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French Response to Google is Microsoft
efp writes "Mark Liberman posted over in the Language Log that, in considering alternatives to Google's library initiative in Europe, French President Jacques Chirac would consider a partnership with Microsoft 'since he has so many views in common with its president, Bill Gates'. This comes out of talks between the French president, the head of the French National Library and the Minister of Culture, in in part 'building an alter ego to the American project, before thinking of an eventual collaboration with Google, so as not to negotiate from a position of weakness' as they plan to digitize their cultural resources."
Just see the sig.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Karma be damned. France surrendering to what appears to be a superior power? Where have I seen this before...
They are both filthy stinkin rich, hate google, and dream of a new world order?
I have this really funny quote that I like to put here. Unfortunately, there's this really annoying thing called a char
Has found his new dark lord of the Sith...
France is evil. Just as we suspected...
J'utilize Linux
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
we never liked them anyway :)
Vive la difference!
If it's anything like my Outlook PST file, it will be able to hold about 1000 documents, then not work as well.
Sounds fun!
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
...a "freedom engine"? ;)
DBA? Software Engineer? My company is hiring! Click
I see some kind of retaliation or what I'd call divide & rule, by the French government. "If you do not cooperate, (read `pay for content') I will go to your rival(s)." M$ used this against IBM on a limited level in the 80s and they succeeded to some extent.
Microsoft would never surrendur!
-Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
for all the French+Bill Gates jokes
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
It seems to me that it is unlikely that the French government will align themselves with such a symbol of US cultural imperialism. Therefore, I suspect that the implied use of MS as a bargaining chip with google is correct.
Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
I have nothing against the French but what's next? France decides SCO's case has merit, claims jurisdiction? I'm just confused. It just seems odd that the country that takes issue with Google's helpful, automated services because they occasionally violate copyright is considering working with Microsoft, the king of anti-trust! No wonder the French people are so jaded.
ye shall reap what ye sow.
If the French want to digitally preserve their cultural treasures with MS, more power to 'em.
The rest of the world knows how to make wine, and that's about all we need of it.
When negotiating with Microsoft, is there anyone who can NOT negotiate from a position of weakness?
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Perhaps the saddest part about France going to Microsoft for this project is that whatever data is produced is more likely to be locked into some proprietary format. That could be particularly unfortunate, since these cultural resources really belong to all the people of France and should therefore be made as accessible as possible.
best. department. evar.
is that the french are very nationalist and I would of thought they would of done something with a European or at least a French software outfit. I thought they were scared of globalisation and were worried about their identity being lost on the world stage. So to cure this fear they choose MS.
Jonathanjk.com
It is a well known fact that European governments prefer to support the under-dog: "Go Bill, go Bill, go!"
Now the French can leverage the power of DRM to keep their military failures in the last century a secret!
We can't let France do that can we? No more Windows XP, from now on it will be known as FREEDOM XP.
The plan is coming together, just a tad slower then they had hoped.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Moi, j'aime bien nos maitres francais des biblioteque borg.
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
What's wrong with the french?
French good deeds this year: 2French bad deeds this year: 5
Le sigh . . . .
As Seen On TV's? Come back!!!
I for one welcome our new amphibious Borg overlords.
What the hell are you trying to say? Tits on a Nun are great for rubbing your dick on! Jesus...
did we FINALLY have a justified reason to hate the French?
Sure looks likes it to me!
second story
support of terrorists
uh, huh? disagree with bomb-mad bush and you're a terrorist?
Support of terrorism?
How about the US funding the IRA to the tune of $100 million dollars a year - all used to plant car-bombs in shopping centers or to run "taxi-driver murder" campaigns.
You know fuck-all.
Why partner with an American company? The technology to search a vast archive is not
diffult to engineer. Certainly the French
government should spend the money at home.
Given their insignificance since surrendering, this is obviously a ploy to maximize awareness of France on 2 of the busiest sites on the internet -
Wow, it seems you don't need to fire a shot now to get the French to surrender to somebody hell bent on taking over the world!
Alas gallinaceas de urbe bovis volo
1760s: The indians can be relied upon to help drive the british from america
1803: Let's sell the Louisiana Territories
1934: Let's overlook Germany's military buildup
While you are at it, could I buy the Efal Tower and Notre Dame, Mr. Chirac? Shame on you. And a shame on your nation.
Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own
It's funny how a post like this, which is full of crap gets a socre of 2, and the two intelligent replies I read got a whopping 0.
Way to go, Slashdoters, you're looking like a bunch of racist rednecks.
So Microsoft has just bought France to go along with their acquisition of evil?
Sounds like a matched set to me.
No, the terrorists probably just get a bigger rush from destroying a powerful country.
Think about it. It happens everywhere. Nobody wants to see the little guy lose. In american courts, everybody is happy when a big corp. loses a case, since everyone thinks that the "big corporations" are doing evil by impressing their will on the general populace.
The same thing happens with America. The terrorists see some kind of injustice in the fact that we live (for the most part) richly, and they have to scrounge out a living. They are just jealous of the power and affluence we have. That's why France isn't getting bombed....
I have this really funny quote that I like to put here. Unfortunately, there's this really annoying thing called a char
soooo many accent marks in that article
I do it because I am French... I am a bad mother fucker, no?
We get attacked by terrorists because we support Israel and interfere with the Middle East. I don't think Osama gives a rat's ass that we bash Frenchies.
Given their their insignificance since surrenduring surrendered, this is obviously a ploy to maximize awareness of France through 2 of the busiest sites on the internet -
(The last time they tried something like this, it was the Jerry Lewis gambit).
Something that would make sense would be cooperating with a big canadian software company, since Canadians speak french too.
The rest has been said by others, I've nothing to add.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
If anyone needed proof that France is evil, here it is.
--- 11 meters/second, or 24 miles per hour - the airspeed velocity of an unladen European swallow. Really.
The french decide Google's perceived hegemony in electronic document archiving is a problem.
"What company could stand against Google? I know, I will for Microsoft's help!!"
The french now have 2 problems.
As well as irresponsibility and mismangement and habit of poking nose everywhere.
Hmm. I read your gibberish post, and then examined the opening statement of your last post...
I am a high school history teacher...
I'd be fuckin' scared/annoyed/upset if you taught my children.
You're so stupid, it's almost funny
French President Jacques Chirac would consider a partnership with Microsoft 'since he has so many views in common with its president, Bill Gates'.
Chirac siding with an American president. Now I've seen it all!
Ah, so this is what Americans think. That you are being attacked by evil persons because you are living a good life and they are jealous. Now even I want to bomb you.
Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong again. The pleasure of France-bashing is not restricted to Americans. Everyone enjoys bashing the French, except, well... the French.
Well, who could blame a terrorist freeing us of people like you?
Reminds me of another domestic bargaining chip.
Manager: "Well, our techies say we could move some of our stuff over to linux."
MS: "How about some fat discounts?"
You're right, this is negotiation and its part of businesss as well as politics.
The article is essentially some non-denials from Chirac's advisors. Not exactly a done deal.
Come on! We're Americans! Do you think we *care* what everyone else thinks?
All joking aside, regardless of my feelings towards the French, which are pretty close to neutral, this does seem contrary to their nationlistic zeal to keep France French. I (like other posters) assumed that the government would come up with its own solution. It seems absurd that France would team up with that oh so American company Microsoft to thwart that other oh so American company Google.
P.S. The US was attacked by terrorists because of numerous things, but name calling is not one of them.
P.P.S. The rest of the world bashes the US. Don't you think we get tired of that?
It started at 2. The other post presumably started at 0. Starting score depends on karma of user, with anonymous cowards posts having a starting score of 0.
I didn't say "because of this". I said "because of things like this".
Come'on, my children they need wine!
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Which two intelligent replies would those be? :-P
P.S. Don't feed the trolls.
i believe its more the senseless flaming/trolling of anyone not-american that disgusts, or to phrase it better - decimates the reputation of america with others.
Dont forget that your very own statue of liberty was MADE in france and given to america as a gift - a fact quickly glossed over by some.
Things like the "freedom fries" incident only serves to make america the laughing stock of the world for idiocy.
However, saying its because of this is the reason they get attacked by terrorists is quite a leap, a conclusion you fail to back up with fact and which has no substance or merit to its name.
The goal of terrorists is to cause fear in their target. Who the target is doesnt matter as much as the power they gain - through fear - over them.
If you had bothered to actually do any research you would have found proper reasons why america is on the whole despised in the middle east.
Remember this - Every reaction has a cause - a reason why the reaction has occurred. they dont just spontaneously happen for no reason. Once you understand the reasons why you can prevent the reaction from happening in the first place and this has only one outcome - everyone benefits from peace.
The ammount of xenophobic anti-French FUD we have had here on slashdot over the last few weeks leads me to think its a propaganda drive , seriously people Grow up and drop the racist jokes .
If I were Bill Gates, I'd be suing France for defamatory remarks against me. Who wants to be linked to France in the manner of "So many views in common."
On the other hand, if were Bill, I'd probably just declare war on France instead.
Mandrakesoft maker of the Mandrake Linux distro closes their offices in France and moves their headquarters to Brazil...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
And French-bashing is like supporting Israel how exactly?
And they wonder why.
.fr email addresses. That means these actions of France will not be politically supportable.
Jokes aside, a large part of opensource software devleopers have been french, just read the sourcecode and search for
In corporate circles, Bill Gates is admired for being a shrewd businessman, books on him are read by managers and enterpreneurs. However rank-and-file software developers know better and admire good product design.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
trolls unfortunately seem to be what most of the users available on slashdot now are. its a shame to see things going this way.
Sensible debate and discussion has been pushed aside for the trolls and the " me too " posts
so as not to negotiate from a position of weakness
So, they prefer to negotiate from a position of stupidity?
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
I refuse to post this anonymously: this place makes me sick!
The knee-jerk racism that a large proportion of Slashdotters display is very much tied in with the reason there's so much bad feeling against the United States out in the rest of the world...
ta mere
That will solve everything I *assure you!
* assurance not guaranteed
I think one of few the things that collen powel (or whatever) said that made sense was "American and France are like an old married couple." Or something along those lines.
Interestingly enough there is a site dedicated to those of us who truly admire france.
http://www.fuckfrance.com/
TT
Do you other people know that your America bashing disgusts all Americans? It's because of things like this that you get "freed" by us.
Does someone realize that Chirac never actually talked about partnering with Microsoft??? Not even close?
This post relates to ANOTHER post which translates ANOTHER article in a French newspaper which says that some UNNAMED assistant to Chirac when asked about the possibility of partnering with Microsoft answered "why not?" (which does not seem like a terrible answer..., there is no reason to dismiss anybody before the project is launched...).
They hate you because of your richness?
Do you know what your dollar is worth?
Do you know anything about economics?
HINT... CNN-MONEY doesn't count
Do you know anything about your debt?
Or how JAP/EU companies invest in attempts to strengthen the "mighty dollar" [sic] - just to lesson the effects when your collapse?
You're in for some surprises... and many more (nationalistic anti-france/germany/uk/(insert any country here)) wars...
First off, considering the recent ruling to ban "overt religious symbols" such as head scarves in schools, I think French-bashing is one of the things the US and Wahabiists have in common.
Secondly, if this isn't a reason to make fun of the government in Paris, I don't know what is.
> if it wasn't their support of terrorists, their ingratiating manner about our saving their asses twice, and the fact that they are as useless as tits on a nun, now i have another reason.
in the words of Simon Pegg:
what a prick.
I'm inclined to bash anybody who chooses MS over Free Software. The fact that they're French this time is only a coincidence.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Somebody's jealous....
For those who don't know about this:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html
Interesting little timeline showing major battles in French history (note the lack of victories).
Here's an easy to use example of how not to negotiate with Microsoft from a position of weakness:
MS: Hello, we would like to negotiate with you.
Me: Fuck off.
France and Microsoft,
Sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First came love,
Then came marriage,
Then came Satan.
France is only defending its culture as it sees fit.
It is no big deal because digitization of French language works will only hasten their translation to other languages.
I would welcome being able to read some of the specialized French language scientific journals in my native language.
I seem to remember some reports a while back about municipalities using Linux as a pawn to get better licensing agreements with MS. I think I will die laughing if the French are manipulating MS in the same way.
that Slashdot created a top level icon for french bashing subjects? This is long overdue. Bill has his own Slashdot icon, so sacrebleu why can't Jacques?
Say it frenchie! CHOWDA!
Don't Tread on Me
I've never met anyone from France that was rude and refused to try to speak English -- quite the opposite.
I've heard it argued that Americans go to Paris to "see France" -- and their opinions about the French is more or less similar to the common French opinion about people living in Paris... :-)
It has been a bit frustrating, when the "frogs" don't live up to the image I get from being steeped in the literature of English speaking (or mangling) cultures.
But I'll have to change opinion now. :-(
It do give a bit of perspective at the local politicians. There are worse examples.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Ah, your karma can't go any lower lest it goes through the earth and causes a china syndrome.
S
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Independance day : Lets help those good freedom loving people , they will thank us for many year to come for having helped them create there country. If Under Attack I am sure they will be more then happy to repay our good deeds and the first to come to our help since we helped them create there own country.
digitization of French language works will only hasten their translation to other languages
Sacre bleu!
Dont forget that your very own statue of liberty was MADE in france and given to america as a gift - a fact quickly glossed over by some. Don't forget that the only reason that the french have their own country is because the troops from OTHER COUNTRIES came in and saved their asses in WWII. (Hints: Omaha, Juno, Sword, Gold, ringing any bells?)
and you americans have infinitely reduced intelligence
A: I refuse to negotiate from a position of weakness. Therefore, I am going to pay to have my ass reamed by an electronic chinchilla.
B: Wait, I'm not so sure if that's such a good-
A: Silence pig! Just as I suspected, you're an imperialist in disguise!
B: I know someone who builds RC cars, he might be able to help with the Chinchilla.
A: Now that's more like it! Soon, we will conquer the world!
B:
Actually it's more basic than that. Osama wants to be "The" caliph of the Arabian Peninsula (he has openly stated so). However, he chose the U.S. as a target because he was under the notion (now discredited) that another military reaction my the U.S. in the Middle East would stir a popular uprising for "His" caliphate throughout the peninsula. He was hoping for a reaction similar to the Islamist power grab made in Iran.
Unfortunately for Osama it turned out that in general Arabs want economic prosperity more than they want him as their caliph...just like everyone else on the planet. Go figure...
It will be interesting to see how long Osama's campaign lasts after he bleeds to death all the students from the ideologically extreme madrassas on the peninsula.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
Damn the accusations of "anti-Americanism" the nationalist motivations for this type of comment, whether meant in humor or in seriousness, have no role in the technical focus of this site and only serve to encourage that destructive and pompous behavior in others regardless of qualifying comments.
No wonder most Americans have such a distorted view of world history if this is how an American high school history teacher thinks.
Seriously, in that one sentence you've demonstrated that you're so clueless about history that you're a danger in the classroom. I have to agree with the other poster that I'd be very worried if you were teaching my kids.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Wrong.
The Quaran instructs to "kill infidels" (non-Muslims)
Americans are infidels--properous infidels, who support other prosperous infidels.
Simple.
your France bashing really disgusts everyone else? It's because of things like this that you get attacked by "terrorists".
*Errmm* I'm terribly sorry-- no wait, that's not it... *errrmm* I regret to inform you that...
*hrmph* there are some areas that you are-
*bang*
Shut up, frenchie.
and the only reason americans have the country they have now is because other countries went out and colonised it for them
a hasty conclusion.
infidels does not mean "all non-muslims" to the majority of muslims - only to those who take it to extremes and even to them it covers those who dont agree with their view of islam.
All religion when taken to extremes is inherantly bad - yes including christianity.
No, this is what you've come to believe - either through propaganda, or through independent thought influenced by propaganda - in order to reconcile events with your own world view.
It pays to remember that, no matter how nice you are, no matter how good you are, no matter how altruistic you are, there are enough different people and opinions in this world that it's almost certain that somebody, somewhere, will think you're a cunt.
And face it - America's actions throughout the word for the last 50 years or much more have, on the whole, been less than nice, good, and altruistic.
(And yes, I used the word "propaganda" most deliberately. Just because you agree with a statement doesn't mean it isn't propaganda...)
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Now even I want to bomb you.
You go right ahead and try buddy. It's lunatics like you, who get all their info about american sentiments from some chat thread on slashdot, that I'd love to see locked away for awhile.
"The rest of the world bashes the US. "
Bashes , from who ? Do you think we *care* what you thinks?
What happened up to now is that: The president of France said that he'd rather have his own "very large digital library" rather than let google do it all on their own. What some of his "minder" said in answer of a journalists question was: yes Microsoft could be a partner. Most probably if the journalist would have asked if Oracle, or Mysql or any other organisation/person/BEM the answer would have been more or less the same.
The first issue being: Should the governement fund a public "digital library" The second issue being: How.
So I do find it very unfortunate that people make a lot of "advertizement" for a mediocre propriaitary software provider (as in you can write good things or bad things about me, but first of all write about me !), based on partial information.
For the record, I do like the google search engine, but I do think that any government should make the effort of putting as much as possible of cultural content as possible online.
Of course I do hope that when the project will start it will use Free and Open Source Software, but for the time being there is not even a call for tender
BTW the french national library is called "La tres grande bibliotheque"/"Bibliotheque François Mitterand", (socialist predecessor of Chirac) no wonder Jacques wants his own.
For those actually interested in what is there http://gallica.bnf.fr/
Oops, wrong web site ... still ... not not a bad idea, give it a shot.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
an unusually insightful and balanced post for slashdot. a breath of fresh air on a topic like this
*) Yeh, ban booze and that'll be the end of it!
*) Nah.. The Japs ain't got the technology to hit us from so far off
*) Killing half a million innocent Japs with our A-bombs will really make the world love us
*) We can beat have those vietnam gooks in a week or two, no trouble
*) Evolution is false, some bullshit "god" created everything in 7-days, no matter what the evidence.
to Microsoft.
a man, a plan, a canal, panama
i am a google lover and love every thing they do
but i think its good the msn search is advertising a lot out there and microsoft wants to make this deal with france
some competion is always good
no we'll bomb you first! nyah nyah!!
And the only reason other countries went and colonized it for them was because they wanted tobacco and maple syrup and apple pie and breakfast cereal and orangutangs and sanitation and medicine and aqueducts and peace...
I guess they did a bit of a buggered up job on that last one, but the rest are pretty hot commodoties even today. So just thank your lucky stars you've got the U.S.A., else you might never get to take it easy with a big glass of maple syrup while getting wanked off by your orangutang. Jim just told me it's spelled 'orangutan.' Well, not in the United States it's not. There, it's spelled 'tang,' and bugger anyone who thinks differently.
So the lumbering dinosaur that is the modern Microsoft may ally itself with a backwardly-minded socialist republic that is rapidly being taken over by foreign immigrants because their population refuses to breed.
France is part of the past. Their role in the future will likely can be compared to the foodcourt in the mall except with a heavier emphasis on Middle Eastern cuisine. They're a dying nation who gave up their chance to be relevant when they started stumbling down the misguided road of nationalist socialism. The only thing France is known for anymore is a ramshackle economy, industrial goods no one else in the world would ever buy and opposing US imperialist foreign policy while simultaneously attempting to imperialistically control as much of EU and UN policy as is absolutely possible (and pissing on their own colonies for decades before finally losing them all).
MS is falling behind technologically when compared to the rest of the industry. Their upcoming OS "update" is a hodgepodge collection of features and patches that should've made it into Windows 98. They're renowned for border-line illegal business tactics, shoddy engineering and the some of the most idiotic and backwards arguments ever heard in the debates over intellectual property rights.
This is like the T-Rex and the Stegosaurus agreeing to unite in an effort to stop the meteor. It's downright comical.
Further proof that all French people are idiots!
Judging all of the french using Chirac as a role model is an excellent idea.
As long as you allow me to judge all US citizens the same as I judge Bush Junior...
even so the french will look better of by a long way !
At least they won't look like a negative IQ war-criminal to be judged for a crime against humanity (we hope...) after failing to choke himself to death on a bretzel...
BTW, Anyone thought about giving that bretzel a medal ?
Funny, it's lunatics like you who get all their "they should be locked away (bombed) for a while" sentiments from Slashdot that i'd like to see locked away (bombed) for a while.
as well as state-sponsored monopolies and heavy handshaking between business and government. It is lamentable that for all their French pride they couldn't even find a single French company, however incomparable to Google, to mention.
It is no big deal because digitization of French language works will only hasten their translation to other languages.I can't wait to see the translation of La Planète des Singes by babelfish!
FACT The Koran does not say such a thing, implicitly or explicitly.
You quote the utterly warped views of a few insane "mullahs" to try and make some effect - and falsely generalise against 750m honest peaceful muslims.
The bible "states" that PI is (exactly) "3 and one quarter". This is the same type of utterly ridiculous out-of-context quotation that the US media so loving reports.
Ask yourslef WHY they report it, what's in it for them?
I seem to recall that Chirac was on very friendly terms with Saddam Hussein, so having "views in common" with Billy seems like par for the course to me.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
Posting as AC to preserve my karma from the hordes of French pussies who'd rather mod me down than step up and fight...
So basically what you're saying is you're too much of a pussy to risk your karma because you're afraid someone might mod you down in disagreement?
"Run to Bill, he'll protect us!" Now there's an idea. Jeeze, France, explain to us how your country has actually been relevant for 30 years...
They're not running to Bill, when asked if they'd select Google's competitor, Microsoft, the president's advisor said "Why not?" Not "Yeah, we've already signed a contract", just "Why not?" if any other company was mentioned it would have had the same response.
enough said
Jacques Chirac surrenders to Bill Gates. Grants Microsoft access to build France's technology. Whole country suffers from massive BSOD, and Script Kiddies now control the government of France. :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
He has to.
He married one, Melinda, her maiden name is French, of Microsoft Bob fame...
You should be just as worried that he's teaching other people's kids.
One could say we saved France three times as we have Indo-China(Vietnam) we could blame on them as well as WWI and WW2. There is that little favor they did for us in the Revolution so they can't all be bad but it is times like these when I think that maybe all the good Frenchmen were killed in the Nepoleonic wars and WW1/WW2. Most of the above comment is meant to be a joke but maybe you had better go read some history.
Why clone Unix when I can clone Windows instead. http://www.reactos.org
You know what else is ironic? How closely his intermediate goals match up with the intermediate goals of the neocons. What the US is doing is certainly destabilizing the status quo in the Middle East, and loosening the grip of the House of Saud (albeit slowly). It's in the long term goals and of course the ideological differences that make Osama and the neocons imcompatible (and yet strangely complimentary*)
*Would the neocons have been able to advance their agenda as far as they have without an Osama? I doubt it.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
The thing is that places do acquire reputations for a reason.
I'm not saying everyone in France is rude, I'm saying that on average in France you are going to find more people who are seemingly rude (seemingly is key, more in a second) to you than perhaps if you travelled elsewhere.
I have a few friends who have travelled to France (including outlying regions beyond paris) and the only one who enjoyed the experience is someone whose wife spoke fluent French.
This effect is aggravated by the "seemingly rude" point - there are some things people do in other cultures that strike Americans as rude. Part of that for my friends was some sort of service issue at restaurants, I forget the detail but some seemingly inconsequential thing they wanted was looked on in outrage by the waiter. Perhaps he also viewed the request as rude, but the response basically discolored my friends opinion of restaurants in France.
My own example along those lines is from a trip to Barcelona - myself and a few friends (two of which spoke Spanish pretty well) went into a toy store to browse. Now there was this cool thing in the window that I wanted to buy, so I took it from the display to take up to the cash register -well let me tell you the owner of the store flipped out! He was yelling and cursing at me like I had just set fire to his dog. Even after we explained calmly that I had not meant to offend he was incredibly angry and demanded we leave the store that instant! Well no toy is worth an altercation but to this day none of us can figure out what set him off to that degree. While it did not make me think of all Spaniards as lunatics, it certainly made me think a little bit inside that shopkeepers there were on something of a power trip with little respect for customers.
So reputations of other countries being difficult may stem from the degree of cultural differences between two countries. And to some extent, I have to say that given that the reputation is correct as far as the average person goes. Even though the behavior there might not really be rude, to the traveller it might seem that way and really that's the same thing as far as the traveller is concerned!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Here's another dirty little secret. The US couldn't be fucked about Europe, or the plight of the jews and other minorities slaughtered by the Nazi regime until the Japanese severly embarrassed them at Pearl Harbour.
Learn a little history, the French had their arses handed to them on a platter, the Germans had developed completely revolutionary battle tactics that would have pasted the US at the time in pretty much the same way they did the French and the BEF. Most of the country was occupied up until 1942 when Vichy France was finally overrun after the Vichy forces in North Africa surrendered.
This idea that the French are the stereotypical "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" is complete bullshit, sure they can be insufferably arrogant and for some reason they gave Jerry Lewis an award but unlike the US they have managed to survive two world wars being fought on their soil and still keep going.
Would you like pie with that sir?
It's not very good but then it's better than anything else in this thread!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Did you know that when the U.S. entered WW2 in the European Theatre, the first military power we opposed was....
Vichy France in North Africa.
I am not making this up. Not Germany. Not Italy. France.
And strangely enough, when the Americans finally beat the French, Petain perversely would *NOT* surrender because he had pledged support to Nazi Germany.
This is all in "An Army At Dawn" by Rick Atkinson, which I found to be a compelling read.
But gawdamn FRANCE was sticking by the Nazi's. To Fight Americans and British. Cripes. And then we saved their gaulic asses. I don't get it.
"All religion when taken to extremes is inherantly bad - yes including christianity."
Agreed.
It must be nice to think all people on an entire continent owe you for something you yourself didn't do,60 years ago.
Nevermind the fact my grandparents were either in the resistance/hiding jews or fighting in the war after fleeing to England (European and Pacific theatre) and were freed by Canadian and Polish troops.
Are you American or did you go to private school? Because most public high school history professors think like this. Many of them being former military personale or have a conservative outlook. However some tend to be very radical but still extreme. Also the problem with Americans and so-called history has more to do with Americans then teachers. I remember in days in high school, people would fall asleep in class and get into fights. I often knew more then teachers. So don't ridicule this poor guy he probably works in some shitty school with crappy students. He's just a product of his culture.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Did anyone notice that the USA had their share of surrenders? In Vietnam, in the Philippines against the Japanese, ... :
What do you think is more shameful
- surrender to a developing country like Vietnam
- surrender to a country more powerful than you (France against Germany)
There is a lot of truth to what you say. Both the U.S. and Osama wish to institute political change. Osama's actions did give the U.S. an excuse to impose change on the region. And you are right, it takes a unique set of events to garner the support needed of U.S. citizens for such a lengthy process.
Both Osama and the U.S. also recognize that the current monarchies and autocracies are not providing as they should for their citizens.
Of course the difference lies mainly in their proported aims for that change: the U.S. proports to desire an Arab Peninsula that is composed of democratic governments, but Osama wants a regional Islamic caliphate.
I don't really think this is really any "neocon" agenda we see in motion. The means are definitely theirs, but the desire to see a repesentative government in the Middle East spans much farther than the Bush presidency (think post-WWI Geneva doctrine in regard to Lebanon, Algeria and Palestine). But as you said, the means the Bush Administration used would not have been possible without Osama's actions.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
After all the documents are stored, they are going to have to beg Google for Google Desktop in order to search them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is interesting because politically the U.S. is so much like Microsoft - a lumbering dinosaur of stasis that won't engage an evolving world. Instead, it looks to impose it's will by brute force and deceitful stratagems.
Can you explain again how imposing "brute force and deceitful stratgems" is not an example of engaging the world?
We can argue (or agree as the case may be) about the effectiveness of the response, but to say that the U.S. is not engaging the world seems senseless. I'd argue it is one of the few countries engaging the world.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
I second you there. The quality of the discussion has gone down to such an extent in the last year that I have stopped doing any moderation. Looks like the last refuge of intellectual and informed discussions is to be found elsewhere..I am seriously thinking of dropping slashdot from my regular list of sites to visit.
Yes, I know about Vichy France, which the U.S. originally recognized before we joined the hostilities. At that point we supported de Gaulle and the Free French, but never whole heartedly, because de Gaulle was such a pain in the ass (from the Anglo-American perspective).
You might note that the Free French 19th Corps participated in Operation Torch. And it's been said that the fight was easier because many Vichy soldiers went over to the Free French side, rather than fight the Allies.
Still, one of the funnier Churchill quotes is, "The heaviest cross I had to bear during the war was the Cross of Lorraine." The Cross of Lorraine was the symbol of Free France, and de Gaulle was Free France.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Actually the "kill infidels" part came way after the Koran was written. I can't remember the guys name (Deobandi I think), but it actually comes out of a sermon given in the 14th century not the Koran itself.
"Jihad" actually similar to the infinitive "to struggle". But this Muslim preacher in the 14th century was arguing that it was the duty of every Muslim to restore an Islamist caliphate similar to the one Muhammad ruled. At the time this ment defeating the Turks, and he argued for a "violent" jihad.
Today Osama bin Laden bases his ideology off of this same sermon. The goal is the same too. He want to restore an Islamist caliphate (ostensibly with him as the caliph).
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
Oh I don't know, I imagine France has been rather relevant to its citizens and its neighbors. Not everyone feels this overwhelming need to control the world and everything in it.
And just how relevant have you been in the past 30 years, anyway?
I am a native speaker of a Romance language; our teachers and parents said that for us French is much easier to learn than English or German, which is not true. In school I learned French as a second language (12 years), German as a third (6 years) and English as a fourth (only 4 years). However I feel most familiar with English, even my German is better than my French. My knowledge of French is mostly passive. I can read almost everything (including scientific texts) without difficulty. I can also hold a simple conversation but I am not capable of writing correctly or giving a scientific talk in French.
I am a theoretical physicist and have no inclination to learn foreign languages and because of this my opinion may be biased. Anyway this is what I think about these three foreign languages.
1) For my people both English and French sounds are hard to reproduce, especially the nasal French sounds, the French rrrrrr... and the English phonemes pronounced by placing the tongue between the teeth. In my language pronouncing words with your tongue between the teeth is considered to be a speech defect. German words are much easier to pronounce, although reproducing a native German intonation may be hard.
2) Regarding vocabulary both French and English are easy, although English has a few more 'false friends' than French. This is probably due to the fact that in English most words have a Latin origin (despite being a Germanic language). German vocabulary is sort of hard because most words are not of Latin origin. Many people complain about German compound words; I have no problems with German compound words, I think they are a great way of enriching the language without adopting words from other languages; in addition they simplify the grammar.
3) Regarding grammar. Surprisingly English, German and French have common features, which do not exist in my native tongue (or in Latin). Both French and German make a distinction between the verbs of motion and of state when building compound verb tenses. Probably French was influenced by German (after all, the name of France comes from the name of Germanic tribes). Both English and German have modal verbs, which do not exist in my native language or other Romance languages (well the words do exist but they are barely used in modal mode). In French and English there is no distinction between Dative and Accusative. Both German and my native language have Dative and Accusative. There is no doubt that French grammar is the hardest to learn, they have a very complicated system of tenses and many irregular verbs which are hard to master. At the beginning German grammar looked very strange to me, the construction of relative sentences, etc. Surprisingly this was an advantage because I was not tempted to make analogies with my own language and learn everything from scratch. As everybody knows, English grammar less sophisticated than German or French grammars and thus much easier to learn.
4) Spelling. In English you have to learn every word twice, the written version and the spoken version. Typically native English speakers know better to speak than to write. For this reason in their education the emphasis is on spelling, not on speaking. For the foreigners, is just the opposite, for us the main source of new English words is written text, and thus quite often we know how to write words but do not know how to pronounce them. German spelling is (sort of) regular, anyway is the easiest to learn. French spelling is the hardest. They claim to have rules, but there are lots of exceptions and thus the rules are (almost) useless.
In conclusion, in order for French to compete successfully with English as an international language is must be simplified (it will NEVER happen). To a foreigner, English has many advantages compared to French: simpler vocabulary, simpler spelling, simpler grammar. English and French pronunciations are equally hard, at least for my people.
Funny thing. Today most non-European languages (Chinese, Japanese, Thai, etc) borr
This sounds a bit like something from Atlas Shrugged... government-owned State Science Institute is a money drain that never makes anything relevant; and all of a sudden, industrialist Hank Rearden invents a new, fantastic metal alloy. The Institute, of course, tries to destroy Rearden, or else people might realize what a waste of money it is.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Well the public neocon agenda isn't a secret, and the unspoken agenda isn't difficult to miss. (Although one could argue that the not-so-secret agenda is due to the overlapping interests of the neocons and certain business interests.)
Anyway, checck out that link, and look for stuff from before Bush was elected. It's more or less all laid out, and it becomes clear (as if it wasn't before) that the neocons were looking for any sort of pretext to invade Iraq; 9/11 was a godsend for them.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
- How is Redmond, Washington-headquartered Microsoft any less American than Google?
- How is negotiating with Microsoft not a weaker bargaining position than negotiating with Google?
Your mother had the brains of a hamster, and your father smelt... oh, never mind.Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...50x100mm RHS, in about 1500 length.
An RSJ would have a much greater effect, but it's harder to wield accurately.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Is google free software? Or has free just become a new synonyme for "Not Microsoft"?
------- I fumbled my registration and I now must suffer
Radical but still extreme? Radical is an extreme, in a sense, do you mean a tempered Radical, or a divided issue Radical but die-hard Tory-type?
Managing major companies as M$ is not much different from running a country. Politics, business and money are intimately mixed in most situations. Look at the current president!
No worse than that post-God religion that seems to be running rampant now in Europe- I refer, of course, to environmentalism. "Green-house gases are destroying the planet! Let's ban nuclear energy (a la Germany)."
But again, I don't care if parts of the U.S. are, in my opinion, more backword than I'd like and the rest of the world knows about. I don't live in those states, so I don't care what they do as long as they don't bother me. Vive la differance! Though of course France would probably ban teaching creationism with another anti-religion law to save its "honour".
If you really want to find stuff on the web, the fact that google favors paid advertisers gets you censored data.
French are being smart, as much as Gates and the MSFT monopoly frustrates me, I hope they work it out and put things in perspective for google-mania.
Frankly Yahoo.com has done everything I wanted for 6 years, until I found Slashdot.org, of course.
Getting old fast, Shit!
sorry i meant leftist...
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
France has no culture.
and occupy Paris, install a puppet government, and go home. This should take about 12 soldiers and 3 or 4 days. Maybe longer if the French run out of white flags and are therefore unable to surrender in a timely fashion.
Ya, and this is a surprise? He can easily be bought for the highest franc/euro/dollar. Remember, dear Slashdot reader, this is the same clown who sold nuclear technology to Iraq (confirmed) AND also probably had a hand in selling nuclear technology to Israel (unconfirmed). Selling to both sides of two sworn enemies? It's all for money. Throw more money at him and he too will be singing your praises!
The Quebec's government have some big projects ongoing for our own Bibliotheque Nationale (National Library). They actually merged the old one with the Montreal's library, moving all major collections into a brand new building downtown and begun a big effort to digitalize a big chunk of the collections, if not all of them. In fact, I'm really impressed with the work done up to now and this is maybe one of the few project well managed here. And for the best, without any private partnership, an hot debate here !
Rav
Seriously, how does one see a slashdot sig?
What link do I have to press?
Thanks!
"Most of the country was occupied up until 1942 when Vichy France was finally overrun after the Vichy forces in North Africa surrendered."
They fought British and Americans before they put up white flag.
" but unlike the US they have managed to survive two world wars being fought on their soil and still keep going."
Going down my friend.
I give them another 50 years and baring another , this time French Hitler taking over the place, it won't France anymore.
"Although one could argue that the not-so-secret agenda is due to the overlapping interests of the neocons and certain business interests"
... ..
Oh if that is the goal then we missed some truly big opportunities back in 1945 and then later in 1991
We had it all man - our soldiers were there , the enemy was weak
- How can France be so incredibly arrogant and yet have a massive inferiority complex at the same time?
- How can a country which devotes so much of its resources (economic, diplomatic, intellectual) to forcing its language and culture down the throat of the world (incluing participating in genocide just to ensure a Francophile government in Rwanda) attack America for its "cultural imperialism"?
- How can a foreign minister pretend to champion international law and multilateralism and at the same time be a degenerate, power-worshipping Napoleonic fan boy?
- Why does a country so obsessed with how others think of it continually make itself a jack-ass by interfering in even the tiniest things (making a national crisis out of the hostile take-over of a computer game company?
- Why does France think the "honour" it lost in 4 straight wars going back to 1870 will be regained by 50 years of back-stabbing Western allies in favor of third world tyrants (from building Iraq's nuclear reactor to lifting the arms embargo against China) or proudly telling Muslim terrorists they should be spared because France is Islam's most useful dhimmi stooge-nation?
Some of the French-bashing on here may be ill-informed, but the posters' hearts are in the right places and the truth is on their side. France is more repulsive than most of them know."Not everyone feels this overwhelming need to control the world and everything in it."
...
Oh France is the one European nation that actually does give a shit about this "controlling the world " thingy
"And just how relevant have you been in the past 30 years, anyway?"
Very.
The fact that Germany, France, Italy and most of the western Europe exists in the form it does it mostly thanks to US military presense.
"and falsely generalise against 750m honest peaceful muslims"
...
I don' trust these motherfuckers the same way I wouldn't trust 7th century Christians
These fuckers need to wake up and realize that medieval practices and ideas so prevalent in Muslim countries are not going to win them a lot of cheers on this side of the pond.
Fuck them.
dumb slimy shits
bigot yanks, what a surprise
They use Linux, yes. And "free" could mean "not Microsoft" in the metaphorical sense, where Microsoft becomes a symbol of everyone who wants to take away computing freedom...
But yeah, sorry, I wasn't paying attention. I suppose I should have said "...chooses Microsoft over some non-evil company."
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The world also bashed the Nazi and it was normal.
Sure, it will eat more resources, but it'd be great to see the sig.
It has become clear to them over a fourth of the leg, and is the answer! Bone is the question. The skeleton is the answer!
OK, Mandrakesoft. Here's you chance to kick Bill in the nuts...
I bet you could do it for a fraction of the cost as well.
Do it for France. Do it for the World.
Uhhh, is it just me or is France making a big deal out of nothing here?
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
France is a country full of regulations and government involvenment in just about every aspect of life. It is not surprising that the French government is seeking to get in bed with the Redmond beast, presumably in an effort to better control the lives of the french.
The terrorists see some kind of injustice in the fact that we live (for the most part) richly, and they have to scrounge out a living. They are just jealous of the power and affluence we have.
What, no 5,insightful? Where are the idiot mods when you need them?
The French government sided with the Nazis, and the French people didn't have a lot to say about it, with a foreign army parked on their territory. Certainly the French fought as they could. Ever heard of the Free French, which while lead by a royal pain in the ass, were as anti-Nazi as you could get. How about the French Resistance, which did a lot to make the German occupation a costly one for the Nazis. France had been screwed long before the war started, and its collapse was probably inevitible after the world stood by and let Hitler rearm the Rhineland.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Chirac is such a businessman... quel dommage.
Actually, as the Japanese national pride boom after the defeat of Russia in 1905, and the historical weather records of the period for which the "Invasion of Japan" had been planned by the US Admiralty, it would have failed as severe weather would have destroyed the US navy at the coast of Japan. Look up October of 1945-the Japanese empire would still exist and likely control from Manchuria through Korea, to the Philippines, out to Hawaii, and likely also most of eastern China-including Taiwan and Hong Kong of course.
Yeah, I've heard of the "French" Resistance. The people in the Resistance who did the really dangerous work were mostly Jews--who had little to lose given the circumstances. Modern French history even changes their names from obviously-Jewish ones to French ones.
Typhoon "Louise" on October 9 specifically.
A yanktard attacking France for doing business with a yank corporation, you're not getting any smarter fuckface.
waitaminute...
you'd be scared to have your children taught by somone who actually knows his discipline and is well read. wow. i'm stupid? neil, i assume that's your name (or is it what you do!!), you haven't any idea. because we share a differing opinion, that frightens you? perhaps you should read a book or two, and maybe you'd feel a bit more secure in YOUR beliefs, well that's the trouble, they're beliefs not knowledge. you can believe anything, hell some idiots make a movie, and people believe it. and it even sells well, and they pimp it to the academy, and in an election year, though it's full of lies and half truths, but correct politically...try responding with intelligence rather than bluster.
as mick foley says, have a nice day.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I'm willing to bet that there are loads of Slack/Linux users eager to collaborate on such a project. If there could be some government funding on such a project this could really take off, creating new opportunities in the job market as well - benefitting the French economy even more while keeping everything "home-made".
Oh well, I guess this will never happen. Slackware doesn't have wads of cash to wave to politicians so probably they're not even a blip on their clue-radar.The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
There is a missinterpretation of the original article, and most of people here (who can't verify the information I suppose) are posting on a wrong basis.
:)
;)
My English is quite poor, but my French is better
The original article, is quite badly translated by LangageLog and, what's more, with only a little part of the original article. Some important parts are missing (of course, this is the good way to troll, but I'm not sure this is the good way to inform).
One important thing is Jacques Chirac never talks about a cooperation with MS.
A (anonymous) journalist asked a (anonymous too) president's advisors about a possibility of working with MS, and the advisor replied "Why not ?".
All this slashdot news is based on this sentence only : "Why not ?".
What a scoop !
To sum up : An anynymous asked an other anonymous to ask if Chirac could work with Bill Gates and this anonymous (coward as me) replied "why not".
Welcome in slashdot, a Fox News company
M
What really pisses me off is that the US keeps dragging us (the UK) into their crappy conflicts like we have a mandate to help them fuck other countries over or something.
President Chirac is also pursued by the law for various things, like Bill, is that wat they call a shared point of wiev ?
Excuse me, Mr. pro-french /. readers, please ask yourselves if your vallant French PM is really worth defending before spouting 'ignorant', 'red neck' and 'white trash' references everywhere! How many /. posters do you really think are white trash?? I mean, Im sure there are thousands, or millions rather of people who live in trailer parks and keep up on slashdot-- alas I doubt our friends jeb and clitus slashdotters could afford the fancy pants computer parts you and I take for granted. For example, By my 2005 white trash census statistics most of our white trash slashdotting friends out there probably were able to afford either a dell system, minus a keyboard, or a Mac Mini minus a display and a clue. So needless to say, I doubt they would be posting-- leaving only the small minority of us non-red neck slashdotters to make these comments. So please consider this before making these 'white trash' claims...
... ... ... bush is dumb.
Also please keep in mind Chiraque is a politician, and a bad one... I certainly wouldnt defend bush if people made fun of him... (more than they do already)...
Mike
I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
Go on then. Fuck off. Withdraw all your troops from where they're not wanted. Ban your fucking annoying citizens from leaving America. We won't miss you. No more fucking American tourists. Woohoo! Party Time!.
Tell me one thing that America produces that we need to live. We don't need Hollywood. Films are made in New Zealand, in England, in India.
We'll never have to see another Hollywood film that shows the fucking dumbass yanks in the USAF trashing yet another country where they don't belong. None of this "America saves the world from yet another unlikely disaster".
Take your films, take your advertising, take your fat fucking asses. Take your disgusting pretend-beer. Take your fucking lame TV-shows.
Take your pro-life abortion campaigns, and your prudish attitude to anything sexual or arousing. Take your sick violence-worshiping culture. Take your fucking insane fire-arms policy. And for God's sweet sake take your fucking Pledge of fucking allegiance.
The rest of the world doesn't want you. You're a joke. You smell. You eat too much. You talk too loudly. You have opinions that are fucking offensive to the rest of the world. You're the only country to ever have discharged an atomic weapon on civilians. You've got the highest incarceration rate per capita than any other country. You have a death penalty. Corporate scum rule your country and decide your policies. You are proud to be headed by a man who would have trouble finding his own arse with both hands.
You don't understand sarcasm. Your comedy is cheap and debasing. Your sitcoms cannot stand on their own merit without canned laughter.
You have a fucking superiority complex. Lets get this straight. No-one who isn't American wants to be American. No-one "hates you because you're free." They hate you because you drop bombs on them.
Fuck off and die quietly America. We won't miss you.
Actually there were two main subgroups of the FR. One was more careful, and was more interested in intelligence gathering, while the other, which was mostly French Communists, were doing the sabotage and assassinations. The first group didn't like the Communists, because they made the espionage that much more difficult and brought down the heat.
Also, compared to the partisans in Yugoslavia or the behind-enemy-lines guerillas in Russia, the FR really wasn't that effective overall, at least not until right before D-Day.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I find it sad that your feelings towards the french are only "neutral". France is and has always been a US ally, and one of the closest (remember that 9/11 event? Guess which president was the first to go to New York?).
...their nationlistic zeal to keep France French.
As an example of why I feel people are unfaire towards France : When we ask that products we buy at the supermarket actually be labeled in *french* we are called xenophobic and anti-english. You do understand most of this country doesn't speak english that well? Imagine having to do your groceries with everything labeled in russian?
The quickest way to become an atheist is to study the Bible thoroughly.
The translation isn't correct for the first paragraph. That's quite a problem, since it changes the meaning significantly.
Le président serait-il prêt à s'entretenir avec le concurrent de Google, Microsoft, puisqu'il a tant de convergences de vues avec son président, Bill Gates, qu'il a longuement reçu à l'Elysée? "Pourquoi pas?", répondent les conseillers de M. Chirac.
The initial translator wrote "Would the president be ready to make a deal with Google's competitor, Microsoft" which is incorrect.
A correct translation would be:
Would the president be ready to talk with Google's competitor, Microsoft, since he has so many views in common with its president, Bill Gates, whom he has long welcomed to the Elysée?
Quite a different meaning, don't you think ?
When I say "neutral" I mean neither hostile nor happiness towards that particular country. This has more to do with ignorance on my own part than anything else. How can I truly appreciate something that I don't know anything about? So they are an ally. So is Australia. Does that mean I have to love Australia? No. I feel neutral about Australia as well.
I think you just assumed that I was anti-French from the get go, and I'm sorry to say that's just you reading into it more than there is. It really feels like you're simply trying to pick a fight here. There's no animosity on my part towards the French embracing their heritage. You simply *assumed* that "nationalistic zeal" has bad connotations. It doesn't have to, I don't mean it in a negative way. Its a perfect description of things like excising Anglicanized words from their vocabulary. Or trying to get muslim women not to wear burqas. Did I call them xenophobic? No. Did I call them anti-English? No. I realize you're trying to defend the French, but attacking my post is the wrong place to begin. I simply pointed out the incongruity of their situation, which wasn't an attack, just a comment on the situation.
you're not from texas by any chance are you? :)
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
That would be a ken-by-ten But what about Barbie, and all my other action figures? ;)
I'm French. And I CAN tell you, people who live in Paris are NOT normal french ! They're much more inpolite, and believe they are the center of the world.Repulsing, mainly for the others French !!!
But to make something clear : It's not because a lot of French people can READ english that they can actually understand SPOKEN english (and, much more difficult, american !!!). So, if you're american, don't be angry if they have problems to speak with you or look at you in a strange way. Don't get fooled by the charmant accent of the waitress ; she's just very bad in english, and if her accent sounds very nice to you, it's not important how good your english is, she will not understand it anyway unless you have a very good frenchy accent...
The cause to that could be that, at school, we only learn to write and read, and so little to speak and understand ! There is absolutely NO phonology in the english school's courses !! I did heard for the first time of phonology of english at the university... After 5 years of learning english.
And finally, take distance with what french say to you. There a lot of dumb french people, you will sure meet one of them in a travel to France. But the people are simply very frankly, they say and show you what they think. Even the negative. But when it's positive, it's really positive ; this a different culture, like Asia or Africa. Take it as it is.
And here is yet, another reason why the /. moderation system needs something akin to a 'stupid' tag.....
"Actually, I think the anti-French thing in the US comes mostly from the second half of the last century"
...
...
...
,specialist in TANK , ever to come out of France , how to do battle in his own country. And tought he whas without an armed force. And that they add surendered ...
... The President of France at the time whas : Paul Reynaud.
... And we dont whant to discuss there " intel " and crdibility. They have none.
No , the bad sentiments come from the time when the US whas a French colony , The French have always been more properous then the English and where less Taxing on there French subject.
When the British took over America's colony the English tought they would now be on eqal or superior footing with the French and things pretty much stayed the same.
There is also the Fact that the French helped the US get there own country and once it whas done asked politely the US to repay there Debt , wich we all know the US never do. At the time the French called them thief
There is also The US - CANADA relation , part of Canada is French and they where the ones to always inflict the most damage on the English Colony in the many wars we add with them.
The first time they tried invading Canada they tried it on the middle thinking that the French part would not come to help and that the rest whas too far away to come in a timely fashion.
They where handed , there , one of there worst defeat ever 500 000 vs 10 000
In the 9 recorded Time , The US whent to war with CANADA they where defeated every time , and most of the time by the French part
"Churchill, Roosevelt and Ike"
Actually reverse that De Gaule add problem with Churchill, Roosevelt and Ike , not the other way around.
Churchill got the blame for Neville Chamberlain lack of vision and inactions , and dealing with the treator of the vichy government.
Roosevelt whas the coward who broke the treatee and promise of WW1.And who recognise the treator of the vichy government.
Ike whas a General of the United States , who tought he could show one the greatest military man
But most importantly all 3 wrongly failed for the German trick of having Petain Surrender in the name of France
When the US is involved the others are always to blame anyway
"Do you really thing your english is 'superior' ?"
When we can spell it correctly, yes.
People (or only Americans) seem to miss my point. I'm not even French and yet the anti-French posts piss me off. Because the posts are like that. So insulting. Now, when the way Americans say these things itself can piss people off so much, do you think the Americans are very gentle and rational in their foriegn and military policies? (I'm not saying that since they talk like this they must have bad foriegn policies. I'm pointing out the already bad aspects of their foriegn policy.) Americans destroy other countries for their own good (and sometimes for no one's good) - both militarily and economically. Militarily, they stoop to levels that others won't even think of. They force laws and treaties (military and economical) that unreasonably favour them. They suck the blood out of other countries while acting as if they are giving everyone a fair chance. They attack and destroy any country they hate. Sometimes just because they hate it. In any international forum (no, not internet 'forums', the other, old, meaning of the word 'forum') they want everyone to recognise that their superiority is obvious and their well being comes first. They refuse to accept that others might be equal to them. And they do all this a million times more any other country. And this is not something new - this is not a "Bush" thing. They've been doing this for centuries. Until now, fortunately for Americans, people haven't acted out against USA's acts. And even when they did, it was only militarily. But now some "terrorists" just can't take it anymore and are taking it out on civilians.
In the past I wanted to believe that this was only the job of a few American politicians and the people themselves were just as reasonable and fair as anyone else. But after seeing America's such acts sustain for so long and after seeing the way Americans behave, through media and even meeting some of them on the internet (mostly outside slashdot), I'm beginning to believe that this is a general trend among all Americans. I'm starting to think that most Americans are simply assholes. Do you think people hate you just because you're rich? Do you think you're the only rich country in the world? Do you think your assholism has nothing to do with people hating you?
And the sad part is, it seems that Americans will keep on benifiting as long as they keep destroying everyone else.
"I was most way through elementary school before I could point out France on a map."
Well, that marks you as somebody who went to an inferior elementary school. I'd hate to think what your high school was like.
Parent is +5 funny? Wow, the other posters are right. Slashdot moderators *are* indeed fucking idiots. And BTW, thanks dude, you just made me lose any bad opinions I had about me because of my school teachers scolding me. (And BTW mods, before you mod something, please read the replies to that post.)
"when the US whas a French colony"
The U.S. was never a French colony.
Look up "louisiana purchase". Type in "Jefferson" to round out your google search.
Then you'll get a clue. Note there were parts of the U.S. that were owned by Spain, and large chunks we took away from Mexico.
Oh, parts of Canada were French colonies.
But I really think you need to re-read American history.
"And you have violated the decor of the store. Its very hard concept, especially for someone brought up in a consumer society, but just take it on my word, what you did is an extremly rude thing."
It might have been rude in the 19th century, but in the 21st, it marks you as a rube.
He forgets the key rule...the customer is always right.
You should never buy from such a place...if the shopowner is rude before he has your money, imagine what will happen if the device/toy/clothing is defective and you attempt to return it.
The whole reason the U.S. became a dominant power...why Japan become a dominant power...why Britan became a dominant power is because they adapted rules that made more sense and dropped the ones that didn't.
Episodes like this show that little pissants don't even understand the business their in... selling items. And instead have a false sense of pride in the arrangement of what they're trying to sell. I'll bet the guy didn't start the store...probably inherited from his father, and therefore hasn't a clue.
Primarily because french women don't shave, so we have to look at that hideous gaulic hair from every part of their hideous gaulic body.
As to pretty girls going topless, there are beaches all over the U.S. where this is acceptable and accepted.
Will there be people offended? Probably. Will there be people who don't care? Probably. Remember, the U.S. is a large nation. Its many times larger both population and economy of even the largest European country and so we have a variety of opinions on every subject ranging to both extremes.
I know that's hard to understand coming from a tiny, inconsiquential country as yours, but it happens to be correct.
You'll be the first to complain about "no iPods!".
You're such a rebel. And then you ask about the dumbest stuff.
Read the title of the post and understand why Wal-Mart has a larger economy than most countries of the world. But understanding that customers are never rude as long as they're paying you money.
As soon as you argue with this point, you are demonstrating a lack of understanding. Read it again until you will not argue. Then you understand.
I know you feel like arguing. But that makes you wrong. Read it again.
"the US hates Canada"
No, the U.S. Loves Canada. we have a common language, culture. We love you guys better than any other country.
Besides, how could we hate the 51st state?
As usual, the Slashdot headline is pure FUD.
Here is the snippet from Le Monde's article : Dans l'esprit du chef de l'Etat, il s'agit de bâtir un "alter ego" au projet américain, avant d'envisager une éventuelle collaboration avec Google, pour ne pas discuter en situation de faiblesse. Le président serait-il prêt à s'entretenir avec le concurrent de Google, Microsoft, puisqu'il a tant de convergences de vues avec son président, Bill Gates, qu'il a longuement reçu à l'Elysée ? "Pourquoi pas ?", répondent les conseillers de M. Chirac.
Translation : "In Chirac's mind, the idea is to build an "alter-ego" to the American project, before thinking about a collaboration with Google, to have a good position in negociations. Would the president be ready to talk with Microsoft, since he has many common ideas with Bill Gates, whom he has met at the Elysée ? "Why not ?" is the answer from Chirac's advisors."
In summary, Chirac wants to build a French language online library, to have a good collaborative work with google. Should that work be done with Microsoft ? Maybe yes, maybe not. But the stated goal is to work with google, whatever that goal that can be achieved with Microsoft or not.
If you need to work with Oracle, what do you do ? You call an MS sales man to leverage your negociations with Oracle. Well, France wants to work with Google, so it doesn't forbid itself from working with Microsoft, if that gives it a better negociations position.
Slashdot has become more and more a FUD machine, with more or less every headline in contradiction with linked article. Worse, since the actual content of the article is from Le Monde, and is in French, many non-French speaking readers won't be able to see the utter non-sense that the Slashdot article is. This is more and more becoming the Fox News for Nerds, and it's starting to seriously upset me.
Shit, they gave a medal to the terrorist Alain Mafart (Knight of the Order of Merit) and a parade for Dominic Prieur.
That was the government actually ordering terrorism, leading to actual convictions.
So yeah, the French state supported terrorism.
Jacques thought a computer can be control with a "shrew" and his advisers don't even read Slashdot.
How about France's support of the rebelling colonies in the Revolutionary War? Without France, Washington would have had a much harder time beating the English. They signed a Treaty of Alliance in 1778.
but in that last paragraph, you forgot the word "beleagured." Furthermore, I think you misspelled "Apple," as "America." Use the preview button next time, for crying out loud. >;)
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
i dont trust anybody that drives on the wrong (right hand) side of the road
France just crashed.
Needs a reboot.
Love your country always, but respect your government only when it deserves it. -- Mark Twain
Bill fights with monopoly of google and Vladimir fights ...
...
with terrorist in Chechenya
Saddam too was a good friend but now he is gone
While many don't notice, the *real* reason that Americans make fun of the French, and everyone mocks Microsoft, is that it's *easy*--they do all the work for us, and we need only repeat what they said.
.0
However, at the moment France has 52% and Microsoft 45% of the "saying things so stupid that we get mocked just by people repeating it" market. This combination would put a whopping 97% of this market in the same hands!
Obviously, this merger *mut* be stopped, or we'll have to get some work done! (Either that, or we could write or own material . .
hawk
rats. I can't. :)
.
.
Then how do you explain that sports where french have been traditionally quite good are fencing, judo, karate, rugby etc.
Gosh, this is too easy . .
You can't *surrender* in any of those sports!
Note that boxing and chess aren't on the list . .
hawk, who should know better
"France NEVER capitulated"
Yes, it was surrender, and worse than surrender, the majority of French enjoyed the occupation.
Disgusting.
The French *fought* the US at the beginning of WW2.
No matter how you want to describe it...the US saved your sorry, cowardly asses twice in the 20th century.
ANd its disgusting mainly because it was *YOUR FAULT* the wars started in the first place. We're like the neighbor who hates to get involved, but we always have to finish it because you aren't strong enough physically or mentally to finish the mess you started.
You're like a spoilt child. You disgust us. But we fix it because like a slum neighbor, you're ruining the planet, so we have to fix it.
We consider you "trailer park trash".
And a case of bad memory for me!
Still, at least it was close...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In a small store, whatever is on display, is there to bring the customer in. Its not to be touched and many shopkeepers spend hours to arrange the things in the display. He probably had another piece just like this in the back of his store. If you would come to him and say you want that thing, he would bring it to you and if it would be the last one, he would (maybe) take it out of the display to sell you.
Thank you for a civil response that I found really informative. I consider myself mindful of cultural traditions in other places, but I simply had never heard of anything like that or had any issues to other places in Europe.
I still found it really odd that he would not consider the fact that we were foreigners, and cut us a little slack - but like you say I probably really offended him.
It is true I would not go into a bar and take a drink from behind the bar. But here we are talking about a box you can se in the window, easily accessible from near the front door and on a stack of other boxes of the same type. In short I was fooled into thinking it was a stack of toys like any other you might see at ToysRUs, and my shopping instinct of not trying to bother any of the workers in the store took over. Frankly, I thought I was being helpful not making him go all the way back to the door and get it when I was already there!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yeah, and you've just shown us how Americans have gotten their reputation.
Aha, but ironically it also shows THAT reputation is perhaps as undeserved as the one about French people!
My intentions were good and as I said I apologized porfusley when I realized he was upset, I really did not mean any harm or disrespect at all. I am actually really careful when I travel overseas and generally get along with others quite well. This was the only instance really where I have ever had an issue with anyone, as generally if you show a lot of respect and friendly openeess to people they will treat you kindly regardless of what language you speak or where you come from. That is why it was so baffling to me, because from my perspective I was helping him out by carrying this large box from the front (where I already was) to where he was. I mean, would you normally be standing right by a box and tell someone to cross the room to pick it up for you? I don't know about you but I have no Manservent Jeeves to order about, nor do I want one.
So basically a lot of Americans may mean well but simply offend through cultural ignorance, which is hard when you are travelling the first time (that was my first time in Spain but not Europe). And I don't think you would argue that Americans should never travel! Indeed they could stand to travel abroad quite a bit more. Then I think some of the cultural assumptions would fade away a bit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
First, it is harder to enjoy a trip in a foreign country when you don't speak its language. It may sound weird to you, but the vast majority of humans do not speak or even understand English. The French popular culture relies heavily on spoken language, so it is hard to enjoy it if you don't understand it.
I think that part was a bit of dig that was undeserved. As I said my friends with me spoke spanish (I'm afraid I am limited to a tiny bit of German and some unrehersed Japanese). So no I do not find that wierd, and indeed it's a bit of a result you expect. But even my fluently speaking friends run into wierd things sometimes that are simply cultural divide issues, where even if you speak the language you simply cannot understand why someone would do what they are doing, especially when evrything you know is telling you it's rude.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
always remember to lay a pillow on the floor before throwing a tantrum of this magnitude ;)
"The one nice thing about being American "
... The one whe named after discovering it ...
... You where not even part of the Ally , you came along but did almost nothing both time.
Your Etats-Unians , Americans = CANADA
C ourageous
A mericans
N oble
A mericans
D efender of
A mericas
United States "of America" , its not America United States your on our continent
Its always funny to read the coward of BOTH world war rewrite history. Your not Real American
, you dont live in a democracy but in a republic and you did not participate in both world war from start to finish
"to save its "honour". "
Well at least they are Honorous people , Etats-Unians are irrelevant, stupid and annoying.
Unfortunately the real world is nothing like that. Many people the world over are racist pigs, just some like to point the finger at America's actions, or quotes from their favourite cloud riding god as justification for their racism. Sadly, much of the world has a crippling inferiority complex with regard to America. Their culture has been so overwhelmed by American media that their children are now only interested in their American role models (rock stars, movie stars etc) instead of the local kiddy-fiddler (priest/mufti/etc) or Used-Goat Merchant. This greatly angers older racist pigs and they use this as an excuse to puke vitriol all over the west. This concludes my executive summary of "How to Be A Better Spittle-spraying anti-American Hate Monger".
Just a minor correction, there are also a high concentration of rude and ignorant shopkeepers at the Victoria Markets in Melbourne, Australia. A large lady that was with my wife and I at the markets was pushed out of three shops by storeowners telling her she was "too fat to fit any of their garments" and "taking too much space in their store"! Really! It's so ironic that one of the women who ran her out had a profile like a dugong, and a bushier moustache than Magnum PI.
Go on then. Fuck off. Withdraw all your troops from where they're not wanted. Ban your fucking annoying citizens from leaving America. We won't miss you. No more fucking American tourists. Woohoo! Party Time!.
If you are exposed to that many American tourists then your area is probably quite dependent on the tourist dollar. Withdraw the American tourist dollar and you'll be back to castrating goats and selling pickled testicles to the local miners for a living.
Tell me one thing that America produces that we need to live. We don't need Hollywood. Films are made in New Zealand, in England, in India.
Interesting. So America doesn't produce anything you need to live and the example you cite is the movies they make. If that's what you need to live you're probably a rich fat pig who gobbles as much crap as Hollywood can slop into your trough.
We'll never have to see another Hollywood film that shows the fucking dumbass yanks in the USAF trashing yet another country where they don't belong. None of this "America saves the world from yet another unlikely disaster".
You didn't have to see them in the first place. You chose to see them and paid to see them, like the capitalist dog you are LOL!!!
Take your films, take your advertising, take your fat fucking asses. Take your disgusting pretend-beer. Take your fucking lame TV-shows. Take your pro-life abortion campaigns, and your prudish attitude to anything sexual or arousing. Take your sick violence-worshiping culture. Take your fucking insane fire-arms policy. And for God's sweet sake take your fucking Pledge of fucking allegiance.
All other things you have a personal right to disagree with but it's interesting you have a problem with the Pledge of Allegiance. Why would citizens promising loyalty to their home country be a problem for you? That's not a hypothetical question, why is it a problem? I'm waiting for an answer as I'm stumped what you could find offensive in the Pledge of Allegiance.
The rest of the world doesn't want you.
You should try just talking for yourself. The rest of the world is not also babbling like a hepped up glue sniffing wino so please don't speak for them...
You're a joke. You smell. You eat too much. You talk too loudly.
Sensitive little fellow aren't you? This kind of baseless vitriol works best on uneducated, disaffected people with nothing to lose. This tired old waffle doesn't get much traction on Slashdot where the average IQ is higher than the average shoe size.
You have opinions that are fucking offensive to the rest of the world.
Once again, I live in the rest of the world and a frothy mouthed lunatic like you certainly doesn't speak for me.
You've got the highest incarceration rate per capita than any other country
Fortunately, unlike many primitive countries, US prisoners are incarcerated because they broke laws, not offended powerful people.
You have a death penalty.
OK, that narrows it down. Pompous, hateful bag of wind and your home country has no death penalty.... who is John Howard?
Corporate scum rule your country and decide your policies.
Not quite true. Corporate scum heavly influence those who decide policies, as opposed to religious scum heavily influencing policy decision around most of the rest of the world.
You are proud to be headed by a man who would have trouble finding his own arse with both hands.
OK, less than 50% of America were proud on election day, probably less today. Latest reports are that George is quite good at finding it with both hands now, it's only single-handedly he's having troubles.... so give him a break... he's trying...
You don't understand sarcasm.
You can't be serious. Have you ever watched "Everybody Loves Raymond"??