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Samsung Develops Power-Sipping DDR4 Memory

Alex writes with this excerpt from TechSpot: "Samsung Electronics has announced that it completed development of the industry's first DDR4 DRAM module last month, using 30nm class process technology, and provided 1.2V 2GB DDR4 unbuffered dual in-line memory modules (UDIMM) to a controller maker for testing. The new DDR4 DRAM module can achieve data transfer rates of 2.133Gbps at 1.2V, compared to 1.35V and 1.5V DDR3 DRAM at an equivalent 30nm-class process technology, with speeds of up to 1.6Gbps. In a notebook, the DDR4 module reduces power consumption by 40 percent compared to a 1.5V DDR3 module. The module makes use of Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology, which allows DDR4 DRAM to consume just half the electric current of DDR3 when reading and writing data."

152 comments

  1. How much power comparatively? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 2

    In a typical notebook, how much power does memory actually consume compared to other components (CPU, HD, screen, wireless transmitter etc..)?

    1. Re:How much power comparatively? by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      Leave your laptop in Sleep mode.. It will last many hours but it will eventually get critically low and shut down..

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    2. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, how many watts does DDR4 chew compared to DDR3?

    3. Re:How much power comparatively? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Good question, I don't have a direct answer however I found a desktop memory review here. Given that they found a 7W difference under full load and power scales to voltage squared (1.64^2) / (1.34^2) = 1.5 you can estimate it draws 14W at low voltage and 21W at high voltage.

      Of course in a laptop you'll have a quite different low-power RAM like you have low-power CPUs but I'm guesstimating that yes it's significant. If you have a CPU that draws 30W at max, the RAM probably draws 5-10W too. Divide everything by two for the ULV versions. Also more RAM may mean more get cached so the hard disk rests more and the CPU can get faster back to idle, so the effect on real world power consumption isn't that easy to say.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:How much power comparatively? by c0lo · · Score: 1
      Interesting question. Wild guess: up to 5-8 watts?

      Some data on what other components consume. Not very rigorously determined, but good to make an idea.

      Some other data on how much switching from 1.5V to 1.35V to 1.25V DDR3 type of RAM impacts the power consumption at idle time (scroll to the bottom of the page: 1W).

      The RAM power consumption will have, though, an impact on how long you can keep a laptop/notebook on idle (so, little CPU, no HDD and LCD, no graphics) before it shuts down and you loose everything you had in RAM (if this matters to someone).

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:How much power comparatively? by MachDelta · · Score: 1

      Hardly any. I remember skimming through a study of component power consumption and IIRC memory topped out at something like 5% total draw. So memory with half the power draw will buy you about 10 minutes.
      Whoopdeefuckingdoo.

    6. Re:How much power comparatively? by NoSig · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sleep mode leaves the ram powered but powers down most other things, is what I think he is saying. So ram may be the most significant power consumer for sleep mode.

    7. Re:How much power comparatively? by PatPending · · Score: 5, Funny

      Didn't you read the title of the summary? It doesn't "chew," it "sips."

      --
      What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    8. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cpu and graphics dont use too much power when in sleep mode if at all. The only thing that stays on is the RAM to keep the data alive.

    9. Re:How much power comparatively? by galvanash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hardly any. I remember skimming through a study of component power consumption and IIRC memory topped out at something like 5% total draw. So memory with half the power draw will buy you about 10 minutes. Whoopdeefuckingdoo.

      That is with the display turned on... Most portable devices spend a considerable amount of time with the display turned off to conserve power. To put this into perspective, on an HTC Desire android device with an AMOLED display the screen uses about 50%-60% of total power, memory is probably like you said around 5% (I have never seen hard numbers for the power draw only for memory, but 5% is probably close). If it is 5% with the display on, it would be around 15% or so when it is off, which is quite a bit more significant. Also, memory always uses power - even when it is not storing anything useful... Hence the more memory the device has the more power the RAM draws. Just saying, cutting RAM power use in half can be quite significant. It might be 10 minutes if you are using the device constantly, but it could well be an hour or more of extra standby time depending on how heavily you use the device.

      --
      - sigs are stupid
    10. Re:How much power comparatively? by ashkante · · Score: 1

      Every little bit (or watt, as the case may be) counts.
      We should now 'encourage' the vendors of CPU, HD, screen... to reduce power consumption. The easiest thing to do is say: "Meh, my component uses way less power than everything else". Then you end up with a laptop power adapter that is larger than the laptop itself and allows you to boil water for coffee.

    11. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't agree - at all. You must ignore what he's speaking about?

    12. Re:How much power comparatively? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      It was completely helpful. When in sleep mode, the RAM is powered up, but most everything else is turned off. Thus you can develop an intuition of how much power RAM takes compared to the other components.

      I can't say for sure the power draw from all the components, especially since they vary, but this processor draws 600 watts. Now that's what's known as an unhelpful response.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:How much power comparatively? by satuon · · Score: 1

      So this raises another interesting question - do laptops with less RAM have better battery life and if so, should people refrain from getting laptops with more than 2 GB? That is more than enough for normal usage. Maybe bleeding edge games would require more.

    14. Re:How much power comparatively? by Hoolang · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Now, lets pair this with a ARM core and hope we get a reasonable hack that allows a wireless that does not eat power like the current ones..... LED Tube T8

    15. Re:How much power comparatively? by wizardforce · · Score: 2

      power consumption = heat that needs to be removed. Heat becomes a bigger problem the smaller the components are. Reduce the amount of heat produced and you've just made it easier to produce even smaller components.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    16. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wait, I thought one of the selling points of DDR was that you burned calories while you played the game---exercise disguised as entertainment.
      If the new DDR4 doesn't burn through as many watts of biochemical energy, it won't be nearly as useful as an exercise tool!
      Was Samsung losing the couch-potato-gamer market?
      -os

    17. Re:How much power comparatively? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      I have seen Mac laptops what can last over month in sleep. But PC's what eats their battery in few days or even hours. Even that they do have same capacity on batteries and almost identical CPU model.

      I have older memories (heh) of power consumes being in active use a 1-1.5W but in sleepmode something like 0.2W.

    18. Re:How much power comparatively? by Jurily · · Score: 1

      So ram may be the most significant power consumer for sleep mode.

      Not to mention when it's sleeping because the battery is low.

    19. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but the excerpt tantalizes us about the new memories power sipping during reading and writing memory

    20. Re:How much power comparatively? by Rennt · · Score: 1

      That tells you how much all the turned-off stuff uses.

      Does it? Lets say you have a laptop with a 7800mAh battery that lasts on sleep mode for 18 hours. Wouldn't that would mean the RAM draws 433mA ?

    21. Re:How much power comparatively? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Which is why I think the next big breakthrough (which will make someone Bill Gates rich) will be the ability to selectively turn memory cells off just as we can turns parts of the CPU/GPU off in AMD and Intel chips (from what I understand Nvidia is pretty much "all or nothing" except on Tegra). what one would have to develop is a "smart controller" most likely on the RAM module itself, one that knew which cells were in use and when given the "we are in low power mode" signal by the OS would have the ability to electrically isolate the running cells and power down the non working set.

      IMHO it is that which will make the next big leap, not all this DDR slight decreases which IMHO just serve to keep the price of RAM raised. I mean we are just now getting to where DDR 3 is affordable! Besides unfortunately all the mobile devices try to rip off Apple with their iSliver batteries so the public have been pretty well trained to keep a charger handy. Even if you are talking a 20% gain with these micro ultra thin batteries that really won't be much. But the ones that figure out how to selectively turn off cells, they will be the ones to make incredible amounts of money especially if they patent the hell out of it. After all it will be able to have an assload of RAM, yet use almost nothing when sleeping. Who wouldn't want that?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    22. Re:How much power comparatively? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      How about this: you can double the amount of RAM for the same power budget. Batteries are not getting better as fast as we would like to use more RAM.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is a lower limit, since more power is used when ram is actively being written to /read from

    24. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DRAMs have suported self-refresh, which is basically what you're proposing, for quite a while. In DRAMs, the majority of the power comes from toggling the IOs, not maintaining the state of the bitcells. Reducing the voltage has a quadratic effect on power consumption.

    25. Re:How much power comparatively? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      I highly doubt that those sleep modes are the same. Mac hardware is not magical, so I'd assume it automatically goes into hibernation after a while.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    26. Re:How much power comparatively? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my windows notebook does the same. Close the top down, it goes to sleep after 1 hour (configurable) it will go into hibernation. I seriously doubt that any notebook could maintain sleep mode for months. Although a nice feature would be a small solid state drive the same size as RAM to hibernate to in order to speed up the wake-up process. When you have 4GB of RAM, coming out of hibernation takes almost as much time as doing a fresh boot, however with the advantage of not having to restart all your programs.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    27. Re:How much power comparatively? by dwinks616 · · Score: 1

      The moment the hard drive spins up to try and page a program to disk, any power savings is more than negated. I wouldn't consider 2GB as "more than enough", maybe 3 or 4GB, but 2 is barely acceptable for running a modern browser with dozens of tabs open, an office program or two, and a few other productivity apps and maybe something like iTunes.

    28. Re:How much power comparatively? by MBCook · · Score: 1

      Turning off DIMMs can be done. Some high end servers will let you add/remove RAM on the fly, it's basically the same thing except the RAM isn't physically going anywhere.

      There are two problems you'd run into. First you'd have to move everything to the DIMMs that you're keeping on. This means that all the pointers would change, so you'd have to have a way to keep track of that. If you moved things and then moved them back when the power came 'back on', that may suffice.

      The second is how much stuff is in memory in the first place. Programs keep tons of junk in memory as caches because it's faster than disk (and when not under memory pressure, it's 'free'). You'd have to notify programs (like iOS does) that there is a memory pressure situation and to dump stuff they can recreate so you could turn off more DIMMs. Of course, this means performance would be worse when you came back up because you'd have to recreate that data or load it back off disk. So basically it would feel like suspending to disk, only slightly faster.

      This seems most useful if you had a ton of free memory. Right now my Mac has iTunes open, mail, and an RSS reader. It's not doing much, but because of all the data in cache to keep programs opening fast only about 1/6 to 1/8th of my 4GB of memory is totally unused.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    29. Re:How much power comparatively? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Yup, he's wrong. Macs use 'safe sleep'. They suspend to RAM and also suspend to disk. If the battery dies, they restore from the on-disk state, otherwise they restore from the in-RAM state. My MacBook Pro will happily resume from sleep after a month, but only if you plug it in. The battery will be flat in well under a week.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    30. Re:How much power comparatively? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It depends on the workload. No modern OS that I'm aware of powers down the RAM, so if you have a laptop with 8GB of RAM and are only using 2GB, then you will probably get lower power usage. If you have more RAM, however, the OS will cache more things. That means fewer disk reads, which reduces power usage. It may also reduce the CPU power load, because it may not be able to go into a low power state while handling a page fault.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    31. Re:How much power comparatively? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      First you'd have to move everything to the DIMMs that you're keeping on. This means that all the pointers would change, so you'd have to have a way to keep track of that.

      Fortunately, if you come from some time after the 1980s, this is done already. Nothing except the kernel sees physical memory addresses, they see virtual memory addresses. These are mapped to the physical address by the MMU / page tables, and often do change over the apps lifetime (e.g. when a page is swapped out then in, it is not always returned to the same physical page).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    32. Re:How much power comparatively? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      In my 4 year old desktop (E6300 processor; 4x1GB ram; nVidia 9500 GT; 2x HDD), total power draw goes between 150watts and 220 (full load) watts, as measured by an in-line watt meter.

      Laptops tend to use quite a bit less power; 15-60watts is what I found from some quick googling, and the last laptop I had was around 18 watts as measured with laptop-tools under linux.

      This indicates 10 watts for DDR2, vs 4 watts for DDR3, vs (presumably) 4*.6= 2.4 watts for DDR4. Not sure whether that link is accurate, or whether that is accurate for laptops; take it with a grain of salt.

    33. Re:How much power comparatively? by Wain13001 · · Score: 2

      It tells you nothing about the ONE UNCHANGED FUCKING VARIABLE...

      Not very good at the pre-algebra are we?

      Here's a hint, x+y

    34. Re:How much power comparatively? by MarkCollette · · Score: 1

      With DRAM, you have to power the memory, or it loses the data. You would have to use a completely different type of memory to actually power it down, regardless of whether it's currently being read from or written to.

    35. Re:How much power comparatively? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      No Mark, you aren't seeing what I'm getting at. Picture a RAM chip, with 16 chips in it, but only 4 of those chips are actually being used. What I'm talking about is powering down the other 12 since they are just wasting energy. It is the same way that most of the time that new ATI card will NOT be 320 stream processors, or whatever you paid for, it will instead be 24 or 48 or 72. That is because ATI selectively turns off nodes that aren't needed, lowering power requirements. that is also why the new Nvidia chips are "little piggy space heaters" because from what I've been told the NV chips are "all or nothing" with no in between.

      RAM that isn't be used is simply wasted power. Now on a desktop that means nothing but on a mobile that means a hell of a lot. With my idea you could say have the cell phone have lots of RAM and high performance when using apps, but turn off most of that RAM when it is in your pocket waiting for a call. if one was to pair this with some high speed SSD so that all but a tiny core could be paged to SSD when not needed? Well I bet we would finally have all day devices even with those lousy iSliver batteries everyone seems to end up with.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    36. Re:How much power comparatively? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      WTH? Another genius with a billion dollar idea? Sorry, but no...

      There's no such thing as unused memory, and hasn't been for a couple decades. Any portions of memory not allocated by programs are used to cache data read from the disk...

      So shutting them off will mildly reduce power consumption, right up until one bit of that cached data is needed... then, hitting up the disk will consume more power than you ever saved, and as an added bonus, you've taken a performance hit, too.

      SSDs don't change that fact, either, they just make it slightly less expensive. And if there was any benefit to be had, manufacturers would just ship devices with much less memory, and maybe a bit swapfile on the ssd. No matter how you slice it, your idea makes no sense.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    37. Re:How much power comparatively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, many DRAM chips have various power states and so sleep mode can take advantage of these to reduce how frequently a DRAM chip is refreshed or to turn off its row buffer (the dominant contributor of DIMM power consumption).

      Also, I'm not sure how much DRAM contributes to laptop power consumption, but in enterprise servers, it can be up to 40% of total power consumption [Huang et al., ISLPED 2005].

    38. Re:How much power comparatively? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      The problem is that you are assuming that the RAM is the only thing drawing power when in sleep mode. This may or may not be true. The "wake-on..." devices all consume power, especially something like wake-on-wifi / WoWLAN.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  2. Fuck off! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I just bought my Sandy Bridge rig, now they announce this?! Ffffffuuuuuuuuu-

  3. Good news by del_diablo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now, lets pair this with a ARM core and hope we get a reasonable hack that allows a wireless that does not eat power like the current ones.....
    Then lets enjoy our ARM-puter: Portable, powerful, and battery for more than a day of use.

    1. Re:Good news by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Not happening. Higher-frequency transmissions need more power to go further. Lower frequencies don't carry as much data, so there's a huge trade-off in play.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, in that case, the bit that eats power like the current ones is the wireless bit, itself and that's not going to change. To quote a famous TV engineer, we "cannae change the laws of physics". What we need is better battery technology... which is being worked on as well, so, hey, maybe someday.
       

    3. Re:Good news by LordLucless · · Score: 2

      Or just connect smarter - my n900 connects to wireless networks on demand and auto disconnects when not in use. I can get 1.5 - 2 days of light usage off its battery.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    4. Re:Good news by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      Can't we bribe god for faster light or something instead? :(
      But has battery tech evolved anything at all in the last 10 years? I think IBM thinkpads had 6-7 hours of battery life back in the glory days, the "improvements" in battery tech so far seems to consist of getting rid of the battery decay problem, not adding in more power.

    5. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can get 1.5 - 2 days of light usage off its battery.

      If that's what's considered to be a good battery life, you've just put me off buying a smartphone forever.

    6. Re:Good news by TeXMaster · · Score: 1

      I can get 1.5 - 2 days of light usage off its battery.

      If that's what's considered to be a good battery life, you've just put me off buying a smartphone forever.

      If you get a smartphone, forget about going without recharging for a week or more as you were used to with "dump" phones. 2 days is sadly actually a pretty good battery life for "smart" phones, where 24-30 hrs are the typical durations. Although comparing it to the dum phones battery life makes it look abysmal, consider that it's easily 3 or 4 times longer than the best you get even from the most power-efficient netbook.

      --
      "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    7. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your wireless access point is going to be constantly spewing out "here I am!" signals anyway, so why not use that? Make a new protocol that allows for one side of the connection to use directional steerable antennas, permitting laptops to stop broadcasting everything. Theoretically, that gets you power savings. Practically, I doubt it's worth the bother.

    8. Re:Good news by bami · · Score: 1

      My Nokia E71 (And I guess the E72 too) can run for about a week with moderate browsing, and about 4 days if you use it to listen to music, browse the web all day and use wifi. I also think it qualifies as a smartphone since it can run 3rd party apps, has GPS and can browse the internets.

    9. Re:Good news by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      My ZTE Blade (Super bright TFT, 512 RAM, 5Mpix cam) smartphone gives me a 9½ hour heavy use battery = 100% constant WiFi use by browsing web + installing apps and uninstalling them or 4-4½ hours of talk time.
      With light daily use I get 2-3 days use time = read every email what I get daily (about 30 from post-list + random emails about 7-10), make a few calls (30-45 minutes) and send a few SMS (1-3), browse web to check a few web sites over 3G/WiFi what takes about 30-40 minutes and in the background I have MSN/Skype and IRC running all the time for whats I spend maybe 30-50 minutes a day and listen music for 45-60 minutes (train takes 30 minutes to one way). All the times I have 3G(+) connected and when on school/office/home I have WiFi if the connection is over 10Mbits. Otherwise I use 3G what gives me a unlimited speed/amount (7.2Mbits/0.4Mbits) and usually the speed is full.

      I dont play games or watch videos (youtube etc) daily, very rare cases for me.

      But when I go camping, I get 8-9 day time when I dont talk more than few minutes every second day or send SMS once a day. So I can keep my phone on every day and with me in case of emergency.

      And that is very well from 1250mAh battery for TFT screen what resolution is 480x800. Amoled could give me in heavy use a 30-60 minutes more or in daily use 6-12 hours and not change at all the camping time.

      It really is nice phone when thinking that I can use phone almost anyway I want the whole day and I need to recharge it just on nights. But as I only do light use I need to recharge every second night.
      But by habits is going to be changed as now I added to the contract the service for having a unlimited talk time per day for max 0.99€ (~1.2 dollar) or just 6.6 cents a minute (what gives me 15 minutes until the max .99€ limit comes and then I can just continue talking).
      So I am expecting I need to recharge at evening because if I make a 2-3 hour talks at daytime.

       

    10. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many Feature/Dumb Phones can do those things.

    11. Re:Good news by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      It really is little strange how you could speak with 10 years old GSM phones even 5-10 hours and now with smartphones you can talk only a 3-5 hours. Even that screen, GPS/WiFi/3G etc are turned off and the phone has bigger battery.

      Something in the GSM chips is changed so we do not get so great talk times. I could understand the difference if the displays would be turned on in smartphones when talking.

      Like check out the Samsung Xcover 271 what gives you even a 19 HOURS talk time on 2G networks or 600 hours stand by time what is 25 DAYS! And it has a 1300mAh battery what is very similar for many smartphones and they give just a fractional talk- and stand by time when compared to that phone. Even that when the screen would be turned off and all other wireless functions than just 2G.

      SOMETHING is very terribly wrong in smartphones. I would call todays "Smartphones" a "dumb phones" and GSM-only phones as "Smart phones" as they really acts like a MOBILE PHONE by smart way, while "Smartphones" throws all the juice somewhere else than PHONE functions.

    12. Re:Good news by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

      Can't we bribe god...

      He seems to be against that sort of thing.

      Proverbs 17:23 The wicked accepts a bribe in secret to pervert the ways of justice.
      Ecclesiastes 7:7 Surely oppression drives the wise into madness, and a bribe corrupts the heart.
      Isaiah 5:23 Who acquit the guilty for a bribe, and deprive the innocent of his right!

      It goes on and on...

      Although, prayer might work, I wouldn't hold my breath.

      --


      "Lame" - Galaxar
    13. Re:Good news by puto · · Score: 1

      I have a Nokia E63, which is considered a smart phone. I didnt want gps(it sucks power) and I can go 5 days on a charge. I only use wifi and bluetooth when I need them.

      --
      The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
    14. Re:Good news by Thantik · · Score: 1

      But why hasn't somebody developed some low-frequency wireless that is suitable for internet speeds? (Other than the obvious licensing restrictions?) Sure, wifi is great and getting 100+ mbps is awesome and all, but most US residents really only use wifi for the internet, not transferring huge files back and forth. Someone needs something that's limited to 20mbps or so, but at a lower frequency for increased range/penetration.

    15. Re:Good news by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Lower frequencies don't carry as much data, as I stated before.

      Also, bear in mind that for each extra device connected to the wireless access point, that's less available bandwidth overall. That 54mpbs rating for 802.11g is a pooled rating, meaning every time you add a new client onto the AP you lose some bandwidth - not every single person gets 54mbps throughput unless you're the only person using that access point/that channel.

      Also, most the lower frequencies are already allocated for certain services by the FCC, and thus you can't put internet on those wavelengths without risk of interrupting those services. Going into any of the areas unlicensed would likely be a big headache as there's very little bandwidth in those ranges anyways.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    16. Re:Good news by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      But why hasn't somebody developed some low-frequency wireless that is suitable for internet speeds?

      Because lower frequency means slower data transfer. They're directly related. And 20 Mbps is seriously overestimating the current speed of wireless technology.

    17. Re:Good news by Thantik · · Score: 1

      How many people seriously use 100% of that 54mbps of wireless...constantly? It's just like ISPs overselling bandwidth; most of the time it goes underutilized. It would be fine to have 20 devices on a 20mpbs wifi connection...they aren't going to be saturating it in a normal household.

    18. Re:Good news by DCFusor · · Score: 1
      Diablo, you get it, but it seems no one else does. You could make a computer comparable to one a few years back, say, with incredible battery life, but no one does. Marketing, and to some extent, the idiocy of customers who bought into that marketing. I find for example that with decent code, an old pentium 3 is just fine, and nowadays you could make a very low power consumption machine with equivalent computational power, such that batteries would last quite awhile.

      But it wouldn't allow people to believe that since they had the shinest, newest, hottest thing, it would increase their chances of getting laid, so only people who actually give a crap about the functionality and usefulness for other than jacking off kinds of things would ever buy it, and due to sociological realities, that's a tiny fraction of the people with money in their pockets.

      It is inevitable that wireless is going to eat some power, and just turning it off when not in use doesn't solve it all, as when a link is lost, any real protocol has to spend some time, and therefore power, getting connected again with a few messages back and forth, to eliminate issues with more than one user in the same bandwidth. It doesn't necessarily take more power at higher frequencies (theoretically), actually there's more noise to overcome at lower frequencies in the limit -- atmospherics etc. Comparing high to higher, well, the issues are different as we are talking absorption coefficients in building materials etc. It's bandwidth that takes power to get good enough SNR, this is real basic information theory, and yes, I'm a signal processing engineer (now retired). With directional antennas, wow, you can really cut power down (20 db not uncommon, 100::1 for those of you who don't have much clue) but then, talk about the "holding it right" issues!

      I in fact have some specially built p3 tualitin systems that don't need fans, draw about 9 whole watts for the CPU, and maybe 20 for the box, and this is years-old tech. I still use them and will bemoan their loss when they finally die. One could do far better now, of course, but the real issue is -- can you make money selling them. Most people are too stupid to realize the value of something that "just works" in this way -- never having to worry about low battery in this case. Or buying new ones all the time when the ones you had reach their cycle lifetime limits.

      Part of it is also ignorant designers, usually ones with little experience. I have a Dell laptop from back in the day which makes a good example. They put in gonzo CPU, gonzo graphics (for the time), it was thick and heavy, and would roast your goodies, you really couldn't use it on your lap, and battery life was terrible. Despite all that, it was dog-slow. Why? Slow memory, and very slow disk, to "save power". That's simple ignorance on the part of the designer. A design that could get things done quick and then power down when not doing much would have made a lot more sense, even then, and I custom built some non-pc type systems for miltary use back in the day that did just that. It turned out to be cheaper per mip to go ahead and use the quick stuff, and just turn it off when not needed because the way we did it (all static ram for example) there was no time penalty for coming back out of sleep. Zero. Compared to the CMOS of the day, it kicked totally because when you really needed it, it really had the stuff. The rest of the time, it drew diddly power, just like CMOS. Sad to say, even in that day, the army was more intelligent than today's brainwashed consumer? Ow, that stings.

      Of course, bloatware like windows didn't exist then, and we predated color on most home computers quite a bit by using a tiny sony color TV as the monitor, and our own graphics generator. We didn't know what we were "missing" I suppose.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    19. Re:Good news by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I saturate it easily just with my favorite video chat program (100 live web cam streams simultaneously,) in fact I had to upgrade to an 802.11n router so I could have the extra bandwidth and better QoS using my video chat program while I torrent.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    20. Re:Good news by Thantik · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because saturating an 802.11n connection is a COMMON thing, right? Please, spare me. Even Verizon Fios, which is practically the fastest thing you can get in the united states right now, couldn't saturate 802.11n.

    21. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't saturate the best 802.11n home network with a home internet connection, true. But you will if you add a home fileserver to the mix. From desktop experience: a single hard drive from a few years ago can write at 80 megabytes/second, even when kinda fragmented and nearly full. (This based on moving a few GB at a time, drive-to-drive in my desktop, even with one of them being a 'green' (slow) drive). Wiki says 4-channel 802.11n gets up to 600 mbits, and my old drive writes at 640 mbits. If I had n instead of g, and made a network share (desktop is wired, btw), I could saturate that n network just trivially using it, and anyone else in the house would be fighting for wireless bandwidth. (Or I'd be fighting myself, trying to use the share while also using the internet). Even using ONLY the file transfer, the transfer speed would be bottlenecked a bit by the network's limitations.

    22. Re:Good news by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Bad news... The screen is probably consuming more power than all other components, combined. Even if the display is of f the majority of the time . This may not be true if you use your device as an mp 3 player, but otherwise, display power consumption overwhelmingly dominates...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    23. Re:Good news by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Yeah, because saturating an 802.11n connection is a COMMON thing, right?"

      It's as common as saturating my gigabit ethernet link, which is done DAILY.

      You like to assume. Hi, I'm a research director with more equipment than you could possibly DREAM OF.

      I could blow through TWENTY TERABYTES daily if given the pipeline.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    24. Re:Good news by Thantik · · Score: 1

      Earth to Khyber; to the home internet user...THAT IS NOT COMMON.

    25. Re:Good news by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Are you sure about that? When I ran a home cleaning business, I saw many people torrent/limewire/kazaa/youtubing their equipment to death, not to mention some of the internal network traffic (one guy had a gig-e router hooked up to a 24 port 10baset hub.. the packet collisions..... so many..)

      Also, you need to think globally, not locally in the USA where bandwidth is bullshit (although FiOS has forced the others to up their shit recently,) still not as good as Japan with HOME GIGABIT INTERNET which could suck down far more than I use internally and externally on a daily basis.

      Also, the Camfrog community is *HUGE* and consists primarily of home users. It just got acquired by Paltalk, which makes Paltalk the largest videochat community on the internet.

      Guess how much bandwidth that chews up?

      Yea, as I said, it chews up way more than you think.

      And that's NORMAL HOME USERS.

      Step out of the basement. What was true 5 years ago isn't true now.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  4. CPU, HDD, WiFi - RAM doesn't matter by flyingfsck · · Score: 0

    Most power goes to the CPU, HDD and WiFi devices. The power consumption of the RAM is minimal.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:CPU, HDD, WiFi - RAM doesn't matter by PatPending · · Score: 1

      You forgot some things: in particular, the GPU and DVD
      The full story: Revisiting "How Much Power Does My Laptop Really Use"?
      Graph

      --
      What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    2. Re:CPU, HDD, WiFi - RAM doesn't matter by splerdu · · Score: 1

      If they decide the decreased power draw isn't as important, they could could increase performance significantly by running DDR4 at current DDR3 voltages.

    3. Re:CPU, HDD, WiFi - RAM doesn't matter by geoffball · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if you're looking at laptops or desktops. But when you start talking server class machines and you start jamming DIMMs in them for large database, virtualization clusters, or other high memory applications, a few watts can make a big difference. The current generation of DDR3 low power DIMMs usable with the Westmere chipsets have brought server power consumption down 30-50 watts (72 GB RAM configuration). With advancements like this, you can further increase memory density within servers and/or server density within data centers. A 5-10% improvement in server power utilization has significant financial impacts. Many data centers are power constrained not space constrained. Better utilized data centers means longer time between needing new physical space. Data center space is kind of expensive, especially in large server environments.

  5. "Power Sipping" by Aboroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does anyone else besides me hate that term?

    1. Re:"Power Sipping" by PatPending · · Score: 1
      Yes. (Well "dislike" instead of "hate"--hate is such a harsh term.) And I dislike it just as much as these:

      "Samsung has been actively supporting the IT industry with our green memory initiative by coming up with eco-friendly, innovative memory products providing higher performance and power efficiency every year," Dong Soo Jun, Samsung's president of the memory division, said in a statement.

      Add "ecosystem" as well.

      --
      What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    2. Re:"Power Sipping" by nyctopterus · · Score: 2

      In what context do you object to "ecosystem"? What word would you prefer we use for the system of biological interdependency?

    3. Re:"Power Sipping" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as opposed to "POWER SUCKING"?
      hmmmm that has a certain ring to it....

    4. Re:"Power Sipping" by PatPending · · Score: 1
      There's only one appropriate usage and that is (as you indicated): biological.
      These are inappropriate usage, taken from the first page search results querying /. for 'ecosystem':
      • Java ecosystem
      • FLOSS ecosystem
      • to make sure that what we do maximizes innovation and investment across the ecosystem
      • 'Open Web App ecosystem.'
      • Microsoft Server ecosystem
      • "Drools (sometimes called 'JBoss Rules') is a Business Rules Engine and supporting ecosystem"
      • SDK ecosystem
      • PostgreSQL ecosystem
      • Internet ecosystem
      • what if Oracle bought up the entire open source ecosystem?
      • the President's Cyberspace Policy Review, calls for the creation of an online environment, or an Identity Ecosystem as we refer to it in the strategy

      Only one story had acceptable usage: "Another fear is that geo-engineering, as techniques like this are called, could have unforeseen consequences on the weather, ecosystem and agriculture."

      --
      What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    5. Re:"Power Sipping" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I hate it. It's too vague.
      Every generation of computer technology has used less power than the last on average.

      And there's something about the "s" sound. The S Is For Sucks.

    6. Re:"Power Sipping" by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Power Sipping belongs in the same family as Speed Walking.

      OTOH, sounds like someone might have a case of Powerthirst.

    7. Re:"Power Sipping" by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Yep.

      And 'renewable energy'. What's renewable about it?

    8. Re:"Power Sipping" by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Don't anthropomorphize DRAM devices - they hate that.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  6. Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology by PatPending · · Score: 3, Funny


    PatPending (talking to friend on phone during a bash help session): It's called Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology
    Friend: Okay, I'll try that...
    Friend(typing): sudo open drain
    Friend: Argh! I hate this command line bullshit!

    --
    What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    1. Re:Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      It didn't work because it's Pseudo science./

    2. Re:Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > sudo science

      sumdumass is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.

    3. Re:Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology by lennier1 · · Score: 0

      Obligatory xkcd reference:
      http://xkcd.com/149/

    4. Re:Pseudo Open Drain (POD) technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up. Please.

  7. Pseudo-open drain? by AdamHaun · · Score: 1

    What's up with the pseudo-open drain? Is that new and exciting or just marketing speak? I know what open drain is, but how do you have a "pseudo" open drain?

    --
    Visit the
    1. Re:Pseudo-open drain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's an extension to a push-pull coupling.

  8. Idle power reduction? by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

    One thing not mentioned in the article or summary is whether or not this technology reduces standby power consumption in DRAM. Under normal use, especially if you have a lot of memory in your system, the standby power consumption is going to matter as much as read/write, if not more.

    1. Re:Idle power reduction? by Jayemji · · Score: 1

      Have the RAM dump into a non-volatile solid state chip? (eg. flash) It would allow for very fast power on/off while keeping the power draw really low.

    2. Re:Idle power reduction? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Take a look at the write speeds on cheap flash and realize that even laptops are coming with 4GB of RAM these days before you make a suggestion like this.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Re:Roll a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You're a faggot.

  10. Meh by lennier1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd rather have them finally mass-produce 8 and 16 GB modules for the desktop market.

    1. Re:Meh by war4peace · · Score: 2

      Sir, you have my vote.
      Actually, less swap means less HDD churning, so the power consumption might be the same even with addition of more RAM.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:Meh by alienzed · · Score: 0

      what "Desktop" user needs that much, or even runs an operating system that can address it?

      --
      Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
    3. Re:Meh by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      what "Desktop" user needs that much, or even runs an operating system that can address it?

      Need we can discuss, but the price difference between Win7 32 and 64 bit versions is ~0 and I've not heard anyone complain about 64 bit drivers anymore. Mac I think is the same and Linux has of course supported 64 bit forever. Unless you're talking about an Atom that's not 64 bit capable, there's no particular reason not to get an OS capable. That is unless you still want to wipe a new box and install XP...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Meh by chichilalescu · · Score: 2

      kjella was kind enough to discuss the operating system.
      now, regarding the use: games, desktop effects, working with extremely large files (highschoolers editing movies), ridiculously large images, and so on. I won't mention actual professions.
      Anyway, the first hint is "Desktop" user. someone who only wants instant messaging and facebook will be satisfied with a laptop.

      --
      new sig
    5. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      As someone who regularly edits images larger than 100 megapixels with multiple layers in 16bbp let me just say, why the heck would you want that much on your desktop?

    6. Re:Meh by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      Also note that 32-bit operating systems can still make use of larger system memory sizes. Kernel memory usage is limited, and each process might only see 2GB of it (or more, in some special cases), but the operating system can easily divvy out 8GB+ of RAM between them all.

    7. Re:Meh by lennier1 · · Score: 2

      what "Desktop" user needs that much, or even runs an operating system that can address it?

      Are you serious? The specs for Windows 7 list 192 GB as within its capabilities and even RHEL v6 had a theoretical limit of 1 TB. But it will be a while until desktops will have to deal with the 256 TB an amd64 CPU's 48-bit address space would allow in theory.

      I'm not talking about the usual game kiddies who only want to impress others with system stats which they can't fully utilize anyway. Even if some people don't like to see them grouped with the little toy in a teenager's bedroom, regular professional workstations are still using desktop components.
      Areas like professional 3D work eat RAM and CPU cycles for breakfast. And there also are professions like developers and administrators who need to run several virtual machines in the background throughout the day. There certainly is demand

    8. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, 200MB per layer, yeah, who cares. Try editing video without touching disk; that's a different story. Or really, just preloading everything so opening applications or playing games does not have to touch the hard drive (if you have ever used a computer with an SSD, you have seen how much a hard drive slows down a computer). Also, the same chips allow smartphones to have a reasonable amount of memory.

    9. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a professional developer who runs several virtual machines in the background throughout the day, I say bollocks.

      My current machine is a humble Pentium 4, with just 2 GB of RAM. It has been my main development _and_testing_ machine for years, and will be for the foreseeable future. Let me tell you that I don't see the need for more memory just yet.

      If you suffer from penis envy... that's another thing altogether.

    10. Re:Meh by Fri13 · · Score: 2

      Yes, demand is there, even it is small when compared to typical office/game use.
      Photographers, artists, 3D modeleres (hobbiest) etc. And of course gamers would already want 8-16Gb of RAM as it just makes everything so much nicer when you do not need to care about RAM use.

      Try opening a 50 12Mpix RAW photos open at once and edit them in photo manipulation program...

      So where are our cheap 8-16Gb blocks?

    11. Re:Meh by hcdejong · · Score: 2

      3D CAD. My colleagues regularly run into RAM limits with 4 GB.

    12. Re:Meh by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm going from 4GB to 8GB because I'm running low when running VMs and apps at the same time, and I am allergic to swap (so I have none.) It's not hard to imagine someone using four times as much as I'm using; by my own standards I'm not doing anything all that amazing any more.

      Sometimes I want to have a VM or two open and edit an image at the same time while a video encodes in the background. And that's just on three cores! My next desktop system will probably have at least eight, and even this system will probably be upgraded to six before I'm done with it. I suspect it has an upgrade to SSD coming in that time as well. No more RAM upgrades though, since I only have four slots and I'm not planning to re-sell any modules... and don't have anything else they would go into

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would love to be able to run several virtual desktops at the same time and not have it be a big deal. Thus far I haven't found reason to upgrade my old AMD 64, but if they can get memory big enough I might be able to justify needing more cores.

    14. Re:Meh by Fearan · · Score: 1

      A decrease in price, increase in DDR5 capacity modules would result in better, more detailed textures in games.

    15. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Mass produced desktop markets don't run 3D CAD. High-end workstations and servers hardly count and wouldn't be a major driver of the market.

      Sure there are plenty of applications for loads of RAM. Multiple huge VMs, 3D CAD, gigapixel photos, but that is a niche. What is a consumer driver for large cheap supplies of RAM?

    16. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You would have to admit though that running two VMs while encoding a movie and editing an image is not something the average consumer would do. Or not even taking into account the average consumer do you think there would be enough people with your (if I may say so) insane and highly taxing use of a computer to justify mass producing a product?

      I mean compare like a real catalyst for memory usage such as the release of Vista, where every new computer sold suddenly gobbled up 1.5GB of RAM just displaying the desktop. Back when all computers in the house ran Win XP my computer had 2GB of RAM and the rest 512MB. Now all the computers in the house have 2GB or more because of an OS upgrade (win 7 not vista). But unless the next facebook interface gets even slower I don't see any reason why an entire market would suddenly require huge loads of RAM.

      There will always be power users and workstations like 3D CAD, but it's hardly a large and profitable market.

    17. Re:Meh by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You would have to admit though that running two VMs while encoding a movie and editing an image is not something the average consumer would do.

      Actually, I think it's probably getting to where this kind of thing will be more common. The average consumer is getting more interested in video editing etc. Also many Windows 7 users have a virtual machine manager installed already to provide XP Mode, so it's not much of a jump to believe they might use a VM appliance... or to think they're already running a VM at least part of the time.

      do you think there would be enough people with your (if I may say so) insane and highly taxing use of a computer to justify mass producing a product?

      Not really, but amusingly, the original suggestion was to produce them "for the server market", I was only pointing out that there ARE desktop users who have these needs. Really, they're needed more for the server market. With that said, I would like more boatloads of RAM, please.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Meh by tygerstripes · · Score: 2

      I'm not judging here, just wondering: have you considered having more than one box? If money is no object then fair enough, but it sounds like you're shelling out a lot for top-notch hardware to do lots of mid-level tasks, when you distribute the work on a KVM setup. You'd save a bundle in hardware, reduce your VM overheads, and introduce some healthy redundancy for when that very expensive rig does something smokey and difficult to diagnose.

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    19. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I already have 8GB in my desktop system, and I'm only interested if they make ECC mandatory in the spec. 8GB of data is just too damn much to blindly assume all is perfect, all the time. Last month I had a single module silently go bad. Random lockups, odd behaviors, and iTunes always rechecking my music database. Not until I ran memtest86 did I realize a huge swath of memory was completely incorrect. So, meanwhile, as the computer assumes everything is perfect, things like my iTunes database was slowly being corrupted. If DDR4 doesn't have ECC, then DDR5 better damn well.

    20. Re:Meh by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2

      Unless you're talking about an Atom that's not 64 bit capable

      So, I'm just imagining running a 330 and D510 with a 64-bit operating system? Now, of course, you can't find Atom motherboards that support more than 4GB RAM and the two I run have only 4GB RAM and some of it is "stolen" by the graphics card.

      From what I understood, Atoms can't address more than 4GB though, but running 64-bit instructions is no problem.

      Apart from that: yes, modern Atom CPUs do run 64-bit operating systems.

    21. Re:Meh by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Do you mean virtual desktops or desktop virtualization?
      The virtual desktop does not eat RAM more than one. We have had virtual desktops now over a decade.
      But desktop virtualization eats RAM and a lot if you run them from VirtualBox or similars.

      I currently have a 512Mb RAM and I have 6 virtual desktops without problems. I could have 32 without problems.
      But because I only have 512 RAM, I can only run browser and music player at same time without heavy swapping with GNOME. And it does not matter how many virtual desktops I have enabled.
      But with that RAM I can not even have single desktop virtualized as it needs at least 1Gb of RAM.

    22. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mac I think is the same...

      Actually, it's a little bit different, in that both the 32- and 64-bit kernels can run both 32- and 64-bit apps, without performance penalty.

    23. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean compare like a real catalyst for memory usage such as the release of Vista, where every new computer sold suddenly gobbled up 1.5GB of RAM just displaying the desktop.

      Vista never did that. It released the RAM if you needed it - it was part of SuperFetch, which speeds up the system significantly.

    24. Re:Meh by Kjella · · Score: 1

      So, I'm just imagining running a 330 and D510 with a 64-bit operating system?

      No, you didn't read it precisely. I said "an Atom that's not 64 bit capable" not "an Atom since they aren't 64 bit capable". The earliest Atom N2xx series as well as the Z series don't support 64 bit. To be honest, I didn't know they had added support at all though.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    25. Re:Meh by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I recently bought 8GB of RAM for my laptop for $170. If 4GB is a barrier at all, it's because you need the 64 bit version of your OS.

    26. Re:Meh by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 1

      Ok, granted... Oversaw the "an". All new Atoms do seem to be 64-bit capable, though.

    27. Re:Meh by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2

      ...and I'm wrong... The Exxx series seem to be non-64 bit. haven't seen those anywhere yet, but since they have been released in Fall 2010, they qualify as "new".

    28. Re:Meh by jewelises · · Score: 1

      Also note that 32-bit operating systems can still make use of larger system memory sizes.

      I'm doing this right now. It's as easy as apt-get install linux-image-generic-pae.

    29. Re:Meh by j_sp_r · · Score: 1

      CAD & Simulation are two examples I can come up I do a lot.

    30. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure a 32-bit kernel can only see 4GB (on linux it's ~2GB since it shares the address space with the kernel and memory mapped devices take up more of that too). OSX is the only one that does a 32-bit kernel that's 64-bit aware (not sure though how it affects the kernel's RAM utilization). Unless you were referring to PAE which a purely 32-bit Intel extension (not sure if AMD has something similar) that lets the kernel use a 48-bit address space IIRC (user-space is still 32-bit).

    31. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data analysis of all kinds, really. 16GB was a bit constrained for some microarray analysis I did before christmas - and it was singlethreaded as well, so I would have liked to start another six or seven copies.

    32. Re:Meh by petermgreen · · Score: 2

      On 32-bit linux these days each process can have up to 3GB of mappings (with the top 4GB of virtual address space being used for the kernel, there were some patches to allow 4GB for each process but they slowed down context switches and afaict were never widely adopted)

      Physical memory wise 32-bit linux supports PAE and afaict all intel and amd chips that support x64 also support x86 with PAE. Most 32-bit linux distros offer a PAE kernel though not all select it by default (debian calls it linux-image-2.6-686-bigmem ).

      64-bit kernels can also run 32-bit apps and allow them to have a full 4GB of virtual address space.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    33. Re:Meh by petermgreen · · Score: 2

      with the top 4GB of virtual address space
      That should have said the top 1GB of virtual address space.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    34. Re:Meh by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 2

      I don't think ECC is a mandatory part of the DDR4 spec, but the module shown in the picture in TFA is an ECC module.

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    35. Re:Meh by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      the price difference between Win7 32 and 64 bit versions is ~0
      While this is true be aware that MS has artificially limited the home editions to 16GB of memory. If you want more than that you have to buy proffessional or ultimate.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    36. Re:Meh by rednip · · Score: 2

      As I'm hungry, I'd rather have a ham sandwich rather than mass produced 8 and 16 GB modules. -- is that insightful too?

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    37. Re:Meh by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Mass produced desktop markets don't run 3D CAD. High-end workstations and servers hardly count and wouldn't be a major driver of the market.

      Any recent gaming box can run 16G of ram, though admittedly those aren't ECC setups. The high end ain't so high these days.

      What is a consumer driver for large cheap supplies of RAM?

      Games, mostly. That and photoshop. I suspect that it's a wash between the billion odd computers in circulation and the ones in datacenters that drive chip prices these days.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    38. Re:Meh by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Most workstations are still based on the desktop technology. Take a "gamer" mainboard, put in a powerful CPU, the maximum amount of RAM you can get your hands, garnish it with twin GFX cards (or a decent QuadroFX card) and desktop components become a decent graphics workstation.
      Servers are a different story, but if you look at components like Xeons and ECC-capable RAM many components are basically just a more specialised version of what consumers can buy.

      The smaller demand now is mainly a niche which can open the door to more possibilities later on. Like the gaming sector going so over-the-top we ended up with the benefits of CUDA/OpenCL in completely different areas.

    39. Re:Meh by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Better gaming? richer environments? more stuff open? quicker video editing? Processing movie's on the fly, 3d processing?

      But hey, you don't need is, so clearly no one does.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    40. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most desktop versions of the atom support 64-bit instructions, not sure about memory addressing though

    41. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would be nice, but if improved performance is your goal, putting larger capacity DIMMs on a bus with the same speed is not going to help much. What is needed instead is either architectures with faster bus speeds or more channels.

    42. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Better gaming? richer environments? more stuff open? quicker video editing? Processing movie's on the fly, 3d processing?

      But hey, you don't need is, so clearly no one does.

      All you're saying is better better better, but I ask how practically better?

      - The most taxing games on my system take less than 1GB of RAM.
      - Same with environments, we are far more limited by CPU and video processing capabilities
      - How much more stuff? Outlook, 10 instances of word, 5 excel files, an image editor? I do that regularly on 2GB of RAM. Or are you talking multiple instances of insanely complicated apps such as CAD software or commercial are not in the realm of the normal users.
      - Quicker video editing? When the average person starts editing high def content rather than a 30 second phone clip then I would fully agree with you.
      - Processing movies on the fly? In what way? Neither encoding nor decoding even 1080p content is memory intensive.
      - 3D processing, you mean like CAD or animation? Definitely, but again not in the realm of a normal user.

      You seem to completely misunderstand the point. Someone out there definitely needs more RAM. EVERYONE does not. The MASS MARKET does not. Will they one day? Sure, but none of what you said will affect the average user + many geeks at this point in time.

    43. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Gaming is not really all that memory intensive and we are far more limited by processing power and graphic memory. Sure workstations are consumer market but they are still a very small consumer market. Sure a drafting company will be full of workstations, but the word workstation still implies a very special line of work, and not general use for the desktop market.

    44. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think it's probably getting to where this kind of thing will be more common. The average consumer is getting more interested in video editing etc. Also many Windows 7 users have a virtual machine manager installed already to provide XP Mode, so it's not much of a jump to believe they might use a VM appliance... or to think they're already running a VM at least part of the time.

      Bolded the key bit. I was talking the right here and now. There's no doubt that in the future we will be. When people stop editing 30 second clips from their mobiles and start editing 1080p videos from their cameras would be a killer app for more RAM. As for the VM thing, I run a few programs using that mode. It adds a few hundred MB overhead to the system, once, and you can run as many apps inside the mode as you wish without the overhead increasing too much. XP mode is (for a VM anyway) quite light on memory usage.

    45. Re:Meh by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Bolded the key bit. I was talking the right here and now. There's no doubt that in the future we will be.

      you don't get the future of applications you want until people have the RAM to run them. Catch 22.

      XP mode is (for a VM anyway) quite light on memory usage.

      It's just the beginning. And it's not magic. You can gobble up plenty of memory with it. The performance is poor compared to VMware, which doesn't use any more memory.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    46. Re:Meh by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The catch-22 is very right, but look at it in the context of the reply to the OP. He wishes for mass produced 8GB and 16GB sticks. We currently have 4GB sticks costing pennies, and realistically the 6 and 8GB sticks aren't too far off anyway. Your average motherboard has 3 slots so...

      So the mass produced chips can already get you 12GB on your average motherboard. That's not taking into account the fact that 6GB and 8GB sticks are already available for the desktop market.

      So let me ask again why would you need more than 12GB of RAM? Why now? Why in the next 2 years? You said it yourself you're going from 4 to 8GB with your incredible usage. The products are on the market for you right here right now. Other than saving a trivial amount of money (4GB is well in the sub $100), why do you need a 16GB chip?

  11. Re:Roll a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... in 2015 when linux has 0.9% market share as usual.

    Yes but what you don't know is that in 2012 a freak anomaly occurs and every man on Earth becomes spontaneously pregnant. Thus with a booming population of 22 billion people (triplets were very common) a 1% marketshare* equates 220 million people - quite a respectable figure.

    * of total populace since every person now has a computer.

  12. yeah, yeah, thats all fine, but by Blackout+for+Hungary · · Score: 2

    What about latency?

  13. POD explained by overshoot · · Score: 5, Informative
    In a classical open-drain connection, the active device pulls down and the bus termination pulls up. For a pure transmission line, this works just fine -- the current wave from the turn-off of the driver is effectively identical to the current wave from the turn on. In practice, open-drain uses more static current than a push-pull driver against a center termination and since the line isn't a pure transmission line (lumped capacitances, stubs) the rising edge is slower than the falling edge.

    POD addresses this by actively pulling up at the beginning of a rising edge, then releasing the pullup to avoid a bus contention later. This reduces the termination current (at some cost in impedance mismatch, but it's already a sloppy line) and improved switching symmetry.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:POD explained by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read your post first, then looked up to see your username, and laughed. Thanks for the helpful post!

  14. Nope by overshoot · · Score: 3, Informative

    One thing not mentioned in the article or summary is whether or not this technology reduces standby power consumption in DRAM.

    POD by itself doesn't reduce power consumption in standby, since both POD and SSTL turn off the bus drivers then. The older POD technologies from the GDDR families use Thevenin termination, though, so the terminators draw a lot of unnecessary current when they're enabled (as distinct from the result with a dedicated termination supply.)

    If you really want to know how this all works, JEDEC has the DDR4 standard available for free download. Follow the "free standards" link.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  15. Re:Roll a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you play a faggot.

    Blow that pipe some more!

  16. Um, you don't measure power consumption in volts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't measure power consumption in volts, it's in kWh

  17. Re:Um, you don't measure power consumption in volt by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    You measure power consumption in W, and power consumed in kWh, so your pedantic correction is also incorrect. However, assuming the resistance is equal (incorrect, but a good enough approximation), then the more Volts, the more Watts, and the fewer Volts, the fewer Watts. So you don't measure power or power consumption in Volts, but you can compare power consumption in Volts if resistances remain similar. And that's more convenient for this discussion.

  18. Re:Um, you don't measure power consumption in volt by epine · · Score: 1

    So you don't measure power or power consumption in Volts, but you can compare power consumption in Volts if resistances remain similar.

    Cool, there aren't so many of us left who still use ECL. A recent project had a single flip-flop consuming a constant 1/8 watt IIRC. A nice little one bit memory, with jitter so low you can hardly measure it. I'm pretty sure I read a data sheet on a SiGe LVPECL part with cycle to cycle switching jitter specified in femtoseconds. The beauty of constant power draw.

    Aside from that, I'm not sure why we're talking about resistive-load DRAM.