--- Although, I find it hard to fathom that "kind hearted christian folk" could look into the pale blue eyes of a 7 year old girl and tell her she has no soul and that she's a monster. ---
The sad thing is, I could very easily see something like this happening. After all, according to Christian myth, wasn't the surface of the planet at one time purged of almost every living creature save for a boatload? Presumedly, those killed included human children.
Autostart is a Macintosh-ONLY work that propagates by taking advantage of the fact that most Macs are set to automatically execute certain 'flagged' applications on a CD when it is inserted into a drive. Autostart is about the only halfway dangerous virus/worm-like activity the Mac platform has had in about 5 years or so (it was a Big Deal on all of the Mac sites a year or so ago).
Anyhow, since this worm got burnt on the Linux side of things, it is apparently not available on the standard HFS Mac parition - ergo, it cannot run or do any damage. It is dead before it ever had the opportunity to cause damage. This isn't a macro virus, folks, it can't do anything just by being there. It has to execute code like any other self respecting virus.
Now, the fact that they didn't notice it for a while may be cause for concern, but it's not exactly that big of a deal. If you make a Linux distribution, how often do you scan for Windows or Mac virii?
Once again, I fully expect them to ignore the PowerPC hardware which got them where the are. What? No G3 support? How about improvements to Mac-specific drivers? What, none of that?
And to the first person who says that it's Apple holding them up (despite LinuxPPC/Darwin/MkLinux/etc), I have some nice beachfront property in Nevada I'd like to sell you.
>>My wife has gone so far as to threaten to turn me >>in for sharing many of the non-mainstream-media >>views expressed here.
>As for the threats, they're not grounds for >divorce. Beside, I'm happy to call her bluff. If I >am arrested, she has no means of support and no >right to work in the U.S. She makes idle threats >all the time.
No offense or anything, but if you can actually say thing like 'if I am arrested' or contemplate the idea of her doing so for such a silly reason, I don't see grounds for not having an divorce.
Seriously, this sounds like a communications problem to me. Are you in the US? If so, we have this free speech mechanism to protect such things. The right to free speech was developed specifically for unpopular speech. Popular speech with mainstream support doesn't require protection.
If you can't sit down with your wife and share the same kinds of feelings that you are sharing with your fellow Slashdot'ers, there's something seriously wrong in your marriage. Sure, she may not understand as well as we do (ie. she may not have the term 'geek' tatooed on her forhead) but she should still be able to listen and emphasize with you...
It also sounds like her constant 'idle threats' are a way of her controlling you. Is that the position you want to be in - submissive to her demands versus part of an equal relationship?
Yeah, I know I pry sound like a damn psychologist and am probably butting into someone else's business, but then again, I call 'em as I see 'em.
>Anyone have their familiy not get it or actually >turn on you for telling them the truth?
It's kind of funny that you mention this. I personally haven't talked about it with my girlfriend (of 4 years), as I'm not really sure what to tell her.
Like a lot of people, I guess I was kind of living in a shell throughout most of my school career. School was hell, but I eventually got out of it.
When I met my gf, I had finally snapped out of it. No, I didn't take on jock-like characteristics by any means, but I learned to be pretty happy with who I am, to accept who I had become, etc. She never knew the 'old' me, really.
From her perspective, I'm just a guy with geekly leanings. I admit it, we both laugh about it from time to time, it's no big deal. She wasn't the most 'popular' kid in her school, but by no means was she a geek. She was well liked and for the most part made it through with no hatred toward her or those like her. I don't think she would understand that part of things.
Sure, she knows I spend WAY too much time in front of a computer, but at least I get paid for it. She knows I prefer reading to a lot of TV, and science fiction impressed me more than the average romatic comedy Hollywood spews out. Yeah, I even used to play RPGs (gasp!) on occasion. No big deal. She loves me anyhow, which is great - but she doesn't know what it was like way back when, either.
Strangely enough, though, after I left high school everything changed. I had slain the worst demons of bad self image, and that was the end of that. Now I'm a 20 year old part time college student with a '96 Eclipse, a beautiful girlfriend, and a job that I enjoy (please don't consider me a yuppie, as I'm not - honest! *grin*). I see these shmucks on a regular basis and realize that they'll never leave this town. In a way, that is the greatest revenge.
To those of geekly leanings still in school - hang in there. Your time will come. You'll "fill out" as a person, become more attractive (even if just in spirit), and learn to live with yourself and even enjoy being who you are. For the time being, find some people outside of high school who can understand you - they're out there. The denizens of Slashdot have real life counterparts, you know. Ride the rough seas of high school and you will eventually be just fine. Trust me.
Anyhow, I now carry on my quest to show my gf the beauty of the geek world. She's taking May 19th off with me (why, you ask?!?), loves video games (mostly RPGs), and is learning HTML as we speak - without a wizzy-wig editor. Much can be said for a 'late bloomer'.:>
I guess being a geek really is an outward manifestation of the best things humanity can offer. Tolerance. Curiosity. Creativity. Passion. Rest assured, these are not qualities to be ashamed of... Be proud, be safe, and be yourself.
if it makes you feel any better, there have been many deaths attributed to the spread of Christianity. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, The Holocaust, the actions of the KKK, etc. Millions have been killed in the name of Christianity. Does that mean that all Christians are murderers? Certainly not.
>Almost all the victims were white and Christian.
If you haven't heard, the events in question happened in Colorado.
>In fact eye-witness accounts tell us that Klebold >singled out Christians for slaughter.
By what? Christian secret decoder rings? What exactly does a 'Christian' look like? Many hispanics are Catholic, which is a form of Christianity. Many African-Americans are also Christian.
If you're going to post such garbage, at least post your sources. 'Eye witness accounts', indeed.
Note that KKK and Nazi web sites don't really count as being 'eye witness' accounts. Those kinds of sites are normally run by inbred hillbilly types when they're not findling their livestock.
>But racists hate crimes directed against Whites >receive no such sympathy by the media.
It seems to me that this event is getting tons of sympathy, despite any misinformation that is being passed around (ie. that music or clothing had something to do with it). The fact is, nobody is dwelling on the color of these peoples' skin. Some of us don't really give a damn what color their skin was. Why should you?
>So we have in Ohio a Jewish-led massacre of White >Christians.
Where exactly did it go from 'one of the shooters was Jewish' to 'Jewish led'. Let me guess, he was taking orders from Israel, right?
Anyhow, I'm not a Christian (the term 'agnostic' comes close enough, I suppose), but I'll be damned if you are going to associate yourself with an entire group of people whose religion - while I may not agree with the actions of some of its practioners - is fundamentally benign. I've said harsh words to Christians before, but sir, they don't deserve any association with you.
No. 15 people died. These young miscreants killed themselves.
This is more than them just being 'picked on'. This kind of behavior doesn't just pop out of an isolated, happy mind. Something happened to them - something akin to mental torture.
It just so happened that they were weak-willed enough to let it drive them over the edge. There is no good and evil in a universal sense - these people were destructive to others. In that sense, it was probably for the best that they can't do it any more. If only for the same reason that it is good if a rabid dog is put to sleep...
I don't think that Slashdot will change much, but this thread had to be done. I've been out of high school for a few years now (I skipped my last 2 years and went directly to college), but I know what this is about. Although I wasn't really targetted much - I was friends with mostly 'geeks', but had a few unconventional type friends from most of the subcultures.
Still, I saw a lot of it going around. A small school of ~400 people is hell to hide in. I managed to remane pretty anonymous by choice, with my group of good friends. But I'd be lying if I said that high school (and junior high) didn't shape who I am today. It has a profound effect on people - esp. those who didn't like it much. There's often a real reason why.
Anyhow, I want to see more of this from Slashdot... I guess I'm a sucker for introspection.
With people like you around, it's no wonder these kids went nuts. It's hard to be supportive of someone who has problems when you consider 'waaa' a real word.
Ignoring the problem isn't going to make the problem go away. And despite your conviction to the contrary, it IS indeed a problem. People died. A lot of people. Young people. It didn't have to happen, but neither did the abuse. If you feel that these individuals should have just 'gotten over their problem', would you have advocated the same for those who got shot?
"Waa, it's just a damn bullet wound. Get over it."
The worst part is, the school systems are using this event to ostracize 'unconventional' students even FURTHER. That's what started the mess to begin with! What makes you assume that girl had just bought herself a trenchcoat? How do you know she hadn't been wearing it for the last year or two?
You can say whatever you like, but don't be surprised if anyone with the slightest bit of empathy and understanding (for both sides) assumes you are heartless and cruel. I support your right to say what you want, but it's in poor taste to rail against a group of people who are obviously baring some very painful feelings that our subculture obviously needs to deal with.
I think, in a way, this is one of the best threads to come out of Slashdot. I don't know of any dialog on this issue that has this large of a scale or involves so many relevent people. This is a good thing, and we SHOULD explore it.
>Why work on there OS when we have an already >better OS (Linux or a BSD 4.4 light) that has >better licencing anyway?
Both 'better OS' and 'better licensing' are subjective. There are things that, despite the rhetoric, Linux does not do well. There are also those who find the GPL too restrictive.
>This is just the mac users trying to bring there >little platform back
Note the use of 'little platform' as a derogatory statement, aimed at belittling the OS and its users as some sort of inferior and/or unimportant faction. That's a term that a Microsoft exec would use in describing Linux and its users. Oh, how the resemblance sometimes peeks through...
>don't you people know we still can't run linux on >a lot of there hardware?
What are you talking about? Have you looked at the Linux support on Apple's machines? I'm willing to bet that percentage wise, Apple's modern machines have BETTER Linux support than the average knock-off Wintel clone out there. Almost all PowerPC based Macs out there run some form of Linux. The only reason why support doesn't reach down into most of the 68k line is because many of them PREDATE Linux and nobody has cared.
In case you didn't know, Apple writes Linux code and has well before it became the new buzzword.
You are spreading FUD pure and simple. Apple has been comparitively supportive of Linux. Once again, a tactic normally reserved for those in Redmond.
>This ASPL is apples way of getting free >development (Thats exploitation) out of you.
No kidding. Apple isn't denying that either. Surprise! Apple is a company. They try to make money and cut costs. They scratch our back, we scratch theirs. This isn't exactly a socialist country. Considering, I think they're doing fairly well. Instead of Microsoftian 'embrace and destroy' technique, Apple is giving to the community and gaining something in return.
>...and save us a lot of trouble smashing there >shitty MacOS X into the ground with linux >bsd4.4light.
Have you even used MacOS X? Neither have I - it's not even done yet, and won't be for several months. Perhaps the next time you open your mouth, you'll refrain from providing an enclosure large enough for your foot.
>To the Mac users: Run LinuxPPC if you want Open >Source.
I do. It's not terribly hard, either, as it works on most modern Macs.
>Fuck Apple.
My response to this is so obvious, I think I'd better leave it to your imagination.
>So maybe they need to change the way they do >business.
...and go out of business?
I doubt it - Apple has had enough of that already. If Apple doesn't make any cash, their stockholders get pissed. If their stockholders get pissed, the members of Apple's board get nervous. If they get nervous, Jobs (who seems to be doing well right now) gets booted and is replaced by Yet Another Ineffective Apple CEO. That's assuming Apple is even still around by the time that happens.
Considering Apple's recent financial track record, I don't think any of us are in much of a position to tell them how to remain successful. I suggest taking what they are providing and making something with what you've got - it's no good at all if Apple is gone a year later. I for one would rather not be stuck with the substandard standards and cruft of the Wintel world, thank you.
Would you suggest that Apple also take a flamethrower to their cash reserves as well? Remember, they still need to provide something to sell. $39 distro CDs won't sustain a company with an R&D budget like Apple's.
Is it me, or are people being open-minded and giving Apple a chance? This is in sharp contrast to what I've been seeing in these Apple-related articles lately.
I'm sure a whole mob of people (anonymous cowards and non-cowards alike) will descend on this story with all sorts of Apple-hate postings, but it's nice to see that some of the people here are willing to recognize a good thing when they see it.
>One needs to understand the semantics as well as >the syntax of HTML. Tables aren't for layout - >period.
It's easy to be an HTML purist when such statements are true, but I've seen some really well laid out sites that use tables for such a purpose. I'm all for accessability, but what a bland tasteless web we'd have woven if it weren't for some of these enhancements (ie. tables, images).
Face it, the web isn't just for engineers and the odd computer scientist any longer. Strip out all of the advertising, and it's the people's web. How can an artist express him/herself with only a gray background and some ugly browser-defined font?
>When Apple finally decides to release the full >source(encoding and all), then they will have a >warmer reception by the open source community.
Bah. Apple could release their entire product line, contribute half their profits to a slew of Linux and open-source related foundations, provide coders to Mozilla, and publically declare war on Microsoft in the name of open source.
People here would still bitch. "Same old Apple", they'd say. "We don't need their help!".
Slashdot Mirror
Your boss wouldn't have happened to be a Mr. Terrel, would he?
You can get the entire story of the Byte Shop and Jobs' interactions with it in 'Infinite Loop', a book about the history of Apple.
Take a look on Amazon some time for it - it's a good read.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
---
Although, I find it hard to fathom that "kind
hearted christian folk" could look into the pale
blue eyes of a 7 year old girl and tell her she has
no soul and that she's a monster.
---
The sad thing is, I could very easily see something like this happening. After all, according to Christian myth, wasn't the surface of the planet at one time purged of almost every living creature save for a boatload? Presumedly, those killed included human children.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Of course /. isn't into porn. After all, what site recently posted a story from the 'geeks-should-never-be-naked dept.'?
:>
I have news for you, Rob. I'm naked right now.
Okay, maybe not, but... I could have been.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
About right now, Rob should be kicking himself for picking on all the Mac users. :>
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
---
So these auto mechanics somehow figured out something that IBM's 291,000 employees were just overlooking? Not likely.
---
Can we say, 'Apple'?
Sure, Woz wasn't a mechanic, but he did rev things up in a garage in Cupertino.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Um, I think you are showing your ignorance here.
Autostart is a Macintosh-ONLY work that propagates by taking advantage of the fact that most Macs are set to automatically execute certain 'flagged' applications on a CD when it is inserted into a drive. Autostart is about the only halfway dangerous virus/worm-like activity the Mac platform has had in about 5 years or so (it was a Big Deal on all of the Mac sites a year or so ago).
Anyhow, since this worm got burnt on the Linux side of things, it is apparently not available on the standard HFS Mac parition - ergo, it cannot run or do any damage. It is dead before it ever had the opportunity to cause damage. This isn't a macro virus, folks, it can't do anything just by being there. It has to execute code like any other self respecting virus.
Now, the fact that they didn't notice it for a while may be cause for concern, but it's not exactly that big of a deal. If you make a Linux distribution, how often do you scan for Windows or Mac virii?
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Once again, I fully expect them to ignore the PowerPC hardware which got them where the are. What? No G3 support? How about improvements to Mac-specific drivers? What, none of that?
And to the first person who says that it's Apple holding them up (despite LinuxPPC/Darwin/MkLinux/etc), I have some nice beachfront property in Nevada I'd like to sell you.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>>My wife has gone so far as to threaten to turn me
>>in for sharing many of the non-mainstream-media
>>views expressed here.
>As for the threats, they're not grounds for
>divorce. Beside, I'm happy to call her bluff. If I
>am arrested, she has no means of support and no
>right to work in the U.S. She makes idle threats
>all the time.
No offense or anything, but if you can actually say thing like 'if I am arrested' or contemplate the idea of her doing so for such a silly reason, I don't see grounds for not having an divorce.
Seriously, this sounds like a communications problem to me. Are you in the US? If so, we have this free speech mechanism to protect such things. The right to free speech was developed specifically for unpopular speech. Popular speech with mainstream support doesn't require protection.
If you can't sit down with your wife and share the same kinds of feelings that you are sharing with your fellow Slashdot'ers, there's something seriously wrong in your marriage. Sure, she may not understand as well as we do (ie. she may not have the term 'geek' tatooed on her forhead) but she should still be able to listen and emphasize with you...
It also sounds like her constant 'idle threats' are a way of her controlling you. Is that the position you want to be in - submissive to her demands versus part of an equal relationship?
Yeah, I know I pry sound like a damn psychologist and am probably butting into someone else's business, but then again, I call 'em as I see 'em.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>Anyone have their familiy not get it or actually
:>
>turn on you for telling them the truth?
It's kind of funny that you mention this. I personally haven't talked about it with my girlfriend (of 4 years), as I'm not really sure what to tell her.
Like a lot of people, I guess I was kind of living in a shell throughout most of my school career. School was hell, but I eventually got out of it.
When I met my gf, I had finally snapped out of it. No, I didn't take on jock-like characteristics by any means, but I learned to be pretty happy with who I am, to accept who I had become, etc. She never knew the 'old' me, really.
From her perspective, I'm just a guy with geekly leanings. I admit it, we both laugh about it from time to time, it's no big deal. She wasn't the most 'popular' kid in her school, but by no means was she a geek. She was well liked and for the most part made it through with no hatred toward her or those like her. I don't think she would understand that part of things.
Sure, she knows I spend WAY too much time in front of a computer, but at least I get paid for it. She knows I prefer reading to a lot of TV, and science fiction impressed me more than the average romatic comedy Hollywood spews out. Yeah, I even used to play RPGs (gasp!) on occasion. No big deal. She loves me anyhow, which is great - but she doesn't know what it was like way back when, either.
Strangely enough, though, after I left high school everything changed. I had slain the worst demons of bad self image, and that was the end of that. Now I'm a 20 year old part time college student with a '96 Eclipse, a beautiful girlfriend, and a job that I enjoy (please don't consider me a yuppie, as I'm not - honest! *grin*). I see these shmucks on a regular basis and realize that they'll never leave this town. In a way, that is the greatest revenge.
To those of geekly leanings still in school - hang in there. Your time will come. You'll "fill out" as a person, become more attractive (even if just in spirit), and learn to live with yourself and even enjoy being who you are. For the time being, find some people outside of high school who can understand you - they're out there. The denizens of Slashdot have real life counterparts, you know. Ride the rough seas of high school and you will eventually be just fine. Trust me.
Anyhow, I now carry on my quest to show my gf the beauty of the geek world. She's taking May 19th off with me (why, you ask?!?), loves video games (mostly RPGs), and is learning HTML as we speak - without a wizzy-wig editor. Much can be said for a 'late bloomer'.
I guess being a geek really is an outward manifestation of the best things humanity can offer. Tolerance. Curiosity. Creativity. Passion. Rest assured, these are not qualities to be ashamed of... Be proud, be safe, and be yourself.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
So - What's your damn point?
if it makes you feel any better, there have been many deaths attributed to the spread of Christianity. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, The Holocaust, the actions of the KKK, etc. Millions have been killed in the name of Christianity. Does that mean that all Christians are murderers? Certainly not.
>Almost all the victims were white and Christian.
If you haven't heard, the events in question happened in Colorado.
>In fact eye-witness accounts tell us that Klebold
>singled out Christians for slaughter.
By what? Christian secret decoder rings? What exactly does a 'Christian' look like? Many hispanics are Catholic, which is a form of Christianity. Many African-Americans are also Christian.
If you're going to post such garbage, at least post your sources. 'Eye witness accounts', indeed.
Note that KKK and Nazi web sites don't really count as being 'eye witness' accounts. Those kinds of sites are normally run by inbred hillbilly types when they're not findling their livestock.
>But racists hate crimes directed against Whites
>receive no such sympathy by the media.
It seems to me that this event is getting tons of sympathy, despite any misinformation that is being passed around (ie. that music or clothing had something to do with it). The fact is, nobody is dwelling on the color of these peoples' skin. Some of us don't really give a damn what color their skin was. Why should you?
>So we have in Ohio a Jewish-led massacre of White
>Christians.
Where exactly did it go from 'one of the shooters was Jewish' to 'Jewish led'. Let me guess, he was taking orders from Israel, right?
Anyhow, I'm not a Christian (the term 'agnostic' comes close enough, I suppose), but I'll be damned if you are going to associate yourself with an entire group of people whose religion - while I may not agree with the actions of some of its practioners - is fundamentally benign. I've said harsh words to Christians before, but sir, they don't deserve any association with you.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
> These two homos tortured and then killed...
[snip]
>Don't associate these selfish turds with us geeks.
...and don't associate us geeks with someone who uses a term like 'homo' as some sort of slur. Geeks aren't that stupid.
Find your own subculture if you want to bash people for being what they are. Don't count us in on it.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
I don't believe in any gods, and am functioning quite well.
:>
Whatever works for you, I guess...
agnostic geeks unite.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
No. 15 people died. These young miscreants killed themselves.
This is more than them just being 'picked on'. This kind of behavior doesn't just pop out of an isolated, happy mind. Something happened to them - something akin to mental torture.
It just so happened that they were weak-willed enough to let it drive them over the edge. There is no good and evil in a universal sense - these people were destructive to others. In that sense, it was probably for the best that they can't do it any more. If only for the same reason that it is good if a rabid dog is put to sleep...
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
I agree.
I don't think that Slashdot will change much, but this thread had to be done. I've been out of high school for a few years now (I skipped my last 2 years and went directly to college), but I know what this is about. Although I wasn't really targetted much - I was friends with mostly 'geeks', but had a few unconventional type friends from most of the subcultures.
Still, I saw a lot of it going around. A small school of ~400 people is hell to hide in. I managed to remane pretty anonymous by choice, with my group of good friends. But I'd be lying if I said that high school (and junior high) didn't shape who I am today. It has a profound effect on people - esp. those who didn't like it much. There's often a real reason why.
Anyhow, I want to see more of this from Slashdot... I guess I'm a sucker for introspection.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
With people like you around, it's no wonder these kids went nuts. It's hard to be supportive of someone who has problems when you consider 'waaa' a real word.
Ignoring the problem isn't going to make the problem go away. And despite your conviction to the contrary, it IS indeed a problem. People died. A lot of people. Young people. It didn't have to happen, but neither did the abuse. If you feel that these individuals should have just 'gotten over their problem', would you have advocated the same for those who got shot?
"Waa, it's just a damn bullet wound. Get over it."
The worst part is, the school systems are using this event to ostracize 'unconventional' students even FURTHER. That's what started the mess to begin with! What makes you assume that girl had just bought herself a trenchcoat? How do you know she hadn't been wearing it for the last year or two?
You can say whatever you like, but don't be surprised if anyone with the slightest bit of empathy and understanding (for both sides) assumes you are heartless and cruel. I support your right to say what you want, but it's in poor taste to rail against a group of people who are obviously baring some very painful feelings that our subculture obviously needs to deal with.
I think, in a way, this is one of the best threads to come out of Slashdot. I don't know of any dialog on this issue that has this large of a scale or involves so many relevent people. This is a good thing, and we SHOULD explore it.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
On another vein, the Unforgiven by Metallica seems to fit the bill as well.
Ostracism is a feeling well represented in all genres of music, I think...
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Did you pay for your computer?
Home? Food? Entertainment?
If you're going to "fight the system", don't be so choosy.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>This is just the mac users trying to bring there
>little platform back
BTW, Another correction:
Our 'little platform', my friend, IS back.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>Why work on there OS when we have an already
>better OS (Linux or a BSD 4.4 light) that has
>better licencing anyway?
Both 'better OS' and 'better licensing' are subjective. There are things that, despite the rhetoric, Linux does not do well. There are also those who find the GPL too restrictive.
>This is just the mac users trying to bring there
>little platform back
Note the use of 'little platform' as a derogatory statement, aimed at belittling the OS and its users as some sort of inferior and/or unimportant faction. That's a term that a Microsoft exec would use in describing Linux and its users. Oh, how the resemblance sometimes peeks through...
>don't you people know we still can't run linux on
>a lot of there hardware?
What are you talking about? Have you looked at the Linux support on Apple's machines? I'm willing to bet that percentage wise, Apple's modern machines have BETTER Linux support than the average knock-off Wintel clone out there. Almost all PowerPC based Macs out there run some form of Linux. The only reason why support doesn't reach down into most of the 68k line is because many of them PREDATE Linux and nobody has cared.
In case you didn't know, Apple writes Linux code and has well before it became the new buzzword.
You are spreading FUD pure and simple. Apple has been comparitively supportive of Linux. Once again, a tactic normally reserved for those in Redmond.
>This ASPL is apples way of getting free
>development (Thats exploitation) out of you.
No kidding. Apple isn't denying that either. Surprise! Apple is a company. They try to make money and cut costs. They scratch our back, we scratch theirs. This isn't exactly a socialist country. Considering, I think they're doing fairly well. Instead of Microsoftian 'embrace and destroy' technique, Apple is giving to the community and gaining something in return.
>...and save us a lot of trouble smashing there
>shitty MacOS X into the ground with linux
>bsd4.4light.
Have you even used MacOS X? Neither have I - it's not even done yet, and won't be for several months. Perhaps the next time you open your mouth, you'll refrain from providing an enclosure large enough for your foot.
>To the Mac users: Run LinuxPPC if you want Open
>Source.
I do. It's not terribly hard, either, as it works on most modern Macs.
>Fuck Apple.
My response to this is so obvious, I think I'd better leave it to your imagination.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>So maybe they need to change the way they do
>business.
...and go out of business?
I doubt it - Apple has had enough of that already. If Apple doesn't make any cash, their stockholders get pissed. If their stockholders get pissed, the members of Apple's board get nervous. If they get nervous, Jobs (who seems to be doing well right now) gets booted and is replaced by Yet Another Ineffective Apple CEO. That's assuming Apple is even still around by the time that happens.
Considering Apple's recent financial track record, I don't think any of us are in much of a position to tell them how to remain successful. I suggest taking what they are providing and making something with what you've got - it's no good at all if Apple is gone a year later. I for one would rather not be stuck with the substandard standards and cruft of the Wintel world, thank you.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Shadow,
Would you suggest that Apple also take a flamethrower to their cash reserves as well? Remember, they still need to provide something to sell. $39 distro CDs won't sustain a company with an R&D budget like Apple's.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Is it me, or are people being open-minded and giving Apple a chance? This is in sharp contrast to what I've been seeing in these Apple-related articles lately.
I'm sure a whole mob of people (anonymous cowards and non-cowards alike) will descend on this story with all sorts of Apple-hate postings, but it's nice to see that some of the people here are willing to recognize a good thing when they see it.
Good deal!
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>One needs to understand the semantics as well as
>the syntax of HTML. Tables aren't for layout -
>period.
It's easy to be an HTML purist when such statements are true, but I've seen some really well laid out sites that use tables for such a purpose. I'm all for accessability, but what a bland tasteless web we'd have woven if it weren't for some of these enhancements (ie. tables, images).
Face it, the web isn't just for engineers and the odd computer scientist any longer. Strip out all of the advertising, and it's the people's web. How can an artist express him/herself with only a gray background and some ugly browser-defined font?
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
>When Apple finally decides to release the full
>source(encoding and all), then they will have a
>warmer reception by the open source community.
Bah. Apple could release their entire product line, contribute half their profits to a slew of Linux and open-source related foundations, provide coders to Mozilla, and publically declare war on Microsoft in the name of open source.
People here would still bitch. "Same old Apple", they'd say. "We don't need their help!".
Ingrateful, methinks.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
I was close to defending you, but this took away all doubt:
>just how gay the average skript kiddy is..
Only a script-kiddy would use 'gay' as a put-down.
Script kiddy.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net