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BeOS r4.5 released
Eric S. writes "BeOS r4.5 is available at BeDepot.com. I'm not sure if its officially released yet, as there is no information about it on any Be website, but if I can get it it's released. Consequently, none of the updated features are disclosed yet. "
Relax. It is free for those with R4.0 - $25 if you have R3.x. :) It isn't really released yet - when it is released (most likely next monday at PCExpo) an update R4.0->4.5 will be available as a download. The folks at Be, Inc. just finished setting up a new ftp server to handle the load.
The new hardware compatibility list is at:
a dylist_intel.html
http://www-classic.be.com/support/guides/beosre
Ahh the joys of closed source software. One of the many reasons I will never go back.
Oh, I don't know about that. I liked the one about this being the last Beos release. It's likely to ruffle someone's feathers.
Maxon makers of Cinema 4D (professional animation software used by the Likes of fox & disney) is porting their software to BeOS (it runs on mac &win9.*/NT) interestingly they are NOT porting to linux. Ditto for Metacreations (Bryce 4) There are quite a few ports underway of various professional audio processing/mixing software suites (one of BeOS's strongest points is very low software latency for streaming media)
If Be does go under (they are having an almost $US60M ipo this month BTW so it won't too soon) the worst that will happen is that the OS will be bought out and used for web-appliance (think WebPad) type applications, which it is alos well suited for, or better yet it might be released as open source.
The bottom line is that this OS is just too good to go away no matter what happens to Be, Inc.
They've gone over this time and time again. Yes, it may be possible to get it running based on what is known about the G3 motherboards. However, Apple may at some point say "screw you guys" and make some change which does not become public knowledge. I've heard, though I don't know for sure, that the reason that Linux can run on those motherboards is because Apple supplied them with some compiled code to do what they need. Even if that wasn't actually the case, Apple could indeed follow such a path and say that only certain companies/organizations/OSs can use those glue binaries, at which time Be would be screwed.
I received the free upgrade to 4.0 when I purchased 3.0? Just wondering.
1. The $25 upgrade price is only for R3 customers. R4.5 is free for R4 customers. With Linux you never have to pay more than $1.89 for anything, granted, but BeOS looks pretty darn inexpensive compared to what MS charges for vastly inferior products.
2. Be dreaming of having a monopoly??? What is this statement based on?
3. Be forcing upgrade cycle? Not a chance. The change in binary formats was done because the Metrowerks X86 compiler basically sucked compared to EGCS (or the Metrowerks PPC compiler). Also, prior to R4, pretty much only geeks played around with BeOS anyway, and most BeOS apps included source, so most R3 users would be able to re-compile for R4.
Last Post!!! You can all kiss my *ss!!!
Yes, I suppose you are right. But I guess that won't stop people from trying to be last post anyways.
Last Post again!!!
Clever attempt to get Last Post I see. But you couldn't sneak that one by on me!
Last Post!!!
Hey, Troll, why don't you actually try it before getting an opinion? Personaly I used to think closed source stuff was bad until I tried BeOS, now I don't even have linux on my machine.
The previous releases have cost the same (or less) on BeDepot, compared to other places on the net/in RL.
:)
They do it right, so just go ahead and order it from BeDepot.
Actually I don't think SGI should be scared. They are selling machines running NT! They are getting money from their hardware, not just from IRIX. What SGI *should* be doing, is throwing a few engineers Be's way and getting Be running on their low cost graphics machines instead of NT.
Be running on their machines with that wide graphics pipe should be SWEET.
Does anyone know of a project underway to create a "BeOS-like" OS that is free? I really like BeOS and it's strong integration of GUI. I think the lack of a consistent and integrated GUI hurts Linux a lot. If BeOS were free (speech), it would really take off. Anyone know of a project like this?
There wasn't a plan for native Mac apps in be as far as I know. There IS a virtual machine (sort of a VMWare for macs) called Sheep Shaver that does that pretty well, except for a problem with, you guessed it, a few extensions.
;)
VMWare is planning to add BeOS as a client OS, but don't have plans yet for it as a server OS (but I'll keep pestering them on this point
Don't get me wrong, I love Linux and use it almost exclusively, because I don't feel like paying for Be.
...) that have some OS technology that was developed after 1975.
But honestly, I know a fair amount about OS design and can't point out too many reasons why the underlying technology for Linux is better than Be. Linux is open source. I appreciate that.
People shouldn't confuse the two issues. It's easy to rip on Be for being proprietary, but lots So say all you want about Be being proprietary, but stop pretending that it's technologically of people (myself included) are happy that there are systems out there that people can actually use (unlike plan 9 and nemesis and spin and exokernel
So stop saying that BeOS is inferior to Linux. It's not.
I'm not just shooting stuff out of my arse. I am not some 15 year old script kiddie hacking on his mom's presario. I have a degree in CS from a good school and have taken graduate level OS classes.
the scripts thatr drive Slashdot.org is not opensource, but you still use slashdot.org - why?
Couldn't find the source packages. Oh well. I'm not that interested. :)
Intel has finally turned loose the i740's spec. Anyone know if there's XFree work ongoing with it? There are a _lot_ of those cards out there, and the XBF_1740 was sub-optimal, for whatever reasons.
BeOS is not beta!
Why use BeOS? It doesn't appear to do anything better than windows or linux, at least not better enough to warrant paying for it.
What's the big deal? Sure, first posts are pointless, but who do they hurt? Personally, the bandwidth and time it takes _me_ to read two words isn't significant (YMMV). Someone obviously gets a kick out of it, so why not let them have their fun? You're post is just as off-topic as the first, and has inspired a whole thread of off-topic posts (such as this one). Just ignore it and quit whining.
"cannot provide the sub 1 ms latency required for real time audio effects processing."
No, your right. It can only get down to 3 ms. Sheesh. At 3ms you really can't hear the lag. Windblows can only get down to 55ms best.
Can you post some links of major software vendors that have really nice products (like Steinberg's software) for Linux with KURT patches... Or do you expect all the video/audio professionals to go out and patch the Linux kernel... And if this KURT patches are so great why isn't someone creating a distro for A/V pros... You gotta pull your head out of the keyboard and think a bit about marketing and ease of use when you talk A/V. The pros DON'T have the time to f*ck around with Linux, period. Get that in your head. This is what BeOS is doing besides making and OS. They are networking and setting up deals to create and OS that can be used out of the box with lots of great software from "names you can trust".
TOO MUCH COFFEE TODAY. Short fuse for folks who flame inside thier little boxes.
Tank you very much, puters.
Be running on their machines with that wide graphics pipe should be SWEET.
Drool, drool. Hey, the main reason Be runs in Intel based PCs now is cus Intel wants to sell more HW and sent some techies over to help with the port. SGI should do it too.
5 or 8% are you insane? linux is only sold in a few places, i personally don't know anyone thats actually paid for it... i would say a more realistic number of people that download it is 90%
If they had Illustrator, Photoshop and Dreamweaver for Be, I would never use anything else. It already has lots of little useful utilities for design. Mozilla seems to be coming along nicely already so it looks like we'll have another good browser soon.
Jees, what a looser.
In mine experience, about 10 years of software engineering, the most productive environment was/is emacs and gnu tools. Either on unix/linux or win platform.
Good luck, pointy-clicker.
As the other posts have pointed out I never claimed that BeOS is a RTOS.
As an off-topic comment, I used to work with the guys who created KURT. One of the developers of KURT (one of the smartest people I have ever known) now works for Micro$oft! My point? I don't have one, but its kinda ironic.
Im glad to see that KURT is still around and that some people find it useful.
Gassee told us that "perversive multitasking" and "replicator", as well as "superior smp" make Be unique and superior to anything around,
Hurrey!!!
We ALL (except maybe RMS) have other people "do some of our thinking for us". Virtually all Linux users are just as dependent on the few real hackers as BeOS users are dependent on Be.
Who knows what's going to happen? BeOS is a really well-designed, solid OS that's both easy AND exceptionally powerful.
As for "their hey day was two years ago", you've got to be out of your friggin' gourd. The first release with any significant degree of hardware support was R4 in 12/98. They're still in a small niche, but 6/97 sure wasn't any sort of "hey day".
It was John Belushi's character (John Blutarski) rallying the Delta house to attack with the "Deathmobile" after Tom Hulce's character got beat up.
I've seen "Animal House" and embarrassing number of times.
BeOS for me is a dual-boot alongside Debian. If Be fails, all I lose is the potential for future updates on a $69 program. Doesn't sound like a huge risk to me. Hell, if I just blow the $69 on a fancy dinner is that "major trouble"?
This is scary...
You are saying the exact same thing a W-user would
have said three years ago. "What's the point of using alternative OS'es when OS X and X have the attention of the press and gazillions of installations?" Linux fans. Sit down and contemplate your heritage for a moment before you
make these kind of statements...
And I dont even wanna get into the GPL-discussion.
And just for the record. BeOS rocks.
/Jonas
On the Be Depot web site there is a note telling people not to order the 4.5 upgrade CD if they have bought and registered R4. The CD will be sent out to registered users and should be delivered by july 7th.
YOU SUCK. Could you be more ignorant. Oh wait I forgot, you're the guy behind Apple AND Be so you know everything. Lighten up.
-Nathan
Pardon?
You could make the same idiotic argument about Be, that any people who are interested in it are interested because it's the latest "tecnofad" [sic].
What it comes down to is that people like Linux for various reasons.. partially because of "open source" but also because Linux is a damn fine OS.
Oh, latency in xyz audio app is worse? Then use Be for audio, but "MODERN OS DESIGN" isn't much more than some words. All of the explanations I ever hear for how Be is "superior" (an irresistible subject, apparently, for Be fans) involve playing movie files, playing mp3s, er using video editing software, multimedia.. uh, MODERN DESIGN! yeah!
By the argument of "modern OS design" Windows 95 is superior to Linux. The OS design uses more recent concepts. (Especially in the much-touted microkernel vs. monolithic kernel area.)
In the real world does Windows 95 compare? not for performance, and not for stability.
I don't doubt Be is a good piece of software, but real advocacy doesn't involve "Linux sux dood" worded pretentiously..
Note to linux zealots, you keep mentioning these "millions" of new linux users. Well, let me give you a linux timeline for 75% of home computer users trying linux for the first time.
Day 1: Buy red hat at best buy.
Day 2: Install linux
Day 3-4-5: Try to get everything working
Day 6: Play with it a little
Day 7-?: Boot M$ to do real work.
Finally: Remove linux to get the extra drive space since it is sitting there and you are doing nothing with it.
Morale: Installing it once and never using does not constitue a "user"
I just don't believe what i am seeing in this forum.. what's up with slamming on beos? isn't slashdot.org is famous for disscussing on many different topics? I didn't realize many linux users in here are pretty much biased on beos just because it's not open source. I am a big fan of Linux and Beos.. Linux have their strong area and so does beos. 69bux is a little money compaired to linux.. Linux is free and all but without a cable or a adsl modem.. it will take you "forever" to download the damn thing. so i bought it insted (and it took me quite a while to understand the linux enviroment).. I think I am a type of person who wants to get his job done and go home.. life is short.. I like beos alot.. I don't care about 69 bux if it can save me time and get the job done. I believe my time is very valueable. as "einstien said: KISS! (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID)" :)
Nathan, YOU suck. All, I work with our dear Nathan (the Flame Bating poster from above). He can't punctuate his drivel here in the office either. He is also THE guy that introduced all of us here at work to BeOS. He loves BeOS, he sleeps with a BeOS CD under his cheek when things get boring around here. I once caught him in the our data center with the BeOS CD in one hand and the door to a Sun Enterprise 10000 in the other. He was looking for the CD-ROM drive (which is not in the main chasis BTW, it's in the SSP). Our overly enthusiastic Nathan wanted to install BeOS on a 64 CPU Sun. Not that it wouldn't be cool to say we did it, but what would it do ???? Oh yeah, the reason I brought that up... He is totally distraught over the Mac/BeOS issue, and can't understand why BeOS isn't ported to the Sun Ultra yet. - Don't mind me, I am just wasting bandwidth while I wait for my burrito to show up. Beat up on Nathan, he likes it !
I mean C vs C++, BSD vs Linux, KDE vs GNOME, and GPL vs BSD generate huge storms of silly stupid and ill-informed crap why isn't anyone slagging BeOS? You know: it's not really multi-user, not free/open, it doesn't have the latest XYZ and my all time ironic favourite:
;-)
...
"I hate Microsoft and all but this (insert some alternative OS) is crap because it doesn't run Microsoft apps"
Come one everyone! !ink down to the normal level
Yeah, Right!
I've actually given away my stereo, since I've maintaining my MP3 collection on my 10 GB BeOS partition. Doing criteria-based playlists,
thanks to BeOS's lightning-fast attribute/query system.
I've used BeOS almost exclusively, everyday, this last year.
And you can soon forget about the "no programs" issue.
We're 10.000 registered developers now. That's what Apple has, IIRC,
so you should expect BeOS to surpass MacOS in programs availability,
some time in the future. I'm just one developer, but we're "legio".
/Jonas Sundström, maker of missing-link software
www.csd.uu.se/~s96j1su
Oh yeah? And just how good is your stereo at running 10 quicktime movies at once? Or playing mp3 files backwards? WAKE UP!
Apple guy are a bunch of ass wipes for not adopting BeOS instead of the old MaxOS shit. Their computers will scream with BeOS and G3 but as always Apple makes another lame decision. Anyway if you want Dual BeOS machine Intel is the only way to go anyway. No G3 or G4 for that matter can beat out my dual 600 PIII rig. yeah that overclocked PIII 450 but with no voltage change.
hmmm... BeOS *looks* nice. I sure would like to *try* it. Except, the 3.x release wouldn't detect my serial mouse (I tried everything) and now R4 will not detect my IDE CDROM (which the 3.x release detects just fine). Oh well, I'll just have to keep using Linux and apps like CDJ, which show you *can* have cool multimedia apps under Linux. As someone's sig said, "don't take life so seriously, it isn't permanent".
Part of the problem is more and more video cards are relying on DirectX. The video cards themselves are being designed with DirectX in mind. It complicates matters a little as a result...
OS/2 users could have avoided the entire fiasco of IBM's mismanagement of the systems had they had access to source.
Glad you used 'could have' instead of 'would have' as that would have shown even more arrogance on your part. It continually amazes me how OSS users seem to think that practice is bulletproof.
Here's a good measure of how easier it is to program under Beos. Just check out the progress of Project Magic on the Opera web browser web site (www.operasoftware.com). The Beos version is way ahead of just about every other platform.
id software has made sure that all major graphics accelerators being developed have the ability to handle all opengl 1.1 calls. So Be should be able to develop 3d drivers for all modern chips as long as they have a reliable opengl implementation in their OS software.
BeOS *DOES* run on non-Apple G3 upgrade cards!
To get it to run on Apple G3s, all Be wants is what they used to have--a cooperative Apple, not one that sees Be as a threat. If Apple gave them the kind of technical info they used to, along with the assurance that they welcome BeOS on their machines, Be would quickly support Apple's G3 hardware. Under Jobs, this won't happen. I'd bet Be already has the BeOS running on Apple G3s in their private labs.
--Eric Iverson
They will be mailing free upgrade cd's to your registered address. Make sure it's correct or register if you haven't already. Kick Ass.
1. Attempt to install Linux.
2. Inadvertantly wipe out all your other partitions, losing all your data.
3. Wish you could uninstall Linux.
True Be Experience:
1. Install BeOS in 15 minutes.
2. Everything works perfectly first time.
3. There's no step 3.
How many more times?
It simply does not make ANY financial sense at all
to try to establish an OS on a hardware vendors product *IF, AND AS APPLE HAS STATED* they dont want you there in the first place. Trying to force BeOs onto G3/4 machines is absolute suicide for a small company like Be!!!
Now the reason Apple doesn't want BeOs running on their machines seems much more obvious to me.
MacOS *sucks big time* and giving users a kick-ass alternative (BeOs) is simply a dumb thing to do.
Al Elias.
I thought we were dealing with intelligent people here. Pointy-clicker? Come on! Apparently you do not have a relevant argument so you must try and ridicule. The Linux community is already beginning to lose respect due to comments like the above. Both Linux and BeOS are exceptional operating systems, but the BeOS is the best choice for beginners and advanced users alike.
If latency is such an issue with you, why not just use hardware? :)
And how close do you sit to your speakers? You know if you are 3 feet away from your speakers, it takes 3 milliseconds longer for sound to reach your ears.
The BeOS has a nice API for connecting and mixing various digital media streams. Lots of audio developers like what they see with BeOS, so maybe you should take a good look at it too.
--Eric Iverson
Antiword port for BeOS converts Microsoft Word documents to text.
License: Freeware
Cost: 0
Source Available?: Yes
There are also more sophisticated commercial options on BeOS.
Satisfied?
Here Be answers the question about multiusers...basically, "Yes" and "No". Granted, this is pretty old too.
even better vi. Yes I'm serious :-) I use vi for all of my programming courses (computer engineering student).
Spyky, to lazy to login
I mean, really, what's the point of a post like that? Are you any different from those who respond to Linux kernel releases with statements like "When are the Linux fanatics going to realize that everyone's ALWAYS going to use Windows?"
Be isn't your enemy. If Be is successful, Linux will benefit, because Microsoft's stranglehold will be weakened, and computer users may become a little more educated (BeOS includes a bash shell and a complete GNU toolkit). Conversely, Linux's success has already helped Be.
BeOS will either be a huge success or be remembered as an OS that was way ahead of its time
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
From: custservice@bedepot.com
To: douglas@min.net
Subject: BeDepot Order
***** BeDepot.com *****
* Order Confirmation **
Thank you for your recent order from BeDepot.com.
This is a confirmation of your order for your records.
I've always wanted to take BeOS for a spin.. Looks like I finally will get a chance. (:
AFAIK- the only 3D support in 4.5 will be 3dfx..
:^)
Definitely Banshee and V3, and maybe older Voodoo based boards as well...
My CD should be in the mail tomorrow
Posted by d106ene5:
Whatever. Unless you haven't figured it out by now, everyone in here has a degree or doesn't need one. You're not impressing anyone.
Posted by d106ene5:
A server has to be multiuser. Sorry folks, thats the price of admission. Any real server is going to be on a rack in a colocation. You have to be able to get multiple users on there to debug it remotely.
Posted by d106ene5:
1. Install Be.
2. Realize your stereo is an even better device for playing audio.
3. Uninstall Be.
Well thank goodness they got around to supporting my graphics chip, the i740. So it's proprietary, blah blah blah, but it's what I have.
So is there any place to get this software that isn't at retail price? Not warez, but discounted. Buying directly from the manufacturer tends to be the worst deal around, especially on the Internet, where people will sell at cost just so they can justify their existence.
bou fsck TIME :P this will rok :)
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
bedepot.com says its a 25.00 upgrade to 4.5! is that for $3.1 ppl or R4 ppl too??? Be Inc said all minor-version upgrades are FREE, and only MAJOR version ones cost 25 bux...did i miss sumthin?
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
hey you stole my SIG :P how flattering hehe
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
yeah i had that same prob...the trick is to slow your BIOS' keyboard sample rate thingy down to about 6 chars / sec rather than the nice fast 30/sec...just kinda weird like that :P
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
I say good riddance to Apple hardware!
Look at Amiga.. I don't recall seeing any of the M$ 'killer apps' ported over to Amiga. You say Amiga, I think Toaster.
If Adobe and Macromedia were to port their graphics apps to Be, then Be would likely have a long and successful life.
he was quoting from "animal house"
he knows the japanese bombed pearl harbor...
-garrett
Not true. For updated compatibility, examine :a dylist_intel.html
http://www-classic.be.com/support/guides/beosre
The actual features (Apart from the extra harware compat) while not actually stated explicitly, have been mentioned at various stages in Be newsletters etc.
Having been using the release for some months now I can heartily reccommend it. If I can only get emacs-20 ported ok I'll be a very happy chappy.
~Pev
Considering the high performance of BeOS, it would be great if we could run Linux as a guest and BeOS as the server. :)
--
Jake
The Intel comptaibility list has also been updated : http://www-classi c.be.com/support/guides/beosreadylist_intel.html :-(
Will allow many more users to use it. Bad thing is nothing new on the PowerPC pages
Btw The announce on Bedepot is preorder. The OS isn't ready Yet . The developers haven't been warned of anything Yet (maybe on the Beta list on which I ain't). So to say it is not released ! Ludo
none Yet.
Yes, I'm sure their recently-announced IPO, their premiere at PC Expo and the two-dozen-odd professional audio companies writing software or drivers are all part of a conspiracy to dupe users from noticing nobody likes the platform. e-Picture is a clever illusion, Adamation's Personal Studio is really just a PowerPoint presentation in disguise, and who would want to buy LCS's BeOS-based theatre control system, anyway? (Disney, Cirque de Soleil, and Broadway production companies are all part of the conspiracy.)
I suppose I can't blame some Macintosh and Linux users for wanting to take the opportunity to spread a little FUD of their own given the tremendous FUD-spreading both those platforms have taken over the years. But FUD is FUD. The "BeOS has no applications" schtick is getting pretty old at this point to those of us who've been using applications on it on a daily basis. Yes, Linux has more applications for it. So? Windows has more applications than Linux, and I'm not using it, either. No, I don't have the freedom to hack the kernel source. So? I won't have that with MacOS X, either, and while I like free software (in both the speech and beer sense), hacking isn't my primary use for computers, and I part company with Mr. Stallman when he maintains I am enslaving myself to a manufacturer anytime I purchase something with no user servicable parts inside. If these are "make or break" deals for you--you absolutely won't use a non-open OS, or no other graphics program but Photoshop will do--you'll choose appropriately.
While the "GeekGadgets" version is older than this, I think, version 20 has been ported. Go to http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xv9k -oki/en/Emacs.html.
Exactly. With the caveat that I haven't
actually looked at the relevant source,
I'd have to imagine that the Darwin source
provides them with all the G3-specific
info they'd need to add support for current
Apple hardware. They appear simply
not to be interested (beyond lip-service)
to processor agnosticism.
you can order the CD "new" for 69$ or 25$, but if you already have R4, the upgrade is free and you'll be able to download it from BeDepot as well, like R3.1 and R3.2 were available when i had R3. :), i really like this OS, simple, no hundreds of directories and links (it changes me from SCO at works!)
Anyway Be Inc. promise Genki in June, it's coming!!! TNT2, SBLive, media player, pretty cool
Now wait for CivCTP, Simcity3000, Q2, and Q3A!!!!!
--
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
... from Stripes. Bill Murries character goes off on some rant to inspire the troups.
The quote actually included someone else trying to correct Bill's character and being suppressed by a third person.
If you haven't seen Stripes, go watch it now. It was actually on network TV recently.
If you don't have a sense of humor, you can get the new MSHumor, 2.3! This latest upgrade is compatible with all MSComedians, and has even managed to fix that annoying "knock-knock" bug! Order yours today.
--Mark
It's bad enough when some AC does this... "real people" should have their registrations yanked...
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
Once again, I fully expect them to ignore the PowerPC hardware which got them where the are. What? No G3 support? How about improvements to Mac-specific drivers? What, none of that?
And to the first person who says that it's Apple holding them up (despite LinuxPPC/Darwin/MkLinux/etc), I have some nice beachfront property in Nevada I'd like to sell you.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
Sorry, I was bored and happened to notice tghat not postings had been made. It's not like that there is anything meaningful in any of the comments posted here.
It is not a troll! It's not like I got up here and said "Linus blows goats." I mean he may, I don't know. I really don't care.
Not likely. I would imagine you would get a mess of people attempting to be "last post" and since once one person does it, they will keep trying until the item is frozen. With first post, once it's done, it's done.
Linux users aren't bright enough to get high ratings.
That's got to be flamebait.
Anyway, lastpost!
For talking sense! Geez, I am wondering when Be will just fold. This OS really isn't going to go anywhere. Why? Look at the attention Linux is getting. Look at the astronomical numbers of new installations. Be's hype machine is GONE. Buh bye! What's the reason to install it? It still serves no new purposes. You have Linux. You have Mac. You have NT. Where does Be fit in? Their hey day was two years ago. "It's over, Johnny!"
Congrats to /. for posting more unsubstantiated rumors.
Various game retailers are taking pre-orders for Quake III and C&C Tiberium Sun... are they out too?
I know at one point there was a plan for the mac rev of BeOS to be able to run native MacOS apps. Is there a plan currently in the Be roadmap to add something similar for dos apps, well specifically games?
F /...
My current OS needs are actually pretty tame. SSH, SSL Web Browser, telnet, other net tools, vi, mp3 player/ripper, tv recorder and the ability to play Team Fortress Classic. Except for that last one it looks like I could use BeOS to replace the one 95 box in my house.
---
Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OS
--- I do not moderate.
>I mean that was Steve's second child.
:) (I'm should state that I'm a zealotry BeOS user, btw, it's my only OS as of last week :) ) I read somewhere that Gasse and Jobs had some big fallouts about the time that Jobs left Apple the first time...
hehe yup. And by that line, Be was born of the wicked stepfather
Apple are just like Gravis were with sound cards. They develop incredible products, based on an innate understanding of their consumers... except they completely screw up the software side of things and as a result suck (I used to be a zealotry Gravis owner and was digusted by the way they pissed their talent up against the wall while proudly crowing "If you look carefully you can see I've written my name").
I wish that every time Be got brought up on slashdot some dickhead wouldn't rave on about the fact they don't run on Apple (and that realistically they can't) - if it did I would have bought an G3 when I last upgraded, but I am now more than happy with my dual p2 x86 box and Be. If you've got a problem, then flame Jobs about it and if you're lucky you'll get an arrogent reply.
Believe with me, my saplings.
Why should Be reverse engineer the platform. Compare intel to Apple. One has been very encouraging and moving away from MS (intel) the other has been anal and making deals with MS (Apple). As far as I'm concerned that's about as close as you can get to an accurate scale of karma, and it would seem to indicates that Apple will burn in the pyres of hell. (IMHO)
Why should Be help out Apples sales? If they develop the greatest operating system yet devised for Apple's platform, then they are helping out Apple. Much better to make the move to the Digital Alpha platform the next priority, rather than piss-fart around trying to be partners with a company that's being recalcitrant.
How can people support Apple and Linux at the same time, anyway? Apple are into closed systems and proprietary habits.
Let me restate my case: Apple are bastards. Bastards. They suck. They have cool hardware, and closed minds, are friends with Microsoft, and they suck.
I'm a consumer who was quite happy to choose intel to keep using Be, and I am not alone.
Believe with me, my saplings.
I paid for Linux 3 years ago. I did not reinstall since that time. All the components of my system are still latest and greatest of my choice. Guess how did I manage to do it? There are two kinds of computer users, some just uses what is available (like you), others have the choice (like us). You better do not think. Just use it. Guys at Be are thinking for you.
"What... Over...Nothing is over until we decide it is....Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Habor?....Germans? Forget it he's rolling...and it ain't over now!...'Cause when the going gets tough.(long pause with military music playing in the background).The tough get going. Who's with let's get them!Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"
Don't count Be out yet. It is a wonderful desktop OS. Have you tried 4.x? The "media os" thing was timely and things have changed.
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
At least one person got the right source. Next time I wont be so obscure.
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
Right, except that everyone does not type 50+ page technical documents. Most people in the world aren't that great at computers and simply want to write small documents. Which is why we have Office, StarOffice, WordPerfect, etc. Get off it, you are not the only person in the world. The fact that the BeOS is not open-source has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether LaTeX exists for it, or whether word processors exist for the OS.
Corporate image? Here's a clue for ya JLG:
YOUR PRODUCT DOES NOT WORK ON G3 HARDWARE
And just to drive the point home:
LINUXPPC DOES
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If open source provides better software, where is the free photoshop? How about Lightwave? Where is 3d Studio MAX?
Oh yeah, gimp, blender, and povray. *snort* Meanwhile, professionals use what gives them power, not what makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside for using.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
You know, I think BeOS actually has more interesting applications than Linux. How about GoBe Productive, an office suite that doesn't slavishly imitate Microsoft? I was pretty impressed at how fast and smooth it was. And there's always NetPositive, a browser that may not have all the features we love, but is amazingly fast and smooth. (Guess I see a pattern here).
Now, it's true that there are definitely fewer free applications, but we're talking about tiny companies trying to make a buck or two. GoBe Productive is under $ 100 and has a very nice word processor and spreadsheet (I haven't tried the other modules).
Everything I've tried on BeOS includes an effort to be creative and original, and I love that in a company. Due to hardware compatibility problems, I'm not using the BeOS right now, but I have fond memories of it and don't regret the money I spent to support software companies that dare to Be (ahem) original.
Also, Jean-Louise Gasse answers your email in his charming French way. Gotta love it.
When BeOS gets FireWire support and video editing software, I'm definitely going to give it a try. I'll be frankly relieved if I can give PC users a better video editing solution than "Get a Mac".
The only serious weakness of BeOS is hardware compatibility problems. Hopefully R4.5 will help.
D
----
Must be nice living in your own little world, eh? Seriously, it's great that Linux is getting a ton of press and all, but a lot of it is just the latest "tecnofad." And if you look at the situation carefully you'll see that the driving force behind all the Linux coverage is actually the trouble with Microsoft. Microsoft is closed and monopolistic, Linux is open and a worthy contender, so let the battle begin, and bring on the cameras! You can bet that in another year or so all the hype will start to fade... because it's was never the Linux people generating it in the first place. Be doesn't get quite as much press, because the proprietary model behind it is old hat and not quite as newsworthy as the OSS bit.
But don't mistake the lack of press as a sign that Be is ready to call it quits! They have been making some serious progress on the BeOS lately, and there are a bunch of the "media authoring" apps just around the corner. Be may not be able to ride the press wave like Linux can, and they don't have the pre-committed developer support that Apple has for OS X. But they're not down and out - not by a long shot. You'd do better to step out and take a look at the actual situation before you make your doomsday judgements, instead of getting all your news and opinions from Slashdot.
- Slarty
Hi... I'm Larry... the shivering chipmunk... brrrrr!... I'm cold... I need a sweater...
How about because BeOS can address audio hardware *eight* times more efficiently than Windows on the same machine. How about because many of the BeOS media apps are capable of things that are simply impossible on other platforms? How about because you haven't seen all the media apps being released in the next three months?
Take a look at the freshly updated Hardware Compatibility List:
http://www-classi c.be.com/support/guides/beosreadylist_intel.html. There's *tons* of new supported hardware on it.
BeOS has been out of beta for more than a year now.
How could they do this without using reverse-engineered specs? They need specs from _Apple_ to guarantee compatibility, and as other posters have pointed out, they aren't getting them.
It's not different than being on Intel in that respect, in fact you are guaranteed that if you want to support newer Intel chips you will probably end up writing some code.
Um, no. Or at least, you don't have to. You could dig out an old copy of Windows 3.1 and it would run on your brand new Pentium III, because the architecture is completely backwards-compatible (which is both a blessing and a curse, but that's another story). Now, any _application_ that, say, used SSE would be in trouble (because of data lost during context switches), and you could certainly increase efficiency by modifying code for the new processor, but the OS wouldn't _break_. Such is not the case, I am told, with G3-based systems.
I have to agree with you on that, since the release of that one program ("Insert Turntable Mixing Program Name Here") I saw BeOS mentioned in several places that had nothing to do with computers.. Actual newspapers... It was amazing, albeit tiny article about the program, they misspelt BeOS though, those morons....
--
Insert Witty Sig Here
I read on the Xfree86 site that 3.4 will include 1740 support.
I have one, and I use the XBF_i740 with no problems ('course I don't play quake on it or anything) What did you mean by sub_optimal? Because it isn't free (speech) ?
What I would like to see is OpenGL drivers for the i740 for Linux. The OpenGL drivers for my card in Windows RULE, considering it's a $50 card.
I don't know jack about OpenGL or driver programming, or I might give it a shot. I just write CGI in Perl all day. I think my longest script is 100 lines...
:)
Make me -1 coz you don't agree with that i'm saying, how lame.
Mabye i'm wrong, that would be good if i'm wrong, really. Competition is good.
But mabye i'm right? What your saying is coz you don't agree with me you don't want people to even read my post.
And didnt just put "BEOS SUX" i gave some reasons.
Flamebait, mabye, but -1?
"Computers will never truly be free until the last windows user is strangled with the entrails of the last mac user."
Yeah thats true enough, I suppose 25 bux isnt piracy yet, i wasnt aware you could download the upgrade.
I'll give it that its free for download right now, but the major revisions arnt. I'm not specifically pointing out Be Inc right now, but I think that all of these companies eventually succum to greed. Right now, only major revisions. But i'll bet they'll start releasing MS-Style major version upgrades, price tag included.
My whole point is that even the possibility of these kind of problems don't exist with a truly free OS, like Linux, Free/Open/NetBSD, HURD or whatever.
For the record to, I bought a copy of BeOS to take a look at it (i like playing with OS's), and sure enough, its a nice OS. I bought good hardware so everything worked out of the box. I would love BeOS a hell of a lot if it was OpenSource =(
But its not and I think people should make a note of that, in the future Be Inc will probably get corrupted.
"Computers will never truly be free until the last windows user is strangled with the entrails of the last mac user."
Touchy.
I'll give you these facts, yeah.
About R3 and R4, its a beta so i'll admit that is probably nothing. Probably.
And no, Binary Compatibility is not broken every few kernel releases. Its not. Its just plain not. I can run apps from 2.0.36/7 with 2.2.10 fine. It might be broken between 1's and 2's, but not between 2.0 and 2.2.
"Computers will never truly be free until the last windows user is strangled with the entrails of the last mac user."
There are still alot of people patiently waiting for BeOS to get some good application software. And I dont mean Office 2000 and Netscape. We could care less about those.
,either forward or reverse. How about several video clips at the same time, full bandwidth, no skipping? Unlike the Mac and Windows Be has real multitasking, real protected memory and a modern OS design. Unlike Linux and NT it is streamlined from the ground up for multimedia content. It is NOT a swiss-army knife like NT or Linux. It does a few thiungs extremely well.
Have you ever run Be? It's really nice. I've not
seen Linux or Windows software that can play 6 or more (I only tried 6) MP3's at once, and mix them together, variable speed
BeOS will gain popularity amoung musicians and artists once the software is there. They'll probably use it exclusively. SGI should be afraid, very afraid. Be will soon be able to take advantage of the increasingly large number of pro-grade audio and video components for the PC and when it does it will embarass everything else when it comes to media production. Emagic, Steinberg, Event Electronics, and many others have commited to BeOS ports of their audio products, most of which are expected later this year.
So in short, if you want to run an Office, go with Linux or Winblows. If you want to run a studio, throw out your macs and commit to Be. It will be well worth it when the software arrives.
-Rich
Jean Louis Gassee said in an interview that for Be to make BeOS run on the G3's, he needed all the tech data from Apple. He also says that it would not be too difficult to reverse-engineer everything they way the LinuxPPC people did, but that it's not good for a company to do "hacker-ish" stuff when they're trying to maintain a professional corporate image.
I have to take offense with this comment. "one of BeOS's strongest points is very low software latency for streaming media." BeOS is NOT a real-time OS, and as such, cannot provide the sub 1 ms latency required for real time audio effects processing. Linux with the KURT patches is quite good at this task. I won't argue with BeOS's great architecture for offline video and audio editing and effects, and I think it could quite possibly be the next toaster, but marketing BeOS as real-time is irresponsible.
They are one and the same, at least with audio. To do very low latency audio, you have to have a very small output buffer. To do this, you need to schedule events with very short intervals, for example, an event every 1 millisecond. You also need that event to go off as close to possible to the scheduled time. To pull this off you need an operating system with at least basic real-time capabilities. Of course, no mainstream OS supports this, which disappoints me. Firm real time support in BeOS would make it much much more useful for my realtime audio effects. For now I stick with linux with KURT.
People are entranced by beauty and slick design... and they always will be.
I've been running be since R3.1 and I admit that it serves no purpose, but it looks damn nice.
Of course, I could customize a window manager and blah blah blah, but I'd rather have it done for me.
Once you run 3dmov with Frustration playing on the ripple you understand.
It's not really "officially" released. Most in the BeOS community consider a "point" upgrade released when it is both orderable through BeDepot as well as downloadable free of charge from Be's web site. So far, the latter is not yet available.
Most speculation tends to think that Be will make the official release announcement next week at PC Expo.
While I would dearly love for this to be moderated down as a "Troll," I have this sinking feeling it's going to be moderated up with "Informative" or "Interesting".
The reason why BeOS is appealing is because it's different. It's different than Linux, and it's different from Windows. It uses different ideas, different philosophies, different technology. It has things that Linux doesn't, that Linux won't (simply because some of what BeOS has goes against the grain of certain UNIX philosophies). Does that mean BeOS is superior? Hell no - Linux will always kick BeOS's ass in certain areas. Does that mean Linux is superior? No.
>just with some more spit and polish
Couldn't I just as easily dismiss Linux as 'just another UNIX' workalike, albeit it with a bit more "spit and polish," as you so elegantly put it?
>Closed, binary-only, proprietary.
Yeah, you're right. Unfortunately, your philosophical extremisim results in a closed mind. Apparently for you, nothing good will ever come from closed source. You refuse to look past the licensing to the actual technology implemented (and as a side note, the fact that you CAN dismiss it as simply a licensing issue and not provide examples of how Linux's technology is better or comparable to BeOS would indicate that you are unfamiliar with BeOS at best), and therefore there is no argument in the world to dissuade you.
Just be careful of that soapbox you stand on to preach to the masses - it's an awfully long fall.
It stems from when Apple was shopping around for thier next-generation operating system. It came down to BeOS and NeXT. Jobs decided to choose NeXT (for whatever reason).
After that, I think Apple has felt threatened by BeOS as a competitor to their operating system, and doesn't really want to encourage it on their hardware. It's only due to Be's peculiar sixth sense that they managed to do a successful transition to the IBM-compatible market.
Open-source protects me from closed-minded individuals such as yourself, who look at the world in total black-and-white, with no regard or place for another person's opinions?
Wow - here I thought it was a philosophy of writing code, not a solution for intolerance and discrimination.
With respect to Be going under, OS/2 was orphaned by IBM a long time ago and that community is still going strong. Given the support of the Be community, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar following emerged. Further, given the hype around open source, if Be DID collapse there's the possibility that they would release what source code that they could rather than let it die off completely (granted, there's probably an amount of code under NDA or some such).
Barring those two solutions, I will happily transition to Linux. I've installed it and used it. For me, BeOS - regardless of licensing issues - is a better solution for me than Linux. It provides for more of my needs than Linux does currently. Simply because BeOS has the _potential_ to fail doesn't mean that it will, and it doesn't mean that I should just abandon it because some Linux blowhard feels his way is The One True Enlightened Path To Wisdom (tm).
It works for me, and it works better than Linux. If there ever comes a point where Linux works for me better than BeOS, I will go to Linux. But you aren't going to get me to jump ship based on some vague prophecy of impending doom.
It's not sour grapes on Be's part anymore than they really wished they could've continued on the PowerPC/G3 side. Given Apple's reluctance to help them out, they can't count on having Apple be a truly long-term stable platform to continue to maintain a port on.
:(
Be continues, periodically, to request the specs but Apple keeps turning them down.
As I said, the situation sucks but it's perfectly understandable. I think both Apple and Be suffer from the deal. Be could've probably sold Apple quite a bit of hardware, and Be would've maintained a healthy set of sales on the Apple side of the computer world. Given the comparative sizes of the companies involved, however, Be is going to take it as a much greater hit.
There's nothing more important than freedom. On the other hand, freedom should allow me - if I so choose - to give up some of my freedom if I wish. That's simply a part of being free.
That's what you do in American society as part of the social contract. You give up total freedom for certain perceived benefits. A police force is a good example; society has given up a bit of its freedom in order to become a bit more secure. You can't go murdering freely and you aren't supposed to speed on highways, which impinges on your liberties; on the other hand, the police force also works diligently to track down and prevent murderers, as well as attempting to keep speeders to a minimum.
The benefits I reap of using BeOS outweigh the freedom of being able to look at the source. I'm not saying open source is a "bad" way of doing things - I happen to support whole-heartedly the "free speech" aspect of open source. I also happen to STRONGLY enjoy the fact that should something bad ever happen to Be/BeOS, Linux will always be there as a fallback. I'm not even shitting (pardon my illustrious pseudo-French) on those who happen to use Linux. But Linux doesn't fit my needs as well as BeOS.
I respect your choice of using Linux, and I respect your beliefs, even if I happen to disagree (which I don't). But the instant you fail to respect *my* beliefs and *my* choices, I will defend them.
The reason why somebody has to be wrong and somebody has to be right is because we're all insecure in our decisions, and we want to be affirmed that we did the "correct" thing. Barring that, we want to make absolutely sure that we did the "correct" thing by making everything else the wrong option.
(My two cents' worth of pop psychology.)
Though not on this particular story, I actually was inspired to give Linux another shot based on a lot of Slashdot comments. I recently grabbed a Linux Central CD of Slackware 3.6 and gave it a spin. I spent a few days playing with it, and then zapped it. I liked Slack - I ordered the Slack 4.0 Linux Central CD in case I felt adventurous in the future - but BeOS really did more for me with less hand-holding. (Even given that Slack is the most manual and hands-on of the distributions.)
It's a cross between Apple's reluctance to give them official specifications and Be's reluctance to reverse-engineer or otherwise become dependent on unofficial specifications.
It's a case of limited resources (and I can hardly wait for all of the ultra-religious OSS fanatics to come crawling out of the woodwork for this thread). In order to support the G3 processor, Be would have to reverse-engineer the various motherboard chipsets (it's not actually the processor itself that's the problem). However, that would leave them not only at the whim of different revisions of the motherboard (altered chipsets that would break Be's unofficial specs), but also leave them guessing as to future developments. When Apple introduces the G4, Be would find themselves right back where they started.
(In case anybody needs it, the starting point for the OSS argument is: "If BeOS were open-source, then they wouldn't have to worry about being squashed - they could let somebody else out there in the Big Coder World (tm) figure out the differences in architecture!")
In other words, Apple's relucantance to give Be official specs means that Be is at the mercy of Apple. Be would rather not remain dependent on Apple, given Apple's rather surly attitude towards them. It might suck royally - I'd probably have considered buying a G3 instead of piecing together an IBM-compatible, had BeOS been able to run on it - but it's completely understandable.
As seen on bedepot:
If you currently own Release 4, please don't
order the $25 upgrade. We will send you a
complimentary update automatically, provided
that you have registered. You should receive
your update by July 7th. Please do not contact
customer service regarding your update before
this date. Thank you, and we hope you enjoy
your new BeOS CD!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
As seen on bedepot:
If you currently own Release 4, please don't
order the $25 upgrade. We will send you a
complimentary update automatically, provided
that you have registered. You should receive
your update by July 7th. Please do not contact
customer service regarding your update before
this date. Thank you, and we hope you enjoy
your new BeOS CD!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
BeOS has not been considered beta for quite some time now.. hence the names R3, R4, R4.5, etc. Those are VERSION numbers. Like Photoshop 3, Photoshop 4, Photoshop 5...
.x releases, and only on the Intel platform. There was a perfectly good reason for this too. ELF is better than PE or whatever they were using before.
Binary compatibility wasn't broken between any point releases in BeOS, it was broken between two FULL VERSION releases (R3 to R4), not
Why was binary compatibility broken between versions of Linux again?
Just because there is a bit of hardware limitation doesn't mean that BeOS is a beta product. It just means it's only in it's 2nd release on the Intel Platform. Hell, they're doing better than Linux in it's first 2 years...
The fact is, you know NOTHING about what you are so vocal about.. Why don't you just crawl back into your opensource hole and shut your eyes and cover your ears and hope that somebody can make Linux user friendly, faster, prettier, and cleaner than BeOS. Yeah, right.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
I'm not trying to be a troll here. Are there any visual environments for Linux that compare to Microsoft's Visual Studio? gcc might be a fine compiler, but I cannot survive without my visual debugger to step through my C++ code.
cpeterso
Just in case someone from Apple is reading... I just built 3 BeOS machines. I would have preferred to just pick up some nice G3 machines... but I had no choice. There goes $7500+ in sales lost for Apple.
Not that that's such a huge figure, but if you add up all the people here that have said they built on Intel for a BeOS box, you begin to see something a bit more significant.
Just a thought...
--SONET
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
I don't question that there is bad blood, but how does Apple have a surly attitude towards Be? I've been under the impression that it was the other way around. After all, Be is made up of a bunch of disgruntled ex-Apple employees. Has Apple done anything to hurt Be or been outspoken against them?
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
I think it is deplorable that Be doesn't support their PowerPC based customers. They've marketed the OS as platform independant but it's not and if you want support it sounds like you're stuck with a pentium, that's not so bad but they should stop claiming it's cross platform.
The fact is that if they wanted to, they could support G3 macs, there is no question about that. The fact is also that once they support the current generation of g3s they will always support the current generation of g3s, they may not support G4s or future G3s but they will support current G3s. It's not different than being on Intel in that respect, in fact you are guaranteed that if you want to support newer Intel chips you will probably end up writing some code. There isn't a moving target. I really think this is just an attempt to try and smear Apple, but I also understand that Be doesn't have a huge staff either.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
It doesn't sound like Apple has done anything negative or said anytihng negative towards Be though. They are competitors. Just sour grapes on Be's part. Anyhow, they've ported to Intel and have a nice little cult following, what more could they honestly expect?
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
That sounds really silly. Look past the licensing issues. I think that is what the original troller was doing. What's more important that freedom?
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
How about this:
BEOS KICKS BUTT AT DIGITAL MEDIA
and how about this:
LINUXPPC DOESN'T
Questions?
I'm assuming the question you're asking is earnest...right now I use BeOS for web site creation/design. I do a *small* amount of audio work on it. The digital media programs will be there - starting with R4.5. There were a *ton* of missing codecs - making video work unusable. This will change with R4.5. The lack of a useful group of codecs forced many companies to hold off on their products. That wait will be over as of next week.
When I work with video, I want to do so without the overhead of NT or MacOS. When I mix 30 tracks of audio, I want to do it real-time with a system that responds to my requests immediately. I don't want to have to reset NT every 30 minutes, then wait 5 minutes for it to come up, then start the next cycle. I want my OS fast and stable. BeOS is the only thing that can provide that.
If you're looking for PhotoShop, Premiere, or other established programs, stick with NT or MacOS. I prefer to live life a bit on the edge (as do most Linux users) and there are a few programs out there that fill my video/audio needs. A current investment in Be is an investment in the future.
Woah! I re-read your post again and again. No one said anything about real-time. How did "very low software latency" translate into "real-time"?
Actually, Jobs was not the decision maker at the time. Gilbert Amelio (late of National Semiconductor) was the man who chose NeXT over Be, bringing on Mr. Jobs as an "advisor", who then engineered an ouster to get Amelio out of the drivers seat, so that Mr. Jobs could become the interim CEO for large values of interim. (Gosh, I so plagiarized that joke, but I liked it so much!)
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Yea.....what he said!!!
We're getting way off topic here, but I'll answer anyway, since it's a legitimate question.
There is a new, but supposedly fairly decent open source IDE called Code Crusader (obviously playing on the name of the commercial Code Warrior, which incidentally has just been ported to Linux). If you're just looking for a graphical debugger, you might want to try DDD, which works as a friendly and powerful frontend to traditional command-line debuggers like gdb and dbx (nicely hiding their complexity). I don't know the URL's to either of these offhand, but you can find them via the AppIndex at Freshmeat.
I'm a command-line guy myself on my own time, but I do use Microsoft's IDE at work and understand that some folks work better that way.
Div.
But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
Was Firefrorefiddle, the Fiend of the Fell.
I am slowly building a second box to install BeOS on - I'd love to play with this wonderful looking thing.
-- Oh Well
i don't know Be inc very well but it seems to me that they only have one big productL BeOS and that this product is still in the development phase. During this phase they need some money, so they sell beta versions for cheap.
As much I don't like when a multi-billion company try to get the last $ out of me by selling their beta versions, as much this is not the same for a small company that need some funding and don't have big pockets.
BTW Be is still beta right? (or i've missed something maybe) so it is better to make incompability in the Beta version than between the 1.0 version and the subsequent version. isn't that the point to make beta versions??
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
this were the Japanese that attacked Pearl harbour, not the German.
the German didn't even fight in the pacific area (nothing I know about of at least).
BTW that is what drove the USA in the WW2 so it wasn't such a good move for the Japanese
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Oups... I didn't knew this was a quote and apologise
I haven't seen Stripes but would be very happy to watch it if you explain me how to receive Network TV in France (remember,not every
Duh, I hope I have enough sense of humor to laugh at things I understand but I would prefer to download the LinHumor pack 2.3.x because this is a development package that feature some cool stuff in it
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
I, for one, have downloaded. I paid for the boxed set once upon a time, but do not feel like paying for each new version.
Keep in mind the large number of college students in the linux world with sweet net connections. I don't think it's ever taken me more than an hour to download a complete install, whether it was RedHat, Slack, Debian, or even FreeBSD.
>"BeOS rules... Hell, anything that's not Microsoft rules (except maybe for MacOS and Plan 9)"
:-)
Let's not start prasing every new OS, simply because it isn't developed by Microsoft. The OS has to be able to stand on its own, NOT simply because it's a "non" Microsoft product. Though, you did add the MacOS and Plan 9 bit...(never used Plan 9, but my experience with MacOS, is, well, not pleasant). I've never used BeOS, so I can't say whether it's good or not. I just am afraid to see every new OS being hailed as the greatest thing, simply because they are not M$..
You know, Jolt doesn't seem like such a bad idea right now...maybe two, or three (heh,heh,heh)
The problem is that the "reasons" you gave were so lame that nobody cared to correct you.
The binary incompatibility between R3 and R4 was because of purely technical reasons : ELF just sucks less than PE.
By the way, in case you didn't notice, binary compatibility is broken every few Linux kernel releases. Yes, it matters to a lot of people. No, having the source available doesn't make their life a lot easier.
Your the man.
Linux turns me off for one reason the additude of the majority of it users (that I've met). Same with Mac users some of them (more like 1/2 - iMac users) are just as bad.
IBM is releasing a new version of OS/2 mainly bug fixes but it has new features too. IBM hasn't given up on it.
Need coffee bad...can't stand it anymore...
NEEED COOOOFFFFEEEEEE !!!!
or jolt!
BeOS rules... Hell, anything that's not Microsoft rules (except maybe for MacOS and Plan 9)
"Code free or die!"
"Code free or die!"
Frankly, the only use I see for a word processor is to view to copious amount of Word attachments I get in email. If the Be word processor doesn't read Word files (not sure if it does or not), then its pretty much useless to me. Why do we need yet another proprietary word processor format????
WYSIWYG word processors are lame compared to LaTeX anyway. Anyone who tries to write a long (50+ pages) technical document in WYSIWYG soon relaizes why TeX works how it does.
BeOS seems to be repeating the mistakes of its predecessors - closed, binary-only, proprietary.
I really don't see anything compelling there.
BeOS is not different - its the same schtick MS and Apple have run for years, just with some more spit and polish:
Closed, binary-only, proprietary.
What's new about that?
Or Emacs? That knife cuts both ways hombre.
There's a load of open source code out there that closed-sourced solutions haven't been able to approach. Look around.
Just one question. Why should one want to use BeOS instead of NT or MacOS for digital media, given the wide lacking of programs for such a platform?
They refuse to hack g3 support for the following official and unofficial reasons:
-they said that unless they get technical specs from apple they won't add support because they think hacking support won't provide as much quality
-intel gave them lots of money and a bunch of nice engineers to help them. apple gave them the cold shoulder and tried to kill them
-most mac users aren't even aware that they even have a choice of OS's
---Got Coffee?---
Be has stated that they don't want to compete with linux, they want to work with the linux community, but the hardline OSS advocates turn their backs every time. Funny isn't that a company which provides a lot of gnu tools as standard parts of its OS and wants to help its OS and Linux work VERY WELL together gets pushed away by the hardline linux advocates because the company isn't making an OSS product. With attitudes like that OSS will start collapsing because too many companies will find it in their best interests to work against OSS and try to crush it. Never underestimate the power of corporate america. Corporate america didn't get so rich and powerful because it say on its ass. All it will take is for Apple and M$ to crush any attempt at linux on the desktop, Sun to swoop in with a somewhat faster solaris for the servers and sgi, apple or be to come in with the multimedia/graphics OS. Just because it is free in no way guarantees it success, if it did then who the hell would use NT for a server instead of linux or freebsd?
---Got Coffee?---
the OS was built completely around multithreading which linux is not. The BeOS users that I have talked to say that they are happier with BeOS's api than linux because it is faster and cleaner and usually easier to write code for.
---Got Coffee?---
-it is easier to use and the interface is better designed than anything an OSS project has ever done
-I don't know about you, but with enlightenment and gnome, linux ran on my PII 450 as slowly as Win98. Everything worked perfectly except for the winmodem (don't laugh/flame)
-BeOS configures ITSELF whereas sometimes people have to spend hours or even days getting a decent config
-Many of us just LIKE it better. The mentality of a one OS world should have died off long ago. Shame on you for your fascist views of a one OS computer industry. Even torvalds said a while ago that he DOES NOT want linux to get more than 1/3 of total OS marketshare because he thinks it will end up no better than Winblows if it gets too much
---Got Coffee?---
I have Linux and BeOS on my machine. Of the two, the BeOS actually lets me get some work done for doing general purpose, graphics, hell even server type applications. Check out www.be.com/beware and see what is there, with a lot more coming down the pike this year. Even Apache 2 is being ported over.
I for one think that BeOS should never be open source, it would be letting all the good code out of the bag. The only reason why there is an open source Linux is because it tried copying UNIX, and is therefore not very innovative.
EverCode
So BeOS isn't open source and isn't free, who cares?
How many of you have actually DOWNLOADED and made disks to install Linux vs Buying (ie paying for) it? 5%? 8%? Its probably much less than that.
That is a silly arguement.
Not open source? Again, how many Linux users are actually spending their time hacking the kernal vs using somebody else's work?
Mmmm Hmmm, I thought so.
Really. Why don't we all just use the OS that we like and be happy? Why does someone have to be wrong and someone have to be right? It's apparent to me that we all have strong views about what OS works best for us. There's no point in trying to convince someone that another OS is better than the one that they have. Don't get me wrong, I love a good debate, but 200+ comments on something that isn't even on topic is a little absurd. This isn't going to change anything. Please, if someone has seriously considered trying the other OS because of the posts they read here, let me know. Until then, enjoy YOUR OS and have a productive day.
BeOS is totally cool. Stable, Fast, Responsive, and EASY TO INSTALL! It took 1 min to setup the install process, and that is it. It automaticly finds all your devices (if they are supported) and installs the apropriate drivers. the entire OS takes up minimal amounts of space, and is just a buity to look at. Most of the apps are free, and the ones that arn't are under 100 bucks. All sorts of Apps are being ported. (Netscape 5, Q3, Opera, etc) Just think, BeOS (FAST) and Q3! The people over at Be deserve some credit. Be Smart, Try be. Just Be.
-Cosmotic ÔÔ
Have you seen how quickly BeOS has progressed on Intel? This is their 2nd major release and they already have OpenGL optimized, are releasing drivers for lots of devices like the SB Live! and soon probably drivers to 3D cards, already have a good inferstructure for accelerated 3D and an awesome, consistance, fast API. You just can't do that in Open Source. Code quality is not garunteed, consistancy is not garunteed. A focused group can trim all the fat of an OS and make it fast and stable. Open Source projects don't have that and unless they are well done, they end up being bloated like KDE and GNOME.
Open Source has its place, but for speed, efficiency and consistancy, it does not hold a candle to a well managed closed source project. (Unfortunatly most aren't)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Well, I'm bored too and could've had the first post, but I didn't really have anything to say about BeOS, so I restrained myself. Heck, I don't even know why anybody bothers! People can sort by score or reverse order, after all. I sort so the newest is first, so I'm more likely to see your post if you are the last person--not the first. Maybe that should be set as default, perhaps this sort of thing would be less likely.
ufdraco
Interesting thought. I'd like to think it wouldn't happen, but who knows? Ok, in that case, make sorting by score default. Then people would (*gasp!*) have to try their darnedest to write awesome posts in an effort to have the highest score! :-)
ufdraco