Well I hope you can understand that many times in the past I have given links. Here is what I think - with a cursory search of google you can find a whole range of resources. I neglect to mention links because I don't want to be forced into defending them - it is a waste of time and results in going around in circles.
If you are desparate for my to link to something, then I can link you to a book I have heard is good but have not personally read. Here it is if you like. I just don't really see the need to post links. There are people out there who have dedicated their careers to this. Their resources are readily available with google. Why do you need me? I'll happily direct anyone to resources in person, but on slashdot a person has to convince me they are genuinely interested - since every time previously I have ended up in circles. As I said I don't want to end up defending arguments on those websites or books. I'll leave that up to the people who have dedicated their careers to it.
Just as a note, I avoid that hyperspace button except in cases where it is rational to assume. Eg, such as saying the floodwaters came up miraculously because that's what the Bible describes and that's where the Creationist model comes from.
Anyway, it's no different from the "We're talking about millions of years" portal. As Fry said (Futurama), "Time makes fools of us all."
I've already stated my purpose. The moment I post a link or an evidence, I will enter into a circle again.
Besides, I've argued with you before, I still remember you. I remember being very frustrated at you failing to listen to what I was saying. No way I want to do that again.
I have tried pointing out many times that this is equally true of evolution. Science deals with things we can test. Origins fall outside that realm.
What we can test is the assumptions, the things we would expect to see given a certain explanation of the origins. And this is where science comes into play - both for creationism and evolution.
To explain...creationism describes the earth as being around 6000 years old now. The way to disprove this is clear then - demonstrate that the earth is older than 6000 years old. We are all familiar with the common methods to do this - radiocarbon dating, etc. These are all scientific methods being used to verify or disprove a philosophical/religious position.
Evolution is the same. Evolution says that the Cambrian age predates the Jurassic age. The way to disprove this is then to show a case where the Jurassic age predates the Cambrian age.
These are basic examples, but they suffice to show why science is employed by two opposing philosophical/religious positions. Science provides the evidence, and philosophy/religion ties it together and discusses how the pieces fit together.
I would suggest then that you have encountered only christians who have taken a cursory glance at the issue. I personally have seen a great deal of positive evidence supporting creationism, and not just arguments refuting evolution.
If you are curious there are plenty of resources available, but I'm not interested in walking in circles again.
Simple answer. For every time I have done that previously has ensued days or months long conversations that go in circles. Mostly, I think, because the person I am talking with does not understand the creationist position. However, I am unwilling to place the brunt of the blame on them. Needless to say, I don't like the wasted time. I'm going to save my discussion of this issue for in person where I can get to the heart of the matter quickly, and eliminate misunderstandings.
My goal here was not to pursuade anyone of my position, but instead ask them to think that the people they talk to about this issue are real people that can think, and are a part of the slashdot community - not some outsider.
I feel compelled to reply to this troll. Why do you have to make comments like this? There are many slashdotters who believe this and can argue quite coherently against evolutionists. I personally have not yet met a single evolutionist who _understands_ the creationist position. Especially on slashdot.
Perhaps by pointing out the obvious cycle I can avoid it (or perhaps because I mention it someone will reply saying it to get modded +3 funny). But every time a creationist posts their arguments some ignorant person replies by saying "you believe a fairy tale" or "if you like to believe myths that's your choice". Grow up. Of all places the slashdot community should try to be aware of these comments. Use logic, reason, arguments. Despite what you might think, the truth _is_ important to me, and I'm sure if I could meet you in person I would be able to impart that feeling to you - that I have thought about what I believe. That I have followed rational steps that lead to this conclusion.
Just to dispel a few myths. Any evolutionist who reads this and wants to quote his favorite "15 refutations of creationist arguments" I've already seen that website. It's simply arguing against positions only held by christians who also don't understand creationism or evolution. Creationists understand and agree with natural selection. If you don't understand how we can believe that and still believe creationism/not believe evolution, then you don't understand creationist arguments!
I do not think this attitude of "evolution is right" should be encouraged on slashdot. Lets acknowledge that just like there are some who vouch for vi and others who swear by emacs, there are some who think evolution is rational and some who think creationism is a better position. Lets deal with facts. All of us (well almost all) would agree that scientology is a deceitful institute that should be dispelled. Yet when you talk about creation vs evolution you are talking about something that many slashdotters are themselves split on. This only hurts the community as far as I can see.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue my position. I've done that many times, and invariably the above happens. All I'm asking is that we change this culture and start to respect opinions of each other. It is certainly true that no-one's opinion will be changed or opened unless there is respect for each other - and comments like this one eliminate all respect that a creationist might have for an evolutionist slashdotter. Please stop.
Why are there so many people complaining about "what's the point of SVG" or "what a waste of time" kind of arguments. What's the issue here?
I can't believe people here have so little imagination. It's almost like they are posting just to get modded up for having a 'radical' opinion. I mean, come on, what's the problem with SVG? It's not like the time spent coding on it is going to mean KDE3.2 will be delayed a month, or that Gnome will have more bugs. This is just one of the many enhancements that make Linux, and software in general, nicer. We should be talking about the fun things we can do with SVG, or the improvements that could be made, or any encouraging notes on it. Not about whether it has a point at all.
Let me illustrate some points for the creatively challenged:
Prettyness - this is the most obvious. Most people like something that looks good! Sure, it may not have an obvious practical advantage, but humans are naturally attracted to things that look good, as opposed to a website with black background, red/yellow flashing text with images with white backgrounds. There may be something deeper to this - when something looks professional/pretty, it feels easier to understand. The less attractive it is, the more complex it feels. Quite simply, the more something feels like sphagetti the less our mind will be able to comprehend it and move on to newer things. The neater something is and the more we comprehend it, the easier we will find to move on to something new.
Resolution - been mentioned earlier. Different resolutions require different font sizes. This means that the artist can make an icon that will be useful from now until the time computers go primarily 3d. They don't need to anticipate resolutions of the future, their work will scale seamlessly.
Speed - this is a speed improvement. The more our code is improved and sped up, the more integrated it can be. This is just one of many enhancements to Linux that make community software that bit better.
So, onto something more positive: what's the state of SVG in KDE? I really enjoyed it in Gnome 2 for the time I used it, but it was a bit slower when they got large. These speed improvements are certainly good news.
"Therefore a wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him."
From the hacker's portrait,
"Many (perhaps even most) hackers don't follow or do sports at all and are determinedly anti-physical. Among those who do, interest in spectator sports is low to non-existent; sports are something one does, not something one watches on TV."
This is exactly what I used to say. Sports is something you do, not something you watch.
So while you "hackers" watch the super bowl I'll be surfing!
Followup after some musing: If I had money I'd create some robots or machines that could bend the crops for me. I'd have a computer program to design the circles and the patterns for it. Then, I'd place a device in the center of the pattern which acts as a server for the machines that create the circle. They then follow predescribed paths from the origin point creating the circles quickly and perfectly.
Well, the sites promoting crop circle's as something amazing go to great lengths to demonstrate that these are very abnormal. But seriously, what's their point? They say "This means that each stalk would have to be bent individually to give that effect." So then, each was bent individually? Their point is, I think, that given current human technology the only way to duplicate this effect is to bend each stalk individually.
Here's what I think is likely. There's a group of secret, elite crop circl creators. They started off small and simple, but their techniques have improved tremendously and have extended their efforts across the world. Whatever mundane method it is that they use causes a lot of those wierd things mentioned in the article above. Perhaps they have some fascinating machinery to produce the effect, or some chemicals, or both. I can explain the nausea, etc, easily: people who encounter these things and cannot explain them will be mentally affected. They will feel confused, amazed, scared, whatever. This translates into physical chnages.
Consider also the other wierd magnetic effects, noises, radiation, etc. Whatever method is being used to create the circles leaves this residue - whether it be alien or human technology. Just because the devices used to create the circles is unknown does not mean it must be used by aliens. After all, America and Britain can't even prove for certain that Iraq has WMD. What happened to their amazing technology and uber spies? We need you Mr. Bond.
I consider this the most likely scenario. If aliens, then why do they never visit us? I know that many claim that they do through channeling or mediums, but this is easily dispelled - these methods have been used for the last 4-5000 years for communicating with spirits, the dead (supposedly) and much more. Whatever it is that they communicate with, it is a liar and uses the same method for different deceptions. The answer is not aliens. We are supposed to be amazed by the amazing technology of these supposed aliens, yet they must resort to crop circles? No, I don't think the answer is there.
The answer seems to lie in the fact that the crop circles are changing and evolving. If it were aliens that knew so much, their methods would be rather stagnant if the crop circles are a common method for them to achieve whatever it is they are trying to. Changing crop circles over time seems to me only explainable by forces or labor that is learning it's art, changing its methods and improving. Sounds like a human influence to me.
Of course, I don't pretend to know the answers. These are just my musings on the topic. These circles impress and make me curious as much as the next person. I don't deny the possible existence of aliens, but I think it is very very unlikely, and even if there are, none of what we've seen so far appears to originate from outside our planet. Lets consider the possibilities, keep an open mind and see what we can learn.
The difference is Australians don't pretend that they are some Righteous God-Fearing nation that is the Light of the World, and represents the Forces of Good against the hordes of evil.
Australians have no problem (well, I don't) in admitting their faults, and have no motivation to pretend that they are holy or righteous when in fact they aren't.
We are slowly taking over, while distracting you with "too US-centric" comments!
But now that you have discovered our secret plan, we must remove all references to your e-mail address on the web so that you cannot communicate to any other geeks! Muahahaha!
Why not use LTSP? It saves a great deal on admin work, and provides greater power and flexibility. Still, I am very impressed by this effort for someone not familiar with Linux - to even go so far as implementing it. Well done.
I do find the following humorous: I had experimented with Linux a few years earlier but found it somewhat difficult and incomplete. Because some time had passed, I decided to give Linux another try. Going with Mandrake's 8.0 distribution, I installed Linux at home to see if it could replace Windows in a desktop environment. To my amazement, I found Linux to be much more capable this time around. I was one step closer to making my decision to switch our computer lab to the Linux OS.
Yes, it's quite amazing how software changes over the years!
My favourite would have to be the Alpha Centauri scenario - humans leave earth, but fragment on arrival at new location. Then advance through technology rapidly. Then...they return to earth. And that is the UFO's we see now! These people left the earth before the last great world-wide destructive force, and during that calamnity most of the high-tech equipment was lost, and the people returned to a dark age. And our society began to grow again to what it is today.
Of course, I don't believe this, but it's fun to think of.
Re:Dell, Gateway, IBM - Schools can't buy from the
on
Maine School & Linux
·
· Score: 1
He said that they bought barebones systems.
By purchasing bare-bones computer ``kits'', we were able to save considerable money on the hardware. Part of the savings in purchasing a bare-bones system is that the computer does not come with an operating system.
So you can learn by intuition alone the option for ls to display in human readable format? or did you use ls --help or the man page? Documentation still has a place for the extremely computer literate, whether printed or online.
But I do agree with you - it is far better to teach the bigger picture than the specific implemenation. I'm tired of people who think internet = webpage, windows = computer, and so on. If we teach the principles then it won't be such a nightmare trying to get them to understand a problem.
I think you'd be surprised. I love them using Linux in the school, but for most people 30+ years old and only then started using computers, I think they'd have difficulty. They learn a specific instance of how to perform a task, not the general principles. Eg, asking how to open and save in different programs even though the process is the same.
I think for these reasons they'd have difficulty at least. The icons aren't all in the same place.
Still, I say go for it. They need to learn sometime.
Anyway, yes, the mouse issue was a bit silly, but I didn't really feel like mocking Bioware at the time. Read the Oct 25th and Nov 1st updates for details on the mouse story. We basically told them it was up to the individual, not NWN, to configure the mousewheel. I'll admit it was a bit disturbing that they didn't do this - which is why I consider it more important that they are open with their development process so we can help them.
To me it sounds like they've got some of their old employees who've been using linux a little in their spare time, who have now said that they think they could code a Linux version. And so they begin their first Linux project. Just a guess, of course.
This is the kind of in-depth update we have been waiting for. Bioware I think is learning that detailed information into the development process is actually appealing to the Linux community, whereas for windows users it's typically been vague like alpha, beta, almost gold, etc.
It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.
I hope from here that Bioware development for Linux will grow to work more hand in hand with the willing and eager Linux community, rather than the little information they previously gave. A progression from silence to this latest release has been clear. Perhaps if they decide to port the toolset too they will be even more open and we'll be able to help them quicker!
Either way, I can't wait to play this game under Linux.
And for those who don't know - they previously anounced that Bink (movies) and Miles (sound) were available for Linux when they thought they weren't. They later discovered there was no Bink for Linux, and that is why movies don't work.
Slashdot Mirror
If you are desparate for my to link to something, then I can link you to a book I have heard is good but have not personally read. Here it is if you like. I just don't really see the need to post links. There are people out there who have dedicated their careers to this. Their resources are readily available with google. Why do you need me? I'll happily direct anyone to resources in person, but on slashdot a person has to convince me they are genuinely interested - since every time previously I have ended up in circles. As I said I don't want to end up defending arguments on those websites or books. I'll leave that up to the people who have dedicated their careers to it.
I hope that clears it up.
Anyway, it's no different from the "We're talking about millions of years" portal. As Fry said (Futurama), "Time makes fools of us all."
Besides, I've argued with you before, I still remember you. I remember being very frustrated at you failing to listen to what I was saying. No way I want to do that again.
What we can test is the assumptions, the things we would expect to see given a certain explanation of the origins. And this is where science comes into play - both for creationism and evolution.
To explain...creationism describes the earth as being around 6000 years old now. The way to disprove this is clear then - demonstrate that the earth is older than 6000 years old. We are all familiar with the common methods to do this - radiocarbon dating, etc. These are all scientific methods being used to verify or disprove a philosophical/religious position.
Evolution is the same. Evolution says that the Cambrian age predates the Jurassic age. The way to disprove this is then to show a case where the Jurassic age predates the Cambrian age.
These are basic examples, but they suffice to show why science is employed by two opposing philosophical/religious positions. Science provides the evidence, and philosophy/religion ties it together and discusses how the pieces fit together.
http://www.xenu.net/
If you are curious there are plenty of resources available, but I'm not interested in walking in circles again.
My goal here was not to pursuade anyone of my position, but instead ask them to think that the people they talk to about this issue are real people that can think, and are a part of the slashdot community - not some outsider.
Close to 6000 but I do not know for certain.
Perhaps by pointing out the obvious cycle I can avoid it (or perhaps because I mention it someone will reply saying it to get modded +3 funny). But every time a creationist posts their arguments some ignorant person replies by saying "you believe a fairy tale" or "if you like to believe myths that's your choice". Grow up. Of all places the slashdot community should try to be aware of these comments. Use logic, reason, arguments. Despite what you might think, the truth _is_ important to me, and I'm sure if I could meet you in person I would be able to impart that feeling to you - that I have thought about what I believe. That I have followed rational steps that lead to this conclusion.
Just to dispel a few myths. Any evolutionist who reads this and wants to quote his favorite "15 refutations of creationist arguments" I've already seen that website. It's simply arguing against positions only held by christians who also don't understand creationism or evolution. Creationists understand and agree with natural selection. If you don't understand how we can believe that and still believe creationism/not believe evolution, then you don't understand creationist arguments!
I do not think this attitude of "evolution is right" should be encouraged on slashdot. Lets acknowledge that just like there are some who vouch for vi and others who swear by emacs, there are some who think evolution is rational and some who think creationism is a better position. Lets deal with facts. All of us (well almost all) would agree that scientology is a deceitful institute that should be dispelled. Yet when you talk about creation vs evolution you are talking about something that many slashdotters are themselves split on. This only hurts the community as far as I can see.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue my position. I've done that many times, and invariably the above happens. All I'm asking is that we change this culture and start to respect opinions of each other. It is certainly true that no-one's opinion will be changed or opened unless there is respect for each other - and comments like this one eliminate all respect that a creationist might have for an evolutionist slashdotter. Please stop.
I can't believe people here have so little imagination. It's almost like they are posting just to get modded up for having a 'radical' opinion. I mean, come on, what's the problem with SVG? It's not like the time spent coding on it is going to mean KDE3.2 will be delayed a month, or that Gnome will have more bugs. This is just one of the many enhancements that make Linux, and software in general, nicer. We should be talking about the fun things we can do with SVG, or the improvements that could be made, or any encouraging notes on it. Not about whether it has a point at all.
Let me illustrate some points for the creatively challenged:
So, onto something more positive: what's the state of SVG in KDE? I really enjoyed it in Gnome 2 for the time I used it, but it was a bit slower when they got large. These speed improvements are certainly good news.
- Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince"
Taken from the Alpha Centauri computer game.
This is exactly what I used to say. Sports is something you do, not something you watch.
So while you "hackers" watch the super bowl I'll be surfing!
Wooo!!!
(not saying I _can_ surf, but I'm going to try)
Followup after some musing: If I had money I'd create some robots or machines that could bend the crops for me. I'd have a computer program to design the circles and the patterns for it. Then, I'd place a device in the center of the pattern which acts as a server for the machines that create the circle. They then follow predescribed paths from the origin point creating the circles quickly and perfectly.
Here's what I think is likely. There's a group of secret, elite crop circl creators. They started off small and simple, but their techniques have improved tremendously and have extended their efforts across the world. Whatever mundane method it is that they use causes a lot of those wierd things mentioned in the article above. Perhaps they have some fascinating machinery to produce the effect, or some chemicals, or both. I can explain the nausea, etc, easily: people who encounter these things and cannot explain them will be mentally affected. They will feel confused, amazed, scared, whatever. This translates into physical chnages.
Consider also the other wierd magnetic effects, noises, radiation, etc. Whatever method is being used to create the circles leaves this residue - whether it be alien or human technology. Just because the devices used to create the circles is unknown does not mean it must be used by aliens. After all, America and Britain can't even prove for certain that Iraq has WMD. What happened to their amazing technology and uber spies? We need you Mr. Bond.
I consider this the most likely scenario. If aliens, then why do they never visit us? I know that many claim that they do through channeling or mediums, but this is easily dispelled - these methods have been used for the last 4-5000 years for communicating with spirits, the dead (supposedly) and much more. Whatever it is that they communicate with, it is a liar and uses the same method for different deceptions. The answer is not aliens. We are supposed to be amazed by the amazing technology of these supposed aliens, yet they must resort to crop circles? No, I don't think the answer is there.
The answer seems to lie in the fact that the crop circles are changing and evolving. If it were aliens that knew so much, their methods would be rather stagnant if the crop circles are a common method for them to achieve whatever it is they are trying to. Changing crop circles over time seems to me only explainable by forces or labor that is learning it's art, changing its methods and improving. Sounds like a human influence to me.
Of course, I don't pretend to know the answers. These are just my musings on the topic. These circles impress and make me curious as much as the next person. I don't deny the possible existence of aliens, but I think it is very very unlikely, and even if there are, none of what we've seen so far appears to originate from outside our planet. Lets consider the possibilities, keep an open mind and see what we can learn.
Seriously though, you should have upgraded!
Australians have no problem (well, I don't) in admitting their faults, and have no motivation to pretend that they are holy or righteous when in fact they aren't.
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. J.Howard.MP@aph.gov.au
But now that you have discovered our secret plan, we must remove all references to your e-mail address on the web so that you cannot communicate to any other geeks! Muahahaha!
I do find the following humorous:
I had experimented with Linux a few years earlier but found it somewhat difficult and incomplete. Because some time had passed, I decided to give Linux another try. Going with Mandrake's 8.0 distribution, I installed Linux at home to see if it could replace Windows in a desktop environment. To my amazement, I found Linux to be much more capable this time around. I was one step closer to making my decision to switch our computer lab to the Linux OS.
Yes, it's quite amazing how software changes over the years!
Of course, I don't believe this, but it's fun to think of.
By purchasing bare-bones computer ``kits'', we were able to save considerable money on the hardware. Part of the savings in purchasing a bare-bones system is that the computer does not come with an operating system.
But I do agree with you - it is far better to teach the bigger picture than the specific implemenation. I'm tired of people who think internet = webpage, windows = computer, and so on. If we teach the principles then it won't be such a nightmare trying to get them to understand a problem.
I think for these reasons they'd have difficulty at least. The icons aren't all in the same place.
Still, I say go for it. They need to learn sometime.
Anyway, yes, the mouse issue was a bit silly, but I didn't really feel like mocking Bioware at the time. Read the Oct 25th and Nov 1st updates for details on the mouse story. We basically told them it was up to the individual, not NWN, to configure the mousewheel. I'll admit it was a bit disturbing that they didn't do this - which is why I consider it more important that they are open with their development process so we can help them.
To me it sounds like they've got some of their old employees who've been using linux a little in their spare time, who have now said that they think they could code a Linux version. And so they begin their first Linux project. Just a guess, of course.
This is the kind of in-depth update we have been waiting for. Bioware I think is learning that detailed information into the development process is actually appealing to the Linux community, whereas for windows users it's typically been vague like alpha, beta, almost gold, etc.
It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.
I hope from here that Bioware development for Linux will grow to work more hand in hand with the willing and eager Linux community, rather than the little information they previously gave. A progression from silence to this latest release has been clear. Perhaps if they decide to port the toolset too they will be even more open and we'll be able to help them quicker!
Either way, I can't wait to play this game under Linux.
And for those who don't know - they previously anounced that Bink (movies) and Miles (sound) were available for Linux when they thought they weren't. They later discovered there was no Bink for Linux, and that is why movies don't work.