Searching network volumes and client/server is not the same. It just means that every computer has to index network volumes for its self, while client/server is just running query and getting result
Never argued how integrated it is, it probably is very well, that's one of the features of closed software. But it is still not client/server, which it makes desktop and as such much simpler piece of code.
M$ is making WinFS client/server capable, which is a lot bigger plan.
Reindexing constantly is not needed, that is why kernel hooks for watching file system serve. You just hook on notifications and process when and where changes occur. Second whing you need is that filetype is supported and provides possibility to describe it self.
Having everything working on client/server is a completely different case. You have to take case of privileges, network locations and client cooperation. If you do something on neighbours computer and store there?
Windows, mice, folders, desktop metaphor in 1983 with the Lisa and 1984 with the Macintosh -> Windows 1.0 in 1985
And in real world Xerox Alto 1972 http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/alto .html
Networking, introduced in 1990 with AppleTalk and AppleShare in System 7 -> Windows for Workgroups and Windows 3.11 in 1992
Again in the real world ARPANET 1969
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Inte rn et
Quicktime, also introduced in 1990 with System 7 -> Video for Windows/AVI in Windows 3.1/3.11 in 1992
Movie player? Or actual API and its usage?
Desktop publishing, Word, and WYSIWYG came out for Mac in 1985 -> Windows version in 1989
That would be Aldus with Pagemaker in 1980 http://desktoppub.about.com/od/history/
btw. Sillicon had dtp software long before Apple did, it just wasn't affordable
Color support, which allowed for Photoshop and other image programs, in 1988 with System 6 (Photoshop came out in 1990) -> Windows 3.0 in 1990 (And Photoshop in 1992)
Won't argue here
Re:Burnable folders (while in the real world)
on
Tiger's 200 New Features
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It is called "Burn on the fly", and please don't make rocket science out of this. It was year 1995 when most of the burning software already contained this feature
Actualy it never happened. M$ schedules are moved back and forth with their progress on.Net and WinFS (which depends on.Net progress). WinFS has nowhere near such little goals as Spotlight (remember Spotlight is desktop utility, while M$ is trying to make WinFS client/server capable).
I'm neither WinFanBoy nor MacFanBoy (I hate both). Own G5 and G4. Own windows too. But avoid them if only possible.
Features like WinFS are being on M$ table much longer then from 10.3 to 10.4. It's Apple who is copying not M$.
M$ has promised this feature back in 2002 (if we forget Cairo failure). Oulook can print calendars and compose HTML mail. And spotlight is the only real change in Tiger. Safari RSS? I still think it is better to keep RSS separated from browser. Tried this feature in Tiger preview and it has't converted me. I still use liferea on linux and freereader (haven't tried thunderbirds feature of this) on windows (every time once a month that I boot in Windows).
Now name another, that is not present in XP (or can be added with completely free software). Almost everything there is a free replacement. So who is copying?
God, I can't believe I was commenting favorable to M$??? Well, that's a first one for me:)
These (webshop example) cannot be patented under European patent law. Or at least they could all be argued in court (and it wouldn't be a lenghty procedure). I know that alomost nobody (writing open source) can afford to go to court.
Main problem in my opinion is the order of the patent arguing. Most of the patents will be like your webshop example. In corect world first topic on court schedule would be patent holder defending his patent and defending why his invention should be treated as invention and not as common protocol or physical interaction, and accused presenting evidence, why his claim is not valid. This order would probably make much better world of patented computer-inventions and stop many court cases even before opening. Or even stupid patents like those in webshop to be applied.
P1..... In order to be patentable, a computer-implemented invetion must be new, susceptible to industrial application and must involve inventive step. In order to involve an inventive step, a computer-implemented invention must make a technical contribution to the state of the art. If the contribution to the state of the art relates solely to unpatentable matter, there can be no patentable invention irrespective of how the matter is presented in claims
Basically, you could argue wheter patent is technically adequate or not.
P2. In accordance with the European Patent convention, acomputer program as such cannot constitute a patentable invention. Inventions involving computer programs, wheter ex[ressed as source code,..... which implement mathematical or other methods and do not produce any technical effects beyond the normal physical interactions between a program and the computer, network or other programmable apparatus in which it is run will not be patentable
All those in your web shop are common physical interactions, and as such you could argue patent validity
Second, network interaction excluded means that protocol cannot be patented. Protocol is just a conversation between two or more computers in network, that talk their specific language for specific task. And as such, partial file transfer is nothing more than file transer. And since streaming (beside the point that client is showing live results) is nothing more than file transfer, streaming would be excluded here. Protocol being specific for specific task, well nothing more than use of smoe special words and parameters.
P3. Summary: Under some strict conditions program could be patentable
Yeah, whatever
P4. The directive should be without prejudice to the application of Articles 81 and 82 of the Treaty, in particular where a dominant supplier refuses to allow the use of a patented technique which is needed for the sole purpose of ensuring conversion of the convention used in two different computer systems or networks so as to allow communication and exchange data between them
And since M$ (remember - dominant supplier here means apple for randezvous, and such) is the dominant supplier, I could hardly see this as stoping samba or exchange connectors.
P5. Commision will monitor impact "yadda, yadda, yadda" on the the open/source community and on electronic commerce
Yeah, right. Most of this will probably still end up in court long before there is any reaction from them.
And second... I still believe that some things are patentable, just as long as they are inventions and not some usage helpers, button layouts, network protocols.
If you look at patents that IBM proclaimed as free. Some of them are inventions. About 50-70 of them. Others are just new nicer implementations of typical interaction.
Every year number of users grows for more than double.
I call that year of Linux. "Year of linux" term is not defined by M$ still being biggest (or how big share it has), but with increase number of linux users and servers (and in last years with profit that companies make with linux).
p.s. if new users would keep comming with this rate, people would have to increase their sex activity just to provide new linux users in about 20 years.
No. Not even close. Having running few different virtual systems can make your system much more secure. The only problem was that running virtual servers was real CPU hog. That's why Xen uses paravirtual approach. Difference between virtual and paravirtual is that virtual is translating operations, while paravirtual enables direct access. One problem in paravirtual access is that OS running in it must be modified (so,... no Windows and no OSX here)
You can solve all problems which were before with chroot and more. Run another OS in Xen and mail server on it. Imagine that you got hacked. Hacker is still a long way from the same effect as if it would be if service was running in the same OS instance. Basically you can achieve DMZ on one machine. And if you set internal firewalls right you hit jackpot as admin. And here comes the beauty of paravirtual approach. You don't suffer much if you run system inside system.
Typical user doesn't need few systems running, I agree. Server should.
btw. Anybody asking questions like you would probably think that SELinux is obscure too. Why having system file flags, ACLs and SELinux templates (why 3 but 1 sole purpose of it? Well, maybe because they aren't serving the same purpose).
me draw number, phone... Error me draw number again, phone... Error me draw number again, this time carefully, phone... Calls wrong number me draw "FUCK YOU" in the air, phone calls 911 and reports abuse
Funny thing is that IBM holds more hardware than software patents. Those would be unusable to OSS.
Again, before you bash, at least look at the list. I think it's impressive enough. Covering very large part of technologies needed in OS from desktop to mainframe. Especially impressive could be patents for multiprocessor handling and schedulers. That patent alone is worth a lot if SCO would try to take some action.
Second case would be Adobe and their alpha channel patent. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like IBM patented doublebuffering, clipping and a lot of 3D routines. Almost everything that current desktop needs to be drawn as it should be. Unfortunatelly, alpha channel is not between them, but I doubt that Apple would play against IBM
I'm not bashing Windows. They just don't work as they should.
My rule is: There are three major computer systems now. One that is not there, - Linux One that looks and works like crap, - Windows and one that never works (even though they say Just Works) - OSX
Personally I preffer Linux because it is at least moving in the right direction. Windows do work and look like crap, but at least they do its job as they should. OSX is a personal hatred of mine, slow and everything is always breaking. From update to update, it always surprises you with new bugs.
Is any of those usable for grandma? No. By idea OSX is the nearest, but implementation is completely different story.
Because I actually replied and tried to address everything, I have too much time? Whatever.
No, all the things you described you have to do with your Windows. Download this, install this. Download this, install this....
sarcasm: I can imagine every decent grandma does that between making breakfast. another sarcasm: It's a DVD for me 1.5 minute of clicking if I don't wan't to select defaults (I always partition my disks as I wish and select packages I want), wait 10 more and installed.
Ahah! It doesn't work how you personally want it, so of course it must be total crap! Genius!
(snip - my comment)...
Actually, I do. And I also know how it looks with a network of about 2000 or so computers and printers. If you know where you're looking, and the admins don't have a completely nonsensical naming scheme, it's actually not too hard to find things.
If the admins/users have named all the devices with random arbitrary names...Well, who's fault is that?
Not talking about computers. Talking about share points that are found. And as such you soon get zillion example:"C on xxx" or "shared on YYYY" and such. Yeah I can imagine this admin:)
no HIG whatsoever
Yes, but OS without HIG is harder to comprehend for not techie people. Every keyboard shortcut different from software to software. Non-standard toolbar icons. Sometimes software doesn't even support basic theme (aka. draws non-standard shaped buttons, uses non-theme colors...)
What makes no sense to you makes perfect sense to someone else.
Yeah, grandma knows that her burning software is under Programs - Ahead - Nero
virus, spyware
Yeah, that's why Outlook and IE are unadvised as unsecure:) Because MS counts that everybody will install FF and TB. Grandma doesn;;t know what security hole is.
Mmmhmm. Have any actual benchmarks for that, or are you just spouting your personal opinion like fact again?
You don't need them. First of the reasons why this happens is registry. More you install more registry gets stuffed. And bigger registry gets, longer searches are taking to find keys. Uninstall doesn't delete keys mostly. Sometimes they don't delete even files. Remember no Cleansweep. It's grandma we're talking. You could say that grandma wouldn't install anything. Wrong. Explorer does that for her while she's browsing internet.
Why should there be a simple way to do that? If you're advanced and/or knowledgable enough to want all the notifications turned off, then you can do it the slightly harder way. Try here, tip #012. Only takes adding one value on one key in the registry.
I know that, I know! I guess you're not talking about grandma anymore. Grandma won't edit registry or play with TweakUI.
No doubt you think there's something horribly wrong with the fact that I (or other people) don't use completely free software.
???? Here you got something wrong. I don't have anything against proprietary software. Hell I've got for over $20000 of software in my own company
REMEBER! WE TALK ABOUT GRANDMA and basic system usability for her
p.s. Once any system is tweaked for user, everything gets simpler. Hell I set up RH7.2 for my father and he had no problems. Was RH7.2 user friendly??? No way. Why he had no problem? Because I made sure everything is as it should be.
Now he's got Ubuntu. And everything just works, I don't think that I installed him anything but java for browser and gstreamer plugins (that means one apt-get install...., or if you preffer selecting it in synaptic). Everything else is base Ubuntu install (you can't choose anything but setup, write who you are and set internet connection). Is ubuntu now defined as usable? Not yet. It will when I won't need to install computer for my father. Everything should just work. (not like OSX, that one is even worster than Windows, and before you reply. I have two OSX macs. And I have to use them on regular base)
Slashdot Mirror
Apple already had fast client/server search capability in 1999, with Mac OS 8.5
Yeah, and it was the first extension turned off. It was running up to 4 hours until canceled. No live results.
How do you compare this with WinFS, Spotlight, Beagle? It is completely different topic, accidentaly having the "SEARCH" word in common
Searching network volumes and client/server is not the same. It just means that every computer has to index network volumes for its self, while client/server is just running query and getting result
Never argued how integrated it is, it probably is very well, that's one of the features of closed software. But it is still not client/server, which it makes desktop and as such much simpler piece of code.
M$ is making WinFS client/server capable, which is a lot bigger plan.
Reindexing constantly is not needed, that is why kernel hooks for watching file system serve. You just hook on notifications and process when and where changes occur.
Second whing you need is that filetype is supported and provides possibility to describe it self.
Having everything working on client/server is a completely different case. You have to take case of privileges, network locations and client cooperation. If you do something on neighbours computer and store there?
Windows, mice, folders, desktop metaphor in 1983 with the Lisa and 1984 with the Macintosh -> Windows 1.0 in 1985
o .html
e rn et
And in real world Xerox Alto 1972
http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/alt
Networking, introduced in 1990 with AppleTalk and AppleShare in System 7 -> Windows for Workgroups and Windows 3.11 in 1992
Again in the real world ARPANET 1969
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Int
Quicktime, also introduced in 1990 with System 7 -> Video for Windows/AVI in Windows 3.1/3.11 in 1992
Movie player? Or actual API and its usage?
Desktop publishing, Word, and WYSIWYG came out for Mac in 1985 -> Windows version in 1989
That would be Aldus with Pagemaker in 1980
http://desktoppub.about.com/od/history/
btw. Sillicon had dtp software long before Apple did, it just wasn't affordable
Color support, which allowed for Photoshop and other image programs, in 1988 with System 6 (Photoshop came out in 1990) -> Windows 3.0 in 1990 (And Photoshop in 1992)
Won't argue here
It is called "Burn on the fly", and please don't make rocket science out of this. It was year 1995 when most of the burning software already contained this feature
Coincidence?
.Net and WinFS (which depends on .Net progress). WinFS has nowhere near such little goals as Spotlight (remember Spotlight is desktop utility, while M$ is trying to make WinFS client/server capable).
Actualy it never happened. M$ schedules are moved back and forth with their progress on
I'm neither WinFanBoy nor MacFanBoy (I hate both). Own G5 and G4. Own windows too. But avoid them if only possible.
Features like WinFS are being on M$ table much longer then from 10.3 to 10.4. It's Apple who is copying not M$.
M$ has promised this feature back in 2002 (if we forget Cairo failure). Oulook can print calendars and compose HTML mail. And spotlight is the only real change in Tiger. Safari RSS? I still think it is better to keep RSS separated from browser. Tried this feature in Tiger preview and it has't converted me. I still use liferea on linux and freereader (haven't tried thunderbirds feature of this) on windows (every time once a month that I boot in Windows).
Now name another, that is not present in XP (or can be added with completely free software). Almost everything there is a free replacement. So who is copying?
God, I can't believe I was commenting favorable to M$??? Well, that's a first one for me:)
Yep, I agree. Just as I agreed with Thurrots review of Tiger,
It's basically 4 new features, others are just a small case improvements, that probably don't deserve being called feature.
1/3 of them contains Spotlight (addresses, fonts.... being able to be searched in spotlight? This is one feature not a lot of them).
Being able to compose HTML mail???
And after all MacFan bashing over gimp??? GIMP Printer Configuration
Birthday Calendar ??? New feature????
Calendar Printing ??? C'mon it's year 2005. Now every calendar software should be able to print
I wouldn't consider working without trouble very little.
... worth of shit. It crashed with half network cards, didn't even work with some. That's client for netware I talk about.
I still have some two clients that don't want to migrate of 386 novell server. Too happy, not too cheap
Don't know anyone satisfied with NT though
The Client for MS Windows was based on Netware's client technology.
And its worth was,
That would be 1001 then (if I take to acount PR talk)
It is not a feature to be, it is a quality test of performance while in development. More the test is intensive, the better it is
All benchmarks are 32-bit. Turion is 64-bit.
I wonder how it will perform with 64-bit linux. Well, I'm going to see when some brand name shows up with Turion in his higher class.
First, I'm against patents (or at least 99%).
.... In order to be patentable, a computer-implemented invetion must be new, susceptible to industrial application and must involve inventive step. In order to involve an inventive step, a computer-implemented invention must make a technical contribution to the state of the art. If the contribution to the state of the art relates solely to unpatentable matter, there can be no patentable invention irrespective of how the matter is presented in claims
These (webshop example) cannot be patented under European patent law. Or at least they could all be argued in court (and it wouldn't be a lenghty procedure). I know that alomost nobody (writing open source) can afford to go to court.
Main problem in my opinion is the order of the patent arguing. Most of the patents will be like your webshop example. In corect world first topic on court schedule would be patent holder defending his patent and defending why his invention should be treated as invention and not as common protocol or physical interaction, and accused presenting evidence, why his claim is not valid.
This order would probably make much better world of patented computer-inventions and stop many court cases even before opening. Or even stupid patents like those in webshop to be applied.
P1.
Basically, you could argue wheter patent is technically adequate or not.
P2. In accordance with the European Patent convention, acomputer program as such cannot constitute a patentable invention. Inventions involving computer programs, wheter ex[ressed as source code,..... which implement mathematical or other methods and do not produce any technical effects beyond the normal physical interactions between a program and the computer, network or other programmable apparatus in which it is run will not be patentable
All those in your web shop are common physical interactions, and as such you could argue patent validity
Second, network interaction excluded means that protocol cannot be patented. Protocol is just a conversation between two or more computers in network, that talk their specific language for specific task. And as such, partial file transfer is nothing more than file transer. And since streaming (beside the point that client is showing live results) is nothing more than file transfer, streaming would be excluded here.
Protocol being specific for specific task, well nothing more than use of smoe special words and parameters.
P3. Summary: Under some strict conditions program could be patentable
Yeah, whatever
P4. The directive should be without prejudice to the application of Articles 81 and 82 of the Treaty, in particular where a dominant supplier refuses to allow the use of a patented technique which is needed for the sole purpose of ensuring conversion of the convention used in two different computer systems or networks so as to allow communication and exchange data between them
And since M$ (remember - dominant supplier here means apple for randezvous, and such) is the dominant supplier, I could hardly see this as stoping samba or exchange connectors.
P5. Commision will monitor impact "yadda, yadda, yadda" on the the open/source community and on electronic commerce
Yeah, right. Most of this will probably still end up in court long before there is any reaction from them.
And second... I still believe that some things are patentable, just as long as they are inventions and not some usage helpers, button layouts, network protocols.
If you look at patents that IBM proclaimed as free. Some of them are inventions. About 50-70 of them. Others are just new nicer implementations of typical interaction.
Acoording to the linux counter, there are currently some 18 million world wide linux users
And they were 18 million 3 years before too. Estimate counter number on linuxcounter.org never changes, just in case you haven't noticed:)
Otherwise, yeah. Just as I said, people will have to have sex more, just to supply masses that adopt linux
Every year number of users grows for more than double.
I call that year of Linux. "Year of linux" term is not defined by M$ still being biggest (or how big share it has), but with increase number of linux users and servers (and in last years with profit that companies make with linux).
p.s. if new users would keep comming with this rate, people would have to increase their sex activity just to provide new linux users in about 20 years.
And that's not obscure?
No. Not even close. Having running few different virtual systems can make your system much more secure. The only problem was that running virtual servers was real CPU hog. That's why Xen uses paravirtual approach. Difference between virtual and paravirtual is that virtual is translating operations, while paravirtual enables direct access. One problem in paravirtual access is that OS running in it must be modified (so,... no Windows and no OSX here)
You can solve all problems which were before with chroot and more. Run another OS in Xen and mail server on it. Imagine that you got hacked. Hacker is still a long way from the same effect as if it would be if service was running in the same OS instance. Basically you can achieve DMZ on one machine. And if you set internal firewalls right you hit jackpot as admin. And here comes the beauty of paravirtual approach. You don't suffer much if you run system inside system.
Typical user doesn't need few systems running, I agree. Server should.
btw. Anybody asking questions like you would probably think that SELinux is obscure too. Why having system file flags, ACLs and SELinux templates (why 3 but 1 sole purpose of it? Well, maybe because they aren't serving the same purpose).
Huhh,???? Guess I wasn't the only one that noticed:)
God damit rss changed order, worng story:)
I can imagine:)
me draw number, phone... Error
me draw number again, phone... Error
me draw number again, this time carefully, phone... Calls wrong number
me draw "FUCK YOU" in the air, phone calls 911 and reports abuse
Funny thing is that IBM holds more hardware than software patents. Those would be unusable to OSS.
Again, before you bash, at least look at the list. I think it's impressive enough. Covering very large part of technologies needed in OS from desktop to mainframe. Especially impressive could be patents for multiprocessor handling and schedulers. That patent alone is worth a lot if SCO would try to take some action.
Second case would be Adobe and their alpha channel patent. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like IBM patented doublebuffering, clipping and a lot of 3D routines. Almost everything that current desktop needs to be drawn as it should be. Unfortunatelly, alpha channel is not between them, but I doubt that Apple would play against IBM
su, sudo, gdm, kdm, evidence????
Sorry, just trying to be funny:)
~/.mozilla or ~/.firefox on linux
Last time you checked it was TB 0.5:) (until then mail was stored under thunderbird program directory)
Now everything is stored under Documents and Settings/user/Application Data/thunderbird
or something like that.
p.s. to clear up some things.
I'm not bashing Windows. They just don't work as they should.
My rule is:
There are three major computer systems now.
One that is not there, - Linux
One that looks and works like crap, - Windows
and one that never works (even though they say Just Works) - OSX
Personally I preffer Linux because it is at least moving in the right direction.
Windows do work and look like crap, but at least they do its job as they should.
OSX is a personal hatred of mine, slow and everything is always breaking. From update to update, it always surprises you with new bugs.
Is any of those usable for grandma? No. By idea OSX is the nearest, but implementation is completely different story.
Because I actually replied and tried to address everything, I have too much time? Whatever.
...., or if you preffer selecting it in synaptic). Everything else is base Ubuntu install (you can't choose anything but setup, write who you are and set internet connection). Is ubuntu now defined as usable? Not yet. It will when I won't need to install computer for my father. Everything should just work. (not like OSX, that one is even worster than Windows, and before you reply. I have two OSX macs. And I have to use them on regular base)
No, all the things you described you have to do with your Windows. Download this, install this. Download this, install this....
sarcasm: I can imagine every decent grandma does that between making breakfast.
another sarcasm: It's a DVD for me 1.5 minute of clicking if I don't wan't to select defaults (I always partition my disks as I wish and select packages I want), wait 10 more and installed.
Ahah! It doesn't work how you personally want it, so of course it must be total crap! Genius!
(snip - my comment)...
Actually, I do. And I also know how it looks with a network of about 2000 or so computers and printers. If you know where you're looking, and the admins don't have a completely nonsensical naming scheme, it's actually not too hard to find things.
If the admins/users have named all the devices with random arbitrary names...Well, who's fault is that?
Not talking about computers. Talking about share points that are found. And as such you soon get zillion example:"C on xxx" or "shared on YYYY" and such. Yeah I can imagine this admin:)
no HIG whatsoever
Yes, but OS without HIG is harder to comprehend for not techie people. Every keyboard shortcut different from software to software. Non-standard toolbar icons. Sometimes software doesn't even support basic theme (aka. draws non-standard shaped buttons, uses non-theme colors...)
What makes no sense to you makes perfect sense to someone else.
Yeah, grandma knows that her burning software is under Programs - Ahead - Nero
virus, spyware
Yeah, that's why Outlook and IE are unadvised as unsecure:) Because MS counts that everybody will install FF and TB. Grandma doesn;;t know what security hole is.
Mmmhmm. Have any actual benchmarks for that, or are you just spouting your personal opinion like fact again?
You don't need them. First of the reasons why this happens is registry. More you install more registry gets stuffed. And bigger registry gets, longer searches are taking to find keys. Uninstall doesn't delete keys mostly. Sometimes they don't delete even files. Remember no Cleansweep. It's grandma we're talking. You could say that grandma wouldn't install anything. Wrong. Explorer does that for her while she's browsing internet.
Why should there be a simple way to do that? If you're advanced and/or knowledgable enough to want all the notifications turned off, then you can do it the slightly harder way. Try here, tip #012. Only takes adding one value on one key in the registry.
I know that, I know! I guess you're not talking about grandma anymore. Grandma won't edit registry or play with TweakUI.
No doubt you think there's something horribly wrong with the fact that I (or other people) don't use completely free software.
???? Here you got something wrong. I don't have anything against proprietary software. Hell I've got for over $20000 of software in my own company
REMEBER! WE TALK ABOUT GRANDMA and basic system usability for her
p.s. Once any system is tweaked for user, everything gets simpler. Hell I set up RH7.2 for my father and he had no problems. Was RH7.2 user friendly??? No way. Why he had no problem? Because I made sure everything is as it should be.
Now he's got Ubuntu. And everything just works, I don't think that I installed him anything but java for browser and gstreamer plugins (that means one apt-get install
...and it's near release.
Close for how many years now? It almost competes with Duke Nukem Forever in that department and MS object file system.
Well, some things just can't help them self, and so they become eternal