court on down) interpret them, and C) the Executive Branch (President, Cabinet, etc.) enforces them. So it's not really in the President's job description to make new laws, only to enforce them (to make the Government do what the laws say).
      2. Over the years, presidents have used Executive orders to do this, but at some point, they started including what many would interpret as new law into them as well.
      3. Although the current president has also included what some consider to be new law in his executive orders, he has received just or more press for *undoing* the previous president's executive orders.
      4. The nature of THIS executive order (what I have seen of it) actually does seem to go all the way back to the original use of executive orders, which is the President instructing people who work under him (People who work for departments underneath his Cabinet members, not congress, and possibly not even judges), how he expects them to enforce the existing law. In other words, unless I am reading things which mis-characterize this Executive Order, it is doing exactly what you are asking for: enforcing existing law instead of making new law.

    6. Re:So actually enforce the law? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain how the current scam works? I hear about these companies that only hire H1-B and then let other companies outsource work to them.

      According to Wikipedia there are way more applications than visas allocated by lottery. So if these companies are getting dodgy visas, they are depriving other companies of them. Companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple and Intel. Companies with deep, deep pockets and an army of on-retainer lawyers. So how do the scam companies avoid getting sued into oblivion?

      Clearly those companies I mentioned above aren't going to want to use the scam services for anything interesting, for fear of trade secrets and research leaking. The scammers seem to target mostly low level IT anyway, not skilled developers or researchers.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about we actually enforce the law rather than change it, i

      How about we just repeal it?
      Listen, comrades, in capitalist utopia with mythical "free market" messing with labor supply is bad.

    8. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      This article does a pretty good job of summarizing:
      https://www.nytimes.com/intera...

      In short, you have some companies that are using the visas as intended, but a huge share of those visas are going to outsourcing companies - Infosys, Wipro, Tata Consulting, just to name a few. Those companies hire low level IT tech people as contract service support, and then they market their services (Staffed by said H-1B workers) out to other companies. So a company like SoCal Edison or Disney (to name a few from the news) will decide to eliminate their IT department and contract out those tasks to a second company. In comes Tata Consulting/Infosys/etc, and voila, the jobs that were previously being done by US workers are now being handled by H-1Bs, because the actual position wasn't filled, it was eliminated and a new company was hired to handle the roles, acting as a middleman.

    9. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Software · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A good example of H-1B abuse is when Disney make their employees train their foreign replacements. It's blatantly obvious that the outsourcing company committed fraud on the H-1B application. There's no way to claim that US-based workers cannot be found for a job that those workers are currently performing. The Disney workers sued and lost.

      Google, Microsoft, et al don't have standing to sue the outsourcing companies for visa abuse.

      It's not just low-level IT - as the links above show, it's entire departments. Even it was targeting low-level IT only, that makes it harder for new college graduates to find jobs - everybody has to start somewhere.

    10. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      There are actually are cases where it's definitely beneficial to the US to bring in highly skilled people from overseas. These instances tend to be quiet and non-controversial, but are dwarfed by the cases of abuse. Worse, in many cases that abuse prevents the use of the visa for the intended purpose, as highlighted in the article I linked above: https://www.nytimes.com/intera...

      For whatever reason, too, the big tech companies (Apple, Google, Microsoft etc) have responded by lobbying to increase the cap, rather than to get the abuses punished. Maybe they think that it's easier to do that, or maybe they're worried that a focus on abuse will lead to the baby being thrown out with the bathwater. Maybe they like having the option to use those cheaper services, themselves, or feel that keeping lower-level salaries down isn't a bad thing. Who knows.

    11. Re:So actually enforce the law? by jader3rd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So what he's saying then is that there's nothing wrong with the law, it's just not being enforced?

      It's not just that. This EO is saying that someone has 220 days to create a report, for Trump to review about how the law is not being enforced. That's all. The reason for all of this bluster is to make his trust-and-don't-verify support base think that he's actually doing something.

    12. Re:So actually enforce the law? by ghoul · · Score: 1

      Its not so simple. Not every software engineer gets paid the same. A graduate out of college may get 60 K and a guy with 10 years experience will get 120K. So the govt recognizes this and has bands Band A 60-80K, Band B 70-90K, Band C 80-100K, Band D 90-110 K, Band E 100-120K.

      So now a company actually needs a Band D kind of guy so it puts up an ad with all the qualifications needed however it offers only a Band C salary. Noone bites. They now file an H1B with the Band C LCA get a guy from (say Chile because there has been too much Indian hating onthis board) and gets his H1B approved. Now the company has a Band D guy working at a Band C salary. He is not underskilled. In fact he is overskilled for the salary.

      What all the anti H1B shills do not realize is that companies would not do H1Bs to get underskilled folks. Where is the percentage in that? They can get underskilled Americans without the hassles or visa costs. They do H1Bs to get overskilled folks at medium skilled salaries.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    13. Re:So actually enforce the law? by ghoul · · Score: 1

      All of these large companies Apple, Google and Microsoft also have low level IT work and that is outsourced to contracting companies like Infosys, TCS etc so they have a frenemy attitude towards the large outsourcers. yes they do get hurt in the lottery when they cant get an H1 for a US PhD who has been working at Microsoft Research on the latest AI tools during his OPT, but they dont go after the OT outsourcers for gaming the lottery as they benefit from it by being able to outsource their non core IT work. The large outsourcers file 4-5 times more applications than they actually need. Basically they file one for every position where they are competing to get the work. In the lottery if they get 1 out of 5 applications they have enough to fill all the positions they are going to actually win.

      Moving to a skills /salary based allocation would solve the problem for Zuckerberg and Friends. They would still get first bite at the H1s for their critical hires and the rest could be used by outsourcers who can use it to place cheap folks for the non core IT work done at Apple Google and Facebook.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    14. Re: So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Dead wrong. You have no idea. Its why you put fictious stories.

    15. Re:So actually enforce the law? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The trick to underpaying is properly defining the baseline salary.

      Let's say you are really looking for someone with about 10 years experience.

      So you attempt to hire someone with 3 years of experience. Poorly. You do things like contact people with 20 years experience, and offer them the salary of someone with 3 years experience. In a city they do not live in. With zero relocation.

      When that search inevitably fails, you now go hire an H1B worker for a job with 3 years of experience, with the salary to match 3 years experience.

      But then a miracle occurs and you happen to get an H1B worker with 10 years experience! Yet you only have to pay them the average salary for 3 years experience, because that's what the H1B visa application said you were looking for.

      You are paying them "average" US pay, you're just lying about the position's requirements. If you were truthful about the position's requirements, you'd have to pay much more.

    16. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't hire Americans than paying H1B $1 is already more than paying an American.

    17. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I'm not mistaken, the law as written requires that H-1Bs be paid more than Americans. So what he's saying then is that there's nothing wrong with the law, it's just not being enforced? How about we actually enforce the law rather than change it, if that's the case, because the law can say whatever it wants and it won't matter a damn if you don't bother to enforce it.

      The problem is that the concept of "the same job" is not rigorously defined. So companies can invent arbitrary "jobs" at arbitrary base salaries to fulfill the requirements.

    18. Re:So actually enforce the law? by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      Haven't you noticed hundreds of tiny ads in the classified sections of local newspapers asking for programmers or testers and they include salary information? But when you contact them you never hear anything back? Those ads are generating the "proof" needed for the government that the position can't be filled by American workers.

      H1B application job does NOT NEED to be posted in any newspaper. The job posting is only at the work site of the employers (and unionize negotiators will receive it too if it is a union job).

    19. Re:So actually enforce the law? by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      How about we actually enforce the law rather than change it

      Because it's difficult to enforce. How much does a 'software engineer' earn? The same job title applies to someone doing security and timing sensitive code for a microcontroller with 16KB of RAM and someone tweaking some PHP on a low-volume web site. The law requires that you pay the average wage for the profession, but if you want to hire people for the former occupation you're able to point to the large volume of people doing the latter to justify the salary. And the only thing that you have to do to justify hiring an H1B is advertise the job and be unable to find an American willing to do it (which is easy if you offer a sufficiently low salary).

      You should do some research on H1B application process, then you would have a better idea of how it works. What you are saying here is a typical misconception of H1B process. There is a prevailing wage which should be around or above median wage of Americans, and it is separated by job type and location (e.g. prevailing wage for Software developer in Albany, NY). There is no need for job posting in any media for H1B in order to get LCA but rather post it at the work site (employer place). The job description must be clarified before selecting a job position. And so on... However, the abuse which has been going on works around the H1B process...

    20. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Those [tiny job ads] are needed for job-based green card applications, not for H1-Bs.

      They used to be needed for H1-Bs also. Then the requirement was dropped.

      The classified ad section of the Saturday issue of the San Jose Mercury News shrank from a small telephone books to a few pages. (And the paper and postage expenses of Silicon Valley technical people on unemployment dropped in proportion.)

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    21. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ready to feel a little bit queasy? Grab some pepto.

      If a company only hires H1-b "exempt" employees through the program, then they do not have to comply with all that pesky "try to find an American first" stuff. But that's only companies that are "H1-b dependent" or have been found to be "willful violators" of H1-b rules in the past. Any other company doesn't have to at all. Let me just say that in all caps: COMPANIES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TRY TO FILL A POSITION WITH AN AMERICAN BEFORE FILLING IT WITH AN H1B

      What makes an H1-b "exempt"? Well, they either have a master's degree from where-the-hell-ever, or they are paid at least $60k.
      https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62Q.pdf

      So basically, whole myth about trying to hire an American first is no reality today. It only applies in a punitive manner to H1-b dependent companies and companies who have been caught trying to commit some kind of fraud with H1-b. BUT these companies don't have to suffer these consequences, if they shell out at least $60K OR the employee has a master's degree in the field they're being hired with.

      This one's a little easier to read, though no less nauseating: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/elg/h1b.htm

    22. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, they don't have to advertise the job or try to find an American to fill it first.

      The only time they have to "try to find an American" is if the company is H1-b dependent, or currently has willful violator status of H1-b rules. Even then, they can skirt that requirement one of two ways: hire someone with a master's degree or higher in that field, or pay them at least $60K.

      I really don't understand why this myth persists so strongly. Maybe because everyone thinks that it just couldn't be right that a company doesn't have to try to hire an American, but it's true. Google that up, or ask any immigration attorney. There's so much FUD out there. It should be a tell that this program is rotten to the core.

    23. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >It's not just low-level IT

      You're right and it's actually worse now since the abuse is performed by tech companies for many positions, not just the ones strictly IT.

      For example:
      http://h1bdata.info/index.php?job=Business+Analyst

      For the uninitiated, a Business Analyst is basically someone that puts numbers in Excel and creates reports. Do you really need an H1B for that?

    24. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've noticed the help wanted ads require senior level experience. Not just a few, all of them have that requirement. Why would college grads even bother to apply for those jobs? and where are the entry level jobs?

  12. Queue the why this is bad posts in 3,2,1... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a good start. Anyone in IT knows that most of the H1-B workers are half-assed at best. They aren't underpaid, if anything most are over paid. You might have 10% of H1-B workers that are great, but the rest.....awful.

    1. Re:Queue the why this is bad posts in 3,2,1... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet they're still probably better than your average American. There seems to be an abundance of college grads and useless developers who refuse to keep up-skilled yet feel they deserve massive paychecks just for being American and knowing what a .exe file does. H1B visas might be the one thing stopping companies just moving abroad to somewhere with the skilled workers they need.

    2. Re:Queue the why this is bad posts in 3,2,1... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're off by a factor of at least 10.
      Less than 1% of H1-B workers can count to 10 without using their toes as their fingers are perma-stuck-up-their-noses-pickin-fungus-boogers-for-snack-time.

    3. Re:Queue the why this is bad posts in 3,2,1... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0

      There seems to be an abundance of college grads and useless developers who refuse to keep up-skilled yet feel they deserve massive paychecks just for being American and knowing what a .exe file does.

      Most Americans stop learning after leaving school because think learning is only required for school. They don't become lifelong learners. I had two friends who went from computer engineers to drug store clerks after the dot com bust because they refused to learn outside of the classroom.

  13. Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL

    That will fix the issue.

    1. Re:Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Indeed it will. The fix is truly simple.

      The problem is that it is a real fix, with no way to game it, which is why such would be fought tooth and nail.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    2. Re:Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      Talked to a guy who works with plenty of H1Bs and he said he didn't know anyone making under 125k. So, maybe there are a couple of big players really undercutting the H1B process, or we are just hearing about the abusive cases.
      However if they have official H1B stats claiming 80% makes under the median for their skill/trade, that's an issue. Would want to know where these stats come from though.

    3. Re:Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      is it the subcontracted con game where they play this shell game where on paper they make 100K but there real pay is like 50K with staffing firm kicking back a big part of the pay back to the work site.

    4. Re:Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody is paying attention to the greed for slavery game.

    5. Re:Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Talked to a guy who works with plenty of H1Bs and he said he didn't know anyone making under 125k.

      I'll happily replace an H1-B doing tech support for only 110k.

      What a steal.

      Any takers?

    6. Re:Make the H1B minwage $100K + COL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like Joe mentions, there are all kinds of funny business.

      Here's another. Say you work for a big fancy Fortune 500 company. They have some small percentage of H1-bs around sponsored directly by the company. They are generally paid at least in-line with the other workers, say $125K. Cause they're good American companies that bleed red, white, and blue. Not like those nasty *foreign* companies stealing American jobs Mr. 60 Minutes reporter guy.

      But down in the morlockian bowels of the company, crammed ass-to-elbow in rank conference rooms are hundreds of contractors from the H1-b dependent firms, big and small. You see, an H1-b worker by regulation, needs to be paid sort of the same amount as the other workers in that company, and also needs to have about the same working conditions. But technically, there are two different standards at work in the same building. The "cheap" H1-bs don't work for the Fortune 500, they work for the outsourcing firm.

      I do feel some shame that we as a workforce (American tech workers) have allowed this second-class shit to go on. The reality is, if we'd somehow been able to stick up for all these H1-b workers by demanding they get similar treatment and pay, contractor or not, then the problem wouldn't have gotten so bad. Oh hell, who am I kidding. The big corporations really are evil and would just have had the H1-b law modified again around that (check out the changes over the years some time.) It's really going to have to be very illegal and financially painful if they're going to stop. Maybe something with some whimsy, like lopping off fingers, one knuckle for each violation, working around the board of directors table. Then they'd all look like the Yakuza! How fun would that be.

  14. Biased article.. by slashkitty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can tell the article and website are biased by the first phrase. "In a bid to court working class voters..." No, it's not a bid for voters. It's fulfilling a campaign promise. It's helping the American worker. As a programmer, (and mighty successful at that) I've been denied jobs at many companies who hire H1Bs over citizens like me. It must change.

    --
    -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    1. Re:Biased article.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As he said, in a different context of celebrities demonstrating and trolling him about his tax returns, the election is over. Aside from special elections to fill in the vacancies caused by his appointment of congressmen to his cabinet. On his part, he has been busy fulfilling campaign promises wherever it required action by him - be it signing executive orders on regs and the like, undoing President Obama's executive orders, et al. Where he has failed is where Congressional activity was needed, and there, Paul Ryan has demonstrated himself to be a really mediocre speaker. Not being able to come out with a plan despite having both houses and the White House on his side.

      The travel ban came apart due to activist judges sabotaging him. What I wonder now is whether there will be activist judges who block him on this one, given that there are enough America haters in our judiciary appointed by Obama, Bush(es) and Clinton. If there is, there will be little Congressional backup for him on this one

    2. Re:Biased article.. by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      I can tell the article and website are biased by the first phrase.
      "In a bid to court working class voters..."
      No, it's not a bid for voters. It's fulfilling a campaign promise.

      Right, which is supposed to be a good thing. And to further the point, Trump won because of working class voters. it's the coastal elites and their stooge (Hillary) who would have expanded the H-1B program to bring in more tech workers at lower wages.

    3. Re:Biased article.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell the article and website are biased by the first phrase.
      "In a bid to court working class voters..."
      No, it's not a bid for voters. It's fulfilling a campaign promise. It's helping the American worker.
      As a programmer, (and mighty successful at that) I've been denied jobs at many companies who
      hire H1Bs over citizens like me. It must change.

      Out of curiosity, what, in your opinion, is the difference between fulfilling a campaign promise and paying lip service to your base?

    4. Re:Biased article.. by computational+super · · Score: 1

      I can tell the article and website are biased

      A lot of powerful people stand to lose a lot if he keeps his campaign promises, especially this one, so I'm not surprised there's so much negativity every time he blows his nose - the beauty is, he's one of the very few people in the world who can actually pull this off.

      I've been denied jobs at many companies who hire H1Bs over citizens

      I've never had any insight into why I was rejected from particular jobs, but I can say that I've had some very inexplicable rejections that left me scratching my head wondering why on earth I didn't get the job. Assuming that if somebody took the time to bring me onsite to interview in person means that they really truly honestly are trying to fill an open position, then the only reason they would reject me is if either they found somebody who was a better fit for the job or if they found somebody willing to work a lot cheaper. So, considering that I've been rejected from/not hired for > 50% of the jobs I've applied to suggests that there are a LOT of people out there far more qualified than me. Of course, "better" is subjective, but on paper, at least, I'm a pretty strong candidate (master's degree, 25+ years experience). At least when I'm on the hiring side, I don't see too terribly many resumes with significantly better qualifications. But as we know from Slashdot comments, paper qualifications don't make great programmers, only great programming does that. So maybe I'm on the bottom half of the programmer greatness scale, as my job-seeking history would suggest. Yet, whenever I do manage to land a job, I don't find myself surrounded by people who inspire awe and admiration in my heart - in fact, I find myself surrounded by people who immediately start asking for my help with almost everything.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    5. Re:Biased article.. by Ironwolf · · Score: 1

      Another indicator of bias is calling it the "Buy American Hire American" OFFENSIVE. For any other President in my lifetime it would have been an INITIATIVE. Why choose a word from military nomenclature to describe an economic move? Perhaps The Guardian, wants to look at it this way because it might affect the hiring of British workers. Nonetheless, I think it's clearly rhetoric and not reporting.

    6. Re:Biased article.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a hard time believing you are mighty successful if you can't even read an article without subjectively valueing it after a single line.

      I would HATE to see the drek you call code.

  15. Logical failures by sjbe · · Score: 1

    If you change that current system that awards visas randomly, without regard for skill or wage, to a skills-based awarding, it makes it extremely difficult to use the visa to replace or undercut American workers [...] It's a very elegant way of solving very systemic problems in the H-1B guest worker visa."

    This person is either extremely naive or lying through their teeth. Awarding visas for skills does not automatically translate to paying comparable wages to receive those skills. They would have to monitor wages and ensure that the wages being paid do not fall below the median wages for the job and sharply limit the number of visa recipients to prevent flooding the market and thus driving down the median wage.

    Of course the problem is that reforms to the H1B visa program risk being basically a form of protectionism. It's potentially little different than slapping a tariff on imported products and has many of the same consequences. It ensures better wages for a small group of workers, typically at the expense of higher product costs for everyone else. For example if we protect steel workers from cheaper imported steel (presuming no dumping) we make cars more expensive the far larger general population. We hurt consumers to protect jobs that possibly don't need protecting. If the workers want to keep wages high they can unionize or lobby and that's just fine but honestly it's something of a loosing proposition if the labor they are doing can be done elsewhere. Programming and many other tech jobs are labor intensive work (albeit skilled labor) and if the labor can be gotten elsewhere for a lower price, sooner or later it will be. There is nothing magical about computer code written in the US versus in China or Russia.

    1. Re:Logical failures by GrooveNeedle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is nothing magical about computer code written in the US versus in China or Russia.

      I want to agree with this statement (assuming "China or Russia" can be replaced with a generic "overseas"), but my experience tells me otherwise. While anecdotal, I have spent time on many teams where I am one of a few, or possibly the only, non-Indian immigrant on the team (team size varies from 10-50 people). I'm a consultant, and I'm pulled in to help on different projects for my firm's clients.

      The immigrants I've worked with, while nice (very much so), and knowledgeable in very specific technology, have no broad critical thinking skills, software design/architecture skills, or outside-the-box thinking. Basically, if what they need to code doesn't match an example from whatever 6-week class they took before getting the visa, they won't have a clue. This means the solutions end up being a glut of cobbled together code until things work. There's entire segments of code that are usually obsolete or do nothing... worse yet, silently fail; users just get tired of reporting bugs and find their own workarounds, so management falsely believes things are being fixed when the bug reports die down.

      This isn't their fault mind you. They are being exploited... first by the inadequate training farms in their native country (or possibly online), and then by the "body shops" that bring them to the US and hire them out at outrageous rates while paying as little as possible. While their client is getting subpar coding infused into their software, ultimately increasing costs over time.

      I want the H-1B visas overhauled not only to ensure America jobs stay American, but also so these immigrants aren't exploited. They are more than welcome to move to this country, but it should be on better terms, even if that prevents a multitude of them from coming here without more effort than is being expended now.

    2. Re:Logical failures by kimanaw · · Score: 1

      There's entire segments of code that are usually obsolete or do nothing... worse yet, silently fail; users just get tired of reporting bugs and find their own workarounds,

      This. I've had to completely rewrite code like this that performed dismally, and was shocked when I saw how deep the crap was. It was obviously just a shit-throwing exercise, and when the wall was full, they shipped it. I've also had the joy of managing offshore groups, only to learn that the team had no experience with the product they were hired to code/test. Where I come from, that's called criminal fraud. Yet the shit keeps flowing...

      One particularly memorable episode was an offshore team hired to write some integration code. After 4 months of silence (except for billing, of course), we finally dragged them into a demo session...which lasted about 5 minutes, ending with their team arguing heatedly with each other in Hindi, because they obviously hadn't done more than hacked a "hello world" app during their 4 billed months. Suffice to say lawsuits soon followed.

      But that also raises a question I've pondered for awhile: why isn't there more news about the lawsuits against these "firms" ? I've personally witnessed several, yet I don't recall hearing anything similar in the news (tech or otherwise). Do these outfits just suck it up and settle silently, with the plaintiffs keeping silent as well, to cover their arses ?

      --
      007: "Who are you?"
      Pussy: "My name is Pussy Galore."
      007: "I must be dreaming..."
    3. Re:Logical failures by computational+super · · Score: 2

      Awarding visas for skills does not automatically translate to paying comparable wages to receive those skills

      I'm pretty sure the only skill that matters is the "being able to work for slightly above minimum wage" skill.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    4. Re:Logical failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It shouldn't be median wages. It should be top 5% - period. Then only the best and brightest will be hired via H1B, instead of the hoards of mediocrity that we have now.

    5. Re:Logical failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the education, mindset, and training. In general the required prerequisites for the offshore developer are lower than in the US. In most companies there is fierce competition for development jobs so people who land the jobs tend to be well educated and intelligent. It is not always the case with the offshore workers. Also please keep in mind that the Indian higher education system is not nearly as good as the US, Canada, Europe, or other Asian countries(Australia, New Zealand,Japan, Korea, even China), outside of IIT the quality falls dramatically and quickly.

  16. Require all jobs to be posted and interviewed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about a mandatory national job posting board for any employer that wants to use an H1B. Before getting an H1B slot, they have to first post the job and all requirements, and then they must interview anyone who meets the posted requirements, and justify in writing to the applicant why the American applicant is rejected for the H1B worker.... and they can't base the choice on a skill that is not listed in the job posting.

    1. Re:Require all jobs to be posted and interviewed. by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      and they need to have staff job interviewers to put places to the test that they are really doing an interview not just a quick chat with some HR person that wants to not hire a USC.

      Also the posted requirements will be reviewed and flagged.

    2. Re:Require all jobs to be posted and interviewed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Required Skills/Languages:

      C++, C#, Java, PHP, Hindi

      ====

      Problem: Solved.

  17. But it's a very well known fact... by gwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That US-Americans haven't learned to use that metric. Nor any decent metric. They are still stuck using Imperial.

    (hmmm, quite fitting for Mr. Trump!)

    1. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a difference between what the government can do and what it should do. most of those things people can do by themselves. The few things you listed that the government should do we are doing just as much as before. The only difference is the way for peace and I am not sure that Obama's foreign policy is something to emulate.

    2. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      It is getting there. If one does any servicing work, it is using metric measurements. When communicating temperature, one uses both Centigrade and Fahrenheit to get the info across. Even all cars here in the US both have mph and kph on the speedos, or if digital, the ability to switch units.

      The invisible hand will eventually push the US to the metric system.

    3. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      We should have gone over to metric decades ago. I never saw the logic or the need to not go metric. Now, in most cases, we have label/signs that have both.

      I realize we have quite a lot of time and materials that rely upon imperial measurement, but changing to metric has been on going for the last several decades and we are still emphasizing imperial measurement. How many more years will we have to wait to officially adopt the easier measurement system?

    4. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by halivar · · Score: 2

      Because all the places that are non-metric are still intuitive to Americans. An inch is about the length of your thumb. A foot is about the length of your foot. A cup is about as much as a tea cup, and twice that you have what fits in pint glass. 0-100 degrees Fahrenheit covers the comfortable livable temperature of humans, and thus is very convenient for telling the weather (which is what 90% of what all non-cooking Americans use temperature for).

      Anything that requires precision is already metric. Chemistry, engineering, etc.

      Everything except screws, nuts, and bolts. We have a screwy double-measure system that drives me bonkers.

    5. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      Back in the 1970s, there was a time where highway signs in the US were marked in both miles and kilometers. I just don't get why this isn't just done now, then miles are phased out completely. It only continues to cause us grief.

    6. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why go the metric system?

      The US is quite obviously an imperialistic country, throwing their military might whereever they see things that don't follow their own ideoligies.

    7. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both new Cheveys I have (Malibu and Cruze) have a speedo that only shows mph.

    8. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by pnutjam · · Score: 2

      An inch is about the length of your thumb

      That's a small hand, is that you Donnie?

    9. Re: But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: The USA ***doesn't use*** "imperial" units. We use US customary units. They can differ significantly from the "imperial" (i.e., old United Kingdom) units. America took the old UK units and rationalized (regularized) them.

      Note to metric fans: US hard liquor volumetric measure was standardized to metric units since about 1980. Give the US some credit the next time you enjoy your short fifth. ;-)

    10. Re: But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heavens, however will you be able to keep under the speed limit when all the road signs are in MPH? You'll have to do a tricky double ROT-13 to match the posted speed limits with your speedometer readout.

    11. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An inch is about the width of your thumb.

    12. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by halivar · · Score: 1

      My hand *is* small. Seriously hinders me on guitar. :(

    13. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Having learned the metric system in Detroit public schools in the 60s, I'm amazed that we've never been able to get all the lingering Imperial system out of the way. I now wonder if it will even happen in my lifetime.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    14. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Because all the places that are non-metric are still intuitive to Americans. An inch is about the length of your thumb. A foot is about the length of your foot. A cup is about as much as a tea cup, and twice that you have what fits in pint glass. 0-100 degrees Fahrenheit covers the comfortable livable temperature of humans, and thus is very convenient for telling the weather (which is what 90% of what all non-cooking Americans use temperature for).

      An inch is far shorter than the average thumb and a foot is far longer than the average foot. No one drinks a "tea cup" in the US, and they'd be much happier with 0.5L glasses, or L mugs. :)

      0F is pretty damn cold, and for most people, 100F is pretty damn hot. I'd rather be in 0-35C, personally, and there's nothing difficult about 0C - water freezes. 30C - it's quite warm out. I'll bet within 3 months no one would care about F.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    15. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      Anything that requires precision is already metric. Chemistry, engineering, etc.

      Only since 1999 after the Mars Climate Orbiter fiasco. The conversion started in the 70's from what I remember, but there was resistance from most big businesses as too costly and time consuming. Thus we now have dual labels/signs as well as two sets of wrenches, socket tool sets, etc....

      I guess it will take a couple more of these types of losses to convince Congress to fully convert to metric and ignore big businesses whining.

    16. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      And I don't know why we don't all have Braille keyboards. After a couple of years of typing everyone would know Braille.

      Then we could put it on buttons and controls that are in hard to see places or areas where there is little light. Like those tiny ass buttons on the side of flat screen TV's that have imperceptible markings. Or any switch on the bottom of the sink disposal. Wrenches and sockets could be marked with Braille so you could tell the size without having to look.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    17. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by halivar · · Score: 1

      Well, it's been 18 years, so those "couple more of these types of losses" are taking their sweet ol' time.

    18. Re: But it's a very well known fact... by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      Correction: US is based on the old English Units and did not change them when the UK went to the Imperial system in 1824.

    19. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by zwarte+piet · · Score: 1

      People don't like change.

    20. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      0F is pretty damn cold, and 100F is pretty damn hot.
      That's the point.

      Where _I_ live, about 0F is a normal temp at noon on the coldest day of the year, and about 100F the normal temp at noon on the hottest day of the year.
      That makes it PERFECT for weather. Obviously my latitude more or less is the same as the people who originally developed and refined the Fahrenheit scale, but I have been to places that are hotter and colder than where I live.
      Guess what?
      Above 100F is HOT for a human, even near the equator. You drink extra water, stay in the shade, and delay outside work until it cools off if you can. Even if you are adapted to the weather, above 100F is still a hot day.
      Guess what else?
      Below 0F is COLD for a human, even in Alaska. You dress warmer, pre-heat your car, carry extra blankets, and otherwise delay outside work until it warms up if you can. Even if you are adapted to the weather below 0 is still a cold day.

      That is the great thing about the scale. It is perfect at measuring for human comfort and weather.

      Also, what the hell does water freezing have to do with temp?
      What I mean is, why is the freezing and boiling point of water any less arbitrary than a Fahrenheit scale that uses the temperature range that humans can easily live in without advance technology like air conditioning or natural gas central heating?
      Why not use the freezing and boiling point of silicon? It is very abundant on our planet? Led? Iron?
      Why is water somehow a perfect thing to base the measure on? It is not as self-evident as many think.

      Where _I_ live it can get colder than 25 below 0F and hotter than 110F. It is not every year and..
      Anything below 0 and above 100 is disruptive.

      We already have Kelvin, what the hell is Celsius for?

    21. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Also, what the hell does water freezing have to do with temp?

      Despite your rant, you realize the Fahrenheit scale is based on freezing and boiling water?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    22. Re: But it's a very well known fact... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that I'm 58, and learned it in public school back then, I'd hazard to guess that everyone younger than me has likely had the same exposure. It wouldn't be change for them.

    23. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Sign language would be even more useful.
      If you can see someone, you can talk to them, no matter how far away or how noisy the environment.

    24. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      An inch is about the width of a thumb. My thumb is about 7/8" so it's reasonably close for an approximation. My foot is almost a foot in length, but I admittedly wear a large shoe size. It's close enough that if I wanted to get a rough measurement of a room it's good enough. But usually I just take a stride to be approximately 1 meter (which is also approximately 1 yard) and just count strides.

      Fahrenheit isn't actually that bad for describing the weather. The weather most of the time in most places will be between 0 and 100 F. If temperature is outside that range it's either cold enough or hot enough to be potentially dangerous if you are outside for an extended period and you aren't prepared. With Celsius you have to deal with negative temperatures in your range for regular winter weather. So if you need a temperature scale for everyday usage, I find Fahrenheit is perfectly fine. And for science, absolute zero should be 0 degrees, so Celsius isn't even all that useful there either, except for being easier to convert to Kelvin.

    25. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's based upon the temperature of a brine solution and body temperature. Probably because they were two reliable and repeatable temperature measurements at the time the scale was devised*. The end points were at 0 and 96 F, because once you hake those two measurements, you can divide your scale into 3 equal sections of 32 degrees, and then keep dividing the 32 degree sections in half to complete marking your scale.

      Later it was refined to make the boiling point of water 212 degrees, giving 180 degrees of separation between the boiling and freezing point of water. This made body temperature about 98 degrees F.

      * The brine solution (water, ice, and enough salt that not all of it dissolves) is more reliable than just ice and water if you can't be reasonably sure of how pure the water is. And the boiling point changes with altitude so it's not a great reference to use either.

    26. Re:But it's a very well known fact... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that trend on newer cars too. I'm not sure of where it started, but the Cruze originally had the KM/H markings on the inner part of the dial as had been done for years, but lost them around 2014 or so. It would be really annoying to have to drive a US spec Cruze in Canada. I assume the Canadian version has KM/H markings, but does it still have MPH on the inner part of the dial?

  18. Lip service by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have seen so much lip service from politicians on this, and with Trump being the least reliable of them all, I will rejoice when I actually see something done that makes a difference.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Lip service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. This action is completely meaningless, as the current year's H-1B quota has been filled already. These rules will have effect in 2018 only.

  19. The simple way to fix the problems by jonwil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just set a minimum wage for H-1B visas so anyone imported in via a H-1B visa costs more than hiring an American to do the job would have cost and most of the abuse of the system goes away.

    Combine this with some sort of labor market testing so they cant bring in a foreign worker if there is an American capable of doing the job and 99% of the problems with H-1B visas go away. (if you do this right you can structure it to also avoid the situation where companies import foreign workers to train them up and send them back to their home country as cheap outsourced labor)

    Doing this ensures that H-1B visas only get used when there is no American capable of doing the job (and the company can demonstrate they tried to find an American for the job first) or when they need a specific individual for some reason (and can prove there is no American with the necessary skills/experience/knowledge to do the job)

    Will this solve every issue with H-1B visas? No. Will companies try to find loopholes? Yes. Would this be significantly better than doing nothing? Most definitely.

    1. Re:The simple way to fix the problems by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The trick about being a politician is to look like you put something in place but make it complicated enough so that when people work around it you can claim ignorance. The minimum wage idea is just far too simple and effective for that to work.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:The simple way to fix the problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are there any jobs USAians are not capable of doing? Unfortunately that is turning out to be the case as time goes on. Just as there were no Russians capable of building a nuclear weapon in 1943. We are outsourcing our industrial and scientific base to China. How long would it take a USAian to make a hard drive. It would take a while for USAian manufacturing to get up to speed. Yet the USA is happily buying cheap stuff from overseas not realizing the USA is giving away its inheritance.

      The USA is like an antebellum slave owner who believes he is getting a good deal by all this cheap labor, not realizing that in 150 years his spoiled white progeny will not be able to compete against the more virile black people that he used to own.

      What is not true is there are software jobs that can not be done by USAians. Software is easy. Managers just have an inherent bias against USAians because they 'believe' they can make more money overseas.

    3. Re:The simple way to fix the problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not even sure you need to do that, change the lottery from random to "sorted by salary, highest first". That gets you a "free market" with these visas, and all those shops trying to bring in people for pennies will just get denied. Plus the people who really need the H1B visas can easily get the visa, just pay a nice high salary and it goes right through.

    4. Re:The simple way to fix the problems by MikeMo · · Score: 1

      I know we're all cynical and hate everyone today, but is *just* possible that he/they are actually trying to solve a problem, for reals. Right?

    5. Re:The simple way to fix the problems by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      All I'm saying is that I will believe it when I see it. It is too difficult to read between the lines. There are a great many better solutions right here on Slashdot that seem quite obvious so it begs the question why they are not keeping it simple. Also, I may be having an easier time believing if they showed any interest in prosecuting people who are getting rid of domestic workers and using an H-1B whether they are from a consulting company or not. To me that seems such a glaring hold against the very wording of the policy that is being ignored. I will believe it when I see it.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    6. Re:The simple way to fix the problems by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Even simpler way to fix the problem:

      Hand out the visas starting from the highest salary and go down until you run out of visas. Possibly via an auction-like process.

      If a company really can't find a US worker, they are willing to pay quite a premium. If a company is just looking for cheap labor, they won't get a visa.

  20. I Can Only Assume... by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1

    ...this means the headlines and summaries of many of the Slashdot articles will be understandable after just one reading again. Sounds great, I can't wait...

  21. Buy America Hire America - BAHA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Baha men.

    Who let the trump out
    Who, who, uurgh what a disgusting smell

    1. Re:Buy America Hire America - BAHA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's spelled Baja

    2. Re:Buy America Hire America - BAHA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That depends if we are discussing Mexicans or a one-hit wonder from 2000.

  22. Question for Slashdotters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should H1B be an avenue for highly qualified graduates to get hired in the USA? i.e. People with little experience but highly skilled / trained, high potential

  23. Re:A great man take no days off or pay by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    He has spent way more money going to his vacation resort every weekend then Obama did by this time in his presidency. Also, Trump refuses to use Camp David which is set up for the president, so the local government needs to foot the bill for the local police service to do crowd control and also the local airport needs to shut down for security. It is running into 30 million plus already.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  24. You're giving him too much credit... by denzacar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given the "swamp draining" skills Trump's shown so far, I'm expecting that he's going to outsource the implementation and enforcement of the H1B program to an Indian corporation...

    Instead, just start the countdown clock until he reports that "No one realized that visas would be so hard." or until he has a 10 minute conversation with a foreign leader who explains to him why he's wrong.
    Or until they find him in the corner of the rose garden smearing himself in his own shit as the dementia kicks into top gear.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re: You're giving him too much credit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you posted your fan fic on /. doesn't mean that it will come true.

      Just my advice, find other hobbies than scat fiction writing.

  25. Small detail by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    The executive order will also call for the "strict enforcement" of laws governing entry to the U.S. of labor from overseas.

    Good news for Canadians and Mexicans!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Small detail by green1 · · Score: 1

      You're assuming Trump knows geography....

      Of course it actually IS good news for Canada. We're already starting to see a surge of tech companies moving to Canada from the USA because of Trump's immigration policies.

      The supporters of these sorts of initiatives don't realize that when it's uneconomical for a business to operate in the USA, they don't suddenly start hiring more people at higher wages, they close up shop and move somewhere that they can make money, and they take ALL the jobs with them, not just the H-1Bs

  26. The very best immigrant coders... by mujadaddy · · Score: 1

    The very best immigrant coders...

    ...get sponsored for citizenship.

    --
    Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
    "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
  27. Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ironic move by Trump considering the first lady arrived in the US on a H1B visa for models. Was it because there were not enough good talented models in the US? She was granted visa as a "Model of extraordinary ability"

    1. Re:Ironic by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Domestic models don't like their pussies grabbed.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no problem increasing the percentage of supermodels in the population.

  28. Now I'm worried by Dawn+Keyhotie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is the only Trump policy that I actually agree with. So I'm on the horns of a dilemma. Is this actually the only policy of his that is not actively harmful? Or am I on the wrong side of the issue?

    The use of H1B visas can only serve to short-circuit one of the foundational principal of capitalism, which is supply and demand. When demand exceeds existing supply, prices must rise in order to stimulate the generation of more supply. When supply exceeds demand, prices must go down to discourage excess production. If this mechanism is undercut, then supply and demand get out of whack and the relevant market becomes distorted. This happens any time that price controls are imposed on a market, or when there is a sudden unanticipated spike in demand for a product, or when supply is artificially inflated. This is true of any market, including the labor market.

    The use of H1B visas is actively depressing demand for more American STEM graduates, which is the exact opposite of what President Obama said he wanted. Who wants to go into a field where their jobs can be easily outsourced to cheap imported labor? Into a job market where the government is actively working against its own citizens? Nobody who has any sense, that's who.

    So I do feel that Trump is actually correct on this issue. Let's see how long it is before he flip-flops on this one, too.

    --
    "The only good windmill is a tilted windmill."
    1. Re:Now I'm worried by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      There is no 'policy' until something is actually done that is effective. Right now all it is Trump saying something to make working voters feel better. Does he believe in doing something swift and concise to bring an end to all the issues? This isn't it,. If companies can't find enough workers, then the market dictates they should pay more for workers. When Trump is willing to set minimum wage for H-1Bs in line with a step up in pay to try to participate in the market, then he has demonstrated this is his policy.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is the only Trump policy that I actually agree with. So I'm on the horns of a dilemma. Is this actually the only policy of his that is not actively harmful? Or am I on the wrong side of the issue?

      Neither. You are on the wrong side of many issues because you are sheltered from the inevitable consequences of those positions you hold. This one is close enough to home that you cannot dismiss the realities of the situation, and you are reflexively aware of the value of this change. Despite this, you are so emotionally attached to hating people who disagree with you on other political subjects that you are willing to change your opinion to one you know is wrong just to continue disagreeing with them rather than accepting that you have a common ground.

    3. Re:Now I'm worried by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Heck Hitler was big advocate for the creation of a economy car. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while...

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    4. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pulling out of TPP negotiations was also a good move on his part. This idea that you must always oppose someone because you have opposed a lot of what they do is black or white thinking. Reality is more nuanced than that.

    5. Re:Now I'm worried by swillden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is this actually the only policy of his that is not actively harmful?

      You must attribute superhuman powers to Trump in order to believe that every policy he makes is actively harmful. Honestly, it would be impossible for any human to do that on purpose, it would require omniscience. Odds are that there are any number of policies that you believe in which would also be actively harmful. The same is true for me, and for everyone.

      I disagree with most of what Trump is doing and has done, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I can tell what is and what is not harmful with certainty, and I don't believe that Trump is Satan incarnate, doing nothing but evil.

      To put it another way: Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Trump will be right sometimes, too.

      But I actually think he's wrong on this one. H1-B reform is needed, but his change is inadequate. At a minimum H1-B visa holders also need to be allowed to change jobs without losing their visa.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    6. Re:Now I'm worried by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      This is the only Trump policy that I actually agree with. So I'm on the horns of a dilemma.

      Let me get you out of the horns of dilemma; this doesn't change anything. All this EO does is say that in 220 days, Trump is to get a report on his desk, informing him about the current situation and if there's anything he can do about it.

    7. Re:Now I'm worried by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      When demand exceeds existing supply, prices must rise

      Since when has the demand for skilled labor ever exceeded supply? Unfortunately for people trying to sell their labor there is a vast overabundance of other human beings around the world trying to do exactly the same thing. What the world lacks is buyers. So of course it's a buyers market and they get to make the rules and such rules tend to be skewed badly in their favor. Where I live people will work for $5 -$7 a day usually and they won't complain about having to work for that much. Borders are currently a thing, but eventually you are going to have to compete with millions or even billions of such people. That is the hard reality of a Capitalist free market. Just imagine if Trump reversed his closed immigration policies and instead fully opened the US borders to anyone who wanted to live there or at least to anyone with a university degree. Now that would be a free market. That would be Capitalism doing what it does best, but it would suck for a lot of Americans. Overall I do think human happiness would be maximized and human misery minimized in such a border-free world though. Or maybe everyone unlucky enough to be a wage slave would be miserable. Hard to say.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    8. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of Trump's policies are good. This is just the only one you have personal experience with which is why you are able to tell that his political opponents are lying about it.

    9. Re:Now I'm worried by ghoul · · Score: 1

      The market is now global. Try to establish a local monopoly and companies will move offshore. its way easier to move IT work than factory work and factory work already moved. People should just adjust their expectations. Work like IT that can be done from anywhere in the world even sitting in a bunker inside a war zone while a civil war is going on around just does not need a high cost environment like the US. IT work is going to go away. Get used to the idea. And STEMIT.
      H1B allows some of the IT work to stay onshore and provides an environment where folks can intern and then move on to real STEM work. if there are no IT departments onshore there will be no place to intern and it will be more difficult to go on to do the innovative STEM work

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    10. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are wrong on the issue. There is some H1-B abuse that needs to be curtailed.
      But there is also a real shortage of talented workforce.

      The companies are left with two choices, H1-B or outsourcing. Personally, I would rather the
      jobs stay here than be outsourced. The MAGA gang here mistakenly believe their salaries
      would go up and their America would stay more white for a little longer. I don't see the former
      happening. The latter, probably, but this a very small drop in the bucket and its racism that I
      can't condone.

    11. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who wants to go into a field where their jobs can be easily outsourced to cheap imported labor? Into a job market where the government is actively working against its own citizens? Nobody who has any sense, that's who.

      That said, I know several young "would have been STEM" people, entering (or already in) college that have chosen NOT to get into STEM for precisely that reason...even those who have not been crowned college graduates seem to understand the writing on the wall.

    12. Re: Now I'm worried by Dawn+Keyhotie · · Score: 1

      LOL.

      --
      "The only good windmill is a tilted windmill."
    13. Re:Now I'm worried by computational+super · · Score: 1

      IT work is going to go away.

      I'll respond not to you, but to any young American programmer who might feel a rising sense of panic whenever this old canard is trotted out. Before you think, "oh, shit, he's right, I better keep my head down and my mouth shut because without H1B's keeping programming work in America, I'll be living in a refrigerator box" consider: if programming was so easily offshorable, they'd long since offshored it. The internet has been ubiquitous since 1995 - offshoring was as feasible by the year 2000 as it is now, 17 years later. Yet thousands of companies still produce software inside the expensive borders of the United States. Why? Well, language barriers, culture barriers, and time-zone differences are just a few factors that makes offshoring programming very difficult. Ask yourself - if having coding done by somebody you've never met on the other side of the world is so simple, why do employers rent expensive office space and insist that everybody be physically present at a desk where they can keep an eye on them here? OP is almost certainly an MBA and not a programmer, because he still believes (as all MBAs do) that programming is sort of a factory assembly-type job. Of course, anybody who has every tried to specify a computer system down to the level where it can be automatically assembled like a calculator on a factory floor will eventually come to the realization that such a specification is a computer program, and the only people who can produce them are computer programmers.

      You know who can be replaced by any random warm body, though? MBAs and project managers. So next time you see a homeless guy on the street, don't put a quarter in his cup, he probably tried to offshore you two years ago.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    14. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chill out. You hate the man so much you are redefining words in your own mind to justify your own hatred.

      Sure people feel better with a villain to fight, but people that think of the world in those terms become what they loathe the most in the end.

      Calm down. Take a deep breath. Reevaluate your values and life decisions.

    15. Re:Now I'm worried by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      If it were that easy then they wouldn't need H-1Bs so badly. They would just go to where they are hiring people from.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    16. Re:Now I'm worried by ghoul · · Score: 1

      And there you go again conflating IT and Programming. IT Programming and it is not that difficult to do. I am a programmer who grew into management. I still miss coding as its way more fun to do than managing IT contractors but most of IT work is make work. It is done by humans because the humans are cheaper than doing a project to automate it.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    17. Re:Now I'm worried by computational+super · · Score: 1

      conflating IT

      What, do you mean like the guy who resets your password and reboots the wifi router when it goes down? Even harder to offshore... but not usually highly paid, either.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    18. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok here is how it works. Boss hires a guy he knows from Church to work as his IT manager. Guy doesnt want to do any work , he wants to manage. His skill set is schmoozing with the boss. Now he decides to outsource the work. If he outsources it the right way with proper specs and processes soon he will not have a job as the offshore folks are competent and can do what is needed. So he hangs on to some information , doesnt provide clear guidance , in general behaves as a dick. Offshore folks need clear direction so they say we need an onsite coordinator. This coordinator has to be cheap as really the budget covering his work is already being spent on the Schmooze from Church. He comes on an H1. His job is to talk to the "Client" and turn Dickspeak into normal English which normal IT folks can understand. Hence you need H1s. Force it too much so that you cant get cheap H1s the Boss may just decide its better to start offshoring the right way and eliminate the IT manager and H1B Onsite co-ordinator positions. This is for IT.
      For software development the H1 folks are paid north of 120K and wont be affected by any 100K cutoff.
      The line between IT and Software tends to get blurred a little as many IT orgs develop software internally while behaving like IT dicks. An easy differentiator is do they provide stock. If they provide stock they are a software development shop, if not they are an IT shop. (Again generally speaking)

    19. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a simple explanation for this that I have encountered time and time again. Liberals tend to be super left wing on everything other than those one or two issues which are really close to home, and that affect them directly. Its easy to sing Kumbaya about issues which don't affect you directly and for which you don't have to pay any cost. Thats why left wing, pro-immigration Jews are suddenly anti-immigration when it comes to Israel, or why BLM supporting, suburban housewives move their families out of inner city areas to all-white, suburban enclosures with good schools, or why left wing programmers on Slashdot suddenly sound like nativists when it comes to H1B visas. There are a million other examples.

      Everyone is right-wing about those one or two issues that actually affect them.

    20. Re:Now I'm worried by ghoul · · Score: 1

      I mean systems which are a webpage, a webservice and a database built by internal folks for a company. Basically bespoke work which does not need to be flexible. A huge amount of this gets done as coders are cheap. If coders become expensive companies will use COTS and cloud based solutions. And rebooting your server can be done remotely as can resetting your password. There's very little that cant be done remotely - its a question of cost. does it make sense to build the systems so that you can do it remotely and pushing the cost of local labor up may change some decisions

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    21. Re:Now I'm worried by Will_Malverson · · Score: 1

      It's a well-known law of politics that people tend to be more conservative about things they know personally.

    22. Re:Now I'm worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read a pretty relevant quote, I can't remember who said it first, but I read it from Ann Coulter (you're a fan surely?! haha)

      It goes something like: "People are most conservative on topics they're most familiar with"

      I think there's something pretty notable about that observation. I'd speculate that many of the issues that you are interested in or align with politically are somewhat removed from your actual daily existence. Because one of the strange things about Trump's positions is that they really do align with the interests of a majority of Americans by kind-of turning the political spectrum on it's side and making it more about economics. There are probably many positions he supports that you could agree with, but it's hard because narratives about bad things happening to other people are very compelling. Especially when you're fortunate enough to not have to think about imminent bad things happening to yourself.

      Now, he could be a charlatan and all that, we'll certainly find out. For now I'm just happy he signed this thing, and hoping that the Secretaries come back with some good stuff over the next few months. It really does seem obvious that this program along with some of the others are destroying our domestic labor force in this area. It's really not doing the country any favors

    23. Re:Now I'm worried by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      Trump is a stopped clock, and this is the "minute" in which he's right.

  29. Right Sure... by evolutionary · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it's one thing Trump has shown in his pattern of behaviour in his first 3.5 months in office, is his policies will always have exception clauses for his corporate buddies. in other words, he'll try to make things look like they support principle, but allow loopholes for his corporate colleagues as well as his own private businesses. (which is a conflict of interest). For example, the so-called, Anti-Muslim Immigration act (it does discriminate against Muslim countries but that isn't the bill's name). Apparently Muslim countries that did business with Trump businesses were exempt. Trump talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. While I agree that corporate abuse of foreign visa to get in cheap labor and lowering the quality of living overall in the USA needs to stop, I don't think Trump is the one to do it. He just talks big. I'm going to have to much fun see how his "wall" plays out.

    --
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
    1. Re:Right Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Apparently Muslim countries that did business with Trump businesses were exempt.

      Apparently you don't know what the fuck you're talking about since that's not remotely close to being true.

    2. Re:Right Sure... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Apparently you don't know what the fuck you're talking about since that's not remotely close to being true.

      Please educate yourself. You're embarrassing all the other asshats on Slashdot.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-majority-countries-donald-trump-travel-ban-immigration-entry-visa-three-main-countries-exempt-a7552526.html

    3. Re:Right Sure... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently you don't know what the fuck you're talking about since that's not remotely close to being true.

      Please educate yourself. You're embarrassing all the other asshats on Slashdot.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-majority-countries-donald-trump-travel-ban-immigration-entry-visa-three-main-countries-exempt-a7552526.html

      Uh, yeah. You're the embarrassment who needs to educate yourself. The executive order is based on a law passed in 2015 and signed by Obama - and the seven countries are listed there. Even the loons at Politifact know this:

      http://www.politifact.com/wisc...

    4. Re:Right Sure... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      The executive order is based on a law passed in 2015 and signed by Obama - and the seven countries are listed there.

      And conveniently ignoring the countries that Trump has business interests in. You do realize that most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia?

    5. Re:Right Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point about those famous "seven countries" is that their residents have more rigorous screening requirements before they get granted a visa to travel to the USA. In other words, travelers from those countries have already received more thorough screening than those from anywhere else on earth.

      They are the last people who should be prevented from entering the country.

    6. Re:Right Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia?

      So you're blaming US policy for the last 15 years on Trump now? Did Obama, who signed that law, have business interests in Saudi Arabia, too? How about Bush, before that?

  30. My mom did at 40 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First loading printers, then a Computer Vision system admin, finally a unix System Admin
    in her 50s. All at AT&T when it was good, 40-odd years back.

  31. High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Informative
    I just got the results of this years lottery. My MS Mech UT Austin, and MS CompSci CalTech candidates did not make it. Makes me furious that they are going to bring in candidates with paper from diploma mills from my home state in India, while these good candidates are denied visa.

    Our company makes very sincere effort to recruit Americans and comply with the laws in spirit as well as letter. We pay way above median wage for our areas. We are hard core engineering software company, not IT. I have not seen applicants with degrees from Indian Institutes of Technology in the last 10 years. It has simply dried up. IITians now a days get fantastic jobs in India, or they go do MBA and come to USA to do MBA and get jobs in top Wall Street firms and top 4 consultancy companies.

    I do see applicants with degrees from next rung in India, NITs and good engineering colleges with Masters from USA.

    The only change they really need to make to the H1B program is to state that degrees from accredited US universities will be given first preference. Degrees from diploma mills from India should not count. That would be enough to make sure these companies like TCS, Cogniscent, Wipro, Infosys and the lesser known body shoppers like R-systems, UBICS, Bharat Desai's companies, Sunil Wadhwani's companies etc stop gaming our laws.

    (my background: IIT, IISc, UT, F1, H1B, Green Card, Citizen now.)

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re: High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the FUCK can a CALTECH !! graduate get passed over for a know nothing Indian ???

      Do you have any idea how fucked that is ??

    2. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should be allowed to be a citizen unless you serve in the military. We should be more certain of which way new citizens will shoot if ward breaks out. I have my doubts will all off the Russians, Chinese, and Indians here.

    3. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am from Batuknath Institute of Technology and I can beat any IIT IISc candidates easily. I am a research scholar with 100+ published papers, 25 patents that are actively used in aerodynamics industry today. IITians can wipe my ass.

    4. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      I found your picture Not so anonymous now. But still a coward, I am sure.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    5. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by E-Lad · · Score: 1

      Further predicating a well-paying job on a degree inflames other problem areas - mainly, around poorer US citizens who cannot or could not afford an advanced degree - or any degree at all - having access to well-paying jobs IF they can demonstrate the skills and build the experience needed to satisfy its requirements. I'm one of these people, myself. I'm now on my 22nd year in this industry, and I credit a lot of luck and hard work to get to where I am now financially. A degree was never a factor in this journey.

      I understand the importance of such degrees in places such as India, but I think this is an anachronism in some areas, especially if the degree comes from a place where the emphasis was on rote learning rather than independent discovery and natural knowledge maturation.

    6. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly, your guys are the ones we want and need. My friend had the same predicament trying to get a Phd scientist from France hired, couldn't get the guy an H1B, guy moved back to France. Most likely because Cognizant needed a 19 year old PHP coder for 40k per year. Yes preference should be given to established universities.

    7. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      PhD s can apply for green card directly. No need for H1B.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    8. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what is "aerodynamics industry"? just curious.

    9. Re:High quality Indian applicants are scarce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Abe Jamuna ke laude, Jamuna mein jaake doob mar. Behenchot, American ban gaya. Kiss ko show off kar raha hai, bhayya?

      Traitor, coward. Running away from your country's problems instead of helping to solve them. And then taking pride in depriving some hapless Indian engineers to get a 2 bit job in the US and make a bit of money for themselves and their poor families back in India? What, are you proud of that? Just what is wrong with doing that huh?? You think this racist bill is going to actually do any real good for the world?

      You are a nobody. Just a money chasing pathetic piece of shit.

      Btw: IIT-B class of 90, UC PhD here. I actually returned to India to do some good here.

        *Spit*.

  32. J-visa workaround by zerofoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suspect we will see an increase in "students" looking for work via J-visa:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    The administration better be ready for body shops to work around the new restrictions - there is too much money here to simply walk away.

  33. Pay the going market pay rate, or go out business! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, I worked 6 years in the US under H1B a couple of years back (I am a Canadian electrical engineer). There seem to be to class of H1B:

    1. The special kind of skills that the US gets for those job where the skill pool is not sufficient for the work in the US. Those are paid well, and generally used only when no equivalent workers are available in the US. During my time in the US I paid good taxes to the US, and I helped company stay in business without stealing anybody's job. After 6 years, I came back to Canada and now these companies in the US are doing just fine without me and are employing US workers. Making a minimum salary is sensible (be it a fixed amount or a % above the median salary are two god options).

    2. The cheaper replacement than US workers that are used simply to save $. These are the "stealing" job kind. There seem to be some companies specializing in that sort of things. (like the whole Disney story?). This should be outlawed plain and simple.

    I think that before they made me a job offer, the american companies had to have proofs that they tried to find american worker first (Public job offering, etc.) That can't be the case for #2.

    We have the same kind of lowballing companies in Canada too! They offer a job for 6 months at 40K when the going rate is 90-100K, then they ask for government for grants to subsidize them with tax credit to pay for the 40K gap. This is the socialist equivalent of H1B... but the same thing. Cheap corporation trying to make easy $ on the system.

    If you can't pay the going rate for the worker you need, you business plan doesn't hold the road. I believe in corporate natural selection: your company should Die-off! and be replaced by one with a valid business model that can pay your country's citizen at a valid going pay rate, plain and simple.

  34. Heard later... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Who knew that using government force to prevent free markets would be so hard?"

    I get why liberals voted for this guy to be president, but why the fuck did conservatives?!

  35. Easy way to MAGA by laurencetux · · Score: 1

    one thing they could do is add the percent over average in unemployment to the taxes paid for having H1-B workers (corrected for sector).

    So if your state has 15% unemployment (lets say national unemployment is at 10%) you would pay an extra 5% of payroll taxes on your H1-B workers.

    but anyway an easy way to MAGA is to ban retail sales of pre-shredded cheese

    and just like Magic America is now Grate Again

    1. Re:Easy way to MAGA by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      that could possibly only work if the local workforce is capable of taking the places of the H1-B workers. Why is it that no-one seems to get worked up about Apple et al building their phones/computers abroad? To get USA great again (fucking cliche for stupid) , they need to bring manufacturing back as its the only place where you need large numbers of workers. Maybe no-one wants to pay American prices for American products...

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    2. Re:Easy way to MAGA by jeff4747 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      High-skill jobs were what was supposed to replace the lost manufacturing jobs. The idea was to retrain some manufacturing workers, and younger people would get degrees that lead into high-skill jobs.

      H1Bs greatly harm that paradigm.

      they need to bring manufacturing back as its the only place where you need large numbers of workers

      Not anymore. Automation means you only need a larger number of workers if they are incredibly cheap workers. As soon as you go above third-world wages, automation is cheaper.

      This is starting to happen to China. Their manufacturing workers are getting expensive enough that companies are looking at "re-shoring" with highly automated factories and virtually no workers, or moving their plant to another country where workers are still incredibly poor.

    3. Re:Easy way to MAGA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe no-one wants to pay American prices for American products...

      Practically every person living in a city on the planet is paying American prices (roughly half a year's salary for many developing markets) for iPhones which are an American product. And you cannot convince me that Americans cannot make the hardware of the iPhone as well as or better than China.

      The local workforce is more than capable of taking the places of the *vast majority* of the H1-B workers. You are either incredibly incompetent and cannot see how incredibly incompetent most H1-B workers are or you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Far too many H1-B workers in the U.S. don't understand data structures (if they're in software development) or cannot even figure out how to use the "man" program on Unix (if they're in system administration).

    4. Re:Easy way to MAGA by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      quality might be the same but the costs won't be

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    5. Re:Easy way to MAGA by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      High skill jobs are a few, nowhere near enough to replace manufacturing jobs and never will be. reverse the automation and you get jobs but be prepared for costs/prices to go up.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    6. Re:Easy way to MAGA by Xest · · Score: 1

      "High-skill jobs were what was supposed to replace the lost manufacturing jobs. The idea was to retrain some manufacturing workers, and younger people would get degrees that lead into high-skill jobs.

      H1Bs greatly harm that paradigm."

      No they don't. The idea that the US can singularly produce the entire top tier of the worlds tech talent is farcical - development of the iPhone and Android etc. was entirely dependent on European talent for example because up to that point European phones were running about 5 years ahead of the North American market technology wise (i.e. my Nokia 7650 in 2002 had a colour screen, installable apps, GPS, etc. - stuff the iPhone didn't get half of until 2008).

      As such, for Americans to have enough high skilled jobs to around you need skilled workers from outside, and that's what H1Bs are for.

      The real issue is that H1Bs are being approved for low skilled workers - that's a problem with government in approving them for things other than they're intended for, and the companies that abuse them to put forward such submissions.

      But if you look at big tech like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook etc. you'll see that their H1B applications are indeed for highly paid, highly skilled workers. As such these companies are bringing skills into the country via H1B that help Americans reach higher levels of skill - the people that get brought across will inevitable pass down knowledge to Americans helping them skill up.

      The problem companies are the likes of WiPro, Infosys - i.e. Indian outsourcing firms - and a few fringe American bottom feeders like Disney.

      So H1Bs are absolutely necessary for the paradigm - if you believe that America can do it all itself including skilling up to be the world leader, then you're effectively saying that there's something special about the 320 million Americans as human beings over the other 6.9 billion humans out there. That's obviously drivel - and as such believing in and pushing that agenda is the fastest way to ensure you fall behind, because as the rest of the world collaborates more and more, you end up with a closed off knowledge pool that inevitably stagnates.

      I'm not saying that to date America hasn't punched above it's weight, of course it has, but lets be clear, it still hasn't even done that alone - it was reliant on the Godels, the Einsteins, the Djikstras, of the world to come to America to do precisely what I've suggested above - spread knowledge and skills. Even with them, things like the World Wide Web were invented at CERN in Europe by a British person.

      Your nation is absolutely the global tech leader, but don't believe you have and can do it alone. That's the surest way to lose that mantle.

  36. SJW "CENSOR BEAMS" ON MAXIMUM!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Citation/Proof? Not that it matter - He deserves vacation not taking presidential pay and bringing back many times more real jobs than Obama ever did in a far shorter timeframe also. Obama kept getting us in debt and war. Trump stopped WWIII with Korea instead. You SJW's always talk 'freedom of speech' and yet you down moderate anything that doesn't fit YOUR agendas. How transparent. Is that your favorite color? You're the WORST ABUSERS of free speech there is hypocrites. Now, go eat your welfare food us taxpayers pay for and stfu!

    APK

    P.S.=> Show me Obama brought back Intel, Carrier, Ford, GM, Lockheed (some before he was elected), IBM, Amazon (both adding jobs) & that's not even touching the entire list of GOOD paying jobs w/ DISPOSABLE INCOME (not part time no insurance minimum wage service industry only "jobs" (slavery))... apk

    1. Re:SJW "CENSOR BEAMS" ON MAXIMUM!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suck cocks.

      APK

      P.S.=> I love dicks in my butt too.

  37. remove health care, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bomb some more countries and alienate some more minorities and noone wants to come to the US anymore, anyway. No workers and no tourists, not even terrorists.

  38. Re:A great man take no days off or pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He goes to his resort every weekend at a huge cost to taxpayers. The amount of money he has spent on providing security for his weekend excursions far outweighs how much of his presidential salary hes donating.

    The man hasn't actually done a days worth of work. In the first hundred days he has not even visited another country, or heck even gone west of the Mississippi. Just every weekend in Florida.

    While this H1B thing is good, its more of a stopped clock being occasionally right sort of thing.

  39. Auction them not lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    With a lottery, the big shops put in for 500 visas and if they get 400 they are happy and hire a few good ones and hundreds of bodies.
    A small shop that needs a specific Phd, loses out.
    With an auction, the small shop can get the $200k Phd. The big shops bid on only the highest priced positions.
    The thing the government would have to watch out for is collusion amongst the Big shops. (like MS and others did already)

    1. Re:Auction them not lottery by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      And let's call them indentured servants instead of body shop slaves!

      Why admit what we're doing when we can pretend we're not doing it?

      We can even teach them the coding religions of America. No more of these C## imports, make them learn proper Algol.

      What could possibly go wrong?

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  40. Re:A great man take no days off or pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much has George Soros paid YOU for your SJW anti-Trump message? I understand he's blown 5 billion so far. How much of that is your cut??

  41. Re:Yes!!! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Finally a president who cares about the america people! This is exactly why I voted for Trump

    The same president who supported a health care bill that would take insurance away from 24M+ Americans over ten years and give the rich a $200K tax break?

  42. So he's Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So he's Obama. Clearly, that will make him great.

    Oh wait, he's a white guy, not black, and he made a bunch of money building things, instead of living in a fancy house off government grants. (yes, that's what a community organizer does). They were both populist democrats (look at trump's history. He was a democrat until he picked a republican flag of convenience). He's shat on the constitution with the exact same tools that Obama demonstrated.

    The only difference is that his rabble is rural poor shitheads instead of urban middle class shitheads.

    1. Re:So he's Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and he made a bunch of money building thing, instead of living in a fancy house off government grants.

      Actually, no, Trump made a lot of money screwing other people, and yes, taking government money too.

      See Trump University. Scam-job. See the recent claim against him for not paying for painting. See the numerous claims about him taking money from others.

      The fact is, he's a con-artist, and that's been known for decades.

    2. Re:So he's Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no, Trump made a lot of money screwing other people, and yes, taking government money too.

      Make up your mind: does he have experience as a politician or not?

    3. Re:So he's Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you retarded?

    4. Re:So he's Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no, Trump made a lot of money screwing other people, and yes, taking government money too.

      Make up your mind: does he have experience as a politician or not?

      Nobody said he was inexperienced with politicians, he's good at getting handouts.

  43. do an HB1 visa auction! by kiviQr · · Score: 2

    Do an auction - companies file for applicants, minimum wage is average salary + 10% within given region (and they must work within region), then allow them to bid. Create a race to the top (not bottom) and take 5% cut to support social security. Solved!

  44. #hypocrisy by Fuzi719 · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile: http://thehill.com/homenews/ne... And: http://www.foxnews.com/food-dr... But, I guess that's ok because #hypocrisy

  45. Which ones ran on the platform "MAGA"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the beta-carotene cucklord gave fuck all information about his proposals beyond "make america great again" and "it'll be a yuge wall, a bootyful wall" and "it'll make your head spin", we have to take him at his word, and he will be making america great again here. None of the others did that, the closes they got to was making some policy statments and claim they would make america richer or more powerful etc.

    Tinyhands just said "make america great again".

    Especially since after he'd said he'd be so busy fixing things that, unlike Obama, he'd not have time to go golfing, therefore indicating that he's already done all the work needed to maga the shit out of his office. Given he's gone golfing more than once a week so far....

  46. Typo by bluegutang · · Score: 1

    > The administration official sad

    Final proof that Slashdot editors intentionally introduce typos into the summary to spur people to comment more. Sad!

    1. Re:Typo by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Make slashdot ++ great again.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  47. Cautiously Hopeful by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

    The H1B program has been abused for years, and almost any improvement is welcome.

    Given the disastrous Executive Orders and ACA reform, however, I am not going to get excited just yet.

    I want to see a final draft with commentary by experts---probably labor lawyers---before I take this effort seriously.

    --

    ---
    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
  48. Bad News For You Know Who by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Timmy McTimmerFace Cook and Zuckie McZuckFace Zuckerberg are the biggest losers, behind Infosys an the other slave factories on the South Bay.

    Jajajajajajajaja
     

  49. American's are not exceptional by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I want to agree with this statement (assuming "China or Russia" can be replaced with a generic "overseas"), but my experience tells me otherwise.

    Only because you aren't comparing things from the right perspective. You are thinking about a few malfunctioning teams. But think of it this way. That smartphone you have in your pocket was built by some very bright and capable Chinese engineers. Russia has a space program that arguably exceeds ours in many ways. To pretend that none of them are any good at coding because you've seen a few who didn't have what it takes is not a logical position to hold.

    The immigrants I've worked with, while nice (very much so), and knowledgeable in very specific technology, have no broad critical thinking skills, software design/architecture skills, or outside-the-box thinking.

    And some immigrants are guys like Elon Musk. There is a range just like with every population including Americans. Substitute "americans" for immigrants in your sentance and I could say exactly the same thing in many cases. The notion that Americans are better or smarter is just xenophobic nonsense easily refuted. There are and awful lot of very smart guys from China and India and elsewhere. The US is 5% of the global population so the notion that we have some sort of monopoly on smarts is dangerously foolish. There are plenty of people overseas (many educated here) who are every bit as good at engineering and programming as anyone here in the US. We should be trying to bring those smart people here as fast as we possibly can.

    I want the H-1B visas overhauled not only to ensure America jobs stay American, but also so these immigrants aren't exploited.

    The flaw in your reasoning is in assuming there is such a thing as an "American job". Americans have earned one of the highest standards of living in the world by out competing workers and companies in other countries. But that doesn't mean we get to stop competing. If we want to stay on top we're going to have to work our ass off to stay there.

    It's like the idiotic Trump rhetoric about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US. Those jobs left because US labor was too expensive. The only way we are getting labor intensive manufacturing jobs back in the US is for US wages to fall substantially relative to other countries. Do you really want a bunch of $2/hour jobs or should we focus our energies on trying to do something more economically reasonable?

    1. Re:American's are not exceptional by GrooveNeedle · · Score: 1

      I think I wasn't being clear in my original post, it happens.

      I know there are people in other countries that are fantastically smart, definitely smarter than me. My issue isn't with smart immigrants. My issue is with the system that isn't bringing a ton of those smart people here, but instead bringing people with limited training, fake resumes (provided by the "body shop", I don't want to imply the immigrants are complicit), and low skills and then selling them as geniuses. I use to be told by people that since I was working with Indians, I must be on a very good team since they are so good with technology. They aren't... at least not any more than any other person. Entrepreneurs in India just figured out a way to game the system, coupled with entrepreneurs in the US.

      And you're correct, American jobs aren't truly American, they should go to whoever has the proper merits to earn the position. Any job anywhere should.

      However, I'm not competing against smart immigrants. I'm competing against falsified credentials/experience that come with a bargain of a significantly lower salary than I do. At that point, I lose, the client loses, and the immigrant loses as well... the only ones winning are the "body shops" for abusing the system and blatantly lying.

    2. Re:American's are not exceptional by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      The people in China and Russia and India and wherever-the-fuck who are any good at what they do aren't even remotely involved with H-1B. They laugh in the face of H-1B. They are paid more by their sovreign states than any American company would ever shell out for an H-1B applicant.

      Hence his example is very much valid, as these incompetents represent the majority of H-1B holders. Not those Chinese smartphone engineers. I don't even see why you have to pull them into the argument.

      H-1B is a poor excuse for importing third world trash. American trash is so much better.

  50. Kill it at the source by Rastl · · Score: 2

    The source of this is body shops. They're the ones paying $35k and charging $80k pocketing the difference.

    Instead of that let them get paid 1% of the take home salary of the visa holders. Maybe 2% if we're feeling generous. When they start making $350 - $700 per person per year then the business isn't sustainable and the problem diminishes significantly.

    So what about that $45k difference? Where does that go? Good question. I'd say it goes into job training programs and scholarships.

    I know. I'm a dreamer. But the problem lies with how profitable it is for companies to bring in these indentured servants. There needs to be a way to take away the profit so they move on to some other leech business model.

    1. Re:Kill it at the source by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Interesting insight. It's the profit motive that drives these body shops. Cut that off at the source, as you say, and they have no incentive to cheat.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:Kill it at the source by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      I'm a cynic. That $45k will go to the military. And pork.

  51. Budget? by spongman · · Score: 1

    Ok, so if the h1b quota stays the same, and the h1b salaries increase, then that implies that US citizens' salaries will decrease.

    Is that the message he's sending?

  52. Re:A great man take no days off or pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump is not a good man, he is a vile ignorant lying bufoon, much like you APK.

  53. Scam, etc by LesserWeevil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The existing H1-B visa system is a cross between a bad joke, an outright scam and a tragedy. Truly exceptional foreign applicants get tossed into the mix with diploma-mill exhaust and are less likely to make it to the US under the existing system. Likewise, US workers are likely to get replaced with *much* less qualified H-1B visa holders under the current system and enforcement attitude. Glaringly overdue for a reset, the current system only exists because of a few US and Indian tech companies throw lobbying $$ at D.C. Enough already.

  54. H-1B visa overhaul...now available by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Finally US citizens will be able to apply for the visa. This will allow them to negotiate rock bottom salaries.

  55. Re:Pay the going market pay rate, or go out busine by green1 · · Score: 3

    It's not that simple. There aren't "two classes" of H-1Bs, they're all the same, there are just honest companies, and dishonest ones. There is no way to kill one of those without harming the other. In fact, the more you try to crack down on the dishonest ones, the more you hurt the honest ones, while the cheaters just find new ways to cheat.

    Now stepping up enforcement is probably warranted, but it's not as easy as it sounds, and changing the rules doesn't necessarily accomplish what you think it will.

    As for the Canadian equivalent, that would be the TFW program, which has been equally abused, but equally essential to some companies' survival.

    Crafting rules that allow companies to fill legitimate vacancies they can't fill otherwise, while not allowing companies to simply undercut the local labour market, is no easy task.

    There are a few suggestions I've seen that would help though:
    - Mandate a certain % that you must pay over the going market rate for the job (still very hard to enforce as proving the market rate for any exact job is tough)
    - Allow the foreign worker control of their visa, if they leave the employ of one employer, they have a grace period to find similar work at another employer before they must leave the country. This would address the issue of companies bringing in people that won't rock the boat for fear of being shipped home, and give those workers similar power to domestic workers to stand up for themselves, removing an incentive to game the system to get them. A similar effect could be achieved by replacing temporary workers with permanent ones. If we really have a skills shortage in a specific area, what's wrong with looking for actual immigrants with those skills? (not temporary ones that can be sent home at a whim)

  56. Re:Pay the going market pay rate, or go out busine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you can't pay the going rate for the worker you need, you business plan doesn't hold the road. I believe in corporate natural selection: your company should Die-off! and be replaced by one with a valid business model that can pay your country's citizen at a valid going pay rate, plain and simple.

    You realize that philosophy goes both ways, right?

    If you want more pay than the going rate, your career plan doesn't hold the road. Worker natural selection: your job should die off and be replaced by a cheaper worker that will accept the going rate.

    That's extremist too, but in between these two extremes, is where you actually find the market equilibrium, and how much a job should really pay. You should have both companies and workers occasionally failing, raising their offers or lowering their requirements to try to avoid failure. Companies should be competing with other companies for employees, and workers should be competing with other workers for employers.

  57. that is why the H1-B min wage needs to go up and by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    that is why the H1-B minwage needs to go up and / or have no staffing firms and the works must be W2 workers.

  58. Dumb question: why not green cards for US PhDs? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    A lot of this is because we allow tech firms to drive down costs by importing cheaper labor.

    Why not just get real and allow anyone with a PhD from a US top 50 university to get a green card? We already know they have skills, we already know they can speak English.

    Just saying.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Dumb question: why not green cards for US PhDs? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      ..anyone with a PhD from a US top 50 university..

      We already know they are deep in debt....

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    2. Re:Dumb question: why not green cards for US PhDs? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      ..anyone with a PhD from a US top 50 university..

      We already know they are deep in debt....

      There, that should drive prices down.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  59. The work needs done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the people can't move here, the work will move to them.

  60. Internships and open source contributions by jopsen · · Score: 2

    And how are computer science students supposed to get work experience if no one wants to hire them?

    Internships and open source contributions...

    Seriously, there is no excuse for lack of experience. There is lots of opportunities to make high impact contributions to reputable open source projects.
    I didn't say it wasn't hard work, but the opportunities are there... And internships are widely available in the US, sure there is competition, but many of the good internships are well paid too.

    I wonder if putting an Indian name on my job applications would have helped.

    Try it, I bet it won't help... You can also try attaching a fake picture why not...
    Multiple studies have found that using a foreign name or attaching non-white pictures is a huge disadvantage.
    If you don't believe that I see absolutely no harm in trying, hehe, for real though try it if you don't believe the studies.

    1. Re:Internships and open source contributions by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Internships and open source contributions..

      I could not find any internships and I looked. For years. And if there were open source projects in the late 80s to early 90s I didn't know about them. I had code to show, but no one was interested in looking at it.

      Does open source really work as a substitute for paid work experience now? If so that is a huge advantage compared to my era. The problem was that most companies weren't really interested in new graduates whether it was a paid position or not. At least as far as I could see. Based on my observation there was just no reason for them to bother with recent graduates when there were so many people who had or at least claimed ot have experience relevant to the job. Why should they bother?

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    2. Re:Internships and open source contributions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My general feeling from your post sounds like you tried to do everything related to your job search on your own, which is a mistake. You really want to:

      1) Avail yourself of the resources available at your school: Career office, career fairs, job posting bulletin boards, etc. If your school didn't have these, it was a crappy school.
      2) Build as large a professional network as you can. Make friends with your classmates. Attend local enthusiast groups and talk to people. After you graduate, keep track and in touch with your classmates.

      Also, don't wait until you graduate. Companies are wary of hiring interns who have graduated. The customary thing is to work as a summer intern or do a co-op semester for credit.

      And yes, things have changed since the 80's and 90's. It's not uncommon for people to include a github or equivalent profile link in their resume. I find it useful not as a replacement for job experience, but as a better method to demonstrate not only coding ability, but also the ability to communicate and work with others through discussions in pull request and issue logs.

  61. teehee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ok so now you have all these jobs americanized....meaning thing swill cost more....NOW you screw trade with canada the 7-8th largest economy and think you will get more jobs .....my bet is we just shut our border and go deal with europe ( now that we have free trade with them ) asia ( deal with china already ) and if you push to hard i can see lifting russian and syrian sanctions and doing trade with russia....

    GO AMERICA lets make CANADA GREAT AGAIN DOWN WITH NAFTA

  62. Re:Yes!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They never really had it to begin with, as they were on the dole.

  63. Re:Yes!!! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    They never really had it to begin with, as they were on the dole.

    The Medicare expansion was only one-half of ObamaCare. Since this wasn't a single-payer option, not everyone got covered via Medicare.

  64. The Tautological President by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 3

    President Trump has made a habit of signing executive orders which say we will do what we are doing.

    And that's all the latest executive order does. It literally doesn't change anything. It simply says we will do what we've been doing.

    And, really, that's all the president can do except veto things. Mr. Trump shouldn't even be able to order acts of war without prior approval of congress. It's one thing to attack terrorists (for which president's have some approval). It's illegal and unconstitutional to attack the legitimate military forces of sovereign nations without explicit approval by congress.

    When are people going to catch on to the fact that Mr. Trump isn't really achieving *anything* with most of his executive orders except publicity? He's dependent on congress to budget money and to change laws.

    And since his government is still largely unstaffed after nearly 90 days in office, he lacks the people to implement his policies. There is a serious disconnect between the presidency and the departments right now created by thousands of unfilled upper level positions.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:The Tautological President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's one thing to attack terrorists (for which president's have some approval)

      You think there's a standing definition? How stupid are you? Don't answer that, it will come out sounding dumb.
      All US military action is substantially arbitrary since before Nixon invented the "Police Action".

  65. Cautiously Optimistic by The+Raven · · Score: 1

    While few things that Trump has done so far has inspired any confidence in me, this is one change I'm glad of. H1-B immigrants are the modern version of indentured slaves, and I'll be glad when the process is revamped or replaced.

    Now, I would prefer that it was replaced with relaxed immigration controls allowing more new blood to legally join our nation... we are a country if immigrants (barring the sadly marginal population of native indians), and I think it is short-sighted of us to assume that a native-born american is somehow superior to a foreigner who upended their entire life to take a risk in a new land. Immigrants have historically been more successful at creating new businesses than native born, because they have already self-selected to be risk takers.

    But baby steps. Removing the downward wage-pressure of a large population of indentured slaves is a good start. If I get few nice things from this idiotic presidency I'll be pleasantly surprised.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
  66. Re:Yes!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am speaking about the middle class subsidies. Here's a novel idea. Pay your doctor.

  67. Re:Yes!!! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I am speaking about the middle class subsidies. Here's a novel idea. Pay your doctor.

    I don't qualify for subsidies because I make too much ($50K+ per year). So, yes, I have to pay my doctor in cash.

  68. I'm calling it now by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    He's switched sides on tons of other key issues (Syria anyone?). CNBC is saying he's gonna switch ("might" in journalist speak pretty much means "will", they're kinda like scientists in that regard).

    So far everything he's done has been to enrich himself and his immediate family. He'll throw in for TPP and use the same tired excuse that failing to do so give China an edge (and maybe say he'll negotiate a better deal to boot). Yeah, TPP is bad for the American worker but it's _great_ for the American Economy. And that's what Trump (and the corporate Dems who pushed it) care about. After all, it'll trickle down, right?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  69. Too Little, too late by PatSand · · Score: 2
    Most big companies have already set up foreign subsidiaries that offshore the work from the US. So the H1B program is a red herring. Having business penalized for pushing work overseas for domestic use should be the focus of such efforts. This is not only true in manufacturing, but IT, finance, radiology (yes...your x-rays are read in India when at the ER at 3 AM), and even legal services. The only things that can't be outsourced are service industries that are face-to-face like plumbers, electricians, servers, etc.

    For the record, I am an IT professional with 40 years of IT experience in a wide range of fields and I am living in constant fear of losing my job to somebody overseas.

    --
    Supreme Granter of Doctor of Obviology Letters ("A FIRM Command of the Obvious")
  70. Note that half of the replies on here... by Nicolas+Cage · · Score: 0

    ...have nothing to do with H-1Bs. Naturally, certain people are never going to give Trump credit for anything (even something like this, which should have unanimous support on a site like Slashdot), but they know better than to take the other side on this particular issue, too. So why post at all? You know, no one's forcing you to chime in on this. You don't actually have to post in every Trump-related thread. When he does something good you could simply not say anything and save your righteous indignation for one of his screw-ups. Maybe people won't get tired of your message as quick that way, and they'll actually feel like listening to you those other times. Just saying. Web 2.0/social media has conditioned people into believing that they need to have their digital mouths open at all times. How else will people know you exist unless you're constantly saying SOMETHING? You wouldn't think that would apply to a site like this, but it sure does, at least since the last election. To borrow one of The Donald's favorite phrases... "Sad!"

  71. Re:Pay the going market pay rate, or go out busine by nedlohs · · Score: 1

    It's the most simple problem America has to fix.

    Remove the random selection component. Grant the places to the those offering the highest salaries - that is the capitalist way of allocating resources, after all, those willing to pay the most for them get to use them.

    There are X places. Companies can ask for as many places as they want, but must specify the minimum salary they will pay to the person who fills the position. The highest X get the places. That the promised salaries are met by the actual salaries is checked at intervals.

    Simple. No need for the government to decide which categories of workers are required - the market will sort it out.

    Republicans should love it. The government still decides the value of X, so Democrats can be happy too.

  72. And bowing to a Muslim chief of state!? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    And, frankly, he's no more of an embarrassment than Obama was ...

    At least we know that he's not a (knowledgeable about the religion) Muslim.

    He bowed to a Muslim head of state. There was some flap in the US media about that, but they missed a big point: That was literal blasphemy. Muslims don't bow to heads of state - or anyone else but God.

    It was a very good thing he had diplomatic immunity. An ordinary person doing that in a country with a sharia-based legal system could have been in serious trouble.

    (By the way: Citizens of a republic also don't bow to heads of state, according to diplomatic protocol. In a republic we're ALL (at least all that are elegible to vote) sovereigns, and thus formally peers with kings and queens. The President is just the guy holding a particular job - which is why he's addressed as "Mr. President".)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  73. Re:Pay the going market pay rate, or go out busine by green1 · · Score: 1

    Two issues. First of all, who determines "X"? If it's too low, businesses who need the workers are screwed, and if it's too high, those who exploit the system aren't hindered. Secondly the salary level doesn't necessarily equate to the job scarcity once you take skill level in to account. Imagine a job that normally pays $150,000, the company decides to get an H-1B to fill it and lay off the existing worker, post it at $100,000 to save money, they still get the foreign worker over the company that has a job that normally pays $50,000, but still can't find anyone to hire at $75,000 due to a lack of enough domestic workers with the right qualifications.

  74. Making America the Greaterest again! by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Only hours after the announcement, corporations all over America started hiring lawyers to find new loopholes in the law.

    See? Trump is already creating more American jobs!

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  75. Worse than that: The body shops lie. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    A degree from India is absolutely meaningless. They have a "university" practically on every street corner ...

    Worse than that: The body shops often claim the worker in question has degrees that they don't actually have - but which the employer requires.

    = = = =

    Back before things got egregious, more than a decade ago, my wife was involved in making a hiring decision, and one of the candidates was an H1-B. My wife asked her about the masters degree on her resume and she was appalled: She had no such degree, (nor a CS bachelors - just some classes in the field.) She risked her immigration status rather than be party to the fraud.

    (My wife hired her: She had adequate skills for the position and had demonstrated her honesty.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  76. I am one of the displaced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Four years ago I received a surprising call from my manager's manager: I was being fired immediately. After 20 years on the job with nothing but glowing annual reviews and a measurable profitiabity track record, I asked why. "We just have to do it. We can't afford you when talented people will work for half as much salary." "Really? Who are these talented people?" I soon found out, when a stream of Asian and Indian H1B workers arrived, taking over our desks and labs. Literally every technical person in our division had been fired. In the preceding weeks management had been "documenting procedures" under the guise of an ISO 9000 certification. The truth was that we were being replaced and they needed the docs for our replacements.

    I've since heard of many other abuses of the H1B system, which seems to have peaked under the Obama administration, but actually started much earlier. Hopefully this EO will take the covers off the seriously mismanaged H1B job drain.

  77. You're sayin' he's gonna copy Obama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obama famously spent nearly a TRILLION on "shovel ready jobs" only to laugh about it years later and say "there's no such thing as shovel ready jobs" when asked about the lack of results. Go look for the video on Youtube, and then weep at the thought that you will be paying taxes for the rest of your life to pay the interest on the 10 TRILLION dollars Obama added to the national debt.

  78. Proof the entire H1-B thing is a scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consider:

    Supporters of H1-B visas claim that they need to import special workers from the rest of the world that have skills Americans lack and will do jobs Americans will not do. Here's the problems that disprove the entire argument:

    1. If something is so rare and special that you must search the entire world for it and specially import it, then it demands a high price (rarity + law of supply and demand = high price). The majority of H1-B workers are, however, not paid above the prevailing wage in their fields.

    2. Most small startups lack the time, money, and paper-pusher employees to handle the bureaucratic rules to bring in H1-B visa workers, therefore the vast majority are going to big established employers filling existing jobs rather than to unique talented people who are key workers in small shops.

    3. Most H1-B workers are imported to fill positions previously held by US citizens, therefore by definition they are taking jobs Americans ARE willing to do - and often they are imported while Americans are actually holding those jobs.

    4. A shocking number of American workers have been forced to train their H1-B replacements. This very fact however proves that the imported worker was LESS qualified to do the job than the more-qualified American who the company admits is better qualified by the very act of requiring the training.

  79. better fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simple: Death penalty if you import an H1-B worker and ANY American can prove that he/she could do the job.

    Bogus "requirements" which are just there to help the employer pretend something exotic is required should not count. Any company that wants a bunch of workers from India and therefore specifies experience only likely to come from India, but which actually will never need those capabilities, should not be able to get away with the fake requirements. The argument should be about ABILITY TO DO THE JOB, and if an American CAN then no visa should issue and anybody who certified that no American could should be snuffed.

    Within 6 months of the policy change, nobody would apply for H1-B visa workers. Economic treason that weakens the nation is no less serious than diplomatic or military acts of treason.

  80. "reformed" capitalism apparently now includes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    an escape clause that says "when rich employers want to get richer and normal market forces would cause wages to rise, run away to a communist county for cheap labor."

    This improves the whole model (in the minds of Wall St investors and CEOs doing IPOs) by making the supply-demand equation one-directional and making it a win-win equation for the fabulously wealthy who raise prices on the products they sell when the products are in short supply but never see wages they pay raise when the labor they must buy is in short supply.

  81. WIndow Dressing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is just window dressing. The existing regulations already prohibit the abuses currently taking place. The problem is a lack of enforcement.

    If the government just performed a thorough audit of the likes of Infosys, Tata, Wipro, etc. they'd uncover the way these companies are gaming the system and they'd be able to shut it down. Unfortunately, since the politicians receive ass tons of money from these companies, that will never happen.

    This latest regulation/order won't have any meaningful effect on the U.S. tech labor market.

  82. make SOME things great again by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    You have a really low standard for "great" apparently [MAGA]

    I don't like him outside of entertainment, and didn't vote for him.

    However, give him credit for occasional good he does. Reward good behavior and dissuade bad behavior.

  83. No I don't do that impersonator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No I don't do that impersonator - obviously YOU DO though, projecting it the way a weak weasel like you always does.

    APK

    P.S.=> That IS what "your kind" (inferior fuckups) do all your life literally & figureatively... apk

  84. At HIS own resort? "Yea, right" lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Citation/Proof? Not that it matter - He deserves vacation not taking presidential pay and bringing back many times more real jobs than Obama ever did in a far shorter timeframe also. Obama kept getting us in debt and war. Trump stopped WWIII with Korea instead. You SJW's always talk 'freedom of speech' and yet you down moderate anything that doesn't fit YOUR agendas. How transparent. Is that your favorite color? You're the WORST ABUSERS of free speech there is hypocrites. Now, go eat your welfare food us taxpayers pay for and stfu!

    APK

    P.S.=> Show me Obama brought back Intel, Carrier, Ford, GM, Lockheed (some before he was elected), IBM, Amazon (both adding jobs) & that's not even touching the entire list of GOOD paying jobs w/ DISPOSABLE INCOME (not part time no insurance minimum wage service industry only 'jobs' (slavery))... apk

  85. SJW "ne'er-do-well": You've done better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine. Your software is well written, functional. The Host File Engine performs exactly as promised by mmell

    his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant

    his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg

    I've never tried to belittle (APK's) work, I've flat out said it's good by BronsCon

    take a look at the APK hosts file engine by SuperKendall

    APK is kinda right. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works by bmo

    I like your host file system by Karmashock

    I find your hosts file admirable by vel-ex-tech

    * My code's liked + recommended & hosted by Malwarebytes' hpHosts!

    APK

    P.S.=> See subject UNIDENTIFIABLE sjw "ne'er-do-well" - let's see YOU do the above ("ain't happenin'")... apk

  86. Seriously, this is so needed... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    Even the high profile Disney case, which was a blatant violation of the law, was simply dismissed by the judge. The argument, made by the judge was a ludicrous mis-interpretation. Oh, your jobs were harmed, but no jobs of the contracting firm were harmed. So no case....WTF.

    Disney should of been fined $1 billion dollars for that violation.