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Low Powered Mini-Server for the Masses
ServerSam writes "Sudhian has a review up on EmergeCore's "IT in a Box" IT100. Designed for small business use, it comes equipped with a Transmeta Crusoe 533MHz, 128MB RAM, 20GB IBM TravelStar, 802.11b Access Point, and boots from a 32MB Flash card. The IT100 is powered by a 60 watt external PSU and is smaller than a PS2."
... i dont trust reviewers who have those god awful 'mini' 'cube' PCs as their workstation!
Still, a nice light bit of hardware, i must say. Hats off, even if it's weak.
"Transmeta Crusoe 533MHz, 128MB RAM, 20GB IBM TravelStar, 802.11b Access Point, and boots from a 32MB Flash card."
I think my Cisco router has more behind it...
That sound you hear is the sound of you having failed it.
Suckah.
EmergeCore's IT100 runs Linux, but you will never notice as all the server configuration is done through a well designed web interface, called "CoreVista."
So they have it run Linux but behind a "web interface". I don't get it -- what's wrong with a user interface?
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
I guess that rules out using it as a web server...
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!
Must be using one of those portable server thingies.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Other than size, I think one of those $199 Walmart Microtel machines would be a better deal...they now have 1300MHz Durons in them. They are a bit skimpy on memory (come with 128MB), but you can buy 512MB of the SDR stuff they use for $50 these days. I have a bunch of them, and they've been flawless!
...they're using it to run their web site.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Yes, you can use Linux and other "free" operating systems, but the concept of Linux, and it's "unaccountability" scares most small business owners
... because as we all know Microsoft or Apple are completly "accountable" for any errors or damage there OS causes...
Yes
Anyone recognize the niche as that of Cobalt, before Sun took them over? Did those do well enough that this can be popular?
Unfortunately, as an operator of a Cobalt RaQ for many years, I found it to be very limiting once we did figure out how to really use it and how little the custom interfaces allowed, but it was great for people who just wouldn't learn that stuff.
I hope no one thinks these are patch-proof though,. Our Cobalt needed patches and even with them had trouble avoiding a few compromises since patches were so delayed. Now it runs Debian and I couldn't be happier with the little box.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
Funny how PS2 doesn't mean what it used to.
Like, say, from /. for example?
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
A beowolf cluster of these!
[Posted AC to encougage Karma growth]
$1395?! Why not just buy a laptop? Or two? It would be (much!) faster, similarly power efficient with an external power supply, could likely boot from CF, could act as an AP, would even have an integrated diplay for debugging... and MUCH more. C'mon folks -- I was hoping something like this would go for $400, not $1400!
until i realized i didn't have the money, i was going to build a mini-itx system to serve nfs, do NAT, pppoe, serve ssh into my local network, and some other things. i had everything planned out, just no money.. :(
I write code.
Sounds like it might be what I've been looking for. I've been wanting to "build" (or buy) a small e-mail server. I just don't like the idea of running a complete PC based Linux Server just for e-mail for myself. Waste of power consumption, big foot print, etc.. I'd like something about the size of my cable modem that uses very little power. I have been look at these. Anyone know of any other ideas?
$1400.. I'll build my own mini tower or go out and buy something much more powerful... like a 2.2GHz w/ 1gig
The things people get ripped off with these days.
Details are available on their forum.
:)
Link here to the Sudhian Forum.
If the current state of their server is any indication of this thing's performance, its sad
Most everything is smaller then a PS/2. I remember learning on those things many years ago; they're all big and clunky. I wonder why the OP is comparing it to that...
I believe that they are all members of the Borg collective just waiting to have critical mass to assimilate us all...
If you just put on a tinfoil hat, you too will see the real conspiracy. The Borgs have brain altering waves to make you trust them...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
Without at least RAID 1 (mirrored drives) I never consider a hardware device a server. A PC running backend applications with no redundancy is a bad idea in a busy business.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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The noise level and power usage are also key for this machine. Of course, there are other fanless machines, many of them much cheaper than this one. (Note: Not all of the machines at that site are fanless, but many are, check out the Tranquil PC and the Hush). (Also Note: Fanless doesn't equal silent, you still get drive noise and monitor whine, unless you replace those with solid state components)
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Steve Jobs worked for Transmeta?
... yes ...... no
Gay's Health
Transmeta
The one in ask slashdot, and in macslash asking the smae question. Of course, it'd be good if they removed the hard drive, used the compact flash to nfs boot it, etc.
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
I didnt see any mention of available source on the website (just made a quick look though, maybe I missed it?)
Does it come with a cd or info on how to obtain it?
Sure, I know that not everyone can build his own box and load it with Linux. But for this money, I'm thinking you could do pretty well with a Duron, a couple of ATA 133 drives, and a cheap 1U box. If you can run a web interface such as the one described here, you probably could do alright with Webmin, too. And think how much more useful and trustworth a thing you'd have.
Ah, well - - aren't the do-it-yourselfers among us lucky?
It's only funny until someone gets hurt. Then, it's hilarious.
A 10-day marathon!
God I should be shot for that...
"You tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson is...never try. Heh!" -Homer
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/briQ/in tro.shtml
Edmund White
http://flickr.com/ewwhite
does it have parrallel and serial ports. All you need is DVI-I , 4+ USB (keyboard, mouse + peripherals), WiFi, ethernet, Speaker ports, and possibly a TV-in (cos you'd want to run mythTV on it, right?).
Also, its a bit light on disk space. It doesnt really need the CF card (although its a cheap enough way to do a bios I suppose).
**TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
I thought cooling, data transfer rates and reliability (redundant PSU's etc) were the main considerations. Processor speed and storage capacity are definitely up there as well.
But Size?
I don't understand
You stupid asshole. Please apply here. Don't forget to check the 'lifelong' box!
Gee... I love coldfusion!! ;)
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I like the looks of the thing. However I think they've missed the boat on selling these things.
If they had made it so it was easy to hack whatever linux distro you wanted onto it and MUCH more affordable they might of had a shot at selling a ton of them.
As it is you could build a Mini-ITX system and jam a 4 port switch into the case and have a nicer setup than this.
"Average intelligence is pretty damn stupid"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
how 'bout trying this simple formula:
study more -- troll on Slashdot less.
I know it sounds wacky... but do us all a favor and try it.
I believe the Netwinder servers are still available and by now are probably a more mature product. Plus I believe they are in an even smaller case. See www.netwinder.net
A system with only 128MB or RAM is NOT a server in today's world. Ten years ago maybe but not today.
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
if SCO had switched to one of these babies for their web site?
$500 for something similar, I suppose, but didn't read the manufacturer's specs because there site is down.
What matters is that most people who make business decisions to use commercial software believe that the vendor is liable
They also believe, or at least behave according to, the old chestnut "no one ever got fired for buying IBM" (substitute well known brand in any technology realted field for "IBM" to adapt this to any category). Those in large organizations don't want to take risks that will jeopardize their careers, but at least they are more likely to have IT departments to make recommendations. In small organizations, there is neither the in-house expertise nor often the willingness to spend on outside advice. While they may not know just how little they know, they calculate risk on the basis of what little they do know and they know the Apple and Mircrosoft brands.
I've finally got around to changing my sig
Hopefully the miniserver doesn't happen to have a MySQL backend. Judging by the problems the company's website is having handling the number of MySQL client requests I think perhaps an eMachines bladeserver might be the way to go.
Think about it:
1.) It includes 802.llb. How strange. Does anybody really feel a wireless server is a good thing? With 5 or 6 clients on an 802.llb network, things other than simple, tiny file transfers are going to start to slow down alot.
2.) Crusoe Processor - I mean, why not a celeron? Heat issues? Power consumption? Why use a processor intended for mobile applications in a server??
3.) The price - this thing should not break a grand. I work at a fairly major (Fortune 1000) computer reseller, and If I had a small office customer call me looking for an inexpensive server, I could sell them an IBM X series 205 for $769. It has a P4 2.4 GHZ and 256 megs of RAM. Its an honest to god server class machine.
Unless you have 8 guys with notebooks that travel and need a traveling server, what is the point of this? And for the price, if you did have those 8 guys, you could jsut have a 9th notebook, and have better specs, AND be battery powered.
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!
Looks very cool, but I don't understand the need for CF card for booting. I can understand if you used a read-only medium to boot from, but this has a hard disk. Is there something in the architecture that creates this need?
And look, it's running full screen my 2.53 p4 in the house!
'course, you can't see the p4 if I took a picture.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Why would someone use this rather than buying hosting from someone else? Obviously there are advantages to hosting your own site, but I don't think this machine particularly exposes them. Is the idea for momandpop.com to serve their site over their cablemodem or business DSL connection using this thing? They'd be much better off buying their hosting from someone else.
If bigwebdevcompany.com needs a dumb, low-powered web server they'd save a lot of money with a trip to walmart and a set of linux ISOs. I just don't see where this enters the market as a useful tool.
Way over priced...
For $1300 I can buy (not build) at least 2 if not 3 significantly more powerful boxes. I can't figure their target market with this thing. Unless it's sill corporate purchasing agents with to much money, no sense, and think it's cute...
Why SHIFT ; UNSHIFT w q SHIFT ! UNSHIFT ENTER
instead of SHIFT z z UNSHIFT ENTER
?
Sounds like a waste of keystrokes to me... ;)
You hit the nail on the head. I think the "I can do it cheaper, or better hardware" crowd is missing the point of "appliances". First I doubt that without lots of expertise, most geeks could come up with a good net appliance (if they could, then why are our regular interfaces so bad, and why aren't you guys running your own business?). Second the "cost" isn't so much for the hardware, but the simplification of the machine (not just the interface, but all the other aspects that go into a desirable machine) for the intended audiance (the one's who are not geeks). Hell, even geeks sometimes get tired of tinkering, and want something that "just works" (Macs anyone?). Now as a geek I'm waiting for the "Blade Servers for the masses". :)
Buy lot's of Ramen noodles. If geeks can do so much with $1100.00 then they wouldn't be out on the unemployment line, and they would have their own line of "net appliances" for the masses to purchase.
Funny how reality doesn't agree. Guess it isn't as easy as people think to come up with a desirable product that can accomodate the masses, as witness by the fact that we still haven't cracked the desktop market in any significent way.
Granted, it is a Compaq Contura laptop, but I thought that Transmeta systems were supposed to be conservative on power?!
A low power, affordable server has been long overdue for both the enthusiast and small business markets. EmergeCore's "IT in a Box" performs most of the major functions of a standard Windows Domain Controller, at a fraction of the cost, and one-tenth the size.
Most businesses in the world fall under the category of "small businesses". Small businesses have IT needs as well and most small businesses cannot afford to throw thousands of dollars at licensing for their network design and support. Yes, you can use Linux and other "free" operating systems, but the concept of Linux, and it's "unaccountability" scares most small business owners, especially when the owner may be the only IT department they have. If a small business owner is brave enough to run a Linux setup, he will often pay more for service/support of his Linux network in time if not also in cold, hard cash. EmergeCore's IT100 runs Linux, but you will never notice as all the server configuration is done through a well designed web interface, called "CoreVista."
Sudhian was approached last month by Dave Brown, President/CEO, and Keith Murphy, Director of Sales and Marketing, of the Boise, Idaho-based company EmergeCore. After meeting with Dave and Keith, I had the sense that they had stolen some of my brainwaves while I was sleeping. You see, I have been yearning for a small, low power, and silent server for my home for almost a year, and I could never find anything that totally satisfied me. I looked at the Via EPIA systems, but I could never find the style of case I was looking for. Hush systems were gorgeous, but not what I needed for this project. I wanted to keep it simple: give me a hard drive, processor, external PSU, and quick and dirty WiFi setup. The IT100 did it all at a cost of $1,395.
At first glance, the size of the IT100 will surprise you, but a server that is smaller than a Playstation 2 will do that to some people. Crammed inside this little box, you will find the following:
Transmeta Crusoe TM5600 533MHz
128MB SDRAM
2.5" IDE HDD 20GB
32MB Compact Flash (used for booting the system in conjunction with the hard drive)
4-port 10/100 Hub/Switch
Wireless AP 802.11b
External PSU 60W/12V
2x USB 1.1 ports
Parallel port
Serial port
9.84" x 9.6" x 2.24"
One of the beauties of the IT100 is the fan-less setup. Transmeta processors are designed to run at low power and low heat, and running the server for a month straight showed no heat problems and made absolutely no noise. The IT100 is designed for small businesses, but it's easy to see the niche it could occupy in the enthusiast market.
You can use the IT100 as a network gateway or as a server node; however, it is designed to fill both roles simultaneously. We will breakdown the features essential for any small business or home network using the IT100 as a gateway.
DHCP
The IT100 works as a DHCP server and will run two separate subnets, one for LAN and one for WLAN.
WAN Connectivity
The WAN connection can be configured as a PPPoE connection, static IP addresses, or it also receive a dynamic IP address. In addition, you can assign specific MAC addresses with static IP addresses, or you can use that same MAC address to filter out unwanted traffic.
Firewall
The IT100 comes with an easy to setup firewall. The Basic Mode (Low, Medium, and High) and Advanced Mode allow any level administrator to feel comfortable configuring an often confusing setting. If the administrator wanted to block all traffic, with the exception of a few ports, he is fully capable of doing so with either the Advanced Mode or the High setting in the Basic Mode. The Medium setting will block the majority of traffic, while letting server side services run (e-mail, web services, etc.) which cannot be run in High mode. The Low setting only blocks file sharing and proxy from the outside, but is the only Basic Mode setting with which you are able to run the VPN service.
NAT
The IT100 performs Network Addre
How Jaded Are You?
I built a computer custom with the following specs: Athlon mobo w/ Nvidia chipset Athlon XP 2500+ 350w PSU 512MB PC2100 DDR RAM 40GB Maxtor 7200rpm drive ATI 128MB video card ..all for $450. These specs blow away the ones of the 'mini-server'. Why would I pay 3x as much for wimpier h/w?
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Here.
How Jaded Are You?
I run a headless embedded server at my house, which uses 4 Watts of power (verified with my Kill-O-Watt meter). It has less processing power (equivalent to a Pentium 133MHz)
I purchased the device from embeddedx86.com. The model is TS-5400. You can see a picture of my finished server here and here. (It's in a boring-as-hell grey box... with a CD next to it for comparison - it's to the left of the access point)
It runs Apache (with PHP extensions), NAT masquerading, and provided me with a great introduction to embedded systems (it's architecture is almost identical to standard x86, so it's an easy starting point). Even though it's much less powerful than the transmeta powered box in the article, you can still do a lot of useful stuff with it!
Some people masturbate to the low power theory. I suppose someone could say, "Well it uses less electricity for fuck's sake!"
But you're absolutely correct -- it's a god damn sham. You could use that huge disparity in price to purchase green power (like wind) from your electric company and do a hell of a lot more for the world than waste money on some crappy little computer.
Is this slashdot or PR Newswire, anyway? I can't tell the two apart anymore. I know one has an abortion of HTML code and garish graphics, but as far as content, I don't know anymore.
RAID 1 does nothing for filesystem corruption. For this you need backups. Either way, you get downtime. RAID1 is an illusion of safety that isn't really there.
So I can get a tiny underpowered computer for $1395. Big deal. I can get a better computer for a lot less (even if I shell out a little extra for one of those small cube cases and M.B.) And at that price this toy is underpowered in every way, including hard drive space and memory. And a real computer will be less expensive in the long run, even after it's expected life this toy's power savings doesn't come close to justifying the price. Who can it be aimed at? The individual isn't gong to pay this and needs more anyway (or thinks he needs, if he thinks he needs a server at all), and can likely spare the space a single small format PC would take up as well as this. No large cluster of these is likely to be built (certainly not at this price), people who need lots of servers because of space will use Blade systems (and Google will continue to prove these are other low cost but amazingly functional approaches).
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
And not the current intel style one - which is just a file/webserver.
I want to be able to browse a SuperPDA webapp all on one small wearable computer.
Other than to aimlessly bitch, what's the point? So what? Would you be happy if it was PHP's error page? Would that please you?
Let's look at this from another angle. Have you ever designed an "appliance" for the "masses"? Do you know that is more than just the hardware, or just the software, but how the whole comes together. Your a geek so I don't expect you to know how the "masses" think.[1] But "appliances" is were things are heading because the "promises" of regular PC's have failed to materialize. People want to use their "tools" to get the "job" done. [1] Alan Cooper: The inmates are running the asylum covers this so much better.
Yeah, it's expensive, and the typical slashdotter could do it cheaper with Open Source. The average small business can't, and will pay more for convenience. The real explosion will come as prices drop, and these features roll into your cable modem. My cable company already offers no-brainer wireless for a 'mere' $14/month. Within a year, I'll bet they offer data storage and some of these other features as well.
Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
Does anyone remember the Rebel Netwinder? That was cooler than this but they still went bust.
Too much work for you? Go to geeks.com and pick up some refurb'd HP desktops for $500 each, with 17" monitors, CDRW, DVD-ROM, 120-160GB disks, keyboard, mouse, fucken speakers fer chrissakes... and a ~2.2 GHz celery chip.
The fact is that the vast majority of people have space to put a full size computer for a server. It's only in very unusual environments where space matters so much that your only server must be smaller than a shoebox. Aside from such special cases, assuming anyone buys this device, it will mostly be people who don't understand computers, and think it looks really neat.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
[From the article:] I was very pleased with the overall performance of the IT100, and would ask that anyone interested in this server not get hung up on the specs.[...]Too often people get caught up in the hype of Dual Xeon or Dual A64 servers, when the truth of the matter is that you do not need that kind of power to run a simple e-mail server and share files.
Couldn't agree more. I understand that less is more, but *WHY* does it have to be more expensive than a similar laptop? Can't you get a discount for a system that's essentially stripped from all user interfaces?
--
Good marketing beats good engineering
I've setup $550 SnapServer NAS devices for a few small offices. They have built-in remote access and are very secure: They run a stripped down Unix that only allows Java apps to execute.
Of course, that only functions to serve files, but it works very reliably.
To have work more than a year and a half with coldfusion supporting dumbass programmers creating code that gave those location code : 26 many times per day and having to restart the whole service because it affected all other web pages because coldfusion couldn't handle loops, yes I would have prefer to have a PHP error page!
Actually I think it's you who doesn't understand. If your combination is as good as you think it is, then why aren't you out here selling it to the masses? As I've repeatedly pointed out, these are for the masses, and what you've concocted is for geeks. GEEKS, not MASSES. When you've come up with something that is for the masses AND can beat what the mentioned company has come up with, then you'll understand.
i Dont see why this one would survive any better than the Toshiba Magnia SG20 Internet Appliance Server. Orginaly selling for close to $1500, now can be found $199.
As a small business there might be a handful of modern boxes in the office/home to be used for word processing and accounting (maybe dozens in a larger small business ... but that's getting to be medium or large business ... but I digress). So why would this particular tiny box be useful?
... as I've found out :) Plus, the small size of the IT-100 means it could easily be accidentally brushed off the corner of a desk thus adding new meaning to the phrase "The server is down.".
Cost: Well instead of buying a handful of modern boxen, buy some cheaper, slower models (800-900 Mhz) and with the money saved buy a nice high powered (+1.8 Ghz) box dedicated to the purpose of the "server in a box". And when time comes to upgrade you still have a useful computer vice an old useless mini-server (only hackers/geeks can put those easily into service).
Power Consumption: 60 watts is small compared to 300 watts. But where is this a constraint except in a third world country (where you can't afford the 1300US$ for a power miser anyways.)
Footprint: Without a monitor, your standard boxen-as-server can sit in a corner or closet or under a plant stand (with proper precautions
So what is this thing offering? Nothing but a sexy desk ornament that a lava lamp would beat hands down anyways.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
The author of the article is named Stoner :)
You can buy a MUCH powerfull server from EMachines or Dell, Load it with Debian, Mandrake or Fedora and have all the services (and more) for free.
Need a web server: Apache
Need mail: Sendmail or Postfix
Need firewall: Netfilter with FWBuilder
Need a proxy: Squid
Need Windows fileserver: SAMBA
Need Unix fileserver: NFS (with NIS)
Need backup: Amanda
Need an IDS: Snort
The lisk can keep going....
Sorry, but the price is too high for whay they offer. Even on E-Bay you can find more powerfull servers for less.
JV.
Jose Vicente Nunez Zuleta RHCE, SJCD, SJCP
From the specs list:
4-port 10/100 Hub/Switch
So which is it?? A hub? A switch? Or is it 4 NICs? Notice they don't list a NIC, just this hub/switch thing unless you count the built in 802.11b. So is THAT its link to the network? Obviously it would be nuts to incorporate a standalone hub (or switch) in the back of the thing without a NIC of its own except wireless, BUT that's the way the specs page reads! Someone needs to do a common sense proofread.
"Smaller, faster, QUIETER. That is the future."
With a 533 Crusoe CPU, where do you see Faster at?
And I'll take my dinasaur steel frame mechanical AT keyboard over your El Cheapo membrane "smaller faster quieter" keyboards anyday. Sometimes newer isn't neccessarily better.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I know it's a tangent, but since you brought it up...are games the last remaining use for CRTs? I'm currently shopping for a new monitor, and that's one of the questions I'm asking myself. My other thoughts were:
- CRT's support multiple resolutions (i.e., don't LCD's have a fixed resolution?)
- CRT's support higher resolutions than LCDs
- Do CRT's provide better color accuracy?
- (LCD's are currently more expensive, but that's changing quickly so I'm trying to focus on technical differences...)
Your monitor is staring at you.
Show me an LCD that I can afford, see without being 3" away from it at a decent resolution, and can do ALL of my tasks, and I'll buy it.
* By the way, CRT's do have there uses in high speed games (Quake) but other than that they just burn your retinas.
Speaking of legacy garbage from the 90's (which I still love, BTW)...
So if you have an LCD and need to play Quake, what do you do? Own both a CRT and and LCD? Talk about waste. And you know what I hate? People who can't get there/their/they're and your/you're straight, even though all it takes is learning simple English rules.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Running their site with one... ./ v Crusoe
I have a plan. Using mainly spoons, we'll tunnel our way out of the city...
I think Transmeta offering mini-itx boards with their processors could make the market for small-size devices quite interesting. I'm curious how well Crusoe/other Transmeta chips perform against the VIA parts with a similar clock frequency. . .
Since they are low power parts that require minimal cooling, it seems almost obvious to me as an opportunity to compete (from my "50,000 foot" viewpoint).
Why so surprised? It's the same reason that prepared foods cost more than you buying the raw materials and cooking them yourself[1]. The fast food industry is based on that principle.
[1] And you'll note that you get more by going the "buy and do yourself" route for the same amount of money. So why aren't more people outraged by that, instead of complaining about a product that serves a MASS need?
Gee I guess it must all be about marketing, instead of the fact that we all have different priorities.
Single powersupply.. single drive..
It might look pretty and be small/quiet, but id not trust using it in a real business, even a small office...
Unless of course you bought 2 and had them mirrored... but that blows its 'cuteness'.
Say waht yo uwill baout the 'old monster' servers, but when your drive dies on one of these things you will wish you had raid5...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
to have dual 60GBs and built-in CSU/DSU
Dont ask me. I just forward de info.
Can anyone offer any explanation why it has a flash card in addition to the hard disk?
:-)
The article says:
32MB Compact Flash (used for booting the system in conjunction with the hard drive)
The only thing I can think of is decreasing the boot time.
I'm genuinely soliciting comments here. My mind is boggled. (Doesn't take much
-Peter
For something that bills itself as a "mini-server," I'd hope that it's smaller than a PS/2...wouldn't make much sense if it was larger.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Several folks here have been saying there are better deals in fanless, small servers. What are they? Where would you get them/the parts?
Thanks!
This thing draws about as much power as a single light bulb. Sure, you can find more powerful servers for less money, but those high powered servers will cost four to five times as much power to run.
But,obviously, one of the courses he's failing is "CS0002 - Remedial slashdot trolling"!
Does that computer act as an 802.11b access point? As a four port switch? Have a single, easy to use web interface for configuring the VPN, Routing, Switching, NAT, DCHP, and firewall which the machine provides?
I think that, as usual, the summary was way off on what this product actually is. It is not supposed to be the replacement for the fileserver on your network, it is supposed to replace a bunch of network infrastructure boxes. Now, one of the reviews shamelessly stolen from another post suggests it is not terribly effective at carrying out those tasks (perhaps unsurprisingly), but it seems like it would be quite a valid solution for a small business which can't support any full-time on-location IT staff.
Firstly, disregard all of the useless comments about "it's not fast enough", these come from techie speed freaks who ignore the economics in favour of the sports-car. Most businesses don't want nor need sports-cars.
I have a mini-itx at 500mhz running BSD: it handles 512K dsl + bluetooth + 802.11b+ + samba + nat + firewall + print server + http + everything else quite well - most of the time it idles at 10% CPU. Sure I could use an overblown 576ghz-latest-pentium, but it's just simply not necessary. Power consumption is also low. It's a perfect home server. Kernel build times are pretty good as well. It also hosts development environments for 4 web sites.
I could have have purchased a fast machine, but what's the point ? I have a 2ghz desktop for power-use. In fact, I now wish that I'd gone for a smaller form factor. Even the mini-itx is too big: looks like a DVD player. PC/104 or smaller form factor would be perfect.
Also, ignore the comments about "price": sure you could get a cheaper and faster commodity pc: but then you have to pay for the techie to install and configure the OS and enable everything else. What this appliance is offering is an out-of-the box solution, and you definitely pay for the added value. They're not in business to give things away
... or get respect from management.
/.'ed already.
Sure, you say you can build one of those servers for our enterprise for $300 less. That's great, Bob!
And when you factor in the 10 hours it took you to order all the parts, troubleshoot everything, make sure there were no hardware incompatibilities...
multiply that number of hours by your fully loaded salary costs (i.e., double your salary to see what you really cost your business per hour).
What? Buying it ready made is cheaper? Gosh, I'm so surprised!!
And no, I couldn't RTFA, it was
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
You can still get a Netwinder with approximately the same specs (including web-based server configuration software) for $899. It has three NICs built-in as well.
http://www.netwinder.net/
what about the ol' spud server?
though it seems it's down at the moment....it's VERY low powered.
It seems that most of you people really don't understand what this box is for. Are you a nerd like most of the people here? Then this box isn't for you. It's marketed for a small-medium business that doesn't have, or doesn't want to have to use an IT professional.
The entire purpose of the box is to be easy to use for people. It has quite a few features considering the cpu and what not that it has.
If you are going to bitch these guys out for something, at least make it for them including frontpage extensions on a linux box. That should be a sin in itself.
That may be a fine excuse for people at large, or even medium, companies buying software or hardware from [fill in the blank], it doesn't explain why small business owners use PCs. It's not about getting fired - after all they own the business - it's about keeping the business running without getting lost on side issues.
Apple just put out a story about Sullivan Street Bakery chose to switch (back) to Macs. The reason they switched is one of the owners preferred Macs, had done FileMaker work in a prior career, and they were not satisifed with the PC software they used (and the monthly maintenance fee).
My experience is that small business owners are pretty pragmatic. If the cost of the solution is low enough and the advantages high enough (the applications are there), they will pick the software and hardware platform that works best. Macs have pretty low switching cost. There are thousands of small computer consulting firms ready to pitch Windows solutions. Linux is still hard for non-techies. It's not common to find places to purchase a machine preconfigured with Linux and some reasonable apps; Macs and PCs often come with almost everything they need (perhaps requiring a couple of easy to install applications).
I work with a small non-profit, which is finally converting to Linux this year. First barrier was a Windows server with hosting service had been donated. That barrier went down when the donation of hosting stopped and the expensive monthly fee kicked in. Second barrier was a boatload of ASP pages that had been donated by a local Windows consulting fir, That barrier went down when the lack of licenses for the tools made it impossible to keep the updates going; we switched to JSP running on Windows. The final barrier came down when we found a donor to host the 30-odd web sites that we were hosting for clients. The move is happening this month; it's my Christmas vacation project.
Here's what I think is needed to get small businesses on Linux:
If however, you are looking for an 'out of the box solution', then the extra 600 or so is well worth it. I didn't see where it said what OS this little device is running. Does anyone know? Is it possible to install another OS on this little thing? I'd imagine that it is possible, since it is a flash card. This will be real nice when they sell for $400 a pop. Then everyone can have one at home even.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Considering I had an uptime of 120+ days on mine, I think you don't know wtf you are talking about.
Toshiba Magnia SG20 Appliance Server These are all over Fleabay for about $200-300 bucks. Runs RH 7.3 and supports WiFi. Can also do NAS so you have the whole show in 1 easy to fail,,,,,,, errrr use box. If you really want to spend more do a Froogle search, you can find them for anywhere from 600-2,000 bucks!
I don't think a 20 Gig hardrive is adequate for any file server even if it was to be used by only one person who doesn't store video or music. How much of that is already used by the OS and pre-installed applications?
$1395? no way. shiney tiny box too much geld.
How about $300?
Also using a laptop drive in a server worries me. Laptop drives are notoriously unreliable.
If you leave a laptop HDD powered and writing more than 20% duty cycle (like a server...) the MTBF decreases significantly. I won't be buying one.
"I threw up my hands in disgust and wondered if it had been such a good idea to have eaten my hands in the first place."
In our server room, which, admittedly, is a tad cluttered, we once discovered a Windows 3.1/486DX-66 box that had been running for at least one year, and probably longer, without a reboot. No load of any kind on it, of course. The thing is, uptime isn't what makes a server a server. And even if it were, 120 days wouldn't be impressive in the least. If you put your confidence in such toys as this, more power to you. I hate seeing consumers - - like my dad, for instance - - being sold a "server" and all the things that word implies, when what they're really getting is a scrawny appliance with no fault tolerance. People who know better won't buy them. People that don't won't take a chance on that kind of money. Get it down to $400, say, and we might see what kinds of things we could do with it.
It's only funny until someone gets hurt. Then, it's hilarious.
Their page says, the IT-100 can be administered with minimal networking knowledge
Translation: People will believe they can Admin networks with this thing, the same way that they believed they could *create* database apps with M$ Access. Instead, they end up an incomplete pile of crap that has no more functionality than a collection of spreadsheets.
(Just for the record, if you're required to use M$ only, Access can be used to develop good database apps, if you know databases.)
Yes, they'll have a network. Will it be efficient and secure? Probably not. Without the underlying knowledge of how a network is supposed to be run you're just asking for problems. Of course, then they'll just hire a real Network Admin and be forever greatful for being saved from themselves.
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
Someone else got my product to market first.
While the performance freaks have been griping about the specs on the box, the thing that concerned me the most was the firewall settings. They have some canned configs of low/medium/high security, but a VPN connection can only work with the low setting. Be sure to encrypt your traffic, but have the box easily hackable.....
Intuit explicity guarantees that you'll get the right results with the correct input.
Liability is a tricky thing. Is Adobe liable if a potential customer can't open your PDF and you get tossed out of a contract bid as a result? Tough question and I'm not certain which way I want to go with that. For the time being, my own customers aren't guaranteed anything, but I've flown cross country on two hours notice in order to get a system up and working.
Theres already a device like this out and Ive got one- Toshiba Magnia. Check on Ebay- I got mine New in sealed box for $170! Its a 533 mhz, low power (90w internal), and a bit larger. It has most of the same software features using arctus security linux, 7 ethernet ports and a crossover port for expantion, 2 laptop :( hard drives-(mine came with one 20gb but the top of the line has two 40's) (it also has a mirror hard drives function). Wireless is not built in but it has a pcmcia slot for that purpose. Also it has no USB ports.
I dont do meaning of life questions.
This one is more expensive and is more power hungry than a briQ . But it is a x86 architecture while the briQ is based on the PowerPC so for people more confident with the x86 architecture it might be a better deal.
Dont forget if your raid controller freaks, it may blow the entire array.. and it DOES happen..
No backup, in that case you are really screwed...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Over-priced machine with no provisions for tape or disk redundency. And no backups.
Yep, that's some server there. Any pricier and it'd be a Mac
Fuck you in the ass
And your newborn son Janez
See you both in hell
Wake me up when there is a Low COST mini-server for the Masses.
Don't get me wrong, I like small, light laptops, and LCDs. Attention to form factor makes a lot of sense when you're lugging something around, or you want to have, say, some desk space.
Now, servers are another beast. They sit there and do one thing. It doesn't really matter where they sit, so within reasonable limits, their size doesn't matter. They should also pretty much sit in one place, so why is wireless a selling point?
Power consumption does make a difference cost wise but you're overpaying for this thing so much that you can pretty well throw cost arguments out the window.
That leaves heat and noise as the remaining concerns. For heat, just add some fans, it's not that hard, and you don't even need to do that if you're using the machine so lightly that the a 533 with 128 mb of ram will do ya. Why do you care about noise (within reasonable limits) again? It's a server, you can put it wherever you want! How many times do I have to repeat that?
What is this? It's a gimmick... say it's an affordable server and someone who doesn't know about alternatives will think it is, rather than the old, overpriced laptop without an LCD display that it really is.
My 2c anyways.
Okay, so it's pretty and unassuming...looks just like a typical SOHO router. Big whoop. With the mass of Ethernet cables and power cords behind it, it's looks won't garner any awards I'd reckon.
That makes a whole lot of sense...I suppose that folks who want a VPN don't deserve a firewall too?
Yeah...I've heard a lot of clamoring for that feature in the SOHO market. Glad they decided that was worthy of the cut....
A whole public folder, huh? And no folder or file level permissions? I suppose that granular Read/Write/Modify/etc. permissions are out of the question too then? Now I see why you may want multiple domains....
Does this mean it won't actually validate logins on say...login? Or that the reviewer couldn't figure it out? So much for replacing a domain controller, I guess....
Okay, Bob, you're username is bob@sub.domain.local^H. Guess I'll have to fire Richard.
Yep, it's a good thing I spent $1400 on a server so that I can resort to peer-to-peer networking. Won't this make backing up and finding files fun again?
Yeah, I guess since the firewall in this thing sucks ass, you would be opening your desktops to the rest of the world....
I know I always recommend running your dynamic content webserver on your domain controller and fileserver. Especially when your firewall (which is on the same box) sucks.
... someone at mini-itx wedged a server into a cable modem case. I just love servers-in-disguise! For my next feat, I will cram a Crusoe based server into my 2" x 12" APC power strip!
TallGreen CMS hosting
We ripped a CD in EAC and then encoded the resulting WAV file in LAME. The CD was ripped from the workstation to the IT100, where LAME would then encode the WAV to MP3 and delete the old WAV file. This caused the IT100 to crash half way through every CD
Crashed because you read/write from the HD? What a POS!
It's completely useless, but hey! it's quiet! Meanwhile you can buy a cheap PC w/ assloads more HD space ($70 for 120GB at Best Buy!) for probably less moneym when it comes down to it.
1. He doesn't want a mini-itx motherboard because he can't find a case style he likes other than the Hush. But this is supposed to be a server so who cares? It costs much more than mini-itx solutions.
2. He states small businesses are afraid of Linux because there is no accountability. But that's FUD and crap. If you have a problem with Microsoft, guess what? They are big and powerful and Mr. Small Business Owner is weak and puny. If you just want someone to call, get your Linux software from one of the many companies selling it.
3. He talks like this is inexpensive, but it ain't. There are cheaper, better solutions out there, as I'm sure many have already pointed out.
4. There is likely a 4, and a 5 and 6, but I stopped there; I'd had enough. Save your time and read the comments here rather than the article.
.signature: No such file or directory
Apologies for replying to my own post, but I want to clarify a couple of issues that may answer some of the replies.
First, the issue is not Windows or Apple vs Linux (even if that were the intention of the parent posts). It's commercial vs non-commercial software. If you prefer, it's Red Hat vs Debian.
Second, I think (IANAL!) liability, whether legal or 'effective' is largely a matter of reasonable expectations. Nobody expects a hugely complex product like an operating system, or even a web server, to be completely secure. People understand that they will have to patch this type of software and expect its creators to provide timely patches. On the other hand, people expect that Excel will add the contents of two cells correctly, and if they lose money because Excel can't add, I bet we'd see lawsuits by users and settlements offered by Microsoft.
Third, don't discount the profit motive. Altruism, professionalism, and integrity count for a whole lot, but if you're a non-commercial developer, they won't get you to fly "cross country on two hours notice in order to get a system up and working", as one of the replies indicates.
Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
Perhaps the pricing is for when the dollar reaches its eventual value of around 0.65 Euros, but I wouldn't spend 1395 rupees on this heap.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
IT outsourcing for small mom & pop businesses. Then, in a case like this, the downtime is how long it takes for the IT doctor-on-call to get to your place of business.
Actually, I think I've seen people advertising this service locally.
For about $100, you could stick a 802.11b (or maybe g) access point on the rig & have all those things.
So maybe it should've been "$1395? I can top that at $550"...
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
"Aside from such special cases, assuming anyone buys this device, it will mostly be people who don't understand computers, and think it looks really neat"
You stumbled onto the truth : the product was designed for customers who don't understand computers; but never-the-less have to manage an office that has a few connected to each other and the web. And they can't afford to pay for decent computer consulting services.
I would be very much interested in this $100 WAP which integrates VPN. Do you have a particular model you recommend?
Fundamentally, the fact that you or I could do such things is irrelevant. This product is aimed at minimizing the IT effort involved, because it is being placed in small offices with no IT staff.
This also leads me to believe that this was perhaps a very ill-placed advertisement, since I haven't seen any consultants jumping in and saying "I'm installing 3 of these next week at client sites." I wonder if the fear is that it will eliminate too many "our network/wireless/computers are down" billable hours, er, I mean, service calls.
As these things run on 60 watts (aka, a small light bulb' worth), I could run a stack of them without having a huge airconditioner. This would be pretty attractive in my current situation where we are paying much more to shift a huge air-con. Also remember that downtown commercial rents are by the sqaure metre/foot.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
I was once a client of the parent's poster and I was dissatisfied with his level of "service." STAY AWAY FROM LRSE HOSTING AT ALL COSTS. They are a bunch of imcompetent idiots and they're a huge DoS magnet to boot.
A friend has an old iBook running OSX that rarely needs to be rebooted and runs 24x7. I think the last time he rebooted it was to upgrade OSX. Oh and the time there was a 12 hour power outage... the battery only works as a 3-4 hour UPS. :-)
If all what you are saying was at least remotely based on reality, MS would not have the stronghold they have in the desktop market because their reputation would be in shatters.
There are people even here that defend them fro buuny's sake!
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
There are some fantastic looking STB-style PCs someone else pointed out here and they look perfect for installing MythTV as discussed here. I'm put off by the comments posted next to the parent of this comment by talk of reliability and difficulty of installing Linux. Does anyone else have any experience of these boards, and especially installing Gentoo on it?
Thanks,
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
I tried posting this on their site but it requires username, and I am not registering to post a single comment:
I think if you do a little testing you will discover that your home broadband connection will be swamped well before the IT100 will be overloaded with web server traffic. Especially if it is all static content. "Hundreds of requests per day"?? More like thousands, easily.
E V E R Y T H I N G I W R I T E I S F A L S E
i notice he talks about this like it's an alternative to a Linux box, but then points out that it runs linux, but that you won't really notice that because of the interface.
how exactly does that protect owners from the "unaccountability" of linux that he says is another reason that small businesses stay away from it?
so, as i understand this, if you want to free yourself up from the support and indemnification hassles of a linux box, get this linux box!
i think he's been smoking his Windows howto manuals(they oughta be good for something).
Your right about people getting a better grip on English
Did you mean, "You're right?"
If "afterall" is a word then it isn't in my dictionary, nor on dictionary.com. How about two words: after all.
- Your right about people getting a better grip on English - afterall, their going to need correct usage to survive in hour business climate.
I hope you also noticed that I got "their" wrong (supposed to be "they're") and "hour" wrong (supposed to be "our").If your going to be a gramer nazzi, best cach all the errers or somewon mite think you're grammor skils arr week.
(hint: this one was humor two)
(hint: so was that!)
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good