Yes NASA developed SElinux, but it was having difficulty breaking into the mainstream, RH hired Russel Coker and pushed for its inclusion into 2.6 kernel I can assure you they have paid people working on this so that it will work with every day tasks instead of only being applicable to 'hardened' distro's. This is huge IMO
kudzu is hardware tool, used in knoppix to get that "works on any hardware" people were screaming when it first came out.
gcj/gcc/etc you say its probably not a good thing, have you read the changelog over the last year? Pretty incredible stuff. There is a couple things from the Article here I liked too about GCC:
GCC 4.0 has Static Single Assignment (SSA) performance improvements -- SSA's usefulness comes from how it simultaneously simplifies and improves compiler optimizations, by simplifying the properties of variables.
and
The FORTIFY_SOURCE extensions add both compile-time buffer overflow detection, and very low overhead runtime overflow protection. This is an excellent development tool to help improve the quality of code out there, and a current aim is to have the -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE option to compile the entire Fedora Core 4 distribution! (Nothing shipped in Fedora Core 3 makes use of GCC4) For more information on this, refer to a posting made by Jakub Jelinek at http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2004-09/msg02055.htm
I concider these good things. So have the last 5 years since cygnus merged.
I don't mean to say redhat wrote all these apps from the ground up although they did for some. Just that almost every top notch app for linux you can think of had a money player behind it like RedHat/SuSE/etc. What does this mean? Free distro's are the ones benifiting more from the $$$ guys.. The $$$ guys are the ones piling on the features we ask for, they're the ones giving us the "killer apps"
Okay you keep saying over and over how RedHat is exploiting linux, or "milking unpaid volunteers"
rmap, nptl, O(1) scheduler, O(1) VM layer, drivers, tcp/ip stack, selinux, statefull linux, exec-shield, gcj, mozilla, Anaconda, RPM, kudzu, GTK2, GCC, Glibc, ext2, ext3, GFS, and soon Netscape directory.
I'll put that up against Apt-get if you want to have a contest about who is "milking" the community more. Debian or RedHat/Fedora.
they unloaded it on unpaid labor who do all the work for them and they just control
But all RedHat does is steal work from these poor programers just look at the end of this comment. They contribute more than any other single entity, dedicating 1/5th of their income to R&D. If anyone deserves a "free plug" certain Red Hat is one of those companys.
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep "@redhat" | wc -l
677
$... @mandrake
6
$... @debian
141
$... @gentoo
0
$... @suse
657
With the upstream glibc-20041021T0701
$... @redhat
4760
$... @mandrake
24
$... @debian
98
$... @gentoo
4
$... @suse
1339
With the upstream gcc-3.4.2-20041018
$... @redhat
7995
$... @mandrake
4
$... @debian
64
$... @gentoo
0
$... @suse
2028
Do the same with... Gnome:-)
by some guy named By my_name on OSnews forum.
if you RTFA:
The downloads for the Fedora Core 3 release have been stunning -- the torrent at Duke sustained over 16,000 image downloads, exchanging about 37TB in just two days!
Apparently one or two people like the project but don't let that get in the way of someone on Slashdot telling you RH is dead, please by all means ignore the fact they're the #1 distro in India, just opened an office in China which is now their main focus. They have office in Munich and landed some very big contracts there. Are currently the #1 installed distro in the world by a landslide according to netcraft. If you guys read that Mag and put down the zealot sword for a second you might see why everyone uses redhat/fedora, It's kicking the crap out of the competition.
This is what happened with the banner incident for those who don't know:
At Sun's launch event at the Tech Museum of Innovation in downtown San Jose, Calif. In the sky above, a plane carried a banner emblazoned with the Red Hat logo. On it was a saying from Mohandas Gandhi: "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."
In my opinion I don't think Solaris has a chance unless it can release under a true "free" license that allows others to sell it. Otherwise it wont effect RedHat or Novell too much. It will be like BSD: play a part in the future, just not the wave of the future.
Hello,
You are receiving this email because you are an Admin of a project
on SourceForge.net. (Note: These update emails are very low
volume, approximately twice a year).
The SourceForge.net team is pleased to announce the long-awaited
upgrade to our project web service. SourceForge.net staff are
currently in the process of completing hardware procurement and
system build-out. The official date for this upgrade has not yet
been set; once our hardware build-out has been completed, the
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This upgrade consists of a significant hardware upgrade and
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it may be necessary to upgrade your scripts.
Old configuration:
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Additional upgrades may be performed after this initial upgrade is
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Since you (and 30 others) feel its your duty to spit at redhat while holding up your Debian flag I think its about time you guys answer some questions.
Red Hat did SMP, NPTL, clustering, O(1) scheduler, O(1) VM layer Starting and stopping 100,000 threads used to take 15 minutes, now it literally takes one second. Had major contributions to or wrote outright Mozilla, Open Office, Kernel, GTK2, GCC, Glibc, metacity, wrote Java compiler, Xorg(xfree), stateless linux, SElinux, exec-shild, RPM, Anaconda. It bought out 3 company's turning previous closed source software the company's owned into OSS software like netscape directory and GFS, sistina's VM. RedHat promises to spend 1/5th of their income on R&D of free software.
Now... What has Debian done for us? Thanks for apt-get. Which side is "just packaging free software" again?
Some of us BUY RH because they take our money and INVENT software that is OSS, they don't just patch security flaws.
isn't there already some "splainin" to do seeing as they are open sourcing Solaris which supposedly they had to pay to use? I know I'm missing something but so far this translates to: "We don't have to pay SCO, we just want to" to me.
$3000 from one customer increases sales much more then 1000 customers downloading RH for free.
By subscriptions and revenue. 90% renewal rates, 25% more subscriptions, and gaining their first major profits ever. And it appears to keep happening every quarter since.
If RedHat's price raising is so bad why did their sales sky rocket, and continue increasing every quarter since the change? RedHat might be more expensive than it once was, but another thing is for sure too; RH a hell of a lot better quality than it was and people are buying it. You say it makes it harder to compete with Sun, but I say they've only just begun to compete with Sun cause now Linux kernel can do all those things only big UNIX could do.
According to comment no 161 on this page it still has the bug.
Then why is everyone on this thread (including myself) not having problems duel booting XP and FC3?
I hit this bug in FC2 so I know it could happen to me. But FC3 install went without a hitch.
Parent doesn't run Fedora, has no idea what he's talking about. If you really want to know what Fedora's goal is read it on their site. Not from someone on slashdot telling you that It's a beta that doesn't get tested, I've been testing this release since early July thank you.
Also I believe sourceforge switched from Debian to FC2 to serve up those TB's of data. That should show Fedora is pretty stable. Atleast more stable than It's given credit for.
Graduating a higher percentage doesn't mean better schools. In fact, it could mean lower standards...
Yeah California and New York have high education standards hehe.
The mods take down the guy who posted facts (here they are btw) http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_31_tabl e_2.htm and mod +5 the guy with the "but, but..." retort that has absoultly no basis in fact. I'll ofcourse now be modded down for pointing this out. I love it
Indeed, It should be noted that Red Hat wasn't asked to be a part of this standard until 6 hours before the announcement was made: "hey RedHat we made a new standard, you have half a day to be standards compliant, thanks -United Linux"
People should be aware of what this really was, SuSE attempting to be what RedHat already was.
Microsoft says, "See? TCO for Linux rises because you need to be ready to pay the legal costs of defending yourself.
I'm not sure It's that simple. I read an article over the weekend that said M$ spent more on Linux than any other company this year because of the Novell and Sun billions they forked out. That money is likely to be put into Linux atleast in some cases. You don't give your competition a few billion dollars just for an "i told you so".
They've spent the last 2 years accumulating as many patents as they could, some of them incredibly silly. They are getting ready to mount a legal attack, perhaps to the wine/NTFS/mono(?) distro's of the world. There might be something to this sue the customer thing cause MS has just gave a couple billion to linux companies (novell/sun) in order to clear their name. When they come for linux they sound like they'll come for its customers. Again, I don't know if they can win but they seem to be spending billions which says they atleast think they can.
Blogs have passed being ignored, emerging from laughter, and starting to be seriously attacked.
Not by me, I still laugh at blogs and anyone who takes them seriously. Personally I like my news sources to be forced to have some form of credibility attached to them. When CBS screws up it hits other news outlets and they attack CBS for its screw up and gives an apology. I'm not sure a blog much less a biast blog has any pressure to admit a screw up or 'fuzzy stats'.
good post, I knew it was written by yellow dog, bad wording i guess. Also I think there were some other 'technical' reasons for using yum infavor of apt, there was mirrors, but also something about arch? easy to intergrate into up2date? I can't remember now.
Which brings us back to the "real reasons" Fedora doesn't use apt. It was not written for RPM just like anaconda was not written for sparc. Thats kinda the point I was making. Personally I still think both would have been better off using the others work, anaconda is excellent so is apt. oh well.
screenshot link is already slashdotted here's another site.
Those screenshots are from test 2, in test 3 updates some things changed so those screenshots are not completly accurate, for instance there are two task bars now like most other gnome distros.
Slashdot Mirror
"internet porn is 'worse than crack.'"
People are going to make fun of this line but its a very serious problem. Have you ever seen a porn baby you insensitive clod?!
Yes NASA developed SElinux, but it was having difficulty breaking into the mainstream, RH hired Russel Coker and pushed for its inclusion into 2.6 kernel I can assure you they have paid people working on this so that it will work with every day tasks instead of only being applicable to 'hardened' distro's. This is huge IMO
5 .htm
kudzu is hardware tool, used in knoppix to get that "works on any hardware" people were screaming when it first came out.
gcj/gcc/etc you say its probably not a good thing, have you read the changelog over the last year? Pretty incredible stuff. There is a couple things from the Article here I liked too about GCC:
GCC 4.0 has Static Single Assignment (SSA) performance improvements -- SSA's usefulness comes from how it simultaneously simplifies and improves compiler optimizations, by simplifying the properties of variables. and
The FORTIFY_SOURCE extensions add both compile-time buffer overflow detection, and very low overhead runtime overflow protection. This is an excellent development tool to help improve the quality of code out there, and a current aim is to have the -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE option to compile the entire Fedora Core 4 distribution! (Nothing shipped in Fedora Core 3 makes use of GCC4) For more information on this, refer to a posting made by Jakub Jelinek at http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2004-09/msg0205
I concider these good things. So have the last 5 years since cygnus merged.
I don't mean to say redhat wrote all these apps from the ground up although they did for some. Just that almost every top notch app for linux you can think of had a money player behind it like RedHat/SuSE/etc. What does this mean? Free distro's are the ones benifiting more from the $$$ guys.. The $$$ guys are the ones piling on the features we ask for, they're the ones giving us the "killer apps"
Okay you keep saying over and over how RedHat is exploiting linux, or "milking unpaid volunteers"
rmap, nptl, O(1) scheduler, O(1) VM layer, drivers, tcp/ip stack, selinux, statefull linux, exec-shield, gcj, mozilla, Anaconda, RPM, kudzu, GTK2, GCC, Glibc, ext2, ext3, GFS, and soon Netscape directory.
I'll put that up against Apt-get if you want to have a contest about who is "milking" the community more. Debian or RedHat/Fedora.
they unloaded it on unpaid labor who do all the work for them and they just control
... @mandrake ... @debian ... @gentoo ... @suse
... @redhat ... @mandrake ... @debian ... @gentoo ... @suse
... @redhat ... @mandrake ... @debian ... @gentoo ... @suse
... Gnome :-)
But all RedHat does is steal work from these poor programers just look at the end of this comment. They contribute more than any other single entity, dedicating 1/5th of their income to R&D. If anyone deserves a "free plug" certain Red Hat is one of those companys.
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep "@redhat" | wc -l
677
$
6
$
141
$
0
$
657
With the upstream glibc-20041021T0701
$
4760
$
24
$
98
$
4
$
1339
With the upstream gcc-3.4.2-20041018
$
7995
$
4
$
64
$
0
$
2028
Do the same with
by some guy named By my_name on OSnews forum.
Is RedHat still around?
if you RTFA:
The downloads for the Fedora Core 3 release have been stunning -- the torrent at Duke sustained over 16,000 image downloads, exchanging about 37TB in just two days!
Apparently one or two people like the project but don't let that get in the way of someone on Slashdot telling you RH is dead, please by all means ignore the fact they're the #1 distro in India, just opened an office in China which is now their main focus. They have office in Munich and landed some very big contracts there. Are currently the #1 installed distro in the world by a landslide according to netcraft. If you guys read that Mag and put down the zealot sword for a second you might see why everyone uses redhat/fedora, It's kicking the crap out of the competition.
This is what happened with the banner incident for those who don't know:
At Sun's launch event at the Tech Museum of Innovation in downtown San Jose, Calif. In the sky above, a plane carried a banner emblazoned with the Red Hat logo. On it was a saying from Mohandas Gandhi: "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."
In my opinion I don't think Solaris has a chance unless it can release under a true "free" license that allows others to sell it. Otherwise it wont effect RedHat or Novell too much.
It will be like BSD: play a part in the future, just not the wave of the future.
Okay, this is what I was going off though:
----- Forwarded message from "SourceForge.net Team" -----
From: "SourceForge.net Team"
Subject: SourceForge.net PR-Web Upgrade Notice.
Hello,
You are receiving this email because you are an Admin of a project
on SourceForge.net. (Note: These update emails are very low
volume, approximately twice a year).
The SourceForge.net team is pleased to announce the long-awaited
upgrade to our project web service. SourceForge.net staff are
currently in the process of completing hardware procurement and
system build-out. The official date for this upgrade has not yet
been set; once our hardware build-out has been completed, the
date will be announced on the SourceForge.net Site Status page.
https://sourceforge.net/docs/A04/
This upgrade consists of a significant hardware upgrade and
Operating System upgrade. Due to the large upgrades involved here,
it may be necessary to upgrade your scripts.
Old configuration:
Debian Potato
Linux kernel 2.4.x
GNU libc 2.2.1
Apache 1.3.26
Perl 5.005_03
PHP 4.1.2
Python 1.5.2
Tcl 8.0
New configuration:
Fedora Linux: Fedora Core 2
Linux kernel 2.6.x
GNU libc 2.3.3
Apache 2.0.51
Perl 5.8.3
PHP 4.3.8
Python 2.3.3
Tcl 8.4.5
Additional upgrades may be performed after this initial upgrade is
completed; any follow-up changes will be announced via the
Site Status page.
A host roughly matching the configuration of the new project web
servers is being placed within the Compile Farm on 2004-10-22.
Additional information regarding the Compile Farm may be found
at: https://sourceforge.net/docs/E02/
Questions or concerns regarding this upgrade may be directed to
SourceForge.net staff by submitting a Support Request as per:
https://sourceforge.net/docs/C01/#support_site
Thank you,
SourceForge.net staff
----- End forwarded message -----
Since you (and 30 others) feel its your duty to spit at redhat while holding up your Debian flag I think its about time you guys answer some questions. Red Hat did SMP, NPTL, clustering, O(1) scheduler, O(1) VM layer Starting and stopping 100,000 threads used to take 15 minutes, now it literally takes one second.
Had major contributions to or wrote outright Mozilla, Open Office, Kernel, GTK2, GCC, Glibc, metacity, wrote Java compiler, Xorg(xfree), stateless linux, SElinux, exec-shild, RPM, Anaconda. It bought out 3 company's turning previous closed source software the company's owned into OSS software like netscape directory and GFS, sistina's VM. RedHat promises to spend 1/5th of their income on R&D of free software.
Now... What has Debian done for us? Thanks for apt-get.
Which side is "just packaging free software" again?
Some of us BUY RH because they take our money and INVENT software that is OSS, they don't just patch security flaws.
isn't there already some "splainin" to do seeing as they are open sourcing Solaris which supposedly they had to pay to use? I know I'm missing something but so far this translates to:
"We don't have to pay SCO, we just want to"
to me.
In America, first you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.
Then she files for divorce and you lose all 3.
$3000 from one customer increases sales much more then 1000 customers downloading RH for free .
By subscriptions and revenue. 90% renewal rates, 25% more subscriptions, and gaining their first major profits ever. And it appears to keep happening every quarter since.
1-xmms refuses to play MP3, moronic RH choice.
FC3 also fails to ship shrek 2, the new Eminem album , and MS Windows source code.
If RedHat's price raising is so bad why did their sales sky rocket, and continue increasing every quarter since the change? RedHat might be more expensive than it once was, but another thing is for sure too; RH a hell of a lot better quality than it was and people are buying it. You say it makes it harder to compete with Sun, but I say they've only just begun to compete with Sun cause now Linux kernel can do all those things only big UNIX could do.
According to comment no 161 on this page it still has the bug.
Then why is everyone on this thread (including myself) not having problems duel booting XP and FC3?
I hit this bug in FC2 so I know it could happen to me. But FC3 install went without a hitch.
Parent doesn't run Fedora, has no idea what he's talking about. If you really want to know what Fedora's goal is read it on their site. Not from someone on slashdot telling you that It's a beta that doesn't get tested, I've been testing this release since early July thank you.
Also I believe sourceforge switched from Debian to FC2 to serve up those TB's of data. That should show Fedora is pretty stable. Atleast more stable than It's given credit for.
you down with P2P you down with P2P I.M. me.
Graduating a higher percentage doesn't mean better schools. In fact, it could mean lower standards...
l e_2.htm
Yeah California and New York have high education standards hehe.
The mods take down the guy who posted facts (here they are btw) http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_31_tab
and mod +5 the guy with the "but, but..." retort that has absoultly no basis in fact. I'll ofcourse now be modded down for pointing this out. I love it
Or Debian, or Slackware, or...
Indeed, It should be noted that Red Hat wasn't asked to be a part of this standard until 6 hours before the announcement was made: "hey RedHat we made a new standard, you have half a day to be standards compliant, thanks -United Linux"
People should be aware of what this really was, SuSE attempting to be what RedHat already was.
Microsoft says, "See? TCO for Linux rises because you need to be ready to pay the legal costs of defending yourself.
I'm not sure It's that simple. I read an article over the weekend that said M$ spent more on Linux than any other company this year because of the Novell and Sun billions they forked out. That money is likely to be put into Linux atleast in some cases. You don't give your competition a few billion dollars just for an "i told you so".
You're exactly right
They've spent the last 2 years accumulating as many patents as they could, some of them incredibly silly. They are getting ready to mount a legal attack, perhaps to the wine/NTFS/mono(?) distro's of the world. There might be something to this sue the customer thing cause MS has just gave a couple billion to linux companies (novell/sun) in order to clear their name. When they come for linux they sound like they'll come for its customers. Again, I don't know if they can win but they seem to be spending billions which says they atleast think they can.
Blogs have passed being ignored, emerging from laughter, and starting to be seriously attacked.
Not by me, I still laugh at blogs and anyone who takes them seriously. Personally I like my news sources to be forced to have some form of credibility attached to them. When CBS screws up it hits other news outlets and they attack CBS for its screw up and gives an apology. I'm not sure a blog much less a biast blog has any pressure to admit a screw up or 'fuzzy stats'.
good post, I knew it was written by yellow dog, bad wording i guess. Also I think there were some other 'technical' reasons for using yum infavor of apt, there was mirrors, but also something about arch? easy to intergrate into up2date? I can't remember now.
support for all the architectures debian runs on
Which brings us back to the "real reasons" Fedora doesn't use apt. It was not written for RPM just like anaconda was not written for sparc. Thats kinda the point I was making. Personally I still think both would have been better off using the others work, anaconda is excellent so is apt. oh well.
screenshot link is already slashdotted here's another site.
Those screenshots are from test 2, in test 3 updates some things changed so those screenshots are not completly accurate, for instance there are two task bars now like most other gnome distros.