Nope, being more compatible with gcc implies it supports more gcc extensions. That's one reason why the Linux kernel used to break so much between gcc versions, as gcc is chock full of neat and not so neat extensions to the C language.
How did a discussion of an anti-semite continue on to a discussion of the evils of Israel? Oh yeah, because if you hate Jews it's probably for a good reason and the good reason nowadays is Israel!
In America, and to a lesser extent in Britain, criticism of Israel is considered "anti-semitic" by hardline supporters of Israel. The association of Israel with Jewish identity benefits such people because they can constantly bring the accusation of ant-semitism against anyone questioning Israeli policies. For many non-Israeli Jews disgusted by those policies it makes it harder to have a rational debate, as they are imeediattely called "traitors" by the hardliners. At the same time, people who are truly anti-semitic benefit because acts perpetuated by Israel can be used as a stick to beat the whole Jewish race.
Many Jews in Britain are unhappy about Israeli actions. They also realise that association of Israel with all Jews is going to make them more of a target for hate. But as I've said public debate is stifled by the shrill cries of the hardliners. The result is a recorded increase in hate crime in Britain, directed at people who often don't even agree with the things being done in their name.
Considering terrorism a simple form of violence is a fatal fallacy. The only thing you can do with peacefully with terrorists is to give up.
Not true. You counter terrorism by looking at the reasons why people are resorting to it, and then trying to remove those reasons. It's a question of compromise, and winning hearts and minds. It is slowly working in Northern Ireland, and has worked elsewhere (Borneo, where a tiny SAS force won the hearts and minds of the locals, undermining the insurgent guerilla forces). The US failed in Vietnam by trying to fight a conventional war. The US will fail in the long term to counter Arab hostility in the Middle East because they are again resorting to conventional armed forces.
Your understanding of Zionism is as lacking as it could be. Israel justifies its existence as a unique nation-state for the Jews. If you want practical justifications for why such a state is needed, look up any encyclopedia under the entry "Holocaust"
So that makes it OK to visit a holocaust on the Palestinians? Two wrongs don't make a right - and stop toeing the line about the Holocaust, it was directed against more than just Jews, but you don't hear about gypsies occupying land and declaring a nation state.
Just don't trivialize the Arab-Israeli conflict by appealing to the U.N. authority. Was the Jordanian control of West Bank prior to 1967 legal...
This goes back to the "who cast the first stone" argument. And of course the Imperial ambitions of Britain and France didn't exactly help when it came to defining the boundaries of Middle Eastern states. And pray why is the appealing to UN authority "trivialising" - is it because the UN represents more than than the views of one nation?
Anyway, this argument is going to go around in circles because many people (yourself included?) will carry on arguing in Israels favour regardless of the situation. And the situation for me is that I can't stand the hypocrisy of the Israeli government, the US government or the British government. I don't kid myself that many Palestinian leaders are saints, but I do know that ordinary Palestinians have suffered at the hands of Israel and to some extent their not always honest Arab neighbours. And thanks to the festering of this issue for the last fifty years I can now look forward to a war against Iraq that I don't agree with, and the possibility of being gassed on the London Underground or whatever.
Even without this, Apple would never have chosen Linux
Didn't Apple finance one of the Linux distros that runs on older Apple hardware? My memory's a bit hazy on this as I've never owned an m68k or PowerPC machine of any kind, but I'm sure it's true.
The "standard" NetBSD iso image contains everything you need to install for a basic desktop machine. It includes compilers, X Window system, etc. What it doesn't include is third party stuff like KDE, GNOME or Apache. That can be installed from the packages collection (akin to the FreeBSD ports collection, only a port is a different architecture in NetBSD terminology). If you can't or wont install packages from the FTP sites, then there are supplemental iso images for the i386 architecture that contain a massive amount of precompiled packages.
there are people who advocate hatred in every society. the nazis rounded up millions of civilians and slaughtered them. israelis have not. for you to equate the israelis with the nazis is ignorant.
Just because there are people advocating hate in every society doesn't make it right. And you may want to check your own level of ignorance, last time I checked there were millions of Palestinians rounded up into the West Bank and Gaza, having been evicted by force from land they had lived on for centuries. And as for slaughter, check up on the activities of the Jewish forces during the foundation of Israel - murdering Arab civilians was common place.
I can and will equate the extremists in Israeli society with Nazis, because they are very vocal about the policies I attributed to them in my previous post. The proposals to ethnically cleanse the West Bank by any means necessary is not conjecture, but the avowed policies of some of the parties represented in the Knesset. It's also the view of the head of the Israeli land forces.
israel invades neighbors defensively, in response to attacks, such as missiles and mortar fire coming from across the border in lebanon
Israel threw the first stone. It's a state born out of violence, and perpetuated by violence.
try educating yourself about the facts if you want to post about such issues. most likely you're just being a troll, though, i don't know why i waste my time responding to you.
I've been to Israel, met many different people both Arabs and Jews. Go back far enough in my family tree and you'll find Jewish blood on my fathers side. I'm not a troll, I'm simply cheesed off with the misinformed gibberish that most people spout about the Middle East. Having lived in America, I can understand the bias there - the popular press is rabidly pro-Israeli, and any politician who upsets the Jewish lobby can kiss their career goodbye. The sad thing is there are people on both sides of the Arab-Israeli divide who are level headed and reasonable, but their voices are drowned out by populist bullshit from all sides. Even when the cheif Rabbi in Britain questioned Israeli human rights abuses, he was shouted down by the loudmouted Israeli apologists in his won society.
However, the seized Jews were not an insignificant contribution to the German economic recovery as a large portion of them were used as slave labor for many corporations.
Slave labour didn't become large scale until the mid war years. The whole German economy was ill prepared for war in 1939, gearing up for hostilities to commmence four or five years later. This is why it took the "total war" plan and Speers reorganisation to get German production upto its peak in late 1944. Remarkable considering the damage wrought by Allied bombing at this point, but less so when you know how much spare capacity there had been.
As Hitler's economic chief Speer constantly pointed out, the slave labour was utterly inefficient and only suited to menial tasks. Much of the work done in concentration camps was making uniforms and insignia, very few people were put into things like producing bullets as the scope for sabotage was too great.
Think about it, how efficient is a slave labour force going to be, especially when it's being worked to death? Many outside the SS could see the folly in this, but by then the SS was a state within a state and outside conventional government control. Elite troops were even kept from the front line simply to concentrate on the Final Solution, despite the desperate need for them to stop the Soviet advance.
The illusion of a well organised Nazi state is one myth that has been disproved time and time again. If the Nazi's had been thoroughly organised and a little more pragmatic (like playing upto Ukrainian nationalism and hatred of Bolshevism during the first stages of occupation), then the USSR would most likely have asked for an armistice in 1942.
And violent acts lead to more violent acts - that's why September 11th happened. Arabs hate the US because they sponsor Israel, a state which has pursued policies similar to the Third Reichs for more than fifty years. For example:
Many mainstream Israeli politicians and senior military figures support the ethnic cleansing, and in some cases liquidation of the Palestinians. Sounds awfully like Nazi policies towards Jews, gypsies and Slavs to me.
Israel is a state which justifies its existence on religious/political tracts from over 2000 years ago. Think Nazi "lebensraum" and interest in the Teutonic Knights, but replace Russia with Palestine.
Israel ignores UN resolutions and invades neighbouring states. Think the League of Nations and the appeasement of Hitler over Czechoslovakia.
So here we have a state that uses military aggression against civilians, essentially its own citizens. They pursue research and production of weapons of mass destruction, and have violated other states sovereignty to assasinate figures they don't like. Sounds like Iraq, but it also applies equally to Israel. Of course Israel doesn't have massive oil reserves, and the US has a powerful pro-Israeli lobby along with a president financed by oil hungry industry.
The Telegraph article linked to a number of times in this Slashdot thread should be taken in context. It's published in Britain by a dubious Canadian with pro-Israeli views, a man who censures his own staff and others if they write anything that criticises Israeli policies or highlights Palestinian grievances. Of course Fischer isn't going to be portrayed in a balanced light by the Telegraph... ignore Fischers disgust at the way the US has treated him and his likely mental issues, he looks more anti-semitic that way.
Given that a huge part of the sudden return to economic prosperity Germany achieved after 1933 was from Hitler's seizures of Jewish property and bank accounts, no, I don't think you can neglect the fact that Hitler hated Jews
You might want to go and check your history books again. The German economic recovery of the 1930's was brought about by deficit spending and huge public works schemes like the autobahns. Very similar to Roosevelts policies in the US. The difference was that much of the Reich's spending went on military equipment, which doesn't provide for long term growth.
Ultimately, the seized property of Jews was totally insignificant to German economic recovery. In fact, the loss of Jewish capital and professionals was more likely a hindrance to economic recovery.
This is not the right way. Linux should be for *everybody*, not just those who can understand the way-too-difficuly installer.
You're confusing Linux with Debian GNU/Linux. All the Debian users I know (it's been a long time since I last made the mistake of attending a LUG meeting so it's been a while since I met any) don't use it because it's easy. In fact, they get perverse pleasure out of the fact that a lot of people don't use it.
They love to bad mouth anyone who doesn't use it, badgering them into trying it. Then when the would be convert reverts back to their previous distro in disgust, the beardies simply get all smug and superior. These Debian users (I'll give the developers the benefit of the doubt, although the only one of them I know is an arrogant tosser), are the the spiritual brothers of real ale fanatics. In fact, at the local LUG there is an unsurprising correlation between CAMRA and LUG membership. The kind of c*nts who'll drink something that smells and most likely tastes like bear piss (I've tried real ale but not bear wee, so the comparison is supposition) just becasue it makes them a minority.
"Everybody I know likes RedHat so it must be the best!"
Nice logic.
Nope, or else it'd be Windows 2000 as that's the most popular OS among people I know. Anyway, what makes your opinion any better, I assume your a Debian user? The reason all the companies I worked at chose RedHat was because it was the one that met their technical needs. Now crawl back under your rock - I'm sure there's some more files you need to apt_get to keep your l33t system upto date.
But if by quality you mean a system with new, hot and unstested packages and late security fixes, by all means RedHat must be of much higher quality
Do you or your employer (assuming you actually work), actually use Debian for mission critical systems? As I said in another post, how many companies do you know of who trust Debian as there Linux distribution of choice, (and no, a site like Slashdot is not a representative example)? The only corporate settings where I have heard rumour of Debian being used, is where it's been slipped in as a file server on the quiet.
All the Linux using companies I have worked at have followed a similar path in selecting their distribution:
Do we have to use a particular distribution for a commercial app we need support for (eg. Informix mandating SuSE a few years back).
If not, which suits our technical requirements best?
Based on those criteria, the choice (made by programmers, not managers) has always been RedHat unless option one applies. And no, as a contractor I didn't have any input on those decisions.
I know you can still do everything by the command line but how often people actualy do that as oposed to using the fast and dirty gui
Many of us running RedHat Linux on a server with only console access. All the non-developmental servers I use or have used, had the X packages and anything related to them removed.
I dont think anyone will disagree with the fact that RPM has the worst dependincies detection ever
If that's your main technical criticism of RedHat's distribution, then you might want to check out a BSD. They have excellent package dependency detection, and a better text installer to boot. OK, the OpenBSD installer isn't too hot when it comes to partitioning, but that and the shitty attitude of certain OpenBSD coders is why I run NetBSD as my first choice of OS.
I think RH and Mandrake are great for the linux newbie or the linux geek
And how many companies do you know that are running Debian as their Linux distribution of choice? I understand that Slashdot are, but they are a geek (god, I hate that word) novelty. All the businesses I have worked for in the last five or six years choose either RedHat, SuSE or a BSD.
Does the graphical frontend actually offer any significant additions over the text one?
Consistency for starters. There is no consistency in the way that the pieces of the current Debian text installer work. And that "thing" to select various packages is the worst console application I have ever seen - unintuitive, slow and a nightmare to navigate.
The recent reviews of Debian (or more pertinently the installer), highlighted genuine problems. I sat there and read the reviews thinking, "why don't they just add the Progeny installer as an extra option for i386". Having tried (and failed) to install Debian Woody on a Sparc several times, I went back to RedHat Linux and NetBSD. NetBSD is an example of how a text installer should work, and RedHat is an example of a GPL Linux distro that is of much higher quality than Debian.
Now the Debian zealots will come out of the woodwork pointing out that Debian is "more free" than RedHat. Bullshit unless your confusing standard RedHat Linux with Advanced Server. And all the Debian zealots ignore the fact that they are using it because they're mostly elitist f*ckwits who can't accept that RedHat pisses all over Debian in terms of quality and usability.
The website linked to may require Windows Media Viewer, but if you had engaged your brain while reading the Slashdot article you would notice that it's not Lulu Tech Circuses website. It is in fact a TV station website *reporting* on Lulu Tech Circus.
I haven't seen any comments on this yet, but they may have been moderated below my threshold. However, it has got to be said that Owen Taylor has some seriously nasty facial hair. It's always interesting to see what people you know from faceless mediums like mailing lists and IRC actually look like, but I never imagained Owen Taylor would resemble a 70's porn star...
Anyway, the interview was far more insightful than most I've seen of late. Quite surprising, as I'm generally unimpressed with the interviewers usual review output.
I've been using both Linux and BSD for about 5 years.
If that's true, then you havent learnt much.
My own impression is that Linux developers try harder to make system work on various hardware
Your impression's very wrong. NetBSD runs on more architectures than Linux, and they are often more actively maintained (Sparc32 Linux is currently unmaintained, and VAX support seems to have stagnated). Where Linux does support devices that the BSDs don't, it is invariably flaky and untested. Whereas in the BSD world support for a device has to be well tested before inclusion in a stable release, the Linux philosophy is "release early" (and release buggy). This early release philosophy gives the illusion of greater hardware support, but it's not much use if you're after stable support.
Linux recognised USB and Firewire long before BSD did.
Bullshit. NetBSD did.
The other point is that Linux vendor did not ignore X11 configuration problems. Comparing to typical nightmare on BSD. For years all my BSD-addicted friends used BSD mostly as head-less servers.
Well then, your friends must be pretty clueless, as the configuration of X is identical under BSD and Linux. Not surprising seeing as it's the same software.
Portability is third reason to mention. I've tried Oracle, Java and win32 applications on Linux 3-5 years ago. But even today I doubt anyone will trust such applications running on BSD.
Portability? You're having a laugh arent you? Porting applications from commercial Unix to Linux is much more of a headache than porting to BSD. Firstly, there's no standard Linux distribution, and all the distributions have subtly different patched kernel versions. BSD in contrast, is closer to commercial Unix (unsurprisngly given it's heritage). Emulation of other Unix variants is excellent in the BSDs. I can run Linux software on my NetBSD box, and it usually runs faster.
Make conclusions yourself
Well my conclusion is that you're an ill informed twat.
I pointed out OpenBSD's concerns with OpenSSL on the NetBSD security list, and later summarised the points being made by Theo and others. The subsequent debate highlighted the fact that this is not a copyright issue, but a patent covenant one, and that Theo et. al. had misunderstood the purpose of Suns comments.
The hope is that the Sun code will be moved into a dedicated directory, as has been done with the problematic idea code. Then the code can be omitted when building binary packages for release. The source can be shipped with the offending code, and the end user can recompile OpenSSL to add it back in if the patent covenant is not an issue for them.
See the NetBSD mail archives at http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-security/2002/09 / for details.
If you're finding Mozilla sluggish, and haven't compiled it from source, then perhaps you want to look into rolling your own distribution. I've just built the latest nightly release on my NetBSD box, using "-O2 -march=i686" as the optimisation flags. It runs *very* snappily on my 1.2Ghz Celeron laptop, and is still usable on my 233Mhz desktop machine.
Yeah, and you might want to check out "A Child And His Lawnmower" by the Dead Kennedys. Suffice to say it's about a redneck shooting his misbehaving lawnmower...
Some clown in Sacramento was dragged into court
He shot his lawnmower
It disobeyed, it wouldn't start
Might makes right, it's the American way
They fined him $60 and sent him on his way
You know, some people don't take no sh*t
Maybe if they did they'd have half a brain left
NetBSD (http://www.netbsd.org/) runs like a dream on older hardware - I've had it running on an 8Mb 486DX2/66, and once the kernel was recompiled (on a nippier machine I might add), it worked quite smoothly.
SIAG Office (http://www.siag.nu/) relies on the Athena libraries - but the much more attractive NeXTstep themed ones rather than the ugly originals. NeXTaw is maintained by the SIAG Office author, so it's not going to suffer the same bitrot as other Athena based toolkits. This means none of the overhead associated with Abiword or Staroffice and their considerable dependencies - all in all, it's a neat software package.
Slashdot Mirror
shouldn't it be more standards compliant
Nope, being more compatible with gcc implies it supports more gcc extensions. That's one reason why the Linux kernel used to break so much between gcc versions, as gcc is chock full of neat and not so neat extensions to the C language.
Chris
How did a discussion of an anti-semite continue on to a discussion of the evils of Israel? Oh yeah, because if you hate Jews it's probably for a good reason and the good reason nowadays is Israel!
In America, and to a lesser extent in Britain, criticism of Israel is considered "anti-semitic" by hardline supporters of Israel. The association of Israel with Jewish identity benefits such people because they can constantly bring the accusation of ant-semitism against anyone questioning Israeli policies. For many non-Israeli Jews disgusted by those policies it makes it harder to have a rational debate, as they are imeediattely called "traitors" by the hardliners. At the same time, people who are truly anti-semitic benefit because acts perpetuated by Israel can be used as a stick to beat the whole Jewish race.
Many Jews in Britain are unhappy about Israeli actions. They also realise that association of Israel with all Jews is going to make them more of a target for hate. But as I've said public debate is stifled by the shrill cries of the hardliners. The result is a recorded increase in hate crime in Britain, directed at people who often don't even agree with the things being done in their name.
Chris
Considering terrorism a simple form of violence is a fatal fallacy. The only thing you can do with peacefully with terrorists is to give up.
Not true. You counter terrorism by looking at the reasons why people are resorting to it, and then trying to remove those reasons. It's a question of compromise, and winning hearts and minds. It is slowly working in Northern Ireland, and has worked elsewhere (Borneo, where a tiny SAS force won the hearts and minds of the locals, undermining the insurgent guerilla forces). The US failed in Vietnam by trying to fight a conventional war. The US will fail in the long term to counter Arab hostility in the Middle East because they are again resorting to conventional armed forces.
Your understanding of Zionism is as lacking as it could be. Israel justifies its existence as a unique nation-state for the Jews. If you want practical justifications for why such a state is needed, look up any encyclopedia under the entry "Holocaust"
So that makes it OK to visit a holocaust on the Palestinians? Two wrongs don't make a right - and stop toeing the line about the Holocaust, it was directed against more than just Jews, but you don't hear about gypsies occupying land and declaring a nation state.
Just don't trivialize the Arab-Israeli conflict by appealing to the U.N. authority. Was the Jordanian control of West Bank prior to 1967 legal ...
This goes back to the "who cast the first stone" argument. And of course the Imperial ambitions of Britain and France didn't exactly help when it came to defining the boundaries of Middle Eastern states. And pray why is the appealing to UN authority "trivialising" - is it because the UN represents more than than the views of one nation?
Anyway, this argument is going to go around in circles because many people (yourself included?) will carry on arguing in Israels favour regardless of the situation. And the situation for me is that I can't stand the hypocrisy of the Israeli government, the US government or the British government. I don't kid myself that many Palestinian leaders are saints, but I do know that ordinary Palestinians have suffered at the hands of Israel and to some extent their not always honest Arab neighbours. And thanks to the festering of this issue for the last fifty years I can now look forward to a war against Iraq that I don't agree with, and the possibility of being gassed on the London Underground or whatever.
Chris
I'd suggest asking on the FreeBSD current mailing list - you should get a much more informed reply there.
Even without this, Apple would never have chosen Linux
Didn't Apple finance one of the Linux distros that runs on older Apple hardware? My memory's a bit hazy on this as I've never owned an m68k or PowerPC machine of any kind, but I'm sure it's true.
Chris
The "standard" NetBSD iso image contains everything you need to install for a basic desktop machine. It includes compilers, X Window system, etc. What it doesn't include is third party stuff like KDE, GNOME or Apache. That can be installed from the packages collection (akin to the FreeBSD ports collection, only a port is a different architecture in NetBSD terminology). If you can't or wont install packages from the FTP sites, then there are supplemental iso images for the i386 architecture that contain a massive amount of precompiled packages.
Chris
there are people who advocate hatred in every society. the nazis rounded up millions of civilians and slaughtered them. israelis have not. for you to equate the israelis with the nazis is ignorant.
Just because there are people advocating hate in every society doesn't make it right. And you may want to check your own level of ignorance, last time I checked there were millions of Palestinians rounded up into the West Bank and Gaza, having been evicted by force from land they had lived on for centuries. And as for slaughter, check up on the activities of the Jewish forces during the foundation of Israel - murdering Arab civilians was common place.
I can and will equate the extremists in Israeli society with Nazis, because they are very vocal about the policies I attributed to them in my previous post. The proposals to ethnically cleanse the West Bank by any means necessary is not conjecture, but the avowed policies of some of the parties represented in the Knesset. It's also the view of the head of the Israeli land forces.
israel invades neighbors defensively, in response to attacks, such as missiles and mortar fire coming from across the border in lebanon
Israel threw the first stone. It's a state born out of violence, and perpetuated by violence.
try educating yourself about the facts if you want to post about such issues. most likely you're just being a troll, though, i don't know why i waste my time responding to you.
I've been to Israel, met many different people both Arabs and Jews. Go back far enough in my family tree and you'll find Jewish blood on my fathers side. I'm not a troll, I'm simply cheesed off with the misinformed gibberish that most people spout about the Middle East. Having lived in America, I can understand the bias there - the popular press is rabidly pro-Israeli, and any politician who upsets the Jewish lobby can kiss their career goodbye. The sad thing is there are people on both sides of the Arab-Israeli divide who are level headed and reasonable, but their voices are drowned out by populist bullshit from all sides. Even when the cheif Rabbi in Britain questioned Israeli human rights abuses, he was shouted down by the loudmouted Israeli apologists in his won society.
Chris
However, the seized Jews were not an insignificant contribution to the German economic recovery as a large portion of them were used as slave labor for many corporations.
Slave labour didn't become large scale until the mid war years. The whole German economy was ill prepared for war in 1939, gearing up for hostilities to commmence four or five years later. This is why it took the "total war" plan and Speers reorganisation to get German production upto its peak in late 1944. Remarkable considering the damage wrought by Allied bombing at this point, but less so when you know how much spare capacity there had been.
As Hitler's economic chief Speer constantly pointed out, the slave labour was utterly inefficient and only suited to menial tasks. Much of the work done in concentration camps was making uniforms and insignia, very few people were put into things like producing bullets as the scope for sabotage was too great.
Think about it, how efficient is a slave labour force going to be, especially when it's being worked to death? Many outside the SS could see the folly in this, but by then the SS was a state within a state and outside conventional government control. Elite troops were even kept from the front line simply to concentrate on the Final Solution, despite the desperate need for them to stop the Soviet advance.
The illusion of a well organised Nazi state is one myth that has been disproved time and time again. If the Nazi's had been thoroughly organised and a little more pragmatic (like playing upto Ukrainian nationalism and hatred of Bolshevism during the first stages of occupation), then the USSR would most likely have asked for an armistice in 1942.
Chris
Violent talks just lead to violent acts.
And violent acts lead to more violent acts - that's why September 11th happened. Arabs hate the US because they sponsor Israel, a state which has pursued policies similar to the Third Reichs for more than fifty years. For example:
So here we have a state that uses military aggression against civilians, essentially its own citizens. They pursue research and production of weapons of mass destruction, and have violated other states sovereignty to assasinate figures they don't like. Sounds like Iraq, but it also applies equally to Israel. Of course Israel doesn't have massive oil reserves, and the US has a powerful pro-Israeli lobby along with a president financed by oil hungry industry.
The Telegraph article linked to a number of times in this Slashdot thread should be taken in context. It's published in Britain by a dubious Canadian with pro-Israeli views, a man who censures his own staff and others if they write anything that criticises Israeli policies or highlights Palestinian grievances. Of course Fischer isn't going to be portrayed in a balanced light by the Telegraph ... ignore Fischers disgust at the way the US has treated him and his likely mental issues, he looks more anti-semitic that way.
Chris
Given that a huge part of the sudden return to economic prosperity Germany achieved after 1933 was from Hitler's seizures of Jewish property and bank accounts, no, I don't think you can neglect the fact that Hitler hated Jews
You might want to go and check your history books again. The German economic recovery of the 1930's was brought about by deficit spending and huge public works schemes like the autobahns. Very similar to Roosevelts policies in the US. The difference was that much of the Reich's spending went on military equipment, which doesn't provide for long term growth.
Ultimately, the seized property of Jews was totally insignificant to German economic recovery. In fact, the loss of Jewish capital and professionals was more likely a hindrance to economic recovery.
Chris
This is not the right way. Linux should be for *everybody*, not just those who can understand the way-too-difficuly installer.
You're confusing Linux with Debian GNU/Linux. All the Debian users I know (it's been a long time since I last made the mistake of attending a LUG meeting so it's been a while since I met any) don't use it because it's easy. In fact, they get perverse pleasure out of the fact that a lot of people don't use it.
They love to bad mouth anyone who doesn't use it, badgering them into trying it. Then when the would be convert reverts back to their previous distro in disgust, the beardies simply get all smug and superior. These Debian users (I'll give the developers the benefit of the doubt, although the only one of them I know is an arrogant tosser), are the the spiritual brothers of real ale fanatics. In fact, at the local LUG there is an unsurprising correlation between CAMRA and LUG membership. The kind of c*nts who'll drink something that smells and most likely tastes like bear piss (I've tried real ale but not bear wee, so the comparison is supposition) just becasue it makes them a minority.
Chris
Doesn't HP use Debian quite a bit?
The same company that gave us HP-UX. Mmmm.
Chris
"Everybody I know likes RedHat so it must be the best!"
Nice logic.
Nope, or else it'd be Windows 2000 as that's the most popular OS among people I know. Anyway, what makes your opinion any better, I assume your a Debian user? The reason all the companies I worked at chose RedHat was because it was the one that met their technical needs. Now crawl back under your rock - I'm sure there's some more files you need to apt_get to keep your l33t system upto date.
Chris
But if by quality you mean a system with new, hot and unstested packages and late security fixes, by all means RedHat must be of much higher quality
Do you or your employer (assuming you actually work), actually use Debian for mission critical systems? As I said in another post, how many companies do you know of who trust Debian as there Linux distribution of choice, (and no, a site like Slashdot is not a representative example)? The only corporate settings where I have heard rumour of Debian being used, is where it's been slipped in as a file server on the quiet.
All the Linux using companies I have worked at have followed a similar path in selecting their distribution:
Based on those criteria, the choice (made by programmers, not managers) has always been RedHat unless option one applies. And no, as a contractor I didn't have any input on those decisions.
Chris
I know you can still do everything by the command line but how often people actualy do that as oposed to using the fast and dirty gui
Many of us running RedHat Linux on a server with only console access. All the non-developmental servers I use or have used, had the X packages and anything related to them removed.
I dont think anyone will disagree with the fact that RPM has the worst dependincies detection ever
If that's your main technical criticism of RedHat's distribution, then you might want to check out a BSD. They have excellent package dependency detection, and a better text installer to boot. OK, the OpenBSD installer isn't too hot when it comes to partitioning, but that and the shitty attitude of certain OpenBSD coders is why I run NetBSD as my first choice of OS.
I think RH and Mandrake are great for the linux newbie or the linux geek
And how many companies do you know that are running Debian as their Linux distribution of choice? I understand that Slashdot are, but they are a geek (god, I hate that word) novelty. All the businesses I have worked for in the last five or six years choose either RedHat, SuSE or a BSD.
Chris
Does the graphical frontend actually offer any significant additions over the text one?
Consistency for starters. There is no consistency in the way that the pieces of the current Debian text installer work. And that "thing" to select various packages is the worst console application I have ever seen - unintuitive, slow and a nightmare to navigate.
Chris
The recent reviews of Debian (or more pertinently the installer), highlighted genuine problems. I sat there and read the reviews thinking, "why don't they just add the Progeny installer as an extra option for i386". Having tried (and failed) to install Debian Woody on a Sparc several times, I went back to RedHat Linux and NetBSD. NetBSD is an example of how a text installer should work, and RedHat is an example of a GPL Linux distro that is of much higher quality than Debian.
Now the Debian zealots will come out of the woodwork pointing out that Debian is "more free" than RedHat. Bullshit unless your confusing standard RedHat Linux with Advanced Server. And all the Debian zealots ignore the fact that they are using it because they're mostly elitist f*ckwits who can't accept that RedHat pisses all over Debian in terms of quality and usability.
Flame away children.
Chris
The website linked to may require Windows Media Viewer, but if you had engaged your brain while reading the Slashdot article you would notice that it's not Lulu Tech Circuses website. It is in fact a TV station website *reporting* on Lulu Tech Circus.
Chris
I haven't seen any comments on this yet, but they may have been moderated below my threshold. However, it has got to be said that Owen Taylor has some seriously nasty facial hair. It's always interesting to see what people you know from faceless mediums like mailing lists and IRC actually look like, but I never imagained Owen Taylor would resemble a 70's porn star ...
Anyway, the interview was far more insightful than most I've seen of late. Quite surprising, as I'm generally unimpressed with the interviewers usual review output.
Chris
NetBSD/sparc has already supported SMP for ages.
Chris
I've been using both Linux and BSD for about 5 years.
If that's true, then you havent learnt much.
My own impression is that Linux developers try harder to make system work on various hardware
Your impression's very wrong. NetBSD runs on more architectures than Linux, and they are often more actively maintained (Sparc32 Linux is currently unmaintained, and VAX support seems to have stagnated). Where Linux does support devices that the BSDs don't, it is invariably flaky and untested. Whereas in the BSD world support for a device has to be well tested before inclusion in a stable release, the Linux philosophy is "release early" (and release buggy). This early release philosophy gives the illusion of greater hardware support, but it's not much use if you're after stable support.
Linux recognised USB and Firewire long before BSD did.
Bullshit. NetBSD did.
The other point is that Linux vendor did not ignore X11 configuration problems. Comparing to typical nightmare on BSD. For years all my BSD-addicted friends used BSD mostly as head-less servers.
Well then, your friends must be pretty clueless, as the configuration of X is identical under BSD and Linux. Not surprising seeing as it's the same software.
Portability is third reason to mention. I've tried Oracle, Java and win32 applications on Linux 3-5 years ago. But even today I doubt anyone will trust such applications running on BSD.
Portability? You're having a laugh arent you? Porting applications from commercial Unix to Linux is much more of a headache than porting to BSD. Firstly, there's no standard Linux distribution, and all the distributions have subtly different patched kernel versions. BSD in contrast, is closer to commercial Unix (unsurprisngly given it's heritage). Emulation of other Unix variants is excellent in the BSDs. I can run Linux software on my NetBSD box, and it usually runs faster.
Make conclusions yourself
Well my conclusion is that you're an ill informed twat.
Chris
I pointed out OpenBSD's concerns with OpenSSL on the NetBSD security list, and later summarised the points being made by Theo and others. The subsequent debate highlighted the fact that this is not a copyright issue, but a patent covenant one, and that Theo et. al. had misunderstood the purpose of Suns comments.
The hope is that the Sun code will be moved into a dedicated directory, as has been done with the problematic idea code. Then the code can be omitted when building binary packages for release. The source can be shipped with the offending code, and the end user can recompile OpenSSL to add it back in if the patent covenant is not an issue for them.
See the NetBSD mail archives at http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-security/2002/09 / for details.
Chris
If you're finding Mozilla sluggish, and haven't compiled it from source, then perhaps you want to look into rolling your own distribution. I've just built the latest nightly release on my NetBSD box, using "-O2 -march=i686" as the optimisation flags. It runs *very* snappily on my 1.2Ghz Celeron laptop, and is still usable on my 233Mhz desktop machine.
Chris
Yeah, and you might want to check out "A Child And His Lawnmower" by the Dead Kennedys. Suffice to say it's about a redneck shooting his misbehaving lawnmower ...
Some clown in Sacramento was dragged into court
He shot his lawnmower
It disobeyed, it wouldn't start
Might makes right, it's the American way
They fined him $60 and sent him on his way
You know, some people don't take no sh*t
Maybe if they did they'd have half a brain left
Chris
NetBSD (http://www.netbsd.org/) runs like a dream on older hardware - I've had it running on an 8Mb 486DX2/66, and once the kernel was recompiled (on a nippier machine I might add), it worked quite smoothly.
SIAG Office (http://www.siag.nu/) relies on the Athena libraries - but the much more attractive NeXTstep themed ones rather than the ugly originals. NeXTaw is maintained by the SIAG Office author, so it's not going to suffer the same bitrot as other Athena based toolkits. This means none of the overhead associated with Abiword or Staroffice and their considerable dependencies - all in all, it's a neat software package.
Chris