Yes yes, we all know it runs Linux, it was announced ages ago, the actual distro was announced last month.
And I commented on the Yellow Dog distro when it appeared here - I thought this was noteworthy since it was the first time Sony had acknowledged in writing that an open platform was indeed a stated intention.
That's an interesting question. I suppose carving a hole in someone's brain or heart could cause serious problems almost immediately, but if the wound is cauterized as it is made, it may be a relatively ineffective weapon.
I think/. as a whole tends to agree with Trépanier. Don't FORCE proprietary media formats at us through a console.
If you are making the argument that the cost of the Bluray laser is not worth the price, I understand that argument. But these formats are all proprietary. Every one of them. I can't do anything with a 'Nintendo DVD' or a 'Playstation DVD', even though they are in fact on DVD media.
Really, it doesn't matter if they sell games printed on sponges or in vials of liquid or anything, as long as the games have what they need, right? (again excepting the cost argument). I really don't care if Nintendo (or whomever) is saving money; that's their problem.
In the end it comes down to what the consumer spends their money on. A good percent of people know they're getting a Blu-Ray player and that it's non-gaming functionality directly competes with HD-DVD if they purchase a PS3. I'm sure a lot of them see the Blu-Ray as a bonus. But I'd say even more people are outraged that Sony is offering them a product that is overpriced because of functionality they don't want or need. The consumer has a right to be angry, too. I know I wanted to play the next Gran Turismo, but now I doubt I ever will.
Ah, but I dispute your 'functionality they don't want or need'. It will have a huge impact on games, something they very much want. Developers agree with me.
The Wii's support for DVD is one of very few times that the big N has strayed from its defining "not made here" syndrome.
No kidding. That's an argument that I've never understood - often employed in the whole Bluray discussion. "If it doesn't catch on, its useless to consumers". Well its not like I can take a Nintendo 'DVD' or a Playstation 'DVD' and do anything else with it, is there?
Nintendo used to sell games in boxes of RAM. Doesn't get much more proprietary than that.
Interesting. It looks like they might be serious about making the PS3 into a general computing device. It's still a little expensive to really be useful, but maybe in a few years when the price comes down and we find out what kind of performance you can get in general computing tasks (maybe running linux?), it could be cool.
Yeah, that was my impression also. I think it will probably be iffy on general computing tasks because of the in-order processing, but for some wizzy media processing - assuming we can take advantage of Yellow Dog's Cell kit - there might be some great possibilities.
This OPEN PLATFORM thing appeared too...
on
PS3 Opened For Pictures
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· Score: 4, Interesting
... for interested linux people: check this out. Just a teaser, but looks promising.
PLAYSTATION®3 allows any desired third-party system software to be installed on it besides its system software provided by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Details will be posted on this site soon.
Interesting, no? Add that to the fact that there are 3rd party memory cards supported, and no wacky media formats in the PS3's OS (its all MP3/AAC/MPEG2/MPEG4), and makes one hope, distantly, that Sony may be changing their ways...
No, I'm not saying that this is all Sony's fault, or that they are juridically responsible. But I think it is a problem when companies plan for and profit from violence at product releases.
Riiight. So when a scuffle breaks out in a Wii lineup, we will say the same thing, yes?
You have got to be kidding me. "Plan for and profit from violence?" If you think Sony set this up somehow - through selling less of their product than they'd like, no less - well, have some more kool aid, you're too far gone for reason.
(Incidentally, defense contractors 'profit from violence at product launches', are you unequivocally opposed to them?)
Please. You speak as though the Geneva Convention is holy writ. The uncomfortable truth about it is that signatories are not required to abide by its principles if they decide their enemy is not conducting warfare according to the Convention.
Two questions.
1. Can you point me to that clause in the Conventions? I was not familiar with that. (As I understood it, signed international treaties are the law of the land.) I'm curious to see what you are referring to.
2. Assuming your 'uncomfortable truth' is correct, and a nation does not have to follow them in combat with an enemy who does not recognize the Conventions, do you think - personally - that we should still follow them on moral grounds?
OK. So he works for Diebold. Diebold has rolled out a bunch of machines in Ohio. Hence, if the president wins in Ohio, he gets the electoral votes. Diebold machines were used to record the votes that eventually gave the electoral votes to the president. So Diebold had a part in delivering the electoral votes to the president. Naturally everyone assumes evil undertones in the message.
See, I read that, and I think - it doesn't matter if the company is completely honest and above reproach. This shit should not be in private hands, period. Too important. Like a judge, the mere appearance of possible impropriety should be enough to disallow these kinds of political-corporate connections.
I think it was just a case of sensationalist Democrats completely twisting the message since it could possibly be interpreted in a bad way. But that's just par for the course for them...
Ah, couldn't resist could you. Par for the course, indeed.
You seem to think that the effort required for paper ballots would somehow deter someone who was determined to rig the vote.
It would deter someone - but it won't stop them. Voter suppression is an old game, but you must admit putting this stuff in a database makes it a little easier to mess with?
F* them all.
I hate bush, I hate Kerry.
I really dislike my representative.
I think my two options for Gov suck, I have the choice of an anti stem cell gun nut of fscking jerry brown for attorney general?
I give the fuck up.
That's overstating it a bit, isn't it? An HDTV will still be able to display a 480p game much better than a 480i game. Standard 480i is 4:3, and interlaced so it's half the resolution. 480p will give it a widescreen capability at 720x480 resolution @ 60fps.
Maybe - I'm just tired of it. (By the way, "60fps" depends on the developer of the game.) 480p does look nicer than regular SD video but at this point why not just buy a GameCube? All the Wii is offering me is a nifty controller. (I'm being a little dismissive but you see my point.)
480p's actually MUCH better than most people have EVER seen
Subjective call, I guess. It seems ludicrous to me. I'm really not trying to be a video snob, I don't pore thru Sound and Vision looking for goldplated cables or anything, but 480 is just so damn old. I admit the 'p' gives you a nice sharpness bump but its still blocky, crappy video.
HDTV's are not going to get mass adoption for at LEAST another year and a half to two.
Well, last go-round of consoles lasted about 6 years, much more than that for the PS2.
Can you convince me that all that higher resolution makes for better games or is it just more glitz for nada?
I submit to you that any game with a moderate amount of on-screen text would benefit tremendously. Are we really arguing against the benefits of resolution? I understand that perhaps you think Sony and MS went too far in relying on HD, at the cost of higher price/heat/complexity, but surely we can agree that higher resolution in general is a good thing? Right?
The reality is that for 720p or 1040p you're going to field as much muscle as a mid-end PC in this day and age.
Not exactly sure what you mean by that. If its that extra processing is needed to handle complex scenes at higher rez then I agree with you. I think the vast majority of HD console games will be 720p. That is a good trade-off. This is also why I think that if the Wii had just gone up to that (so-called) middle step of HD, it would be much more attractive down the line. I think they undershot.
Nintendo's trying for the best mix of playability, visual quality, and PROFITABILITY.
I don't give a damn about Nintendo's profitability.
I've been dabbling with creating a tv-based interface frontend and I've had a really hard time deciding what sizes to make things. I started development with the idea that I'd be running at a pretty high resolution (my 19" monitor), but then I realized that I wouldn't be sitting as close to the TV when it's set up (I'd like to be able to see what I'm doing even from across the room) and the TV won't be as sharp.
I've been having a really hard time trying to determine sizes without extensive trial and error.
Your requirements are a little different (in this case, easier) but there is in fact a discipline for this exact thing. Basically 'broadcast graphical design' or 'broadcast graphics' covers this for television.
The reason I say it is slightly easier in your case is because much of broadcast design involves working around inherent limitations in the NTSC signal. Text size is a big one. Most CRTs 'cut off' the edges of the picture as well, so you have what is called a Safe Title Area where you don't put important text - this wouldn't apply to a 19" monitor. Colour issues, interlacing, etc won't affect you with that display.
My recommendation is to try different layouts with varying text sizes/graphical layout and see what you like best. Just remember, if you are going to a SD picture/CRT, make everything BIG. Much, much bigger than you are used to on a computer monitor. (See Apple's interface for FrontRow for a great example.) Dark, sharp and shallow dropshadows for your on-screen text tend to help the characters pop out as well.
Re:Not even capable of what the original XBOX can
on
Wii Confirmed at 480p
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· Score: 1
I thought the Nintendo Wii was supposed to have similar capabilities as the original Xbox. There are many games that support 720p resolution on the old Xbox, with a few (simple) games supporting 1080i.
Is that true? I've never heard this. Which games, if you don't mind me asking?
Happily, you're wrong. It was confirmed months ago by Nintendo that one of the main differences between the Cube and Wii versions of Twilight Princess was that the Wii version would have native widescreen support. I don't have a source but it's all over the 'net (yes I realise that's a cop-out, but it's been a long day).
Although, it is maybe worth noting, that this 'widescreen' is actually anamorphic display (i.e. squeezed into 4:3 frame then displayed stretched out by the display). It is not actually rendering a different resolution. This is the same 'widescreen' we've had on the GameCube/PS2/Xbox for years (and 'widescreen' DVDs, to be fair).
Although, one problem that the 360 has is that many of the games are designed with HDTVs in mind. That leads to developers creating HUDs with text that is unreadably small on regular TVs. So far, I've noticed that problem in FEAR (the only unreadable text so far has been the name of the talking person in the upper left corner, which doesn't really matter), Dead Rising (the name of the weapon and some other misc. text, but it's not a HUGE deal... but that one gets annoying), and Madden. I primarily stick to playing Lumines, Geometry Wars and Fight Night, so I haven't seen every game in depth, but my roommate has complained about small type in other games.
I was just reading some of the Sony materials from the Tokyo Game Show - they actually addressed this issue specifically. It has become known as the 'Dead Rising Problem' amongst the devs, for the text being botched so bad on SD sets. The game store I frequent has a 32" old Trinitron running demos and it is basically impossible to read any of the game text (YMMV, but its pretty bad at any SD resolution).
Fortunately the answer is fairly simple. Don't use bitmap fonts, or create two sets of sizes for your elements. But the 'broadcast design' (i.e. screen layout and rules for such) of these new HD consoles is significantly different from SD graphics design. The HD versions don't need to worry about minimum readable font size, antialiasing (for NTSC, somewhat different than for 3D 'monitor' games), terrible colour gamut, overscan, etc.
Its not a hard problem to solve, but it is a necessary requirement for these games. World of Warcraft manages a scaling UI quite nicely.
It would be interesting to know how much of the video game market consists of people with HDTVs that actually do 720p/1080whatever. This also leads me to ask: "Does resolution really matter?"
Which leads me to answer: "Of course it fucking matters!"
Look, I get the argument. A lot of people don't have HDTVs yet. But this is a resolution that has been with us since the 50s people. It is positively ancient.
Not to mention, the inherent artifacts of NTSC (Never The Same Colour). 29.97 frames per second, not 30. No real reds (balanced to make caucasian skin look palatable). Interlaced. Its bullshit. And we all know it.
The Wii solves one problem - its progressive, so no interlacing. That's nice. But you still need to make considerations for: action-safe area on the TV (overscan), gigantic fonts (because the resolution is so bad), obscure broadcast-design limitations around aliasing and gradients, moire effect... I could go on and on.
480p, in my humble opinion, is the PS2 and GameCube and Xbox. It is yesteryear. I've been playing games in that resolution for over ten years. Its time for something that would not look like a postage stamp on my computer monitor. 720p would have been a nice boost.
Now all you experts can respond and tell me why I'm totally wrong.
It is basically my only real complaint about the Wii, but it is a huge one.
Most people don't have HDTVs. But I do. And the idea of buying a console that will never talk to it, never show me the full picture, is irritating. Particularly because I like the Wii.
If they had just managed to get it up to 720p, this whole discussion would be moot. 1080p is great and all, but as far as content is concerned (i.e. tv shows, films, games that can drive it) 1080p is basically science fiction right now. Won't be common for years.
But 720 would have been awesome. Its a design istake in my opinion. Hopefully they can add it after the fact like the Xbox360 did, but I'm not holding my breath.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah you can swap it, its a standard form factor. Check the wiki page on PS3.
And I commented on the Yellow Dog distro when it appeared here - I thought this was noteworthy since it was the first time Sony had acknowledged in writing that an open platform was indeed a stated intention.
There's a lightsaber joke in here somewhere.
But it will be huge! Promise!
If you are making the argument that the cost of the Bluray laser is not worth the price, I understand that argument. But these formats are all proprietary. Every one of them. I can't do anything with a 'Nintendo DVD' or a 'Playstation DVD', even though they are in fact on DVD media.
Really, it doesn't matter if they sell games printed on sponges or in vials of liquid or anything, as long as the games have what they need, right? (again excepting the cost argument). I really don't care if Nintendo (or whomever) is saving money; that's their problem.
Ah, but I dispute your 'functionality they don't want or need'. It will have a huge impact on games, something they very much want. Developers agree with me.
No kidding. That's an argument that I've never understood - often employed in the whole Bluray discussion. "If it doesn't catch on, its useless to consumers". Well its not like I can take a Nintendo 'DVD' or a Playstation 'DVD' and do anything else with it, is there?
Nintendo used to sell games in boxes of RAM. Doesn't get much more proprietary than that.
Yeah, that was my impression also. I think it will probably be iffy on general computing tasks because of the in-order processing, but for some wizzy media processing - assuming we can take advantage of Yellow Dog's Cell kit - there might be some great possibilities.
PLAYSTATION®3 allows any desired third-party system software to be installed on it besides its system software provided by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Details will be posted on this site soon.
Interesting, no? Add that to the fact that there are 3rd party memory cards supported, and no wacky media formats in the PS3's OS (its all MP3/AAC/MPEG2/MPEG4), and makes one hope, distantly, that Sony may be changing their ways...
Riiight. So when a scuffle breaks out in a Wii lineup, we will say the same thing, yes?
You have got to be kidding me. "Plan for and profit from violence?" If you think Sony set this up somehow - through selling less of their product than they'd like, no less - well, have some more kool aid, you're too far gone for reason.
(Incidentally, defense contractors 'profit from violence at product launches', are you unequivocally opposed to them?)
Fabulous new mobile phone, lots of bells and whistles = people happily pay $500
Fabulous new video iPod, lots of nice features = people giddily pay $500
Fabulous new game console, nex-gen features = people freak out, say $500 is way way too much.
If you don't have a net connection for the PS3, I imagine they will be distributing updates with purchased game discs, like they do with the PSP.
Two questions.
1. Can you point me to that clause in the Conventions? I was not familiar with that. (As I understood it, signed international treaties are the law of the land.) I'm curious to see what you are referring to.
2. Assuming your 'uncomfortable truth' is correct, and a nation does not have to follow them in combat with an enemy who does not recognize the Conventions, do you think - personally - that we should still follow them on moral grounds?
See, I read that, and I think - it doesn't matter if the company is completely honest and above reproach. This shit should not be in private hands, period. Too important. Like a judge, the mere appearance of possible impropriety should be enough to disallow these kinds of political-corporate connections.
Ah, couldn't resist could you. Par for the course, indeed.
It would deter someone - but it won't stop them. Voter suppression is an old game, but you must admit putting this stuff in a database makes it a little easier to mess with?
Then you will get the government you deserve.
I'm awfully sure that some script kiddie moron can't alter tens of thousands of paper ballots instantly with a fucking Excel hack.
Maybe - I'm just tired of it. (By the way, "60fps" depends on the developer of the game.) 480p does look nicer than regular SD video but at this point why not just buy a GameCube? All the Wii is offering me is a nifty controller. (I'm being a little dismissive but you see my point.)
Subjective call, I guess. It seems ludicrous to me. I'm really not trying to be a video snob, I don't pore thru Sound and Vision looking for goldplated cables or anything, but 480 is just so damn old. I admit the 'p' gives you a nice sharpness bump but its still blocky, crappy video.
Well, last go-round of consoles lasted about 6 years, much more than that for the PS2.
I submit to you that any game with a moderate amount of on-screen text would benefit tremendously. Are we really arguing against the benefits of resolution? I understand that perhaps you think Sony and MS went too far in relying on HD, at the cost of higher price/heat/complexity, but surely we can agree that higher resolution in general is a good thing? Right?
Not exactly sure what you mean by that. If its that extra processing is needed to handle complex scenes at higher rez then I agree with you. I think the vast majority of HD console games will be 720p. That is a good trade-off. This is also why I think that if the Wii had just gone up to that (so-called) middle step of HD, it would be much more attractive down the line. I think they undershot.
I don't give a damn about Nintendo's profitability.
I don't agree that the quality changes, it doesn't make a difference to the picture. However it makes a bog difference to editing and broadcasting.
Your requirements are a little different (in this case, easier) but there is in fact a discipline for this exact thing. Basically 'broadcast graphical design' or 'broadcast graphics' covers this for television.
The reason I say it is slightly easier in your case is because much of broadcast design involves working around inherent limitations in the NTSC signal. Text size is a big one. Most CRTs 'cut off' the edges of the picture as well, so you have what is called a Safe Title Area where you don't put important text - this wouldn't apply to a 19" monitor. Colour issues, interlacing, etc won't affect you with that display.
My recommendation is to try different layouts with varying text sizes/graphical layout and see what you like best. Just remember, if you are going to a SD picture/CRT, make everything BIG. Much, much bigger than you are used to on a computer monitor. (See Apple's interface for FrontRow for a great example.) Dark, sharp and shallow dropshadows for your on-screen text tend to help the characters pop out as well.
Is that true? I've never heard this. Which games, if you don't mind me asking?
Although, it is maybe worth noting, that this 'widescreen' is actually anamorphic display (i.e. squeezed into 4:3 frame then displayed stretched out by the display). It is not actually rendering a different resolution. This is the same 'widescreen' we've had on the GameCube/PS2/Xbox for years (and 'widescreen' DVDs, to be fair).
I was just reading some of the Sony materials from the Tokyo Game Show - they actually addressed this issue specifically. It has become known as the 'Dead Rising Problem' amongst the devs, for the text being botched so bad on SD sets. The game store I frequent has a 32" old Trinitron running demos and it is basically impossible to read any of the game text (YMMV, but its pretty bad at any SD resolution).
Fortunately the answer is fairly simple. Don't use bitmap fonts, or create two sets of sizes for your elements. But the 'broadcast design' (i.e. screen layout and rules for such) of these new HD consoles is significantly different from SD graphics design. The HD versions don't need to worry about minimum readable font size, antialiasing (for NTSC, somewhat different than for 3D 'monitor' games), terrible colour gamut, overscan, etc.
Its not a hard problem to solve, but it is a necessary requirement for these games. World of Warcraft manages a scaling UI quite nicely.
Which leads me to answer: "Of course it fucking matters!"
Look, I get the argument. A lot of people don't have HDTVs yet. But this is a resolution that has been with us since the 50s people. It is positively ancient.
Not to mention, the inherent artifacts of NTSC (Never The Same Colour). 29.97 frames per second, not 30. No real reds (balanced to make caucasian skin look palatable). Interlaced. Its bullshit. And we all know it.
The Wii solves one problem - its progressive, so no interlacing. That's nice. But you still need to make considerations for: action-safe area on the TV (overscan), gigantic fonts (because the resolution is so bad), obscure broadcast-design limitations around aliasing and gradients, moire effect... I could go on and on.
480p, in my humble opinion, is the PS2 and GameCube and Xbox. It is yesteryear. I've been playing games in that resolution for over ten years. Its time for something that would not look like a postage stamp on my computer monitor. 720p would have been a nice boost.
Did I miss anything?
Most people don't have HDTVs. But I do. And the idea of buying a console that will never talk to it, never show me the full picture, is irritating. Particularly because I like the Wii.
If they had just managed to get it up to 720p, this whole discussion would be moot. 1080p is great and all, but as far as content is concerned (i.e. tv shows, films, games that can drive it) 1080p is basically science fiction right now. Won't be common for years.
But 720 would have been awesome. Its a design istake in my opinion. Hopefully they can add it after the fact like the Xbox360 did, but I'm not holding my breath.