Well... pending on how one wishes to view the situation it could also be described as a "sit in" a-la what the hippies did years ago. Civil disobedience as such. Yes, I know it is not the same thing, but it is not that different.
That being said *IF* the DDoS is coming from compromised machines without there owners permission that is criminal but if it is otherwise (read: users permission coordinated demonstration) then calling it criminal seems a bit harsh. Digital Civil Disobedience seems more accurate.
no one's going to bother using their DNS servers that take 5x as long to resolve addresses.
Huh?! 5x as long to resolve? I have actually had an increase in speed after switching. Also I have switched a few people from Verizon's SOHO DNS servers to OpenNIC and had a small improvment in speed and a large increase in reliability (not because OpenNIC is anything special but that verizon is that bad.) try them again and use the closest tier3 to you. I have not seen this problem before... I'll look into it though.
ICANN is a pain in da butt, and from what I recall is becoming more so with the outing of the "netizen representatives". *sigh* These tie wearing techno-nitwits are going to screw the system up good. ICANN, UN, whatever. If it is not built and run by geeks (read: technologically proficient) I have little faith that anything good will come of it, which brings me to the point.
OpenNIC is a geek run DNS system. Just change your DNS servers to point at theirs and go, or if you are a little more gung ho get your ISP to run a tier3 DNS server. Will resolve OpenNIC and ICANN domains and is transparent to the end user.
It is also a fully democratic system with the OpenNIC members voting on new domain TLD's and membership is open to all not just MegaCorps. Jump over and take a look, I think their success will be a good thing(tm).
/. has great power, so lets use it. Think of what we can do to web servers and apply that to a call center. Lets get their attention where they will notice... in the pocketbook. Pick up the phone and tell them what you think think at 1 (888) BAD-BEAT thats 1 (888) 223-2328.
If you're forced to install this crap, break it, make sure it doesn't work. That's how we got rid of Exchange and had free software come into our company with just over 4500 people
You just became my personal hero of the day.
I kneel humbly before you
Umm... care to tell us why moving to Linux has *anything* to do with science and R&D?
OK I'll take a stab at this. I am thinking that the parent poster was refering to the not-reinventing-the-wheel aspect of OSS. A big DoE job requires some serious brain cells to write code for a physcis project or one helluva cluster or whatever and if it is done in OSS there is a good chance that code can be reused in other projects/areas/who knows.
*OR*
It can be contracted to a private company only to re relicensed for big $$$ to those projects that can afford it. The more people that get their hands on the code gets the more applications it will find that may not have been intended or even thought of. Example... the Beowulf clustering software writen by NASA (I think) and where it has gone and what it has done and who it has helped that would not have happened if they simply bought big iron from whoever.
[offtopic]
Did anyone else notice we just slashdotted a DoE machine... Me thinks we just irritated someone
[/offtopic]
I will never buy another Symantec product again, if this is true. I don't care whether you are pro-gun or anti-gun, this is wrong.
Well one could take it a step further, if one were so inclined. A retaliatory strike. One could deprive they of some of there rights, and more likely to get noticed, profits. Grab some of there stuff and burn a CD-R spindle worth of copies and sprinkle them around town, or up 'em on your favortie P2P.
Yes I know 2 wrongs don't make it right, but goddamn it I am PISSED and it would make it even. If we take this and don't push the button (economicly speaking) then they will continue to do what they are doing, putting a little pressure on they is the only way to get em to listen. A boycott is a good first step.
[tinfoil_hat_time]
Thinking about it there are so few people out there that would take part it would probibly do little. The powers that be know this, take a look at madison ave. and all the money and time and eggheads that have gone into the science of advertising and marketing. Applied psychlogy. Think that the layout of supermarkets and minimarts is by chance? Or that staple items like milk, eggs, bread are in the back of the store while items like candy, batteries, magazines are near checkout? This Symantec thing is another fine example of this only with a different target. They are not trying to get the population to buy something, they are trying something far more seroius. They are trying to change social norms. Try watching the U.S. (other contries may be different YMMV) and then read up indetail about the story. Pick a good polotical hot button story like the Iraq thing. Then take a look at the came story on Aljazzera news. You should get a spread of spin. The Symantec bit is just one more attempt to spin the populations social norms and should be stopped. By not standing up and taking a stand and saying "NO" you are saying yes.
And what praytell are you going to record it with? There isn't alot of consumer grade equipment out there that can record that... especially the uncompressed DVI stream.
Try this.
The more bullshit that they throw at the set top boxes and DTV sets and what not, the more pressure there will be for people like us to develop an alternative. They can't beat us at the game we (geeks) created, though they will try. That and if I am not too far off base the cost of one of these HDTV sets is probably roughly the same as a PC buff enough to run this software and a big screen for the output.
[rant]
If they are so damn paranoid about me making copies of there oh-so-important TV shows then they can keep their radiation off my lawn. [/rant]
Well with BOINC you can do both! BOINC can split projects. Run several at the same time.
Run SETI to get it all installed on those home boxes and then run folding or similar to get real work done.
BOINC is not a Distributed Computing Program. It is a architcture for running DC apps. Good crypto will be used to ensure that a system (server) gets clean data and clients only run apps from that server. You the user will select what DC project you will run on BOINC.
Really all boinc does is help reduce development time for DC projects by establishing a common framework to work within. Someone could run a "Build a better Smallpox program" to build a super Bucket-O-Death (tm) and advertise it a traveling salesman NP hard app to help the girlscouts sell cookies more efficently. There are no safegaurds (AFAIK) on that type of No-NO use.
Is mankind ready for this type of supercomputer (UltraComputer? Hypercomputer?) Seti@Home already blows away all other supercomputers on the planet (I think by at least 1 order of magnitude or so I was told), now with all these different DC projects runnning under the same framework things should get interesting.
Perhaps the IETF will formalise a protocol for DC and take the next step toward a global grid processing system. Think Jabber protocol turned RFC proposal/standards track.
Do you know why? United Devices filed a law suit over some bullshit IP non-sense. BOINC did not have the $ to fight so they had to give in. One of the stipulations was that it could not be used for commercial purposes for the next 18 months. I tried to find the page on BOINC's web site that had the lawsuit info but can't. Rest assured that they will make it OpenSource (OSI approved) as soon as possible.
It's a conspiracy! The Iluminati and the Free Masons in conjunction with the Mann(r) everywhere quietly slipped that on in on all of us. It is to identify what countriess are in the program and which are not.
It is symbolsim for half of what you think is yours is ours. In the US you can think of it this way... Currency was backed for gold or silver, and it said that this note can be redeemed for 1 dollar in gold. Then quietly one day... gone. backed by nothing but blind faith.
The price of freedom is eternal vigalance. Keep an eye on government for they are keeping an eye on you
I hope you have enjoyed this episode of Tinfoil Hat Time. With me, Lord Prox, your humble host.
Your idea of running fake open proxies for spammers to discover and 'abuse' is not new. There is already software for this purpose. Search for 'proxy honeypot' or 'proxypot' in Google.
Thanks for the suggestion... downloaded a SMTP honeypot i'll see how well it works. However most of the proxy/honeypots were aimed at servers not for "grandma's DSL Wintel box". Simple and stupid for the end user. Think distributed computing seti@home meets anti-spam. No single site (monkeys.com) to take down. It would not stop spam but it could make there lives that much more difficult by removing one tool in their toolbox. And costing them time/money/product in the process. My SMTP logs show that I get plenty of relay attempts in a day so using other peoples servers is still a widely used tactic. I think this would be a good response.
Professional spammers have gone beyond open relays to planting trojans on cracked Win boxes. Rather than rely on a Russian roulette approach of finding an open relay, they just hack a Win box on broadband and they have their own server that they control.
Hmmm... I have to say I partially disagree. My server logs show 3 - 10 attempts per day to use it as a relay. I ran an open relay one to see how long it would take and how much spam would be sent. fast and a lot were the answers. I'll bet I could black hole 100K slices O spam a week...
I had an idea not too long ago...
What if you write a little app that looks like a SMTP daemon and would accept incomming mail just like a open relay but simply route it to a bit bucket.
1. spammers look for open relay
2. find one of these
3. send the spam
4. spam never gets to target
5. you are a hero for a day
If this gets implemented in a wide scale it would make life harder for spammers. Much better than simply blocking spam, they will just look for another open relay, this would trick 'em and that batch of spam never reaches target...
After a while I am sure they will get wise and find a way to sniff these fake open relays/black holes so it might be clever to make it reconfigurable (emulating the next version of popular SMTP daemons or changing its "look" every week) or allowing say 1 email to go through so if they email themselves it will look valid and then send another 5k only to be black holed.
Any thoughts... anyone with the coding skills want to write a demonstrator app for win32 (yeah I know but think of all those xDSL and cable modem boxes out there that this could sit on) I'll pay a little something for it...
Something I would like to point out in this thread is the "office humor quotient". I have worked in a number of places and found that some places are very joke friendly and others are not. What would go over with great laughter in one place would go over like a pink slip in another.
ummm. Still not getting it. Why should it increase its angular velocity. At lower orbits (ie shuttle) you have to have higher angular velocity to maintain orbit. We don't want the end of this rope to maintain orbit, we want it to lower down. the angular velocity would remain the same 360deg/day.
have any thoughts on the ionisphere issue? I'll think some more on your experment. I am thinking that it is not quite the same. It would be more like lowering a rope from the top of a tall building. A really tall building. The top of the building has a slightly faster linear velocity than the base relative the the gravity well but the same angular velocity. The rope dosen't care, it just wants to get to the bottom of the gravity well. Your ball being dropped is not being influenced by anything during transit from top to bottom (except grav) but the rope is. Hmmmm. I'm not getting this.
Ya know, thinking about this I don't think that in the event of some kind of failure we are going to have any kind of "re-entry burn up". IANAOrbital Mechanics Engineer but re-entry burn up is caused by something entering the atmosphere traveling in a lateral motion reletive to earth surface. This thing is in GeoSynch orbit. It has 0 lateral motion relative to surface and hence 0 motion relative to air that causes friction) it would not burn-up, Right?
What did come to mind is this thing IS going to be crossing the ionispere. With all those charged particals running around up there aren't they going to see this thing as the mother of all grounding/lightning rods?
[humor]We could ground out the entire natural earth electrical system. CHAOS! PANIC! No more schumann resonance! We will all go insane![/humor]
Seriously, what are the considerations for this? Anyone? Anyone? Class. Anyone?
Slashdot Mirror
Well... pending on how one wishes to view the situation it could also be described as a "sit in" a-la what the hippies did years ago. Civil disobedience as such. Yes, I know it is not the same thing, but it is not that different.
That being said *IF* the DDoS is coming from compromised machines without there owners permission that is criminal but if it is otherwise (read: users permission coordinated demonstration) then calling it criminal seems a bit harsh. Digital Civil Disobedience seems more accurate.
no one's going to bother using their DNS servers that take 5x as long to resolve addresses.
Huh?! 5x as long to resolve? I have actually had an increase in speed after switching. Also I have switched a few people from Verizon's SOHO DNS servers to OpenNIC and had a small improvment in speed and a large increase in reliability (not because OpenNIC is anything special but that verizon is that bad.) try them again and use the closest tier3 to you. I have not seen this problem before... I'll look into it though.
Thanks for the heads up
ICANN is a pain in da butt, and from what I recall is becoming more so with the outing of the "netizen representatives". *sigh* These tie wearing techno-nitwits are going to screw the system up good. ICANN, UN, whatever. If it is not built and run by geeks (read: technologically proficient) I have little faith that anything good will come of it, which brings me to the point.
OpenNIC is a geek run DNS system. Just change your DNS servers to point at theirs and go, or if you are a little more gung ho get your ISP to run a tier3 DNS server. Will resolve OpenNIC and ICANN domains and is transparent to the end user.
It is also a fully democratic system with the OpenNIC members voting on new domain TLD's and membership is open to all not just MegaCorps. Jump over and take a look, I think their success will be a good thing(tm).
/. has great power, so lets use it. Think of what we can do to web servers and apply that to a call center. Lets get their attention where they will notice... in the pocketbook. Pick up the phone and tell them what you think think at 1 (888) BAD-BEAT thats 1 (888) 223-2328.
Figure 1.00 buck per minuite and do the math
Operators are standing by... call now!
If you're forced to install this crap, break it, make sure it doesn't work. That's how we got rid of Exchange and had free software come into our company with just over 4500 people
You just became my personal hero of the day.
I kneel humbly before you
DOH! Damn trolls.
I can't believe I fell for that one. Mod me down for feeding a troll.
Umm... care to tell us why moving to Linux has *anything* to do with science and R&D?
OK I'll take a stab at this. I am thinking that the parent poster was refering to the not-reinventing-the-wheel aspect of OSS. A big DoE job requires some serious brain cells to write code for a physcis project or one helluva cluster or whatever and if it is done in OSS there is a good chance that code can be reused in other projects/areas/who knows.
*OR*
It can be contracted to a private company only to re relicensed for big $$$ to those projects that can afford it. The more people that get their hands on the code gets the more applications it will find that may not have been intended or even thought of. Example... the Beowulf clustering software writen by NASA (I think) and where it has gone and what it has done and who it has helped that would not have happened if they simply bought big iron from whoever.
[offtopic]
Did anyone else notice we just slashdotted a DoE machine... Me thinks we just irritated someone
[/offtopic]
I wish I had a robotic woman to blow my horn. I guess I couldn't take her into the shower though :-(
Your wish has come true
USB.
Sensor enabled.
Motorized and articulated.
Disturbing.
Isn't it.
I will never buy another Symantec product again, if this is true. I don't care whether you are pro-gun or anti-gun, this is wrong.
Well one could take it a step further, if one were so inclined. A retaliatory strike. One could deprive they of some of there rights, and more likely to get noticed, profits. Grab some of there stuff and burn a CD-R spindle worth of copies and sprinkle them around town, or up 'em on your favortie P2P.
Yes I know 2 wrongs don't make it right, but goddamn it I am PISSED and it would make it even. If we take this and don't push the button (economicly speaking) then they will continue to do what they are doing, putting a little pressure on they is the only way to get em to listen. A boycott is a good first step.
[tinfoil_hat_time]
Thinking about it there are so few people out there that would take part it would probibly do little. The powers that be know this, take a look at madison ave. and all the money and time and eggheads that have gone into the science of advertising and marketing. Applied psychlogy. Think that the layout of supermarkets and minimarts is by chance? Or that staple items like milk, eggs, bread are in the back of the store while items like candy, batteries, magazines are near checkout? This Symantec thing is another fine example of this only with a different target. They are not trying to get the population to buy something, they are trying something far more seroius. They are trying to change social norms. Try watching the U.S. (other contries may be different YMMV) and then read up indetail about the story. Pick a good polotical hot button story like the Iraq thing. Then take a look at the came story on Aljazzera news. You should get a spread of spin. The Symantec bit is just one more attempt to spin the populations social norms and should be stopped. By not standing up and taking a stand and saying "NO" you are saying yes.
[/tinfoil_hat_time]
If Speakeasy is not available, talk to linkline
Just thought of something esle...
What do you do if you have personal contact with some unsavory person. Do you see your doctor or your tech to get tested...
I think they should submit this to the IEEE. I propose IEEE 802.666. The Personal Aura Net.
And what praytell are you going to record it with? There isn't alot of consumer grade equipment out there that can record that... especially the uncompressed DVI stream.
Try this.
The more bullshit that they throw at the set top boxes and DTV sets and what not, the more pressure there will be for people like us to develop an alternative. They can't beat us at the game we (geeks) created, though they will try. That and if I am not too far off base the cost of one of these HDTV sets is probably roughly the same as a PC buff enough to run this software and a big screen for the output.
[rant]
If they are so damn paranoid about me making copies of there oh-so-important TV shows then they can keep their radiation off my lawn.
[/rant]
Well with BOINC you can do both! BOINC can split projects. Run several at the same time.
Run SETI to get it all installed on those home boxes and then run folding or similar to get real work done.
BOINC is not a Distributed Computing Program. It is a architcture for running DC apps. Good crypto will be used to ensure that a system (server) gets clean data and clients only run apps from that server. You the user will select what DC project you will run on BOINC.
Really all boinc does is help reduce development time for DC projects by establishing a common framework to work within. Someone could run a "Build a better Smallpox program" to build a super Bucket-O-Death (tm) and advertise it a traveling salesman NP hard app to help the girlscouts sell cookies more efficently. There are no safegaurds (AFAIK) on that type of No-NO use.
Is mankind ready for this type of supercomputer (UltraComputer? Hypercomputer?) Seti@Home already blows away all other supercomputers on the planet (I think by at least 1 order of magnitude or so I was told), now with all these different DC projects runnning under the same framework things should get interesting.
Perhaps the IETF will formalise a protocol for DC and take the next step toward a global grid processing system. Think Jabber protocol turned RFC proposal/standards track.
Do you know why? United Devices filed a law suit over some bullshit IP non-sense. BOINC did not have the $ to fight so they had to give in. One of the stipulations was that it could not be used for commercial purposes for the next 18 months. I tried to find the page on BOINC's web site that had the lawsuit info but can't. Rest assured that they will make it OpenSource (OSI approved) as soon as possible.
It's a conspiracy! The Iluminati and the Free Masons in conjunction with the Mann(r) everywhere quietly slipped that on in on all of us. It is to identify what countriess are in the program and which are not.
It is symbolsim for half of what you think is yours is ours. In the US you can think of it this way... Currency was backed for gold or silver, and it said that this note can be redeemed for 1 dollar in gold. Then quietly one day... gone. backed by nothing but blind faith.
The price of freedom is eternal vigalance. Keep an eye on government for they are keeping an eye on you
I hope you have enjoyed this episode of Tinfoil Hat Time. With me, Lord Prox, your humble host.
Your idea of running fake open proxies for spammers to discover and 'abuse' is not new. There is already software for this purpose. Search for 'proxy honeypot' or 'proxypot' in Google.
Thanks for the suggestion... downloaded a SMTP honeypot i'll see how well it works. However most of the proxy/honeypots were aimed at servers not for "grandma's DSL Wintel box". Simple and stupid for the end user. Think distributed computing seti@home meets anti-spam. No single site (monkeys.com) to take down. It would not stop spam but it could make there lives that much more difficult by removing one tool in their toolbox. And costing them time/money/product in the process. My SMTP logs show that I get plenty of relay attempts in a day so using other peoples servers is still a widely used tactic. I think this would be a good response.
Professional spammers have gone beyond open relays to planting trojans on cracked Win boxes. Rather than rely on a Russian roulette approach of finding an open relay, they just hack a Win box on broadband and they have their own server that they control.
Hmmm... I have to say I partially disagree. My server logs show 3 - 10 attempts per day to use it as a relay. I ran an open relay one to see how long it would take and how much spam would be sent. fast and a lot were the answers. I'll bet I could black hole 100K slices O spam a week...
I had an idea not too long ago...
What if you write a little app that looks like a SMTP daemon and would accept incomming mail just like a open relay but simply route it to a bit bucket.
1. spammers look for open relay
2. find one of these
3. send the spam
4. spam never gets to target
5. you are a hero for a day
If this gets implemented in a wide scale it would make life harder for spammers. Much better than simply blocking spam, they will just look for another open relay, this would trick 'em and that batch of spam never reaches target...
After a while I am sure they will get wise and find a way to sniff these fake open relays/black holes so it might be clever to make it reconfigurable (emulating the next version of popular SMTP daemons or changing its "look" every week) or allowing say 1 email to go through so if they email themselves it will look valid and then send another 5k only to be black holed.
Any thoughts... anyone with the coding skills want to write a demonstrator app for win32 (yeah I know but think of all those xDSL and cable modem boxes out there that this could sit on) I'll pay a little something for it...
Me thinks it was no coincidince...
Right, wrong, irrelevent. What is, is.
Lord Prox
Something I would like to point out in this thread is the "office humor quotient". I have worked in a number of places and found that some places are very joke friendly and others are not. What would go over with great laughter in one place would go over like a pink slip in another.
Hi Yo mirror, away! rev_theatre_0x3839_640_dl.mov
ummm. Still not getting it. Why should it increase its angular velocity. At lower orbits (ie shuttle) you have to have higher angular velocity to maintain orbit. We don't want the end of this rope to maintain orbit, we want it to lower down. the angular velocity would remain the same 360deg/day.
have any thoughts on the ionisphere issue? I'll think some more on your experment. I am thinking that it is not quite the same. It would be more like lowering a rope from the top of a tall building. A really tall building. The top of the building has a slightly faster linear velocity than the base relative the the gravity well but the same angular velocity. The rope dosen't care, it just wants to get to the bottom of the gravity well. Your ball being dropped is not being influenced by anything during transit from top to bottom (except grav) but the rope is. Hmmmm. I'm not getting this.
Ya know, thinking about this I don't think that in the event of some kind of failure we are going to have any kind of "re-entry burn up". IANAOrbital Mechanics Engineer but re-entry burn up is caused by something entering the atmosphere traveling in a lateral motion reletive to earth surface. This thing is in GeoSynch orbit. It has 0 lateral motion relative to surface and hence 0 motion relative to air that causes friction) it would not burn-up, Right?
What did come to mind is this thing IS going to be crossing the ionispere. With all those charged particals running around up there aren't they going to see this thing as the mother of all grounding/lightning rods?
[humor]We could ground out the entire natural earth electrical system. CHAOS! PANIC! No more schumann resonance! We will all go insane![/humor]
Seriously, what are the considerations for this? Anyone? Anyone? Class. Anyone?