You're right. The hp/compaq drivers should be open-source. But the reality is that I need to use them. Maybe this will be a wakeup call for HP/compaq. Red Hat's unpredictability may force them to support more distributions with their drivers....
Since it's the same product as Redhat Enterprise WS/ES, I'd simply build the SRPMS of the updates that are released for Redhat WS/ES once the year subscription is up. My guess is that they won't leave you without an upgrade path to a renewable subscription. Even if they did, buying another box for $99 is less than another $200-$400 yearly subscription fee.
I'll never understand the Debian-zealots. It's a good distro, but I don't think it's the best match for my hardware situation. If I were running a set of servers on commodity hardware, I'd go that direction, but I have about 100 HP/Compaq Proliant servers that run value-added management software that relies on Redhat. Try installing Debian on a G3 Proliant ML370. It's not optimal.
When I registered the machine running Red Hat Professional Workstation, I was given a subscription to the Red Hat Enterprise WS up2date channel. Perhaps it will be deactivated in a year, like the quote on their page indicates. Maybe it won't. It's the same product as RHEL WS, so I'm not too concerned.
The widely-available SRPMS for Enterprise Linux build just fine on Red Hat Professional Workstation, so as long as RHEL 3.0 has updates, the Professional Workstation product will be usable and and have an upgrade path..
The $99 Red Hat Professional Desktop (available from CompUsa, etc.) IS Red Hat Enterprise WS. They didn't even bother to relabel the product. I don't think the EULA is as restrictive as the Enterprise versions, so I bet you can install it on as many machines as you wish. I've also been able to perform in-place upgrades to RHEL from Red Hat 7.3 and Red Hat 8.0.
But my main question wasn't answered. I wanted to know about the shadiness surrounding the Red Hat Enterprise, Professional Workstation and Academic versions. The latter two seem to be rebadged/repackaged versions of Enterprise WS.
However, a Google cache of the page shows the relationship of Professional Workstation to the rest of the RHEL line.
The Red Hat Professional Workstation isn't available online, or through Red Hat, but through a few selected retail channels. Buy.com has it for $82.57, which includes one year of up2date service. It's the same product as Red Hat Enterprise Workstation. I purchased it from my local Microcenter for $99. Here's the RPM list.
It looks like this product was a last-minute addition.... Apparently, it's not crippled or relabeled.
Even more interesting is the fact that Red Hat didn't put much effort into product differentiation with this Professional Workstation product. I opened the box and the CDs were labeled "Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS". Well, only the first CD was labeled as such. The other CDs are identical to the Red Hat Enterprise AS/ES offering and include the same RPMS/SRPMS. SRPMS build cleanly in every test case I tried. So, buying this and using Enterprise 3.0 SRPMS for future updates is entirely possible. The same RHEL patched 2.4.21 kernel is there, too. Nifty.
Another issues that bugged me about the Red Hat Enterprise Linux move was the poor upgrade path. Reinstalling the OS on production servers that are running Red Hat 7.x or 8 ain't pretty. So, my final test with the Professional Workstation was prompted by a half-page paragraph in the manual that came with the box set.... It stated that in-place OS upgrades were only available for Red Hat Enterprise 2.1 -> Red Hat Enterprise 3.0 systems (via "linux update" at boot)...... however, you have the option of booting the install CD with "linux updateany" to relax the restriction "in case your/etc/issue file is damaged". Hmm.... No version-checking, eh? So I performed a test in-place upgrade on an existing Red Hat 8.0-equipped Proliant server...... It totally worked without a hitch!
This, along with the education and bulk-pricing deals leads me to believe that the Red Hat marketing department is working hard to appeal to the people it alienated with its announcements over the past few weeks. But it may not be enough. How can enyone plan for the future when Red Hat seems to be a moving target? We'll see what happens come December 31.
It's about the Redhat Professional Workstation (not Enterprise WS) box set that is being sold in the major retail outlets. It's the same thing as Enterprise Linux WS.... the CDs even say so. I've found that it does provide an upgrade path to the legacy versions. Check out the link.
However, a Google cache of the page shows the relationship of Professional Workstation to the rest of the RHEL line.
The Red Hat Professional Workstation isn't available online, or through Red Hat, but through a few selected retail channels. Buy.com has it for $82.57, which includes one year of up2date service. It's the same product as Red Hat Enterprise Workstation. I purchased it from my local Microcenter for $99. Here's the RPM list.
It looks like this product was a last-minute addition.... Apparently, it's not crippled or relabeled.
Even more interesting is the fact that Red Hat didn't put much effort into product differentiation with this Professional Workstation product. I opened the box and the CDs were labeled "Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS". Well, only the first CD was labeled as such. The other CDs are identical to the Red Hat Enterprise AS/ES offering and include the same RPMS/SRPMS. SRPMS build cleanly in every test case I tried. So, buying this and using Enterprise 3.0 SRPMS for future updates is entirely possible. The same RHEL patched 2.4.21 kernel is there, too. Nifty.
Another issues that bugged me about the Red Hat Enterprise Linux move was the poor upgrade path. Reinstalling the OS on production servers that are running Red Hat 7.x or 8 ain't pretty. So, my final test with the Professional Workstation was prompted by a half-page paragraph in the manual that came with the box set.... It stated that in-place OS upgrades were only available for Red Hat Enterprise 2.1 -> Red Hat Enterprise 3.0 systems (via "linux update" at boot)...... however, you have the option of booting the install CD with "linux updateany" to relax the restriction "in case your/etc/issue file is damaged". Hmm.... No version-checking, eh? So I performed a test in-place upgrade on an existing Red Hat 8.0-equipped Proliant server...... It totally worked without a hitch!
This, along with the education and bulk-pricing deals leads me to believe that the Red Hat marketing department is working hard to appeal to the people it alienated with its announcements over the past few weeks. We'll see what happens come December 31.
I just went to Microcenter and purchased a Redhat Professional Workstation Box. It was $99 and the CDs are labeled as "Redhat Enterprise Linux WS version 3".
I think this was a last-ditch effort to fill the void. Good move on Red Hat's part.
However, a Google cache of the page shows the relationship of Professional Workstation to the rest of the RHEL line.
The Red Hat Professional Workstation isn't available online, or through Red Hat, but through a few selected retail channels. Buy.com has it for $82.57, which includes one year of up2date service. According to the various Red Hat lists, it's the same product as Red Hat Enterprise Workstation. Here's the RPM list.
It looks like this product was a last-minute addition.... I recall someone on the Red Hat list mentioning that he received RH WS CDs when he bought the product. Apparently, it's not crippled or relabeled.
Given my previous rants on Slashdot about the Red Hat shadiness, this looks like a good option.
I'm the systems engineer for a software company whose product is bundled with Redhat Linux and HP Proliant servers. The recent Redhat changes are bad news for our product. For the past few years, we've migrated former AIX, SCO and HP-UX customers to HP/Compaq servers with appropriate versions of Redhat (7.x, 8) and our software on top. Luckily, the software is easily portable and can run unmodified on any unix variant. Redhat 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 have proven to be the best match for our software/hardware solution. The hardcore Compaq/HP Proliant server hardware support (for ML370's and ML570's) is there. HP's agents add temperature, SCSI/array and environment monitoring to the Redhat setup. The OSes are stable. We use(d) up2date to keep on top of security patches (openssh, openssl and sendmail are my only concerns). It was nice because we could give the customer a real Redhat box with media and manuals (not that they used it... but it's nice to have the packaging). As a vendor/reseller, we paid for the boxed media and of course, the Redhat Network subscriptions.
Now, I have 100+ Linux servers around the country, and a stream of new customers. I've frozen new deployments at Redhat 8.0 because 9 didn't allow me to use the HP/Compaq-specific hardware agents/drivers. So, we've everything from 7.0 through 8.0 in the field. Over the past few months, Redhat dropped up2date support and patches for Redhat 7.0. I feel guilty installing 8.0 on new boxes because I know support for it will be dropped at the end of the year. By Dec. 31, all of my systems will be "unsupported." This looks awful because we're starting to get more corporate customers, and I've receiving calls from their CTO's like, "wait, we want to make sure you'll be installing a SUPPORTED version of Linux if we buy your application." Grrr....
I don't wish to buy into Redhat's Enterprise Linux because I don't understand what I'm paying for. *I'm* the Redhat support. I just need something that will receive patches and support for more than one year. The 5 year lifespan of the Enterprise versions is nice, but I've NEVER called Redhat for support. I don't plan to.
I also build the kernels for each of the servers. I use vanilla kernel.org 2.4.21 source with additional XFS patches. We sell 2, 4 and 8-way Proliant servers. Am I missing out on anything from the "optimized" Redhat Advanced Server kernels? I downloaded the RHEL 3.0 kernel and looked at the 200+ patches they make to the plain 2.4.21 source. Other than the hyperthreading patch, none of the enhancements will make that much of a difference in my company's application. Would using my stable kernel setup with RHEL negate the purpose of using that OS? Patching XFS on TOP of their already heavily-modified kernel is close to impossible. *
I think it's confusing because we initially chose Redhat for the accountability aspect of having a corporation behind the distro. Now, I'm not sure who they're targeting. I would imagine that most firms that select Redhat Advanced server and are willing to pay the price (>$1000/license) would have a staff talented enough to support it. So why the mandatory support costs from Redhat? It's a bad move because 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 are great matches for our hardware. HP's support for RHAS 2.1 is even a bit spotty (old kernel, etc.), so HP concentrated in supporting 8.0. I'm afraid to recommend RHEL 3.0 for these critical servers because the userbase is going to be tiny, and we'll essentially be flushing-out bugs..... in production. That's not a good situation....
* Sidenote: After looking at Redhat's Enterprise kernel's default.config, I'm surprised that they still enable HAM radio, PCMCIA, ISDN and other rarely-used (at least in the US) functions by default. I mean, I choose to compile my own kernels.... but I'm pretty sure that their target market for RHEL won't bother. Odd.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Support Options and Pricing
Red Hat's Enterprise Linux family of operating systems is available on a per-system, annual subscription basis. The subscriptions are offered in three editions: Basic, Standard, and Premium -- each with varying support levels and delivery options -- so you can choose the subscription combination that best meets the needs of your business.
Final Scratch or a Denon or Pioneer DJ-oriented CD deck would be much better additions to a traditional setup than this toy. Again, this particular product is an example of how corporations are capitalizing on the popularity of DJ culture. It's a shame because it's flooding the market with less-talented, less-experienced DJs.....
I actually get annoyed when I mix with DJs that use Final Scratch. While it's a good idea and well-executed, it's a hassle for the traveling/gigging DJ. Here in the Chicago scene, it's difficult to obtain access to AC power (for your laptop) and inputs into the mixer for the Final Scratch USB unit. Most of these clubs are permanent installations, and this becomes an issue when you have several DJs in the lineup for the night.
I own a Denon DN-S5000 CD unit in addition to my Technics. That's a way to incorporate new technology into your sets. Final Scratch is nice, but doesn't offer the flexibility that a Pioneer or Denon CD deck would allow.
Back when I was DJing in college, my club had a few guest DJs with geek names.... There was a DJ iMac (who used a Blueberry iBook along with turntables....) and DJ SCSI.... Not too bad, though.
Heh... I was slow to adopt the CD thing. I've been mixing for 10 years, but just recently purchased a Denon DN-S5000 CD deck to go with the turntables. See the studio.
This is just the corporate world capitalizing on the popularity of DJ culture. It's a shame, because it simply cheapens it....
Maybe DJ Skribble? I'm not sure where the scratching/turntablist obsession came from. I cringe when people find out that I'm a DJ and make the "wikki-wikki" sound while scratch-gesturing with their hand....
I'm a House DJ though, so it's not as big of a deal in my genre....
Slashdot Mirror
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/briQ/in tro.shtml
You're right. The hp/compaq drivers should be open-source. But the reality is that I need to use them. Maybe this will be a wakeup call for HP/compaq. Red Hat's unpredictability may force them to support more distributions with their drivers....
Try "linux upgradeany" on a test 7.3 box when you get the RHEL CDs. It will allow you to update any version to RHEL.
Since it's the same product as Redhat Enterprise WS/ES, I'd simply build the SRPMS of the updates that are released for Redhat WS/ES once the year subscription is up. My guess is that they won't leave you without an upgrade path to a renewable subscription. Even if they did, buying another box for $99 is less than another $200-$400 yearly subscription fee.
Red Hat Professional Workstation is $99
I'll never understand the Debian-zealots. It's a good distro, but I don't think it's the best match for my hardware situation. If I were running a set of servers on commodity hardware, I'd go that direction, but I have about 100 HP/Compaq Proliant servers that run value-added management software that relies on Redhat. Try installing Debian on a G3 Proliant ML370. It's not optimal.
Yet they still sell a shrinkwrapped box.... They just don't market it. Weird.
The widely-available SRPMS for Enterprise Linux build just fine on Red Hat Professional Workstation, so as long as RHEL 3.0 has updates, the Professional Workstation product will be usable and and have an upgrade path..
The $99 Red Hat Professional Desktop (available from CompUsa, etc.) IS Red Hat Enterprise WS. They didn't even bother to relabel the product. I don't think the EULA is as restrictive as the Enterprise versions, so I bet you can install it on as many machines as you wish. I've also been able to perform in-place upgrades to RHEL from Red Hat 7.3 and Red Hat 8.0.
My original comment from the Q&A article.
Why isn't Red Hat actively marketing their Professional Workstation Product? Apparently, this is a newly-released offering that hasn't been receiving much attention. It's odd, because it's not even displayed prominently on their site.
However, a Google cache of the page shows the relationship of Professional Workstation to the rest of the RHEL line.
The Red Hat Professional Workstation isn't available online, or through Red Hat, but through a few selected retail channels. Buy.com has it for $82.57, which includes one year of up2date service. It's the same product as Red Hat Enterprise Workstation. I purchased it from my local Microcenter for $99. Here's the RPM list.
It looks like this product was a last-minute addition.... Apparently, it's not crippled or relabeled.
Given my previous rants on Slashdot about the Red Hat shadiness, this looks like a good option.
Even more interesting is the fact that Red Hat didn't put much effort into product differentiation with this Professional Workstation product. I opened the box and the CDs were labeled "Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS". Well, only the first CD was labeled as such. The other CDs are identical to the Red Hat Enterprise AS/ES offering and include the same RPMS/SRPMS. SRPMS build cleanly in every test case I tried. So, buying this and using Enterprise 3.0 SRPMS for future updates is entirely possible. The same RHEL patched 2.4.21 kernel is there, too. Nifty.
Another issues that bugged me about the Red Hat Enterprise Linux move was the poor upgrade path. Reinstalling the OS on production servers that are running Red Hat 7.x or 8 ain't pretty. So, my final test with the Professional Workstation was prompted by a half-page paragraph in the manual that came with the box set.... It stated that in-place OS upgrades were only available for Red Hat Enterprise 2.1 -> Red Hat Enterprise 3.0 systems (via "linux update" at boot)...... however, you have the option of booting the install CD with "linux updateany" to relax the restriction "in case your /etc/issue file is damaged". Hmm.... No version-checking, eh? So I performed a test in-place upgrade on an existing Red Hat 8.0-equipped Proliant server...... It totally worked without a hitch!
This, along with the education and bulk-pricing deals leads me to believe that the Red Hat marketing department is working hard to appeal to the people it alienated with its announcements over the past few weeks. But it may not be enough. How can enyone plan for the future when Red Hat seems to be a moving target? We'll see what happens come December 31.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=85998&cid=748
It's about the Redhat Professional Workstation (not Enterprise WS) box set that is being sold in the major retail outlets. It's the same thing as Enterprise Linux WS.... the CDs even say so. I've found that it does provide an upgrade path to the legacy versions. Check out the link.
However, a Google cache of the page shows the relationship of Professional Workstation to the rest of the RHEL line.
The Red Hat Professional Workstation isn't available online, or through Red Hat, but through a few selected retail channels. Buy.com has it for $82.57, which includes one year of up2date service. It's the same product as Red Hat Enterprise Workstation. I purchased it from my local Microcenter for $99. Here's the RPM list.
It looks like this product was a last-minute addition.... Apparently, it's not crippled or relabeled.
Given my previous rants on Slashdot about the Red Hat shadiness, this looks like a good option.
Even more interesting is the fact that Red Hat didn't put much effort into product differentiation with this Professional Workstation product. I opened the box and the CDs were labeled "Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS". Well, only the first CD was labeled as such. The other CDs are identical to the Red Hat Enterprise AS/ES offering and include the same RPMS/SRPMS. SRPMS build cleanly in every test case I tried. So, buying this and using Enterprise 3.0 SRPMS for future updates is entirely possible. The same RHEL patched 2.4.21 kernel is there, too. Nifty.
Another issues that bugged me about the Red Hat Enterprise Linux move was the poor upgrade path. Reinstalling the OS on production servers that are running Red Hat 7.x or 8 ain't pretty. So, my final test with the Professional Workstation was prompted by a half-page paragraph in the manual that came with the box set.... It stated that in-place OS upgrades were only available for Red Hat Enterprise 2.1 -> Red Hat Enterprise 3.0 systems (via "linux update" at boot)...... however, you have the option of booting the install CD with "linux updateany" to relax the restriction "in case your /etc/issue file is damaged". Hmm.... No version-checking, eh? So I performed a test in-place upgrade on an existing Red Hat 8.0-equipped Proliant server...... It totally worked without a hitch!
This, along with the education and bulk-pricing deals leads me to believe that the Red Hat marketing department is working hard to appeal to the people it alienated with its announcements over the past few weeks. We'll see what happens come December 31.
I think this was a last-ditch effort to fill the void. Good move on Red Hat's part.
I think it was a last-minute offering. See my other post at:7 033
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=85638&cid=746
However, a Google cache of the page shows the relationship of Professional Workstation to the rest of the RHEL line.
The Red Hat Professional Workstation isn't available online, or through Red Hat, but through a few selected retail channels. Buy.com has it for $82.57, which includes one year of up2date service. According to the various Red Hat lists, it's the same product as Red Hat Enterprise Workstation. Here's the RPM list.
It looks like this product was a last-minute addition.... I recall someone on the Red Hat list mentioning that he received RH WS CDs when he bought the product. Apparently, it's not crippled or relabeled.
Given my previous rants on Slashdot about the Red Hat shadiness, this looks like a good option.
I'm doing the same thing.... multiplied by 60.
See: my comment on this
Now, I have 100+ Linux servers around the country, and a stream of new customers. I've frozen new deployments at Redhat 8.0 because 9 didn't allow me to use the HP/Compaq-specific hardware agents/drivers. So, we've everything from 7.0 through 8.0 in the field. Over the past few months, Redhat dropped up2date support and patches for Redhat 7.0. I feel guilty installing 8.0 on new boxes because I know support for it will be dropped at the end of the year. By Dec. 31, all of my systems will be "unsupported." This looks awful because we're starting to get more corporate customers, and I've receiving calls from their CTO's like, "wait, we want to make sure you'll be installing a SUPPORTED version of Linux if we buy your application." Grrr....
I don't wish to buy into Redhat's Enterprise Linux because I don't understand what I'm paying for. *I'm* the Redhat support. I just need something that will receive patches and support for more than one year. The 5 year lifespan of the Enterprise versions is nice, but I've NEVER called Redhat for support. I don't plan to.
I also build the kernels for each of the servers. I use vanilla kernel.org 2.4.21 source with additional XFS patches. We sell 2, 4 and 8-way Proliant servers. Am I missing out on anything from the "optimized" Redhat Advanced Server kernels? I downloaded the RHEL 3.0 kernel and looked at the 200+ patches they make to the plain 2.4.21 source. Other than the hyperthreading patch, none of the enhancements will make that much of a difference in my company's application. Would using my stable kernel setup with RHEL negate the purpose of using that OS? Patching XFS on TOP of their already heavily-modified kernel is close to impossible. *
I think it's confusing because we initially chose Redhat for the accountability aspect of having a corporation behind the distro. Now, I'm not sure who they're targeting. I would imagine that most firms that select Redhat Advanced server and are willing to pay the price (>$1000/license) would have a staff talented enough to support it. So why the mandatory support costs from Redhat? It's a bad move because 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 are great matches for our hardware. HP's support for RHAS 2.1 is even a bit spotty (old kernel, etc.), so HP concentrated in supporting 8.0. I'm afraid to recommend RHEL 3.0 for these critical servers because the userbase is going to be tiny, and we'll essentially be flushing-out bugs..... in production. That's not a good situation.... * Sidenote: After looking at Redhat's Enterprise kernel's default .config, I'm surprised that they still enable HAM radio, PCMCIA, ISDN and other rarely-used (at least in the US) functions by default. I mean, I choose to compile my own kernels.... but I'm pretty sure that their target market for RHEL won't bother. Odd.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Support Options and Pricing
Red Hat's Enterprise Linux family of operating systems is available on a per-system, annual subscription basis. The subscriptions are offered in three editions: Basic, Standard, and Premium -- each with varying support levels and delivery options -- so you can choose the subscription combination that best meets the needs of your business.
But you still have to reinstall..... That's not a pretty upgrade path for most users.
Asshole....
The real stuff....
I own a Denon DN-S5000 CD unit in addition to my Technics. That's a way to incorporate new technology into your sets. Final Scratch is nice, but doesn't offer the flexibility that a Pioneer or Denon CD deck would allow.
Check out the mixes....
Back when I was DJing in college, my club had a few guest DJs with geek names.... There was a DJ iMac (who used a Blueberry iBook along with turntables....) and DJ SCSI.... Not too bad, though.
This is just the corporate world capitalizing on the popularity of DJ culture. It's a shame, because it simply cheapens it....
I'm a House DJ though, so it's not as big of a deal in my genre....
Check out my mixes...