GNU/Linux bootable CD on XBOX: dyne:bolic

jaromil writes "The dyne:bolic bootable CD distribution is almost getting to its final 1.0 release, includes a whole bunch of multimedia applications making it easy to edit and stream audio and video, encrypt mails, share p2p and of course play games, all with a fancy GNUStep desktop. download the 1.0 alpha 5 ISO (~350Mb) and try it on your PC or XBOX!" One more reason to mod an xbox.

Comments

best of both worlds?

[sweeney37]

would this work with the 007 Hack?

Mike

Re:best of both worlds?

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I like CD based Knoppix available at Knoppix.org or its variant clusterKnoppix. ...Yes, it is fun to run your own clustering supercomputer with multiple clusterKnoppix machines on a LAN!... Thank you, Moshe Barr (MOSIX) for the seamless clustering...

I digress, both Knoppixes are clean and most usable from a Windows standpoint. Except for the availablity of full MS Office compatibility, they would make an excellent replacement for Windows.

I will try this version of Linux to see how it works out. Though they are probably slashdotted at the moment. Does this Linux have clustering (MOSIX)?

Re:best of both worlds?

[rasteri]

Yeah, actually. Just flash the TSOP as described and it should work fine (plus you'll be able to play all other "homebrew" XBOX apps too).

Re:best of both worlds?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how exactly is this relevant to the xbox???

Re:best of both worlds?

[kwerle]

I think the parent poster wants to use the 007 hack WITHOUT any hardware changes. As do I.

I'd like to see one of 2 options for this kind of thing:
1. Tell the system to "boot" from the CD after a brief pause after the game is shut down. Not sure if this is possible.
2. Tell the system where to mount from using an image on the network - TFT, SAMBA, NFS, whatever...

I have yet to see something like that.

Re:best of both worlds?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the parent poster wants to use the 007 hack WITHOUT any hardware changes. As do I.

I'd like to see one of 2 options for this kind of thing:
1. Tell the system to "boot" from the CD after a brief pause after the game is shut down. Not sure if this is possible.
2. Tell the system where to mount from using an image on the network - TFT, SAMBA, NFS, whatever...

I have yet to see something like that.

I think this will work with any cheat that allows you to execute unsigned code (or whatever it is the 007 exploit allows you to do). So as long as you have the proper ISO burned, and you can execute anything you want (I.E. you have already gotten linux to boot) then there shouldn't be any reason why it won't boot up.

FIRST POST!!!!

[AlexMax2742]

Thanks, but I would rather wait until the "Xbox Live 2.0" comes out.

Just in case they figured out how to foil current mod chips this time. I still would prefer to use my Xbox for online gaming *gasp* than as a Linux box.

Re:FIRST POST!!!!

[/ASCII]

Most modern mod-chips come with the option of switching to the original BIOS instead. Microsoft can still check you HDD for strange-looking software, and out of spec HDDs, but the bios mod should be fine.

Re:FIRST POST!!!!

[bjschrock]

You can even "lock" the HDD like the one that came w/ the XBox and hide the extra space. Sure, there are still ways for M$ to detect if you've done something to it; it is their hardware after all. But as always, there will be a way around it... On mine, I have a switch that will either start up the XBox in it's (almost) out-of-the-box mode or modded.

And just IMAGINE

[zedmelon]

It's quite invigorating browsing interactive pr0n with the Xbox controls.

sweeeeeeeeeeet.

Re:And just IMAGINE

[llamalicious]

mmmmmmmm... force feedback /homer

Re:And just IMAGINE

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's quite invigorating browsing interactive pr0n with the Xbox controls."

Especially with the vibrating controllers ;)

Re:And just IMAGINE

[calethix]

"It's quite invigorating browsing interactive pr0n with the Xbox controls"

I saw a gamecube controller at gamestop last night that has a fan/ventilation holes in it to keep your hands cool. You might try finding one for your xbox to keep your hands cool/dry. ;)

Re:And just IMAGINE

[CaptnMArk]

>I saw a gamecube controller at gamestop last night that has a fan/ventilation holes in it to keep your hands cool. You might try finding one for your xbox to keep your hands cool/dry. ;)

Is there one with a header.

I find that after a few hours of quakeing my hands are very cold (especially the mouse hand).

Re:And just IMAGINE

[Jaysyn]

You've got poor circulation man, a heater won't help much.

Jaysyn

To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[HanzoSan]

These new live CDs finally give us the chance to introduce Linux to the masses. Recently I emailed dozens of my friends, and I will attempt to introduce them to Linux in a way thats safe, with these new CDs you dont have to actually install Linux, It also gives us the ability to introduce Linux to the gamers. So the question here is how many of you people have actually used this to show people Linux? I wish we had a Redhat live-CD, or Mandrake because those are my favorite brand, but a Lindows promotion CD(Thats what I will start calling these CDs) should be given away in stores and to college students.

How about a grass roots program? I plan to do something like that. I hope through these new live-CDs that it can act as a type of marketing where people who are interested in Linux can try it without actually installing it. The easy way to get them to try it is to give it to them for their Xbox game console, a Console with no OS such as the Xbox would actually be perfect for the gamer who wants to do more than just play games on their Xbox. I also wonder if something like this could be brought to work or run on computer labs in college campuses, I havent tried it so I dont know. But yes, I have ideas for marketing.

People are going to read this and think i'm some kinda Linux zealot, but the truth is the best thing we can do for the computer industry right now is create competition, Linux is competition, competition fuels growth.

So all who are with me, please post a reply/response about how you plan to actually use these live CDs for marketing purposes, perhaps it would be wise to put these live CDs in some videogame magazine if possible, or even get Linux to run on the PS2.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[the_consumer]

Linux has been available on the PS2 for quite a while now.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[drinkypoo]

Linux for Playstation requires the addition of a hard drive and whatnot, which can not then be used for gaming, and which is not (yet?) upgradable to a larger disk. It's an inanely crippled system. On top of that you don't get to treat VU0 and VU1 as different processors or anything, so you're stuck with a single 300MHz processor, which is way too slow, and 32MB of ram, which is way too little.

By contrast the Xbox may not have a 128 bit processor, but it does have a 733MHz one, and it has 64MB of ram, which is still well on the lean side but more than twice as useful as the 32MB in the PS2. In the $130 price for a used console plus another $30 for a memory card with a serial interface, you can hack that mofo and have what ends up being a much more open system than the PS2. That might not be intentional, but it's still more useful.

The only edge PS2 linux has over Xbox linux is the lack of a need for hacking, but it's still cheaper to buy a hacked Xbox than it is to buy a PS2 with the Linux kit.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but it runs in a VM and requires expensive Sony brand extras . . .

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

I noticed the new LindowsOS 4.0 comes with a "Live CD" to run LindowsOS from the CD.

Frank

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[the_consumer]

Yeah, I know all that. Did you read the comment I was replying to? I'm not advocating anything, just pointing out that Linux for PS2 has been done.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

LiveCDs become more and more widespread, for a lot of possible scenarios. My own effort to this is called jollix

- based on gentoo linux
- kde, wine, some communication & multimedia applications
- network
- 1st release let windows-only users play their HalfLife/Counterstrike HD-installation
It's in an early stage and not well documented yet

Olli

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[dnoyeb]

Perhaps we can mail 1-2 CDs per month to each address in the continental US!

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Otter]

Huh? If you're going to distribute CDs to encourage people to try Linux, why not focus on hardware that has a mature Linux environment, doesn't require mod chips or Goldeneye and is a real computer?

Like, oh, I dunno, computers?

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[X86Daddy]

Here's a good way to have a bootable Linux CD at all times, ready to demo whenever the opportunity shows:

Buy a Bootable Business Card from the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Shop! You get to spread the word of Linux while sending $5 towards a wonderful cause!

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[HanzoSan]

The goal is to build mindshare, you cannot get people to try Linux on their mission critical desktop PCs unless they trust you, truely trust you.

You can however get a stranger to run a CD on their gaming console, people dont have to trust you for that. The goal is to get the average person to know Linux exists, once they know it exists then you can market Linux to these peoples PCs.

Actually I'd do it in this order, consoles, college campuses(laptops), computer labs, and finally desktop PCs.

People after they see others running it on their laptops in class will get jealous and be more likely to try it, people dont mind experimenting on a laptop, most laptop users are the only ones using the laptop, a desktop PC however is mission critical, their whole family might use it, they may not trust you enough to even investigate Linux.

Like I said start small and build up to critical mass before you market it to Desktops.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Dead_Smiley]

"These new live CDs finally give us the chance to introduce Linux to the masses. Recently I emailed dozens of my friends..."

Wow! They must have really big mail boxes! :o)

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[HanzoSan]

Thats nice but I'd prefer a Redhat version. I want something easy to use and configure when I show people Linux or use it myself.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree that this is a good opportunity to help demonstrate Linux, but I am a bit wary of simply shipping people a CD as their first introduction to Linux.

Generally, default distributions (not just Linux) are poorly suited for an introduction: They usually have as many possible applications crammed in with little thought to presentation. This may be great for an experienced user who can quickly cut through the chaff and get at the tools they need, but can thoroughly confuse a new user, making for a very unpleasant first impression.

The idea of a bootable Linux CD for demonstrating the OS is great, but I think that a good demonstration CD is a very different thing than a good "practical" CD. I suspect that the dyne:bolic distribution is in the latter category (but I have not looked at it yet. Anyone actually tried it it yet?).

This is a great idea to introduce Linux to people who are already looking to switch, but I would hold off giving this to someone who is still hooked on another OS, or skeptical about Linux (especially if they fear that Linux is "hard to use".)

First impressions matter.

That being said, this looks like a good starting point for making a Linux presentation CD to seriously start opening peoples eyes to Linux.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[HanzoSan]

uh no, most people have CD burners, for the ones who dont, I'll show them in person.

My point is this makes it much much easier to convert Windows users to Linux, I remember when it would take weeks of debating with them to get them to even try Mandrake.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[powerlinekid]

So what is so wrong with Knoppix? Its much more mature than this distro and runs on regular PCs without affecting the system.

And I think you're order is wrong. I work for a college IT department so I have a decent idea of how this stuff works.Basically if it doesn't look like the computer in their rooms, the students bitch. So you can't just put Linux on the lab machines (no matter how it'll be better in the long run).

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

GoldenEye? What in God's name are you talking about?

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[elodan]

Coupla points.

One, you may already be preaching to the converted (no pun intended), as these live CDs only run on modded X-Boxes, and people who have a modded box are more likely to know about Linux in the first place.

And two, Linux already runs on the PS2. Officially. Supported by Sony.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[HanzoSan]

Thats not true, Millions of people pirated Dreamcast games and PSX games, MILLIONS, and most of these so called hardcore gamers didnt mod these systems themselves, in fact most of these people dont even know how to operate a computer because these guys are gamers, not programmers.

So yes you'd be marketing to a crowd who is open minded to new technology, but I dont think they already know about Linux unless they are the ones modding and cracking the software themselves, most who run a modded system arent.

Linux on Ps2 if its official should be included with the Sony harddrive.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Davez55]

I take it that by saying that you can't access the VUs seperately or suchlike you mean that you can, as shown by the various
Vu programming competitions that they've had, where the gfx demo is run on VU1 only, and the overly large pdfs you get that tell you how to do it (anyone fancy printing out >600 pages?).

The PS2 linux kit is basically a subset of the proper PS2 SDK, and apart from running in a special Sony enviroment you can do pretty much everything (apart from playing too much with the DMAC, but there're people working on that)

The lack of ram is annoying, but it's all 'proper' PS2 games use, and they seem to run well enough to me.....

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

uh no, most people have CD burners, for the ones who dont, I'll show them in person. I think he was trying to suggest that you emailed them the ISO which is a rather large file to be sending by email.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever bother to do even a cursory attempt at research? The only way to get a PS2 harddrive in NTSC right now is from buying the Linux Kit

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[NanoGator]

"These new live CDs finally give us the chance to introduce Linux to the masses."

*Cough*karmawhore*cough*

Sorry, this is not going to get Linux out to the masses.

1.) Playing around with the XBOX on a fuzzy TV is not going to impress people to the point of installing a new OS.

2.) If they've got an XBOX, they're likely a gamer. They're not going to dump Windows for Linux. Bad audience to target.

3.) More people have PCs than XBOXs, so why target a niche product anyway?

" Recently I emailed dozens of my friends, and I will attempt to introduce them to Linux in a way thats safe, with these new CDs you dont have to actually install Linux."

I have a better idea, use Knoppix. (Slashdot also recently had an article about Knoppix MAME which comes with MAME...) You burn an ISO, leave the Knoppix CD you just burned in your drive, reboot computer, wait for a minute and Linux comes up. No fuss. No installation. Completely useful.

Here's the best part: Knoppix can access NTFS. So, the big bonus here is that if anybody ever fries their Windows system, they can just pop this disc in and get back to their files. Heck, if they really feel like tinkering with it, it's like having their workstation on a CD. Bitchin.

"People are going to read this and think i'm some kinda Linux zealot...."

Actually, I was thinking karma whore. ;)

"... or even get Linux to run on the PS2."

It's there, but it's not free.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[drinkypoo]

Well it's my understanding that the vector units are actually complete MIPS cores and that in theory you could develop a version of linux that would do 64 bit SMP on the PS2. That's what I was getting at, sorry. I seem to have a lack of precision lately.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Thing 1]

The goal is to build mindshare, you cannot get people to try Linux on their mission critical desktop PCs unless they trust you, truely trust you.

You can however get a stranger to run a CD on their gaming console, people dont have to trust you for that.

I believe that's why Knoppix was created -- so you could pop in the CD, reboot, and have a Linux desktop to play around with, without having to install/partition/nonsense.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's my understanding that the vector units are actually complete MIPS cores

Your understanding is completely wrong. The VUs are a special DSP chip with a unique two-instruction-at-once set of opcodes. They do not resemble MIPS cores in any way.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Davez55]

As far as I can tell from the documentation here, there're pretty much completely custom chips (they run a completely different assembler to the core, and have various other quirks (double instructions for one)).

The fact that only VU0 is setup as a coprocessor (VU1 is on the bus but you can't easily talk to it at the speed you'd want for a coprocessor, and it only has 32kb or ram, so it needs regular feeding from the main core), means that it was never really designed for it, which is more the design of the console than any flaw in the Linux system they give you.

And in reply to someone above who said that you needed custom Sony bits, you don't actually need them (you can just boot Linux off a memory card using the RTE CD that comes with the kit), but then you only have 8mb of data, which is painfully slow, and no network access or HDD, so the bits that come with the kit are really mandatory for a passably useable system.

While we're here, I'll refrain from plugging my PS2 Quake 2 port, 3 FPS is enough for anyone right?

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

anime is teh s uck.

I disagree

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[countvlad]

Why is this easier than emailing them about, say, knoppix? If I wanted to show one of my friends/family/co-workers/dog linux, I'd hand out Knoppix CD's at my door so they could see what linux can *really* do. Not to mention that most of my family/friends don't have xboxs, but DO have PC's.

You want to market linux games? Try a gentoo-live gaming CD.

If you want linux to be a gaming platform...then that's another story...and another argument for another time.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[drinkypoo]

Well, I would think you should be able to use a USB network adapter... Then you wouldn't need a hard drive. A kernel with kernel-level network autoconfiguration and USB ethernet built into it, or loaded as a module, would let you get going off the memory card and CD, I guess, though I didn't know anything about that functionality.

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Drive-by argument!

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a good way to have a bootable Linux CD at all times, ready to demo whenever the opportunity shows

Do people still end up in this situation? I remember in 1996 it may have come up and peaked someone's interest enough to boot into it to play around, but today? How many people come up to you and ask if you have a bootable Linux CD in your wallet?

Re:To all Linux supporters, This is our chance.

[achurch]

Linux for Playstation requires the addition of a hard drive and whatnot, which can not then be used for gaming

Wrong on the latter. It's not easy, but with a quick kernel patch and an extra computer on the LAN it's doable. Instructions here (Japanese only at the moment, if there's enough demand I'll see about doing an English translation).

Disclaimer: Sony probably wants to shoot me for making it possible.

and in related news...

[bytes256]

SCO sues Microsoft because the X-Box is "capable of illegally running SCO IP"

Re:and in related news...

[ikkonoishi]

They can't Microsoft paid them off already.

Re:and in related news...

[lfourrier]

so what ?

the type of business they are looking for is recuring.

Re:and in related news...

[neodymium]

I thought Microsoft has bought a license from SCO ?

Re:and in related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

SCO sues your mom because she is capable of storing SCO IP.

(her brain, I mean)

Re:and in related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, buddy, let's not get into what I got your mom to do last night..

DVD playback?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there any way to enable DVD playback with this ISO? I only see references to a mp3 player on their site..

I'd really like to use my Xbox as a region free DVD player....two 'League of Gentlemen' DVDs that only get used on my TiPB :-\

Re:DVD playback?

[rasteri]

I'd really like to use my Xbox as a region free DVD player....two 'League of Gentlemen' DVDs that only get used on my TiPB :-\

Just install Xbox Media Player, possibly EvolutionX too.

Re:DVD playback?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent! Thanks for taking the time to post this info!

Re:DVD playback?

[WomensHealth]

Sorry to tell you this, but the Xbox doesn't make that great of a DVD player. I don't know if it's because the particular DVD drive in my unit is crap, but only rarely will it play DVD-R discs that I've recorded (granted, I'm not using top-quality media). After using my Xbox as my primary DVD player for about a year, I finally buckled and purchased a cheap ($60) Apex progressive-scan player that runs circles around my Xbox as a DVD player.
To be fair, my Xbox does just fine with commerically-produced DVDs. And you don't need Xbox media player. The Evolution X dashboard includes region-free playback capability.

Re:DVD playback?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think one's mileage may vary. I've also had problems with mine, both with commercial and custom burned DVDs. It usually took one or two attempts with certain DVDs before it would accept them (Win32 at its best), but it did work.

I'm mainly just concerned about a player that doesn't worry about the region and can get around the PAL/NTSC issue. I actually de-regioned my LoG season 2 DVD (copied to a hard drive), then performed some file hacking to break it out to two DVDs that I could burn. It works but man, what a pain.

If the Apex offers what I need, I may just go that route....but getting more mileage out of my Xbox (I only have Halo and don't play it) would be nice.

only if they had included dav_fs

[stonebeat.org]

only if they had included http://dav.sourceforge.net/ it would have made my life easier. :) with dav FS, you can mount a HTTP based WebDAV repository on your system. Very useful for storing files etc....

Heres some ideas

[HanzoSan]

Why cant we try to use Wine or something like it to trick the Xbox into running the Microsoft gaming live software from withinn Linux?

Second, if its done right people might use Xbox Linux, if its useful, it depends on how its done. Overall though I'd use it to promote Linux, as a marketing technique.

Linux needs marketing, so that when the time comes a year or two from now, when Longhorn is released, Linux can take the market or at least be competitive, people have to actually know what Linux is though, as of right now people either dont know what it is, or they believe a bunch of myths about it being a hackerOS.

Re:Heres some ideas

[Gortbusters.org]

Why would you want to mod the XBox to run Linux so you can run Windows and play games the games you could without the MOD?

I don't think XBox support is going to win over many people. Linux IS popular now as a sever platform (Redhat's survival in the market place is a testament to this).

Re:Heres some ideas

[hobbesmaster]

Why would you want to mod the XBox to run Linux so you can run Windows and play games the games you could without the MOD?

You must be new here.

Re:Heres some ideas

[rsheridan6]

If you don't understand, you probably have a girlfriend.

Re:Heres some ideas

[Anonymous Coward]

my xbox is modded, and the bootloader software, whether cromwell, xromwell, evolutionX, or even raincoat all let you boot xbox games normally. the only thing a modchip does is remove the need for the xbox to see a signature before booting a disk. furthermore, there isa jumper on most modchips(i wired mine to a switch) that makes the modchip non-functional and allows the xbox to run normally.

Re:Heres some ideas

[badboy_tw2002]

So the best way to dispell myths about it being a "hackerOS" is to show how hackers have broken hardware protection schemes to get it working?

...sounds good to me!

Re:Heres some ideas

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Why cant we try to use Wine or something like it to trick the Xbox into running the Microsoft gaming live software from withinn Linux?"

RAM, output, and interface limitations? Do you really want to run Quake in swap mode on a 720 by 480 interlaced screen with an XBOX controller?

VideoLan

[Anonymous Coward]

If it doesn't come with VideoLan then it's not complete

Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

It isn't that we have to introduce *gamers* to Linux. It's that we have to introduce *game developers* to linux. Gamers don't write games [well some may but most don't].

If you build it, they will come, etc, etc.

Same can be said for hardware manufacturers. Some working CMPCI drivers would kick ass too.

Tom

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[calethix]

It's kind of a chicken/egg problem.
Not many developers are going to write Linux games (or port to Linux) if there are few Linux gamers to pay for the work involved
Conversely, if there aren't many Linux games already then gamers will look to a different platform.

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

No its called "we ought to use our IPO and VC money for something useful".

E.g. the bidnez takes the chance, makes a killer linux game and the booms, people likes the Linux.

On the other hand they can squanders the money on say shiny corner offices and brands new cars [and the womens].

I mean no shit you have to make something before people will buy it.

I bet the first companies to make MP3 players had it rough for the first few years too.... Apparently they're popular cuz you can't go eight feet without seeing some stupid SD 8MB MP3 player somewhere...

Tom

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[calethix]

That's really not comparable because MP3 players have major advantages over portable cd players/any other portable media player. Not to mention all the people that bought MP3 players just because it was the new thing.
I have yet to see a Linux game that is leaps and bounds ahead of anything available on another platform (PS2, GC, Xbox, Windows PC) so what incentive would I, as a gamer, have to buy a Linux box to play games on?
What incentive as a game developer would I have to make games for a system that
A. I don't know as well as the other systems I already develop for and
B. Has a much smaller user base

If it's so easy, get some VC, start your own game development company and show everyone how it's done.

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[MaestroSartori]

Most of the game programmers I know use Linux. Why don't we make Linux games? Hint - its not because we don't like Linux...

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

That's the trick though, use portable game libraries. For example, Allegro works on both. So use Allegro for mouse, sound, keyboard and 2d graphics and OpenGL for the 3d stuff.

Boom, not so hard.

No, hire some crackpot college grad to write Win32-only code.

If you make games that work in both Linux and win32 then eventually more people who are getting fed up with windows will say "why not try linux, at least my games work there".

Tom

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[wiremind]

Linux is so versitile.
Linux can easily run off live cd.

LiveCD+games written for linux+computer

Why not turn the computer into another gaming console.

Like, ya, that way users dont have to install linux, they just:
1. boot up their computer with the video game cd,
2. the video game boots them into linux
3. the video game mounts dos partitions for file saving.
4. the game loads up.

The reason this isnt done on windows currently is because it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have a live boot windows cd that would support all current hardware.

How i figure it, video game manufacturers dont have to worry about OS compatibility any more, windows users are USED to rebooting, so, to reboot to play a game would seem simple to them, and the linux crowd could just run the game, dont need to reboot, and i imagine with a little bit of effort they could make a mac bootable version of linux, and then, getting it running on a mac just means recompiling the source for a different processor, and using a mac version of linux, say, a live OS X kernel?

so, any; reasons this would be bad?

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

This is good?

I thought the swing of Linux was to convince users to stop using Windows.

I mean if I have to shutdown my windows box [which I develop software on, run a httpd on, etc...] so I can play a game I'm not going to play the game.

However, get the games to work nicely in Linux and I'll switch to using Linux full time.

Tom

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[wiremind]

Loki games tried to go straight for making games for linux, and that already failed.

meanwhile,

wineX makes games work for linux, and they are so far pretty successful.

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

They're silly?

Allegro will cut down 90% of the leg work of making the game portable.

Sure there is an additional cost in making games portable but it isn't as huge as people make it out to be.

Tom

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[wiremind]

However, get the games to work nicely in Linux and I'll switch to using Linux full time.

"the linux crowd could just run the game, dont need to reboot"

The games would be written for linux, so, either you use your current install of linux, or if you dont have linux installed, you use the live cd bootable that is part of the game cd.

Also, just a general question, do you game on the same system you run apache on?

If so, why not consider picking up a 133mhz computer, and installing linux or one of the bsd's plus apache+php etc.. on it?

I am kinda in the same boat as you, I do Visual C++ coding at home, so my main system cant run linux and I too wouldnt want to reboot to play a game ( remember back win95 when you had to reboot into msdos mode to play most games, SO annoying) I'm just presenting this as one option, it would make video games crossplatform very easily.

Maybe a better Idea would be to do what someone else partly mentioned, where we just use cross platform API's then games are just recompiled for each os/proccessor. getting games on linux would be just as easy then.

Kyle

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

"The games would be written for linux, so, either you use your current install of linux, or if you dont have linux installed, you use the live cd bootable that is part of the game cd."

The problem is who is going to write a game that runs on Linux only. The whole problem people keep stating is there is no $$ in writing linux games.

My whole point was write portable games [or at least rely on libraries that are indigenous to windows/linux x86] and voila you have a market.

As for the "why not buy a cheapo linux box". I'm not exactly rolling in the dough, even to buy a 200$ box.

Note there are still other failings of linux that would prevent people like myself from switching

1. lack of games
2. lack of good drivers [and certain free ones like the CMPCI ones are buggy]
3. lack of flashy setup/installers
4. Some tools [tetex] don't work as seemlessly as their windows [miktex] counterparts.

Though to the 3rd point Knoppix does really work well.

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[jdew]

cmpci buggy? how so? i use it with no problems at all

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[tomstdenis]

The line in gain is screwed up. My TV [via line in] is super quiet with the drivers in linux [not in windows].

The PCM is fucking loud. So I have to either jack up my speakers and hope nothing makes a sound or I can't watch tv...

I know, I know, "well tom why don't you fix it"

two problems

a. I'm not a PC hardware hacker. I hack small things like Gameboys... :-)

b. I'm hella busy with other work to do it.

This bug in the driver has been in the kernel for quite some time [at least since 2.4.18]. It doesn't happen with the windows CMPCI drivers .

Tom

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[outernet]

CMPCI? As in, C-Media PCI sound cards? I have one, and it worked beautifully under OSS with the manufacturer written GPL drivers, and even better with the latest ALSA drivers (derived from them). C-Media is one of the few companies I respect greatly, they even have linux drivers for their winmodems.

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[Erasmus Darwin]

"How i figure it, video game manufacturers dont have to worry about OS compatibility any more"

That ignores the larger issue of hardware compatibility. The video game manufacturer would have to make sure they shipped with working drivers on the CD for all possible hardware platforms that they're going to support. Furthermore, those drivers would have to be high enough quality to give gaming-level performance out of the hardware.

"windows users are USED to rebooting"

Windows users are used to rebooting when installing new software or drivers (which can be quite infrequent, depending). Windows users are not used to rebooting every single time they want to run an application. I, personally, would not purchase a game that required me to reboot every time I wanted to play it, unless it was the absolute greatest game ever.

Re:Direction wrong, please try again.

[wiremind]

you are quite correct.

I would not play a game if i had to reboot computer to play it.

in hindsight i can see that the idea of a live boot OS on a game cd is a bad idea.

I still like the idea of cross platform API's though.

xine on the Xbox?

[gooofy]

would be interesting to see what xine could do on this platform. maybe any xbox could be turned into a full-featured dvd player (including menu support) that way?

Re:xine on the Xbox?

[iainl]

Clever, but a frankly painful way of doing it. There are already dedicated media player programs for the Xbox that use the built-in DVD decoding hardware to give you multi-region DVD playback without the need for the remote.

Re:xine on the Xbox?

[C32]

There is already a very mature mplayer port on native xbox-windows/DirectX.
I think it goes without saying that a xbox-linux media player will be slower and lesser-featured than a native player that takes advantage of video accelleration and surround sound for example.

Re:xine on the Xbox?

[robotbrain]

Or you could use DVD-X dongle free, which supports menus, is region free and does not use macrovision and runs native on Xbox without Linux. No dongle or remote is required. (Download link not legally available)

Re:xine on the Xbox?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's not going to be a whole lot of fancy graphics stuff for linux on the XBox without drivers for the NVidia chip. And you can bet how soon that's going to happen.

Re:xine on the Xbox?

[tdcarrol]

mplayer is working on xbox.
But the best media player is www.xboxmediaplayer.de

Re:Happy Anniversery

[ramdac]

"Loser" only has one O in it. Loser.

For an explanation on the PROPER spelling of loser, see HERE:

http://www.stickimup.com/modules.php?name=News&fil e=article&sid=1&mode=&order=0&thol d=0

Another Live-CD

[Anonymous Coward]

Woo! Having been bored to tears with Knoppix I suppose it's about time another pointless live-CD type distro is released

Somebody please explain the practical everyday use of an OS that runs from a CD drive

Re:Another Live-CD

[beef3k]

I see it first and foremost as a very efficient way of introducing people to linux without first having to convinve them that they need to repartition their box and install a new boot loader ("huh? boot loader?"), let alone install linux. With Knoppix etc. you can demo linux to someone in 2 minutes instead of 2 hours.

It could also be useful if you do contracting of any sort and would like to work on linux instead of you-know-what (you'd need a USB pen drive or the like for your data).

Re:Another Live-CD

[hplasm]

To wean off Bindows, run from CD. After getting the hang of Linux, use the HD install and move on.

Re:Another Live-CD

[ameoba]

Personally, I was kinda excited after looking at the screenshots, unfortunately they decided to use childish epithets like "Micro$oft Winblows" on their about page.

What a bunch of cockmunching lamers.

For everything else there's...

[johnthorensen]

MicroSoft XBox: $169.00
Mod Chip: $30.00
CD to burn the latest distro to: $0.20

Using the above system to call MicroSoft Tech Support via VoIP to complain about how bad KDE looks on a 20" black-and-white TV: PRICELESS.

-JT

Re:For everything else there's...

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, you do know that Microsoft hasn't capitalized the S since the early 1980s, right? At least you're not hyphenating it like they did in the early 1970s.

Re:For everything else there's...

[Anonymous Coward]

dick

Re:For everything else there's...

[johnthorensen]

Actually, yeah - I'm well aware of it. I just like capitalizing the 'S' because it reminds me of the days when they were a much smaller part of our everyday life :)

Re:For everything else there's...

[zapp]

Getting sued for violating their copyright protection scheme by modding the xbox: life savings.

Re:For everything else there's...

[Anonymous Coward]

Be grateful he didn't say Micro$oft.

Let's get this out of the way.

[Prince_Ali]

Me: If you don't like Microsoft, why buy their game system.
You: They lose money on all of their systems.
Me: Even if they lose money that doesn't mean that they sell them for below variable cost. You are just helping recover fixed cost.
You: I don't understand your fancy moon language!
Me: Why not get a Lindows computer?
You: The X-Box has better hardware!
Me: It has like 48 megs of ram.
You: It has a nice graphics card!
Me: Fine, it has a nice graphics card.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny. But as a (insert explicative here) Stanford MBA, I tell you, it's true.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[orange_6]

Me: Why not get a Lindows computer?
Because I can't play Halo on Lindows.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[theLOUDroom]

Lindows PC's don't have component video output.

Try to find a way to get component video output from your PC for less than $200. I bet you can't.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[Xformer]

Especially now that Microsoft has Bungie Studios in their pocket.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[orange_6]

If they didn't buy Bungie, the only thing Halo would come out for would be Mac. And I'd rather buy a system that is made for gaming rather than a toy that masquerades as a viable system.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[Xformer]

IIRC, they were going to do a PC version, then Microsoft bought them and steered them away from that... initially, anyway.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[Anonymous Coward]

They were aiming for a tri-system release: Windows, Mac and Linux. The latter two got dropped when they were bought, of course.

Re:Let's get this out of the way.

[Asprin]

Not to mention that this is like settling lawsuits with discount coupons for Windows/Office. Punishing MS by increasing their market share? Dumb strategy. Microsoft has, what, $40 BILLION cash in the bank? I'm pretty sure they could afford to gift every household in America with a free XBox if they wanted to. The whole "they lose money on every sale" argument doesn't fly because right now they aren't interested in making money on half the stuff they produce.

/Rant

(Heh, heh.... "fancy moon language".... I gotta write that one down...)

Re:please

[Anonymous Coward]

What does it mean?

Sounds Good

[trublaha]

Over the past few months, I've been working towards getting a server up and running on my university network to provide streaming videos of club activities and music from uni-bands.

The hard part has been scrounging up bits and pieces to create a half-decent server for all this as the Clubs & Societies deperatment of our Student Union has been rather tight-fisted. A cheap x-box preloaded with this software would be perfectly within budget.

Now to convince the less practical members of the committee to drop their insistance on Win32 platform. Convincing them we can achieve our target with an off-the-shelf, cheap-as console rather than an expensive box will take some work... :-/

Re:Sounds Good

[Anonymous Coward]

No, don't do that. The XBox sounds like a good deal, but unless you plan to play games, you're not doing that well.

You can get a cheap all-in-one board for around $80 that will be at least as reliable as the XBox. Add a low-end $30 CPU, $30 case, $20 in ram, used HD, and you're set - you've got way more power than the XBox has, and you're not using a platform designed to run an hour or two at a time.

Re:Sounds Good

[satterth]

k, well this is in Canadian dollars, but i'm sure you'll get the point.

Xbox $280

Mod chip $60

Modded Keyboard and mouse or adapter $10

intel 733mhz 64Mb ram and 10gig drive

Total ~$350

Now lets price out a PC

Motherboard $117 (audio+video+lan+ddr) intel 845GE

Intel Celeron 1700 $89

256MB PC2700 DDR $47

Case $47

Maxtor 40.0Gb $87

Total ~$387

spend the extra $50 and get a real system that will kick the ass out of any X-Box. 4 times the space, 4 times the memory and 2.3 times the processor for 1.1 times the cost. Why waste your time if all you want is a server like PC.

If all you wanted to do is match performance of an X-Box. I'm sure you could come up with some good used older/slower gear from local computer shops or even ebay for alot cheaper then an X-box.

Mod Chip?

[siskbc]

I emailed dozens of my friends, and I will attempt to introduce them to Linux in a way thats safe

Um...you DO realize they have to mod the box first, right? Your friends are all handy with a soldering iron, I take it?

Re:Mod Chip?

[Iscariot_]

Soldering not required. Check out The Matrix.

Re:Mod Chip?

[siskbc]

Soldering not required. Check out The Matrix.

All right. Still requires acquiring the chip and cracking the case, so the effect is still the same - it isn't trivial for someone who's afraid of mucking their system.

For your girl...

[lpret]

Actually, I remember reading an article about in Japan where chicks were using the playstation controller to, um...well, dual-shock themselves.

Re:For your girl...

[bjschrock]

There is a game that comes with an extra "controller". There's an article about it here. (Google cache).

Re:For your girl...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's how Sony achieved market penetration in Japan...

fancy

[Boromir son of Faram]

Hm, "fancy" and "GNUStep" in the same sentence. I mean, WindowMaker's fine and all, but it's sort of minimal, innit?

Re:fancy

[lleo]

Depends on how you configure it. It DOES look fancy if you have enough time to let it.

Re:fancy

[Art Tatum]

WindowMaker != GNUstep. WindowMaker is an X11 window manager meant to resemble a NeXT desktop. GNUstep is a set of portable object-oriented frameworks that provide resources for writing applications. It's like an object-oriented standard C library.

And as frameworks go, GNUstep is *very* fancy. Oh, and the GUI libraries are theme-able as well--so you can make it look any way you want. There's a Mac-style menu theme, an updated NeXT-ish theme, and I've seen some screenshots of OS X themes.

wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[iainl]

OK, so turning my XBox into a Tivo with the aid of a modchip, a larger hard-drive and this bootcd would be great, but for one obvious thing. Where on earth is the video-in they plan to use this with?

Similiarly, there is no audio-in for the sound recorders.

And Blender is a nightmare of a gui in the first place, even when you've got a keyboard and mouse...

At the end of the day, an Xbox version of KnoppixMAME would probably be more useful, I feel. Still, its an interesting experiment.

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[op00to]

USB -- the Xbox controller ports are USB ports. If theres a video encoder for USB that has linux drivers, maybe thats what you could use. As for sound, I've gotten usb sound to work on linux a long time ago.

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[henele]

The AV port on the back is labled 'Input/Output', I don't know if that just means sync signals come in or something useful to a MythTV style project...

Any /.er out there got the schematics? Or are they also hidden by the DMCA?

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[Sherloqq]

Apparently you can use it to power a PC, too, so given the right kernel support, you could prolly use a BT-based video acquisition board with this. I'll find out shortly, downloading ISO now :)

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[Troed]

No video-in there.

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[yerricde]

Xbox controller ports are still only 12 Mbps USB, not High Speed USB. Can a good-quality video+audio feed be compressed in real time into 12 Mbps? By an inexpensive device? I tried it with a Dazzle box, and the results were $#!+.

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[Wirr]

The XBox must have Audio in.
Microsoft announced a DVD and Microphone package, with which you can do karaoke.
That would be impossible if the XBox hadn't audio in.

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[slim]

Where on earth is the video-in they plan to use this with?

Both MythTV and Freevo are moving toward a client/server architecture, so some boxes on the system record, some record and play, and some only play. I imagine if you've spent a few hundred dollars on a well specced server/recorder/encoder, and Xbox would make a handy playback only device to sit on the network.

Re:wtf? Mpeg encoder and video-in recorder?

[TerryMathews]

I don't think that port is capable of reading more than the type of dongle that is attached to it.

For example, if you hook up a HiDef dongle, the system presents an option to choose available HD resolutions. Without the HiDef dongle, that option is missing.

Why the name dyne:bolic?

[burgburgburg]

What is the genesis of the name? There is no mention in the FAQ (that I could see).

Re:Why the name dyne:bolic?

[Anonymous Coward]

Used to be named "dyabolique" but it infringed on another project's name. So they added a colon to give it street cred.

Re:Why the name dyne:bolic?

[antani]

dyne is for www.dyne.org (the group who programmed it)

bolic is the old distro which dynebolic bases itself
here the old homepage: http://www.autistici.org/loa/web/progetti/bolic1.h tml

sorry but i'm italian and i've not studied english and maybe that sentences means nothing to you

MOD PARENT UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is in no way incorrect. Please stop moderation trolling.

BILL GATES WILL ATTEMPT TO TAKE OVER ALL MARKETS and you FUCKING MORONS will allow it to happen.

Re:Happy Anniversery

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I was under the impression that "looser"'s proper spelling was LINUX

go x-box!

[ZipR]

You're one step close to becoming a PC! Woot!

Re:go x-box!

[FatalTourist]

Why not go that last step?

Sounds like you need GNUBox

[Anonymous Coward]

I am appalled at the excitment that the idea of running GNU/Linux on a closed and proprietary system such as the XBox has caused. We at the GNU Project have the answer, and have been working on connection with OpenCores to produce the GNUBox console for all your GNU/Linux and The GNU/HURD requirements.

GNUBox version 0.14af2_1-1 is now available, and comprises of a blank sheet of mylar with a single -12v DC power line and a ground trace. We expect the hardware to be completed at around the same time as the Earths internal nuclear reactions cease and the planet cools and shrinks to a size of an Apple.

Yours GNU'ly

RMS

Re:Sounds like you need GNUBox

[Thing 1]

Heh... I just divorced my X-Box. Now I'm looking for a GNU/Box.

Re:please

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that like, japanese slang for let's get stoned?

Sorry, I'm working through an imperfect Japanese -> English translator trying to find the literal meaning of çY (which appears to be stone... so I can only assume it can be used as slang to approximate the US English slang term stoned...)

then again, this could all be flying out of my arse at high speeds.

So... Let's çY = ?

Icons stolen from KDE?

[Aardpig]

Having a look at one of their screenshots, I noticed that the dock icons in the top right-hand corner look suspiciously like those I remember from my KDE days a couple of years back. It appears they have stolen these icons to spiff up the appearance of Window Maker/GNUStep, which IMHO is rather sneaky.

Re:Icons stolen from KDE?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing wrong or improper about that.

Re:Icons stolen from KDE?

[kworthington]

Ahhh the beauty of OSS/Free software. They 'borrowed' icons from KDE, and used them with GNUstep. There's no violation to the GPL that I can see. Let's say the KDE project decided that they were tired of their icons (for the sake of my example). They could take GNOME's icons and incorporate it right into the KDE codebase. No problem. Where would Linux (or any open-source project) be without borrowing code (or in this case icons) from other projects? Just my thoughts... hopefully worth more than $0.02.

Re:Icons stolen from KDE?

[Cereal Box]

Hey, if copying music isn't "theft" then copying someone else's icons isn't "theft", it's "copyright infringement" (or some other term that makes the act easier to justify).

Other people's work wants to be free! Stop giving these guys a hard time for "sharing" those icons!

Knoppix

[YeeHaW_Jelte]

I just gave my dad a KNOPPIX cd to test linux with; a complete debian system with kde and all your standard stuff (openoffice, mozilla, etc) on one bootable CD. It's pretty nifty. It booted on my Dell Precision (which, accidentally, damn well isn't slower than any G5, lying apple sons-of-bitches), the same system which gave SuSE quite a few headaches at install time.

And with KNOPPIX you don't need an X-BOX, which are still manufactured by our evil arch enemy Microsoft, as far as I remember.

Re:Happy Anniversery

[Anonymous Coward]

unless of course you're talking about a dumb user, then it's spelled luser. ;)

Re:please

[Anonymous Coward]

I read it as "rock." The Japanese don't really seem to have a word for "stoned," oddly enough. I've been told that "tobu," "to fly," works. "Meromero" as well, but that has a sexual connotation.

well, kiddie

[HanzoSan]

Why would you want to modify your already configured Windows box to run Linux?

I mean choice isnt important as long as it works just use it right??RIGHT?

Re:well, kiddie

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn how to speak English properly, you stupid fuck.

What?

[serial frame]

I'm afraid that distribution does not use GNUstep; Window Maker and GNUstep, though intertwined in certain ways, are completely different projects altogether.

Window Maker a GNUstep desktop does not make, I'm afraid.

Re: work with 007 hack

[dhm4]

sure it will. just set the write enable pin of the xbox-flash, run the savegame & flash the bios the way you like it.
there is already a new savegame exploit for the M$-game MechAussault, that also updates the xbox-live runtime. perhaps the dashboard is exploitable too & linux gets _independent_ from a modchip or hardware modifications.

"without the need for the remote"

[da5idnetlimit.com]

Nice ! You should be in Marketing...

IT truly sounds better than "Goddam DVDX2 !!! Doesn't accept Remote Control !!!"

And now, all of a sudden, it's not a bug. It's a feature 8)

Re:"without the need for the remote"

[iainl]

If memory serves (I've not modded my Box at home, as I've got a perfectly wonderful DVD player just above it anyway), the latest version will accept the remote should you want it to.

Its just that many would rather not bother, and save themselves the £20.

Practical everyday use

[ShieldW0lf]

1) Insert ClusterKnoppix into every computer in the office
2) Connect laptop to office network
3) Rip rental DVD
4) Begin distributed divx compression
5) Smoke a cigarette
6) Burn DivX CD
7) Go home

Re:Practical everyday use

[planckscale]

Verrrry interesting...

Please elaborate. I'm a proficient linux user and I have a few DVD's I'd like to back up to divx and this sounds like an efficient method. Your email address is not listed on /. but *Please* can you provide me with more detailed instructions? i.e. which ripper do you use and which distributed divx compression app do you use?

Gratis

Re:Practical everyday use

[ThisIsAPainInMyAss]

Start here:

As for ripping off rentals, I hope that the parent poster was just making an ass of himself and not being serious.

Re:Practical everyday use

[Kosi]

What's wrong in making a perfectly legal private copy from a rental disc?

No it has to be more personal than that.

[HanzoSan]

Although it could indeed work, It worked for AOL, I'd prefer a grass roots movement occur in the same manner people convinced management to use Linux as a server, people have to now convince the average person to use Linux on the desktop.

Once Linux is competitive in all markets, can we finally be happy, when I can buy a PC and the vendor asks "Would you like Linux or Windows on your PC?" Then I will be satisfied.

Re:No it has to be more personal than that.

[Islington_66_81]

Look I love linux. Its a superior OS and its free. Its hard to beat that. That is for anyone who really knows anything about computers. You see most people hardly know how to use a mouse and consequently those people will never use linux. It all boils down to this. For the average user (idiot) Windows is the superior operating system. Yes I actualy said that. The average person doesnt care about security or even performance and they obviously dont mind when there computer crashes at least once a week. To them it doesnt matter. What does matter to them is not having to think and Windows (and Microsoft in general) does that better than anyone. Face it using Windows takes absolutely no knowledge what so ever of anything except how to breath and move your fingers. Linux on the other hand takes quite a bit of know how and general computing knowledge. Even when using one of the desktop Gui's that usualy come with any linux build you still have to know how to set it up and some things are still rather difficult to do. Not to mention the fact that Linux only offers peer suport and not direct support from the company (this is rather important for buisnesses too and usualy more than makes up for the price of licensing). In short Windows IS the superior operating system for the masses and will continue to be untill all us Linux people wake up and create a product that does what Windows does only better (ie. no crashing or security holes).

own xbox distribution?

[dhm4]

you can already run different linux distributions on a xbox (debian, mandrake, redhat, suse, ...) with a few kernel hacks, _but_ why does nobody make an own linu-X-box? it should be based on debian . just add a few features from knoppix or XLLPS. make some individual skins for mozilla, gnome or kde (or even an special window maker), gaim, etc. that are optimized for TV-resolution & gamepad as input device, multimedia (divX, mp3, vcr features), emulators (gba, mame, snes, ps, n64, ... + VMware _g_) & if you have an easy disto (just put the cd in), that windows user can use without probs then a new hype is started. what do you think of that idea or is there already an _independend_ X distro?

If you already have the compressed iso...

[Anonymous Coward]

... please put up a bittorrent, mmmkay?

Re:If you already have the compressed iso...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, whuzzup. I went to the site and thought about downloading it from there and then I said, nah somebody at /. will certainly put up a torrent link and we can all share.
So uhm, who's going to get the ball rolling? My upstream sucks.

I'm waiting for the Redhat/Lindows live CD.

[HanzoSan]

Knoppix is good, but we need some live CDs based on Redhat. We need Redhat Linux because its the most stable and easiest to use. If I am going to introduce someone to Linux, the options would be Mandrake, Redhat, Lindows, but never Debian or Slackware.

But until the Redhat/Mandrake live CD promotion kit is released, I will use Knoppix.

Re:I'm waiting for the Redhat/Lindows live CD.

[Forkenhoppen]

If I am going to introduce someone to Linux, the options would be Mandrake, Redhat, Lindows, but never Debian or Slackware.

But never Debian? Am I missing something, here?

Re:I'm waiting for the Redhat/Lindows live CD.

[Troed]

Why has parent been moderated troll? Some people should never get mod points ..

I just chose RedHat over Debian myself for a server. up2date and a _smooth_ installation _is_ worth it over the "technically" better but more cumbersome version. If I were to introduce someone to Linux I would also go with RedHat, Mandrake et al ..

Re:I'm waiting for the Redhat/Lindows live CD.

[tzanger]

I've been a Slackware user since '95 or so. i've tried RedHat, SuSE, Debian, LFS... I have to agree with the original poster; Debian is a horrible, horrible distro to show someone as a demonstration of what Linux can do.

Sure it's got 10 bazillion packages but if you're doing anything but server stuff you'll be using unstable, and at that point you're actually worse off than Slackware. Broken packages, wrong deps and unstable 'unstable' servers are just the beginning. Debian users (or at least the packagers) are fanatics about the whole "Gee Enn You Slash" in front of Linux to boot.

So far out of all of the distros I've tried, SuSE seems to take the cake for simplicity and ease of use. Yes, this is from a hardcore Slackware user. I find Slackware to be the epitome of "do what you want," and is the distro of choice if you have a Resident Smart Guy who will be maintaining it, but if you want a distro that just works, SuSE is the way to go, IMO.

I'll take you up on that bet

[Cereal Box]

$120 VGA to component out adapter

You lose.

Re:I'll take you up on that bet

[Zack]

GeForce4 MX 440 SE, 64MB SDR, TV-Out - $79

I win :-P

(I've got the dualhead + TV out version of this card... works wonderfully)

Re:I'll take you up on that bet

[theLOUDroom]

Technically, you found a way. I'll give you that much. But it's only a half-assed way that I was already aware of and don't consider a real solution. It's not a real scan-convertor and it doesn't support 1920 x 1080p, or even 720p.

Now take the remaining $80 and find a computer with similar specs to an Xbox :) Then you'll have proven your case.

Re:I'll take you up on that bet

[jpmkm]

That card doesn't have component out. You lose.

Re:I'll take you up on that bet

[Zack]

The cost effective GeForce4 MX 440SE maintains a memory bandwidth of 2.15GB per second, allowing for rendering complex 3D sceneries. The NVIDIA nViewâ Multi-Display feature can allow for simultaneous TV Out through the onboard RCA and S-Video connectors.

RCA == Component out, no?

Re:I'll take you up on that bet

[CoolVibe]

Mine does (Creative 3D blaster 440 MX). neener neener neener!

Olli

[HanzoSan]

Heres an Idea, how about we market a Linux distro specifically for gamers?

Perhaps something like you mention, counterstrike, quake3, or other games, run some tests, see if we can get these games running at a higher frame rate than the Windows versions, and market it that way.

Re:Olli

[Okneff]

Have a look at gentoogames This is/will be the Linux distro specifically for gamers, but they make no compromise: booting directly into the game is not what a so-far-windows-only user wants to get warm with GNU/linux. The intention behind the jollix project is to use some games - either running natively or through wine - to have a certain type of user attract to deal with a new OS. At LAN parties I noticed that it is just "cool" for some guys to see someone play under linux. So this is a real chance to get those people in touch with GNU/linux I think.

Olli

Re: work with 007 hack

[InterruptDescriptorT]

I have heard of the 007 save game exploit, but this is the first I've heard of MechAssault having a similar exploit.

I just checked XBoxHacker but there's no reference to it there that I could find. (I don't check the latest XBox hacking new very often, so that's why I only know of one site to check.) Do you have any references to the new exploit?

Freecraft

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I see freecraft in the manual, I wonder if that'll be included in the final release, especially with the current news about freecraft

Typing

[ranolen]

So what is the point of using it on an XBOX? You don't even have a keyboard to do any surfing with or any compiling. Really makes it hard to type an address in mozilla without a keyboard.

Re:Typing

[jjthe2]

You DO have a keyboard. The XBOX controller ports are USB, just plug in a usb keyboard (with some minor modifications).

Not true

[HanzoSan]

First, we can make Linux look like the computers in their room, check out Lycoris Linux http://www.lycoris.com/

See it looks like Windows. What you dont understand(I am a college student), is that college students dont care how it looks, they care how it functions, if the function is close enough to Windows they wont even notice the differences.

Lindows with ClickNRun functions just like Windows, installing programs is easy, etc, perhaps if we set up a Linux distro which made applications easy to install, had Lycoris/Lindows style functionality, and which had a word processor, browser, etc included, I think college students wouldnt care.

I have proof, WindowsXP doesnt look anything like Windows98, so why are all the college students using XP now? What about the fact that alot of college students use the Ibook with OSX? Its not the look, its the functionality, when Linux functions as well as Windows, the problem will be solved.

Currently Linux is 99% as functional as Windows, missing only polish and ease of software installation.

Knoppix is mature yes, but the problem with Knoppix is that its difficult to install software, until theres a clickNrun type feature people wont want to replace Windows with it, also the file structure should be like windows, a C: drive etc, to cover up the true Linux file structure, hell we might even be able to make it even easier than Windows by instead of using letters just using symbols/labels, or going the way of mac.

College students are our most intelligent and open minded sector of the population, if anyone is going to try Linux it will be them, also because these people already are trying Apple laptops and are amoung the first to switch to XP, we can convince them to switch to Linux instead of Longhorn when the time comes for their next upgrade by simply saying Lindows is the best upgrade to WindowsXP, Microsoft used this tactic to trick 98 users into upgrading into a new OS that wasnt even 100% backard compatible, hell even a new file system was involved so most people cant even access their old files.

I think if Microsoft could make people use an UGLY weird version of Windows, we can make people use Linux.

Re:Not true

[zog karndon]

hell even a new file system was involved so most people cant even access their old files.

What are you smoking, and can I get some?

XP runs on FAT32 as well as NTFS; it also has a filesystem conversion program to (transparently) convert FAT32 (or FAT16, I suppose, but I don't know anyone who still uses it).

I've upgraded a half-dozen Win98 systems to XP, and every last one of them can access their old files.

No, he's right

[Anonymous Coward]

Jennifer is looser than any woman I've known.

I call BS

[Anonymous Coward]

Recently I emailed dozens of my friends

Yeah, right. We all know you don't have any friends. "Friend" accounts on slashdot don't count.

CmdrTaco advocating xbox modding

[Multiple Sanchez]

> One more reason to mod an xbox.

I swear I'm not trying to make trouble, I'm just wondering: is it really kosher for the founder/figurehead geek of this site to be implicitly advocating "modding" the xbox? IANAL so if anyone has any kind of authoritative answer to that, please chime in.

Re:CmdrTaco advocating xbox modding

[damiam]

Why wouldn't it be? There is such a thing as free speech.

Re:CmdrTaco advocating xbox modding

[Anonymous Coward]

Modding isn't illegal, in fact more people should be advocating, otherwise it will gain a stigma like marijuana or reading

Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[HanzoSan]

You dont go to the old folks home and teach grandma to use Linux first. What you do is you teach her grand daughter in college to use Linux, you know the one going to Stanford. You teach the college students Linux first, showing them how it benefits them such as not having worry about crashing, no more losing their work, no fear of viruses, more difficult for hackers to steal all their information.

You see, college students are critical thinkers, they do or use whats best to accomplish their goals, they work hard, and they study, these people are the ones you want to Introduce to Linux, you do not introduce Linux to lazy people.

Look I love linux. Its a superior OS and its free. Its hard to beat that. That is for anyone who really knows anything about computers. You see most people hardly know how to use a mouse and consequently those people will never use linux. It all boils down to this. For the average user (idiot) Windows is the superior operating system.

People havent had the choice before, how do you know Windows is superior? It certainly doesnt have any superior features, its no longer easier to use than Linux, in fact XP is harder to use than KDE, the only thing Windows has going for it is polish and ease of software updates/installation.

Yes I actualy said that. The average person doesnt care about security or even performance and they obviously dont mind when there computer crashes at least once a week.

Oh yes they do! The average college student who loses their work after spending days writing a 20 page paper, certain does hate crashes. The college student who gets infected by a virus right before their paper is due, right around the end of the year, or at mid terms does care. A person who is at college and I'm not talking about the lazy dumb kids, but the somewhat intelligent people, dont want hackers stealing their credit information, or people to get passwords to all their stuff. Do you realize how easy it is to install a keylogger on some roomates windows PC and get all their information? Hell you could put a keylogger on the computer labs computers and get all the information that way, people do want security when they use their parents credit card numbers online. People want their AIM passwords to be somewhat secure, they dont want it to be hiijacked by a hacker.

Of course most people are convinced theres nothing they can do about it, virus scanners dont work, yet I see every so called lazy dumb windows user running a virus scanner, I also see alot of them r unning software firewalls like zone alarm, so if you tell people arent worried about this stuff you are wrong.

To them it doesnt matter. What does matter to them is not having to think and Windows (and Microsoft in general) does that better than anyone.

When was the last time you used KDE? When was the last time you used OSX? Windows XP is harder to use than both. I'm on XP right now and I'm telling you XP is slower, has more useless icons all over the place, and is less organized. XP is not easier to use than Windows 98, Windows 98 is not easier to use than Windows 95, so if all of these so called easy to use OS interfaces are just Windows95 with a new color scheme and layout, why cant Linux do it?

Try KDE before you say Linux is hard to use, its point and click just like Windows.

Face it using Windows takes absolutely no knowledge what so ever of anything except how to breath and move your fingers. Linux on the other hand takes quite a bit of know how and general computing knowledge.

Oh I'm sure you need to know C just to point and click around KDE, please tell me why anyone would need to know linux very well to do anything while using Lindows? Everything in Lindows is point and click, the install is easier than any other OS, even easier to install than WindowsXP.

Even when using one of the desktop Gui's that usualy come with any linux build you still have to know how to set it up and some things are

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[ball-lightning]

not having worry about crashing, no more losing their work
My computer's been up for 9 days so far, and I haven't lossed any work. As long you're not using something outdated (Windows ME, 98, etc) you should not have to worry about crashes.

no fear of viruses

Of course, Linux viruses are impossible (Old example, yes, but its just to prove a point)

more difficult for hackers to steal all their information.

This may actually be true, but only to a point. Yes, it would be harder for someone to send them a trojan, remotely this really isn't true, as long as both machines were secured.

Do you realize how easy it is to install a keylogger on some roomates windows PC and get all their information?

Uh, this could be done with Linux, too. And as for me, I lock my computer up every time I get up, (as well as have a BIOS password) so I'd personally be worried more about those keyloggers that install on the back of the keyboard than a software one. (Which of course would work in any OS)

virus scanners dont work

Great! Whats your email again? :D

When was the last time you used KDE? When was the last time you used OSX? Windows XP is harder to use than both. I'm on XP right now and I'm telling you XP is slower, has more useless icons all over the place, and is less organized. XP is not easier to use than Windows 98

How in the world is XP hard to use? One of the best things I like about XP is that it keeps track of how often you use something, and adds it to the start menu. Often, I don't even have to look for the program I want to use, because its right there for me. I have used all of the above mentioned and I would have to say XP was probably the best out of them all UI-wise. (OS X was just, weird. Not badmouthing it though, was very very pretty)

if your Linux breaks down, a redhat expert can log into your machine and fix it for you through the internet.

Oh give me a break. How many people freaked out just because XP has the ability to send crash reports to them? If XP had this feature (which it does to some extent, you can send and ask for help using MSN Messenger) most people would spout conspiracy theories on how 'Microsoft is going to take over all our computers!'


Having used almost every Windows ever created, as well as Red Hat, Mandrake, Gentoo, and Trustix, I would have to say that while Linux does excel in applications [application as in use, not a program] where you have to have a lot of control over your computer, easy as windows they are not.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[Anonvmous Coward]

"When was the last time you used KDE? When was the last time you used OSX? Windows XP is harder to use than both."

Um, no, XP still kicks KDE's butt from the "I've never used a computer before" point of view. Problem number one is that too many choices come up when you go to run programs. Worse, a lot of them begin with K. KOffice. Killustrator. Kedit. Konqueror. Etc. I'm familiar with how a computer works and I had a terrible time learning what the various apps do. Painful.

Problem #2 is that system configuration is harder to decipher. I couldn't believe how hard it was to change the resolution on my RedHat box! I had to log in as root and then run KDE. WTF?

Now I will give the KDE team credit, they've improved considerably over the years. If somebody from the not-too-distant future were to say to me "KDE's interface will beat Microsoft's", I wouldn't be stunned at all. But I do take issue with your comment about XP's interface being harder to use than KDE. I've watched people try to adjust to KDE from both 2K and XP. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not one of them.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[HanzoSan]

My computer's been up for 9 days so far, and I haven't lossed any work. As long you're not using something outdated (Windows ME, 98, etc) you should not have to worry about crashes.

Most people are using WindowsME and 98.

Of course, Linux viruses are impossible (Old example, yes, but its just to prove a point)


Linux viruses are impossible if you know what you are doing and arent logged in as root, they are also highly unlikely if you dont know what you are doing and you use something like Click N Run to get your files.

This may actually be true, but only to a point. Yes, it would be harder for someone to send them a trojan, remotely this really isn't true, as long as both machines were secured.


Most hackers use Windows, so the really good hackers who might be using Linux wont be interested in hacking college students, they will be too busy trying to hack the Windows based computer lab.

Uh, this could be done with Linux, too. And as for me, I lock my computer up every time I get up, (as well as have a BIOS password) so I'd personally be worried more about those keyloggers that install on the back of the keyboard than a software one. (Which of course would work in any OS)


No it cant, how do you get their root password to install ANYTHING like that?

How in the world is XP hard to use? One of the best things I like about XP is that it keeps track of how often you use something, and adds it to the start menu. Often, I don't even have to look for the program I want to use, because its right there for me. I have used all of the above mentioned and I would have to say XP was probably the best out of them all UI-wise. (OS X was just, weird. Not badmouthing it though, was very very pretty)

Its harder to use than OSX and KDE. Its Harder to use than Windows98, theres no new features which make XP easier to use, it just makes things more complicated, some people think anything if its released by Microsoft is easy because alot of people use it, thats not why people use it, they use it because their PC came with it.

Oh give me a break. How many people freaked out just because XP has the ability to send crash reports to them? If XP had this feature (which it does to some extent, you can send and ask for help using MSN Messenger) most people would spout conspiracy theories on how 'Microsoft is going to take over all our computers!'


Most people arent Anti Microsoft.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[ball-lightning]

Most people are using WindowsME and 98.

Well, in your reply that I replied to, you told the guy to use a recent version of Linux to base his opinions on. I now say the same thing to you in reference to windows.

Linux viruses are impossible if you know what you are doing and arent logged in as root, they are also highly unlikely if you dont know what you are doing and you use something like Click N Run to get your files.

I seriously hope you don't beleive that. The reason viruses are rare in Linux is because there are a lot more windows users, many of them ignorant in the ways to protect themselves. I do not have an active virus scanner (I check monthly, however) and I have never had a virus. I have closed off the vectors I know about, and just use common sense, something many people don't. When you have people who literally are just ignorant (and before you get all in arms about that word, please look it up).

Most hackers use Windows, so the really good hackers who might be using Linux wont be interested in hacking college students, they will be too busy trying to hack the Windows based computer lab.

Oh, so all the 31337 h4xz0rz use linux now? That has nothing to do with anything, except that you seem to feel all the 'good' hackers are on linux. (In a way they are, but thats a code hacker, not the kind you were referring to)

Uh, this could be done with Linux, too. And as for me, I lock my computer up every time I get up, (as well as have a BIOS password) so I'd personally be worried more about those keyloggers that install on the back of the keyboard than a software one. (Which of course would work in any OS)

Uh, since its a hardware keylogger, they don't need your root password, although they could certainly get it. Once again, its the same deal with windows. Password protect your account, how are they going to get the password to install a software keylogger?

Its harder to use than OSX and KDE. Its Harder to use than Windows98, theres no new features which make XP easier to use, it just makes things more complicated, some people think anything if its released by Microsoft is easy because alot of people use it, thats not why people use it, they use it because their PC came with it.

I mentioned a bunch of features that made WindowsXP a lot easier to use than Windows 98. The Start Menu actually changes depending to how you use the computer. In my experience however, the changes are very intuitive. When I had dial-up, it had a Connection toolbar there. When I got broadband and set up a wireless network, a Network Neighbor Hood icon appeared. My Computer, My Documents, My Music, as well as the 6 most used programs thats I use, all appear right when I click start. And you know what? For the most part, after Windows has 'learned' what I use most, I never have to go through the start menu to search for something. Sure, every once in a while I do, but if it becomes a usual thing, eventuallyl that will appear on the start menu replacing something I do less. Oh, and by the way, thats all customizable in less than, 7 clicks. If thats too complicated for you, well then I doubt you're actually using Linux now anyway.

Most people arent Anti Microsoft.

No, they aren't, but I think many people (myself included) would prefer that functionality to not be in our OS. Now, I don't know the specifics of what you're talking about (is it a normal remote login, or something special built into RH) so chances are its not a big deal to begin with, but I wouldn't say its an advantage over Windows, just that someone you paid can bail you out, since there are similiar services for windows.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[HanzoSan]

Well, in your reply that I replied to, you told the guy to use a recent version of Linux to base his opinions on. I now say the same thing to you in reference to windows.

I am using XP right now, its harder to use than the new KDE 3.2 for me.

seriously hope you don't beleive that. The reason viruses are rare in Linux is because there are a lot more windows users, many of them ignorant in the ways to protect themselves. I do not have an active virus scanner (I check monthly, however) and I have never had a virus. I have closed off the vectors I know about, and just use common sense, something many people don't. When you have people who literally are just ignorant (and before you get all in arms about that word, please look it up).

No, most important computers are running Linux, the US government, school servers, corperate servers, databases, etc. Most hackers attack corperate boxes, the viruses and trojans however attack IIS because its easier to hack, not because they arent trying to hack a webserver running Apache on Linux.




Oh, so all the 31337 h4xz0rz use linux now? That has nothing to do with anything, except that you seem to feel all the 'good' hackers are on linux. (In a way they are, but thats a code hacker, not the kind you were referring to)


Its more difficult to write a good denial of service application for Windows, its also more difficult to use already written tools because most of the useful tools are for Linux. Finally using Linux allows you to see exactly how to hack Windows, the buffer overflows, and all these exploits, the code is usually written in Linux because you cant hack a windows box from a windows box, we are talking serious hacking here, not virus writers and crackers.




Uh, since its a hardware keylogger, they don't need your root password, although they could certainly get it. Once again, its the same deal with windows. Password protect your account, how are they going to get the password to install a software keylogger?


Hardware keyloggers dont work if you use a scrambler or encrpytion software, unless the hardware keylogger literally gets your keystrokes from the computer or video card information, someone can easily use a program which scambles the data coming from the keyboard. Also if its so easy to get root passwords, well I guess IBM and the US government will be hacked by Al Qaeda at any time now, because believe me keyloggers are the oldest trick in the book.


I mentioned a bunch of features that made WindowsXP a lot easier to use than Windows 98. The Start Menu actually changes depending to how you use the computer. In my experience however, the changes are very intuitive. When I had dial-up, it had a Connection toolbar there. When I got broadband and set up a wireless network, a Network Neighbor Hood icon appeared. My Computer, My Documents, My Music, as well as the 6 most used programs thats I use, all appear right when I click start. And you know what? For the most part, after Windows has 'learned' what I use most, I never have to go through the start menu to search for something. Sure, every once in a while I do, but if it becomes a usual thing, eventuallyl that will appear on the start menu replacing something I do less. Oh, and by the way, thats all customizable in less than, 7 clicks. If thats too complicated for you, well then I doubt you're actually using Linux now anyway.

Most people dont use that feature, even if its useful most people have important icons on their desktop such as their dialup icon. The most used I con thing? Linux does that too.
My Computer, My Documents, My Music? Most people dont use these features, and its not really proven that these features make things easier to use, for me it makes things harder.

I prefer ease of use that Linux offers. XP is more complex than 98 but theres no evidence of it being better, you are talking about your own personal exper

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[GenSolo]

You need to stop using Slackware and try a DESKTOP Linux distro.
I put my Slackware 9 Live CD into my laptop. I boot the system. It works.

I put my Slackware 9 Install CD into my laptop. Granted, the install is a text menu, but I can point-and-click without a problem. It requires slightly more knowledge than a Windows install, but for your college target market, it's not hard. Sound configures itself. Network cards probe themselves. Even my 802.11 networking was easier than in Windows!

The point? Even Slackware "Just Works" now.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well this is interesting.

You've said such idiotic things out of stupidity for so long, that you've decided now to intentionally say stupid things.

Kind of like the fool that keeps falling into the pool and claims it was intentional.

Oh... you meant to troll all along. You've just been joking.

Sure.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he's finally given up. Since he's burned so many credibility bridges (and his real name and address revealed), I bet he intentionally flamed out and probably set up a new user ID.

Re:Thats why I said focus on smart people first.

[Anonymous Coward]

On the bright side, he'll probably reveal his new ID by being an ass-boner soon enough. Or hey, if it isn't him then it's still fun to make fun of these dumb ass-boners, so it's win-win.

And why not?

[timothy]

There's nothing wrong (morally or legally) with experimenting with hardware you own.

Note that this use (running a Linux distro) in particular has nothing to do with "stealing" as in running illegally copied games. I'm not going to debate whether playing illegally copied games should be called stealing, just pointing out that it's not part of running Linux on an Xbox :)

The reason I bought an Xbox (and am shopping* for a mod-chip) is to use it as a music box for my car. That may sound silly to you (and it may *be* silly to you :)) but it's very similar in price to adding a low-end CD player to my existing car stereo. And I like my head unit (which has a line-in), so I don't want to get rid of it.

A modded Xbox can also play Ogg Vorbis files, which is the format to which I've been ripping my CD collection for portable use. (Yes, many car decks now will play MP3s, but I don't have more than a handful of those.)

timothy

* Can anyone recommend an easy (no-solder), inexpensive, external-switch equipped modchip preloaded with the Cromwell BIOS? :) The external switch would be if I ever decide to buy, rent or borrow an actual XBox game ;)

Re:And why not?

[Void_Ptr]

For modchip recommendations, and all things xbox-modding, visit www.xbox-scene.com.

Re:And why not?

[ryanvm]

The reason I bought an Xbox is to use it as a music box for my car.

I'm not going to say it's "silly", but there is much more appropriate hardware for that purpose than the XBox. You'll be working with a sub-obtimal NTSC signal instead of nice clean >VGA. You've also got to mod the XBox to run off 12VDC (or deal with a kludgy inverter).

Out of curiousity - why did you choose the XBox?

I'm sure you already found it, but others interested in doing similar things should take a serious look at http://mini-itx.com/.

Re:And why not?

[ThisIsAPainInMyAss]

Can anyone recommend an easy (no-solder), inexpensive, external-switch equipped modchip preloaded with the Cromwell BIOS? :) The external switch would be if I ever decide to buy, rent or borrow an actual XBox game ;)

The no-solder modchips (pogo pins) are bad enough when you keep your unit in one spot, they'll last about as long as a fart in a whirlwind if you use this thing in your car. No way...

Go ahead and get an Xcuter2.x Pro and solder the sucker in. It isn't that hard*, and it will last. Be sure to correctly identify your Xbox prior to purchasing your modchip. The older modchips will not work with the newer xboxes. It should come with the Cromwell BIOS, which should work for what you want to do.

As for the illegit BIOS'es, as long as you don't use your modded Xbox to steal software, I can't see any problem with them (and please don't steal the games, it makes us all look like thieves and it just ain't right).

* John's Xbox modding tip:

When you go to solder in the 11 pin header, as seen here:

(Lookie)

1) Install the header in upside down with the long side of the pins in the board rather than the "right" way.

2) Hold the header out so it just clears the back of the Xbox motherboard and solder a few of the pins in place.

3) Make sure that everything is straight & level and solder the remaining pins in place on the back of the motherboard.

4) Flip the mobo over and now solder the top side of the pins down.

Because the header holes on the Xbox mobo are not thru-plated, you absolutely must have solder on both sides . Fail to do this and the modchip will not work.

By soldering the pins on both sides, you can be sure that there is a good connection before you close up your Xbox.

5) When you are satisfied, gently push the plastic pin holder down so that it is flush with the top of the mobo.

I've done two of these this way now (after having trouble following directions :) and this technique works very well.

Be patient, work in good light, and possibly use a magnifying glass if one is handy and you should do just fine :) Solder the D0 line on the backside (where there is no solder mask to interfere with the soldering) using wirewrap wire if you have some handy (or some other really small wire). Tape the wire down with masking tape.

John

Still the question: Why?

[TheCabal]

Every time one of these "Linux on Xbox" stories pop up, I ask: Why?

I've gotten a few vague answers, ranging from "it has a good graphics card, I can now do all that rendering I've been waiting to do!" to "Don't tell me how to use my hardware, you sancimonious pro-Microsoft clone!"

I still ask: Why? Oh, yeah, there's that giddy little thrill of 'subverting' a Microsoft platform to run Linux, but you have to have actually purchased an Xbox to begin with, so you've already put money in Microsoft's coffers. With all the effort needed to get an Xbox to run Linux, there's tons of easier platforms so you fire up EMACS and check your email.
Once you done it, what are you going to do with it? Compartively speaking, apart from the graphics controller, it's not that good of a computing platform.

Re:Still the question: Why?

[Monty67]

Oh, yeah, there's that giddy little thrill of 'subverting' a Microsoft platform to run Linux, but you have to have actually purchased an Xbox to begin with, so you've already put money in Microsoft's coffers.

According to a number of news sources( /.included) Xbox sells them at a loss.

From an older ZDnet UK article "Blodget estimates Microsoft will "lose $125 on every Xbox console--and that's before taking into account" sales, marketing and other administrative costs." and that was before they started to cut the price.

MS makes all its money back from games, so if you were to buy one of the units w/o any games, MS would basically be picking up the difference.

Re:Still the question: Why?

[TheCabal]

Buying an Xbox without buying any games is like buying a box of condoms without any intention of getting laid.

Microsoft has several billion in cash (40 billion+ from what I heard) in its war chest. Do you think the number of Slashdotters who buy Xboxes without games are making the slightest difference in the overall picture? How many actually bought an Xbox and never bought a game for one? I'm sure there's a couple who have HALO or Ghost Recon stashed away in the bottom of their closets whenever their fellow Linux geeks come over to visit.

Re:Still the question: Why?

[muck1969]

It's the basic Geek Thrill (tm) of making something more than it should be and to satisfy one's curiosity. Overclocking isn't necessary. Modding a PC case to include Mr. Coffee isn't necessary. Painting Lego figures to look like the Simpsons isn't necessary (and if it hasn't been done yet, it will probably be reported here).

The question shouldn't be "Why would someone do that?" ... the question should be which pill would you take? (Forgive my reference, but it simplified the question)

Re:Still the question: Why?

[TheCabal]

As we say over at fark.com....

"Still no cure for cancer"

I still fail to see why this causes so much titter among the people here.

Which pill would I take? One that led to a more worthwhile result. Now excuse me, I'm going to pop Ghost Recon into my unmodded Xbox and shoot some bad guys.

Re:Still the question: Why?

[crashfrog]

Every time one of these "Linux on Xbox" stories pop up, I ask: Why?

Well, here's an idea: because I own one, and I'd like to fuck around with it, just for fun.

Surprisingly, some people actually buy the Xbox because they like the games for it. I for one wouldn't spend the exact same money on a PS2 that doesn't come with a hard drive or space for more than two controllers. And I've been a Bungie games fan for almost forever and now the Xbox is the only way to play them.

So, since I have the thing, why not see what else it can do? Maybe be a platform to view internet fansubbed anime on?

Re:Still the question: Why?

[freeweed]

If you're seriously asking why, on a geek-oriented newssite, people want to tinker with their hardware just for the sake of doing so...

I'm afraid any answer you receive will seem just as trivial and nonsensical as the ones you've already quoted.

(or, to take the urban legend Philosophy exam answer: Why Not.)

Re:Still the question: Why?

[caseyc]

From an older ZDnet UK article "Blodget estimates Microsoft will "lose $125 on every Xbox console--and that's before taking into account" sales, marketing and other administrative costs." and that was before they started to cut the price.

There you go -- buying an Xbox could very well be the most damaging action you could take against Microsoft!

Re:Still the question: Why?

[twfry]

Two words: divx player

A modded xbox is 1) cheap 2) looks cool, and most important 3) plays my divx movies served up from the server in the closet. I have yet to see another device that can do that for $250 (xbox plus chip).

People who say you can put somthing together on your own are kidding themselves. I want to see someone put together a machine with a motherboard, decent proc, gpu card, TV OUT, hard drive, ethernet and looks acceptable near the tv for $250. You can't

On the other hand...

[SuperKendall]

The PC can output resolutions of 720p, or whatever "p" you like with a good enough video card - it doesn't need a scan converter because it's already sending progressive video out!

Also, I thought the max HDTV res was 1080i, not p?

Of course, I suppose some sets might not take VGA input. But I had thought most of the ones with any kind of high resolution did.

Re: work with 007 hack

[dhm4]

it was posted @ xbox-hacker.net find the docu @ http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/

I don't understand your fancy moon language!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll have to remember that one to explain delegates to Java programmers!

Re:please

[Anonymous Coward]

However it wouldn't be used as a verb.

Re: work with 007 hack

[robotbrain]

It's on the front page of xbox-scene right now and here and you can download it here

Why is there a need to mod the XBox?

[mnmn]

For the ones among us who do not have an XBox; why should the XBox be modded anyway? Once the CD is inserted and binaries run off it, Linux should just feel easy in an x86 surrounding and take on all the interrupts and memory ranges like in a PC but without a BIOS. Ive heard of Linux running on x86 System-on-chips with no BIOS (therefore not PC compatible).

Or is it that the most privileged level in the CPU belongs to a small program that makes SURE Linux is not running, yet doesnt give a performance hit to the games.

Modders please enlighten us.

Re:Why is there a need to mod the XBox?

[Anonymous Coward]

The xbox won't run unsigned binaries. Hence why you can't boot any CD like on a PC. The mods remove this check. There's only one way to make signed binaries, and that's to use microsoft's dev kit.

Re:Why is there a need to mod the XBox?

[freeweed]

You can't run unsigned binaries on the Xbox; the BIOS won't allow it.

Modding your Xbox basically replaces the BIOS with one that will allow it. And no, there's no way to bypass the BIOS on an Xbox (least not that I've heard of), the machine is hardwired to boot that first - like every other PC out there.

Achs! He Moron!

[Anonymous Coward]

I want something easy to use and configure when I show people Linux or use it myself.

What does that have to do with Red Hat? It sounds like what you're really looking for is to carry around an iBook and set it up next to the person's computer when you're showing them Linux...

Answer about dyne

[burgburgburg]

From http://www.dyne.org/faq.php:

One dyne is the force required to cause a mass of one gram to accelerate at a rate of one centimeter per second squared in the absence of other force-producing effects; A dyne is 100.000 times a newton.
It's a concept defined by Heraclitus, a greek philosopher born at Ephesus around 540 B.C., which once also said that "much learning does not teach understanding".
Panta rei.

No network, no FMV

[yerricde]

Network code is often more than 10 percent of the effort put into a game. I use and like the Allegro library, but networking (handled in DX games by DirectPlay) is outside its scope. Allegro also doesn't do decent-quality full-motion video playback (handled in DX games by DirectShow, the DX interface to Windows Media Player), and an extension to do so won't appear at least until Theora is released.

Re:No network, no FMV

[tomstdenis]

You can write your own networking code that is build ontop of Berkeley sockets. Once you finess that code you will have it available for future games. :-)

As for movies I find they really don't add to games unless they're part of the game directly. The "shiny CG cut scenes" found in most games are just distracting. More so, the best story line animations are normally done with the 3D engine itself anyways.

Tom

Re:No network, no FMV

[molarmass192]

... but Allegro on Windows uses DirectX, so shouldn't the FMV be the same as DX? I can understand it not working as well on non-Win platforms though.

Re:No network, no FMV

[yerricde]

You can write your own networking code that is build ontop of Berkeley sockets.

Winsock 2 is just different enough from BSD's implementation to cause problems. Besides, DirectPlay has chat room functionality built right into the OS.

As for movies I find they really don't add to games unless they're part of the game directly.

When you start Quake III Arena, the first thing you see is an FMV "id Software" logo, followed by an FMV title sequence.

The "shiny CG cut scenes" found in most games are just distracting.

Shiny sells. It's supposed to be distracting; it's a music video background for Dance Dance Revolution. Or would that be "part of the game" as you said?

Why it's a feature

[yerricde]

The remote is a $30 extra that includes a memory card with DVD decoding software. Unfortunately, the DVD decoding software on the remote enforces unskippable scenes, region coding, and Macrovision.

Re:BUSH = RECESSION

[Anonymous Coward]

They clean my swimming pool, isn't that enough reward?

Plus their wives work at my office, and we make them wear short skirts and tell them that if they don't suck our cocks, they will lose their jobs and their shitty health insurance. It's always funny to watch a crying woman suck cock.

RCA composite vs. RCA component

[yerricde]

No. RCA is composite, with three color signals multiplexed onto one pair of wires.

S-Video looks like a PS/2 keyboard connector with fewer pins, and it carries brightness and sync (luma) and color (chroma) on separate pairs. There are still two color signals (redness and blueness) multiplexed, but on the whole, there's more bandwidth available to everything, which makes things look sharper.

Component video breaks the video out into three RCA connectors, each with its own pair: brightness and sync, redness, and blueness. Because there is no more multiplexing, everything looks almost as sharp as on a VGA display.

"Progressive scan" refers to running the video signal twice as fast to be able to draw all 480 lines in one pass rather than drawing 240 even lines in even frames and 240 odd lines in odd frames. This improves sharpness and gets rid of some of the artifacts you see on moving diagonal objects such as the borders of the "key" areas next to the goals in a televised basketball game.

Re:RCA composite vs. RCA component

[Zack]

Oh.. well.. uhhh.. [Witty Retort Goes Here]

Right, component, not composite. Mea culpa.

YCC != RGB

[yerricde]

The PC can output resolutions of 720p, or whatever "p" you like with a good enough video card

Almost. I am not a TV engineer, but I've read that a TV with progressive scan component input expects components in YCC color space (brightness, blue tint, red tint), while the VGA sends components in RGB color space (red intensity, green intensity, blue intensity). There may be mismatched voltage levels and impedances to contend with as well.

Re:YCC != RGB

[DCheesi]

True, the normal (YPbPr) "component video" inputs need a transcoder.However, some TV sets come with RBGHV inputs, which only require a cable adapter to sync to VGA.

What can Blizzard do to prevent it?

[yerricde]

If somebody wanted to distribute fr**cr*ft for Xbox, how would Blizzard be able to stop him?

Trademark? Rename it. I don't think Blizzard would be able to take down "Orc Game II" for trademark reasons.

Copyright? Blizzard owns no exclusive rights in the FC engine or the FCMP content pack.

Patent? 1. Patents have to be applied for, and I know of no evidence that Blizzard has done so. 2. Blizzard never alleged patent infringement in its cease-and-desist letters. 3. Command & Conquer is probably prior art.

Availability? I'm sure at least somebody has a mirror of FC and FCMP.

But, VGA = RGB...

[SuperKendall]

I think though that most HD TV's/Projectors (Well, at least Plasma screens and projectors) now also include VGA inputs, which is what I was vaguely alluding to before.

At least some reviews of Plasma TV's indicate this, and a projector I recently bought is this way...

In fact many of these devices seem to use a technique where any progressive signals have to go through the VGA input and not the component input. I'm not sure if progressive signals are no longer YCC, or if it's just easier to handle the progressive signal through one port and auto-switch between YCC and RGB signals coming through the same plug.

The crying shame of this system is that progressive signals need to go into a different plug than interlaced signals (at least it's that way on my projector). No game system handles this situation well at all, in that they sometimes use 480p and sometimes 480i (to varying degrees, the PS2 almost always is 480i unless a specific game supports it). At least my DVD player I can leave in progressive mode all the time.

Perhaps some plasma TV's are kinder and let you send interlaced signals through the VGA port as well.

Might be cool, but illegal.

[R Ward Ralston]

Just wanted to point out that it is a violation of the MS licensing agreement to distubute this product: "No Xbox software product(s) may be published, or distributed to end users, except by a licensed publisher pursuant to an Xbox development kit and Xbox publisher license agreement executed by Microsoft."

Re:Might be cool, but illegal.

[iainl]

OK, you might want to try explaining this again, in simpler terms.

To violate a license agreement, even a click through one, you have to have agreed to it in some way, shape or form.

Surely only licensed publishers will have signed the the publishing license, and so everyone who is actually beholden to the license terms is then incapable of breaking those terms anyway?

why the xbox

[timothy]

Good question :)

1) For me (mechanically inept, tin ear), I think the Xbox works out as the best deal. $150 for processor, RAM, DVD drive, hard drive in a not-outrageously large case. I also spent $150 less-smart dollars on a mediocre LCD screen which (rather nifty, IMO) latches on the Xbox, making it chunkier but also now "complete." If I wanted to, I could watch movies on it, that is.

2) The screen is also my point number two. Some sort of interface is going to be necessary for any in-car computer. Small LCD screens are pricey, most a lot pricier than the clip-on one I bought. If I was more geniuslike, I would love a custom heads-up display attuned to my biorhthyms, with speech recognition etc, but alas.

3) Yes, it may not be everyone's cup of milk, but I like the idea of hardware designed for one purpose being used to do something else. ("Use the right hardware for the job!" I hear some compulsive types indignantly complain. Feh.)

I have a mini-ITX system which I (mostly) love, it's one of two main systems, and it would make a fine car computer, too. However, the kludgy invertor is already installed under my passenger seat, so that part's taken care of. Plus, I'd still need a screen somewhere, and the nice little 640x480 LCD screens are expensive, 800x600 even more so. Depending on your skill and what's already lying around, an Xbox might be a *stupid* car computer, but I'm hoping for me it's going to be slightly less stupid.

timothy

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

Hanzo San is a known troll, and works for the RIAA.

Re:I don't understand your fancy moon language!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll have to remember that one to explain delegates to Java programmers?

missing the point

[Hatta]

The point is not that you would want to use linux instead of playing games, but that this makes the x-box an affordable and effective linux box for those not interested in playing games.

From the Dyne:bolic User's Guide:

I hope you enjoy using those beasts for something more useful than what they are made for: after all XBOX is about a CHEAP pentium celeron 733, 8Gigs of harddisk and nvidia chipset everywhere; dedicated to everybody who loves reusing hardware leftovers.

I'm not a big gamer, but with this and Xbox Media Player an xbox is looking like a more attractive purchase. Especially considering M$ sells these things at a loss.

Unfortunately...

[Anonymous Coward]

One more reason to mod an xbox.

Alas, still no reasons to buy one...
But if I had one (say I took pity on some poor Ethiopian kid trying to trade one for food), you can bet I'd really want to mod it now.

Good Xbox hacking book: "% Hacking the Xbox"

[hedley]

"Bunnie" Huang has written a great book on reverse engineering BTW. Specifically the Xbox but there are lots of cool hardware tips that are applicable anywhere.

Check it out!

Bunnie's website

I have no affiliation with it blah,blah etc

Hedley

oh?

[Potpatriot]

Nigger Jesus! I am in love again!

The mike for Live, oh yes. Ta.

[iainl]

Aaah, I'd forgotten about the microphone on the controller for Live. It plugs in the memory card slot on the controller; presumably this kareoke device will also go in the controller ports when its released.

Interesting but no one RTFM...

[Dolemite_the_Wiz]

...(Once again).

To produce this CD you need a Linux box (and only a linux box) to create the disk.

This is really pretty worthless if you have a different flavor of Unix (can you say porting nightmare), a Mac, or a Windows Box.

Dolemite
____________________

dyne:bolic & knoppix

[jaromil]

dyne:bolic and knoppix are both CD bootable distributions, but they are quite different

(and i'm glad it is so, we don't have a duplicate effort here)

i try to go thru it as i see it:

1) dyne:bolic has no compiler and no package manager - it is out of the box, you don't change it and you cannot add software

2) you can't install dyne:bolic, it just runs from the CD and you'll be soon able to save settings on floppy, usb-dongle or a file on your HD

3) dyne:bolic is compiled from scratch with a gcc 3.2 and optimized for i586 MMX, while knoppix is a i386 debian build

4) dyne:bolic doesn't includes duplicate applications to solve the same task, limits the choice to what I (the Mantainer) think is the best. It's a kind of slackware approach: i love Patrick Volkerding way to do it and i hope somebody will love me too :) and it helps to keep the distro smaller.

5) knoppix is more for office use (besides the customizations of it, like the MAME you mention) while dyne:bolic is more multimedia oriented (see the applications included)

6) you have free space in dyne:bolic CDs so that you can customize it and include video or sound

7) dyne:bolic includes dyne.org softwares

i'm surely not mentioning all i should mention here and probably i'm not depicting all the functionalities knoppix has more than dyne:bolic, but at the end i'm not really selling anything - it's all free so, i hope you enjoy variety :)

i'm just wondering if knoppix will be bootable on XBOX or not