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Verizon Drops Opposition To Cell-Number Portability
EyesWideOpen writes "Verizon has announced (NYTimes - free registration required) that it would drop its opposition to the proposed F.C.C plan that would allow callers to keep their wireless phone numbers when they switch carriers. Verizon, the nation's largest mobile phone company, was seen as 'the standard-bearer of the opposition against wireless number portability' but has shifted it's position citing the recent court ruling as the reason for doing so. The F.C.C has set a deadline of November 24 for it's rules to take effect. Other mobile phone companies such as Cingular Wireless and AT&T Wireless are still expected to appeal the court ruling. Several previous stories on number portability here(1), here(2), here(3), here(4), and here(5)."
Finally... I'm so sick of having to either change my phone number or pay higher rates every year when my contract runs up. Now when there's a better calling plan for me I can take my phone number with me so I don't have to give a new number out to 700 different people :D
Maybe now instead of holding our phone numbers hostage, the phone companies will actually have to offer better plans to keep our business. Mmmmm more minutes for less money = more money for beer... Mmmmm beer.
I have often regretted my speech, never my silence.
-Xenocrates
Re-write the cell-phone numbers in Java...dial once, talk anywhere or something like that, isn't that why they're putting Java on all the phones?
Slashdot, the site where everything's made up and the points don't matter
With SBC's massive marketing force, I don't see how in the world this will ever go through.
nopass:nopass
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
June 25, 2003
Verizon Quits Fight on Rule for Cellphone Numbers
By MATT RICHTEL
Verizon Wireless said yesterday that it would drop its opposition to a government plan to allow callers to keep their wireless phone numbers when they switch carriers. The about-face by Verizon Wireless, the nation's largest mobile phone company, probably means that some other mobile phone operators will have little choice but to yield to the arrangement.
Verizon, which has led a protracted, industrywide effort to prevent the Federal Communications Commission from requiring that cellphone numbers be portable from provider to provider, said it now supported F.C.C. rules scheduled to take effect on Nov. 24 and would end its legal and legislative campaign against them.
Several competitors in the wireless industry said they were surprised by Verizon's announcement and would continue to fight against the changes even without Verizon's cooperation. The industry has argued that the F.C.C. lacks the legal authority to impose portability, and that carrying out the rules would cost it hundreds of millions of dollars.
But in a speech yesterday in New York at a conference for industry analysts, Dennis Strigl, the president and chief executive of Verizon Wireless, said it was time for mobile phone carriers to "stop moaning and groaning" about the portability requirement.
Mr. Strigl said the timing of the announcement was related to a decision earlier this month by a federal appeals court rejecting the industry's argument. The wireless companies contended that the portability requirement was not necessary to protect consumers. "The case was lost in court and now it's time to get on with providing customers with what we believe they want," Mr. Strigl said in an interview. "We're wasting too much time on this."
Roger Entner, a wireless industry analyst with the Yankee Group, a market research firm, characterized Verizon's change in policy as "a 180-degree turn" that removed the single biggest obstacle to portability.
Verizon, he said, had been "the standard-bearer of the opposition against wireless number portability." And now it has "basically turned into the biggest proponent," he said.
Mr. Entner added that Verizon appeared to shift because the legal and legislative options were running out and it did not want to seem like a sore loser. "This means there is no major opposition on the carrier side to portability," he said.
That conclusion was echoed by Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, who has been pressing the Senate to support portability and reject the wireless industry's delaying efforts. "It pretty much ensures that by November there will be portability," Mr. Schumer said, noting that Verizon had been particularly aggressive in lobbying Congress to prevent the F.C.C. from imposing the requirement.
Mr. Entner and other industry analysts say portability will increase the number of customers who switch wireless carriers â" a trend that is already common and costly to the industry. Of the 145 million cellphone subscribers at the end of March, 40 million to 45 million will switch carriers this year, Mr. Entner said. If portability were in place, 10 million to 12 million more could be expected to switch, he said.
Mr. Entner predicted that the cost to the industry of portability would be $2 billion annually for subsidizing new handsets, activating service and paying sales commissions.
The F.C.C. has maintained that portability will be good for competition. But last July, at the industry's urging, it agreed to delay the effective date of the regulations until this coming November. It was the third such delay by the commission.
Jennifer Bowcock, a spokeswoman for Cingular Wireless, one of the companies that said they would continue to resist the requirement, said Cingular opposed portability because there were more important matters the industry should spend money on, like investments in building the wireless network.
Mark
..that its complying? How is this news? I mean, whats the worst Verizon can do to the gov? Would someone enlighten me, here?
"The most looniest, zaniest, spontaneous, sporadic Impulsive thinker, compulsive drinker, addict"
It's obviously a move to gain consumer support and get customers to switch. Now that they've got their opposition fighting the FCC, they can say: "Look, we're the biggest PROPONENTS of cell number portability, and our competition is still fighting it. So switch to us!"
I'm sick to death cell carriers and their sleaziness -- it's like the long distance carrier battles of the 90s all over again. You guys offer a commodity product, compete on price because nothing else differentiates you anymore.
My journal has hot
This is good news for the consumer. I've held off switching carriers precisely because I would be forced to get a new number - losing the one everyone's used to reaching me at. Yeah, yeah, I could try to update people, but yer always gonna miss someone. Hopefully this will encourage the carriers to improve their service to stay competitive rather than relying on customers who are locked in.
What my vonage service needs to do is offer a portability type service, where I can get VoiP mobile....having 1 number for both home and cell, while still taking advantage of VoiP and my 25.99 flat rate fee. My cel phone is almost DOUBLE what my vonage at home bill is :(
Will this increase competition and lower the monthly rates? I know i'll be going back to voicestream (with my current sprint phone #) once this gets going
Why can't these moronic telco fuckers use DNS?!!!
Just pretend you're GOOGLE NEWS.
read the very bottom of this:
Verizon
apparently there is still a bill in congress that may delay the number change date.
As an employee of Cingular wireless, I can say that we're preparing our backend system to be able to do this. I believe all of the systems are in place, but that they're just testing the system. This could definatly spur competition in the cellular industry, and my completely unbiased (yeah, right) opinion tells me it will work to our advantage by driving more customers to us.
Intelligent Updater:
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Virus Definitions released June 24
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Extended Version: 6/24/2003 rev. 4
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it should be Here(0),Here(1),Here(2),Here(3),Here(4)
I've been stuck in it for a few months now, and frankly, I don't see anything happening anytime soon after this ruling. It's going to take at least a whole year!
</rantish post>
1. You can't port your number between providers.
Elsewhere, you can port your numbers in days with just a couple of phone calls.
2. You have to ditch your handset if you do switch providers.
In the rest of the world, phones have SIM cards (small smart cards). To change provider all you have to do is get a new SIM card, which costs around $7-15, depending on the provider that you're switching to.
3. You have to pay for the priviledge of being contacted.
Elsewhere, Caller Party Pays (CPP) is standard. If your boss calls you and jabbers on for an hour why should you foot the bill?
4. Numbers are geographically fixed.
Elsewhere, mobile numbers are non-geographic, which means that if you have to move from one end of the country to another, your mobile number doesn't have to change. Indeed, in most countries you can tell if you're calling a mobile number because it will have a unique, non-geographical area code - eg, in the UK all mobile numbers begin with 07xxx.
Seriously, mobile telephony seems to be one area where the US is playing catch-up.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Which leads me to question: Is Verizon just recognizing the situation was hopeless and acting responsibly/accordingly, or are they disarming their enemies only to lobby at the last minute for something (exhorbitant fees, special restrictions) and getting it passed while everyone else is fumbling? Or are they using their switch to gain some advantage over their wireless competitors(2. ??? 3. Profit)?
It's obvious that the anti-portability crowd all have their roots as monopolistic phone companies. Their out look is always pessimistic, that every change will result in customers leaving.
They should be looking at these changes as OPPORTUNITIES to GAIN market share, not as changes that will eat their lunch. If they don't change their outlook they will be crushed by competitors.
Apparently Verizon won't be charging any fee for number portability. That might light the fire under the other telcos to do the same to remain attractive...........
...but I'll bite. Dude the easiest way to get mod'd down on Slashdot is to say ANYTHING against the U.S. government; The U.S. Governement, mind you, NOT the people of the United States of America, who are by the way, mostly very nice folks (I know I'm a Canadian) So why do you get mod'd down on /. for saying things about the U.S. government? I can't say, but I'm guessing it's just ignorance... or blind stupid patriotism.
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Nextel is a great example of marketing a technically inferior product as superior. And they seem to be successful at it.
The Push To Talk function takes a perfectly good full-duplex cell phone and turns it into a half-duplex walkie-talkie. They even give you a thicker and heavier phone to keep up the illusion!
Nextel fans like to point out that PTT is built into the IDEN network, and other carriers can never offer such a feature. TMobile, however, offers unlimited mobile to mobile calling for $10. You get full duplex all the way with TMobile.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/128055_port ability25.html
Not playing catch up.
They're playing "run from the dinosaur", since they're still in Mobile Telecommunications stone age.
/. Where the truth
This is really a surprise. I have no idea what Verizon is thinking. At least around here Verizon has, in my opinion, the worst service available (and, I'm qualified to make that assessment by the virtue of knowing them back when they called themselves Bell Atlantic/NYNEX mobile), and you'd expect them to oppose anything that would make it easier for their captive customers to flee to the dozens of available competitors.
First of all, they charge for their phones. AT&T, Sprint, and others give you a free phone with a service contract. Then, their phones are crap. Twice did my phone crap out after the warranty period expired. Each time they made me pay for a replacement phone, and locked me into another contract. On two other occasions the phone blew up while it was still under warranty. Each time, I had to wait two weeks to get the phone back, and neither time would they give me a loaner, so I was without service all that time.
Finally, last year I told them to screw off. Yes, I had to get a new number, oh well. My current contract expires in October, and I'm really looking forward to the Nov 24 date.
Just for laughs, last year I went into a local Verizon dealer. He tried to sell me a phone for sixty bucks, and a two-year contract. I told him the AT&T guy across the street is giving out free phones, with a one-year contract. The Verizon guy tried to tell me that you get what you're paying for. I just laughed, and went across the street.
I don't really know what Verizon is thinking. Maybe they think that their marketing can overcome their shitty service.
I've been reasonably happy with Verizon -- I started out with PrimeCo (Dallas), and was expecting the worst when the former GTE took over (having had bad technical experiences with GTE as a local telco).
I was pretty peeved last year, though. I wanted to upgrade my wife's phone to a BREW-enabled handset (for Christmas), but my contract wasn't close enough to expiration. I spent quite a while talking to customer service reps and told them that as soon as Number Portability came in November 2003, I was outta there.
The rep's response was, "What's 'Number Portability'?"
I suspect that this issue is way below Jo(e) Consumer's radar screen... especially if the carriers' own reps don't yet have a scripted answer to the concept. But that won't last long! By making a U-Turn on the portability issue, Verizon is now poised to spend the next five months "educating" the consumer about their upcoming portability rights... regardless of whether their competitors are on board.
Imagine the buzz to be generated by a full-page ad from Verizon: Cingular, Sprint, and AT&T want to lock you in. Verizon is fighting to set you free. For once, good business sense happens to be on the right side of the debate.
By the way, I'm over my tiff with Verizon. I ended up upgrading (with a a cheapie phone) when the contract expired, so I'm with 'em another couple of years, come hell or high water.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Actually his post get wiped because it was sooooo offtopic (talking about lack of weapons of mass destruction and Bush's credibility), but now mine looks Extra offtopic... Doh!
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Yes, other providers are going to implement it. Sprint and Verizon have already announced their plans (http://news.com.com/2100-1033-984780.html?tag=mai nstry) as has AT&T (http://infoworld.com/article/03/02/26/HNattsprint _1.html)
Providers other than Nextel are referring to it as "Push-To-Talk (PTT or P2T)".
That means they just thought of an even better way to screw us.
Yeah, but in the U.S. we have big guns and are not afraid to use them... When the time comes, we'll just blast your puny, European satelites out of the skies (which, of course, rightfully belong to the U.S.)!
I recall when phone number portability became free in the UK. My father's mobile phone bill dropped by 300UKP per month switching from the old ripoff tariff he'd been stuck to for years because his businesscards all used that number, to a new provider and tariff. So since mobile phone calls are a significant cost to most businesses these days, this change should benefit most US businesses (except telecoms =P) Most of my friends change providers every 1 or 2 years to whichever gives them the best handset and tariff combination. If you have a high value call plan. you can get some pretty nifty handsets free.
Keeping your cell phone when switching service!
I have a drawer full of old cell phones that I paid THOUSANDS of dollars for over the years. Around here cell companies pop up and fold up just as quick. NONE of the local companies here have decent service or rates.
So people here, me included switch service trying to go with the best one.
"We're sorry, you can't use *their* phone with out service, you'll have to buy a NEW phone from *us* to use with our service."
I would really like to see a stop put to this sort of thing too. And when company X packs up and leaves town you can't sell your old phone to anyone for use with any other company.
That's the REAL pisser about switching service!
There are several articles covering this story. Verizon states that it would cost around $0.15 per month to allow for Local Number Portability (LNP). Other carriers seem, according to the stories, to charge $1.50 - $2.00 per month for it.
Verizon now things the cost is low enough that the carriers should just absorb it. How much are you willing to pay for this ability?
Me, I think it should not be a monthly additional fee.
If we're not going to get out cheap-ish VOIP equipment, why not use some sort of a Phone DNS.
Have a number 1-800-DNS-HOME or something and have an ID. No matter what new carrier you have, you jsut call up and goto administrator on your acct and change the phone pointer.
Yeah, it'll cost, but Verizon, Cingular, et al, wont complain as they cant.
What I would like to see are shorter contract terms. WHY should I be locked into a 1 or 2 year contract with an early termination fee? You don't see that on just about any other consumer service (including land-line phones). As a matter of fact, I remember reading somewhere that they *can't* legally do that (after a certain amount of time), anyone care to enlighten me?
if number portability becomes a reality, what's to stop the phone companies from saying, "Oh, you want to keep the number you had with Verizion? That's fine, sir. I'll just go ahead and add the $50 transfer fee to your bill." Is there any provision in the FCC's mandate that prevents the companies from gouging customers in order to make up for their supposed $2B in losses due to portability?
In Soviet Russia, all our base are belong to you!
From the article:
"The case was lost in court and now it's time to get on with providing customers with what we believe they want." - Dennis Strigl, the president and chief executive of Verizon Wireless
It's nice to see Verizon openly admit that thier first priority is themselves, not their customers.
My
Limekiller
1) true, but that is going to change. Its all about lockin, and the FCC has said thats bad. So our government is stepping in to make it right.
2)I do not have a cell phone anymore, so things may have changed. When I did have a cell phone, they just replaced a chip when I switched providers.
3)Because the callers may not know there being charged. here is to numbers (324)543-0937 and (657)987-3275 which one is the cell number?
4)My coworker ho recently moved from the other coast still use there same service, with the same number. numbers are allocated per region, do to size of the country, number allocation schemes, etc. please remember the we have states larger then european countries.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Well, considering that I have a "national" plan on my cell phone, I don't really need to change my phone number if I move, every call to or from my phone is a local call as long as I am within the USA. I spent more than half of this year in Boston and Philadelphia, while retaining my NJ-area-code number.
As for the rest of your comments. I agree wholeheartedly.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
I cant wait to finally be able to switch phone networks. Ive been waiting forever for SprintPCS to offer a Bluetooth phone, instead they give me a phone with a crappy camera.
Who really uses that crappy camera!?
I call the SprintPCS store monthly, and I always get the same answer, "what the hell are talking about?", or "Ive never heard of Bluetooth"
So frustrating....
In the rest of the world, phones have SIM cards (small smart cards). To change provider all you have to do is get a new SIM card, which costs around $7-15, depending on the provider that you're switching to.
Some, but by no means all, phones here have SIM cards. And you *can* use them to switch providers, it's just that most providers give you a free or very very cheap phone when you sign up for a new service agreement, and it's often got newer technology/features/styles than the old phone you were previously carrying around, so most people just don't bother.
My journal has hot
I'm really confused about this, because I don't quite understand how phone numbers are bought and sold by companies.
Say I get broadband at home from Bob's Broadband. I get a static IP address of 1.2.3.4. Later on I decide I can get a better price from Joe's Broadband. I switch, and they give me the IP address 5.6.7.8. This is unfair! Why can't I keep my 1.2.3.4 IP address?!
Anyone who can tell a router from a hole in the ground knows the answer to this one - Bob's Broadband owns the subset of IP addresses in which 1.2.3.4 is located. If I were to keep my IP address and sign up with Joe's Broadband, there would be a lot of awkward router configuration going on at both ISP's.
Likewise, if a cellular provider buys a block of phone numbers, can they have them taken away without any compensation? I know my cellular contract doesn't say I own the number, it just says I get to use it. Can somebody fill me in?
grep -ri 'should work'
I wonder if Canadian carriers will adopt a similar policy in the near future?
I hate having to stick with one carrier, their shitty plans and their crummy phones because I don't want to change phone numbers.
I'd also like to see companies let you bring over your old phone from a different carrier.
Down with restrictions!
"..it will have a unique, non-geographical area code - eg, in the UK all mobile numbers begin with 07xxx."
Ok, I must have missed something here. If it's non-geographical, but all UK numbers are assigned 07xxx...hm. Well shit, _my_ brain is fried.
--- What
4. Numbers are geographically fixed.
eg, in the UK all mobile numbers begin with 07xxx
From the Cia World Fact Book:
United Kingdom: slightly smaller than Oregon
We are talking about much smaller areas here. The US is such a big country, with a lot of landmass, it is a lot harder to manage.
Billing: Another thing to think about in the number portability, is billing. For instance, I get my phone in NY, then swith providers when I move to CA and port my number. So know when I dial someplace in CA, with a NY number is that Roaming, how is the billing computed? When my friends call me from NY, they pay a local call, but how is the billing computed? That is going to be one of the major stumbling blocks to this.
To E-mail me, replace the first period in my domain with an @
NOT TRUE... STOP. IN US WE HAVE GREAT WAYS TO SEND MESSAGE... STOP. MUCH ADVANCED HERE... STOP.
Carrier's already have problems with their respective services and now everyone expects this to just work perfectly because the FCC says so.
I wouldn't port my number unless absolutely necessary. I think people will have a lot less trouble if they just cut their losses and go with a new number. Keep the old number's voice mail in service for a month or so and leave the new number as the message.
Yeah, but in the U.S. we have big guns and are not afraid to use them... When the time comes, we'll just blast your puny, European satelites out of the skies (which, of course, rightfully belong to the U.S.)!
Gee, how nice of you. Is it any wonder that even South Korea thinks that the US presents a greater threat to world peace than North Korea does?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
In response to number 2, one of the biggest problems with doing that in the US is the multiple networks for cell phones, well do have some GSM providers, but unlike Europe that's not all there is, we also do PCS and CDMS and TDMA.
PCS is proprietary so there's no switching phones from or to that service.
I had GSM service with Voicestream and now AT&T is rolling out/has rolled out GSM service so I should have been able to switch to them if I still had a cell phone by simply swapping my SIM card.
And analog is still the only option available in large parts of the wilderness which Voicestream didn't support when I was a customer because they're digital only.
Hey, it's great I can keep my same number now, though I don't like the one I have; Mnmeonics are crappy with this one.
I'd rather be able to have PHONE poratability between providers though.
Personally I'm getting tired of dishing out for a new phone every time.
Just once, I'd like it if someone called me "Sir".
Without adding, "You're creating a scene."
In reply to 4, why can't mobile numbers be allocated out of a single bank of codes? You have 1-800 and 1-900 numbers, why don't you have 1-700 to 1-799 numbers for mobiles, and allocate out of all of them?
This handily solves the problem of 3.
re 1: in the Czech Republic, for instance, we can't transfer our number to a different provider (I haven't even heard of any plans in this regard)
re 4: in Europe, numbers are geographically fixed on the level of the countries, which matters if you're moving inside the EU
Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
Sign On San Diego article.
1. On behalf of the rest of us, I'd like to welcome US mobile operators and their customers to the 21st century.
2. That's only true for some handsets. I don't have a breakdown of the numbers but too many US mobiles are locked into one operator.
A quick poll I took amongst some US friends found that most of them couldn't swap providers without swapping handsets. You'd have to look very, very hard to find someone here in the UK that you could say that about.
3. See the comment I made in point 4 of my original post. People can tell it's your mobile they're calling you on because of its area code.
4. I can use my phone in virtually every country in Europe. If dozens (maybe 100+) of European providers can come up with a system that works from one end of the continent to another, why can't a handful of US providers do the same?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
What has land mass got to do with it? Work it out mathmatically; how many numbers are available in the range 07000 000 000 to 07999 999 999? How many would be available in the range 1-700-000-000 to 1-799-999-999?
If you have a non-geographic number (E.g. an area code that is not tied to a specific city) then billing is a non-issue, and Calling Part Pays is also a complete no-brainer.
Translation: Verizon has the most money to spend on lawyers and lobbyists.
Yet another euro trying to make up for his inferiority complex.
PacBell had SIM cards on their phones. It just didn't catch on and they abandoned it.
Local calls are free in the US. Your cellphone appears just as if it were a local phone. People typically buy cellphones so THEY are reachable when THEY want to be - not because they want other people to be able to reach them when those OTHER PEOPLE want to.
And here in the US if your boss calls you and yacks on you tell him to buzz off because it's a cellphone instead of stupidly hanging on. You also get the first minute of incoming calls free so you can answer the phone and decide whether it's a call you want to take.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Gee, how nice of you. Is it any wonder that even South Korea thinks that the US presents a greater threat to world peace than North Korea does?
Yeah, a lunatic minority does. Kinda like the teenage kids who want to get tattoos just to rebel against their parents.
As soon as the US pushes to get its troops out of there though they come begging us to stay.
> 1. You can't port your number between providers. This is true, and is a direct result of the FCC allowing different technologies to compete and develop on their own. It's easy to say cell infrastructure would be more advanced (and certainly more cohesive) here if the FCC had come up with a standard to use in the first place. However, by allowing TDMA, CDMA, GSM to compete allowed us (and you guys) to help figure out which one worked best. It also led to other advances, such as Qualcomm's use of orthongal codes and wave division multiplexing. Also, free and almost unbridled competition is something the U.S. has always prized itself on, even if it does have the disadvantage slowing down an overall infrastructure or idea. > 2. You have to ditch your handset if you do switch providers. Same as the last one. Which sucks. My phone has a SIM card (both T-Mobile and Cingular offer them now), but I agree, I wish more phones had more. > 3. You have to pay for the priviledge of being contacted. Yeah, not that we're getting ripped off -- the person being called is still using the phone companie's bandwidth. But like landlines, I would like to see the caller pay. We all just assume if this happened, the rates would double since you pay only half the time :)
> 4. Numbers are geographically fixed.
Keep in mind the U.S. has a lot of land area, so a lot of the older plans had this drawback, especially when there were a lot of smaller (regional) phone companies. But that's pretty much resolved now... although the first three numbers of our cell numbers are indicitive of where you purchased your phone, we still have nationwide plans readily available.
Anywho, yeah, the U.S. is behind just about every other nation. I'd imagine once a standard is reached between the big players (hopefully), we'll catch up quick. We just all need to adopt GSM...
The Push-To-Talk feature of Nextel's service has never really attracted the average user, but it's been a huge selling point for business customers. Think of construction sites or warehouses where you might use a walkie-talkie, and replace it with an inexpensive system that lets you two-way with anyone regarless of their location..
AND, lets you choose one-to-one communication, or one-to-many. You can use the same device to call Joe that you use to talk amongst a group of five people, totally ad-hoc.
I'm guessing you didn't notice the sarcasm dripping from that statement???
What's really the difference here between telling the cell phone companies "screw your prefix-based infrastructures, be able to accept anyone's phone numbers on your system" and telling ISPs "screw your silly notions of IP address blocks, be able to accept anyone's IP address on your system".
I have a block of static IPs from my ISP. If I change ISPs, according to the logical conclusion of this ruling, I should be able to keep my block of IP addresses.
Doesn't that raise any alarm bells? Doesn't that just sound preposterous, insane?
"Oh," you say. "But we have DNS! You just point your DNS to your new IP addresses (and reconfigure all your machines, etc). There is no DNS for phone numbers! So there!"
Uh... we _do_ have DNS for phone numbers. It's called "The Telephone Book", also known as "Directory Assistance" or "411", etc. Maybe we should be working on a better way to dial people up based on unchanging things like their names, kept and distributed much in the same way as DNS. You register your name with the phone company as your registrar and they assign you a phone number out of the block of phone numbers they have available. Anyone dialing "MORTAR COMBAT 123" would first hit a global registry (if the local registry didn't have a cache hit) saying that "Oh, Verizon is the registrar for "MORTAR COMBAT 123" at this time, and the request hits Verizon's registry which 'dials' the current physical phone number. Perhaps you pay a fee to the global registrar (through your local registrar) for this registration service.
If you change telephone providers, you should change phone numbers because provider infrastructure is set up based on rules of blocks of numbers. Following this path of 'take your number with you' leads into a nasty den of big, big trouble for IP addresses and ISPs because the law will make no distinction based on "technical difficulties" which it doesn't understand.
A phone number isn't some ethereal label -- it is a formatted number in which prefixes mean something significant, and upon which billions of dollars of infrastructure has been built.
MORTAR COMBAT!
I have a month to month contrat with sprint i got, 4-5 years ago. I believe its still available, but the tend to bury it under all the contract stuff, and you baicaly wind up paying 10 bucks more. ALso, they have commercial/busisness plans that are month to month.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
All of their commercials tout "nationwide coverage", yet they have a reputation for bad coverage in Atlanta too.
... what about the impact such a precedent sets for e-mail addresses? Let's say that I was using the e-mail address 'MORTAR_COMBAT@earthlink.net' because I had Earthlink as an ISP. But I want to change to MSN as an ISP but keep my e-mail address. Imagine the problems it would cause if the government required both that Earthlink must allow me to take my e-mail address with me, and that MSN must now host that e-mail address?
MORTAR COMBAT!
2. It's not a fundamental problem with a system. For example, when sprint came in with their digital system and stopped using analog they kinda broke the standard, and were providing better service. It's just when you switched to their service you had to have a phone that supported their protocol.
4. Cingular provides nationwide access as well as service in Canada. That's more land than Europe. I can't think of any of the other big services where plans aren't at least nationwide.
You can't go back to voicestream - they don't exist anymore (they are T-Mobile now).
. there used to be a sig here.....
In my experience, people who use sarcasm on Slashdot (such as myself, from time to time) like to show off how clever they are and don't post as ACs.
The people who do post as ACs generally do mean what they say but don't have the guts/balls/courage to admit that they're that dumb/childish/backward - that's where the "Coward" in "Anonymous Coward" comes from.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
C'mon USA, get it sorted out. Then you can be plagued by mobile-phone twats shouting "I'm on the train" on trains too!
3. See the comment I made in point 4 of my original post. People can tell it's your mobile they're calling you on because of its area code.
That's not necessarily true, cell #'s can have the same area code as any other landline number in an area. However they do have seperate exchange number - as they need to have that. - but really, why is that such a problem?
2. It's a problem if you can't wake up one morning and say "screw x, I'm gonna switch to y" without having to go out and spend a pile of cash buying a brand new handset and thus get screwed yourself.
4. One provider? That's not exactly a lot of choice is it? What happens if it's that one provider that you don't want to do business with? Or when they hike their prices on you? The words "shit", "creek" and "paddle" spring to mind.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
That's very true...I didn't actually see the originating post (below my threshold) but instead saw only your quote of it so didn't know it came from an AC.
That taken into consideration, you may be right...I DESPERATELY hope you aren't, but you may be...
PCS is market speak. AT&T calls their GSM network "PCS" as well. I'm not positive what the technical name for Sprint's network is, but it's definitely CDMA technology. It's just a slightly different frequency than Verizon.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Or they're just like me, that is, an extremely infrequent poster who only posts when he feels he has something to contribute, sarcastic or otherwise. No reason to have an account so I can say 3-5 things per year and have them attributed to me for simple vanity. No, I'm not the original poster, just letting you know there's another possibility.
Let's see what S Korea thinks about world piece if we pull our 35000 troops out of S Korea, and they get to sit there facing the N Korean nukes by themselves.
Somehow, I don't think the DMZ will come down like the Berlin wall did. I would guess not until there is a reasonable, educated, non-power freak running N Korea.
Look at this: http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?id=599
SIM cards exist in the USA, the only problem is they can't be used to switch providers in most areas because in most parts of the country T-Mobile is the only provider in the area who uses GSM technology.
The reason why you can't use your old Cingular phone to sign up for Verizon's service is because in most markets Cingular uses TDMA while Verizon uses CDMA. Simply incompatible, and the providers love this because it makes it harder for you to switch when you want to. They can soak you on the rate plan you're already on rather than have to match the rate offer "the other guy" is offering new subscribers because there's a noticible cost associated with a switch of providers.
Jeez, talk about insular (as it were).
You're living in a country where you can drive from one end to the other in a day. Here in the US you can drive for a day and still be in the same STATE.
The amount of money required to build a network into a country this size means you'll actually get regional networks that interoperate.
The great thing about this is that in just one country you can experiment with all the technology. The bad thing about this is that once the technology's in place the owner (AKA "Vested Interest with Captive Government Employees") will do anything possible to stay in place with no further investment.
We're not playing catch-up, we're playing "what will you pay for the next bew thing?"
668: Neighbour of the Beast
When cell number portability finally gets rolling, I highly doubt that it will be nationwide portability. If anything, It'll be rolled out in stages as has been done with land-line service. Within your LATA maybe? The technology to do it natinally isn't there just yet. The nationwide interconnect agreements that would have to be drawn up between SS7 carriers would take an enormous amount of time
it's just that most providers give you a free or very very cheap phone when you sign up for a new service agreement,
Orange and Virgin in the UK have a contract with no standing charges. if you sign up using your own phone it costs less than £30(I cant remember exactly) for the sim card and if you never make a call you never ever pay a bill
**** lying is wrong even for sleeping dogs
You know what, at first I thought, "Yeah, that does suck." But then I began thinking some more, and then realized that paying for incoming calls is to OUR ADVANTAGE.
Why? Because it's a way to prevent phone spam. I don't get telemarketers *because* I'm paying for the time. If caller pays, you'd bet we'll get telemarketing calls 24x7 on our cel phones. Sorry, but I'd prefer to pay up than take those calls.
" Seriously, mobile telephony seems to be one area where the US is playing catch-up." You forget that we're sometimes content to be behind in the US, no catch up playing needed. Look at the metric system as another example. :)
Note: When I say we, I don't mean me personally.
Mod parent up. You just can't have mobile phone networks in the US like you do in (especially Western) Europe, because of the population sparsity. I'm not terribly familiar with the companies/networks in Europe, but if I'm not mistaken you can get a phone from Orange only in the UK, with a UK country code on it...how is this different from being forced to have a NY state area code on your phone?
Here in Sweden we've had number portability for a while now. I've switched providers twice allready. There is only one real problem in my experience. You don't know which network the people you're calling are on and most service providers have different rates depending on whether your call stays inside their network or not. Thus, I cannot know what my call will cost. :-/ Before portability, you could tell from the number.
IAAAL - I am actually a lawyer
I ran into an issue with this the other day. I live in area code 978-448 and my mobile was 978-506 which was a free call. All of a sudden a call from 448 to 506 became a toll call. Verizon Wireless told me that in order to get ready for number portability they had to disable reverse billing. Reverse billing was how the 448 to 506 call was handled.
On the good side, Verizon wireless changed my number to a 302 exchange (free call from 448) in a few minutes with no hassle.
So you may have to change your number one more time if you want to have your mobile be toll-free from your home.
And look at what the EU government mandates have done to the European carriers.
UMTS has proven to be a nightmare for every carrier that has implemented it. NTT DoCoMo tried to roll out UMTS and their name is now mud in Japan because of people getting their hands burned by handsets that consumed too much power. GSM isn't too hot either. oops...
Meanwhile, in the USA, the best technology (CDMA) won over GSM. Every GSM provider in the nation is struggling. Meanwhile Verizon, a CDMA provider, is managing to charge 1.5 times as much per minute or more than the others because of the fact that they have superior coverage and call quality.
Yes, I'm a Verizon customer. Yes, I'm paying much more per minute than I would on Cingular or AT&T. Yes, I'm glad I am when I can use my phone and a Cingular or AT&T customer wouldn't get coverage for miles.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Mobile phone racket ??? Now you want a mobile phone with a tennis racket built into it? You crazy kids these days...
AT&T dropped a notice to me in the mail saying they are charging their customers $2 per month to handle the costs of the new mandated features.
PCS isn't a competing system. It's just what Sprint calls their CDMA system.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
As in more than one different company with more than one network and more than one type of hardware. And it's not owned in any part by the government.
2. America invented wireless.
Which means we have a huge legacy netowkr. Although, as stated above, there are multiple networks, so sometimes you either have to upgrade or change, that is changing. New phones in America have SIMs too. Yes, a few years ago, America was behind Europe, but the hodgepodge of 2.5G networks in the USA are much more advanced than European "GSM." And America will be 3G while you all are still in the 2G dark ages (But with the most fashionably stylish phones, I'm sure.) Most people 3 or 4 years ago got an old phone without one for free instead of purchasing a newer phone.
3. You don't have to pay for local phone service
Okay, CPP is cool, but you pay by the minute (and through the nose) for *real* phone service. While wireless is convenient, it will never be a substitute for a real network.
4. The USA is bigger than all of Europe.
By a whole lot. England is tiny. It would probably all be a local call if it were in the USA. (See the advantages of this in 3.) France has a different prefix than England. And you'll probably flip when you hear this, Belgium has a different prefix than the Netherlands. Now that's a waste.
Yes, however the people who call you on your cell phone pay REDICULOUSLY high charges to call you!!!!!!!!! I have friends in Australia and Switerzerland, and when I call them my per minute cost from the U.S. goes from .05/minute to about .50/minute. That is nuts, I MUCH prefer this system in the U.S. especially since our long distance is so cheap nowadays.
Verisign operates a one-stop service for number portability. It's straightforward - they control the number database. You don't get a choice of registrars.
One less-known feature of this approach is that it's used for wiretapping. By messing with the routing database, calls are routed to wiretapping access points before going to their ultimate destination. Verisign offers wiretapping services to law enforcement and various other "authorities" as a commercial service, under the name NetDiscovery(tm). Coming soon: Verisign wiretapping for voice over IP!
PacBell became cingular and I do believe they still have SIM cards in their wireless phones. Just like with T-mobile you can open your phone, take out the card and pop it into another compatible phone and all your settings will transfer. The difference between hear and europe is that all the companies use slightly incompatible phones.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
What is called "GSM" in the USA is alot different (and alot more advanced) than the European GSM standard.
You have a drawer full of them? (all of which, I assume, you're not using)
Why don't you donate them? Many types of charities take cell phones as donations, as well as your local police department, who usually allocates them to battered women shelters (to give them an "anonymous" phone to keep in touch with/a way to call for help, etc.). Neither my wife nor I have any of our old cellphones.
If the act of giving isn't enough for you, remember you can always deduct the donation from your taxes...
If you're going to count enemy soldiers and civilians killed in a declared war, then I'm afraid that Bush is not "the greatest mass murderer in American history." That would probably end up being Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who you may recall from a little bust-up called World War II. A Democrat, Mr. Roosevelt also initiated and presided over the "New Deal," a set of avowedly socialist government programs designed to ameliorate the ills experienced by the common working man during the Depression.
This is the same shit I had to listen to about Viet Nam, too. What a stupid meme.
You're so right. I wish I had such a commanding control of sarcasm. Maybe if I wasn't such a disemboweled chickenshit eunuch I could get a brain, grow up and create a Slashdot login so I could post stuff that makes me sound clever (by repeating disingenuous lies) instead of meaning what I say, anonymously.
-Aaron Evans, ahde@kfalls.net
What I would like to see are shorter contract terms. WHY should I be locked into a 1 or 2 year contract with an early termination fee?
It cost hundreds of dollars for a cell phone company to add a new customer. That includes advertising and the free cell phone you got with that contract. You don't seriously think AT&T Wireless just absorbs the cost of that $200 cell phone, do you?
Of course, if you don't want to sign a 1-2 year contract, you don't have to. You'll just have to buy your own phone.
Thanks for numbering, it makes replying easier:
1: That's what this ruling is about. We'd have this feature long ago if the providers hadn't fought it so much (this regulation has been on the table for nearly 10 years)
2: Not true. Many phones here are GSM, in fact there are three major GSM providers here (AT&T, Cingular, and T-Mobile). Some phones are SIM locked, but you can usually harass customer support into unlocking your phone. The big reason that nobody cares over here is that most providers will give you a free phone with GPRS (or equivelent), a color screen, and all the newest goodies (camera, etc) if you sign up for a year. The Nokia 3650 is free here when you sign up for a year, I understand that it is $200-$300 elsewhere.
3: The cellular infastructure in the US was built 5+ years before it existed elsewhere. It was decided (at the time) that cellphones would get normal numbers (remember, landlines are ubiquidous in the US and there was no available number block for cellphones). If it looks like a regular number, it should be billed like a regular number and any excess charges should be paid by the cellphone user. Thus, recepient pays was the only logical choice. On the flipside, calling a cellphone in the US costs no more than calling a landline (local = free, long distance = a few cents a minute).
By the way, there *are* CPP providers and plans in the US. Nextel sells such a plan, as do some other providers. One day every plan may have CPP, just as roaming and long distance charges have disappeared from plans.
4: Numbers are geographically fixed, but you don't have to change when you move. Most companies are happy to give you a non-local number.
Cellular technology isn't playing catch-up in the US. We have GPRS and MMS and all of the features you have in Europe. SMS works fine, even between providers. My GSM phone works on nearly every GSM network in the country, and I never pay extra wherever I go in this country of 300 million. I get unlimited GPRS data (not billed by thr kilobyte), unlimited night/weekend minutes, unlimited SMS, unlimited calling to and from phones on the same provider, no long distance anywhere in the country, and 200 minutes anytime else. I pay $40 per month, and I think I get what I pay for.
Believe it or not, the US has more GSM towers deployed than Western Europe, and more CDMA towers than any other country. We also have more diversity than you might believe. One company offers a plan that only works in your home area (usually your city and suburbs, you can pay a buck or two to get your whole state) but gives you unlimited anytime minutes for $32 a month. AT&T has a plan that gives you unlimited anytime, anywhere minutes for $80 a month. Some providers have unlimited SMS or unlimited data. Some have unlimited off-peak minutes. Some have CPP. Some have unlimited minutes to others on the same network. Some have shared minute plans.
So, it's hard to sum up the US wireless market. GSM is the standard, but so is CDMA. CPP exists, but not always.
So, in conclusion, the US wireless market is different from anywhere else. Perhaps it is because of the prevelence of landlines, which are affordable and unlimited. Perhaps it is cultural. Perhaps it has to do wit the fact that we had cellphones 5 years before everyone else.
So we have to put up with some annoying things. But we also get some nice perks.
The US wireless market has been playing catch-up for seven years. Today, they have caught up. 8 years ago, there was no digital cellular service in the US. Now, GSM and CDMA are the standards. SMS is the sandard. And MMS and GPRS and 3G data services are the standards. The GSM providers are uniting against the CDMA providers. And with free phones and number portability, I wouldn't be surprised if CPP becomes the standard. Or if unlimited anytime minutes become the standard. Capitalism works best when there is fierce competition. That's why AMD and Intel produce faster CPUs for lower prices every year.
You're so right. I wish I had such a commanding control of sarcasm. Maybe if I wasn't such a disemboweled chickenshit eunuch I could get a brain, grow up and create a Slashdot login so I could post stuff that makes me sound clever (by repeating disingenuous lies) instead of meaning what I say, anonymously.
-Aaron Evans, ahde@kfalls.net
And which "disingenuous lies" would that be?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
You left out one thing: lock-in contracts.
In Canada, when "digital" PCS phones first started to compete with "analog" cellular phones, the big selling point was "no service contract". It was strictly month-to-month, and you could leave any time you wanted. I haven't lived in Canada for a few years now, but I imagine it hasn't changed.
-- Will quantum computers run imaginary-time operating systems?
The first minute has always been free for me (Sprint).
"But the move may not be at all bad for Verizon, according to industry analysts. While the company has spent $50 million to prepare its system for portability, it may wind up gaining more customers than it loses, said Blake Bath, a wireless industry analyst with Lehman Brothers. " Did anyone not read the article where it states that VZW is already compatible with the requirement. I am in the indusrty and as far as I know, they are the only ones!
What's bad is even though Cingular may be fighting this, about 6 months ago they made the company I work for change all of its cellphone numbers from numbers that any of our offices could call with out dialing long distance to a single block of local numbers with the excuse that they were complying with the new number portability requirement set forward by the FCC.
What prevents this is that the customer, when hearing about said fee, will say:
"No thanks, I'll go across the street to your competitor who doesn't charge any fees for moving my number."
No, the standard is teh same, the frequencies they run on are different. US GSM runs on 1900, rest of the worl runs on 800/1800 (or was it 900/1800... I always mix those up).
Any GSM phone that is Tri Mode, or worldphone will work on ANY GSM network anywhere, provided you have a roaming agreement, or a contract with teh cell provider in your area, simply by swapping out the sim card. In GSM phones, the sim card has ALL the information about the phone, the number, etc, in other phones, sim cards are just to store names/address/media, no phone settings.
You will find there are 3 types of GSM phones, single, dual, and tri mode, sing and tri mode will work in the US, single mde will ONLY work in the US, and Tri mode will work everywhere.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
GoNumber.net/Personal
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
of a recent incident e.g. perhaps some soldier raped someone (like caused all the hassle in Okinawa a few years back).
Are you sure? Check your billing statement. It's not something I added on. It's just always been the case with Sprint.
Mmmm.. Donuts
You can go ahead and do that in NA as well, if you'd like. The problem is people want cheap cheap phones so carriers subsidize the cost to get the contract, then they program the phone so it can't activate on any other carrier. If you want to pay full retail price for the phone, you can go right ahead and activate it wherever you please.
Also keep in mind that in NA you can get GSM+GPRS service from T-Mobile, Cingular, or AT&T if you don't like [C|T]MA phones/carriers. Granted, it's not Orange or Vodaphone but it's better than nothing. EDGE and UMTS are also making baby steps into the market.
4. I can use my phone in virtually every country in Europe. If dozens (maybe 100+) of European providers can come up with a system that works from one end of the continent to another, why can't a handful of US providers do the same?
Because we have freaking theme parks that are bigger than entire countries over there. I heard Warren Buffet's back yard is at least the size of Switzerland. It takes just a few more towers to make this whole thing work over here.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Please get it straight. They dont even have the same moneypools.
Verizon Wireless is Majority owned by Vodaphone Airtouch and GTE and Bell Alantic Wireless.
Note mobile phone coverage doesn't cover 100% of the area but does cover 97-98% of the population.
Can't believe the US has limited minutes on air so the receiver is in effect partly paying for the calls, what's with that? In Australia the caller pays for the call there is no charge to be on-air.
Cheeers
VikingBrad
I just moved back to the US after living in Europe for 2 years. The pay in advance system there is so much easier. You go to the store, pick a rate plan that you like. (The rate plan is listed on the back of the phone box, as well as the phone number.) You pay for the phone and you are done. They usually come with a $25 credit, when that runs out, you get a text message telling you when your credit gets below $5, you go to the ATM, put in your bank card, type in your phone number and select how much money you want to put on your phone. I was paying approximately .07 a minute to call the US. And local calls were like .03 cents a minute. Text messaging just works and so does voice mail, you don't have to pay extra for all that stuff. The only time you have to do anything special is to get roaming turned on for outside of the country, but even that only required a a billing address. And the coverage was a lot better too.
I didn't realize how much better it was until I came back and had to get a new cell phone.
my completely unbiased (yeah, right) opinion tells me it will work to our advantage by driving more customers to us
I just cancelled my Cingular service after about three years. Why? Because I walked into their store hoping to upgrade my phone so it would work in Europe.
First: $350 for the most basic triband phone. Cingular hasn't lost the sale yet - I really need service overseas, and I'm prepared to fork over some coin for it.
Second: You must sign a NEW 2-year contract to get that super deal. Let me repeat: A NEW FRIGGIN 24-MONTH contract for an EXISTING customer hoping to upgrade his service!!! I could understand if the phone were subsidized by the monthly rate, but clearly at $350 it is not.
Third: No trade-in value on the existing phone.
Fourth: Can't even use it as a second phone on the same account!!! Bastards.
Fifth: Must supply my motherf@#$%! social security number (AKA bank PIN code) on the application.
On top of all that, the salesman was a complete dick and kept insisting that I would rather have the goofy phone that played video games and had a digital camera attachment. Christ, I just want to make PHONE CALLS!!!
So when I got home, I cancelled my service altogether - I'll rent a phone at the airport instead. Cingular may not be the worst cell provider, but they still fscking suck.
But now, I (maybe) see what they've been doing.
Does that sound about right?
are you off your meds again? :)
2. You're missing my point. Any provider can pick the protocol that they think can provides the best service. You can use a different company's protocol, or you can have a phone that supports different protocols. It's like saying you have to switch to linux to use SSH, and then back to Windows to use telnet or something.
Area (coverage) has fuck all to do with using a single identifiable code for mobiles.
So if someone calls your cell phone with the NJ-area-code number, from Los Angeles, on a land line...
How is it that they aren't going to be charged long distance again? Yeah...
So you'd rather have the providers double-bill you (you and the calling party) on EVERY single call than hang up on a few telemarketers?
Well, isn't that interesting!
Now, I'm no fan of telemarketers, but I think I'd rather sign up on some "do not call list" as they have now-a-days than pay for DOUBLE use on every single call!
they don't get charged because it is a local number everywhere in the US. It seems hard to believe, but I've gotten calls from San Diego that were charged as local calls for the person calling me.
Of course, there are some drags to the system, like, for example, college phone networks don't recognize it as a local number and force my friends to either use a phone card or their cell phones to call me. Other than that it just works.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
Correct.
I should have specifically stated cdmaOne and CDMA2000 in Verizon's case.
UMTS would up standardizing on CDMA for its modulation scheme, but the people involved are incompetents regarding CDMA implementation. UMTS is having all of the problems that the CDMA experts solved years ago.
And the EU government DID mandate use of GSM. They also mandated the use of UMTS and the requirement to upgrade to it. i.e. "Buy these ridiculously priced spectrum licenses or else."
Whereas in the only recent case the FCC has mandated a change to a new technology (moving TV from NTSC analog to ATSC digital), the FCC essentially gave broadcasters who already had an analog license an additional channel for free to make upgrading easier. i.e. "You need to move to this new technology. We'll give you the spectrum you need to do so, but you'll have to eventually give up the old spectrum"
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Well then you are the Choda... It was really wiped I Swear!!!!
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Pacific Bell Cellular, now known as Cingular, does indeed use SIM cards in their phones. Around here (San Francisco Bay Area), they apparently have CDMA, TDMA, and GSM networks. Most people I know who use Cingular have GSM phones with SIM cards.
While you can't switch providers (you need a new SIM card), switching phones is a snap. Just swap the SIM cards and you're done. Supposedly this is how the new prepaid works as well (you'll be able to buy "charged" SIM cards off the shelf and swap them into your phone).
It does seem hard to believe...
I'm surprised I've never heard of this, as you'd think that a LOT of people would be interested in "being a local call" from anywhere in the nation. That would practically eliminate 1-800 numbers, wouldn't it?
Oh, my friend, how it's changed. All digital providers have contracts now -- except in certain markets of Fido -- and in some cases, thinking here of SaskTel and Telus, they have 3-year contracts.
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have