Have you tried any mailing lists? Redhat@yahoo
and Linux@yahoo both are very civil. I am a moderator for one of them and myself and many others always try to keep the peace. I don't mess with IRC for the reasons you listed. Bring your questions to one of these list.
I am an Inetl driver developer, you are a Linux driver developer. I come over your house for dinner and by "accident", I leave the technical specs at your house. You read the specs and write a Linux driver. I signed an NDA with Inetl, you did not. No laws were broken. You did not see ANY of Inetl's source code or "IP". There is nothing Intel can do to stop you from writting a fully-functioning driver since you did not see any of their source or "IP", and you reverse engineered it : )
Of course, I am not a lawyer so there may be something to stop a situation like this. Though as far as I know, there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering and they cannot prove that you even looked at the Intel specs, etc.
You should obviously have a lawyer review the GPL. If you are going to distribute an unmodified binary kernel, you still have to include the source to that unmodifed binary or make it available somewhere. As for your proprietary drivers, you do not have to realease that code. Look at the Linux drivers for the NVidia graphics card. NVidia does not distribute their source, and they are in comlience with the GPL. Oh, by the way, is there any reason you don't want to Open Source your drivers? If you did Open Source them, they would be proteced by the GPL and standard copyright. Just a thought and good luck with your embedded Linux produtc!
You only have to make the code available if you DISTRIBUTE it. For example, company A downloads the Linux kernel and makes tons of changes to it. Company A DOES NOT have to make those changes available if they are not distributing the code. So, if company A makes all those changes for their own INTERNAL use, then they are not in violation since they are just an end user. However, if company A wants to sell/distribute that custome code, then yes, they have to make those changes available.
What a troll. Would you be making the same statements if these companies had been using Microsoft's embedded XP in their products without paying Micorsoft and violating Microsoft's copyrights? I doubt it. However, for some reason in your pea-brain, it is OK to violate to copyrights of GPL authors? Troll.
At least with MS they can pass on the legal responsibility
No they can not. Have you read any MS EULA? You have NO legal recourse against MS. In fact, it is this way with all proprietary software. The proprietary market wants you to believe that you are getting some extra "value", however you are not. Has MS refunded the BILLIONS lost around the world because of their security issues? No. Can any company sue MS for damages because of the security issues with MS software? No.
There is NO support from MS. I am a programmer for a fortune 500, and have had to deal with MS and some of their drones. They were never any real help. Second, have you ever read the MS EULA? You get nothing from MS. If an MS product causes something to blow up, MS is not responsible and there is nothing you can do about it. So if a car maker went with WinCE over Linux, they gain nothing in support or guarantees of the quality of software. If WinCE crashes and causes an engine to shutdown, do you think MS will refund the damages? No. Again, going with MS or any proprietary software for that matter gives no real benefits for support or guarantee of the products claimed functionality. Has MS refunded all of their customers over the years that has lost BILLIONS due to viruses and security holes? No. So there is no benefit to using MS in an embedded application.
There is also something in the Constitution about the right to bear arms. Isn't there also something in there about the right to over-throw the government? We just need to exercise our right to bear arms and take our nation back. Though, the hardest part of that is getting people motivated. Most Americans are selfish, if something is not affecting them directly, they are not motived to act.
The problem I have with the current situation is that is it not a TRUE democracy. I am supposed to have my voice heard through my representative. However, most/all representatives are more concerned with the voting voice of their pay constituents. Also, myself as well as many others choose not to vote because of lack of choice. What good does it do me or the USA for me to choose between two idiots? If I vote for one, it would appear as if I supported him/her. I really don't have any hope for the current system that is steeped in greed.
We could get McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's involved. We could have them all set up at the White House and offer all the free greasy food you want for FREE. That should get a lot of the fat lazy Americans moving!
Or we could have a really big truck filled with that greasy crap, and we would move the truck one block at a time. Once all the fatty's almost catch-up, we hit the gas and move another block. Eventually, we would get about 60% (that is the estimated number of over weight Americans) of America to the White House to protest. Once they are at the White House, we give them the food so they keep their mouths shut and let a few intelligent people speak!
That is not right. You shouldn't have to give these idiots MONEY to have them vote according to the people. Isn't that what a "represented democracy" is supposed to be? Personally, I think we need a forceful overhaul in this country and implement a true democracy where any American 18 or over can cast a vote. The votes are counted and a law is either passed or not passed based on those votes. We could have a big vote every 6 months. Where X number of laws/issues could be voted on. It would be the job of congress to lobby us to try to get thier laws passed. The problem with a "represented democracy" is that those who should be representing the people are often representing those with the largest donations.
I used Knoppix a few times, though I use the Gnome version since that is my prefered desktop. I wanted to get a dual boot going with Debian and Fedora. I just purchased Debian unstable from Linux CDR's. Though I just read in another post that even the "unstable" version is using some pretty old packages. X 4.2.1 won't cut it with my Radeon card in my laptop. I guess I just wasted money on the CD's, though I don't mind since it helps the Debian effort. Is there a Debain package of the latest X or does one have to compile it? I am a little tired out compiling, I used LFS for a good 2 1/2 years and now perfer packages to get faster installs of applications on my systems.
I have used Linux for many years, though I have not tried Debian yet. I would like to do that now, though the stable branch is just too old to be useful on my newer hardware. What version do I want to grab? Unstable, testing, sid, woody, sarge? Can anyone familiar with Debian clarify the different versions?
Hmm, this got me thinking. I think a/. moderation approach would work great.
Any number of projects could register with the site and supply a Pay Pal account. All the regiestered projects would be put into category such as Net->MUA or Audio->MP3->Player, etc.
Now, users can register with the site and donate money. For every dollar, they are given one voting point that they can vote any registered project. On the first of the month, the totals for all projects are shown, and then those projects are paid through Pay Pal.
So for example, let us say that there are 100 projects registered and users have donated $1,000 for the month. project Foo had 238 votes, so project Foo would have $238 dollars placed into thier account. Project Bar had 27, votes, so project Bar gets $27 dollars placed into thier account. So on and so on until all the money has been dispensed according to how the users voted.
This method is good because it does not require paying a developer or team do implement feature X and hoping it gets done. There could be a feed back forum where the voting users send request to the developers. This system would be self regulating. For example, if a new project Foo2 comes out and it is cool but still alpha/beta quality, users could send votes(read money) to this Foo2. However, if the devlepers don't deliver the goods, less users will vote for them next month, and the months after that. So if the developers want to continue to get votes, they will need to deliver and keep thier user community happy.
Also, the system would also prevent bogus projects from making annoucements about great new app X-Tream and never delivering anything. For a project to be registered, they would have to have at least a functional alpha quality proto-type. So apps will work their way to the top of the donation scale by earning a reputation.
This is obviously rough around the edges, though I think a system similar to this could work out well. I wouldn't have a problem donating $10 a month to this, think if we had 10,000 users donating $5-$10 a month.
Not only the above, but I believe that in *every* state it is against the law for an employer to require an employee to work without pay. This guy made this program on *his own time*, and without pay from Apple. Apple has no claims to this "IP".
Also, being able to view the format isn't much use. It's XML, but that doesn't mean it will be meaningful cleartext. They can simply uuencode a big block of binary data, stick it between two tags, and it's valid XML.
Learn from the past. Microsoft are not here to do us favours.
Exactly. The Schema may define the document format and clear text, however, I guarantee that important things like images, charts, etc will be one big undocumented binary blob. All the Microsofties will be crying "see, Microsoft is good, see they did open up Office!". When the truth will be that the "XML" format will not be any more open then the current binary format. Instead of a binary "shell" to hold the proprietary data, they are using an XML shell to hold the proprietary data, no innovation here.
The company I am a programmer at spent tens of millions on PeopleSoft's Portal and HR systems. I had to code and customize the applications and quickly came to the conclusion that, they are pure junk. I hope Oracle DOES by them out and make a good product out of the technology!
I think the Red Hat move may be smart. Linux will not make a big jump on the average Joe Home User until there is more industry support for general applications and odd ball devices. The average Joe cannot walk into BestBuy and get a copy of Sally's Gretting Card's program for Linux. Right now, most of the industry support for Linux is in the server room with server/enterprise type applications. So, Red Hat is going to focus on the sector where they can profit. Without profit, Red Hat will go under. Once more general applications come along for Linux for the "average" consumer, I see more "commercial" Linux companies focusing on the Deskotp. For now, I think Desktop Linux will stay mainly a community focused effort, which has been working well for me for the last few years.
It is all I have used AT HOME. At work I develop for MS Windows, Linux and Solaris. I have a two Linux workstations (Red Hat 9 and RHEL WS) and two MS Windows workstations (Windows 2000 and Windows XP) for development.
Red Hat for the desktop is not going away. It is becoming Fedora. I have been using that since it came out and it is pretty nice. I think the Red Hat CEO made this comment because they are getting out of the desktop market for a while. It seems a little like a stab in the back. Of course the CEO was quick to mention how great Linux is as a server and that there still is the Red Hat Enterprise line. I do agree with the CEO that for the average user, MS Window is easier to use, especially with device support. Linux on the desktop is a good match for a "windows-power-user" though. I have been using Linux on the desktop for the past 5 year exclusively and really do prefer it over MS Windows.
What? Where are you getting your poor information? I have been using Fedora Core for a while now and follow the mailing lists. Many of Red Hat's top developers (and top Linux developers) are involved in Fedora. Alan Cox, Edward C. Bailey, Mike A. Harris, Guy M. Streeter, Elliot Lee, Benjamin Kosnik, Jeremy Katz all working at Red Hat and *very* active in the Fedor Core project. As far as their Enterprise line goes, the sales from those is what first made Red Hat profitable. Maybe check your facts before posting bunk.
Yeah, well mine is better then yours! This could turn into a silly distro flamewar. Red Hat has top kernel developers working for them, 6 of the top 10 in fact. Mandrake does not have those resources. We run Oracle 9i database, Oracle 9iAS J2EE servers and software from IBM. These are all certified on Red Hat and SuSE and not Mandrake. I work for a fortune 500 company and *every* critical application *has* to be certified by the application vendor, otherwise the application vednor does not give the very expensive support we pay for. Sure you can run these commercial application on Mandrake, however, we would have to say bye-bye to our very expensive 24x7 Enterprise support. Unitl/If Mandrake reaches that level, the only two commercial distros that I know of that are fit for an Enterprise are Red Hat and SuSE. Sure Debian is great, Slack is great, however, Oracle doesn't give their support for them. When you pay $30,000 or so PER PROCESSOR for some of these applications running on 10's or 100's of processors, the certified support from the vendor is critical.
Slashdot Mirror
Have you tried any mailing lists? Redhat@yahoo and Linux@yahoo both are very civil. I am a moderator for one of them and myself and many others always try to keep the peace. I don't mess with IRC for the reasons you listed. Bring your questions to one of these list.
example only:
I am an Inetl driver developer, you are a Linux driver developer. I come over your house for dinner and by "accident", I leave the technical specs at your house. You read the specs and write a Linux driver. I signed an NDA with Inetl, you did not. No laws were broken. You did not see ANY of Inetl's source code or "IP". There is nothing Intel can do to stop you from writting a fully-functioning driver since you did not see any of their source or "IP", and you reverse engineered it : )
Of course, I am not a lawyer so there may be something to stop a situation like this. Though as far as I know, there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering and they cannot prove that you even looked at the Intel specs, etc.
It seems one doesn't know what the other is doing.
The left hand is saying that kids should not be allowed to buy/view this "harmful" stuff.
The right hand is saying that it is OK to use the F-word on TV networks
You just gotta love the American government.
You should obviously have a lawyer review the GPL. If you are going to distribute an unmodified binary kernel, you still have to include the source to that unmodifed binary or make it available somewhere. As for your proprietary drivers, you do not have to realease that code. Look at the Linux drivers for the NVidia graphics card. NVidia does not distribute their source, and they are in comlience with the GPL. Oh, by the way, is there any reason you don't want to Open Source your drivers? If you did Open Source them, they would be proteced by the GPL and standard copyright. Just a thought and good luck with your embedded Linux produtc!
You only have to make the code available if you DISTRIBUTE it. For example, company A downloads the Linux kernel and makes tons of changes to it. Company A DOES NOT have to make those changes available if they are not distributing the code. So, if company A makes all those changes for their own INTERNAL use, then they are not in violation since they are just an end user. However, if company A wants to sell/distribute that custome code, then yes, they have to make those changes available.
What a troll. Would you be making the same statements if these companies had been using Microsoft's embedded XP in their products without paying Micorsoft and violating Microsoft's copyrights? I doubt it. However, for some reason in your pea-brain, it is OK to violate to copyrights of GPL authors? Troll.
There is NO support from MS. I am a programmer for a fortune 500, and have had to deal with MS and some of their drones. They were never any real help. Second, have you ever read the MS EULA? You get nothing from MS. If an MS product causes something to blow up, MS is not responsible and there is nothing you can do about it. So if a car maker went with WinCE over Linux, they gain nothing in support or guarantees of the quality of software. If WinCE crashes and causes an engine to shutdown, do you think MS will refund the damages? No. Again, going with MS or any proprietary software for that matter gives no real benefits for support or guarantee of the products claimed functionality. Has MS refunded all of their customers over the years that has lost BILLIONS due to viruses and security holes? No. So there is no benefit to using MS in an embedded application.
There is also something in the Constitution about the right to bear arms. Isn't there also something in there about the right to over-throw the government? We just need to exercise our right to bear arms and take our nation back. Though, the hardest part of that is getting people motivated. Most Americans are selfish, if something is not affecting them directly, they are not motived to act.
The problem I have with the current situation is that is it not a TRUE democracy. I am supposed to have my voice heard through my representative. However, most/all representatives are more concerned with the voting voice of their pay constituents. Also, myself as well as many others choose not to vote because of lack of choice. What good does it do me or the USA for me to choose between two idiots? If I vote for one, it would appear as if I supported him/her. I really don't have any hope for the current system that is steeped in greed.
We could get McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's involved. We could have them all set up at the White House and offer all the free greasy food you want for FREE. That should get a lot of the fat lazy Americans moving!
Or we could have a really big truck filled with that greasy crap, and we would move the truck one block at a time. Once all the fatty's almost catch-up, we hit the gas and move another block. Eventually, we would get about 60% (that is the estimated number of over weight Americans) of America to the White House to protest. Once they are at the White House, we give them the food so they keep their mouths shut and let a few intelligent people speak!
That is not right. You shouldn't have to give these idiots MONEY to have them vote according to the people. Isn't that what a "represented democracy" is supposed to be? Personally, I think we need a forceful overhaul in this country and implement a true democracy where any American 18 or over can cast a vote. The votes are counted and a law is either passed or not passed based on those votes. We could have a big vote every 6 months. Where X number of laws/issues could be voted on. It would be the job of congress to lobby us to try to get thier laws passed. The problem with a "represented democracy" is that those who should be representing the people are often representing those with the largest donations.
I used Knoppix a few times, though I use the Gnome version since that is my prefered desktop. I wanted to get a dual boot going with Debian and Fedora. I just purchased Debian unstable from Linux CDR's. Though I just read in another post that even the "unstable" version is using some pretty old packages. X 4.2.1 won't cut it with my Radeon card in my laptop. I guess I just wasted money on the CD's, though I don't mind since it helps the Debian effort. Is there a Debain package of the latest X or does one have to compile it? I am a little tired out compiling, I used LFS for a good 2 1/2 years and now perfer packages to get faster installs of applications on my systems.
I have used Linux for many years, though I have not tried Debian yet. I would like to do that now, though the stable branch is just too old to be useful on my newer hardware. What version do I want to grab? Unstable, testing, sid, woody, sarge? Can anyone familiar with Debian clarify the different versions?
Hmm, this got me thinking. I think a /. moderation approach would work great.
Any number of projects could register with the site and supply a Pay Pal account. All the regiestered projects would be put into category such as Net->MUA or Audio->MP3->Player, etc.
Now, users can register with the site and donate money. For every dollar, they are given one voting point that they can vote any registered project. On the first of the month, the totals for all projects are shown, and then those projects are paid through Pay Pal.
So for example, let us say that there are 100 projects registered and users have donated $1,000 for the month. project Foo had 238 votes, so project Foo would have $238 dollars placed into thier account. Project Bar had 27, votes, so project Bar gets $27 dollars placed into thier account. So on and so on until all the money has been dispensed according to how the users voted.
This method is good because it does not require paying a developer or team do implement feature X and hoping it gets done. There could be a feed back forum where the voting users send request to the developers. This system would be self regulating. For example, if a new project Foo2 comes out and it is cool but still alpha/beta quality, users could send votes(read money) to this Foo2. However, if the devlepers don't deliver the goods, less users will vote for them next month, and the months after that. So if the developers want to continue to get votes, they will need to deliver and keep thier user community happy.
Also, the system would also prevent bogus projects from making annoucements about great new app X-Tream and never delivering anything. For a project to be registered, they would have to have at least a functional alpha quality proto-type. So apps will work their way to the top of the donation scale by earning a reputation.
This is obviously rough around the edges, though I think a system similar to this could work out well. I wouldn't have a problem donating $10 a month to this, think if we had 10,000 users donating $5-$10 a month.
No, Linux added almost $0 to the cost. You are paying for the hardware and Oracle. Oracle is not cheap, I think it is about $30,000 USD per processor.
In the PostgreSQL FAQ, PostgreSQL is pronounced Post-Gres-Q-L.
Not only the above, but I believe that in *every* state it is against the law for an employer to require an employee to work without pay. This guy made this program on *his own time*, and without pay from Apple. Apple has no claims to this "IP".
The company I am a programmer at spent tens of millions on PeopleSoft's Portal and HR systems. I had to code and customize the applications and quickly came to the conclusion that, they are pure junk. I hope Oracle DOES by them out and make a good product out of the technology!
I think the Red Hat move may be smart. Linux will not make a big jump on the average Joe Home User until there is more industry support for general applications and odd ball devices. The average Joe cannot walk into BestBuy and get a copy of Sally's Gretting Card's program for Linux. Right now, most of the industry support for Linux is in the server room with server/enterprise type applications. So, Red Hat is going to focus on the sector where they can profit. Without profit, Red Hat will go under. Once more general applications come along for Linux for the "average" consumer, I see more "commercial" Linux companies focusing on the Deskotp. For now, I think Desktop Linux will stay mainly a community focused effort, which has been working well for me for the last few years.
What? sourceforge is hosting 70,925 Open Source projects, how is that being out of commission?
It is all I have used AT HOME. At work I develop for MS Windows, Linux and Solaris. I have a two Linux workstations (Red Hat 9 and RHEL WS) and two MS Windows workstations (Windows 2000 and Windows XP) for development.
Red Hat for the desktop is not going away. It is becoming Fedora. I have been using that since it came out and it is pretty nice. I think the Red Hat CEO made this comment because they are getting out of the desktop market for a while. It seems a little like a stab in the back. Of course the CEO was quick to mention how great Linux is as a server and that there still is the Red Hat Enterprise line. I do agree with the CEO that for the average user, MS Window is easier to use, especially with device support. Linux on the desktop is a good match for a "windows-power-user" though. I have been using Linux on the desktop for the past 5 year exclusively and really do prefer it over MS Windows.
What? Where are you getting your poor information? I have been using Fedora Core for a while now and follow the mailing lists. Many of Red Hat's top developers (and top Linux developers) are involved in Fedora. Alan Cox, Edward C. Bailey, Mike A. Harris, Guy M. Streeter, Elliot Lee, Benjamin Kosnik, Jeremy Katz all working at Red Hat and *very* active in the Fedor Core project. As far as their Enterprise line goes, the sales from those is what first made Red Hat profitable. Maybe check your facts before posting bunk.
Yeah, well mine is better then yours! This could turn into a silly distro flamewar. Red Hat has top kernel developers working for them, 6 of the top 10 in fact. Mandrake does not have those resources. We run Oracle 9i database, Oracle 9iAS J2EE servers and software from IBM. These are all certified on Red Hat and SuSE and not Mandrake. I work for a fortune 500 company and *every* critical application *has* to be certified by the application vendor, otherwise the application vednor does not give the very expensive support we pay for. Sure you can run these commercial application on Mandrake, however, we would have to say bye-bye to our very expensive 24x7 Enterprise support. Unitl/If Mandrake reaches that level, the only two commercial distros that I know of that are fit for an Enterprise are Red Hat and SuSE. Sure Debian is great, Slack is great, however, Oracle doesn't give their support for them. When you pay $30,000 or so PER PROCESSOR for some of these applications running on 10's or 100's of processors, the certified support from the vendor is critical.