The tragedy of the commons is a model, not an exact representation of reality. It's intended to demonstrate an idea and nothing more. Yes, farmers in real life would club the farmer with P/N+1 cows. It's a simplified version of reality we're talking about here.
But it does apply. Let's say you start a streaming broadcast station. Then I do. Unlike the farmers, how are you going to stop me?
Music is a non-depletable good. Unlike an apple or a blade of grass -- comestibles and other consumables -- if one person listens to music, it can be listened to by another.
Aha! You've hit the nail on the head!
Music isn't a consumable, but the industry wants you to think it is. They think the Tragedy of the Commons applies, because in their skewed version of reality music is a consumable. Free music will destroy the music industry just like free milk would ruin the dairy industry. Their business model is more like a dairy, and that's the reason for the big fight.
I know how to do away with all of this patent nonsense from here on out.
I'll make a machine that will approve or reject patents, and store them on microfilm. I'd like it to look like something Terry Gilliam would animate. A huge throw switch for accept/reject. An elephant on a treadmill for a source of power. Two rubber stamps, one for approved and one for rejected. A huge bellows to dry the ink. A massive series of lenses, mirrors and candles to reduce the image down to microfilm size.
Then, I'll patent it. If it gets rejected, I'll keep changing components until it passes. Replace the bellows with a cage of pigeons and a box of popcorn and resubmit.
Once I get my shiny new patent, I'll wait one week. Then I'll tack on the words "with a computer" and resubmit. We all know that the magic phrase "with a computer" makes a new patent. Ask Jeff Bezos - he'll tell ya.
Now - it'll be illegal to use a computer to store or approve patents. It's my idea now. The entire process will have to be done by hand. If you want a patent search...well the patents number around the 4,700,000 range. If it takes a minute to read a patent, then it'll take about 20 man years to prove it's original. By then it won't matter.
And just in case the government gets any funny ideas about "prior art" - well we know those lawsuits aren't ever won. Look at Wizards of the Coast. They managed to patent card games for chrissakes. Even though prior art of all kinds exists *cough cough* Steve Jackson *cough*.
But, I'm a reasonable guy. If they press their case strongly enough I'd be willing to settle out of court. Just pay me a nickel royalty for every patent in your database and I'll be okay with that.
"Douchebag," or maybe I should just call you DB to save typing? Yeah, I like that better.
I'm sure that offering to clear up Yertman's question was purely for information's sake and had nothing to do with maybe making a sale. "You won't have these problems with our pro version, yours for a low low price." You're a true humanitarian, and it's an enormous shame that your spam^H^H^H^Hpurely informational post got modded down.
On the whole "trojan" idea, TopMoxie is by no means a trojan, first. Second, its aim is not to take revenue from webmasters -- we've been trying for many months to get them to fix the affiliate link issues, but they have yet to do so.
Well Einstein, here's a hint: Don't include it then. And as far as it being a trojan, a simple GIS indicates that it sure as hell acts like one. It's buried in your EULA 200+ lines down, doesn't uninstall, doesn't announce itself, transmits user information without notifying the user, and (accidentally I'm sure) commits theft on your behalf.
I'm sure all the stolen revenue this unfortunate trojan-seeming unfixable programming error generates keeps you up all hours of the night.
Like I mentioned, I don't fully understand the whole moding blah blah blah system
You're a software developer and someone has to tell you how to read a FAQ? And you're willing to tell us what's wrong with our mod system, but by your own admission you know nothing about it. Hm.
And, I repeat, I didn't mark you as a troll. Someone else did that. We don't have a negative mod for someone trying to use Slashdot to sell their crap software. "Pay me and you can own a trojan free version of my software." Of all the negative mods, troll comes closest and I agree with whoever modded you. I'd have done the same.
As for the rest - well - as long as you work for a company that sneaks trojans in their software that aim to bilk webmasters out of their link credits...you're gonna have to live with the douchebag thing. I didn't call you a douchebag. I pointed out that you are a douchebag. There's a difference.
I didn't mod you. You can't post and moderate in the same thread. Douchebag.
Weaselmancer
PS: Your righteous indignation is a little lame, considering what your company is doing.
The story quotes a LimeWire Developer who admits 'While I agree that this is really a bit of a scam, it is a way for us to pay salaries while not adversely affecting our users.'
It may not adversely affect the users, but it does adversely affect the people you're ripping off. Douchebag.
I know how to do away with all of this patent nonsense from here on out.
I'll make a machine that will approve or reject patents, and store them on microfilm. I'd like it to look like something Terry Gilliam would animate. A huge throw switch for accept/reject. An elephant on a treadmill for a source of power. Two rubber stamps, one for approved and one for rejected. A huge bellows to dry the ink. A massive series of lenses, mirrors and candles to reduce the image down to microfilm size.
Then, I'll patent it. If it gets rejected, I'll keep changing components until it passes. Replace the bellows with a cage of pigeons and a box of popcorn and resubmit.
Once I get my shiny new patent, I'll wait one week. Then I'll tack on the words "with a computer" and resubmit. We all know that the magic phrase "with a computer" makes a new patent. Ask Jeff Bezos - he'll tell ya.
Now - it'll be illegal to use a computer to store or approve patents. It's my idea now. The entire process will have to be done by hand. If you want a patent search...well the patents number around the 4,700,000 range. If it takes a minute to read a patent, then it'll take about 20 man years to prove it's original. By then it won't matter.
And just in case the government gets any funny ideas about "prior art" - well we know those lawsuits aren't ever won. Look at Wizards of the Coast. They managed to patent card games for chrissakes. Even though prior art of all kinds exists *cough cough* Steve Jackson *cough*.
But, I'm a reasonable guy. If they press their case strongly enough I'd be willing to settle out of court. Just pay me a nickel royalty for every patent in your database and I'll be okay with that.
Good point. I know Dante also referred to a spherical earth in the Divine Comedy.
I believe the common man may have believed that the earth was flat well into the middle ages. Maps from that time seem to indicate a belief in the edge of the earth. "Beyond Here There Be Dragons" and all that.
But for what it's worth, you've changed my mind on the flat earth perspective. I've examined something I believed, and after reviewing evidence changed my mind. That's how Science works. Isn't it wonderful? =)
The point you seem to be missing is that Science is a process and Creationism is a part of a faith.
Science at one time did believe the world was flat. Science questioned itself and eventually rejected an absurd notion. Faith doesn't do this.
It doesn't matter to reality one whit what people believe. The world was always round, regardless of our perception of it. All science is, is humankind's effort to gain a more correct perception. And it's an ongoing effort, which is why things like cosmology matter.
Science isn't a myth, it's a process. A process that produces results, by the way. So, the next time you turn on a light or flush a toilet, thank a scientist.
If you look at Mark Ishikawa's business card, you'll notice that it lists no street address for his company, BayTSP, just a post office box. This is for good reason, since Ishikawa is one of the few Silicon Valley CEOs who regularly receives death threats.
So, you're telling me that they're gonna find me and my MP3's, but that can't find who's sending them death threats?? And it takes the Slashdot community exactly 1 hour to figure out his whois and block the moron at the firewall???
That leads me to believe that these people are utterly harmless. "Can't find their asses using both hands" springs to mind.
I'm pretty sure this will never take off, and here's why.
Piracy is the killer app.
The way something like this has a chance of working is based upon the assumption that Joe Sixpack won't care or won't complain until it's too late. Ah! But here's the problem with that...statistics say that Joe Sixpack probably has pirated software.
Joe tries to boot Doom 4 on his Palladium box, and it's a no-go. Joe hates new computer, and tells his friends. Intel/AMD/MS make no money.
They'll do this for 1 quarter, and then show the flagging sales to The United States of Disney, and palladium will go the way of the CPUID.
"It's impossible to solve the problem completely," Valentine said. "As we solve these problems there are hackers who are going to come up with new ones. There's no end to this."
Make you a deal, Bill. Open source it. We'll fix it. The same day.;^)
So we can run Wine, that's why. People complain that Wine is about 20% slower. Well - buy a processor 20% faster. Or in other words if Wine is too slow for you, wait 2 months and buy a new CPU. There ya go.
I agree with much of what you say, but there are also 2 other results that I believe will happen.
I don't believe that your casual home user is going to break out a soldering iron (or metaphorical soldering iron in the case of a software hack) to defeat this protection. True. The casual user will not be able to do this. One guy in a thousand will (like almost everyone who reads/.) Said tech-savvy person will defeat the protection, then release the content on P2P networks. Hell, most likely the content will wind up on P2P before the protection even gets added. Star Wars ep. 2 anyone? We had it before the theatres did.
Ask Dimitri about how much fun it is to present valid security flaws in a copyright protection scheme. You bet your ass. They will crucify the guy who breaks it. Even if he lives in South Backwanistan. But...even though they will nail the guy through whatever legal, pseudo-legal, or illegal means they can...we will still have it. Kinda like how they nailed the kid who decrypted DVD, but it did the industry no good because by the time they were aware...DeCSS was mirrored everywhere.
The rule these guys have to learn is that Copy Protection Does Not Work. And the snottier and more abusive they are about pushing it down the public's throat, the more 16 year old kids are going to enjoy thumbing their nose at them by breaking the next "unbreakable" scheme. It'll happen - you watch. That sound you hear in the distance is Jack Valenti tearing out his hairplugs.
For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive - you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope.
Slashdot Mirror
If I may, I believe you've missed the point.
The tragedy of the commons is a model, not an exact representation of reality. It's intended to demonstrate an idea and nothing more. Yes, farmers in real life would club the farmer with P/N+1 cows. It's a simplified version of reality we're talking about here.
But it does apply. Let's say you start a streaming broadcast station. Then I do. Unlike the farmers, how are you going to stop me?
Weaselmancer
Music is a non-depletable good. Unlike an apple or a blade of grass -- comestibles and other consumables -- if one person listens to music, it can be listened to by another.
Aha! You've hit the nail on the head!
Music isn't a consumable, but the industry wants you to think it is. They think the Tragedy of the Commons applies, because in their skewed version of reality music is a consumable. Free music will destroy the music industry just like free milk would ruin the dairy industry. Their business model is more like a dairy, and that's the reason for the big fight.
Weaselmancer
Hey man, Natalie Portman is important.
...ok, just kidding. Yeah. That's a well thought out article.
Weaselmancer
Anybody else think it's kinda funny that Amazon.com is selling a book on web security?
Weaselmancer
...from an earlier post of mine:
I know how to do away with all of this patent nonsense from here on out.
I'll make a machine that will approve or reject patents, and store them on microfilm. I'd like it to look like something Terry Gilliam would animate. A huge throw switch for accept/reject. An elephant on a treadmill for a source of power. Two rubber stamps, one for approved and one for rejected. A huge bellows to dry the ink. A massive series of lenses, mirrors and candles to reduce the image down to microfilm size.
Then, I'll patent it. If it gets rejected, I'll keep changing components until it passes. Replace the bellows with a cage of pigeons and a box of popcorn and resubmit.
Once I get my shiny new patent, I'll wait one week. Then I'll tack on the words "with a computer" and resubmit. We all know that the magic phrase "with a computer" makes a new patent. Ask Jeff Bezos - he'll tell ya.
Now - it'll be illegal to use a computer to store or approve patents. It's my idea now. The entire process will have to be done by hand. If you want a patent search...well the patents number around the 4,700,000 range. If it takes a minute to read a patent, then it'll take about 20 man years to prove it's original. By then it won't matter.
And just in case the government gets any funny ideas about "prior art" - well we know those lawsuits aren't ever won. Look at Wizards of the Coast. They managed to patent card games for chrissakes. Even though prior art of all kinds exists *cough cough* Steve Jackson *cough*.
But, I'm a reasonable guy. If they press their case strongly enough I'd be willing to settle out of court. Just pay me a nickel royalty for every patent in your database and I'll be okay with that.
Weaselmancer
Link fix: trojan behavior.
"Douchebag," or maybe I should just call you DB to save typing? Yeah, I like that better.
I'm sure that offering to clear up Yertman's question was purely for information's sake and had nothing to do with maybe making a sale. "You won't have these problems with our pro version, yours for a low low price." You're a true humanitarian, and it's an enormous shame that your spam^H^H^H^Hpurely informational post got modded down.
On the whole "trojan" idea, TopMoxie is by no means a trojan, first. Second, its aim is not to take revenue from webmasters -- we've been trying for many months to get them to fix the affiliate link issues, but they have yet to do so.
Well Einstein, here's a hint: Don't include it then. And as far as it being a trojan, a simple GIS indicates that it sure as hell acts like one. It's buried in your EULA 200+ lines down, doesn't uninstall, doesn't announce itself, transmits user information without notifying the user, and (accidentally I'm sure) commits theft on your behalf.
I'm sure all the stolen revenue this unfortunate trojan-seeming unfixable programming error generates keeps you up all hours of the night.
Weaselmancer
Like I mentioned, I don't fully understand the whole moding blah blah blah system
You're a software developer and someone has to tell you how to read a FAQ? And you're willing to tell us what's wrong with our mod system, but by your own admission you know nothing about it. Hm.
And, I repeat, I didn't mark you as a troll. Someone else did that. We don't have a negative mod for someone trying to use Slashdot to sell their crap software. "Pay me and you can own a trojan free version of my software." Of all the negative mods, troll comes closest and I agree with whoever modded you. I'd have done the same.
As for the rest - well - as long as you work for a company that sneaks trojans in their software that aim to bilk webmasters out of their link credits...you're gonna have to live with the douchebag thing. I didn't call you a douchebag. I pointed out that you are a douchebag. There's a difference.
Weaselmancer
I didn't mod you. You can't post and moderate in the same thread. Douchebag.
Weaselmancer
PS: Your righteous indignation is a little lame, considering what your company is doing.
The story quotes a LimeWire Developer who admits 'While I agree that this is really a bit of a scam, it is a way for us to pay salaries while not adversely affecting our users.'
It may not adversely affect the users, but it does adversely affect the people you're ripping off. Douchebag.
Well, we couldn't mod you down as douchebag because it's not an option yet. You'll have to settle for Troll.
Weaselmancer
NASA could pull my dollars directly if they were to include an IMAX camera setup on their future space missions
Done.
Overdone.
Weaselmancer
In Dolby surround sound, no less. Also part of the MS "vision".
Weaselmancer
And you supposedly gave your permission when you clicked through the EULA.
Who wrote their EULA? Rumplestiltskin??
Weaselmancer
PS Just because you call your shot, doesn't make it legal. Officer, I'm going to run this red light. Click here to agree.
I know how to do away with all of this patent nonsense from here on out.
I'll make a machine that will approve or reject patents, and store them on microfilm. I'd like it to look like something Terry Gilliam would animate. A huge throw switch for accept/reject. An elephant on a treadmill for a source of power. Two rubber stamps, one for approved and one for rejected. A huge bellows to dry the ink. A massive series of lenses, mirrors and candles to reduce the image down to microfilm size.
Then, I'll patent it. If it gets rejected, I'll keep changing components until it passes. Replace the bellows with a cage of pigeons and a box of popcorn and resubmit.
Once I get my shiny new patent, I'll wait one week. Then I'll tack on the words "with a computer" and resubmit. We all know that the magic phrase "with a computer" makes a new patent. Ask Jeff Bezos - he'll tell ya.
Now - it'll be illegal to use a computer to store or approve patents. It's my idea now. The entire process will have to be done by hand. If you want a patent search...well the patents number around the 4,700,000 range. If it takes a minute to read a patent, then it'll take about 20 man years to prove it's original. By then it won't matter.
And just in case the government gets any funny ideas about "prior art" - well we know those lawsuits aren't ever won. Look at Wizards of the Coast. They managed to patent card games for chrissakes. Even though prior art of all kinds exists *cough cough* Steve Jackson *cough*.
But, I'm a reasonable guy. If they press their case strongly enough I'd be willing to settle out of court. Just pay me a nickel royalty for every patent in your database and I'll be okay with that.
Weaselmancer
Good point. I know Dante also referred to a spherical earth in the Divine Comedy.
I believe the common man may have believed that the earth was flat well into the middle ages. Maps from that time seem to indicate a belief in the edge of the earth. "Beyond Here There Be Dragons" and all that.
But for what it's worth, you've changed my mind on the flat earth perspective. I've examined something I believed, and after reviewing evidence changed my mind. That's how Science works. Isn't it wonderful? =)
Weaselmancer
The point you seem to be missing is that Science is a process and Creationism is a part of a faith.
Science at one time did believe the world was flat. Science questioned itself and eventually rejected an absurd notion. Faith doesn't do this.
It doesn't matter to reality one whit what people believe. The world was always round, regardless of our perception of it. All science is, is humankind's effort to gain a more correct perception. And it's an ongoing effort, which is why things like cosmology matter.
Science isn't a myth, it's a process. A process that produces results, by the way. So, the next time you turn on a light or flush a toilet, thank a scientist.
Weaselmancer
Quoth the article:
If you look at Mark Ishikawa's business card, you'll notice that it lists no street address for his company, BayTSP, just a post office box. This is for good reason, since Ishikawa is one of the few Silicon Valley CEOs who regularly receives death threats.
So, you're telling me that they're gonna find me and my MP3's, but that can't find who's sending them death threats?? And it takes the Slashdot community exactly 1 hour to figure out his whois and block the moron at the firewall???
That leads me to believe that these people are utterly harmless. "Can't find their asses using both hands" springs to mind.
Weaselmancer
100% complete agreement. Good call.
I'm pretty sure this will never take off, and here's why.
Piracy is the killer app.
The way something like this has a chance of working is based upon the assumption that Joe Sixpack won't care or won't complain until it's too late. Ah! But here's the problem with that...statistics say that Joe Sixpack probably has pirated software.
Joe tries to boot Doom 4 on his Palladium box, and it's a no-go. Joe hates new computer, and tells his friends. Intel/AMD/MS make no money.
They'll do this for 1 quarter, and then show the flagging sales to The United States of Disney, and palladium will go the way of the CPUID.
I hope.
Weaselmancer
"It's impossible to solve the problem completely," Valentine said. "As we solve these problems there are hackers who are going to come up with new ones. There's no end to this."
Make you a deal, Bill. Open source it. We'll fix it. The same day. ;^)
Weaselmancer
So we can run Wine, that's why. People complain that Wine is about 20% slower. Well - buy a processor 20% faster. Or in other words if Wine is too slow for you, wait 2 months and buy a new CPU. There ya go.
Weaselmancer
I agree with much of what you say, but there are also 2 other results that I believe will happen.
I don't believe that your casual home user is going to break out a soldering iron (or metaphorical soldering iron in the case of a software hack) to defeat this protection. True. The casual user will not be able to do this. One guy in a thousand will (like almost everyone who reads /.) Said tech-savvy person will defeat the protection, then release the content on P2P networks. Hell, most likely the content will wind up on P2P before the protection even gets added. Star Wars ep. 2 anyone? We had it before the theatres did.
Ask Dimitri about how much fun it is to present valid security flaws in a copyright protection scheme. You bet your ass. They will crucify the guy who breaks it. Even if he lives in South Backwanistan. But...even though they will nail the guy through whatever legal, pseudo-legal, or illegal means they can...we will still have it. Kinda like how they nailed the kid who decrypted DVD, but it did the industry no good because by the time they were aware...DeCSS was mirrored everywhere.
The rule these guys have to learn is that Copy Protection Does Not Work. And the snottier and more abusive they are about pushing it down the public's throat, the more 16 year old kids are going to enjoy thumbing their nose at them by breaking the next "unbreakable" scheme. It'll happen - you watch. That sound you hear in the distance is Jack Valenti tearing out his hairplugs.
Weaselmancer
Really everyone, think about the potential here!
Play a copy of Pocahontas out of your car window, and never get another speeding ticket again. You are now invisible to radar.
Plan to hold up a bank? Bring along a portable TV and shut the cameras off. Also works at ATMs.
Worried about being wiretapped? Develop a tolerance for N'Sync. Always play it in the background.
Still want to rip cd/movie/analog data? Replace your a/d chip with a simple resistor tree and bank of opamps as comparitors and you're good to go.
This is a hacker's dream come true.
Weaselmancer
PS: It's a sad, sad world when a frikkin resistor tree is illegal because it's a circumvention device.
...kinda like watching a shark eat a vulture.
Weaselmancer
For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive - you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope.
Chapter 13
Weaselmancer