OK, finally. I only had to ask you about six times. 90% of the images there look like perfectly legal porn; only one or perhaps two, from the "achim project" apparently, have underage girls showing some flesh. Those might be illegal in some places. But I'm afraid they don't outrage me.
And how, pray tell, would they be "all over" people who are outside the country, and whose only personal data they have is their nickname on Pirate Bay?
If you use a torrent you necessarily have to expose your IP, and thus your ISP, and thus the police can demand the name of the owner of that IP at that time me from the ISP. Using a proxy or a public WiFi point, say, might make that harder to determine, but at least you'd expect the cops to try. Anyone stupid enough to put illegal images on a public torent site is not likely to be terribly competent in covering their tracks.
I guess you didn't read it, then, as it explained that the FBI did, in fact, arrest a whole bunch of them.
I did read the article, all of it and no, that's not true.
The only arrest mentioned was:
In a landmark 1995 case, a Pennsylvania man was sentenced to jail for possessing videotapes of young girls posing provocatively in skimpy clothing. It was the first such conviction dealing with this issue in which the genitals were not exposed.
One person was mentioned; arrested in a case that did not seem to involve the Internet at all. So you just made that up. And so, I've had enough of you.
Heading is now "A Flawed US Election Reform Biill".
Probably in a few hours this stupid typo will be fixed, and my post will be modded troll. But just for the record.... Why the fuck can't the editors spellcheck?
And also, I predict they won't fix or notice the mistake in the first line: "It's stated purpose is..."
"It's" == "It is". Possessive is "Its".
{Reposted as the original has disappeared as a "troll".) I note all came to pass: headline typo fixed, text typo ignord, post modded troll.
Heading is now "A Flawed US Election Reform Biill".
Probably in a few hours this stupid typo will be fixed, and my post will be modded troll. But just for the record.... Why the fuck can't the editors spellcheck?
And also, I predict they won't fix or notice the mistake in the first line: "It's stated purpose is..."
Look, you keep stating that there is, or was, "child porn" on TPB. That is not a fact. You can show lists of files with "lolita", "Underage model" etc. BFD. Quite like some asshole with a grudge against TPB put them up. Who knows what's in them. As far as I've seen they're all completely legal. And I'm pretty sure the police also think that; otherwise they'd be all over the uploaders instead of dicking around trying to block TPB's DNS. There are pictures of children; and there is certainly porn. But there is no "child porn". I'm afraid I can't believe your assertions without proof.
Yeah, I read your 6-year-old Wired article. So what? Creepy websites with pictures of girls in their underwear. Sleazy, but obviously legal, as they were hosted in the USA and the FBI would send a tank through their door if they weren't.
You use George Bush logic: Bin Laden sent Saudi terrorists to attack the USA. Therefore the USA must attack Saddam, because we can't catch bin Laden and I hate him anyway. There is no connection between the acts you decry and the people you are actually attacking.
Perhaps you are forgetting that we are not worrying about how turned-on anybody gets here? It's still about the fact that young girls are being deceived into posing for pedophiles.
If it doesn't turn someone on, it's not porn. Though the converse doesn't apply.
And "it's a fact" is it? Or just what you imagine. And how does campaigning against a Swedish torrent site help them in the slightest? If the girls are exploited, WHY DOESN'T ANYONE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT? If you delete the photos, the acts are undone? Torrent are free, there is no financial incentive to create if that's your argument.
I saw that before. That's what this is all about? Girls in bikinis? What a waste of everyone's time. You could get a bigger thrill from a department store catalogue. Why don't you picket one of them.
By not taking stuff down, they're assuming the user is not guilty.
Note that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent". Nevertheless, they're NOT being neutral. Maybe it's reasonable for them to take it down. That isn't the issue, it's taking responsibilty for their decision. If they did that and provied reasons to the user, that might be closer to neutral.
They're required by law... If they start taking sides...
You said they would "lose their neutrality" if they didn't. That's what I was responding to. Maybe you think they have no choice; nevertheless, they have chosen a side. Thus they are not neutral.
I don't. I could list lots of dubious or wrong words I've found as "suggested" by various spell checkers, and as many errors they just ignore. Not to mention the problem of the wrong, but correctly spelled, word (horde/hoard, strait/straight, there/their, lose/loose....)
No magician is fraudulent unless he is specifically saying "yes I am REALLY doing this, not faking it"
And that's what Geller does, which is why people debunk him. David Copperfield doesn't pretend he's really got paranormal powers, so no one gets mad at him.
YouTube can't defend a user's legal rights or they stop being covered in the law as a "safe harbor." Once they lose their neutrality their liability goes through the roof.
They aren't being "neutral"; they're assuming the user is guilty.
First I would find a way to hide tracks for myself, then I would name and advertise the file to something that would be expect on TPB
Well no one has suggested there were disguised files. People have listed files labelled "Underage models", "Lolotas" etc. Though I really doubt the contents would be illegal outside Saudi Arabia.
Anyway, your method is supposed to give deniability, but in reality, any whiff of suspicion will get those involved on a watch list for the rest of their lives, and thay would have to be prepared to have their homes and computers searched. They would set up private trackers, use onion routing, etc. Only a complete fool would use TPB for CP no matter how disguised.
The point is that TPB brought this on themselves with their own choices,
Their choice to set up a torrent site is what brought this on.
Had TPB behaved morally in the first place
They are being sanctioned legally, not "morallly".
Again, you're achieving NOTHING to prevent any abuse of living breathing people by this. You're just scoring points against TPB who I can only assume you have a long-standng feud against.
And STILL, you have refused to describe these pictures? videos? that are so "immoral". Absent that, and with the police seeming not caring about finding where they come from, just trying to suppress them, I must assume they're legal, if perhaps sleazy.
You were the one who was accusing me of writing biased articles, as I recall.
Not quite. I said "the idea of you writing a 'balanced third party article' is ludicrous". it still is, I'm afraid.
Anyway, there's no point in us feuding. You obviously have a deep hatred for anything that smacks of kiddie porn. I understand the feeling, but it's exactly this feeling which is being exploited by parties who want to attack TPB. I see no good at all being done for the subjects of these mysterious photos (mysterious because no matter how many times I ask, no one will even describe them). As well to try to prevent road accidents by stopping newspapers publishing photos of them. Attack the people who make the photos you hate so much. Rescue the children. Don't piss around in the virtual world.
Since the article you linked to is in Swedish, how would I know? And you wonder why a summary, by Mr Anonymous, or a random blog in a foreign language wasn't published?
> TPB stated that they do not hold such links, and if any are reported they are immediately investigated and removed.
Those statements are not logically cohesive. If you run a tracker indexing hundreds of thousands of torrents, you have no idea whether or not you index any child porn torrents.
It's perfectly "cohesive" (if by that you mean logical). TPB didn't claim they had no child porn. They said thay would remove any if they were notified. What else can any site that allows public to upload do?
Anyway, no one who wanted to stay out of jail would use TPB or any public torrent indexing site to trade child porn. They'd have the FBI or the local equivalent tracking them and one fine morning have them come through their door.
I tried submitting a more balanced third-party article about this earlier,
Considering the comments you made today and on the prvious story, the idea of you writing a "balanced third party article" is ludicrous.
And since you've used Google to find these torrents, why don't you extend your campaign to them? By plugging the terms into Google, I can immediately find hundreds of sites with the same links. Is every indexing site, web or torrent, supposed to send new links to you for approval before they make them available?
Which sounds to me like they did remove something, and maybe even that if there was child porn they would remove that too
According to some comments in the blog, their admins checked a lot of torrrents some had claimed to be CP. They didn't find any of that, but did find other crap, like viruses, falsely labelled files, duplicates, etc and so they did remove those.
I have to say if one did want to trade CP, you would be competely insane to do it via a publc torrent indexing site. As far as I can see, the worst anyone has found is child models -- young kids wearing clothes, posing in a way some might find provocative, but no more so than in a JC Penney catalog. Sure, some are using it for sexaul gratification, but you could say the same about zucchinis and no one tries to ban them.
It took considerable work for the Allies to even find out how the Enigma machine worked.
Not really. The Poles had cracked earlier versions before the war. After Poland was invaded the cryptographers escaped first to France and then Britain. Thay had working eniogma machines, IIRC.
The main problem was working out the key settings. To test every combination mechanically was impractical. At Bletchley Park and in the USA they made electronic Enigma emulators (Bombes) that could be run much faster then the real machines. Still, they had to use lots of tricks to cut down the search space; and just stealing schedules of keys was always an important method.
By "exploited" I mean the girls are tricked into doing this.
And you know this fact how?
If this was somehow criminal, the "exploiters" should be pursued and charged. Why waste time chasing torrents? That doesn't help anyone. (Since torrents are free, this does not provide a financial incentive for the creation of such content; most likely it was "copied' from various free or pay websites). This is like trying to reduce car fatalities by preventing people taking photos of accident sites. (On Slashdot you should always work in a car analogy.)
Slashdot Mirror
OK, finally. I only had to ask you about six times. 90% of the images there look like perfectly legal porn; only one or perhaps two, from the "achim project" apparently, have underage girls showing some flesh. Those might be illegal in some places. But I'm afraid they don't outrage me.
And how, pray tell, would they be "all over" people who are outside the country, and whose only personal data they have is their nickname on Pirate Bay?
If you use a torrent you necessarily have to expose your IP, and thus your ISP, and thus the police can demand the name of the owner of that IP at that time me from the ISP. Using a proxy or a public WiFi point, say, might make that harder to determine, but at least you'd expect the cops to try. Anyone stupid enough to put illegal images on a public torent site is not likely to be terribly competent in covering their tracks.
I guess you didn't read it, then, as it explained that the FBI did, in fact, arrest a whole bunch of them.
I did read the article, all of it and no, that's not true.
The only arrest mentioned was:
One person was mentioned; arrested in a case that did not seem to involve the Internet at all. So you just made that up. And so, I've had enough of you.Bye.
Heading is now "A Flawed US Election Reform Biill".
Probably in a few hours this stupid typo will be fixed, and my post will be modded troll. But just for the record.... Why the fuck can't the editors spellcheck?
And also, I predict they won't fix or notice the mistake in the first line: "It's stated purpose is..."
"It's" == "It is". Possessive is "Its".
{Reposted as the original has disappeared as a "troll".)
I note all came to pass: headline typo fixed, text typo ignord, post modded troll.
Probably in a few hours this stupid typo will be fixed, and my post will be modded troll. But just for the record.... Why the fuck can't the editors spellcheck?
And also, I predict they won't fix or notice the mistake in the first line: "It's stated purpose is..."
"It's" == "It is". Possessive is "Its".
Look, you keep stating that there is, or was, "child porn" on TPB. That is not a fact. You can show lists of files with "lolita", "Underage model" etc. BFD. Quite like some asshole with a grudge against TPB put them up. Who knows what's in them. As far as I've seen they're all completely legal. And I'm pretty sure the police also think that; otherwise they'd be all over the uploaders instead of dicking around trying to block TPB's DNS. There are pictures of children; and there is certainly porn. But there is no "child porn". I'm afraid I can't believe your assertions without proof.
Yeah, I read your 6-year-old Wired article. So what? Creepy websites with pictures of girls in their underwear. Sleazy, but obviously legal, as they were hosted in the USA and the FBI would send a tank through their door if they weren't.
You use George Bush logic: Bin Laden sent Saudi terrorists to attack the USA. Therefore the USA must attack Saddam, because we can't catch bin Laden and I hate him anyway. There is no connection between the acts you decry and the people you are actually attacking.
If it doesn't turn someone on, it's not porn. Though the converse doesn't apply.
And "it's a fact" is it? Or just what you imagine. And how does campaigning against a Swedish torrent site help them in the slightest? If the girls are exploited, WHY DOESN'T ANYONE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT? If you delete the photos, the acts are undone? Torrent are free, there is no financial incentive to create if that's your argument.
Sorry, I'm not into that kind of thing. Thanks for asking.
Of course not, they're just freeloading scum who don't have lawyers.
I saw that before. That's what this is all about? Girls in bikinis? What a waste of everyone's time. You could get a bigger thrill from a department store catalogue. Why don't you picket one of them.
For whatever reason, good or bad, a choice was made. Thus they are not neutral.
Note that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent". Nevertheless, they're NOT being neutral. Maybe it's reasonable for them to take it down. That isn't the issue, it's taking responsibilty for their decision. If they did that and provied reasons to the user, that might be closer to neutral.
You said they would "lose their neutrality" if they didn't. That's what I was responding to. Maybe you think they have no choice; nevertheless, they have chosen a side. Thus they are not neutral.
I don't. I could list lots of dubious or wrong words I've found as "suggested" by various spell checkers, and as many errors they just ignore. Not to mention the problem of the wrong, but correctly spelled, word (horde/hoard, strait/straight, there/their, lose/loose....)
I really should learn to use smilies.
And that's what Geller does, which is why people debunk him. David Copperfield doesn't pretend he's really got paranormal powers, so no one gets mad at him.
Same attitude as those record company assholes. What about the artists' rights?
They aren't being "neutral"; they're assuming the user is guilty.
Well no one has suggested there were disguised files. People have listed files labelled "Underage models", "Lolotas" etc. Though I really doubt the contents would be illegal outside Saudi Arabia.
Anyway, your method is supposed to give deniability, but in reality, any whiff of suspicion will get those involved on a watch list for the rest of their lives, and thay would have to be prepared to have their homes and computers searched. They would set up private trackers, use onion routing, etc. Only a complete fool would use TPB for CP no matter how disguised.
Their choice to set up a torrent site is what brought this on.
Had TPB behaved morally in the first place
They are being sanctioned legally, not "morallly".
Again, you're achieving NOTHING to prevent any abuse of living breathing people by this. You're just scoring points against TPB who I can only assume you have a long-standng feud against.
And STILL, you have refused to describe these pictures? videos? that are so "immoral". Absent that, and with the police seeming not caring about finding where they come from, just trying to suppress them, I must assume they're legal, if perhaps sleazy.
Not quite. I said "the idea of you writing a 'balanced third party article' is ludicrous". it still is, I'm afraid.
Anyway, there's no point in us feuding. You obviously have a deep hatred for anything that smacks of kiddie porn. I understand the feeling, but it's exactly this feeling which is being exploited by parties who want to attack TPB. I see no good at all being done for the subjects of these mysterious photos (mysterious because no matter how many times I ask, no one will even describe them). As well to try to prevent road accidents by stopping newspapers publishing photos of them. Attack the people who make the photos you hate so much. Rescue the children. Don't piss around in the virtual world.
Since the article you linked to is in Swedish, how would I know? And you wonder why a summary, by Mr Anonymous, or a random blog in a foreign language wasn't published?
Those statements are not logically cohesive. If you run a tracker indexing hundreds of thousands of torrents, you have no idea whether or not you index any child porn torrents.
It's perfectly "cohesive" (if by that you mean logical). TPB didn't claim they had no child porn. They said thay would remove any if they were notified. What else can any site that allows public to upload do?
Anyway, no one who wanted to stay out of jail would use TPB or any public torrent indexing site to trade child porn. They'd have the FBI or the local equivalent tracking them and one fine morning have them come through their door.
Considering the comments you made today and on the prvious story, the idea of you writing a "balanced third party article" is ludicrous.
And since you've used Google to find these torrents, why don't you extend your campaign to them? By plugging the terms into Google, I can immediately find hundreds of sites with the same links. Is every indexing site, web or torrent, supposed to send new links to you for approval before they make them available?
According to some comments in the blog, their admins checked a lot of torrrents some had claimed to be CP. They didn't find any of that, but did find other crap, like viruses, falsely labelled files, duplicates, etc and so they did remove those.
I have to say if one did want to trade CP, you would be competely insane to do it via a publc torrent indexing site. As far as I can see, the worst anyone has found is child models -- young kids wearing clothes, posing in a way some might find provocative, but no more so than in a JC Penney catalog. Sure, some are using it for sexaul gratification, but you could say the same about zucchinis and no one tries to ban them.
Not really. The Poles had cracked earlier versions before the war. After Poland was invaded the cryptographers escaped first to France and then Britain. Thay had working eniogma machines, IIRC.
The main problem was working out the key settings. To test every combination mechanically was impractical. At Bletchley Park and in the USA they made electronic Enigma emulators (Bombes) that could be run much faster then the real machines. Still, they had to use lots of tricks to cut down the search space; and just stealing schedules of keys was always an important method.
And you know this fact how?
If this was somehow criminal, the "exploiters" should be pursued and charged. Why waste time chasing torrents? That doesn't help anyone. (Since torrents are free, this does not provide a financial incentive for the creation of such content; most likely it was "copied' from various free or pay websites). This is like trying to reduce car fatalities by preventing people taking photos of accident sites. (On Slashdot you should always work in a car analogy.)