While I feel for him, this endless sniping at Linux just ends up making him look like a bit of a jerk.
That's because he is quite a bit of a jerk. Now if only there was a true replacement for GCC under FreeBSD...*sigh*
tell your users to install the JRE version x.x from www.java.com
You're joking, right? Please tell me your joking.
No, actually I'm not joking, Installing a JRE is very simple...done it many times. I'm not seeing where the trouble with that is. Odds are good many people already have one on their computer to view Java Applets in their favorite web browser.
Swing does not fit in perfectly by any means. Even someone who knows nothing about computers can tell you it looks different and feels different.
That's why Swing includes the "Native" look and feel, which does, in fact, look and feel Native. Yes, default Swing doesn't fit in to any system, but Native certainly does. Also, how is that different from the widget set of OpenOffice.org or MS-Office, etc.?
You don't even need an InstallShield wizard for apps written in C++, all you need is a.zip with the app and the DLLs. You don't even need that if you link statically, all you need in that case is an.exe! There's no comparison with the chore of making sure a JRE is installed, that it is a new enough version, and that your app can find the java vm and all it's libraries.
Well to achieve the same thing with Java you just need to distribute a.jar file and tell your users to install the JRE version x.x from www.java.com
Not MUCH harder, now is it?
The problem with just packaging your program as just a.zip or an.exe (in the case of C++ programs) is that it doesn't integrate into the system...user's typically expect an installer, uninstaller, menu entries, and posibly even the option to create a desktop shortcut at install time. Manually creating these entries is trivial, but most users don't expect to actually have to do it themselves.
The "portability concerns" you mention are really quite minor, have you ever attempted to write a semi-complex cross-platform piece of software that strayed beyond the Standard C and C++ libraries? Also, Python is just as much of a pain to integrate into your system if you must also deploy on windows...users have to install Python, and if you use any non-standard Python modules, you're stuck with a reallly ugly mess. Java includes a lot of nice things by default that are at best afterthought add-ons in other portable programming languages.
Also, with Swing, you can make your app fit in perfectly with the underlying OS, also with today's fast computer systems and continued improvements in JIT technologies, Java really isn't bad performance-wise, and only stands to improve as time progresses.
As far as apps I like that are written in Java? I could list dozens of websites, limewire, Eclipse, Ant, JavaCC
Even with traditional cross-platform approaches, you are still left with the task of handling dependencies and integrating into the system. How is integrating your Java app into the system any different than making an InstallShield wizard for your C++ app on windows?
The allure of Java for me is simplified development of the actual application. Sure, installation concerns are still there, but how does that differ from C++?
The problem is, this ain't gonna be cheap, especially if you buy one of the enterprise Linux's mentioned.
Novell's got to make it extremely convenient for their existing sysadmins and Linux/UNIX sysadmin's too. Unless Novell does something miraculous, both groups will need to be retrained for this product. Novell admins will have to learn Linux and Linux admins will have to learn Novell.
The Linux admins are going to scream why should I learn Novell when i can use NFS/NIS/LPD or Samba and Novell admins are going to scream why should I learn Linux when i can just use Netware.
Sounds great, but they're gonna need to overcome one of their traditional weeknesses - MARKETING!
When will they support NTLM on Linux? That's one of the few reasons I still have to dual boot. (A web site required for my job uses NTLM authentication.)
I would think it would be possible using part of Samba. Am I mistaken about this?
ummm actually there is color support in the BSD ls program...i think the switch is -G or something like that...and the BSD stuff is just cleaner...if it works on BSD it'll work on Linux 90% of the time...not so the other way around
It's a good thing that most of their stuff seems to be getting branded HP instead of Compaq...I've always found HP products to be of higher quality than the "equivalent" Compaq product. Both in terms of reliability and longevity. HP makes damn fine printers...and among the big guys, their desktop machines aren't too shoddy either.
there is not a mainstream OS out there that doesn't ship with a browser in it's default configuration...mainstream linux distros included...be reasonable...today a browser is an essential part of an OS because it is an essential everyday tool
As long as he doesn't leave FreeBSD i'll be happy...he's done a lot of great work for it...he practically invented Ports...which is an incredible system
Slashdot Mirror
I know!!! and you'd think raising the prices would help the cause too!
SCO sues the RIAA for stealing their business model
It Came From the Cellular Swamp
Why Fie?
I have 127.0.0.1 I'd be happy to donate to the cause!
I'll send it to your IP address...errrr, ummm, shoot
While I feel for him, this endless sniping at Linux just ends up making him look like a bit of a jerk.
That's because he is quite a bit of a jerk. Now if only there was a true replacement for GCC under FreeBSD...*sigh*
That's right, buy your Cowboy Neal bonds right now!!!
Hurry, supplies are limited! Shipping and handling not included, some assembly may be required , always drink responsibly.
Re-write the cell-phone numbers in Java...dial once, talk anywhere or something like that, isn't that why they're putting Java on all the phones?
I don't know about the rest of you guys...but I'm downloading the HURD right now just to be safe!
RMS SCO FUD!!! Meltdown meltdown!!!
tell your users to install the JRE version x.x from www.java.com
You're joking, right? Please tell me your joking.
No, actually I'm not joking, Installing a JRE is very simple...done it many times. I'm not seeing where the trouble with that is. Odds are good many people already have one on their computer to view Java Applets in their favorite web browser.
I happen to like the refined flavor of potted meat
Swing does not fit in perfectly by any means. Even someone who knows nothing about computers can tell you it looks different and feels different. That's why Swing includes the "Native" look and feel, which does, in fact, look and feel Native. Yes, default Swing doesn't fit in to any system, but Native certainly does. Also, how is that different from the widget set of OpenOffice.org or MS-Office, etc.? You don't even need an InstallShield wizard for apps written in C++, all you need is a .zip with the app and the DLLs. You don't even need that if you link statically, all you need in that case is an .exe! There's no comparison with the chore of making sure a JRE is installed, that it is a new enough version, and that your app can find the java vm and all it's libraries.
Well to achieve the same thing with Java you just need to distribute a .jar file and tell your users to install the JRE version x.x from www.java.com
Not MUCH harder, now is it?
The problem with just packaging your program as just a .zip or an .exe (in the case of C++ programs) is that it doesn't integrate into the system...user's typically expect an installer, uninstaller, menu entries, and posibly even the option to create a desktop shortcut at install time. Manually creating these entries is trivial, but most users don't expect to actually have to do it themselves.
The "portability concerns" you mention are really quite minor, have you ever attempted to write a semi-complex cross-platform piece of software that strayed beyond the Standard C and C++ libraries? Also, Python is just as much of a pain to integrate into your system if you must also deploy on windows...users have to install Python, and if you use any non-standard Python modules, you're stuck with a reallly ugly mess. Java includes a lot of nice things by default that are at best afterthought add-ons in other portable programming languages. Also, with Swing, you can make your app fit in perfectly with the underlying OS, also with today's fast computer systems and continued improvements in JIT technologies, Java really isn't bad performance-wise, and only stands to improve as time progresses. As far as apps I like that are written in Java? I could list dozens of websites, limewire, Eclipse, Ant, JavaCC Even with traditional cross-platform approaches, you are still left with the task of handling dependencies and integrating into the system. How is integrating your Java app into the system any different than making an InstallShield wizard for your C++ app on windows? The allure of Java for me is simplified development of the actual application. Sure, installation concerns are still there, but how does that differ from C++?
SCO sues Microsoft because the X-Box is "capable of illegally running SCO IP"
The problem is, this ain't gonna be cheap, especially if you buy one of the enterprise Linux's mentioned. Novell's got to make it extremely convenient for their existing sysadmins and Linux/UNIX sysadmin's too. Unless Novell does something miraculous, both groups will need to be retrained for this product. Novell admins will have to learn Linux and Linux admins will have to learn Novell. The Linux admins are going to scream why should I learn Novell when i can use NFS/NIS/LPD or Samba and Novell admins are going to scream why should I learn Linux when i can just use Netware. Sounds great, but they're gonna need to overcome one of their traditional weeknesses - MARKETING!
When will they support NTLM on Linux? That's one of the few reasons I still have to dual boot. (A web site required for my job uses NTLM authentication.)
I would think it would be possible using part of Samba. Am I mistaken about this?
security and privacy were fun while they lasted...this freakin single-sign-on crap scares me just a lil
so if it's not GPL it's crap?
great logic there
yeah boy is FreeBSD a stinking pile of crap, huh? and apache...man that thing sucks too doesn't it
at least they have the guts to give away the source...that sure as hell is better than nothing
ummm actually there is color support in the BSD ls program...i think the switch is -G or something like that...and the BSD stuff is just cleaner...if it works on BSD it'll work on Linux 90% of the time...not so the other way around
It's a good thing that most of their stuff seems to be getting branded HP instead of Compaq...I've always found HP products to be of higher quality than the "equivalent" Compaq product. Both in terms of reliability and longevity. HP makes damn fine printers...and among the big guys, their desktop machines aren't too shoddy either.
there is not a mainstream OS out there that doesn't ship with a browser in it's default configuration...mainstream linux distros included...be reasonable...today a browser is an essential part of an OS because it is an essential everyday tool
As long as he doesn't leave FreeBSD i'll be happy...he's done a lot of great work for it...he practically invented Ports...which is an incredible system
How is Python an alternative to the STL?
more flame fuel...forget vi vs. Emacs and Gnome vs. KDE...now we've got Hancom vs. Star/OpenOffice vs. KOffice vs...
You would have to embed KDE and GNOME into Emacs because Emacs is an OS that just happens to edit text