I forgot to mention one (well probably more, if you count the Oddysey 2, that Astrocade module, and some really obscure stuff): Yaroze.
I played around with Yaroze on the original PS1. It was indeed cool.
But (there's always a but)... it really wasn't good for much of anything beyond making little demo's or really simple games. I can't blame Sony: you can't expect to buy a *real* developers kit for the price of Yaroze.
The sad thing is that I like the Yaroze concept *more* than PS2 Linux, because at least it was a tool directly concentrated on one thing: programming. This PS2 Linux is all over the map when you think about running other Linux apps.
I don't know how useful having a whole OS on the console would be unless you're a grandma who only needs a PC for occasional e-mailing.... and how many grandma's have their own PS2's?
Don't get me wrong, this is a really cool 'toy'. That's no flame to Linux, just what I expect from experience:
Does anyone remember the Coleco Adam module?
Do you remember the Intellivision ECS module?
Do you remember the Atari 2600 Piggyback module?
Remember Atari 2600 BASIC?
I do... and trust me: They were all cool 'toys'. I sincerely doubt that much anything useful can be done with this kit, as long as the stipulation remains that you must have the kit to run anything created with it.
I really like SDL. I've submitted bug fixes for mouse and sound issues in the past, and Sam always responded quickly and enthusiastically. SDL really makes 2D programming easy. We'll have to see how good of an OpenGL implementation the kit has before we can venture out of the 2D world. At least Atani or I can now port Bliss32 to it.:)
I do like the 40GB HD though - beats the hell out of the 8GB one in my X-Box. Can I start hoping against hope that MS lets us do the same thing with our X-Box's... er... legally?:)
If any kids are out there, thinking about getting into programming via this module, I would warn you off that path. This is just Linux for the PS2 - it's not a 'Games Creation Kit'. I can't see how it would be any easier to learn programming with this kit than on a real PC.
I'm a PC guy who's never owned an Apple, and I'm definitely not a minor (I'm 32), but I had to send them some feedback on this.
I've included what I sent below, minus all the cursing (just kidding). Everyone else here who has the time, please send Apple something similar (be polite if you really want to help Finlay). I really hate to see this happen to a seemingly helpful, bright kid.
-----------
I just read about Finlay Dobbie on slashdot.org. I then read his complete story on his personal website.
If what I read is correct and truthful, Apple has done a great disservice both to its users and itself. The fact that no alternative was given to this bright kid who had already made meaningful contributions to the Darwin project is shameful.
I guess Apple's next move will be to disallow the sell of software to those under 18, since they can't be bound by the EULAs?
By way of this feedback, I *beg* of you to forward this to someone in a position to do the following:
A) Reprimand the person responsible for cancelling Finlays account without any written notice (even after the fact).
B) Talk to the company lawyers and find out if there is a viable solution (parent co-sign, legal change of status to adult, etc.) that would allow Finlay to contribute to the project.
In his writing, Finlay seems incredibly mature about this whole ugly incident. If someone were to approach him with a solution, I'm sure he would regain his faith in your company. An apologetic letter to him about the SNAFU would also do much to redeem Apple in the public eye (I'm *sure* some Apple-hating, PC using, reporter is going to put this kid on TV when they hear the story).
I'm not Apple's biggest cheerleader, but I really enjoy having you guys around even if it's only to keep MS & the PC world on their toes. Please make right what is wrong.
>> Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that people who play Everquest are terminally gay, almost as bad as goths.
Great comeback. You think that up all by yourself?
Again, if you had a clue, you would actually *read* something before trying to throw out insults. In this case, you would have found that I *don't* play EverQuest.
I remember many many years ago, when I was buying my first CD recorder, Pinnacle Micro had just come out with the double-speed RCD-1000.
Back then, systems were meager and expensive. I wanted to connect it to a PS/2 (yeah, one of those boat anchors) via the Adaptec microchannel SCSI card.
Suspicious that the setup might not work, I spoke directly with one of PM's salemen. They were eager to talk, cause the drives were $2000 at the time and blank disks ran $25 from them and about half that from other vendors).
The salesman not only told me that the Adaptec SCSI card was certified to work with the drive, but offered to sell it to me as part of the bundle (with 100% markup on the cost of the card - $400).
After a month of troubleshooting, the umpteenth tech I spoke to on their support line (not an 800 number, and always a 45 to 60 minute wait on hold before they got to my call) told me that "It's the SCSI card - that particular one won't work with the drive". Then, he did some 'research' and told me of a BusLogic microchannel card that would work.
So I bought the BusLogic card.
The thing was still a $2000 coaster making toaster.
So, over the course of 12 more tech support calls (each with an hour on hold), I finally get escalated up to their head techie, who informs me "That drive doesn't work with any microchannel SCSI card! I don't know where you got the idea it would...." I gave him the names of the salesman who specified the Adaptec card and the tech who specified the BusLogic.
I finally got the drive working by saving up for many months and buying another (non-microchannel) system ($2500+ more down the drain) to use with the RCD-1000.
8 months later, the RCD-1000 burnt itself up, and PM wanted to charge me $460 to fix it. They said it was *just* out of warranty. Nevermind the months and months of downtime I had because they had outright lied to me.
THAT is the reason I will never, ever, again buy or recommend any of their products.
Is it just me, or do you guys think that this thing would have been 500% better if they had turned the keyboard sideways... so that it could have been made large enough for human hands?
Okay, okay... Any programmer in their right mind *knows* that the browser isn't an absolute, integral, part of the OS. Of course, MS is doing everything they can to 'fix' this - through actions like the change in direction of their help files from the old RTF-based nightmare.
But, what has Microsoft gained? Millions and Millions of dollars in browser revenue? Put down the crack-pipe.
It seems to me that all they've done is secure their position against other OS's. As I recall Netscape wasn't free when all this first started (if you were honest). I would have thought it natural that Apple or someone else would have integrated the browser with the OS and used it as a leverage point against Microsoft. Microsoft successfully countered any attack along these lines ahead of time without paying Netscape an arm and a leg to do it.
I will bet my left testicle that had MS reached a licensing agreement with Netscape that right now Netscape would be swearing up and down on their mothers graves that browser integration into an OS is a 'great thing for the user'.
Download a Linux distro and what do you find? A web browser is included. Users obviously *want* web browsers, and they like them to be included. Web browsers today are as integral a tool as notepad or calc... I'd hate if they weren't included because "they're not core to the OS" or "they stifle competition in the Hello World/Notepad programming arena".
I like where the Windows help system is headed. I like easy access to online updates. I like the possibilities here. And, if such browser-enabled services are going to be basic parts of the OS I would expect *some* kind of browser to be included so that I don't have to install extra software just to unlock the full power of the OS.
I don't just want the browser integrated in Windows. I want it integrated in *all* OS's.
Okay, I'm done with my pro-MS mini-rant. *Now* you can flame me for my moronic opinion. Maybe I'm the *only* guy who likes IE. I'm a freak like that.
Jeez, with all this talk about 'remarkable programming skill' and 'squinting over thousands of lines of numeric coding', it's obvious to me that none of these people have ever actually used the code-finding tools.
If Interract has the same level of tools on todays platforms as they did on yesterday's (PS One and Saturn), then this is a piece of cake. Any 8 year old could make cheat codes with these tools and 30 minutes of instruction.
I used to own one of the Datel parallel port boards. Basically, all you had to do was press a button on the connected computer to dump the contents of the console's RAM, then you get your guy killed in the game, then dump the memory again to determine which numbers changed. You keep doing that over and over a half dozen times to narrow it down and *voila* you've found the memory location that controls the number of lives. Just stick a 0xFF in that and you're done. The 'code' was simply a memory location and the value to poke (there were extended codes that would do the pokes conditionally too, but it was just as simple).
Making codes wasn't hard, it was just hard to get the game home quick enough that you were the first one to post the code to Datel's and Interract's sites (Yeah, their in house codefinders didn't do it all - I found the first Crash Bandicoot codes for them!).
I find it hard to believe that their tools make it anything but easier to find codes today.
Slashdot Mirror
No, it wouldn't work. They've already said that you won't be able to boot a PS2 game after Linux is loaded without completely resetting the console.
It should have been: Bliss32.
Sorry about that!
I forgot to mention one (well probably more, if you count the Oddysey 2, that Astrocade module, and some really obscure stuff): Yaroze.
I played around with Yaroze on the original PS1. It was indeed cool.
But (there's always a but)... it really wasn't good for much of anything beyond making little demo's or really simple games. I can't blame Sony: you can't expect to buy a *real* developers kit for the price of Yaroze.
The sad thing is that I like the Yaroze concept *more* than PS2 Linux, because at least it was a tool directly concentrated on one thing: programming. This PS2 Linux is all over the map when you think about running other Linux apps.
I don't know how useful having a whole OS on the console would be unless you're a grandma who only needs a PC for occasional e-mailing.... and how many grandma's have their own PS2's?
Maybe it's just me...
Does anyone remember the Coleco Adam module?
Do you remember the Intellivision ECS module?
Do you remember the Atari 2600 Piggyback module?
Remember Atari 2600 BASIC?
I do... and trust me: They were all cool 'toys'. I sincerely doubt that much anything useful can be done with this kit, as long as the stipulation remains that you must have the kit to run anything created with it.
I really like SDL. I've submitted bug fixes for mouse and sound issues in the past, and Sam always responded quickly and enthusiastically. SDL really makes 2D programming easy. We'll have to see how good of an OpenGL implementation the kit has before we can venture out of the 2D world. At least Atani or I can now port Bliss32 to it. :)
I do like the 40GB HD though - beats the hell out of the 8GB one in my X-Box. Can I start hoping against hope that MS lets us do the same thing with our X-Box's... er... legally? :)
If any kids are out there, thinking about getting into programming via this module, I would warn you off that path. This is just Linux for the PS2 - it's not a 'Games Creation Kit'. I can't see how it would be any easier to learn programming with this kit than on a real PC.
-J
I'm a PC guy who's never owned an Apple, and I'm definitely not a minor (I'm 32), but I had to send them some feedback on this.
I've included what I sent below, minus all the cursing (just kidding). Everyone else here who has the time, please send Apple something similar (be polite if you really want to help Finlay). I really hate to see this happen to a seemingly helpful, bright kid.
-----------
I just read about Finlay Dobbie on slashdot.org. I then read his complete story on his personal website.
If what I read is correct and truthful, Apple has done a great disservice both to its users and itself. The fact that no alternative was given to this bright kid who had already made meaningful contributions to the Darwin project is shameful.
I guess Apple's next move will be to disallow the sell of software to those under 18, since they can't be bound by the EULAs?
By way of this feedback, I *beg* of you to forward this to someone in a position to do the following:
A) Reprimand the person responsible for cancelling Finlays account without any written notice (even after the fact).
B) Talk to the company lawyers and find out if there is a viable solution (parent co-sign, legal change of status to adult, etc.) that would allow Finlay to contribute to the project.
In his writing, Finlay seems incredibly mature about this whole ugly incident. If someone were to approach him with a solution, I'm sure he would regain his faith in your company. An apologetic letter to him about the SNAFU would also do much to redeem Apple in the public eye (I'm *sure* some Apple-hating, PC using, reporter is going to put this kid on TV when they hear the story).
I'm not Apple's biggest cheerleader, but I really enjoy having you guys around even if it's only to keep MS & the PC world on their toes. Please make right what is wrong.
Sincerely,
>> Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that people who play Everquest are terminally gay, almost as bad as goths.
Great comeback. You think that up all by yourself?
Again, if you had a clue, you would actually *read* something before trying to throw out insults. In this case, you would have found that I *don't* play EverQuest.
Anonymous Coward indeed.
I remember many many years ago, when I was buying my first CD recorder, Pinnacle Micro had just come out with the double-speed RCD-1000.
Back then, systems were meager and expensive. I wanted to connect it to a PS/2 (yeah, one of those boat anchors) via the Adaptec microchannel SCSI card.
Suspicious that the setup might not work, I spoke directly with one of PM's salemen. They were eager to talk, cause the drives were $2000 at the time and blank disks ran $25 from them and about half that from other vendors).
The salesman not only told me that the Adaptec SCSI card was certified to work with the drive, but offered to sell it to me as part of the bundle (with 100% markup on the cost of the card - $400).
After a month of troubleshooting, the umpteenth tech I spoke to on their support line (not an 800 number, and always a 45 to 60 minute wait on hold before they got to my call) told me that "It's the SCSI card - that particular one won't work with the drive". Then, he did some 'research' and told me of a BusLogic microchannel card that would work.
So I bought the BusLogic card.
The thing was still a $2000 coaster making toaster.
So, over the course of 12 more tech support calls (each with an hour on hold), I finally get escalated up to their head techie, who informs me "That drive doesn't work with any microchannel SCSI card! I don't know where you got the idea it would...." I gave him the names of the salesman who specified the Adaptec card and the tech who specified the BusLogic.
I finally got the drive working by saving up for many months and buying another (non-microchannel) system ($2500+ more down the drain) to use with the RCD-1000.
8 months later, the RCD-1000 burnt itself up, and PM wanted to charge me $460 to fix it. They said it was *just* out of warranty. Nevermind the months and months of downtime I had because they had outright lied to me.
THAT is the reason I will never, ever, again buy or recommend any of their products.
No one mentioned Atari. Get a clue.
Is it just me, or do you guys think that this thing would have been 500% better if they had turned the keyboard sideways... so that it could have been made large enough for human hands?
-Evil
You're correct. And that's my final answer.
-3vi1
Damn... I'd like to buy a paragraph for $400, Alex.
Sorry - my first post. I didn't notice the HTML format was selected.
Okay, okay... Any programmer in their right mind *knows* that the browser isn't an absolute, integral, part of the OS. Of course, MS is doing everything they can to 'fix' this - through actions like the change in direction of their help files from the old RTF-based nightmare. But, what has Microsoft gained? Millions and Millions of dollars in browser revenue? Put down the crack-pipe. It seems to me that all they've done is secure their position against other OS's. As I recall Netscape wasn't free when all this first started (if you were honest). I would have thought it natural that Apple or someone else would have integrated the browser with the OS and used it as a leverage point against Microsoft. Microsoft successfully countered any attack along these lines ahead of time without paying Netscape an arm and a leg to do it. I will bet my left testicle that had MS reached a licensing agreement with Netscape that right now Netscape would be swearing up and down on their mothers graves that browser integration into an OS is a 'great thing for the user'. Download a Linux distro and what do you find? A web browser is included. Users obviously *want* web browsers, and they like them to be included. Web browsers today are as integral a tool as notepad or calc... I'd hate if they weren't included because "they're not core to the OS" or "they stifle competition in the Hello World/Notepad programming arena". I like where the Windows help system is headed. I like easy access to online updates. I like the possibilities here. And, if such browser-enabled services are going to be basic parts of the OS I would expect *some* kind of browser to be included so that I don't have to install extra software just to unlock the full power of the OS. I don't just want the browser integrated in Windows. I want it integrated in *all* OS's. Okay, I'm done with my pro-MS mini-rant. *Now* you can flame me for my moronic opinion. Maybe I'm the *only* guy who likes IE. I'm a freak like that.
Jeez, with all this talk about 'remarkable programming skill' and 'squinting over thousands of lines of numeric coding', it's obvious to me that none of these people have ever actually used the code-finding tools. If Interract has the same level of tools on todays platforms as they did on yesterday's (PS One and Saturn), then this is a piece of cake. Any 8 year old could make cheat codes with these tools and 30 minutes of instruction. I used to own one of the Datel parallel port boards. Basically, all you had to do was press a button on the connected computer to dump the contents of the console's RAM, then you get your guy killed in the game, then dump the memory again to determine which numbers changed. You keep doing that over and over a half dozen times to narrow it down and *voila* you've found the memory location that controls the number of lives. Just stick a 0xFF in that and you're done. The 'code' was simply a memory location and the value to poke (there were extended codes that would do the pokes conditionally too, but it was just as simple). Making codes wasn't hard, it was just hard to get the game home quick enough that you were the first one to post the code to Datel's and Interract's sites (Yeah, their in house codefinders didn't do it all - I found the first Crash Bandicoot codes for them!). I find it hard to believe that their tools make it anything but easier to find codes today.