This really has not alot to do with Linux as I see it. I haven't worked with SAP, but I have with Oracle, I've installed it on both linux and windows systems. The bottom line?
I like oracle on linux better overall, but its definately more of a pain to get setup under linux that it is in windows, which I often find bizarre as oracle was primarily written for unix ??
But regardless of your OS, one thing is for certain... there will never be any sort of apparent end to patches, and consultants when it comes to these systems. I'm no programming genius but by what I do see is for what this software delivers they could have made it MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to deploy and maintain. I mean hell quickbooks which takes a whopping 30mins or less to fully setup essentially does everything oracle does, the only real difference is scalability and interoperability. I often chuckle and cry at some of the problems I encounter when working with oracle applications but then it becomes painfully obvious that these apparent mistakes and non-completeness in terms of the software simply serve to generate more money for the oracles, sap's, and great plains of the world thru exhorbent support and consulting fees. Who would pay $50,000 a year for software support if it actually worked? Exactly the point. Its a complete and utter joke to hear these companies talk about how they are gonna make they're software so automated it runs itself. HAHAHAHA... Instead you will get software that automates all the existing admin functions and instead requires people that know how to fix the automated fixer! Which of course will requier you attend the vendors schools to learn how to do, and obviously charge them for the training.
The end goal here is to get the level of abstraction so high, that no kid can just learn how to fix it himself, and instead must rely on the vendors total support, consulting people included.
Okay I got an idea for another star trek movie.
A Soverign class ship is being built in the ship yards, and for some strange reason a temporal rift opens and the ship unmanned goes into the rift. It just happens to collide with the Enterprise NX-01, and severly damages it. Cpt archers crew is then forced to board and takeover the modern Soverign class battleship and discovers the borg we're really trying to get a hold of it. But cpt archer gets it first. Somewhere along the way they meet up with Seven of nine, and her and cpt archer get it on. full nudity of course with closeups of the "real" action. while this is going on, Tepal get's hot and bothered and joins in on the fun. After archers bones these two, he gets captured by the borg queen, and lays he d**k on her too and ends up handing the borg a major defeat. THE QUEEN GETS LAID!
If slackware went away, I'd have to use LFS and build my own distro. Every other distro has too much for me. Slack is the only distro that gots it just right. Just enough "extra distro" stuff to be helpfull, but not enough to be downright intrusive.
And now that slack 8 is out. It's just awesome
Being able to install slack clean to a reiserfs partition without having to monkey around is a very good thing. I'd be happy with the 8.0 distro for a year. I can just upgrade my own kernel in the meantime.
Man same experience here. I started using linux by using RedHat. I thought it was bliss getting all the power of linux, and not having to jack with config files.
Then one day something went terribly wrong. I got hacked, several times I got hacked. Then I had a need to look at teh config files. But it made no sense. When all the damn configs are located under/etc/sysconfig/network/2moredown/1moredown/yourher e/sorryhadyoufooled
oops that's just a symlink to/usr/lib/net/home/tv/device/dev/cpu/mem
Forget that. Then I installed slack, I neerly jizzed my pants. For a distro that is "minimal" this god damn thing was sure easy to figure out. All the configs in/etc all the startup scripts in/etc/rc.d (as opposed to/etc/rc.d/init.d/rc.0/stupid service
I can just easily comment services out of the rc.d files, instead of chmod the startup files themselves.
No damned buggy framebuffer install that probably won't work anyway. Just straight simple textmode gui.
Anyway now that I run slack, I'm much more able to keep a handle on what's running on this box, and what's not, what get's installed, and what doesn't. If it's in my box now, it's because I've downloaded the source, configured, maked, installed it. And then edited a few config files to make it work. I know how everything that matters to me went into this machine. And I dind't even have to mess with any symlinks,libs,dependencies to make it all work. Except the small symlink I mysell make for my linux source tree.
The packages slackware does have, are extremely simple. installpkg somepack.tgz
upgradepkg somepacknew.tgz
removepkg somepacknew.tgz
Just freaking simple I love it.
Man you hit that one right on the head. I have a very similar situation.
Slackware Mail/File/Dhcp/Dns/Intranet server all on the same box. I built every single server service from sources. Configured my own custom sendmail config, wrote a really nice set of DHCP and DNS configs. I only used the prepackaged stuff for the stuff that just ain't worth doing yourself. Like X & KDE, ssh, development packages. In addition I used X and KDE on this box to monitor the other non-X slackware linux boxes I have running on the network. I really tried to use redhat for this server. But after installing it a few times, I just couldn't hang. I had to patch my kernel because of some drivers, and I always build my own up to date kernel anyway. Trying to do all this in redhat is a freaking nightmare with all the symlinks and such. All I have to do is..
gzip -cd linux-2.4.NEWESTVERSION.tar.gz | tar xvf -
make clean
make menuconfig
make dep
make bzImage
make modules
make modules_install
cp arch/i386/bzImage/vmlinuz
lilo
And voila I'm done.
With redhat I'd try this, but I'm too damn worried and troubled by all the symlinks. Hell even the kernel image is symlinked. JESUS.
BTW I server 80 users total across 8 different branch offices across the country. Most of them are local to me though, about 28 are on the LAN, 18 are on a T-1 about a 1 mile away. The rest are all over the country. IN addition I process my Elite Force game logs on this box. It does it all like a champ. And I know everything about how this system is setup. With redhat, it was always a guess. Because it's just too damn time consuming to figure out how the damn thing is linked all together. I think one of Patrick's main goals is to keep the symlink number as low as possible. The symlinks that do exists are extremely few in number and have never broke on me yet. And in fact only make things in slackware easier when updating the kernel.
All things aside did anyone else laugh when reading this comment on that article.
With Linux, customers "end up being in the operating systems business," managing software updates and security patches while making sure the multitude of software packages don't conflict with each other," Miller said. "That's the job of a software vendor like Microsoft."
The job of microsoft. Now if only they could do as good of a job as the linux community.
Java is a very bad idea for games. Right idea with trying to keep a common system for all games, so that windows games, just as easily run on linux. But java is not the answer. This java client I have for Oracle Applications still isn't fast enough for me. Why the hell oracle had to drop the Terminal interface I'll never know. Telnet interfaces are so much better at doing real work. Anyway no way on java games. Unless it's pong.
All I've got to say is I tip my hat to both THG and AMD. THG for running the tests and showing the truth, and AMD for actually listening. Neither one of them seemd to have go into a media tissy over this which is one hell of a change after hearing about the likes of Microsoft And Intel.
In case any AMD peoples are reading this post, I am even more firm than I was yesterday about how great AMD chips are, and that everyone and their mothers should buy an AMD, and say to hell with Intel on the desktop. Intel costs nearly 3 times as much, and it's performance often times is just a "bit" ahead of AMD or a "bit" behind. Which doesn't justify the extra 400 bucks to spend on a CPU. This CPU meltdown thing was the only thing so far that has waivered my opinions of AMD Athlons, but even with this critical problem, considering the price I bought the CPU for, even if mine eventually does fry, I'm sure not going to have to cry about it.
Intel is for those that run x86 mission-critical servers, and those not in the know.
AMD is for those hardcore l33t gamorz in the know. Anyway just blowing smoke now.
GOOD JOB THG & AMD!!!
Slashdot Mirror
I apologize for the lack of proper formatting in the above post. I'm still working the newb out here.
:)
This really has not alot to do with Linux as I see it. I haven't worked with SAP, but I have with Oracle, I've installed it on both linux and windows systems. The bottom line? I like oracle on linux better overall, but its definately more of a pain to get setup under linux that it is in windows, which I often find bizarre as oracle was primarily written for unix ?? But regardless of your OS, one thing is for certain... there will never be any sort of apparent end to patches, and consultants when it comes to these systems. I'm no programming genius but by what I do see is for what this software delivers they could have made it MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to deploy and maintain. I mean hell quickbooks which takes a whopping 30mins or less to fully setup essentially does everything oracle does, the only real difference is scalability and interoperability. I often chuckle and cry at some of the problems I encounter when working with oracle applications but then it becomes painfully obvious that these apparent mistakes and non-completeness in terms of the software simply serve to generate more money for the oracles, sap's, and great plains of the world thru exhorbent support and consulting fees. Who would pay $50,000 a year for software support if it actually worked? Exactly the point. Its a complete and utter joke to hear these companies talk about how they are gonna make they're software so automated it runs itself. HAHAHAHA... Instead you will get software that automates all the existing admin functions and instead requires people that know how to fix the automated fixer! Which of course will requier you attend the vendors schools to learn how to do, and obviously charge them for the training. The end goal here is to get the level of abstraction so high, that no kid can just learn how to fix it himself, and instead must rely on the vendors total support, consulting people included.
Okay I got an idea for another star trek movie. A Soverign class ship is being built in the ship yards, and for some strange reason a temporal rift opens and the ship unmanned goes into the rift. It just happens to collide with the Enterprise NX-01, and severly damages it. Cpt archers crew is then forced to board and takeover the modern Soverign class battleship and discovers the borg we're really trying to get a hold of it. But cpt archer gets it first. Somewhere along the way they meet up with Seven of nine, and her and cpt archer get it on. full nudity of course with closeups of the "real" action. while this is going on, Tepal get's hot and bothered and joins in on the fun. After archers bones these two, he gets captured by the borg queen, and lays he d**k on her too and ends up handing the borg a major defeat. THE QUEEN GETS LAID!
And about 60 percent of executives that we're pollled don't even know they are running linux already.
If slackware went away, I'd have to use LFS and build my own distro. Every other distro has too much for me. Slack is the only distro that gots it just right. Just enough "extra distro" stuff to be helpfull, but not enough to be downright intrusive. And now that slack 8 is out. It's just awesome Being able to install slack clean to a reiserfs partition without having to monkey around is a very good thing. I'd be happy with the 8.0 distro for a year. I can just upgrade my own kernel in the meantime.
Man same experience here. I started using linux by using RedHat. I thought it was bliss getting all the power of linux, and not having to jack with config files. Then one day something went terribly wrong. I got hacked, several times I got hacked. Then I had a need to look at teh config files. But it made no sense. When all the damn configs are located under /etc/sysconfig/network/2moredown/1moredown/yourher e/sorryhadyoufooled
oops that's just a symlink to /usr/lib/net/home/tv/device/dev/cpu/mem
Forget that. Then I installed slack, I neerly jizzed my pants. For a distro that is "minimal" this god damn thing was sure easy to figure out. All the configs in /etc all the startup scripts in /etc/rc.d (as opposed to /etc/rc.d/init.d/rc.0/stupid service
I can just easily comment services out of the rc.d files, instead of chmod the startup files themselves.
No damned buggy framebuffer install that probably won't work anyway. Just straight simple textmode gui.
Anyway now that I run slack, I'm much more able to keep a handle on what's running on this box, and what's not, what get's installed, and what doesn't. If it's in my box now, it's because I've downloaded the source, configured, maked, installed it. And then edited a few config files to make it work. I know how everything that matters to me went into this machine. And I dind't even have to mess with any symlinks,libs,dependencies to make it all work. Except the small symlink I mysell make for my linux source tree.
The packages slackware does have, are extremely simple. installpkg somepack.tgz
upgradepkg somepacknew.tgz
removepkg somepacknew.tgz
Just freaking simple I love it.
Man you hit that one right on the head. I have a very similar situation. Slackware Mail/File/Dhcp/Dns/Intranet server all on the same box. I built every single server service from sources. Configured my own custom sendmail config, wrote a really nice set of DHCP and DNS configs. I only used the prepackaged stuff for the stuff that just ain't worth doing yourself. Like X & KDE, ssh, development packages. In addition I used X and KDE on this box to monitor the other non-X slackware linux boxes I have running on the network. I really tried to use redhat for this server. But after installing it a few times, I just couldn't hang. I had to patch my kernel because of some drivers, and I always build my own up to date kernel anyway. Trying to do all this in redhat is a freaking nightmare with all the symlinks and such. All I have to do is.. gzip -cd linux-2.4.NEWESTVERSION.tar.gz | tar xvf - make clean make menuconfig make dep make bzImage make modules make modules_install cp arch/i386/bzImage /vmlinuz
lilo
And voila I'm done.
With redhat I'd try this, but I'm too damn worried and troubled by all the symlinks. Hell even the kernel image is symlinked. JESUS.
BTW I server 80 users total across 8 different branch offices across the country. Most of them are local to me though, about 28 are on the LAN, 18 are on a T-1 about a 1 mile away. The rest are all over the country. IN addition I process my Elite Force game logs on this box. It does it all like a champ. And I know everything about how this system is setup. With redhat, it was always a guess. Because it's just too damn time consuming to figure out how the damn thing is linked all together. I think one of Patrick's main goals is to keep the symlink number as low as possible. The symlinks that do exists are extremely few in number and have never broke on me yet. And in fact only make things in slackware easier when updating the kernel.
All things aside did anyone else laugh when reading this comment on that article. With Linux, customers "end up being in the operating systems business," managing software updates and security patches while making sure the multitude of software packages don't conflict with each other," Miller said. "That's the job of a software vendor like Microsoft." The job of microsoft. Now if only they could do as good of a job as the linux community.
Java is a very bad idea for games. Right idea with trying to keep a common system for all games, so that windows games, just as easily run on linux. But java is not the answer. This java client I have for Oracle Applications still isn't fast enough for me. Why the hell oracle had to drop the Terminal interface I'll never know. Telnet interfaces are so much better at doing real work. Anyway no way on java games. Unless it's pong.
All I've got to say is I tip my hat to both THG and AMD. THG for running the tests and showing the truth, and AMD for actually listening. Neither one of them seemd to have go into a media tissy over this which is one hell of a change after hearing about the likes of Microsoft And Intel. In case any AMD peoples are reading this post, I am even more firm than I was yesterday about how great AMD chips are, and that everyone and their mothers should buy an AMD, and say to hell with Intel on the desktop. Intel costs nearly 3 times as much, and it's performance often times is just a "bit" ahead of AMD or a "bit" behind. Which doesn't justify the extra 400 bucks to spend on a CPU. This CPU meltdown thing was the only thing so far that has waivered my opinions of AMD Athlons, but even with this critical problem, considering the price I bought the CPU for, even if mine eventually does fry, I'm sure not going to have to cry about it. Intel is for those that run x86 mission-critical servers, and those not in the know. AMD is for those hardcore l33t gamorz in the know. Anyway just blowing smoke now. GOOD JOB THG & AMD!!!